The actual origins of this A-Fram Mainsheet system come from the German Mainsheet System. The 'German' system just means the sheet travels to the gooseneck then down where it is trimmed. There are a number of variations on the system that all have their benefits. But the major advantage is no matter where the traveler is the sheet is trimmed from the cabin top usually via one sheet. In this case, the physical traveler is removed and there is no need for the gooseneck attachment because there are attachments from the rear of the boom to the port and starboard aft points as well as in the middle of the aft which allows for the movement of the mainsheet to different attachment points, while still being controlled by the helm which is advantageous in solo or short-handed sailing situations. In this setup, there are two sheets used to control the tension on both points. It's an ingenious setup and works very well for different points of sail.
I've seen some people claim this is a variant of the German system and I don't think that's accurate. If anything the German system is simply a variant of a conventional mainsheet, and twin-sheeting systems should be considered their own thing. There aren't any significant similarities.
You could also credit the other french who designed the first canting wheel on a catamaran back in 2011 on the Alibi 54. Credit to Loic Goepfert! Thumbs up to these 2 frenchies!
How do you depower the sail in case you get a sudden unexpected gust? Would you need to loosen both ends of the a-frame mainsheet? Wouldn't that be slow and potentially dangerous?
Both sheets are lead to a central helm position, it’s quick and easy the way the system is set up. Not dangerous at all if you are sailing the boat properly.
Ingenious system. Balance has very good solutions. Experienced sailors. One question: Is there room for a Bimini top on the helm? I noticed the boom is pretty low. Thanks and congratulations for your boats
Not a Balance "innovation" its actually a very old system for boom control. Had this system on my boat 25 years ago and I copied if from an old gaffer that had it!
@@pierremitham2964 We never claimed this was a Balance invention. Phil specifically mentions in the video that we incorporated it from earlier catamaran designs.
Both mainsheets lead to a common helm position, you can release both simultaneously. Other boat builders do not have this same set up that Balance has.
Not sure if I understood properly Please correct me if I'm wrong.your on starboard tack.normally the starboard sheet would be carrying the load so you now need to load the port sheet to hold the boom in position. Unload and relocate the starboard sheet.now reload the starboard sheet. Unload the port sheet relocate reload I'm new position and then Adjust the loads I'm both sheets.sounds easy in 10_15kn Unsure about n stronger wind
That would only be the case when jibing downwind. Upwind you leave the blocks in their respective inboard transom positions and just trim them normally. Generally speaking, you will not be doing frequent short jibes in a cruising scenario especially not in heavy weather conditions.
What you're seeing is the inner core of a dyneema double braid line. When splicing an eye loop in a double braid line you have to taper the cover back. Since that end of the line never runs through a block it does not need the chafe resistance of the outer cover and the strength characteristics remain well within specs. This is common practice on all performance sailboats using dyneema lines.
Just so I know I'm seeing it correctly, it's two separate 2:1 sheets running up to the mast and back to the helm with separate clutches? Also, if you wanted to put a solar arch over the davits, would that interfere with this? Presumably you would need to leave a decent gap.
Yes, there are two mainsheets that both run to the helm. On the 526, you also have the option to install winches on the transom and trim the mainsheets from there if you prefer. A solar arch does not make sense, nor is it necessary, on a Balance 526. With our current 400w solar panels we can accommodate up to 2800w of solar on the hard top while still leaving walking space along the boom to access the mainsail stack pack. A solar arch would conflict with the mainsheet system and add unnecessary weight on the stern of the boat.
@@heisenbugz He's describing the ability to control the boom height, and therefore, the sail shape of the main. This is possible because of the triangulated set up of the dual mainsheets in the A-Frame design. You basically have total control of sail shape and boom location due to the ability to move the blocks and then trim the mainsheets.
