These are the kinds of comparison videos that I like to see. Using the balls in their element, that longer heavier pattern, with the same surface and same layout. On a house shot is not where I'd necessarily play any of these pieces. Now I know where the Onyx is going to fit in my arsenal.
This is more to understand then it is to "pick a part". Why would you change the cover on the Sub Zero and the Evoke for comparison as all three balls are in different roles on the ball chart. If you are going to manipulate the cover then buy three of the same ball and throw them at all different surfaces. You kept using the descriptor "strong" for the ball "...a really strong, strong ball..." but then you call the Forge Sub Zero a bigger ball at 1000 hand sanded (Factory is 2000) ("...Subzero is more ball in general..."). 40 X 5.5 X 20 so the layout is indicative of getting into an early roll (size of the "N" according to Mo) your angles have it rolling closer to early then you are to getting into the roll late. Where did the MB of the Jackal fall in the layout because the Subzero being symmetric your thumb hole became the MB, and has a larger core in general, if you put the MB of the Onyx in or near your thumb you then made a small core symmetric ball which would allow you to play straighter is greater, which I am a fan of. For clarification I have the Ambush at factory and cannot use it in the same conditions I use my Subzero in, but I also have very different layouts to compliment what the ball is. Ambush made to go long and snap left (hockey stick) when it hits the dry and the Subzero is made to go continuous (banana shape) and if I put them side by side the Subzero isn't a bigger ball it is however a bigger core. I like what you do, keep going, best of luck on the regional tour this year.
@Erick-yl3zi I'm showcasing three different balls all made for heavier amounts of oil. I'm not purchasing 3 of one ball just to showcase. I definitely might buy another Jackal Onyx and surface it differently, but I'm simply comparing three bigger balls. In addition I matched the surface on the Subzero and Evoke to the Jackal for additional comparison. Additionally, I'd usually keep my Subzero around 1K for this pattern anyway, as it's typically a much heavier lay down than what was provided at Gold Coast. At SouthPoint for example I was 5 boards right with my feet and the ball wouldn't wiggle much. They're all drilled the same as suggested by my reps from Motiv and was a heavily vetted layout. Finally, my PAP is drastically different than most and the drilling you are referencing is for an a more traditional roll... because of my angle off the hand, my drillings interact much more differently, almost as if I'm a lefty. This is a common practice for some spinners and 2-handed high rev bowlers. I appreciate your time with the comment. Have an outstanding Holidays Erick.
@Erick-yl3zi i would be remiss, if I didn't also mention the fact that the way you play a pattern like badger is much different than the way you would play a flatter more heavily spread across pattern like the 2023 Masters where I'm playing on gutter to start. These balls all are great but might not look too hot on specific paterns. Thankfully each ball was able to easily find a slot for consistent play on this pattern.
@@HebrewHammerBowling I feel like you took that wrong but I can't infer tone in text. Everything you say is valid, however, three high oil balls finsihed the same does not show how they compliment each other on the ball chart that was my point. Again best of luck on your goals for 2025
@Erick-yl3zi you have a valid POV. Keep in mind that on a longer pattern like this, I'm almost always going 1K with surfacing on a ball regardless just based on experience. If I need to go to a different grit I've got my pads nearby. Constructive criticism is always helpful and I am only about 5 months into my tenure with Motiv so talking to the ball chart still is new to me. I'll work on getting better using the chart since many love using it like yourself. Cheers 🍻!
I have a drifting problem atm when I began working on footwork with Jasnau a bit back... I'm drifitng towards my target when I'm standing further left.... on a more direct approach up the right side I'll usually have little or no drift. It's a work in progress, but still it's good to note where I'm standing in general 👍
@@rb8bowls agreed! This one definitely is different than the rest and is especially helpful for tournament bowlers like myself. Good luck and happy holidays!
