AND IT'S HAPPENED IMMEDIATELY! The Story of the 1990 Japanese Grand Prix
Вставка
- Опубліковано 7 вер 2024
- "I race to win" were Senna's words after he and Prost controversially collided in 1990 at the first corner of the Japanese Grand Prix. Some would say he was justified, some would say he should have been banned.
We know what happened in the race, but so much was said afterwards by Senna to maybe justify it, and it's quite interesting to read. But what do you think?
Enjoy! And remember to like and subscribe for more!
------
Wikipedia images used under the following CC Licenses:
creativecommon...
creativecommon...
creativecommon...
Flickr images used under the following CC Licenses:
creativecommon...
creativecommon...
creativecommon...
creativecommon...
creativecommon...
creativecommon...
Business enquiries: amsimracing@gmail.com
Patreon: www.patreon.com/aidanmillward
Discord: / discord
Instagram: amillward01
Twitter: Aidan_Millward
Steam: AdmiralLaWind
----
CPU: Ryzen 5 2600 @3.9gHz
Motherboard: MSI B450 Mortar Micro ATX
RAM: Corsair Vengeance 2x 8gb @ 3000mHz
GPU: MSI GTX1660 w/ slight OC
Editing Software: Sony Vegas 14 Steam Edition
Wheel: Simucube 2 Pro - Cube Controls Formula Pro Rim
Pedals: Fanatec Clubsport V3 with Brake Performance Kit
Murray Walker - who it was said never had a bad word to say about anybody - did say in his autobiography that he never forgave Senna for this incident
He was a raging senna fan too.
@@AidanMillward it hurts more when you're a fan or a friend (there's a v good chance Senna considered him to be one because which driver didn't? 🤷🏻♀️). I was never a fan of Schumacher, so I wasn't hurt by his own nefarious actions. Had Damon acted like that, maybe I would not still be a Damon fangirl.
@@y_fam_goeglyd In concur. I was a fan of Schumacher. Gave him benefit of the doubt in 1994, but Jerez 1997 was a huge disappointment. I still liked him after that, but something was broken.
@@nehylen5738 What’s even funnier is the following year Schumacher came out of the pits in Canada and drove Frentzen right off the road and onto the grass, putting him out of the race. And he got a penalty for it.
Later that same race Damon blocked him down the straight towards the chicane and Michael was absolutely raging and calling Damon a dangerous driver. 🤣
@@AidanMillward he wasn’t necessarily a raging Senna fan, he’s said in interviews that he was a great person but never rated him above Prost. He said as much in his Beyond the Grid interview
I hate that the “no longer go for a gap” quote is celebrated as a racing philosophy instead of the pathetic excuse for an egregious intentional crash it was
I’m with Senna on this one. For the second year in a row the FIA was going to screw Senna out of a title and give it to Prost (see lining Senna up on the right side of the track as opposed to the left and in 89 when Senna was disqualified over some bullshit). Senna knew that if neither he or Prost finished, then Senna would win the title.
I call this an epic racing move to secure a world championship.
@@jaywalkallstarWhile I do think the quote is a bit silly, I do agree wholeheartedly with what you say. I don’t really mind dirty driving personally and I do love to see someone willing to do anything to win. Personally back in 2021 I was kind of hoping Verstappen would pull a Suzuka 90 on Hamilton to secure the WDC on countback.
@@Zezezeze69Well he actually did it in Monza '21. It just didn't have the effect on the championship because of the crash in Silverstone.
Fr bruh
Agreed. It was a bullshit top of the head quote to deflect Jackie Stewarts fair questioning. Running into Prost at 160mph~ robbed us of a potential epic battle for the championship. Not to mention it was dangerous and irresponsible.
I watched this stuff play out live back in 89 & 90. It was riveting. I was a Williams fan at the time and couldn't care less if the McLarens and Ferraris took themselves out. When Senna got back to the McLaren garage after the crash at Suzuka in 1990, the Honda mechanics were not overjoyed to greet him. They felt he had dishonoured Honda with the deliberate crash. He truly was a Dr. Jerkyl & Mr. Hyde personality.
Well, if you're totally honest Prost totally screwed Senna over by ramming him out of the race. After seeing that Senna continued the race Prost then ran to his "friend" Jean Marie Balestre to not just get Senna disqualified for that race so he, Prost, would become World Champion, but Prost's little talk with Balestre also got Senna's superlicense suspended for 6 months. Senna eliminating Prost to become World Champion was just payback and payback's a bitch.
@@tjroelsma Sorry, Senna rammed Prost in 89, going for a gap that wasn't there. I'll take James Hunt's instant opinion that the crash was 100% Senna's fault. of course all the Senna FanBois blame it on Prost. Regardless, no excuse for his cowardly act in this race, he should have had all his points taken away...