Seems like lots of positives vs mainsheet /traveler system as explained. I'd want to get comfortable with how to quickly depower the main in the event of significant guests or wind changes (like a misjudged squall). Next time please show how the mainsheets are controlled (guessing there are two), and how quickly you could ease both. thanks!
Why was the photographers job to keep the camera on the presenter, rather than the system that was being demonstrated, especially when adjustments were being made. I score this vlog 2 out of 10.
I have to say, this is one of the few things I disagree with Phil on. In theory it seems great, but in practice, it's actually pretty terrible and not safe in my opinion. To dump the main quickly in a big gust, you essentially have to dump both of them to effectively depower the boat. This can be confusing for crew with two sheets and take time which is critical in those situations. Don't just take my word for it, let Shane of youngbarnacles who has lots of experience with this system explain the problems. ua-cam.com/video/-woIQ2nI-3Q/v-deo.html
Forgive me, this is just not true. You do not have to release the leeward sheet to "dump the mainsail" at all. Anytime you wish to depower the boat, or turn down, you simply ease the windward sheet. If someone has an issue with this system they do not know what they are doing, or the system is designed improperly. FYI: this same system was used on every single Catana 471 and 431 ever built. I have never heard of anyone struggling with it. There are three big things I do not like about a traveler system: 1. It complicates sailing and means you have to have a track and cars and extra winches and sheets. It is more time consuming to gybe for sure. 2. A traveller system means you cannot control the swing of the boom in bouncing conditions anytime the mainsail is not trimmed in tight. This means you must attach a preventer to the leeward hull to stop yourself by being driven crazy with your banging boom. In our the V system the mainsail is always vanged. And you do not have to detach the preventer to gybe. The one caveat is that if you wish to sail downwind for a long period of time we sometimes "vang" the boom to the leeward hull like a preventer to get better mainsail trim angle. In this instance you must attach and detach the leeward sheet before you gybe. I can say that in most day sailing and hopping conditions we do not do this. 3. The V system allows you superb control over the leach of the mainsail and enables you to twist it or flatten it to perfection if you know what you are doing. A traveler does not allow you to adjust twist nearly as well. Alas, another video I must do! Stay in balance!
@@balancecatamarans I agree with some of those points. However when the boom is much past the centerline and the leeward sheet pull becomes vertical or past vertical i.e. facing the same direction as the windward sheet, easing the windward sheet isn't going to do much unless you have the leeward sheet very slacked. If you have it very loose and ease the windward side, then you can have large shock loading happening as that slack is taken up quickly. Again, Shayne Young from @youngbarnacles who is a well known multihull racer and rigger demonstrates this on his Catana 42 with the A frame system in the video I linked to. Every system is a set of compromises, but a traveller setup is a pretty well tried and tested one.
@@kenyonstewart7120 i watched the other video too and was initially concerned about this system as the one in the other video doesn’t look great, however I noticed the balance has 2 distinct differences which look like they would help to alleviate the issues described: 1. You can change the attachment positions of the two sheets. This would make the angle of the leeward sheet so wide that you should always be able to dump the main from the windward sheet. 2 Although it’s not shown on this video, it looks like the two sheets on the balance are controlled together at the helm as opposed to two different positions, so trimming would be easier as you could more easily adjust both sheets at the same time. Would be nice to see another video showing how the balance is trimmed to confirm 👍🏼
The simple solutions are always the best, great presentation Phill, cheers mate.
Thanks Mister Phil - yes, great presentation ! Greetings from Bordeaux / France !
Many thanks!
The actual origins of this A-Fram Mainsheet system come from the German Mainsheet System. The 'German' system just means the sheet travels to the gooseneck then down where it is trimmed. There are a number of variations on the system that all have their benefits. But the major advantage is no matter where the traveler is the sheet is trimmed from the cabin top usually via one sheet.
In this case, the physical traveler is removed and there is no need for the gooseneck attachment because there are attachments from the rear of the boom to the port and starboard aft points as well as in the middle of the aft which allows for the movement of the mainsheet to different attachment points, while still being controlled by the helm which is advantageous in solo or short-handed sailing situations. In this setup, there are two sheets used to control the tension on both points.