Well the Evolution is much more suited for medium conditions imo. The only way it could possibly work on this pattern is hitting it with a ton of surface like 1K. The Onyx is a great option for playing a bit straighter than the Ghost and would be a great option for the heavy and flat patterns. Also would suggest the Forge for more shape. And even a ball like the Pride Liberty with surface would roll well! Many options just depends on the shape desired 😊
Thank you so much for your feedback. My other dilemma is that I dont have a pearl ball at the top of my arsenal. Just the supra rally. Based on your knowledge, which pearl would be more effective the crimson jackal or the new primal evolution? When the evoke is too strong and the ghost doesn't finish? Thanks
@ryanl5279 honestly I'd suggest the Raptor Rush. It's a great ball for surfacing and digs harder and with more angularity. The Evolution is similar in length to the Supra which is why I suggest you branch out. Either the Rush or the Evolution, and the Evolution looks amazing with surfacing too... just want you to have a nice variety.
Do you still see the sub zero as comparable if you had it at 2000 surface? So with using surface would u want both onyx an subzero or just use the sub zero with different surfaces based on lane pattern?
Heavy oil patterns like this one get 1K surface on the heavier equipment. I want them to roll earlier but not overboard. I would've set them all at 1K beforehand. For flatter and more oil we'll go to 500. OOB, especially on the Evoke as well as the Subzero runs the risk of skidding past the BP depending on the lane surface.
@marklindsay426 but to answer the overall question: Yes and no? The Subzero is about 3 boards more ball for me set at 1K, and has much more defined shape... they're different balls meant to play the lane different.. I think what's most important is that now that their shapes are defined, it depends on the pattern being provided and how you plan to attack. Surfacing the Subzero at a less strong grit might lend you a better transition ball, for example.
47 ft now! It plays drastically different depending on the house! Over at South Point is was practically flooded and even the Subzero wouldn't wiggle at the proper breakpoint.
It is very natural for right handed players to drift left, and left handed players to drift right. A 5 -7 board variance is extremely common. I’m sure Jeff will comment on this and let you know for sure!
Your approach and delivery are very stiff & mechanical in appearance Sub Zero by far the best looking shot shape here even while being lined up incorrectly
I'm unsure how to approach your comment...it literally contradicts most tenants and trains of thought. As for my swing and delivery, I've always been super loose/flowy.... if there were issues some of the world class coaches I've visited like Jasnau or Wolfe would've suggested fixes.... they refuse to touch my swing. My approach doesn't have many holes outside of a bit of drifting I'm still working on... it's not stiff. Additionally, the Subzero is my ball of the year for Motiv. I use it ALL THE TIME.. But on this pattern, it was too much ball and forced me left way too early. The Onyx struck consistently better during this shoot and after it. The Subzero might be better with a lighter surface like 3K or 4K but that's forcing it. The angle into the pocket is nice but I only have a few boards of clearance versus the Onyx which had about 4 boards on Badger. Badger pattern really breaks down quickly due to traffic so starting further left really isn't beneficial especially in PBA play. While I love that ball, it would probably get a lower grit on it and used as my next ball up as I move left. Have a good one.
These are the kinds of comparison videos that I like to see. Using the balls in their element, that longer heavier pattern, with the same surface and same layout. On a house shot is not where I'd necessarily play any of these pieces. Now I know where the Onyx is going to fit in my arsenal.
Glad you enjoy this video! We will definitely do more of these on sport patterns. Maybe 2 vs 1 handed soon with Jeff!
You can't get much better than the endless number of Xs I put up. Amazing equipment!
