+Anthony Johnson when talking about the Blight she thanks the Maker for ending the Blight instead of oh I dont know, the Hero of Fereldan. Typical religious bullshit; when someone does something bad its their fault but when does something good then its the Maker whose responsible. The idea of her being vaporized by Anders's bomb puts a smile on my face.
Whats stupid is that if the chantry did something like I dunno, protecting society from demonic possession by providing mages an area wherein they can be trained and taught to control and use their magic wisely, people scorn them. When the chantry does nothing they also complain about apathy or inaction. Its never really a question about the effects of one action or another. Ettina prevented Orlais for launching a blessed march that would have killed everyone in kirkwall. She tried to be diplomatic and sought for a peaceful alternative regarding the brashness of the mages and the templars. But fuck her right, doesn't matter that what she did, just because she thanked the maker for securing ferelden from the darkspawn (when back then being considered an instrument of god's rightenousness is seen as a great honor, thus by thanking the maker, you are basically calling those who did his will as avatars on this realm).
Sebastian is a surprisingly well-written character. I haven't played the DLC myself so I don't have first hand experience, but I kept hearing about how he's such a wimp. He's prude and pious, yes, but he's firm in his beliefs and makes pretty good arguments for them. And he's not nearly as annoying as I expected, either.
The problem with Sebastian is that his character lacks narrative weight and likability. The most significant addition his DLC adds is an expansion on the already important character of Grand Cleric Elthina. As for Sebastian himself, he's obnoxiously hypocritical. To quote one reviewer "As a character he's not very likable; condescending while adopting a humble front but abandoning when challenged." Sebastian tries to be like the priestess, but can't on account of his own arrogance and "I know best, my way is the only way" attitude.
It's because he's religious and especially when your target audience is twenty-somethings, they're not gonna like that. I thought he was a refreshing change of pace even back when I first played DA2 in high school but there you go.
Whats stupid is that if the chantry did something like I dunno, protect society from demonic possession by providing mages an area wherein they can be trained and taught to control and use their magic wisely, people scorn them. When the chantry does nothing they also complain about apathy or inaction. Its never really a question about the effects of one action or another, it just plain hatred and angst against religion. People hate him because a side of him represents things people hate and to justfiy that hatred they put him into a corner and simplify his character (Sebastian, the pious moron who knows nothing yet is extremely pushy about his beliefs) and would only approve of his character if it represents a way to lambast that thing that people hate him for (his religiousity) When in truth, Sebastian is a seeker of justice not unlike anders, and his quest for justice is more multifaceted than anders or even fenris for it evolves throughout the story. He was disowned by his family for his decadent lifestyle, he grew resentful and angry for being abandoned by his family for indulging in his privledge, However he was given shelter by the grand cleric ettina who housed him and protected him. He was redeemed through contrition and reflection and became a better person for it, ultimately forgiving his family. Then his family dies... assassinated, murdered. He sought justice and even argued against the fair and mercy driven grand cleric Ettina who in his mind is like a second mother to him. He followed the rabbit hole surrounding his family's murders and discovered that the plot to kill his family and him was ultimately the work of a malificarum, further proving his beliefs regarding the dangers of untrained and unsupervised mages. Yet even then, he bows down to the merciful hand of Grand Cleric Ettina and supported her decision to convince a chantry official from launching a blessed march against kirkwall Then the ultimate tragedy hits, Anders not just destroys the chantry and the people who live and work there which he viewed as his home and kin, but also kills Grand Cleric Ettina, who is a dear to a mother to him. His entire story is him continually losing everything he had, yet people still hate him because the thing that kept him strong was his religion. There was already plenty of material in dragon age 2 and origins criticizing the chantry and here comes Sebastian who isn't even the greatest representation of the chantry (that goes to Grand Cleric Ettina) and people screech about how horrible it is.
