@@lIlIllIIlIlIIlIlIll Interesting that I didn't think of it that way. In my mind I made more of distinction between musicians and songwriters. But yeah I think the way you split it makes more sense!
@Lolzosaurus nonon ur right too like there's a distinct difference between an orchestral musician and any songwriting both are fine also this dude should've joined a fusion jazz band to use these inversions n such
This is a case of that bell curve meme. The ‘bad’ musician will play the simple D chord because that’s all he knows, the intermediate will play the inversion just because he knows it, and the truly good musician will play the simple D because he knows that is what’s appropriate.
@@proh3649 it’s not about what it is is not. The question is if you are able to apply it, and you can. The beginner has less skills to with and more confidence, sometimes. The intermediate understands how advanced you can be and try to overcompensate. The advanced has a lot of knowledge and can be okay with playing the normal D, doesn’t have to prove that he’s great. This shows up as the pro players often show less confidence than beginners. That’s one application of the effect.
@@Threghyou don’t know what you don’t know? i remember that This American Life segment, isn’t it actually unsubstantiated, however appealing? rather, it definitely exists as one cause of the phenomena, but there are many other factors that determine how well any given person feels they are or are not doing something?
The difference between an advanced guitarist and an advanced musician. A good muscican doesn't play the inappropriate voicing just because they know it
@@igorspie8241as dissonant and abrasive as nin can be you will find that theres a lot of intellegent choices behind it and it doesn't overcomplicate for the sake of being complex which is what I think the comment is saying
Exactly, being technically skillful doesn't mean you're a good musician. As a music teacher I see a lot of students, that do not have the time to develop technical skills in school, but shows a lot of musicality and feeling (having a great musical ear).
@@Trubbas That was not celebrated it in my music school. To be able to have musicality and feeling (musical ear) :( Being diligent was held to a higher standard
@@Atlas65 Diligence isn't a bad thing, but it takes much more time than what you got in (Swedish) regular middle high? (13-16yo) musical classes which is 80hrs over 3 years - but it has to cover Singning/playing an instrument/compositions and all nonsens around music like knowledge of genres - and the effect and meaning music has in society etc. You also have a mix of students who can't keep a Pulse if their life depended on it (not literary, but yes, literary) and quite skillfull students that goes to musical school as well, to deal with. So as a teacher I feel I'm compelled to grade the students musicality rather than skill - it's more of a 'blunt' tool but amongst all students you can easily pick out those who are suitable for higher musical studies and those who would maybe be allowed to sing along to 'Happy Birthday'.
@@Trubbasexactly a lot of player stories I've heard where for instance like Phil lynott had just picked up the bass months before forming thin lizzy wtf ??😂😂 the guy was a master at singing and playing. Or great bands that said we didn't know anything so we just played fast ..meanwhile I've been playing for 25yrs and just starting to be proficient at sound, tuning and technique😂😂
Even though you're joking, this is a bit true. Highly-intelligent individuals with high creativity actually score lower on IQ tests because they see so many possible answers.
Exactly. The other guys are getting his jobs because he's on such a different level that they just can't understand his genius, man. lmfao. What a sad video.
This is because being a “good musician” isn’t just about skill and technique. It’s about being able to play stylistically/tastefully and know how to adapt. I know too many guitarists who don’t play tastefully because they just want to show off, even when it’s entirely tasteless and inappropriate. Then they can’t take criticism about it, and they take it personally (This has happened to me with 4 different guitarists who “know everything”)
This is why a lot of very technically skilled musicians are just boring. They'd rather stroke their own egos than create something that's actually pleasing to hear.
@@richardwarren71- LOL, as someone who’s entire life’s purpose is to get country/Americana and heavy metal to have a beautiful twangy-soundin’, mosh-pit-lovin’ love-child.. I’d, definitely, struggle with knowing which cowboy chords would be most appropriate.
@@XOChristianaNicole hell yeah the best thing I can think of is the ending solo of the song. "The great southern Trendkill" it's go such a heavy and southern twang to it
As a bassist, I feel this 100%. I heard a great quote from another bassist - he said his teacher told him “just because you CAN play it doesn’t mean you SHOULD.”
@@elmarkel3159 fine, how about “As a multi-instrumentalist of multiple decades to include bass, guitar, and brass instruments with knowledge and experience in writing, playing and producing many genres at pro or working musician levels….” Any better? Ever been thrilled by a guy playing a slap bass solo every song for the entirety of the song in a changing polyrhythm for the entire set? Sometimes, less is more in my experience.
