Hey Guys! Lots of comments questioning the V02 Max scores in the video. My hope is to do a follow up video where I retest at another clinic to double check my score. Hopefully this can provide some clarity on my score and help resolve some of the questions/concerns that have been raised in the comments. So stay tuned for that! As always, thanks for watching and supporting the channel. Appreciate y'all.
How is he not able to run in Zone 2 if his VO2 Max is in the 50's? I would expect a person in the top 2% of fitness to at least be able to jog at Zone 2 HR.
It might be related to running efficiency, although he has high vo2 max, he can not efficiently convert the o2 input in zone 2 to running. It could also be wrong vo2 max measurement, as stated in other comments.
I don't know the specifics of the vo2max test but it's possible that running efficiency and running economy is just something he doesn't practice. He may be more robust in the higher echelons of cardiovascular output but doesn't train running endurance at all. Ie maybe he's a swimmer or a cyclist. Kind of how people typically are a runner or a cyclist and don't know how to swim. You wouldnt say omg that elite cyclist has a vo2max of 73 why can't he swim 4 x 50m lengths in a row.
@@theccft The device I think they are using (VO2 Master Pro) has been the subject of at least one study and found to be "good enough": www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7523887/ Impossible to say from the video how well the calibration and test were conducted.
please go get retested at another gym or show what your watch is estimating. There is no way those number are accurate. If they were you would have no problems running in Zone 2. Also at 150 BPM you would be running way faster!
I agree with everything you said except for the last. Heart rate isn’t really directly related to speed and is completely possible to have a slow pace while at 150bpm
yup, there's a reason he didn't show what VO2 max estimate his watch was giving him - even though it's an estimate, it'd still be nowhere near 60 for running
I can run a 16:52 5km and my VO2 max is around 60 and the second guy's VO2 max was 63.4, are you sure that's correct ?! According to the VDOT calculator with a VO2 max of around 63.4 you'd be able to run around 16:15 5 km !
Just cuz you have a VO2 max of 60 doesn't mean you have the muscles to do anything with it. It's mostly genetic. So while you won't ever run run a 16 minute 5km with a VO2 max of 40, just because you have one that's 70 doesn't mean you can.
agreed, it may be something to do with the fact that their test is conducted at lower speed with incline with walking in the beginning stages, whereas traditional VO2max texts are done with much higher speeds and without incline on treadmills, or on stationary bikes. I say this because walking incline VO2max tests tend to usually give a much higher result than purely running/cycling due to the fact that most people are FAR more conditioned for walking than running/cycling musculature-wise due to walking more frequently and for longer in their daily lives. The test accuracy itself might not be the issue, just the fact that we are used to comparing VO2max test results between purely running on 0-0.5 incline treadmills as opposed to incline increase.
@@fountainwater9 Wait is this true!? Super interesting actually. My watch estimates (I know, grain of salt) show a higher VO2 max when I walk than when I run too. Maybe wind resistance or something also plays a role? Is there a conversion table or a paper somewhere on this?
Everyone: just having a high vo2 max does not make you fast. Just because youre taking in oxygen and using it does not mean youre using it EFFICIENTLY. Its very easy for me to increase my cycling power by 25% during the summer with almost no change in my vo2 max, this is due to a change in my body's efficiency.
This needs to be said. As an 800m runner doing high mileage, my vo2 max is pushing 64. Nevertheless, I can barely go under 19 in a 5k because there's simply so much more to it than that.
Good point..but you have to have a baseline fitness to get to a high VO2 max. These guys don't have it. And maybe they were cranking out 33 min 10ks at some point in their life; but I don't see it.
If you want to run in zone2 (way below LT2) you should be able to speak in full sentences. You wanted to be able to speak only a few words, which is closer to LT2 (lactate threshold). You should be able to have a conversation with a buddy if you're at zone2 without feeling too much out of breath. Instead of walking, you can also shorten your stride length and run with really short babysteps (especially in uphills this is effective at bringing HR down and still be running).
@@zber9043 I guess 60 is maybe bit low for an Olympian (even in the 1500m) but your criticism is right. The measuring device is suboptimal, VO2max is best measured in an laboratory setup. If you have any evidence for a high performance athlete with low oxygen intake, I would love to see that.
obviously vo2 max doesnt mean you'll be the best at everything. But simply, put a guy with a vo2 max of 70, versus a guy with a vo2 max at 20 in a 3200m race, and I would bet 100% of the time that the person with the vo2 max of 70 would beat the person with the vo2 max of 20
GOOD EFFORT! VO2 testing is tricky. If you are a runner you will test higher while running. If you are a cyclist you test better cycling. Going to swimming for training and then testing running? NOPE, not going to be good!
My VO2 max is 42.3. Solid score guys. This video is perfect for me as I’m looking to improve my score. For fitness and as mentioned in the video, having a long and healthy life span. That’s priceless to me.
if you look at the guy's tablet, the maximum speed reached was 4.2mph, that is an absolute snails pace even for running on incline it's around 14mins per mile pace lol - there is absolutely no way in hell that his VO2 max is even anywhere near 50 let alone 60
man, i love your guys videos! I starting training for VO2 max with 3 days zone 2 and 1 day zone 5 and hit the same issues you did! Also had problems hitting zone 5 "enjoably" landed on rowing as best. Gonna try playing some sports for zone 5 from now on!