@@rogeeeferrari my guess is TJ was referring to the 89 event as the primary cause of the 1990 event
@@Pseedholm Thats what I was referring to as well, in 89 Senna makes a suicide move and rammed into Prost, totally Senna's fault. Regardless as I said, no excuse for his cowardly actions in japan 1990
I think Senna knew the dangers of the sport but, being such a religious bloke, he never thought it would happen to him. God gave him his talents, God would protect him. It's why he drove like he did whereas Prost became more about getting the car home. Senna was miles back when he went for the move in '89 but he believed he could pull it off. Prost wasn't going to move out of the way. It's a racing incident through and through, in my opinion.
Suzuka '90 is one of the pivotal points that people have questioned Senna's moral compass. Like you've mentioned, he cared a lot about the safety and well being of other divers, but to see him as the ruthless, win at all cost no matter what driver makes people beliving that he is contradicting himself, just because he was DQ'ed 12 months prior. Like you've also mentioned he also called Prost "coward" for putting a hard NO on him at Williams for 1993, but journalists again put his moral compass under question as he did a similar thing very early into his own F1 career. Back in the 1986 off-season Elio de Angelis left Lotus after 6 teams donning the black and gold and gave Colin Chapman's final F1 win before his passing in late 1982. Derreck Warwick was considered as a replacement, but Senna kiboshed the idea as "Lotus doesn't have the resources to maintain two cars equally challenging for the win" and stuff. Instead Johnny Dumfires was choses, but he and Satoru Nakajima (who replaced him at the behest of Honda, who were supplying engines for Lotus) were nowhere near close to Senna, who was the undisputed leader in a team that was slowly beginning its decline, which would lead to their demise after 1994.
Schumacher was disqualified "for less" is something that most people disagree. Remember that 3 years ago at Adelaide he collided with Damon Hill under very sus circumstances. The Michael was out, but Hill limped on to the pits when it was discovered that the suspension was kaput, meaning that Damon couldn't get the vital 1 point he needed and Schumacher won by default. Of course Williams tried to lodge a protest, but given the situation surrounding the investigation of Senna's death (since by the Italian law any death at sporting event is looked as it was a crime scene) it was thrown out. And back to Jerez, Martin Brundle (by then Walker's commenting partner on ITV) has said this: “That didn’t work Michael, You’ve hit the wrong part of him, my friend”. What Brundle was implying, was that The Michael was targeting one key part of the Williams - the suspension, which like Adeliade would've in theory given him the title by default (unless he was caught, which he would've had IMO) if Villeneuve's suspension was damaged beyond repair. But as we all know, Villeneuve limped on to finish 3rd (despite of allegations that Williams and McLaren had colluded), won the title and Schumacher got excluded for his troubles.
This is by no means a way to diminish the accomplishements of Senna and Schumacher, but they've had that darker side in which they were ruthless and were going to do whatever it takes to accomplish their goals.
However it could be argued that this darker side actually cost them championships. Villeneuve allegedly wouldn't have made the corner at Jerez in 1997 (something we'll never know admittedly), but Rascassgate was another matter entirely. Given Michael finished 5th at that race from a pitlane start, it is conceivable that he could have actually won, and the title momentum could have swung his way and not Alonso's
And I will go a little bit further. Alonso could have won the title in 2007 but because he let Lewis Hamilton get into his head, Hungary happened. He didn't need team orders to win
Yep. Senna called Prost a coward for vetoing Senna from Williams in 1993; but everyone forgets that Senna vetoed Derek Warwick from the Lotus team in the mid-1980s; which if you look at Warwick’s luck in F1 from the mid-1980s on with regards to drives, it could be argued that Senna’s veto of Warwick potentially destroyed Warwick’s F1 career. He eventually got to drive for Lotus when Senna moved to McLaren, but they’d long past their best by then. Then he just ended up stuck in struggling, tail-end teams.
Senna was at least as dirty a player as he accused others of being. He was just cunning at covering his tracks with it. Devious, he was. Devious. Atleast when Prost did things, he was honest about it. 💁
Yeah it’s called racing and being a champion. They are all ruthless.
@@mamavswild Damon Hill wasn't
TLDR
Imho, Senna should've been disqualified from the season like Schumacher was in 97, this was a very big impact, luckily they both remained upright.
Verstappen 2021 as well
You probably weren’t even alive to watch it happen at the time… drivers had balls back then.
@@rs660alec3 by that logic: Hamilton in 2021 in regards to the Silverstone incident.
@@rs660alec3 your social activist Hamilton also passed Max off the track on lap 1
@@Gamebit257 Mr #BLM can do no wrong tho
I know the crusade of Senna for security in F1. I knew this episode from 1990s Suzuka. But for some reason I never put 2 and 2 together and wondered "why this polar opposite reaction to everything he's fighting for ??”. This will be a headscratcher for me for quite a long time, thankfully hair is gone since more than a decade.
Great video as always, thank you.
Imagine if Twitter witnessed this as it was happening. Imagine the controversy.