I think you got your wording confused, what you talk about is not a great musician, it’s a great instrument player. A great musician knows when something is appropriate in the context of the song. Someone who knows the dictionary word for word is not necessarily a good author, knowing amazing words can tempt an author into putting them into their works when not appropriate which would make for a worse read, not knowing the complicated vocabulary is not the solution, understanding the context of the piece is the solution. I think what you described in this video is a perfect example of the intermediate/ early advanced player, they know the licks and they are just wanting to play them, show the world what they can do. Same thing can be said for production, you can learn everything there is to know to make a section sound big, full and powerful, but the best way to make a section powerful is the make the section before it subtle. A film maker learns how to make incredible cgi monsters for his horror films, but he forgets that the scariest thing is the human imagination and the fear of the unknown, the scariest films are often those that tease the idea of something bad, not necessarily one that shows something bad. I can come up with loads of examples, but the point to be made is that just because a tool belt contains a hammer doesn’t mean that you’re going to use it to install glass. If you do the mistake wasn’t having a hammer in your tool belt, it was using it.
So true. I think this is the biggest difference between a good and great musician for me- the understanding that no matter how much you can technically play playing solid basics will always come first. Chord progression trumps shredding, good melody with good voice leading trumps a billion notes, good music production trumps excellent guitar/ bass playing. I think part of the reason musics like this guy above exist is a kind of informed arrogance- we’re told our whole musical lives that “simple” pop is basic and the musicians who make it are uninformed and just lacking in skill. After getting into the pop world a bit myself I see how deeply untrue this is. I’ve met so many music producers who are by far the most skilled musicians (both players and composers) in a room of music professionals- I’ve met so many “genius” guitar players that it’s not even funny, and the best of the best of them play the simple shit but with intention. I think the scary thing is as we get better and better we start to realize the people we’d always looked down on as the lowest of the musical world are actually the highest, and we’re so much worse than them that we ha to claw to catch up. For a lot of us, who are just instrumentalists and not song crafters, this is as far as we’ll ever go.
@@joshuamiddlebrooks3981 definitely a lot of the pop music out there is not the basics but absolute perfection of the basics. I had a project with a mate of mine just after we both left college to write an album of essentially pop songs and see how far we could take them, we realised very quickly that it was far easier said than done. The amount of times we would write something and it was always too happy and cheesy or just not pop, it's a very thin line you have to tread to make great pop music and the ability to be creative within those boundaries is a crazy skill, but you get these people who can do it over and over and over again. I hugely respect the crazy musicians out there, the dream theatres and such, but I respect the pop guys more.
In other words this guy isn't as great a musician as he thinks he is 😂 Your writing example makes perfect sense, I've seen so many poor writers use hard obscure words in order to look smart, but they fail to recognize how annoying they are.
They absolutely do not. Playing just a pentatonic scale (which is what all non theory players do) does not give them more creativity or feel. They all sound exactly the same with some very few exceptions. It's like the people that say rich people don't go to college. Yeah some can make it without a degree but most cant
@@charlesmartiniii1405 Why does everyone talk about note choice like it’s the only thing that matters? People have been making WILDLY different music out of the pentatonic scale forever - talk about dynamics, use of space, emotion, tone, technique, just to name a few things. I think it’s very short sighted to focus soooo much on notes when it’s literally like 1/12th of what makes a piece of music sound the way it does. There is other shit going on than what scale is being used
Very true, that's why I prefer solos with less technical notes and more memorable melodies. A legendary guitarist will find the balance between complexity and simplicity.
Or some of them will just say “fuck simplicity” (like Ritchie Blackmore) and just become an absolute Guitar God. If you want an example of how legendary the philosophy of “more is more”, then just listen to Light in the Black by Rainbow. That is where more… is in fact more.
Theres also the fact that it takes a certain level of expertise to play very simple things correctly and with nuance. A beginner drummer thinks they can play a michael jackson song pretty bang on, but it still sounds far better when an expert plays it. An intermediate drummer on the otherhand is likely to overplay.
If you know every voicing for D major you are going to use whatever voicing fits the song. That's like saying "Im a car mechanic with too many tools, and when I have to fix something I get confused by how many tools I have"
The best musicians didn’t have classical training or school. The greatest guitarists of all time learned themselves. If playing an instrument is all about self expression, then why would you listen to someone else trying to tell you on how you should express yourself?
Ridiculous. You don't need to be educated to play well, but acting as though it puts you at a disadvantage is hogwash. Rock guitar is not the only kind of music on earth.
I'm inclined to disagree with you. Listen to Spanish Classical Music. The guitarists (like many classical musicians) arrest often overlooked because they weren't composers, but to say that classical training didn't birth some of the best guitarists on the face of the planet is just wrong.
You'll never learn anything about guitar, music, or theory that makes you worse at playing. Not having formal training and "playing by ear" is valid, I played that way for many years. I really took off when I learned some basic theory though. Once I learned how chords relate to one another, how scales and chord scales work, and how to understand what is happening in a song theoretically, I achieved freedom to play whatever I want, and can almost play whatever I think.
One word: "Context." In other words: "Do what's needed for the song." By all means, everyone should play at a high level, HOWEVER, they should understand context to an even higher level than their playing.