I've been putting in a lot of effort into my running and managed to increase my VO2 Max from 39 to 45 in 4 months. However, I've hit a bit of a roadblock after reaching 45. I recently injured my inner shin, so I've had to stop my VO2 Max training for the time being. My plan now is to focus on Zone 2 aerobic and endurance training, with one VO2 Max session every two weeks.
As a cyclist I have met heaps of ex runners that said they wished they had incorporated some cycling into their training earlier so they could still get endurance and high intensity workouts on the bike to avoid injury. You might consider an indoor set up, that way you can watch you tube or a movie while doing the so called zone 2. I use ROUVY with a 25 year old bike.
Love the video! You guys do a great job with training and the video style is great. Little thing: either you guys have absolutely insane genetics, or those VO2 numbers are off by a good bit. Honestly thats not important compared to how entertaining the video is. Cam, you're looking awesome!!
I’m a 43 years old male, I’ve been running leisurely consistently for over 12 years. There was a 3 months break in between due to injury and the odd 1/2 weeks off (very rarely). At my best, best I ran a 15Km race in 70 minutes. Nothing impressive, but quite happy with it. However, my VO2max never went above 47! It’s weird to me to see these numbers
15k in 70 is excellent! Out of curiosity for the V02 Max, were you taking professional tests or is that based off of a smart watch's estimate? Asking because my watch estimates my V02 Max at around 46-48 depending on the day.
These testing numbers are wrong. I would love to say it doesn't matter as long as you use the same test and they keep going up with consistent training..but the brother wouldn't drop that much while still training.
@@mitchellsteindler variability isn't the question here (although you can look it up). Of the 4 tests, none passed the smell test. They need to get tested somewhere else.
The accuracy highly depends on the lab, the test, and the skill of the technician. For example, at the Human Performance Lab at my local university, my VO2 max measured 58. But at a commercial lab marketed for athletes, it measured only 48 a week after bicycling 4200 miles in 23 days, when I would have expected my VO2 max to be at an all-time high. The Garmin Connect app (using data from Garmin Forerunner) usually says my VO2 max is between 53-57. Studies have shown Garmins and Apple Watches to be accurate to within 5%. These measurements seem credible to me (long-time ultra-distance cyclist, have run 70+ marathons with a PR of 3h3m at age 35 and just ran 3h32m two days ago at age 49). At this point, I trust smart watches for VO2 Max estimates more than labs, unless the lab is a respected laboratory in a rigorous scientific environment.
Anders Aukland (cross-country skier) measured 72.9 at age 50 Tommy Hughes (marathon runner) measured 65.4 at age 59 Ed Whitlock (marathon runner) measured 54 at age 81 Insane fitness
Interesting comparing HR monitors, watch and chest strap. I was surprised at how similar my Apple Watch was compared to a Garmin device & chest strap. Almost identical readings. My much older Garmin watch when reading HR by itself would lag efforts and was not as accurate without its chest strap.
Also, going back through the catalogue of videos here he already trains at a very intense level. There was no mention of his other training through this challenge. But if he swapped all the strength work out for cardio, his VO2 will have fallen due to a decrease in mitochondrial density within his muscles.
Don't know much about VO2 max, but doesn't the improved running efficiency from all the running sessions helps as well? You mainly trained your legs to be better at running and using oxygen. What was measured is how good your legs were at using oxygen. Brendan did more full body work, even leaning more to upper body with all the swimming. Which can be a reason why his VO2 max dropped if his training prior to the challenge was more lower body focused and then swifted away from using the legs.
I think you’re on the right path. It is my understanding that VO2 max for swimming does not equal VO2 max for running. Two very different forms of movement.
Admirable as the scientific curiosity is here, this kind of training is possible it's not a great idea for everyone. Even the elite of the elite know how destructive this can be. Measure your troponin levels for more hints on what you could be doing to yourself.
@@falsificationism50’s is likely what their watch is telling them, have they ever been professionally tested? Also, these guys aren’t as out of shape as you may think, they have been making fitness videos for almost a decade.
48M here... my apple watch VO2 Max is between 27.5 and 29.5 and I "run" a 33min 5k. I'm 5'8" 160 and in ok shape, I just don't get why it's so hard for me.
Your muscle fibers are probably better suited for sprinting. It's a fast run, but it might jsut be caused by efficient use of your "explosive" muscles. :) 5K in 33 is great! Well done :D
Not hating but there is no way his VO2 was above 60. I know people who hover around there and can do a sub 3 marathon and easy zone 1 to 2 are around an 8.15-915 pace. For people with a VO2 of around 60, 100 days of training would not change their VO2 or make them feel any more conditioned. That test has to be so off.
I can't wait for you guys to start doing threshold training!!! VO2 max is all fun and dandy but now you know how big your 'gas tank' is. Now how much 'gas' can you use? How long can you hold that level of near maximum exertion for? It's time to run a marathon
I’m a kayak/surf ski paddler, very fit, do races ranging from 1-2hrs. Train between 12-16 hours a week doing 80/20. My question regarding vo2 max, is the testing methods I see mostly involves running on a treadmill. Someone like myself who never does any jogging or running, would fail these tests miserably as my legs would give out way before I reach my vo2 max. Are there any other tests besides running to test vo2 max
I'm an outrigger paddler with a similar training schedule. I did my VO2 max test on a rower. Ideally I would have used the correct paddle attachment but I didn't have access to one. Although the body movements are different for rowing, it uses similar muscle groups to paddling at least. I can absolutely confirm that my vo2 max result from the rower would not translate to running, cycling or swimming.