This is more to understand then it is to "pick a part". Why would you change the cover on the Sub Zero and the Evoke for comparison as all three balls are in different roles on the ball chart. If you are going to manipulate the cover then buy three of the same ball and throw them at all different surfaces. You kept using the descriptor "strong" for the ball "...a really strong, strong ball..." but then you call the Forge Sub Zero a bigger ball at 1000 hand sanded (Factory is 2000) ("...Subzero is more ball in general..."). 40 X 5.5 X 20 so the layout is indicative of getting into an early roll (size of the "N" according to Mo) your angles have it rolling closer to early then you are to getting into the roll late. Where did the MB of the Jackal fall in the layout because the Subzero being symmetric your thumb hole became the MB, and has a larger core in general, if you put the MB of the Onyx in or near your thumb you then made a small core symmetric ball which would allow you to play straighter is greater, which I am a fan of. For clarification I have the Ambush at factory and cannot use it in the same conditions I use my Subzero in, but I also have very different layouts to compliment what the ball is. Ambush made to go long and snap left (hockey stick) when it hits the dry and the Subzero is made to go continuous (banana shape) and if I put them side by side the Subzero isn't a bigger ball it is however a bigger core. I like what you do, keep going, best of luck on the regional tour this year.
@Erick-yl3zi I'm showcasing three different balls all made for heavier amounts of oil. I'm not purchasing 3 of one ball just to showcase. I definitely might buy another Jackal Onyx and surface it differently, but I'm simply comparing three bigger balls. In addition I matched the surface on the Subzero and Evoke to the Jackal for additional comparison. Additionally, I'd usually keep my Subzero around 1K for this pattern anyway, as it's typically a much heavier lay down than what was provided at Gold Coast. At SouthPoint for example I was 5 boards right with my feet and the ball wouldn't wiggle much. They're all drilled the same as suggested by my reps from Motiv and was a heavily vetted layout. Finally, my PAP is drastically different than most and the drilling you are referencing is for an a more traditional roll... because of my angle off the hand, my drillings interact much more differently, almost as if I'm a lefty. This is a common practice for some spinners and 2-handed high rev bowlers. I appreciate your time with the comment. Have an outstanding Holidays Erick.
@Erick-yl3zi i would be remiss, if I didn't also mention the fact that the way you play a pattern like badger is much different than the way you would play a flatter more heavily spread across pattern like the 2023 Masters where I'm playing on gutter to start. These balls all are great but might not look too hot on specific paterns. Thankfully each ball was able to easily find a slot for consistent play on this pattern.
@@HebrewHammerBowling I feel like you took that wrong but I can't infer tone in text. Everything you say is valid, however, three high oil balls finsihed the same does not show how they compliment each other on the ball chart that was my point. Again best of luck on your goals for 2025
@Erick-yl3zi you have a valid POV. Keep in mind that on a longer pattern like this, I'm almost always going 1K with surfacing on a ball regardless just based on experience. If I need to go to a different grit I've got my pads nearby. Constructive criticism is always helpful and I am only about 5 months into my tenure with Motiv so talking to the ball chart still is new to me. I'll work on getting better using the chart since many love using it like yourself. Cheers 🍻!
Rex is the best ball review out there let's go! I'm a evoke guy getting my 3rd one drilled
👌👌👌 Thank you!!
Love this dude! Great ball roll and always knowledgeable
Thank you for the love! Jeff knows his stuff!!
For sure. I have 2 guys on my league team that do. I was just noticing as it makes a difference in the initial trajectory
I have a drifting problem atm when I began working on footwork with Jasnau a bit back... I'm drifitng towards my target when I'm standing further left.... on a more direct approach up the right side I'll usually have little or no drift. It's a work in progress, but still it's good to note where I'm standing in general 👍
Great video, good to see the comparison to the other two balls. Good amount of options within the same company for different shapes.
@@rb8bowls agreed! This one definitely is different than the rest and is especially helpful for tournament bowlers like myself. Good luck and happy holidays!
Yep! Each sets up a tad different. Glad to show what they look like in action on something a bit more than a THS.
Thank you! Jeff and the team will definitely keep doing more of these!
Great review!
Thank you!!!
Great review. I have been debating between the onyx and the primal rage evolution. For when the jackal ghost doesn't react in the heavy oil.