It's an ingenious setup and works very well for different points of sail.
I've seen some people claim this is a variant of the German system and I don't think that's accurate. If anything the German system is simply a variant of a conventional mainsheet, and twin-sheeting systems should be considered their own thing.
There aren't any significant similarities.
You could also credit the other french who designed the first canting wheel on a catamaran back in 2011 on the Alibi 54. Credit to Loic Goepfert! Thumbs up to these 2 frenchies!
Another great explanation, Thanks 😎🏖🌴☀️🇦🇺
How do you depower the sail in case you get a sudden unexpected gust? Would you need to loosen both ends of the a-frame mainsheet? Wouldn't that be slow and potentially dangerous?
Both sheets are lead to a central helm position, it’s quick and easy the way the system is set up. Not dangerous at all if you are sailing the boat properly.
My dream boat
me too
Mine too
What can I say another great video.
Ingenious system. Balance has very good solutions. Experienced sailors. One question: Is there room for a Bimini top on the helm? I noticed the boom is pretty low. Thanks and congratulations for your boats
The helm has a pop-up bimini top already built it. It folds down flush into a recess in the hard top. The boom is high enough to clear it.
Not a Balance "innovation" its actually a very old system for boom control. Had this system on my boat 25 years ago and I copied if from an old gaffer that had it!
@@pierremitham2964 We never claimed this was a Balance invention. Phil specifically mentions in the video that we incorporated it from earlier catamaran designs.
@@andrewhodgdon2786 Great, sometimes some protection is weel come. Tks for the reply
Great system!
Looks good, but how do you de-power quickly.
Both mainsheets lead to a common helm position, you can release both simultaneously. Other boat builders do not have this same set up that Balance has.
Will it be the same system on the 442 and 482?
Yes
Not sure if I understood properly
Please correct me if I'm wrong.your on starboard tack.normally the starboard sheet would be carrying the load so you now need to load the port sheet to hold the boom in position. Unload and relocate the starboard sheet.now reload the starboard sheet. Unload the port sheet relocate reload I'm new position and then Adjust the loads I'm both sheets.sounds easy in 10_15kn Unsure about n stronger wind
That would only be the case when jibing downwind. Upwind you leave the blocks in their respective inboard transom positions and just trim them normally. Generally speaking, you will not be doing frequent short jibes in a cruising scenario especially not in heavy weather conditions.
If your sailing downwind and your boomed way out like wing and wing you still should put out a preventer line going to a block on the bow.
Phil, when will see more info on the 620? Very interested in that model. Also, do you offer any option of a rotating mast?
What is the significance of the short length of white rope that gets spliced into the blue main sheets?
What you're seeing is the inner core of a dyneema double braid line. When splicing an eye loop in a double braid line you have to taper the cover back. Since that end of the line never runs through a block it does not need the chafe resistance of the outer cover and the strength characteristics remain well within specs. This is common practice on all performance sailboats using dyneema lines.
a visual diagram mnight be good
Looks fine for long passages over open water, but it would be a nightmare short-tacking through a tight archipelago.
Just so I know I'm seeing it correctly, it's two separate 2:1 sheets running up to the mast and back to the helm with separate clutches?
Also, if you wanted to put a solar arch over the davits, would that interfere with this? Presumably you would need to leave a decent gap.
Yes, there are two mainsheets that both run to the helm. On the 526, you also have the option to install winches on the transom and trim the mainsheets from there if you prefer.
A solar arch does not make sense, nor is it necessary, on a Balance 526. With our current 400w solar panels we can accommodate up to 2800w of solar on the hard top while still leaving walking space along the boom to access the mainsail stack pack. A solar arch would conflict with the mainsheet system and add unnecessary weight on the stern of the boat.
