Combat Reforged | Ranged Weapons Rework for D&D 5e
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- Опубліковано 10 вер 2024
- Spice Up Ranged Weapons in Dungeons and Dragons with a New Ranged Weapon System! Ranged Weapons are very simple but limited in unique differences between bows and crossbows in D&D. I am here to give you a TON of Homebrew Ranged Weapon Options to bring them to life!⏬ More Content ⏬
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Histrically the crossbow/longbow divide was about training times. The longbow could shoot farther and faster but took years to train someone to the point where they could shoot a 100lb-150lb bow effectively. Crossbows were inferior in most every way except you could train up some crossbowmen in a few months. So crossbows replaced longbows not because they were better weapons but rather because a regiment of them could be put together much quicker and replaced relatively easy.
I would make light and heavy crossbows simple weapons and I would ban anything that removed the loading property. As you say this is a part of using a crossbow. Longbows should require a 13 Str and most of the ranges need to be increased.
I was thinking the same thing. 5E RAW does it backwards: By taking a feat (representing more skill), crossbow users can get more specialized the long bow users.
Spot on. My home brew change is exactly what you said. Crossbows move to simple ranged weapons and longbows require min str 13, short bows min str 11. You can’t have strength a dump stat if you want to use bows.
Kinda surprised that you think longbow range should increase... The idea of shooting someone at 150 feet, without penalty, is pretty insane...
This is a lot of great points, but there’s one more important historical factor: crossbows have much more penetrative power. Unlike a 120-150# warbow, a winch-loaded crossbow can have several hundred pounds of force. This enables them to potentially shoot completely through properly made plate armor, and into the next guy behind the one wearing the armor.
With this in mind, I really like the change of increased damage with a cleaned up loading system.
@@guamae it is unrealistic and insane. I would say just use the old school of range penalties for range weapons. Or they had short medium and long ranges and you suffered penalties to medium and long range.
When I did my weapon overhaul for D&D 5e I made massive changes to ranged weapons. Bows are faster, but do slightly less damage with a longer range and crossbows do more damage, but are slower and have slightly lower range. Bows are also martial weapons, while crossbows are simple weapons in my campaign.
Also both weapons have a str factored in. Since actually bows and crossbows are designed to have a certain 'pull' or 'draw' weight. For bows if your str is lower than the one the bow is designed for you can't even use it. With Long Bows dealing damage around that of polearms. Though I should also note that true Long Bows also require a Bonus action to reload (So lighter bows fire faster).
On the other side crossbows are slow, even the best mechanical systems reduce heavy draw crossbows to using actions to reload while low powered ones require only a bonus action. This is marked by 'Slow (1A)' or 'Slow(1B)'. So it's a trade of speed or damage. With light crossbows being about as fast as bows. However, heavy hitting crossbows deal way more damage than any polearm.
My setting doesn't have firearms, but they would deal even more damage, but also require reloading.
My players haven't really had issues with these changes.
Crossbows are designed with multiple draw methods (although some have the methods built-in). There's the raw strength "rip-pull", the foot-brace two-handed pull, and the crank/windlass method (which can be done while prone). I allow ogres, for example, to just rip-pull a heavy crossbow like it's nothing, and carry light ballista (but need the foot-brace or crank); the STR 8 rogue in the party, on the other hand, has to use the crank for her Heavy crossbow because she can't even manage the foot-brace-pull option. (since she likes prone sniping, the crank works for her anyway).
Going with actions-to-reload, each style would slower than the previous - rip-pull allows Extra Attack, footbrace is a bonus action (maybe Move Action), and crank is full-round; you aren't slowly cranking a beyond-your-weight crossbow, and loading it, and aiming it all in 6 seconds...
@@frederickcoen7862 Actually I did quite a bit of research... and the draw weight would often factor in on the method you would use to work it. So for instance a more 'modern' 1500's military use metal arm crossbow could be designed for an insane 1500+ lbs. and even an ogre likely couldn't pull one. They were typically sold with a windlass (and the design includes fittings to work with it).