Honestly he’s right. Once I went to school for it I stopped writing riffs. I’ve only recently forced myself to stop overthinking everything and just play what sounds good
Yeah but I feel like that doesn’t exist as much as you might think, in the niche categories and genres maybe but, just because you know how to incorporate tritone substitution into a song doesn’t mean you will, most great musicians just hear the music in their head and plays what fits, when someone presents an idea most of the options go away and you head in the direction that sounds the best not the one that is complicated on paper. Most studio musicians on most records have a vast amount of knowledge in music and their instrument but they play Taylor swift songs, the difference is they play it perfectly with 0 nonsense. Even when they get creative freedom they do what’s best for the song.
imo "jazz" chords don't exist its just false complexity or anything slightly outside realm of positions ppl are used to lol this benchod is annoying as hell
A good belt will impress me far more than the best vocal run in the world. Mariah Carey is a prime example of this over the top up her own arse kind of singing. Whitney Houston on the other hand knew what to sing and when
I agree with this but also there are so many musicians who can't sing that well or play anything complex but are still incredibly passionate and can write great songs.
I personally find that the more complicated a song sounds the more lifeless and mechanical it feels. I can appreciate complexity and the skill involved but I honestly am just as, if not more, excited and entertained by 2 chords and raw honestly.
Truth. I constantly said I was better before I knew what I was doing. Better songwriter then as well. If I could make something that sounded good, that was good enough. The last song I wrote before retiring was saved by a musician far less experienced than me. She said, "Why don't you play it this way?" and took out all my metaphorical bells and whistles. Tight three minutes that got the tone of my lyrics perfectly.
You're confusing musicianship with technical proficiency. They latter CAN boost the former, but it can also get in the way if you focus too much on developing it. That's not an excuse to say you have a disadvantage. You've stocked a huge toolbox, now you need to work on knowing which tool is right for which job.
I think a big part is that people neglect really learning rhythm guitar. They learn beginner rhythm guitar and move on to solos. 99% of all guitar is defined by what the rhythm guitar is doing and there are so many different ways to approach it depending on the genre and style of music. Like the rhythm guitar in a Green Day song is totally different from a Bee Gees song. A Johnny Cash song is totally different from a Prince song. And the subtleties of those various styles can spell the difference between an amazing cover song and that really boring bar chord version everyone does when they've only been playing a couple years.
This is true. Nowadays I’ll improvise and think about how much more melodic and thought out my playing was back when I just knew the pentatonic and a couple of blues licks.
It’s really as simple as leaving enough space for other instruments to blend in. Giant voicings that add a bunch of extra tension and take up all the sonic space need to be used for a reason. Each note added has an effect on the feeling of the chord and how it relates to everything else. I used to always use the most complex chords I could think of, and it has a surprisingly sterile effect. Makes the music sound empty when done without purpose. Simpler voicings also leave more open to the listener’s own ear. Sometimes it’s like you hear overtones coming out of simple chords that add imaginary extensions. Makes it more interactive.
it's kinda like when you're playing a video game and you want to pull off a combo so badly that you end up being shit at the game just to nail that combo since you know how to do it
He’s got a point. Same could be said about technical proficiency and precision. A lot of guitarists have mastered their craft to such a level of technical perfection that their playing sounds soulless, as if it were done by a computer.
Being skilled on your instrument is necessary for great musicianship, but musicianship is about having a holistic view of the work, and playing in service of it.
Its like trying to have a conversation with a girl who thinks she knows everything because she is in college...she isnt really listening to your point, just waiting for her turn to repeat slogans she just learned.
Felt this many times, also if you have a decent voice and can play basic chords, you win over pretty much anything I can play, that’s just the industry
Usually it’s more about experience rather than skills. Generally, the more experience you have, the less you actually play. Focusing on what the song needs, rather than impressing your fellow musicians with complex lines and voicings.
First time I’ve seen your content- interesting pov, and one I’ve thought of often. I’d say grass is greener , depending on the type of musician you’re talking to , if you ask them. I subbed.
It's just so fun to play music, and when you're experienced and you know a little bit of the razzmatazz, it can be hard to rein it in because it's just so enjoyable to play. But most people don't really want to hear that - other musicians might, but most listeners just don't want that complexity. It's a tough thing to walk sometimes.
Catherine Elgin draw some meaningful considerations regarding this question in a paper called "The epistemic efficacy of stupidity". Its an amazing epistemological discussion!