They finally put out a new video, I really enjoy their content, but I don't enjoy the monthly sometimes two months of waiting for a video? It would be nice if they had bi-weekly videos, every two weeks.
Time to repeat the same training but in Tibet. Take numbers in Tibet, then train, then take Tibet numbers and also numbers at home. Can it even be improved? I think that the training is actually reinforcing homeostasis such that the 4 point min/max spread isn't that big of a deal, but rather, a demonstration of how hard it is to disrupt a state or condition your body has chosen to be stubborn about occupying, but in a good way.
Apart from the numbers the healthspan graph is also off. According to the graph he draws he was, through his training, able to travel back in time and elevate his health at the time of his own birth... 🤯
The title got me interested, i thought you were going to put yourself in a hole doing a VO2 max workout every day. Btw with 4 days exercise per week you dont need to fret about HR going above zone 2, the main thing with easy days is that they shouldn't leave you needing much recovery. A bit more of a steady effort can be better as long as you recover enough to do the quality workout, and dont injure yourself obviously. Just if you run 10+ hours a week it becomes more important to control easy days properly, thats the kind of training volume 80:20 is meant for.
Now that you have this shiny new VO2max, you should try running a marathon next. Or maybe a half marathon? It's the best stupid "midlife crisis" / "where is my fitness gone" / "my body can still do stuff" challenge you could possibly do. I mean... it doesn't get any more iconic than the marathon. Right?
I just wonder about the natural variability. If you do this test once every two weeks without changing your training or anything, how much does it fluctuate? To have a guess if this improvement was actually significant or not.
how do the vo2 max tests on a treadmill work? surely a runner with a vo2 max of X would score higher than a rower with a vo2 max of X when performed on a treadmill?
How long did it take for you to move from incline walk zone 2 training to actual running outside ? I am facing the same problem. I have got to walk to stay in my zone 2 HR.
walk more or keep it to a really slow jog. as a distance runner my zone 2 started out at about 9:00 pace but I built up a lot of miles running slow at a low heart rate over the summer and can keep the same heart rate at 7:20-7:30 pace now
@@owenringjust curious how long that jump from 9 into the 7s took you? I currently do about a 9min/mile half marathon and just curious about a possible time frame? Also currently training about 6 days a week(for triathlon)
The science of running is very fascinating 😄 I run a 10k 6,30 min/km, and my Hr shoots to 170bpm ish but it is still comfortably hard. I add another minute and a half and still I can barely keep it under 150 bpm.
Please try a different test at an better laboratory. These numbers are certainly not correct. Maybe try a lab were they take blood test during the running.
There's no way either of you have v02 max in the 60s. One of you guys did a video to run a 5 minute mile and didn't come close. Someone with a v02 max of 60 is expected to run a mile in 4:30 to 5:00 minutes. The bald guy ran 6:40 on the mile after intensive training for 8 weeks. That mile time puts your estimated V02 at around 50
I have a v02 max of around 50 and I could run a 6:00 min mile (but I am a mod 40s former 800 runner with good running efficiency). Their numbers are fantasy. Take 20 points off and they are in the right ball park.
Yeah you def were not in zone two when you were questioning it around the 5 min mark of the video. Not sure exactly how old you are, but assuming you're 32, your zone 2 thr is between 112 and 131. Maybe you're going to address this in the video, haven't watched the whole thing yet. I'm 42 and zone two for me is walking at a slight incline. I can't jog slow enough to stay in zone two. I probably could, but it's annoying and slower than a walk.
So how did you even calculate your zones? 142 seems really low, if you're running at 188bpm during a short VO2Max test. My guess is that your actual zone 2 is the 150's, considering you could still talk at 160.
@@TattooedDancer91 Yes. It has been thoroughly disproven for over half a century and nobody knows where the formula even came from. What seems to be the first actual scientific paper (Fox et al) promoting the equation, has shoddy citations for where the equation came from and their data actually proves that it's inaccurate. They had an average error of 21 bpm in a data set of only 34 individuals and over 20% of them had an HRMax above 220. Every single equation for HRMax prediction out there, has a huge error margin. An actual test has a margin of only 2 bpm. The most accurate equation in 205-(0.685 x age), but that still has a huge error and ignores that fact that HRMax also depends on the activity and on things like gender and possibly even ethnicity.
Just run until it’s difficult and then push yourself three times a week for half an hour and do sprints once/twice a week. This guy seemed more interested in looking at his watch the whole time
Thats really bad advice. When you run until its get difficult and then also do sprints you do not build an endurance base and probably not progressing and end up with an injury. Best to also run slow in zone 2 to build and endurance base. Also to keep it fun. Why always train hard.
@ because he’s still young, you get more out of exercise when it’s harder. I’m not an expert but the goal of this video was to improve vo2 max and I think he could have done better.
@danplove97 you do not get more out of exercise when its harder. Your not an expert. You have to build base to do good interval sessions. If you go hard every training you never recover well to be recovered and get a good interval session. Does not matter what age. You also have to do different kinds of training to progress.
@ All I said is three days a week do cardio for half an hour and once or twice a week do sprints. I could have gone into more detail but I thought what I was saying would be obvious. That’s not that much really, I think it’s important to push yourself. Obviously not to an extreme level. Sweating and out of breath is what I was getting at. Not the guy in the video who was jogging at walking pace.