Well the Evolution is much more suited for medium conditions imo. The only way it could possibly work on this pattern is hitting it with a ton of surface like 1K. The Onyx is a great option for playing a bit straighter than the Ghost and would be a great option for the heavy and flat patterns. Also would suggest the Forge for more shape. And even a ball like the Pride Liberty with surface would roll well! Many options just depends on the shape desired 😊
Thank you so much for your feedback. My other dilemma is that I dont have a pearl ball at the top of my arsenal. Just the supra rally. Based on your knowledge, which pearl would be more effective the crimson jackal or the new primal evolution? When the evoke is too strong and the ghost doesn't finish?
Thanks
@ryanl5279 honestly I'd suggest the Raptor Rush. It's a great ball for surfacing and digs harder and with more angularity. The Evolution is similar in length to the Supra which is why I suggest you branch out. Either the Rush or the Evolution, and the Evolution looks amazing with surfacing too... just want you to have a nice variety.
Thankyou so much for all the info. Now my decision is clearer. Lets get motivated!!!
Thanks for the love! And thank you Jeff for the communication!
Just realized I should set the audio db at -12 instead of -6 😢😢
It still sounds good amigo. It was SO LOUD in there and it really doesn't seem that way in this shoot.
Still!!! Unacceptable
@@trollingewok tender your resignation immediately, grasshopper.
Love it! 😍
Thank you! 😊
Do you still see the sub zero as comparable if you had it at 2000 surface? So with using surface would u want both onyx an subzero or just use the sub zero with different surfaces based on lane pattern?
Heavy oil patterns like this one get 1K surface on the heavier equipment. I want them to roll earlier but not overboard. I would've set them all at 1K beforehand. For flatter and more oil we'll go to 500. OOB, especially on the Evoke as well as the Subzero runs the risk of skidding past the BP depending on the lane surface.
@marklindsay426 but to answer the overall question: Yes and no? The Subzero is about 3 boards more ball for me set at 1K, and has much more defined shape... they're different balls meant to play the lane different.. I think what's most important is that now that their shapes are defined, it depends on the pattern being provided and how you plan to attack. Surfacing the Subzero at a less strong grit might lend you a better transition ball, for example.
I thought the Badger pattern is usually 52 feet in length!
The new PBA Badger is 47 ft! Still super slick tho and tough!!!
47 ft now! It plays drastically different depending on the house! Over at South Point is was practically flooded and even the Subzero wouldn't wiggle at the proper breakpoint.
Not the same cover as the Subzero just a modified version of it. Definitely stronger for sure
I think this would pair well with my go to mythic jackal ball…
🔥🔥🔥⭐️⭐️
Either you drift like 5 boards, or you miscounted. Saying you start on 35 and at the line on 30..
It is very natural for right handed players to drift left, and left handed players to drift right. A 5 -7 board variance is extremely common. I’m sure Jeff will comment on this and let you know for sure!
Your approach and delivery are very stiff & mechanical in appearance
Sub Zero by far the best looking shot shape here even while being lined up incorrectly
I'm unsure how to approach your comment...it literally contradicts most tenants and trains of thought. As for my swing and delivery, I've always been super loose/flowy.... if there were issues some of the world class coaches I've visited like Jasnau or Wolfe would've suggested fixes.... they refuse to touch my swing. My approach doesn't have many holes outside of a bit of drifting I'm still working on... it's not stiff. Additionally, the Subzero is my ball of the year for Motiv. I use it ALL THE TIME.. But on this pattern, it was too much ball and forced me left way too early. The Onyx struck consistently better during this shoot and after it. The Subzero might be better with a lighter surface like 3K or 4K but that's forcing it. The angle into the pocket is nice but I only have a few boards of clearance versus the Onyx which had about 4 boards on Badger. Badger pattern really breaks down quickly due to traffic so starting further left really isn't beneficial especially in PBA play. While I love that ball, it would probably get a lower grit on it and used as my next ball up as I move left. Have a good one.