I learn that the hard way, I was hired by a band to replace the guitar player for a wedding, and in the rehearsal I played a lot of extensions and inversions, and the singer just said "WTF are you playing" hahahah then said "just chill, keep it simple, we are not here to impress anybody" since that day I felt my musical decisions improve so much, because I think a lot more about the context I'm playing, and when is apropiate to add some spice into the music
when you learned all the stuff you then have to use it in the right was, so very often we still play the easy stuff, but every now and then we throw in some other things to make it a bit more exciting :D
Imagine every absolute legendary iconic guitarist since the 60’s and think of all those riffs and progressions made up of power chords, and imagine if they were all like ‘nah I’ll make it real sick by playing it a galored way’ take 95% of the guitar worlds body of work and just throw it in the bin. Simplicity wins over and over again.
There is something called like the "ignorance advantage". If you are a good thinker, sometimes your lack of knowledge will let you come up wtih something that is a lot harder to imagine for someone with more knowledge on any given subject.
I've noticed that the more I develop my technique, the worse my playing sounds. I'm more impressed with old recordings I made in my first 3 months of playing than the stuff I play now several years later. It always feels like something is never right, too much thinking, too many notes, etc. The more I learn the more I nitpick and confuse myself. Sadly as of now I still have not figured out a good solution for this, so I'm just muddling through, becoming increasingly more skilled at playing decreasingly good music.
It's because the more you know the easier it is to complicate what you're playing. Sometimes it works at very well, other times not so much. Knowing when and where to add the complexity is key, and that comes from maturing as a musician. It's great to know as much as you can know... but you only get better by playing with other musicians. Often times when you play gigs it's best to keep it simple, and show off on a solo... knowing how to play a chord it multiple ways is absolutely fantastic, because it is playing that chord in different voicings... sometimes the simplest voicing works the best. Still cool to experiment with the different voicing, but in an impromptu jam keep it simple almost always works...
Knowing extended chords and inversions is one thing. Knowing how and when to use them is another.
Fr I agree 😮
Good guitarist and a bad musician
@@lIlIllIIlIlIIlIlIll Interesting that I didn't think of it that way. In my mind I made more of distinction between musicians and songwriters. But yeah I think the way you split it makes more sense!
@Lolzosaurus nonon ur right too like there's a distinct difference between an orchestral musician and any songwriting both are fine also this dude should've joined a fusion jazz band to use these inversions n such
Yeah, he's just whining about not getting gigs if you really think about it.
This is a case of that bell curve meme. The ‘bad’ musician will play the simple D chord because that’s all he knows, the intermediate will play the inversion just because he knows it, and the truly good musician will play the simple D because he knows that is what’s appropriate.
More like the dunning Kruger effect.
right!
@@Thregh thats not what the dunning kruger effect is
@@proh3649 it’s not about what it is is not. The question is if you are able to apply it, and you can. The beginner has less skills to with and more confidence, sometimes. The intermediate understands how advanced you can be and try to overcompensate. The advanced has a lot of knowledge and can be okay with playing the normal D, doesn’t have to prove that he’s great. This shows up as the pro players often show less confidence than beginners. That’s one application of the effect.
@@Threghyou don’t know what you don’t know? i remember that This American Life segment, isn’t it actually unsubstantiated, however appealing? rather, it definitely exists as one cause of the phenomena, but there are many other factors that determine how well any given person feels they are or are not doing something?
The difference between an advanced guitarist and an advanced musician. A good muscican doesn't play the inappropriate voicing just because they know it
Why not
Trent Reznor is a good musician and he alway does inappropriate stuff
@@igorspie8241as dissonant and abrasive as nin can be you will find that theres a lot of intellegent choices behind it and it doesn't overcomplicate for the sake of being complex which is what I think the comment is saying
@@jacksonelmore6227because good musician
Because nobody needs nor wants to hear it@@jacksonelmore6227
Being a good musician is knowing what’s appropriate for the song, not knowing a lot of chords
Exactly, being technically skillful doesn't mean you're a good musician. As a music teacher I see a lot of students, that do not have the time to develop technical skills in school, but shows a lot of musicality and feeling (having a great musical ear).
@@Trubbas That was not celebrated it in my music school. To be able to have musicality and feeling (musical ear) :( Being diligent was held to a higher standard
@@Atlas65 Diligence isn't a bad thing, but it takes much more time than what you got in (Swedish) regular middle high? (13-16yo) musical classes which is 80hrs over 3 years - but it has to cover Singning/playing an instrument/compositions and all nonsens around music like knowledge of genres - and the effect and meaning music has in society etc.
You also have a mix of students who can't keep a Pulse if their life depended on it (not literary, but yes, literary) and quite skillfull students that goes to musical school as well, to deal with.
So as a teacher I feel I'm compelled to grade the students musicality rather than skill - it's more of a 'blunt' tool but amongst all students you can easily pick out those who are suitable for higher musical studies and those who would maybe be allowed to sing along to 'Happy Birthday'.
I suck then !
