I'm a professional skipper and sailing instructor who has sailed and taught on many types of monohulls & catamarans over the years. I owned and lived aboard a Lagoon 440 for 18 months cruising and it was my first flybridge cat. I agree with most of what you said - the flybridge is safer in all conditions including wild weather (contrary to what the armchair sailors may say - if you're scared of getting wet you better stick to the yacht club), the visibility is unmatched, anchoring & docking is easier (even single handed) and the extra living space is awesome. However, every vessel is a compromise and a minor downside of the flybridge is extra windage and added weight. The major downside is the raised boom. This moves the centre of effort and centre of pressure of the mainsail upward which is never good on a sailboat. It also makes the boom difficult to reach. However, the pluses outweigh the minuses. I single handed my 440 for the last 8 months and loved every minute. It actually surprised me how well it sailed, even to windward.
I have a 50' flybridge MY and I would never buy another MY without a flybridge. That said, a catamaran is different for the reasons you wrote here. I am having an aluminum cat built (I'm in Asia) and I still want my helm up high, but within the cockpit rather than on the coach roof (where I want tons of solar panels,) and just off center (allowing for a large cockpit door) which permits the 360 degree view from the helm, but also allows the boom to remain low, and being closer to the water puts me closer to the dock for docking. My 15' high flybridge is not that easy to single hand , especially in winds, because I have to run down to handle the anchor or lines, so I had to work out my own system to do it. With a higher up center or just off center cockpit helm, I can hold the stern line in my hand and either toss it to the dockhand, or jump off the boat myself to tie up once I come close to the dock. I single hand my boat all the time, but being so high up makes it much more difficult. The views, however, are spectacular, and yes, lots of wind (but as you said, on a cat that means more windage and weight.)
I consider the lagoon 440 as the last good lagoon, before they became 1.2 milion euro floating apartments that have weak bulk heads. The 450 was not that bad, but the new 46 can't move under sail in anything under than 12 knots.
@@Reality_TV The lines, and anchoring. Anchoring: I set up a buoy with line tied to the anchor so that the buoy floats above the anchor and I can see where the anchor is off of the flybridge. I also tie colored ribbon onto the chain every 10 meters (I cannot see the red paint on the anchor from the bridge unless I use binoculars) so I can see how much chain I'm dropping. My Riva does not have a chain counter, so it takes me a little longer to drop and weigh the anchor, but after a while, like anything, you figure out a system that you get proficient at. I do have to get down off the bridge twice - once for set up, and the other to bring the buoy and line up. I would imagine this to be a little more difficult on a larger cat because not all cats have their anchors off the bow. The buoy would disappear under the netting. But newer boats do have chain counters.
I appreciate your taking this issue up and discussing it. We chartered a Lagoon 450S last year and a 450F this year. Understanding that every boat is different, i have two observations. I’m 6’1” and the 450s fit very well when anchoring, grabbing a mooring ball or docking on the starboard side. The communication with friends in the cockpit was good. This year on the 450 F, I really felt handcuffed within the controls when docking as they were too low when I was standing and I couldn’t see enough if I was sitting and it felt quite awkward. My broker said once you go F you never go back, but I’m not sure I agree. The view is undisputable though. I’m chartering a 42 Lagoon this fall to see how this may all work out. We’ll see Mike Williams
When we started looking for the perfect cat the wife was dead set against a fly bridge boat. Now after spending some time on several Lagoon models from the 400 across the Atlantic, chartering a 42 around the med and then spending some time on a 450 F she has now changed her tune. It’s flybridge all the way for us now. Never felt disconnected. Most the time everyone wants to be up top anyway. On Night passages we always navigate from inside so we really like the fly bridge boat.
I agree with the visibility issue, and have had a flybridge on most of my powerboats. What about the issue of smaller sail area, and higher center of effort?
Totally agree with you ...... however ...... if solo sailing it seems to me that a flybridge puts you further from the bow when docking. That would be my concern.
What's about the argument of high center of main sail area? Especially the ones with a full head room fly have 2 m higher main booms. That causes one to put in the reef earlier. Or means less speed because of safety.
IT JUST MEANS A LITTLE LESS SPEED. SOME OF THESE NEW DESIGNS THAT MOVED THE MASTS WAY BACK ARE SERIOUSLY UNDER-POWERED IN WINDS UNDER 15K AND CHOPPY SEAS
Daggerboard cats and keel cats will have significant performance differences so it's kind of like comparing "apples to oranges".. Otherwise, I frankly do not see the flybridge slowing you down in a big way. I've been in two major catamaran races in the past couple years...with at least thirty catamarans in each regatta all over 40' long. What surprised me the most is that the Lagoon 450's cleaned up! They really sail well on all points of sail. The sail plans are well balanced for most wind conditions. In my opinion, most keel cats have similar underbodies and it is the sail plan and "who is sailing the boat" that makes the big difference.
Good information Gary . For two cents worth Who were these boat manufacturers that started all this hoopla with the fly bridges.😁 C'mon now spill the beans 😂 Thanks for the insight Fairwinds from the @captains.chair
I love your content! Am I seeing good deals on cats now or is it my imagination? I’d love to see your opinion on the best value or what you would buy cats for around 300K. Or maybe just best value at any price.