It was mistake for his brother to train his VO2 max with swiming, while checking it with runnig. Those are different spotrs with diferent techniques. If you did runnig and start cycling, or oposite way, you going to have different VO2 mesurements for both sports. That's why you are not seeing any professional to train for the one sport by doing 80% of any other sport. * For better running you can and need to do some other training then running, but definitely not big part of the main sport you thrain for.
Zone training is bs unless you’re already super trained at the specific cardio you’re doing. Too much reliance on numbers, when all we need is a mix of intensity. Easy runs should feel easy. Hard runs should feel hard. Ignore the heart rate
Why would you train swimming for a running Vo2max test though, it does not make any sense :) great shape both of you guys anyway, just different tests for different sports is required :)
The average VO2max of sedentary males is 30-40. These guys have been doing fitness challenges for years, most of which have a result of improving their cardiorespiratory fitness. Having a VO2max in the low 60s is totally realistic and actually makes sense for who they are. Not sure why so many people are skeptical
Why should one only train in Zone 2 and 5? What about 3 and 4? It think there is nothing magical about Zone 2 so that you can run outside and improve your health even when you stay a bit above Zone 2 at the beginning. Over time its most probably the best way to train different types of cardio and intensity.
Is there research on that? I understood the best approach was a combination of hard and easy, 75% easy, was optimal. That fits with the zone 2 and 5 recommendations
I cringed at the mouth breathing 03:36. nasal breathing would do you guys a world of improvement. Breath: The New Science of a Lost Art by James Nestor is a great starting point.
![I Tried the CHEAT CODE for Losing Belly Fat - [60 Day Test]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QGK0lMVT9NY/mqdefault.jpg)
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Hey Guys! Lots of comments questioning the V02 Max scores in the video. My hope is to do a follow up video where I retest at another clinic to double check my score. Hopefully this can provide some clarity on my score and help resolve some of the questions/concerns that have been raised in the comments. So stay tuned for that! As always, thanks for watching and supporting the channel. Appreciate y'all.
How is he not able to run in Zone 2 if his VO2 Max is in the 50's? I would expect a person in the top 2% of fitness to at least be able to jog at Zone 2 HR.
It might be related to running efficiency, although he has high vo2 max, he can not efficiently convert the o2 input in zone 2 to running. It could also be wrong vo2 max measurement, as stated in other comments.
I was thinking the same thing. I don't trust the VO2 calculators in this vid 😂
I run a sub 20 minute 5k with a 54-55 VO2 max
My vo2max is 47 but I can run in true Zone 2, doing jt for years. Yep, I wonder what his 5k time is. Should be automatically below 20mins
I don't know the specifics of the vo2max test but it's possible that running efficiency and running economy is just something he doesn't practice. He may be more robust in the higher echelons of cardiovascular output but doesn't train running endurance at all. Ie maybe he's a swimmer or a cyclist.
Kind of how people typically are a runner or a cyclist and don't know how to swim.
You wouldnt say omg that elite cyclist has a vo2max of 73 why can't he swim 4 x 50m lengths in a row.
Those vo2 max numbers are complete fantasy lmao
right, they might as well get the numbers from a cheap smartwatch 😂
Agreed. The wireless vo2 device looks like garbage. Real testers are hooked up to large sensors and machines.
@@theccft The device I think they are using (VO2 Master Pro) has been the subject of at least one study and found to be "good enough": www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7523887/ Impossible to say from the video how well the calibration and test were conducted.
These portable devices have been studied compared to metabolic carts and have been shown to be within 1-2% accuracy.
These two have been doing fitness challenges for years, not super surprising that they have strong cardiorespiratory systems
No way both your VO2 is above 60
my thoughts exactly, how are they measuring it?
HA! Above 60 my ass.
please go get retested at another gym or show what your watch is estimating. There is no way those number are accurate. If they were you would have no problems running in Zone 2. Also at 150 BPM you would be running way faster!
I agree with everything you said except for the last. Heart rate isn’t really directly related to speed and is completely possible to have a slow pace while at 150bpm
yup, there's a reason he didn't show what VO2 max estimate his watch was giving him - even though it's an estimate, it'd still be nowhere near 60 for running
I can run a 16:52 5km and my VO2 max is around 60 and the second guy's VO2 max was 63.4, are you sure that's correct ?! According to the VDOT calculator with a VO2 max of around 63.4 you'd be able to run around 16:15 5 km !
i think the score is way too high for someone who needs to walk to be in zone 2. 60 vo2max ez 5k is under 20 so this is all wrong
Thought the same thing, VO2 max @63 is elite athlete level
Just cuz you have a VO2 max of 60 doesn't mean you have the muscles to do anything with it. It's mostly genetic. So while you won't ever run run a 16 minute 5km with a VO2 max of 40, just because you have one that's 70 doesn't mean you can.
Yeah it did seem way off. My vo2 max is around 52 and I can jog in zone 2 fine.
According to Matt Fitzgerald there are great runners out there with pedestrian VO2 max scores.
A lot of people are calling BS your guys V02 max. Can you guys do a follow up video addressing this
Awesome video, skeptical of the test accuracy tho, these are professional athlete type numbers
agreed, it may be something to do with the fact that their test is conducted at lower speed with incline with walking in the beginning stages, whereas traditional VO2max texts are done with much higher speeds and without incline on treadmills, or on stationary bikes. I say this because walking incline VO2max tests tend to usually give a much higher result than purely running/cycling due to the fact that most people are FAR more conditioned for walking than running/cycling musculature-wise due to walking more frequently and for longer in their daily lives. The test accuracy itself might not be the issue, just the fact that we are used to comparing VO2max test results between purely running on 0-0.5 incline treadmills as opposed to incline increase.