Anyone know what it means to add more 'stretch' to that system?
Can you elaborate? It's not clear what you're asking.
@@andrewhodgdon2786 Described at 1:30 in the video. It isn't clear to me how you could control the amount of stretch after centering the main.
@@heisenbugz He's describing the ability to control the boom height, and therefore, the sail shape of the main. This is possible because of the triangulated set up of the dual mainsheets in the A-Frame design. You basically have total control of sail shape and boom location due to the ability to move the blocks and then trim the mainsheets.
Seems like lots of positives vs mainsheet /traveler system as explained. I'd want to get comfortable with how to quickly depower the main in the event of significant guests or wind changes (like a misjudged squall). Next time please show how the mainsheets are controlled (guessing there are two), and how quickly you could ease both. thanks!
Why was the photographers job to keep the camera on the presenter, rather than the system that was being demonstrated, especially when adjustments were being made. I score this vlog 2 out of 10.
That was probably an instruction straight from Phil! 🤣
I have to say, this is one of the few things I disagree with Phil on. In theory it seems great, but in practice, it's actually pretty terrible and not safe in my opinion. To dump the main quickly in a big gust, you essentially have to dump both of them to effectively depower the boat. This can be confusing for crew with two sheets and take time which is critical in those situations. Don't just take my word for it, let Shane of youngbarnacles who has lots of experience with this system explain the problems. ua-cam.com/video/-woIQ2nI-3Q/v-deo.html
Forgive me, this is just not true. You do not have to release the leeward sheet to "dump the mainsail" at all. Anytime you wish to depower the boat, or turn down, you simply ease the windward sheet. If someone has an issue with this system they do not know what they are doing, or the system is designed improperly. FYI: this same system was used on every single Catana 471 and 431 ever built. I have never heard of anyone struggling with it. There are three big things I do not like about a traveler system:
1. It complicates sailing and means you have to have a track and cars and extra winches and sheets. It is more time consuming to gybe for sure.
2. A traveller system means you cannot control the swing of the boom in bouncing conditions anytime the mainsail is not trimmed in tight. This means you must attach a preventer to the leeward hull to stop yourself by being driven crazy with your banging boom. In our the V system the mainsail is always vanged. And you do not have to detach the preventer to gybe. The one caveat is that if you wish to sail downwind for a long period of time we sometimes "vang" the boom to the leeward hull like a preventer to get better mainsail trim angle. In this instance you must attach and detach the leeward sheet before you gybe. I can say that in most day sailing and hopping conditions we do not do this.
3. The V system allows you superb control over the leach of the mainsail and enables you to twist it or flatten it to perfection if you know what you are doing. A traveler does not allow you to adjust twist nearly as well.
Alas, another video I must do! Stay in balance!
@@balancecatamarans I agree with some of those points. However when the boom is much past the centerline and the leeward sheet pull becomes vertical or past vertical i.e. facing the same direction as the windward sheet, easing the windward sheet isn't going to do much unless you have the leeward sheet very slacked. If you have it very loose and ease the windward side, then you can have large shock loading happening as that slack is taken up quickly. Again, Shayne Young from @youngbarnacles who is a well known multihull racer and rigger demonstrates this on his Catana 42 with the A frame system in the video I linked to. Every system is a set of compromises, but a traveller setup is a pretty well tried and tested one.
@@kenyonstewart7120 i watched the other video too and was initially concerned about this system as the one in the other video doesn’t look great, however I noticed the balance has 2 distinct differences which look like they would help to alleviate the issues described:
1. You can change the attachment positions of the two sheets. This would make the angle of the leeward sheet so wide that you should always be able to dump the main from the windward sheet.
2 Although it’s not shown on this video, it looks like the two sheets on the balance are controlled together at the helm as opposed to two different positions, so trimming would be easier as you could more easily adjust both sheets at the same time.
Would be nice to see another video showing how the balance is trimmed to confirm 👍🏼