There's a long interview with Prost in the official F1 channel where he talks about those incidents. While talking about winter before 1994 where they got close, he said Senna had told him some things as a secret, and Prost said he wouldn't ever reveal. These things might be confessions, reasons for some things he'd done, or just about his personal life. After this interview where Prost litterally admits Senna as a part of his story with 0 regrets, I no longer feel the need to hate Senna because of his bad actions despite it being reasonable, just because they were finally in peace with each other. Prost himself doesn't hate Senna, he just hates the way Senna's fanboys portray his documentary's happenings as a hate crime made by Prost against Senna ( such as a villain), but this movie doesn't have the *rest* of the story, where neither of them are the villain, they just ended up as good friends, but both Senna and Prost's fanbases are still fighting to this very day about who's to blame for what.
At least it's not worse than what # TeamLH is nowadays.... what a dumb mess.
Tbf all the fanbases are areeholes today because of Twitter. Max fans tutting at Masi getting the death threats after AD but forgetting all the n word DMs and stuff that was being sent to Lewis after Silverstone.
Pointing fingers but not realising they’re pointing at a mirror.
Agree op, if someone is a senna fan and wants a good story about him… prost is the best place to get it. All drivers are humans and all humans make mistakes. The optics of that crash are really bad and it is the worst thing senna did to someone else. Senna still one of the best of all time. So is Prost without a doubt.
@@AidanMillward For sure! I've been laughing my ass off of the chaos that Zandvoort and Monza GPs generated on Twitter. It's fricking bonkers, reading hate comments there was never that funny since AD 2021..
@@pranc236 Reckless Senna fans will never realize that who knows the most about what happened before his death since Prost retired, *is Prost himself.* He carries much of Senna's legacy as his own family.
This comes from me, as a brazilian and a Senna fan. I've seen so much dumbness around brazilians conspiring against everyone else mostly in regards of his death... I bet half of brazilian fans don't even know the investigation about the accident existed, was concluded and closed. Some still think it's a ''mistery'' and that someone purposefuly killed him, that the FIA is a big mafa and all sorts of shite...
@@rigel8755 u are correct, im a senna fan too. The arguments seemed to be with ppl that only saw the doc on him. U cant get through to these ppl. I usually leave them with. He was very passionate and that will bring out the best and worst in ppl.
Would like to ask u about his name though. Ayrton… is it a brazilian name? Common or not. Its really the only thing i have not gotten in real information on. Thanks for ur time. 😉
Nigel Mansell also had a couple of altercations with Ayrton both on track (famously grabbed by the collar of his overalls at spa in '87) and in the drivers briefing (pre Barcelona '91. He's also gone on record as saying Senna was so good that he didn't need to be a bellend. Then there's the incident on the podium in Hungary' 92, where Senna was in highly charitable mood
Everyone seems to forget that Mansell was the only one at the time who could beat Senna fair and square on the track. It was a shame that he didn't have reliable cars during the period of Senna's ascendancy (1988/91).
I still to this day remember the day Mansell missed out on his first championship by half a point and blowing tyres on the back straight at Adelaide.
Heartbreak in my house that day.
Damn I'm old.
Have you ever thought of doing a video on the Senna/Piquet feud, which seems to have its roots in their families being on opposite sides of the turbulent politics of Brazil in the earlier era. Bruno and Nelson Jr. however are friendly.
I had no idea about the origin of their feud. +1 for wanting to know more about this.
I knew there was one but never knew why. It would be a great video.
A Gordan Murray interview touched on this subject. Piquet didnt care for senna but i always thought it was the younger talent issue. Makes perfect sense though. Nothing divides like politics.
@Brian Boulter So in other words, Senna was Gatsby and Piquet was Tom Buchanan?
A very interesting note to the whole Prost/Senna saga is originally Ron Dennis wanted Nelson Piquet for 1988 (Piquet's Williams contract was ending in 1987 and was looking elsewhere) and not Senna. Alain Prost lobbied Senna to Dennis as he felt Senna was the future and a better choice for McLaren, even though Prost was friends with Piquet. So Prost was quite instrumental in getting Senna into McLaren.
I don't hate on Senna, but I don't hold back on slamming him either. He was one of the most gifted and hardworking drivers ever born, but he was also a spoiled brat in a lot of ways, and this was the biggest, most spectacular example of that. I also stand by my contention that a lot of the fandom remains bamboozled by his charisma, by his ability to convince you that, "something very important for the world was going" around him. That's the key difference between Senna and Schumacher imho.
Pretty much what I say about him. Massively talented driver but had a victim complex the size of the moon.
I have the same issue with Shoemuncher.
If he had been the same guy driving for Mercedes as he was the rest of his career he would have been a legit legend.
Instead he was just another Senna. Highly talented indeed but with championships he never should have been awarded.
Senna movie, they show a clip of him talking to Roland B... (not going to spell that) about starting on the left side of the grid. This is about the one hour mark (on Netflix)
Not sure what year it actually is, but it is framed like it was at Suzuka. Looks like it is actually Hockenheim which IF it is 1990 changes things a bit.