Genetics 😂
True but they have been doing fitness and diet challenges for years now.
Sorry to say this but that’s not that elite a really good pro cyclist is around 80 and the best in the world are like 91
@@fountainwater9 Wait is this true!? Super interesting actually. My watch estimates (I know, grain of salt) show a higher VO2 max when I walk than when I run too. Maybe wind resistance or something also plays a role? Is there a conversion table or a paper somewhere on this?
Everyone: just having a high vo2 max does not make you fast. Just because youre taking in oxygen and using it does not mean youre using it EFFICIENTLY. Its very easy for me to increase my cycling power by 25% during the summer with almost no change in my vo2 max, this is due to a change in my body's efficiency.
Finally, someone with a brain.
This comment needs to be at the top
This needs to be said. As an 800m runner doing high mileage, my vo2 max is pushing 64. Nevertheless, I can barely go under 19 in a 5k because there's simply so much more to it than that.
you are the only one who gets it
Good point..but you have to have a baseline fitness to get to a high VO2 max. These guys don't have it. And maybe they were cranking out 33 min 10ks at some point in their life; but I don't see it.
the brotherly rivalry and snark is like half the reason I click these videos so fast
If you want to run in zone2 (way below LT2) you should be able to speak in full sentences. You wanted to be able to speak only a few words, which is closer to LT2 (lactate threshold). You should be able to have a conversation with a buddy if you're at zone2 without feeling too much out of breath. Instead of walking, you can also shorten your stride length and run with really short babysteps (especially in uphills this is effective at bringing HR down and still be running).
these v02 max scores are too high for these guys.
I cannot disagree more. Impossible that the first guy initially hit 57, what a place to start from (if you are a real athlete).
there are athletes going to the olympics in the 1500 who have a v02 max in the mid 60s. These numbers are BS.
@@zber9043 I guess 60 is maybe bit low for an Olympian (even in the 1500m) but your criticism is right. The measuring device is suboptimal, VO2max is best measured in an laboratory setup. If you have any evidence for a high performance athlete with low oxygen intake, I would love to see that.
the VO2max world record holder couldn’t compete at any serious level… you guys need to stop thinking high VO2max automatically means high performance
obviously vo2 max doesnt mean you'll be the best at everything. But simply, put a guy with a vo2 max of 70, versus a guy with a vo2 max at 20 in a 3200m race, and I would bet 100% of the time that the person with the vo2 max of 70 would beat the person with the vo2 max of 20
GOOD EFFORT! VO2 testing is tricky. If you are a runner you will test higher while running. If you are a cyclist you test better cycling. Going to swimming for training and then testing running? NOPE, not going to be good!
My VO2 max is 42.3. Solid score guys. This video is perfect for me as I’m looking to improve my score. For fitness and as mentioned in the video, having a long and healthy life span. That’s priceless to me.
how old are you ?
@@louisant1817 I am in the 26-35 bracket
if you look at the guy's tablet, the maximum speed reached was 4.2mph, that is an absolute snails pace even for running on incline it's around 14mins per mile pace lol - there is absolutely no way in hell that his VO2 max is even anywhere near 50 let alone 60
Finally a video where both of you train for the same task.
man, i love your guys videos! I starting training for VO2 max with 3 days zone 2 and 1 day zone 5 and hit the same issues you did! Also had problems hitting zone 5 "enjoably" landed on rowing as best. Gonna try playing some sports for zone 5 from now on!
to add 5 points in 100 days to VO2 max, especially at this level is not realistic. Not with training VO2max once per week and only 3 zone 2 trainings
most research has shown a 5-15% increase in 3 months with this exact training model…
@@eijazkassam7701 in untrained individuals not at higher level athlets
I want to see you guys do Nordic curls! Working on it now and it’s brutal. Hoping to one day do 1 single rep
Up
The dust under that treadmill 😬
I've been putting in a lot of effort into my running and managed to increase my VO2 Max from 39 to 45 in 4 months. However, I've hit a bit of a roadblock after reaching 45. I recently injured my inner shin, so I've had to stop my VO2 Max training for the time being. My plan now is to focus on Zone 2 aerobic and endurance training, with one VO2 Max session every two weeks.
As a cyclist I have met heaps of ex runners that said they wished they had incorporated some cycling into their training earlier so they could still get endurance and high intensity workouts on the bike to avoid injury. You might consider an indoor set up, that way you can watch you tube or a movie while doing the so called zone 2. I use ROUVY with a 25 year old bike.
@Rightouttheback 👍
Love the video! You guys do a great job with training and the video style is great. Little thing: either you guys have absolutely insane genetics, or those VO2 numbers are off by a good bit. Honestly thats not important compared to how entertaining the video is. Cam, you're looking awesome!!
According to my garmin, my VO2 is 53 and I have no problem staying in zone 2 . The zoning ain’t zoning ?!?
I’m a 43 years old male, I’ve been running leisurely consistently for over 12 years. There was a 3 months break in between due to injury and the odd 1/2 weeks off (very rarely).
At my best, best I ran a 15Km race in 70 minutes. Nothing impressive, but quite happy with it.
However, my VO2max never went above 47! It’s weird to me to see these numbers
15k in 70 is excellent! Out of curiosity for the V02 Max, were you taking professional tests or is that based off of a smart watch's estimate? Asking because my watch estimates my V02 Max at around 46-48 depending on the day.