Functional crossbows used in combat were often extreme weights. 'Low powered' ones were 900 lbs. Modern crossbows have a longer draw length or stroke, and can do with a weight of up to 200 lbs with performance just under that of 900 pound windlass era crossbows.
If you want to see some good videos about the way these worked Tod's Workshop on YT is a good resource. He makes classical crossbows and has videos comparing bows and crossbows as well as modern vs classic.
I tend to reward taking bow & crossbow weapons by offering specialized versions players can buy or find as rewards. These have unique buffs due to master craftsmanship, magic or both. I actually had a wizard PC choose to use their fancy crossbow over their ranged cantrip, because of all the james-bond style modifications on the crossbow.
Do you still have a doc of your weapon overhaul? I’d love to see it dude. If not all good, and if it isn’t free, then that’s fine too.
This Simple/Martial split is exactly what I'm doing with flintlock-era firearms versus the slightly-more-modern cased ammo armaments for my firearms in the current wip. Flintlocks are easier to produce in bulk but their use is a lot more penalized, meanwhile more intricate firearms are more expensive, but either perform better in damage and subrules or with upgrades can remove a handful of penalties that come with the muzzle-loaded brethren. I also set it up to where most crossbows and arrows do 1dx whereas firearms rely on 2dx exclusively. Arrows and crossbow bolts have a wider variance to their damage but in the hands of a skilled ranger can easily stack damage on damage, whereas firearms (which don't get Dex bonuses except on the very rare subclass, how would you get Dex over point and click after all) get reliably average damage and bonus die for criticals.
My homebrew: if you have your crossbow (or gun) loaded at the end of your turn, you can use a Reaction to fire it with Disadvantage at a creature that performed a Melee Attack on you.
Imagine you Fire, then Reload, a Goblin runs in and swings a sword at you. You, without aiming, pull the trigger.
Interesting interaction!!
Cool, is the disadvantage from a shooting in melee or just a balancing act?
I allow characters to load their crossbow shortly before entering a dangerous situation (i.e. combat), so they end up doing "shoot, load" instead of "load, shoot". They can't walk around with that always loaded (bad for the bow), but it does allow the Crossbow Expert to do what you said - use her Reaction to shoot someone as on Opportunity Attack for example. (That of course resets her to "load, shoot", unless she spends an action of some kind to "get back ahead of the cycle".)
As a LEO, Disadvantage on ranged weapons only makes sense with rifles and maybe bows. I'm not as familiar with bows, but hand guns and likely hand crossbows would be very effective at close range. A person proficient in them can "shoot from the hip" with high accuracy. This would be similar for shotguns, especially a sawed-off or blunderbus type gun.
Increasing the Critical range of a crossbow is a great way to make them unique.
And fundamentally take away from a certain couple of sub-classes.
And fundamentally screwing up but they were historically. Unless you're a weak character you should never choose a crossbow.
In Pathfinder, bows are "crit on 20, triple damage", while crossbows are "crit on 19-20, double damage" (like a longsword, as a reference). Of course, in Pathfinder, you start with the ability to shoot twice per round with a bow, and increase as you gain levels; with a crossbow, you're always going to be one shot per round...
As soon I start to watching this video I forget why and just want to have your t-shirt 👌🏼
the difference between a long bow and a crossbow is weapon proficiency, long bow are martial and crossbows are simple IE a wizard can use a crossbow but not a long bow with out any additional investment. so a wizard (or other charcter who only has simple weapon, who takes the crossbow feat, can not contribute more in combat along with a character with marital weapon proficiency.)
"why would i want to use a cross?" because the charcter is not proficient with a longbow that's why
@@timothylawrence2789 Then they could just use a Short bow.... Because Shortbows are also....Simple....
@@TommieCobb showbows have smaller damage die than a light crossbow. And a Crossbow loading feature doesn't impact characters like wizards and sorcerers who don't get 'extra' attacks.
@@TommieCobb also wizards weapon proficiency specifically says Crossbows not all simple weapons
No way the Heavy Crossbow should be simple. A d10 ranged weapon as a simple weapon is op.
I don't know if this has been said but there is a mundane martial weapon called the "Oversized Longbow," it is a STR based ranged weapon that does 2d6+STR piercing damage. It is found inside of Waterdeep: Dragon Heist.
will definitely use this in my campaign if someone picks up a crossbow. Thanks for the video.