@@Trubbasexactly a lot of player stories I've heard where for instance like Phil lynott had just picked up the bass months before forming thin lizzy wtf ??😂😂 the guy was a master at singing and playing. Or great bands that said we didn't know anything so we just played fast ..meanwhile I've been playing for 25yrs and just starting to be proficient at sound, tuning and technique😂😂
Sounds like "I have bad marks because I'm too smart"
Yes. Any excuse to try to take a shortcut and not fully understand it. How did “cliff notes” go for essay exams?
Worse musician here, if you told me to play D major I would've ended up playing a C chord because I have no clue
@chewielewis4002 Being a musician is about making music that connects with people. Not about knowing chords.This guy is on his high horse.
Even though you're joking, this is a bit true. Highly-intelligent individuals with high creativity actually score lower on IQ tests because they see so many possible answers.
Exactly. The other guys are getting his jobs because he's on such a different level that they just can't understand his genius, man. lmfao. What a sad video.
"I'm too good to get gigs, although I know exactly what I need to do in order to get a gig."
This is like a writer who can't get work because they keep using words like "he invoked" or "he ejaculated" instead of simply writing "he said."
Based
😂
Me, overthinking each option while the cashier stares at me:
Yeah this whole thing makes no sense. Sounds more like he's just bragging or showing off
"Keep It Simple, Stupid" are truly words to live by in those situations.
This is because being a “good musician” isn’t just about skill and technique. It’s about being able to play stylistically/tastefully and know how to adapt. I know too many guitarists who don’t play tastefully because they just want to show off, even when it’s entirely tasteless and inappropriate. Then they can’t take criticism about it, and they take it personally
(This has happened to me with 4 different guitarists who “know everything”)
Not to talk about all the great musicians out there, that simply can not write "good" songs.
This is why a lot of very technically skilled musicians are just boring. They'd rather stroke their own egos than create something that's actually pleasing to hear.
This is perfect pure guitar wankery. "I know it's inappropriate but I'm doing it anyways" lmao
Cowboy chords will always rule the universe
You mean like the cowboys from hell play?
@@richardwarren71- LOL, as someone who’s entire life’s purpose is to get country/Americana and heavy metal to have a beautiful twangy-soundin’, mosh-pit-lovin’ love-child..
I’d, definitely, struggle with knowing which cowboy chords would be most appropriate.
@@XOChristianaNicole hell yeah the best thing I can think of is the ending solo of the song. "The great southern Trendkill" it's go such a heavy and southern twang to it
You must be a huge fan of Bieber and Ed Sheeran
As a bassist, I feel this 100%. I heard a great quote from another bassist - he said his teacher told him “just because you CAN play it doesn’t mean you SHOULD.”
Why are you all commenting on his nonsense? He is talking shit just so he can flex.
"As a bassist- ", you lost me there.
@@RasT108at least he made a valid point while flexing.
@@elmarkel3159how does this not also apply to bassists, or any instrument for that matter?
@@elmarkel3159 fine, how about “As a multi-instrumentalist of multiple decades to include bass, guitar, and brass instruments with knowledge and experience in writing, playing and producing many genres at pro or working musician levels….” Any better?
Ever been thrilled by a guy playing a slap bass solo every song for the entirety of the song in a changing polyrhythm for the entire set?
Sometimes, less is more in my experience.
"When you're awesome like me, it's actually pretty tough."
Bro really turned this into an insane flex. Respect
I think you got your wording confused, what you talk about is not a great musician, it’s a great instrument player. A great musician knows when something is appropriate in the context of the song.
Someone who knows the dictionary word for word is not necessarily a good author, knowing amazing words can tempt an author into putting them into their works when not appropriate which would make for a worse read, not knowing the complicated vocabulary is not the solution, understanding the context of the piece is the solution.
I think what you described in this video is a perfect example of the intermediate/ early advanced player, they know the licks and they are just wanting to play them, show the world what they can do.
Same thing can be said for production, you can learn everything there is to know to make a section sound big, full and powerful, but the best way to make a section powerful is the make the section before it subtle.
A film maker learns how to make incredible cgi monsters for his horror films, but he forgets that the scariest thing is the human imagination and the fear of the unknown, the scariest films are often those that tease the idea of something bad, not necessarily one that shows something bad.
I can come up with loads of examples, but the point to be made is that just because a tool belt contains a hammer doesn’t mean that you’re going to use it to install glass. If you do the mistake wasn’t having a hammer in your tool belt, it was using it.
So true. I think this is the biggest difference between a good and great musician for me- the understanding that no matter how much you can technically play playing solid basics will always come first. Chord progression trumps shredding, good melody with good voice leading trumps a billion notes, good music production trumps excellent guitar/ bass playing. I think part of the reason musics like this guy above exist is a kind of informed arrogance- we’re told our whole musical lives that “simple” pop is basic and the musicians who make it are uninformed and just lacking in skill. After getting into the pop world a bit myself I see how deeply untrue this is. I’ve met so many music producers who are by far the most skilled musicians (both players and composers) in a room of music professionals- I’ve met so many “genius” guitar players that it’s not even funny, and the best of the best of them play the simple shit but with intention. I think the scary thing is as we get better and better we start to realize the people we’d always looked down on as the lowest of the musical world are actually the highest, and we’re so much worse than them that we ha to claw to catch up. For a lot of us, who are just instrumentalists and not song crafters, this is as far as we’ll ever go.