They aren't correct. Although I would've though yours would be higher than 47? 15k in 70 mins is pretty good IMO.
Great video as usual guys!
That "congratulations" at the end sent me :D
Great video guys!
These testing numbers are wrong. I would love to say it doesn't matter as long as you use the same test and they keep going up with consistent training..but the brother wouldn't drop that much while still training.
Whats the expected variability for vO2 max testing?
@@mitchellsteindler variability isn't the question here (although you can look it up). Of the 4 tests, none passed the smell test. They need to get tested somewhere else.
@@koreyb99 so whats the problem? They used standard equipment and did a standard test.
The accuracy highly depends on the lab, the test, and the skill of the technician.
For example, at the Human Performance Lab at my local university, my VO2 max measured 58. But at a commercial lab marketed for athletes, it measured only 48 a week after bicycling 4200 miles in 23 days, when I would have expected my VO2 max to be at an all-time high.
The Garmin Connect app (using data from Garmin Forerunner) usually says my VO2 max is between 53-57. Studies have shown Garmins and Apple Watches to be accurate to within 5%. These measurements seem credible to me (long-time ultra-distance cyclist, have run 70+ marathons with a PR of 3h3m at age 35 and just ran 3h32m two days ago at age 49).
At this point, I trust smart watches for VO2 Max estimates more than labs, unless the lab is a respected laboratory in a rigorous scientific environment.
@@user-er8fs7pz5o interesting!
great video, also clever how the ad was fully integrated into the video!! Well done y'all!
What ad??
Anders Aukland (cross-country skier) measured 72.9 at age 50
Tommy Hughes (marathon runner) measured 65.4 at age 59
Ed Whitlock (marathon runner) measured 54 at age 81
Insane fitness
Funny to see Tommy getting a mention. Tried to tuck in after him on a half. Dropped me. Very gritty runner.
Interesting comparing HR monitors, watch and chest strap. I was surprised at how similar my Apple Watch was compared to a Garmin device & chest strap. Almost identical readings. My much older Garmin watch when reading HR by itself would lag efforts and was not as accurate without its chest strap.
So, any explanation about the drop in Brandon's score?
Swimming VO2 does not equal running VO2. So by concentrating on swimming VO2 improvement his running VO2 suffered.
Is it actually normal variation
Swimming is a different activity, different muscle engagement. Different muscles require different levels of oxygen.
Also, going back through the catalogue of videos here he already trains at a very intense level. There was no mention of his other training through this challenge. But if he swapped all the strength work out for cardio, his VO2 will have fallen due to a decrease in mitochondrial density within his muscles.
He's a good brother, that's what.
This is what you call a good brother. We should all have egoless siblings as great as him, willing to take the dive.
Don't know much about VO2 max, but doesn't the improved running efficiency from all the running sessions helps as well? You mainly trained your legs to be better at running and using oxygen. What was measured is how good your legs were at using oxygen.
Brendan did more full body work, even leaning more to upper body with all the swimming. Which can be a reason why his VO2 max dropped if his training prior to the challenge was more lower body focused and then swifted away from using the legs.
not necessarily.
I think you’re on the right path. It is my understanding that VO2 max for swimming does not equal VO2 max for running. Two very different forms of movement.
@@joelhoeksema yes I would agree. You can have a different VO2Max based on activity. My cycling is different than my running.
Admirable as the scientific curiosity is here, this kind of training is possible it's not a great idea for everyone. Even the elite of the elite know how destructive this can be. Measure your troponin levels for more hints on what you could be doing to yourself.
i would bet my life your vo2max is under 40 and not 60. You have trouble being in zone 2 with 60 vo2max
I would bet my life you don't understand much about VO2 max
Yeah 60 seems REALLY REALLY high. I know marathon runners (very good ones who have run their entire lives) who are only in the high 50s.
@@falsificationism50’s is likely what their watch is telling them, have they ever been professionally tested? Also, these guys aren’t as out of shape as you may think, they have been making fitness videos for almost a decade.
48M here... my apple watch VO2 Max is between 27.5 and 29.5 and I "run" a 33min 5k. I'm 5'8" 160 and in ok shape, I just don't get why it's so hard for me.
Your muscle fibers are probably better suited for sprinting. It's a fast run, but it might jsut be caused by efficient use of your "explosive" muscles. :) 5K in 33 is great! Well done :D
@@TattooedDancer91 hah maybe you’re on to something I am a good sprinter!
you’re apple watch is wrong, that’s why
Great editing
Great video! Super valuable
Very funny and useful. I am trying to improve my VO2max. I think I am doing too much HIIT and not enough Z2.
Thing is, in Outlive Peter Attia claims that Zone 2 training is between 70 and 85% of your maximum heart rate
Not hating but there is no way his VO2 was above 60. I know people who hover around there and can do a sub 3 marathon and easy zone 1 to 2 are around an 8.15-915 pace. For people with a VO2 of around 60, 100 days of training would not change their VO2 or make them feel any more conditioned. That test has to be so off.
Im here for the brotherly shit talking 😆
I can't wait for you guys to start doing threshold training!!! VO2 max is all fun and dandy but now you know how big your 'gas tank' is. Now how much 'gas' can you use? How long can you hold that level of near maximum exertion for? It's time to run a marathon
I’m a kayak/surf ski paddler, very fit, do races ranging from 1-2hrs. Train between 12-16 hours a week doing 80/20.