I feel this contributes to this story a lot.
The last F1 podium without a European driver, and a real feel-good story for Moreno. Some people went home happy at least. And finally we can compare Senna's actions with some of Schumacher's more belligerent actions. If you did this in the early-era online discussions of the late 90s and early 00s, you were torn to shreds.
I remember . I took a lot of shit online in those days
Gosh you're young, Aidan... Really good video. This was the definitive rivalry of the sport, and it was a shocking heel turn by Ayrton. I think he never really got back his reputation afterward. I know we've all seen the Senna documentary but I'd recommend reading the book Senna versus Prost, by Malcolm Folley. It really delves into how the rivalry between the two built up over the years, and of course while sadly only Prost could be interviewed I felt he was fair and even handed in the recollections.
Ayrton Sena's dedication, passion and skill are something to be remembered..... his attitude is definitely a Brazilian trait to not be proud of, still one of my favorites!!!
While I deeply admired the talent that Senna had I equally despised his mentality, it's one thing not to care whether you survive but using that as a threat towards others is a whole other matter. The most irksome thing is that he didn't need to be this way, he had the talent to be the best without needing to be a loose cannon all the time
My thoughts as well.
“This isn’t hating or slamming”
Senna: “hold my beer”
*slams*
Brazilian and Senna fan here. I go with Top Gear Special on that one: Senna could be the most caring person anywhere else but when driving for the win he was absolutely ruthless!
Not 100% sure but from memory I seem to remember that even on his early F1 days he was already considered to be reckless and knew people called him reckless and hated being called reckless - I think I read this on his biography.
(Won't mention his accident with Brundle in F3 I think cause I didn't know that till I saw on Top Gear and though it clearly shows Senna was always like that my perception of him as a racing driver was from what I've seen on F1 only).
As for the 1990 incident yes it was a direct consequence of the 1989 accident and Senna's perceived 'everyone against me' mentality. Also I seem to remember Piquet sort of defending Senna on the 1990 pre-racing debriefing mentioning the 1989 accident and as said on the video they were less than friends so Piquet had no reason to say what he said - and after hearing this Senna stormed off.
Anyway all that was said on this video is pretty much my take on this. Just one quick 'trivia' regarding the Schumacher penalty years later: I remember reading (or seeing an interview?) where Schumacher said he did what he did because he learned it from Prost/Senna in 1989/90 and if they could win a championship by crashing into the opponent why wouldn't he?
And I believe this is why the rules were changed and he got penalized. Sure doing it twice in a row didn't help but saying what he said was the last straw...
Schuamcher was deemed to have done it in the heat of the moment and it not been pre meditated. Think he also got done in part to the fact he denied/lied about it to the fia as well.
" Schumacher got tossed out for less " fucking right . The Senna worshippers in the F1 fanbase who shit on Schumacher are the most hypocritical people .
Great Series and content Aidan. I am sure you wish to have watched all these races live as we oldsters did.
A) That Jim Beam segment was the signature driving style of James Hunt. And he's celebrated for this.
B) Senna didn't lift but Prost DID close the gap.
C) The year before, the cutting the chicane decision was political. People cut chicanes all the time and it's OK if they don't gain advantage. Which Senna did not.
D) It can be successfully argued that Prost did the EXACT same thing in that final chicane collision as Senna did the year after. In fact, what Prost did was pretty much what Schumacher did to Vlilleneuve.
Great video. Always look forward to your vids on the 80s and early 90s
your channel is my antidote to all of the abysmal f1 channels that have cropped up recently. thanks!
I don’t know how people can defend senna in the 1989 and 1990 incidents. People who defend senna there really have no clue what racing is.
In what way is Senna responsible for 1989? For going for a legitimate overtake and then the other guy turning in on him way before the apex. He is totally responsible for 1990 but 1989 Prost should been DSQ from the championship for what he did, that would have set a precedent making 1990 unlikely to happen and Schumacher less likely to try to crash two championship rivals off as well. Any self respecting sports fan that cares about the integrity of sport and winning being achieved on merit, should be disgraced by the favouritism Balestre showed Prost, rewarding him for blatant cheating, an act of cowardice
Prost absolutely deserved it.
the 1990 title of course (and the 1988 one as well)
Had me in the first half ngl.
Heheeeé boiii
1989: Prost took out Senna deliberately
1990: Senna took out Prost deliberately
People (particularly British F1 fans, for some strange reason) only think the latter was bad. Because Senna was:
a) Not a European driver (especially not a British or French driver)
b) Not a Ferrari driver
c) An intense, God-fearing Latin American landowners' sun
Most of the Senna hate has less to do with his driving and more to do with his character or whether people have a personal dislike of him anyway...
i was about 2 and 3 months, i dont remember this and all i know is what i have been told and videos i have watched on the incident, its good to get a full insight into it all in one video
Honestly, I've never been able to understand the cult of personality surrounding Senna. No matter how charitable and considerate he was at times, he turned into a ruthless sociopath when the red mist descended and he would do absolutely ANYTHING to win. Admittedly, all racing drivers have to be somewhat ruthless, but Senna (and Schumacher) took that ruthlessness to a whole new level and I can't possibly ignore that personally. That's why Jim Clark will always be my racing hero. He was ruthless, too, at times, but he was always a good sport.