1:34 Not to mention the Hero of Ferelden who was, depending on Origin: Human Noble: A noble from Highever who had to join the Wardens after their family was murdered by Arl Howe. City Elf: An elf from Denerim's Alienage who was put in an arranged marriage which was promptly interrupted by the sadistic and elf-hating Bann Vaughan. Mage: A circle mage who was also given to the Grey Wardens, just like Anders. Dwarf Commoner: A casteless dwarf who had to commit crimes for the Carta just to survive. Dwarf Noble: A member of Orzammar's royal family who was eventually stripped of their Caste and exiled to the Deep Roads because of Bhelen's political scheming. Dalish: A Dalish Elf who had to join the Wardens after contracting the Darkspawn taint. Which highlights Sebastian's point that nobody is truly free.
What a terrible argument. Freedom from imprisonment isn’t the same thing as the absolute freedom to do whatever you want without other people or random events interfering with your plans. One person being forced to join the Wardens to escape death isn’t comparable to every single mage being forced to join the Circle or die. They aren’t even close to the same scale. One of them is an unfortunate tragedy, the other is a system of oppression that has existed for Ages. Yeah, life isn’t fair, but that isn’t an excuse for not making it as fair as it can possibly be.
I like when Sebastian doesn't have answer for someone's question he just says something like "we humans can't know all about the world so just be patient"
Anders: Andraste was killed. That doesn’t mean she failed. Me, immediately: You are planning to blow up the chantry and murder dozens-if not hundreds-of innocent people. Not to mention risk the entire circle being annulled and souring the opinions of any sympathizers the mages did have. You are NOT Andraste. Sebastian, just as insulted: Do not compare yourself to Andraste. well then... seems like me and sebastion do agree on at least one thing after all😒
@@Iridescent_One No war is ever fought without innocent people dying. Anders' actions can certainly be called unacceptable and unnecessary but I don't think he was entirely wrong. If given the choice my Hawke would still have helped him with full knowledge.
@@xenon8117 And that’s your choice to make. It’s an rpg after all. I however refuse to support Anders in a literal act of terrorism. Because that’s exactly what it is. It wasn’t innocents getting caught in the crossfire, it was him choosing to sacrifice them to serve his cause and scare people into action. The ends don’t always justify the means and I don’t support the idea of fighting so hard for mages to have basic human rights that you lose your humanity in the process. All human life has intrinsic value; that’s the argument for pro-mage rights. Runs a little sour when innocent lives are deliberately wasted just to make a point. Anyway, it’s your game. Your choice. We both agree the mages should be free, but I simply disagree with how one should get there. Have a nice day.
@@Iridescent_One Oh I disagree with my choice too you're right on all counts that it is terrorism. In that setting though I find myself willing to take bold and even terrible action to push things ahead. I'm a bit like Solas I think, willing to destroy a great deal for the ultimate goal.
I really do not like Sebastian or Elthina neither don't seem to be aware that faith can only get you so far you also have to take action in which Elthina epically failed at and so does Sebastian in some ways
I 'm supprised that so many people dislike Sebastian, personaly he is one of my favorite characters, and the only one beside Fenris that is willing to stand against that abomination Madness.
@thomas brady Slavery ? i would hardly called learning how not to get possesed by demon Slavery. It is disguisting, what mages will do for little more power.
You know, you do get to play as a circle mage in dragon age origins and it wasn't that bad. Alot of people, even mages, viewed the circle as a way for mages to train their magic far from the ire of civilians scarred by the centuries of torment from magisters and kept safe from demonic possession by templars. They also get free lodging and food and depending on what area, you get extravagant goods and luxuries too. Heck many in the ferelden circle were friends with their templar counterparts. And there's many in game text stating that kirkwall's templars were extensively authoritarian compared to many other areas.