@@joshuamiddlebrooks3981 definitely a lot of the pop music out there is not the basics but absolute perfection of the basics.
I had a project with a mate of mine just after we both left college to write an album of essentially pop songs and see how far we could take them, we realised very quickly that it was far easier said than done. The amount of times we would write something and it was always too happy and cheesy or just not pop, it's a very thin line you have to tread to make great pop music and the ability to be creative within those boundaries is a crazy skill, but you get these people who can do it over and over and over again. I hugely respect the crazy musicians out there, the dream theatres and such, but I respect the pop guys more.
you said it
In other words this guy isn't as great a musician as he thinks he is 😂
Your writing example makes perfect sense, I've seen so many poor writers use hard obscure words in order to look smart, but they fail to recognize how annoying they are.
this
turns out i play instruments divinely
Rock and roll is the only music I can think of where the more you have been doing it, the worse you will get at it
Sounds more like “I want to be the soloist but they pay me to just be an accompaniment” problem
They do. Ppl that know zero theory are far more expressive on their instruments
Nah not necessarily. Some artists with smart minds can. But lets be real for the most part they’re limited.
They absolutely do not. Playing just a pentatonic scale (which is what all non theory players do) does not give them more creativity or feel. They all sound exactly the same with some very few exceptions. It's like the people that say rich people don't go to college. Yeah some can make it without a degree but most cant
@@charlesmartiniii1405
Why does everyone talk about note choice like it’s the only thing that matters? People have been making WILDLY different music out of the pentatonic scale forever - talk about dynamics, use of space, emotion, tone, technique, just to name a few things. I think it’s very short sighted to focus soooo much on notes when it’s literally like 1/12th of what makes a piece of music sound the way it does. There is other shit going on than what scale is being used
Sometimes I think worse musicians are more creative in a way,because they think less about it,and feel it more.
Very true, that's why I prefer solos with less technical notes and more memorable melodies. A legendary guitarist will find the balance between complexity and simplicity.
Or some of them will just say “fuck simplicity” (like Ritchie Blackmore) and just become an absolute Guitar God. If you want an example of how legendary the philosophy of “more is more”, then just listen to Light in the Black by Rainbow. That is where more… is in fact more.
If you think that is complex you need to expand your horizons@@WhoDaF0ok1sThatGuy
@@WhoDaF0ok1sThatGuyhell yeah
Theres also the fact that it takes a certain level of expertise to play very simple things correctly and with nuance.
A beginner drummer thinks they can play a michael jackson song pretty bang on, but it still sounds far better when an expert plays it. An intermediate drummer on the otherhand is likely to overplay.
I always call it Simplexity. Find the song's point of simplexity.
The fact that you know so many inversions, that's awesome. Being aware of who your playing with is everything.
I know how that feels man 😂 I always try to add jazzy chords everywhere 😂
If you know every voicing for D major you are going to use whatever voicing fits the song. That's like saying "Im a car mechanic with too many tools, and when I have to fix something I get confused by how many tools I have"
The best musicians didn’t have classical training or school. The greatest guitarists of all time learned themselves. If playing an instrument is all about self expression, then why would you listen to someone else trying to tell you on how you should express yourself?
Ridiculous. You don't need to be educated to play well, but acting as though it puts you at a disadvantage is hogwash. Rock guitar is not the only kind of music on earth.
I'm inclined to disagree with you. Listen to Spanish Classical Music. The guitarists (like many classical musicians) arrest often overlooked because they weren't composers, but to say that classical training didn't birth some of the best guitarists on the face of the planet is just wrong.
You'll never learn anything about guitar, music, or theory that makes you worse at playing. Not having formal training and "playing by ear" is valid, I played that way for many years. I really took off when I learned some basic theory though. Once I learned how chords relate to one another, how scales and chord scales work, and how to understand what is happening in a song theoretically, I achieved freedom to play whatever I want, and can almost play whatever I think.
One word:
"Context."
In other words:
"Do what's needed for the song."
By all means, everyone should play at a high level, HOWEVER, they should understand context to an even higher level than their playing.
i would go with "wanker"
Honestly he’s right. Once I went to school for it I stopped writing riffs. I’ve only recently forced myself to stop overthinking everything and just play what sounds good
I usually equate it to a sort of “option paralysis” 🤷♂️
Yeah but I feel like that doesn’t exist as much as you might think, in the niche categories and genres maybe but, just because you know how to incorporate tritone substitution into a song doesn’t mean you will, most great musicians just hear the music in their head and plays what fits, when someone presents an idea most of the options go away and you head in the direction that sounds the best not the one that is complicated on paper. Most studio musicians on most records have a vast amount of knowledge in music and their instrument but they play Taylor swift songs, the difference is they play it perfectly with 0 nonsense. Even when they get creative freedom they do what’s best for the song.