You said you don’t understand why he’s a cult of personality and then go on to in your same comment explain why he is revered in that way. It’s BECAUSE he was both. He was generous and considerate unless you were both sittin in F1 cars racing for F1 points.
8 days old? We'll forgive you then for not remembering. 😅
Had there been a Red Flag & a restart, Senna would've been in the same mindset, but Prost would have tried to suck him in & brake at the last moment, so that Senna went flying off from too much speed, allowing Prost to turn in late, & drive off to win the race giggling all the way. I would have laughed my arse off.
wouldve been hilarious to see that, either Senna would have gone straight off in that scenario or launch it around the outside since Prost would be braking early
Senna definitely had a moral code and a sense of racing ethics, though I think he was the only one who could reconcile those with his actual behaviour on track in his head. He must have lived with a severe cognitive dissonance problem, which may explain all his outbursts and extreme emotional displays.
Saying Senna was mentally ill is another level...
Man appreciated that Hunt accent... It was close Aidan!
Hello Aidan: This was very, very interesting. You do this sort of thing really well. Thank you.
I'd argue that the favoritism was towards Senna since he wasn't DQ'd like Schumacher. And since there was another race to run after Japan, a race ban wouldn't really be illogical considering that he put another driver at risk in such a blatant way.
Remember that this was the first totally obvious time it had happened, and again obviously, it was before _that_ weekend in '94 when the FIA went safety mad. Eventually. Because remember also that Schumacher didn't get kicked out for deliberately crashing into Damon Hill in the last race. He did exactly what Senna did, only fortunately at a much reduced pace during the same year that Senna died. But it was as deliberate and as despicable an action. (Yes, I'm a Damon fangirl, but I also was 50:50 - most of the time - regarding Senna and Prost. Neither men were angels!)
It wasn't really until '95 that extra rules regarding driving standards and safety in general would start to be implemented. Also, by '97 Schumi had done a few other dubious things and the FIA were put into a bind. If they didn't punish him for such a wanton act of stupidity and bad sportsmanship (or cheating, depending on your POV), doing it to someone else in the future would be more difficult and they didn't want to set yet another precedent. I think it was a combination of his actions on that day _and_ all the other dodgy things he did that got him banned.
It's not like he truly learned his lesson, as he blatantly cheated later on to keep his pole position, etc. I don't knock the man's talent, or his off-track behaviour, but he was no gentleman _on_ track.
A one race ban may not have made Senna think too much because he would still be champion in 1990 and nothing affecting 1991. A better solution may have been to ban him from the first 2 races of the 1991 season thereby putting at risk his ability to be champion again in 91. That might have got him thinking a bit.
Well done Aidan on what is a very tribal subject. It’s interesting that this brings out such contrasting opinions even after all this time.
I watched 1989 Suzuka live on ITV as a 10 year-old French boy obviously wanting Prost to win (my 2nd or 3rd GP, maybe?). I remember feeling that Senna was disgusting at the time. Didn't watch Adelaide or F1 until 1993 again as a result. Eventually I learned about this 1990 crash and felt it was bad, but not too much about it: it was just in my mind that Senna did things so, and that was "normal", in a way.
Eventually, when online video appeared, I could finally watch for myself, with all the knowledge I had acquired as an adult, after watching Ratzenberger, Barrichello, Senna himself, Hakkinen, Schumacher (99) crash very badly, or the stories of these guys having died from receiving a F1 tyre upon their head (Imola 94 and also Melbourne in 1999 or 2000, I believe?)
From then, in my mind, Senna had gone from "pretty questionable yet fantastic driver" to "absolute madman & bastard, despite being a fantastic driver", thinking how much he had endangered people on a whim that day. I both can and cannot fathom his personality cult.
I mean , he is also Hamilton's hero
@@jamesstewart1794 What does Hamilton have to do with OP's comment?
Great video Aidan! It's videos like this why I subbed to you years ago. I also have to say how admirable it is that you basically had your whole channel destroyed from that copyright claim and you just kept on and now you have a library of videos again. You make great content and you're also very admirable in keeping on. Keep it up man! Love what you do!
Thank you for clearly stating all the truthful facts about this event. I'd already appreciated one of your other videos on the magnesium Honda from 68, this one here got me subbed to your channel. Very impressive work you do!
I like them both. The differing personalities is what F1 needs more of today.
Well, Senna also "believed" that gawd bestowed upon him the right to win every race he entered, so I'm pretty sure the FIA didn't agree to the switching of the pole spot.
As always, your videos are so great!