@@idfkwhatyouwantfromme insanity usually is made by traumatic events, and even if i think that Anders is just a little sad cowardly bitch, he still lived some events, Sebastian was basically brainwashed by religion...in every banter with him, he usually gives the classic answers that you expect from a brainwashed guy...he doesn't reason or try to make his own opinion, it's like reading the same book over and over and expecting new contents everytime you read that book(which is impossible unless you write something in the blank pages)...not mentioning that Faith is believing in something that you never witnessed...at least Anders is sure that mages are treated badly and wants to help them(even though he is basically insane)
he has a point and I completly agree with him blowing up the Chantry, the Chantry and Templars are monsters and its about time the mages rose up against those cunts
![Dragon Age 2: Party Banter: Anders & Varric [complete]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/gcMxJ2cNko8/mqdefault.jpg)
![Dragon Age 2: Party Banter: Anders & Varric [complete]](/img/tr.png)
![Dragon Age 2: Party Banter: Aveline & Merrill [complete]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/r7Ct026V7iM/mqdefault.jpg)
![Dragon Age 2: Party Banter: Anders & Isabela [complete]](/img/n.gif)
Anders thing about Sebastians armour made me laugh out loud. Also because he sounded so appalled by the idea.
Yeah that's funny
I see people who hate Anders, people who hate Sebastian, people who hate both. And I just love every character in this game
Close nuff, but I still dislike sebastian. If for anything else but suggestion of turning party mages in.
Anders and Merril can delightfully sod off :)
so quirky
See I'm one of those freaks who loves them both SO MUCH.
Anders:' Does nothing bother you?'
Sebastian: 'You're bothering me.'
I guess Fenris is rubbing off on Sebastian xD
Merril so cute. "I saw that too!"
I love it when Anders calls Elthina "that doddering old biddy of a grand cleric", I hate her so much. lol
+Anthony Johnson
when talking about the Blight she thanks the Maker for ending the Blight instead of oh I dont know, the Hero of Fereldan. Typical religious bullshit; when someone does something bad its their fault but when does something good then its the Maker whose responsible. The idea of her being vaporized by Anders's bomb puts a smile on my face.
Anthony Johnson “tried her best”? She did nothing. And you know what they say about apathy...it’s death.
Whats stupid is that if the chantry did something like I dunno, protecting society from demonic possession by providing mages an area wherein they can be trained and taught to control and use their magic wisely, people scorn them. When the chantry does nothing they also complain about apathy or inaction.
Its never really a question about the effects of one action or another.
Ettina prevented Orlais for launching a blessed march that would have killed everyone in kirkwall. She tried to be diplomatic and sought for a peaceful alternative regarding the brashness of the mages and the templars.
But fuck her right, doesn't matter that what she did, just because she thanked the maker for securing ferelden from the darkspawn (when back then being considered an instrument of god's rightenousness is seen as a great honor, thus by thanking the maker, you are basically calling those who did his will as avatars on this realm).
I would have replaced both Meredith and Orsina
Sebastian is a surprisingly well-written character. I haven't played the DLC myself so I don't have first hand experience, but I kept hearing about how he's such a wimp. He's prude and pious, yes, but he's firm in his beliefs and makes pretty good arguments for them. And he's not nearly as annoying as I expected, either.
Aye, Sebastian is in fact my favorite Male Char in the game.
And I'm male.
The problem with Sebastian is that his character lacks narrative weight and likability. The most significant addition his DLC adds is an expansion on the already important character of Grand Cleric Elthina. As for Sebastian himself, he's obnoxiously hypocritical. To quote one reviewer "As a character he's not very likable; condescending while adopting a humble front but abandoning when challenged." Sebastian tries to be like the priestess, but can't on account of his own arrogance and "I know best, my way is the only way" attitude.
It's because he's religious and especially when your target audience is twenty-somethings, they're not gonna like that. I thought he was a refreshing change of pace even back when I first played DA2 in high school but there you go.
@thomas brady www.tumblr.com/dashboard/blog/fade-and-loathing-in-thedas/187068246387 just putting the opinion i share about him here...
Whats stupid is that if the chantry did something like I dunno, protect society from demonic possession by providing mages an area wherein they can be trained and taught to control and use their magic wisely, people scorn them. When the chantry does nothing they also complain about apathy or inaction.
Its never really a question about the effects of one action or another, it just plain hatred and angst against religion.