Don't be too surprised if *everyone* picks up a crossbow when they find out about this.
@@rossburton8775 ill welcome it with open arms.
I think if you want martial characters to be more involved you should work it into the classes rather than the baseline system. Blanket changes are A. Going to affect every class differently, which can have some unintended consequences, and B. Going to make the learning curve much steeper but still flatten off as a character levels up. Even for experienced players, it’s nice to be able to quickly learn your new character at a baseline
Crossbows are weapons that are ready to fire if loaded, you can't hold a powerful bow drawn like that. This makes aiming easy for crossbows, yeah they are slow to reload but you can aim better at distance with them as only the reload is muscle powered. Heavy Bows unless you are really strong make you start shaking after a while drawn.
I believe it's very ill advised to hold any drawn bow for a significant length of time, regardless of your level of strength. Not just from potential shaking of the weapon, but possible damage to the muscles used to draw it in the first place. I'm not an archery expert by any means, but other videos I've watched said something along those lines.
In Olympic Recurve, archers fire recurve bows with 40+ lb draw weight, firing at a target 70 meters away. It is not uncommon to hold it drawn for up to 10 seconds (nearly two combat rounds) before releasing. It is also normal to fire 300 times over the course of a day's tournament.
@@O4C209 I was referring more to war bows 100lbs+ than lighter bows TBH, also most Olympic Recurve bows have stabilisers to counter balance and hold them steady better if I recall.
@@ndeathel Agreed, those bows are "perfection of aim", not "slam a clothyard shaft through a human target hard enough to kill or incapacitate". (And even 100# warbows tend to just shatter their shafts when striking actual metal plates like a breastplate or plate armor.) I can pull a 40# bow all day long too - especially a compound bow with pulleys and stabilizers designed to hold the string once you pass the minimum pull. But I have only a few seconds to pull-and-aim a warbow before I might as well not aim at all because my arms start trembling and my aim is screwed.
Ohhh that video is right on time! I was messing around with those items!
Let me know what you think and if you want my homebrews on guns too!
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Of Course!!
Yes please!
I'm sure they will be as funny as this one, so yeah, tell us what your guns are like. Since your crossbows are guns, I can only assume your guns will turn out to be crossbows.
You should do thrown weapons at some point
You cannot go wrong with content on weapons. Great breakdown. 👍
Love you coach, but gonna need to point out the thing you didnt mention. The comparison being made is between a light crossbow (1d8) which is a simple weapon and a longbow (1d8) which is a martial weapon. If your character is capable of using a longbow then odds are they can use a heavy crossbow or a hand crossbow. So such a character isn't even considering light crossbow since they have better options, like better crossbows.
Light crossbow was intended for non-martial characters (wizards, sorcerers) or characters with other ways of supplementing their damage (clerics, rogues etc). They are not supposed to be able to keep up with martial characters but can close the gap a little.
In addition, I would love to have your galaxy brain players cause my players cant even keep track of their ammunition. I dont know if they can keep track of whether a weapon is loaded or not. Run the game the way you want to, but dont be so dismissive of every rule you disagree with. Consider the rule's functions and whether your players would appreciate changing the rules or not.
It’s never my intention to dismiss rules, so I apologize if that ever came across at all. I never look down on rules but always present alternative options 👌🏼
I personally don’t have the material and simple weapons separated like RAW, so that’s probably why I came at it from that perspective.
For loading and tracking that: I got a little plastic container and a red bead. They would love the bead in the cup if they were read to fore and out of the cup of their crossbow was empty, was a beautiful tangible tool for them
This is precisely what I was thinking, regarding the options of simple vs martial and the choice options. The light crossbow is there solely as a ranged option for non-martial characters. In the games I run, all official rules remain except tow. "Crossbow Expert" does not remove the reload penalty and a heavy crossbow does 2d6 damage. I wanted to make the heavy crossbow a much more enticing option and I feel the damage upgrade, as written is not quite enough.
Crossbows have higher damage dice for the same weapon tier as bows.