Can you imagine if Social Media had existed back then? With the way people reacted to the Verstappen vs Hamilton battle last year with the public pressure actually forcing F1 to change rules and people in charge over what people thought they had seen. If it had been around in that time I doubt people like Bealstre or even maybe Prost would've remained in the sport, if all the Senna "fans" had made their voices heard as loud as they could it could've changed F1 entirely.
I remember very clearly watching the race live on TV the tension was beyond measure, I feel privileged to has seen all the Prost/Senna races on telly as well as at the circuits.
Unless he’d gotten a better start the second time after a restart, absolutely YES, Senna would have run Prost off the road again. The man was determined not to let Prost and Balestre get another one over him……… as he saw it.
Good stuff, thanks. One of those events that has probably more theories and stories regarding it than what actually happened. And of course, as you said, the story went on in 1991 when Senna gave some more thoughts on it in the press conference after winning the title.
Senna had a massive habit of it as well, Nannini in 1990, Mansell in Adelaide in 1992. As a kid, i was a Benetton Fan and saw this as Senna way out of line, as has been said Schumacher got pinched for less. It also shows that probably until the 1997 Schumacher decision F1 was the wild west in relation to this stuff.
Wish I could give an extra like for that hunt impression 😂
0:38 EIGHT DAYS OLD??? Now I understand some of your viewpoints better.
Hard to believe that there were almost no comparisons of Senna/Prost to MSC/VIL in '97. Thanks for making it, in a clear and concise manner.
"Would Senna have done it again if the race had been restarted?"
Absolutely. It would have been interesting to see how the FIA would have responded to it.
Ive watched many of your videos and a subject i think you should do a video on is the mystery death of henri toivonen although its a tricky subject ive been researching it for over 20 years been the crash site 4 times and although im no expert i can if interested ?
He did one on the deadly years of rallying which contained this sad story. However, I don't know if it's still up. The title will make it obvious if you want to have a look. HTH :)
@@y_fam_goeglyd yes true but with so much untold story out there which many are unaware of it would make an interesting video but as ive stated its a tricky subject but has many unanswered questions
The excitement that Senna created when racing is totally missed in any forensic analysis over 30 years later. Whether he was the 'best' or not is subjective. Imagine dissecting the 2021 release or non release of the safety car in the final race in 2051 giving the title to Verstappen, it's just numbers and facts without the emotions of how you felt. Can't put a number on what a driver made you feel at the time...
Exactly. Well said
Imagine if this happened now, social media and media and fans on social media would make a flame war unlike anything seen before.
One of the most objective opinion of the many that I have heard on this incident. And I also think that the move Senna did would be outrageous on these days and maybe even a few years later , as the Shumacher-Villenueve incident.
Good James Hunt impression 💯
Aiden, you were 8 days old when Senna took out Prost. I was 11 days old when Dale Sr. died...
One thing worth noting is that the collisions between Prost and Senna both in 1989 and 1990 were quite unprecedented. Not even the duel between Villeneuve and Pironi, the two Ferrari drivers who had a falling out in 1982 similar to Senna and Prost, had been this bad.
So indeed, the first time a driver was comprehensively punished (albeit to no material effect) was Schumacher after he tried to take Villeneuve Jr. out at Jerez.
As for comparing the two Prost/Senna collisions, I don't see much of a difference. The 1990 collision looks far worse, but it really wasn't. In all likelihood Senna was speculating that Prost would take a more conservative line as in order to avoid this kind of coming together. And Senna simply realized that he could take greater risks.
Quick note on the 1989 Suzuka/season recap. If Senna's win at Suzuka in 1989 had been confirmed, his bid for the championship would have stayed alive! The GP at Adelaide would have been a show down based on the following arithmetic: Senna 1st (69+9=78 pts), Prost 2nd (76+6-4=78pts) > Senna and Prost both end the season 78 pts, but Senna would have had 8 wins over Prost's 4.
Takes me back to being 18. I can remember being up in the middle of the night here in America , And trying not to yell at the TV and wake up my parents.
This incident in particular is the very reason why I dislike Senna.
He was an incredibly talented driver. But had this attitude that the track was his and everyone else had to get out of his way.
He was more than fine with putting others in danger just so he could win.
Great video, i would be very interested to find out why there where these 2 sides to Senna, but i suspect we never will find out
Michael Schumacher being excluded from the championship was always a bit of a hollow gesture, as he was excluded from second place, and nobody cares about second place. Would the FIA have disqualified Schumacher if it meant stripping him of the title? I don’t know that they would have.
The constructors title is where all the money is, but the fans really only care about the driver’s championship. Stripping McLaren of their constructors points and giving them a huge fine in 2007 was a big hit to the team, but their two star drivers still kept their points and were contenders for the championship. If they really wanted to send a message to teams, they would have penalized the drivers too.
While Senna might have called Prost a coward for not wanting him on the same team, it helps to remember that Senna did something similar. In 1986, Senna was at Lotus and vetoed Derek Warwick's choice to be in the other car. He said it was because the team couldn't provide equal cars to both drivers, and he was contractually the lead driver. This is why at the last minute, Johnny Dumfries was hired and soon proved to be absolutely no challenge to Senna.