People hate him because a side of him represents things people hate and to justfiy that hatred they put him into a corner and simplify his character (Sebastian, the pious moron who knows nothing yet is extremely pushy about his beliefs) and would only approve of his character if it represents a way to lambast that thing that people hate him for (his religiousity)
When in truth, Sebastian is a seeker of justice not unlike anders, and his quest for justice is more multifaceted than anders or even fenris for it evolves throughout the story.
He was disowned by his family for his decadent lifestyle, he grew resentful and angry for being abandoned by his family for indulging in his privledge, However he was given shelter by the grand cleric ettina who housed him and protected him. He was redeemed through contrition and reflection and became a better person for it, ultimately forgiving his family. Then his family dies... assassinated, murdered. He sought justice and even argued against the fair and mercy driven grand cleric Ettina who in his mind is like a second mother to him. He followed the rabbit hole surrounding his family's murders and discovered that the plot to kill his family and him was ultimately the work of a malificarum, further proving his beliefs regarding the dangers of untrained and unsupervised mages. Yet even then, he bows down to the merciful hand of Grand Cleric Ettina and supported her decision to convince a chantry official from launching a blessed march against kirkwall
Then the ultimate tragedy hits, Anders not just destroys the chantry and the people who live and work there which he viewed as his home and kin, but also kills Grand Cleric Ettina, who is a dear to a mother to him.
His entire story is him continually losing everything he had, yet people still hate him because the thing that kept him strong was his religion.
There was already plenty of material in dragon age 2 and origins criticizing the chantry and here comes Sebastian who isn't even the greatest representation of the chantry (that goes to Grand Cleric Ettina) and people screech about how horrible it is.
I wonder what banter between Solas, and Anders would be like or better yet Anders and Vivienne.
With vivienne... it would be messy.
1:34
Not to mention the Hero of Ferelden who was, depending on Origin:
Human Noble: A noble from Highever who had to join the Wardens after their family was murdered by Arl Howe.
City Elf: An elf from Denerim's Alienage who was put in an arranged marriage which was promptly interrupted by the sadistic and elf-hating Bann Vaughan.
Mage: A circle mage who was also given to the Grey Wardens, just like Anders.
Dwarf Commoner: A casteless dwarf who had to commit crimes for the Carta just to survive.
Dwarf Noble: A member of Orzammar's royal family who was eventually stripped of their Caste and exiled to the Deep Roads because of Bhelen's political scheming.
Dalish: A Dalish Elf who had to join the Wardens after contracting the Darkspawn taint.
Which highlights Sebastian's point that nobody is truly free.
Finding evil in the world is a reason to seek change.
Comparing the chantry to rapists and evil zombies is kind of telling tbh.
Fun fact if the hero of ferledin is a human mage he is also hawks cousin
What a terrible argument. Freedom from imprisonment isn’t the same thing as the absolute freedom to do whatever you want without other people or random events interfering with your plans. One person being forced to join the Wardens to escape death isn’t comparable to every single mage being forced to join the Circle or die. They aren’t even close to the same scale. One of them is an unfortunate tragedy, the other is a system of oppression that has existed for Ages.
Yeah, life isn’t fair, but that isn’t an excuse for not making it as fair as it can possibly be.
Well, he has no discernible personality, but that voice...
His personality is that he's a spoiled brat hiding the fact under a veneer of false piety.
I like when Sebastian doesn't have answer for someone's question he just says something like "we humans can't know all about the world so just be patient"
Maker, but I do adore that accent.
Anders: Andraste was killed. That doesn’t mean she failed.
Me, immediately: You are planning to blow up the chantry and murder dozens-if not hundreds-of innocent people. Not to mention risk the entire circle being annulled and souring the opinions of any sympathizers the mages did have. You are NOT Andraste.
Sebastian, just as insulted: Do not compare yourself to Andraste.
well then... seems like me and sebastion do agree on at least one thing after all😒
Nobody will even remember those deaths in 200 years but if the mages win they'll finally be free.
@@xenon8117 Victory at the expense of the innocent is no victory at all.