Simple bow: shortbow - 1d6;
Simple Crossbow: light crossbow - 1d8.
Martial Bow: longbow - 1d8
Martial crossbow: heavy crossbow - 1d10.
It definitely feels like the Passive and Active abilities are based on "what mechanics would be useful" rather than "what makes sense for this weapon."
Let's goooo! All I want is ranged smiting. That's it....maybe a feat for that too?
A buddy just crafted a bow-and-arrow smite spell.
Coach made that as a Bonus Level Up Perk in one of his PDFs.
@@eddieblanton2981 oh I must have missed that one! I'll check back on it!
i was thinking of something similar, crossbow being slower to fire but dealing considerably more dmg. makes sense. crossbows on average will have a heavier draw than a bow, as the lighter ones are made to allow you to engage your whole body to pull it, and the ones that are too heavy for that had their won mechanisms to do so. more dmg and armor penetration for a lower firing rate. i dont think they really should be that kited for short range tho. crossbows would be more of snipers, bows with their lower draw weight because a person can only be so strong with her back and arms, where mode dependent on volume of fire to hit and deal damage.
and here comes the biggest thing i think should be changed.: bows should be str weapons, and crossbows should be dex. strength affects directly the use a bow. how powerful is the bow you can use, how much time you can keep full draw to even aim, how much you can shoot in succession. its accuracy is based on you having a firm stance while using it. something you can only do by having enough strength to use it properly. "uh but it requires hand coordination" even a fucking axe requires that. its still str. its really not that hard to learn how to operate a bow. it took so many years to traina a proper war archer, one that can pull a bow for combat, and use it frequently, exactly because it took so much time to build the strength to be able to use war bows. the bows in dnd that dont even have str requirements would be to hunt small prey at best.
meanwhile, crossbows require less strength, as they have their own ways of multiplying your force and use it to ready the string. one should have dexterity to operate crossbows with draw weights meant for combat, as those get more complicated loading systems the heavier the draw is. "uh but dex is to reanged combat" say that to the fighter throwing weapons down range with str.
Love the ideas, and yes crossbows need a rework. Your solution is pretty awesome.
Thanks Baron!
I really like the reload idea for crossbows. I did something similar when I was writing up some concepts for all the period weapons for a WW2 based campaign. I never thought about applying any of the cool mechanics I came up with to crossbows, though. So, I guess it's time to dust off my old research notes (and start making some new ones.) Thanks, Coach! =)
I love the sound of that! Do it!!
There‘s example guns in the phb. those include a reload property that is almost identical to coach‘s. minus the reloading as an attack.
Man your a truly genius Math of rpg. I REALLLLLLLYYYYY waiting to see pdf from your KS 2021 Almanach of all thing for 5 editions.
My own home-brew fix for the loading property was to reduce your movement to 0, standing in the same spot focused on reloading.
I did this because one of my players was a horizon walker ranger and didn't want to give up the bonus action for the force shot each turn. He was basically a mortar with a my home-brewed hand ballista that was a step up from heavy crossbow doing 1d12 haha
Surprised that wotc made the rogues steady aim feature similar to it
I know this video doesn't have 1,200 likes, but could you do another episode on Firearms. I'm very interested on what you have homebrewed for that. And I loved this episode as well as your video on melee weapons. Keep up the good work!!
I am now home brewing a whole skill tree for every weapon. A weapon skill tree is similar to a subclass, but most of it's abilities and benefits only works when you are holding the specific weapon.
A character can gain one skill tree for free equal to their level. And through some feats like weapon master can gain extra skill trees. But since most skill tree only works when holding the weapon, it's less likely to stack up but gives versatilities.
Also since player's getting extra 'subclasses' for free, so are the monsters. It's working kinda interesting now.
I think in Final Fantasy Tactics or Ogre Tactics (can't remember which one) the biggest difference between crossbow and regular bows was that crossbows fired straight, while longbows could arc so that when enemies were in the high ground or in a trench a longbow user could still hit them. Longbows should be the better weapon because it requires more training than a weapon that was mechanized to compensate for that. I would make crossbows simple weapons, longbows martial, and have longbows ignore 1/2 cover.