I'm a professional skipper and sailing instructor who has sailed and taught on many types of monohulls & catamarans over the years. I owned and lived aboard a Lagoon 440 for 18 months cruising and it was my first flybridge cat. I agree with most of what you said - the flybridge is safer in all conditions including wild weather (contrary to what the armchair sailors may say - if you're scared of getting wet you better stick to the yacht club), the visibility is unmatched, anchoring & docking is easier (even single handed) and the extra living space is awesome. However, every vessel is a compromise and a minor downside of the flybridge is extra windage and added weight. The major downside is the raised boom. This moves the centre of effort and centre of pressure of the mainsail upward which is never good on a sailboat. It also makes the boom difficult to reach. However, the pluses outweigh the minuses. I single handed my 440 for the last 8 months and loved every minute. It actually surprised me how well it sailed, even to windward.
Thank you for this! These are important points and people need to read this!
I have a 50' flybridge MY and I would never buy another MY without a flybridge. That said, a catamaran is different for the reasons you wrote here. I am having an aluminum cat built (I'm in Asia) and I still want my helm up high, but within the cockpit rather than on the coach roof (where I want tons of solar panels,) and just off center (allowing for a large cockpit door) which permits the 360 degree view from the helm, but also allows the boom to remain low, and being closer to the water puts me closer to the dock for docking. My 15' high flybridge is not that easy to single hand , especially in winds, because I have to run down to handle the anchor or lines, so I had to work out my own system to do it. With a higher up center or just off center cockpit helm, I can hold the stern line in my hand and either toss it to the dockhand, or jump off the boat myself to tie up once I come close to the dock. I single hand my boat all the time, but being so high up makes it much more difficult. The views, however, are spectacular, and yes, lots of wind (but as you said, on a cat that means more windage and weight.)
I consider the lagoon 440 as the last good lagoon, before they became 1.2 milion euro floating apartments that have weak bulk heads. The 450 was not that bad, but the new 46 can't move under sail in anything under than 12 knots.
@@rabukan5842 - Other than handling the lines, do you have any other complaints or problems single-handing?
@@Reality_TV The lines, and anchoring. Anchoring: I set up a buoy with line tied to the anchor so that the buoy floats above the anchor and I can see where the anchor is off of the flybridge. I also tie colored ribbon onto the chain every 10 meters (I cannot see the red paint on the anchor from the bridge unless I use binoculars) so I can see how much chain I'm dropping. My Riva does not have a chain counter, so it takes me a little longer to drop and weigh the anchor, but after a while, like anything, you figure out a system that you get proficient at. I do have to get down off the bridge twice - once for set up, and the other to bring the buoy and line up. I would imagine this to be a little more difficult on a larger cat because not all cats have their anchors off the bow. The buoy would disappear under the netting. But newer boats do have chain counters.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge
I appreciate your taking this issue up and discussing it. We chartered a Lagoon 450S last year and a 450F this year. Understanding that every boat is different, i have two observations. I’m 6’1” and the 450s fit very well when anchoring, grabbing a mooring ball or docking on the starboard side. The communication with friends in the cockpit was good. This year on the 450 F, I really felt handcuffed within the controls when docking as they were too low when I was standing and I couldn’t see enough if I was sitting and it felt quite awkward. My broker said once you go F you never go back, but I’m not sure I agree. The view is undisputable though. I’m chartering a 42 Lagoon this fall to see how this may all work out. We’ll see
Mike Williams
When we started looking for the perfect cat the wife was dead set against a fly bridge boat. Now after spending some time on several Lagoon models from the 400 across the Atlantic, chartering a 42 around the med and then spending some time on a 450 F she has now changed her tune. It’s flybridge all the way for us now. Never felt disconnected. Most the time everyone wants to be up top anyway. On Night passages we always navigate from inside so we really like the fly bridge boat.
Amen, Gary you are right on the money. And you can see the fish and lobsters better
I agree with the visibility issue, and have had a flybridge on most of my powerboats. What about the issue of smaller sail area, and higher center of effort?
Totally agree with you ...... however ...... if solo sailing it seems to me that a flybridge puts you further from the bow when docking. That would be my concern.
What's about the argument of high center of main sail area? Especially the ones with a full head room fly have 2 m higher main booms. That causes one to put in the reef earlier. Or means less speed because of safety.
IT JUST MEANS A LITTLE LESS SPEED. SOME OF THESE NEW DESIGNS THAT MOVED THE MASTS WAY BACK ARE SERIOUSLY UNDER-POWERED IN WINDS UNDER 15K AND CHOPPY SEAS
Nice !! And thanks for some positive from the 'other side'. The only point you did not address is performance. Any thoughts?
Daggerboard cats and keel cats will have significant performance differences so it's kind of like comparing "apples to oranges"..
Otherwise, I frankly do not see the flybridge slowing you down in a big way. I've been in two major catamaran races in the past couple years...with at least thirty catamarans in each regatta all over 40' long. What surprised me the most is that the Lagoon 450's cleaned up! They really sail well on all points of sail. The sail plans are well balanced for most wind conditions. In my opinion, most keel cats have similar underbodies and it is the sail plan and "who is sailing the boat" that makes the big difference.
If you want to know how a flybridge cat goes world sailing, check out Catamaran Impi........ Brent and Ana love their Lagoon 440 F
Good information Gary . For two cents worth Who were these boat manufacturers that started all this hoopla with the fly bridges.😁 C'mon now spill the beans 😂
Thanks for the insight
Fairwinds from the @captains.chair
👍🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻⛵🌬
Best advice yet!!!!!
I love your content! Am I seeing good deals on cats now or is it my imagination? I’d love to see your opinion on the best value or what you would buy cats for around 300K. Or maybe just best value at any price.