@@Iridescent_One No war is ever fought without innocent people dying. Anders' actions can certainly be called unacceptable and unnecessary but I don't think he was entirely wrong. If given the choice my Hawke would still have helped him with full knowledge.
@@xenon8117 And that’s your choice to make. It’s an rpg after all. I however refuse to support Anders in a literal act of terrorism. Because that’s exactly what it is. It wasn’t innocents getting caught in the crossfire, it was him choosing to sacrifice them to serve his cause and scare people into action.
The ends don’t always justify the means and I don’t support the idea of fighting so hard for mages to have basic human rights that you lose your humanity in the process. All human life has intrinsic value; that’s the argument for pro-mage rights. Runs a little sour when innocent lives are deliberately wasted just to make a point.
Anyway, it’s your game. Your choice. We both agree the mages should be free, but I simply disagree with how one should get there. Have a nice day.
@@Iridescent_One Oh I disagree with my choice too you're right on all counts that it is terrorism. In that setting though I find myself willing to take bold and even terrible action to push things ahead. I'm a bit like Solas I think, willing to destroy a great deal for the ultimate goal.
Vengeance vs faith
I really do not like Sebastian or Elthina neither don't seem to be aware that faith can only get you so far you also have to take action in which Elthina epically failed at and so does Sebastian in some ways
MHURDER
The word was derived from the historical act, not the other way round.
Honestly, Anders makes Fenris look like Ser Pounce a Lot. Brooding for Fenris, Angsty for Anders.
Wait, Sebastian mentioned "Tranquility Solution" and Holocaust? Is Thedas in the same universe as earth after WW2?
@wtfftwffsssf LOL Maker must have told him :D I’ve been wondering this myself how an error this big got past the content checks
these guys hate each other.........this means that yaoi fangirls will make them a couple! D:
I 'm supprised that so many people dislike Sebastian,
personaly he is one of my favorite characters, and the
only one beside Fenris that is willing to stand against that
abomination Madness.
@thomas brady Corrupt in some areas yes. But compared to Tevinter where non-magicians are seen as spell fodder...
@thomas brady Yet i'm yet to see the collums of hundreds of slaves dragged to be sacraficed for some megalomaniac spell.
@thomas brady Slavery ? i would hardly called learning how not to get possesed by demon Slavery. It is disguisting, what mages will do for little more power.
well you're a fcking weirdo allright
You know, you do get to play as a circle mage in dragon age origins and it wasn't that bad. Alot of people, even mages, viewed the circle as a way for mages to train their magic far from the ire of civilians scarred by the centuries of torment from magisters and kept safe from demonic possession by templars.
They also get free lodging and food and depending on what area, you get extravagant goods and luxuries too.
Heck many in the ferelden circle were friends with their templar counterparts.
And there's many in game text stating that kirkwall's templars were extensively authoritarian compared to many other areas.
reason versus faith
More like goddamn insanity versus faith.
@@idfkwhatyouwantfromme Agreed. Reason is no more absolute than faith. Both are subject to the individuals interpreting them.
@@idfkwhatyouwantfromme insanity usually is made by traumatic events, and even if i think that Anders is just a little sad cowardly bitch, he still lived some events, Sebastian was basically brainwashed by religion...in every banter with him, he usually gives the classic answers that you expect from a brainwashed guy...he doesn't reason or try to make his own opinion, it's like reading the same book over and over and expecting new contents everytime you read that book(which is impossible unless you write something in the blank pages)...not mentioning that Faith is believing in something that you never witnessed...at least Anders is sure that mages are treated badly and wants to help them(even though he is basically insane)
Vengeance vs faith
Sevastian is a pric
Can't brethe
Oh by the maker i hate anders he just does not shut up about mages
he has a point and I completly agree with him blowing up the Chantry, the Chantry and Templars are monsters and its about time the mages rose up against those cunts
Behold.....the 2 out of the 3 most annoying character's in DA2 Fenris being the 3rd.
"You're bothering me! lol Awesome Sebastian, fuck that gay Anders.