My question regarding vo2 max, is the testing methods I see mostly involves running on a treadmill. Someone like myself who never does any jogging or running, would fail these tests miserably as my legs would give out way before I reach my vo2 max. Are there any other tests besides running to test vo2 max
I'm an outrigger paddler with a similar training schedule.
I did my VO2 max test on a rower. Ideally I would have used the correct paddle attachment but I didn't have access to one. Although the body movements are different for rowing, it uses similar muscle groups to paddling at least.
I can absolutely confirm that my vo2 max result from the rower would not translate to running, cycling or swimming.
Yes, you can do the rest running, cycling, rowing..
They finally put out a new video, I really enjoy their content, but I don't enjoy the monthly sometimes two months of waiting for a video? It would be nice if they had bi-weekly videos, every two weeks.
For sure the most fun zone 5 training is climbing on a mountain bike
hockey is really fun too but not often I play that
Love it when I collapse at the top of the hill at max heart rate haha. Feel like I've really accomplished something.
Good information for someone finding out that hes vo2 max is only 37 !! Im like fuuuck and need to improve 😂
Cam finally beat the inferior clone allegations in the Les Enfants Terribles project
Have these guys run a 5k or a 1mile for time, and calculate a VO2 max from the time. There is no way that these are guys are that elite in fitness.
I get that I have a higher vo2 max so it may be harder to gain, but like it took me almost two years to get from 63 to 66.
Time to repeat the same training but in Tibet.
Take numbers in Tibet, then train, then take Tibet numbers and also numbers at home.
Can it even be improved? I think that the training is actually reinforcing homeostasis such that the 4 point min/max spread isn't that big of a deal, but rather, a demonstration of how hard it is to disrupt a state or condition your body has chosen to be stubborn about occupying, but in a good way.
Apart from the numbers the healthspan graph is also off. According to the graph he draws he was, through his training, able to travel back in time and elevate his health at the time of his own birth... 🤯
The title got me interested, i thought you were going to put yourself in a hole doing a VO2 max workout every day.
Btw with 4 days exercise per week you dont need to fret about HR going above zone 2, the main thing with easy days is that they shouldn't leave you needing much recovery. A bit more of a steady effort can be better as long as you recover enough to do the quality workout, and dont injure yourself obviously. Just if you run 10+ hours a week it becomes more important to control easy days properly, thats the kind of training volume 80:20 is meant for.
Now that you have this shiny new VO2max, you should try running a marathon next. Or maybe a half marathon? It's the best stupid "midlife crisis" / "where is my fitness gone" / "my body can still do stuff" challenge you could possibly do. I mean... it doesn't get any more iconic than the marathon. Right?
Seems like just about everyone writing a comment is skeptical of the vo2 numbers…
I just wonder about the natural variability. If you do this test once every two weeks without changing your training or anything, how much does it fluctuate? To have a guess if this improvement was actually significant or not.
how do the vo2 max tests on a treadmill work? surely a runner with a vo2 max of X would score higher than a rower with a vo2 max of X when performed on a treadmill?
That vo2 score is wrong
I loved the Doc's hat...
How long did it take for you to move from incline walk zone 2 training to actual running outside ? I am facing the same problem. I have got to walk to stay in my zone 2 HR.
walk more or keep it to a really slow jog. as a distance runner my zone 2 started out at about 9:00 pace but I built up a lot of miles running slow at a low heart rate over the summer and can keep the same heart rate at 7:20-7:30 pace now
@@owenringjust curious how long that jump from 9 into the 7s took you? I currently do about a 9min/mile half marathon and just curious about a possible time frame? Also currently training about 6 days a week(for triathlon)
The science of running is very fascinating 😄 I run a 10k 6,30 min/km, and my Hr shoots to 170bpm ish but it is still comfortably hard. I add another minute and a half and still I can barely keep it under 150 bpm.
@@jcgales2254 I started my training cycle in the middle of June so almost 4 months now
You should make a video about trying to lucid dream.
so your brother didn't do any VO2 Max focused training in that duration right?
Please try a different test at an better laboratory. These numbers are certainly not correct. Maybe try a lab were they take blood test during the running.
8:55 just cycle for zone 2 trainings, if it's difficult to do runninig
It's definitely a lot more fun than walking on a treadmill and you can do this for a lot longer, for hours after training
11:46 I don't think you can play basketball for zone 5 training)
Your scores are wrong, you should check them somewhere else.
Where he said he was struggling with zone 2 he was on a hill. And if you don't regularly do zone 2 running the whole time isn't easy.
I think you have your zones mixed up. Zone 2 VO2 Max training is not based on heartrate.
Great video but the way in which you measured V02max is wrong. Hence why your score were just silly
There's no way either of you have v02 max in the 60s. One of you guys did a video to run a 5 minute mile and didn't come close. Someone with a v02 max of 60 is expected to run a mile in 4:30 to 5:00 minutes. The bald guy ran 6:40 on the mile after intensive training for 8 weeks. That mile time puts your estimated V02 at around 50
I have a v02 max of around 50 and I could run a 6:00 min mile (but I am a mod 40s former 800 runner with good running efficiency). Their numbers are fantasy. Take 20 points off and they are in the right ball park.
What VO2 max did your apple watch predict?
How does one became a longevity expert at 45 ? 😂
I'm guessing the same way someone can be an expert veterinarian without being an animal 😂
Guys, I agree with the other commenters. Those VO2 max number seem like complete fantasy. Sorry.