Warwick would never have a shot at a winning F1 car again. The rest of his career was in with a Brabham team that had seen better days, the perennial midfielders Arrows, finally at a Lotus only a distant memory from its glory days, and a return to Arrows as Footwork. Derek Warwick is considered one of the best F1 drivers to have never won a race
Excellent comment and a lot of people forget that. For Senna to whine about Prost having superior equipment in 93 was pathetic. When Senna won 3 titles in 4 years did he say, oh it's not fair, please give all the other teams Honda engines?? Lol, of course not!! Fairness is when I win, not you!!
As an American, I have to say that Dale Earnhardt Sr taking out Terry Labonte at Bristol in both the 1995 & 1999 night races is right up there with this as the most egregious attempt to take out a fellow competitor in racing history. Dale Sr was known for driving "like a SOB" according to fellow NASCAR drivers and the list of his takeouts is too many to name. However the 2 incidents at Bristol I listed above are the most infamous & well known in his career so much so that they are included in his highlights package on NASCAR's UA-cam page. Unlike Senna though, Dale Sr didn't give a damn about safety in NASCAR so much so that when the HANS device was introduced to the sport in 2001, he called it "that damned noose" thinking he would choke during a crash if wore it. A few weeks after he made those comments, he was killed on the last lap of the Daytona 500.
I think Noah Gragson takes the trophy now, with his Road America incident.
I'd start running from angry Dale fanboys that'll come in here screaming about you desecrating Nascar Jesus. Dale was a dirty driver with a cult of personality that grew after his death. Dale was good, but not this mythical can do no wrong figure so many fans seem to think of him...
Much like Senna, come to think of it. I'm honestly amazed IROC never tried in the late 80s/early 90s to get Senna, they went out of their way to get at least one or two international drivers for a good few years after all, Brundle was in it for a while, Derek Bell, et al.
10:35 Senna hit the side. His front left wheel and Prost's rear right were the contact point.
"I'm disappointed in you." Ron Dennis to Senna.
Pretty meaningless comment from Ron. After Portugal 89 when mansell and senna crashed after mansell allegedly ignored a black flag Ron said if that's the Ferrari team management idea of sportsmanship then they should change the management! Ok Ron so if you allow your own driver to do that at Suzuka 1990 with no punishment from the team what does that say about you? His comments after estoril 89 are on the record so there's a pretty hefty dose of hypocrisy there. Great team principal overall though.
Senna summed up his actions perfectly during his interview with Sir Jackie Stewart. He would go for a gap no matter what the consequences. In interviews with Jackie he often spoke about his interview with Senna and his complete astonishment at what Senna had said. I believe stewarts actually words were “Kid (senna) you’ve got problems”. Coming from someone who is as hugely respected as Sir Jackie I think that says it all
I wouldnt take Stewart too seriously. Hes also said Schumacher at Rascasse 2006 was an innocent 'driving error'
In Senna's mind, Senna could do no wrong. It's what made him insanely successful, but let's be honest: On track, he was a bully. The weird thing is how he also was fighting for more safety in the sport. Schumacher was similar in that regard.
Of course the Frenchman would loose on Oct 21st... Its Trafalgar Day after all!
pretty solid hunt impression
Yeah but he didn't sound drunk enough or swear like James did at Monaco 89 which was disappointing so only 7/10.
Sorry but being a ginormous bad sport is ridiculous and EXTREMELY shallow for an athlete at the worlds highest level. Senna and Schumacher have this in common and they both have championships that were won from shameful tactics. Imagine how insane this would be if it happened nowadays. The driver would be kicked out of the sport for purposely crashing into someone to clinch a title
One of the best videos you have done.
I was 29, and I remember that race, like it was yesterday. I couldn't stand Senna.
9 out of 10 for the JH impression Aiden, next time cig in mouth and beer in hand and its a 10
your intro could also be used for the dan ticktum Ricky collard incident at sliverstone in 2015
I have heard it said that Atilla the Hun was a nice quiet bloke too!
Ah yes, everyone’s favourite deliberate punt before silverstone 21.. peak irony
1989 was all Senna's fault too. He started the attempted pass from the pitlane entrance, and was never going to make the corner/chicane w/o banging into Prost.
That's why Prost deliberately turned in on him way before the apex, if he was so sure Senna had outbreaked himself why turn in and why do it earlier than necessary for the corner?
Glad Moreno made an appearance in this video at some point
I remember watching the incident on TV, I was 35 at the time 😁 Not only did Senna put his and Prost's life at risk but also the entire pursuing pack of cars and drivers not to mention marshalls and even spectators. Senna may have claimed a close affinity to God but he certainly did not have an intimate relationship with the laws of physics that day. He should have received a life ban for his actions. His genius was flawed and indirectly led to the acceptance of the tendency of the "uncompromising" tactics displayed by other drivers since, e.g. M Schumacher for one.