Makes total sense. You have to play what the song calls for. An inversion may not sound right.
The better you get, the less you play.
Playing with feel vs playing with theory.
No more like playing with feel and theory
Can I get that minute back
Its fucking true
those jazz chords are addicting asf tho
I had to stop playing for about 3 months just so I could "relearn" my chop to stop playing jazz chords out of place 😅
imo "jazz" chords don't exist its just false complexity or anything slightly outside realm of positions ppl are used to lol this benchod is annoying as hell
I swear 😂 and those hammer on and pull off are so tempting
You're just gonna put a 7 chord in front of me and expect me not to alter it. There expectations are unreasonable
ADDICTIVE* RAHHH grinds my gears when people say 'addicting' lol
I'm suddenly more encouraged by how bad I still am at the trombone. I'm way closer to getting work than I realized.😂
Its just like them singers with AWESOME voices that feel the need to do vocal runs every other line in a song while singing thru their nose. right?.
A good belt will impress me far more than the best vocal run in the world. Mariah Carey is a prime example of this over the top up her own arse kind of singing. Whitney Houston on the other hand knew what to sing and when
@@jones848 Rob Halford rules all of them. 70+ years old and makes them sound like a collective of whiny school children begging for candy.
Having restraint and understanding the sound needed is ideal
One of the best pieces of advice my piano teacher gave me is a good musician will look bored.
Don’t let your ego get in the way, play for the song, not yourself.
I agree with this but also there are so many musicians who can't sing that well or play anything complex but are still incredibly passionate and can write great songs.
I can sleep to this man, so soothing
I personally find that the more complicated a song sounds the more lifeless and mechanical it feels. I can appreciate complexity and the skill involved but I honestly am just as, if not more, excited and entertained by 2 chords and raw honestly.
"i wasnt doing it for support" then explains how it was for support.
Why was it so satisfying when he played all the variations of D Major at an absurd speed?😂
Truth. I constantly said I was better before I knew what I was doing. Better songwriter then as well. If I could make something that sounded good, that was good enough. The last song I wrote before retiring was saved by a musician far less experienced than me. She said, "Why don't you play it this way?" and took out all my metaphorical bells and whistles. Tight three minutes that got the tone of my lyrics perfectly.
You're confusing musicianship with technical proficiency. They latter CAN boost the former, but it can also get in the way if you focus too much on developing it. That's not an excuse to say you have a disadvantage. You've stocked a huge toolbox, now you need to work on knowing which tool is right for which job.
I think a big part is that people neglect really learning rhythm guitar. They learn beginner rhythm guitar and move on to solos. 99% of all guitar is defined by what the rhythm guitar is doing and there are so many different ways to approach it depending on the genre and style of music. Like the rhythm guitar in a Green Day song is totally different from a Bee Gees song. A Johnny Cash song is totally different from a Prince song. And the subtleties of those various styles can spell the difference between an amazing cover song and that really boring bar chord version everyone does when they've only been playing a couple years.
ya, and which ones do you actually like in a more profound way. filtering things out is a very important action
Holy shit this is a gem I needed to see this
This is true. Nowadays I’ll improvise and think about how much more melodic and thought out my playing was back when I just knew the pentatonic and a couple of blues licks.
It’s really as simple as leaving enough space for other instruments to blend in. Giant voicings that add a bunch of extra tension and take up all the sonic space need to be used for a reason. Each note added has an effect on the feeling of the chord and how it relates to everything else. I used to always use the most complex chords I could think of, and it has a surprisingly sterile effect. Makes the music sound empty when done without purpose. Simpler voicings also leave more open to the listener’s own ear. Sometimes it’s like you hear overtones coming out of simple chords that add imaginary extensions. Makes it more interactive.
Forgot to mention that it often sounds better too lol
Interesting experience
Don’t you love when a great musician humble brags 😂
it's kinda like when you're playing a video game and you want to pull off a combo so badly that you end up being shit at the game just to nail that combo since you know how to do it
This about ego, not who is 'better' or 'worse' at music.
"if you can't do shit it better because that shit is supposedly never needed💀"
That’s a long way to flex your inversions
I’ve been playing for 21 years. I can play rhythm and I can shred. 😂😂😂
But this makes perfect sense! Your example is actually a respectable one.
He’s got a point. Same could be said about technical proficiency and precision. A lot of guitarists have mastered their craft to such a level of technical perfection that their playing sounds soulless, as if it were done by a computer.