01:05 - Historically a bow that could carry an arrow the sort of distance you'd want on a battlefield would require a i) a skilled archer, and ii) a strong archer. A crossbow just needed someone who could point and shoot it. Much quicker to train and easier to replace losses. Also, a crossbow bolt was shorter and "waggled" less (a heavy bow would cause an arrow to "waggle" initially) meaning, at short ranges, it had a somewhat better chance of a straight on hit with better armour penetration but this was a minor benefit as an archer could use a stiffer, shorter "sheaf" arrow compared with a longer "flight" arrow for distance. In terms of Rate of Fire, a crossbowman would have a second who'd be re-loading (spanning) another crossbow with a windlass whilst he was aiming and shooting the first. They still couldn't match an archer in shots per minute.
As ever, D&D 3.5 does this better, with Strength minimums and bonuses being applicable to certain types of bow, than the simplified (and my opinion, wrong) 5e which treats crossbows like semi-automatic guns which they're not.
Spanning a Composite Crossbow by Cranequin
ua-cam.com/video/0rV1w8mFDdU/v-deo.html
470lbs Belt and Lever Medieval crossbow
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Medieval Warbow vs Windlass Crossbow - Speed, Accuracy (watch this one!)
ua-cam.com/video/1w8yHeF4KRk/v-deo.html
I changed Crossbows to deal 2d4 and 1d12 damage,
Using the loading property in basically the same way to what you described at the start.
Here's a little side house rule about shooting from a distance into a melee combat. This applies to any ranged weapon or spell which requires a to hit roll. You can do one of three things:
1- Roll at disadvantage. This is because you're not aiming at the opponent's center mass, but at a part of her which assures if you miss you don't hit your friend.
2- Roll regularly. If you miss, roll to see where you missed. If it lands on a square with a different monster than you were aiming for, roll at disadvantage to see if it hits. If it lands on a friend's square, roll with advantage (you have to take the higher roll) to see if you hit. I know that doesn't sound fair, but the purpose of this as a game mechanic is to make a penalty which discourages firing into melee.
3- Roll regularly and lose your movement and bonus actions because you used that amount of time to take extra care in aiming.
Im running a steampunk western in dnd and its mostly gun combat, so for classes like rouge instead of giveing them sneak attack when an ally is within 5, I do it based off of ideal range. Players pick 10ft distance out of their total range and can get sneak attack when enemies are in that range.
Such as 150short 600 long
They may choose 120-130
Going into Firearms, what makes them dangerous compared to a bow isn't damage- its training and capacity. From US Civil War Era and forward there were semi-auto weapons with more than one projectile in capacity. I personally am the most scared of crossbows, based on using a variety of modern versions of things and my campaign is set in an approximate 1980's. They can be the quietest, and can be made to be easy to load, while having AP ability.
I know none of this was mechanical but this video made me think haha!
Wait "time out". DC, did the light crossbow get 2d6 damage? The heavy crossbow does 1d10 and 2d8 just feels like a portable howitzer...
Hahah might FEEL like that but the math still puts the bow ahead of the crossbow even after these changes 😆
Swashbuckling rogue with the crossbow feat and a handcrossbow just got nutty
💜💜💜
Great video, just like the melee versions! I do have two questions: How would you change the crossbow expert feat to match with this? and A RAW heavy crossbow deals 1D10 damage, so wouldn’t 2D8 with your ruling be too strong?
Dcc has unique ability charts and maneuvers for every weapon type. Lots of fun
The thing the real crossbow has going for it is it's a simple weapon instead of a marshal weapon.
I love the 2d for crossbows. I probably wouldn’t pick up the other changes but this makes sense to me, a slow loading weapon that punches through armour (I used to play B/X where crossbows could only fire every second round).
You should actually watch a video of someone loading a heavy crossbow. It takes a really long time so that you would actually only get one shot per fight.
LOVE this approach! It always bugged me that crossbows were only attractive options to casters who wanted a good ranged option (which is almost no caster), and I love how you've tried to keep it feeling different while still making it a competitive option. Keep up the good work!
I agree crossbows need help, and I like what you've done here. I hope you do the guns video - I run an Alt-History Colonial America Spellpunk campaign, so guns exist in the campaign.