I was an active F1 fan since 1975 and I know that one can only be as good as He was if when you wear your helmet you just forget about all that surrounds you and your only focus is on winning no matter the cost!
I saw Senna on the Kart world championship, i saw him on his 1st victory, both in Estoril. As soon as he put the helmet on for the race he was a man possessed.
Senna was a great driver who had a problem with sportsmanlike conduct.
@Rachel Wood Well, I would have been more accurate, but I don't want to upset any of Senna's fans.
In 1989 Prost and Senna had a low-speed crash at the chicane with nobody else around them. In 1990, Senna drove into Prost at full speed at the first corner of the race with 24 other cars barreling along right behind them. It could have been carnage.
He should have been booted from the sport the second he admitted that he intentionally caused the crash. He was always on the edge and it was no surprise he died behind the wheel. At least he didn't take anyone else with him.
The champions photo in Adelaide 1990 had all the previous and current champions ( Hunt, Stewart, Hulme, piquet, Fangio, Senna and Brabham) without Prost. Prost said if there was 1% chance, he would say ok . . . But it wasn’t 1% . . .he hit my wing. The rear wing. . He didn’t hit my right wheel or the side of the car. . .he just push me from behind.
Murray Walker was at his best in that crazy start. Even in the film Senna mainly features Murray's commentary for that moment.
Senna was the Dale Earnhardt of F1. The passion, the 2 sides, the greatness. They are the same beast. And their sports miss them greatly.
I was waiting for it to happen. True story.
1990 Was actually the most dominant season of Senna’s career, he outled second place Prost in laps 556-110, but had comically bad luck, even losing a win because of running over a rock on the track.
His actions weren’t okay, but anyone besides him winning the title would have been an incredible joke. This part of the story never gets told, and I think is another part of the reason he did what he did.
I never raced at anything close to the level of F1, but I did race, and what I found was that there is a definite cognitive dissonance in drivers, particularly those capable of winning: they believe that safely is paramount, and they believe that winning is paramount. Those two, often mutually exclusive ideas exist simultaneously in the heads of guys like Senna and Prost.
Senna could not think of his actions at the Japanese GP as his responsibility because that would run counter to his absolute commitment to safety, but he also couldn't not take what he probably saw as his only path to victory.
It's Insanity, but it's a kind of Insanity that motorsports demands, encourages, and breeds. You can see examples in every discipline, though few as egregious as this, throughout the history of motorsport right up to today.
I like how people praise senna, but forget that he was like that always. He was driving to win and nothing else
Read the title of this video in murray walkers voice in my head
The James Hunt impression is quite good!
Oh....and Balestre used to make the rules up as he went along. So he favoured Prost and Ferrari and Renault. Getting Max Mosley elected as FIA President was a breath of fresh air from the alleged corruption of Balestre
Prost started it when they were teammates at McLaren claiming that McLaren was sabotaging him by giving senna superior equipment when in reality at the time, Senna was just clear of him. Senna just ended it, and emphatically. That’s racing.
Senna is the most blatant example of a driver switching personalities when he puts the helmet on.
October 1990? I was 5 months pregnant with my first. Didn't stop me getting up early to watch the race though!
Thanks for making me feel old! 😉
Tbh, yes, Senna would have taken him out on the restart. He was a genius racer, but he was a very flawed genius. He could be such a nice lad, too 🤷🏻♀️
I think you got a mention on the Race's Bring Back V10s! You mentioned the weird chicane at Giles Villeneuve in 1995.
I love the James Hunt impression.
Senna was a weird dude, they're many examples. Monoco in 1988 where he couldn't get far enough ahead of 2nd place, Mexico City in 1990 he had this ugly crash because he hit a drainage just to see what would happen and why he turned into Tamburello on the last day of his life with wonky steering with so far to go in a GP is just insane
Senna was nearly thrown out of the 1990 season even before a car was driven over remarks about Prost and Balestre as there was talk of Jonathan Palmer replacing Senna in the first 1990 race at Phoenix USA
The thing about pole position in my opinion is.
Whoever qualifies their car on pole regardless if it’s a sprint car race or Formula 1, should be able to chose what side of the track they want to start the race.
Senna’s actions were horrible and I’m a big senna fan. He should have been DQd
Agree on both points. Pole sitter should get to choose. Bizarre that nothing happened to Senna in 1990 but in 1997 with a much less dangerous incident involving Schumacher they suddenly discovered the ability to take points away.....
Before that race Mosley warned that anyone that was to interfere with the championship or do anything stupid would be punished to the nth degree
@@AidanMillward yes quite right of course but my point is, why did it take 7 years? People complain about inconsistency and double standards in today's f1, makes me laugh a bit!
I always find it interesting how Hamilton’s hero is Senna. If you had to compare his and Verstappen’s rivalry with Senna and Prost, Hamilton is closer to Prost and Verstappen is closer to Senna.