Bro is testing my patiance level
Easy way to sum this up, "less is more" especially in this context.
“I’m really good, you aren’t, BUT YOURE BETTER I SWEAR!”
Dude if you play all those D majors like how you just did in sequence it sounds like a dark souls boss fight
Being skilled on your instrument is necessary for great musicianship, but musicianship is about having a holistic view of the work, and playing in service of it.
Expectations are a big factor too.
it’s called being in the pocket. you’re doing your job without hotdogging.
Its like trying to have a conversation with a girl who thinks she knows everything because she is in college...she isnt really listening to your point, just waiting for her turn to repeat slogans she just learned.
worse musicians focus on technique + skill while better musicians focus on music + talent
the most humble brag guitar video of all time.
This video is one of the weirder flexes I've seen in a while.
One of the weirder arguments I've heard.
I guess ppl aren’t lying to me when they tell me I sound good
its just the rawness ur talking about
Felt this many times, also if you have a decent voice and can play basic chords, you win over pretty much anything I can play, that’s just the industry
*whispers*: that means you’re not actually a “better musician”
This is great technical prowess vs great feel. People can have both you just have to know when to do it.
I thought he was going to talk about showmanship or something that’s a little outside musical education.
How does one go about learning how to play the notes in a bunch of ways. Kinda new to this stuff and got a lot to learn.
Usually it’s more about experience rather than skills. Generally, the more experience you have, the less you actually play. Focusing on what the song needs, rather than impressing your fellow musicians with complex lines and voicings.
There's a big difference between having a lot of knowledge/technical ability and being a good musician
Biggest mistake here is thinking that noodling fast is a sign of good musicianship
Modern music: 3 chords in front of 300 people
Jazz musicians: 300 chords in front of 3 people
First time I’ve seen your content- interesting pov, and one I’ve thought of often. I’d say grass is greener , depending on the type of musician you’re talking to , if you ask them.
I subbed.
Couldn’t have said it better! Excellent point
It's just so fun to play music, and when you're experienced and you know a little bit of the razzmatazz, it can be hard to rein it in because it's just so enjoyable to play. But most people don't really want to hear that - other musicians might, but most listeners just don't want that complexity. It's a tough thing to walk sometimes.
Hard to believe that having a larger musical vocabulary is ever a disadvantage. But I can see that using it inappropriately could be .
When you have a hammer, the world looks like a nail.
"Less is more" -Zack Rodriguez
lol
The D Major examples sounded like an Ichika Nito song, and I love it.
Catherine Elgin draw some meaningful considerations regarding this question in a paper called "The epistemic efficacy of stupidity". Its an amazing epistemological discussion!
I learn that the hard way, I was hired by a band to replace the guitar player for a wedding, and in the rehearsal I played a lot of extensions and inversions, and the singer just said "WTF are you playing" hahahah then said "just chill, keep it simple, we are not here to impress anybody" since that day I felt my musical decisions improve so much, because I think a lot more about the context I'm playing, and when is apropiate to add some spice into the music
It depends on how creative the person is
when you learned all the stuff you then have to use it in the right was, so very often we still play the easy stuff, but every now and then we throw in some other things to make it a bit more exciting :D
Imagine every absolute legendary iconic guitarist since the 60’s and think of all those riffs and progressions made up of power chords, and imagine if they were all like ‘nah I’ll make it real sick by playing it a galored way’ take 95% of the guitar worlds body of work and just throw it in the bin. Simplicity wins over and over again.
There is something called like the "ignorance advantage". If you are a good thinker, sometimes your lack of knowledge will let you come up wtih something that is a lot harder to imagine for someone with more knowledge on any given subject.
I've noticed that the more I develop my technique, the worse my playing sounds. I'm more impressed with old recordings I made in my first 3 months of playing than the stuff I play now several years later. It always feels like something is never right, too much thinking, too many notes, etc. The more I learn the more I nitpick and confuse myself. Sadly as of now I still have not figured out a good solution for this, so I'm just muddling through, becoming increasingly more skilled at playing decreasingly good music.
Totally get it. Like Prince said, just play what the song needs.
It's because the more you know the easier it is to complicate what you're playing. Sometimes it works at very well, other times not so much. Knowing when and where to add the complexity is key, and that comes from maturing as a musician. It's great to know as much as you can know... but you only get better by playing with other musicians. Often times when you play gigs it's best to keep it simple, and show off on a solo... knowing how to play a chord it multiple ways is absolutely fantastic, because it is playing that chord in different voicings... sometimes the simplest voicing works the best. Still cool to experiment with the different voicing, but in an impromptu jam keep it simple almost always works...
the drummer law: "less is more"
Ok now I see how much I actually need to learn 😂
It's called "over thinking it". Been doing that for 40+ years.
This is less about skill and more about the player having a lack of pretension.
I guess it's also important to get along with the rest of the band members besides playing good music.