You should get retested at a reputable lab.
and why do you think this…
@@eijazkassam7701 because the numbers they are posting are close to what Olympians or national class athletes would have
My zone 2 is at a heart rate of 161 according to my last vo2 max test
no has ever thought running is hard let's see if running STAIRS will be better
Your brother has become fitter and his running has become more efficient which tends to lower your vo2Max .
Was that a basketball NB pinnie?
Wasn't Brendan also lifting like Sulek during this?
yup, which explains why his VO2max dropped. finally someone who thinks things through 😂
Yeah you def were not in zone two when you were questioning it around the 5 min mark of the video. Not sure exactly how old you are, but assuming you're 32, your zone 2 thr is between 112 and 131.
Maybe you're going to address this in the video, haven't watched the whole thing yet.
I'm 42 and zone two for me is walking at a slight incline. I can't jog slow enough to stay in zone two. I probably could, but it's annoying and slower than a walk.
So how did you even calculate your zones? 142 seems really low, if you're running at 188bpm during a short VO2Max test. My guess is that your actual zone 2 is the 150's, considering you could still talk at 160.
Zone is calculated by age (220 - age)
@@TattooedDancer91 which is just wrong in so many ways...
@@ItsJakeTheBrake Do you disagree with maximum pulse (100%) is ca 220 minus age?
Yes
@@TattooedDancer91 Yes. It has been thoroughly disproven for over half a century and nobody knows where the formula even came from. What seems to be the first actual scientific paper (Fox et al) promoting the equation, has shoddy citations for where the equation came from and their data actually proves that it's inaccurate. They had an average error of 21 bpm in a data set of only 34 individuals and over 20% of them had an HRMax above 220.
Every single equation for HRMax prediction out there, has a huge error margin. An actual test has a margin of only 2 bpm.
The most accurate equation in 205-(0.685 x age), but that still has a huge error and ignores that fact that HRMax also depends on the activity and on things like gender and possibly even ethnicity.
Surely you understood that wrist HR monitoring is no where near as accurate as an external monitor around chest or arm
they are literally wearing chest straps
Just run until it’s difficult and then push yourself three times a week for half an hour and do sprints once/twice a week. This guy seemed more interested in looking at his watch the whole time
Thats really bad advice. When you run until its get difficult and then also do sprints you do not build an endurance base and probably not progressing and end up with an injury. Best to also run slow in zone 2 to build and endurance base. Also to keep it fun. Why always train hard.
@ because he’s still young, you get more out of exercise when it’s harder. I’m not an expert but the goal of this video was to improve vo2 max and I think he could have done better.
@danplove97 you do not get more out of exercise when its harder. Your not an expert. You have to build base to do good interval sessions. If you go hard every training you never recover well to be recovered and get a good interval session. Does not matter what age. You also have to do different kinds of training to progress.
@ All I said is three days a week do cardio for half an hour and once or twice a week do sprints. I could have gone into more detail but I thought what I was saying would be obvious.
That’s not that much really, I think it’s important to push yourself. Obviously not to an extreme level. Sweating and out of breath is what I was getting at. Not the guy in the video who was jogging at walking pace.
I can even see the difference in your face!
9:00 how did he get to that conclusion 😂
It was mistake for his brother to train his VO2 max with swiming, while checking it with runnig.
Those are different spotrs with diferent techniques.
If you did runnig and start cycling, or oposite way, you going to have different VO2 mesurements for both sports.
That's why you are not seeing any professional to train for the one sport by doing 80% of any other sport.
* For better running you can and need to do some other training then running, but definitely not big part of the main sport you thrain for.
wait, i might have missed something, did your brother do no training whatsoever? how did his decrease lol
Got a lovely VO2 max of 69 (😉)with a 5k PB of 16:02
That's really, REALLY impressive and a testament to putting in the work. Congrats!! Here's to a sub-16:00 in your future!
Zone training is bs unless you’re already super trained at the specific cardio you’re doing. Too much reliance on numbers, when all we need is a mix of intensity. Easy runs should feel easy. Hard runs should feel hard. Ignore the heart rate
Can someone please vacuum under the testing treadmill? Thanks in advance 😅
Why would you train swimming for a running Vo2max test though, it does not make any sense :) great shape both of you guys anyway, just different tests for different sports is required :)
The average VO2max of sedentary males is 30-40. These guys have been doing fitness challenges for years, most of which have a result of improving their cardiorespiratory fitness. Having a VO2max in the low 60s is totally realistic and actually makes sense for who they are. Not sure why so many people are skeptical
strange maybe it wasn't your brothers day or he didn't train for it well
omg. I just hit 20 the other day....
Yep, Zone 2 is pretty slow.
'There is NOBODY who can't get into the top 25% for their age and gender wrt VO2max'. erhm the other 75% of the people?
The other 75% are sitting on the couch and eating McDonalds
He isn't saying everyone can be in the top 25% at the same time, he's saying that any individual can reach that goal.
v02 max jumping 4 pts in 100 days?... dont think so bud
Why should one only train in Zone 2 and 5? What about 3 and 4? It think there is nothing magical about Zone 2 so that you can run outside and improve your health even when you stay a bit above Zone 2 at the beginning. Over time its most probably the best way to train different types of cardio and intensity.
Is there research on that? I understood the best approach was a combination of hard and easy, 75% easy, was optimal. That fits with the zone 2 and 5 recommendations
I cringed at the mouth breathing 03:36. nasal breathing would do you guys a world of improvement. Breath: The New Science of a Lost Art by James Nestor is a great starting point.
You're also getting hotter, so that's another bonus.
Sweet…..