Regarding the crossbow passive, I'd make the bonus damage within 30' not 15' as a lot of effects seem tied to the 30' mark (such as Sneak Attack).
I'd love to see your gun system!
I’ve recently made a fighter subclass that focuses on throwing weapons. I made them do bigger damage die when at a specific range. It’s pretty cool and makes throwing weapons actually viable.
I love what you did here fixing the reload property of crossbows, really want to use this.
However, I might suggest one tweak, I noticed the property for the crossbow says 1 extra damage die, which would only be 1 extra d6 as worded.
I was thinking about it and if you want a mini buff for the crossbows....make the damage die 1d12 instead of 2d6. It does make the damage a bit more random....but the crossbow property would then be an extra 1d12 of damage. Then any creature with the new piercer feat would get an extra 1d12 of damage on top of that.
The reload mechanic ties well into repeating crossbows. Also, the 1d8 crossbow is a simple weapon, it would be equivalent to the short bow, so its damage dice are double its equivalent when you apply this homebrew. The equivalent to the longbow is the heavy crossbow, so if we take the same approach, of scaling down the dice one size, and doubling it, we would have 2d8, double the dice of the longbow.
Correction about the wording of your active ability for crossbows: one weapon damage die, as seen on the half orc or the barbarian, means 1 die! not one roll of the damage. thats why barbarians use greataxes, and not greatswords!
So I've personally always thought that bows and crossbows as a 3 die weapon. 1 for bow lbs 1 for broadhead sharpness and 1 for build type (IE EFOC vs High speed type builds) so the way I figure is a standard build would be 40lbs (D4) average sharpness, sharpened within a couple of days (D4) and a standard arrow with a normal FOC and gpi of 7-9 (D4)
Now a heavier bow means higher die, but I would argue that they need to work up to a heavier bow or introduce a feat that would allow this without negatives, however I think this should only cap at D6 or D8.
The highest the sharpness rating can go imo is D8, that's freshly sharpened with advanced knowledge on sharpening.
And finally arrow build. Now the EFOCs, extreme front of centers (weight distribution forward of the center of the arrow) should only give you that D6 at max, however, the drawback is that you lose range significantly. High FOC arrows drop like a Dickens. And Speedy type arrows aren't LESS lethal, they just do things differently.
Now this is how I see bows if they stated them like real life. It's less fun imo and pedantic. Just wanted to chip my two pennies in the hat lol
Crossbows do have a bigger damage dice. Not a dramatically higher, but it is higher. Short bows are a d6, long bows are a d8, light crossbows are a d8, heavy crossbows are a d10. It has been like that since at least third edition. The damage was never the problem.
I like the crossbow rules because it lets you get one shot off with the crossbow and then pull out a melee weapon.
Thats how I always use a crossbow in Skyrim.
I think this type of depth is necessary to develop a better game experience to all, but the in game system is too strict for that type of change. With the changes the crossbow still does less damage, even though it takes constant use of bonus action to be able to get close to matching the damage when using a bow. Also this change also makes the use of crossbow too chunky for rogues and strait up makes using crossbow as a secondary weapon unfeasible.
I would love to see what you did for Slings!
That's pretty close to what i did for my own ttrpg unrelated to DnD ( until the passives, that is because proficiencies are trash), glad to see those wern't isolated ideas.
Slings could use a major damage and range overhaul because I'm not sure if anyone has ever seen how destructive a sling can be, but they are pretty scary against targets if the user knows what they're doing. Slings were used in actual warfare effectively at 400m (1300 feet), so they should have a range just beyond the longbow (which historically was used to engage at 300-350m or 1050 feet). My proposed change for range is 200/750 if were following the Player's Handbook.
Given that slings can be launched at over 60mph with a half pound-palm sized rock, I'd propose a D6 (rocks) or D8 (ammunition) damage with proficiency damage added to targets outside of 30 feet wearing natural, medium, heavy or stone armor (due to the bludgeoning factor). They should also have the same property as the bow to use additional attacks to freely disengage targets. They can be used with a shield and never need ammunition unless decided otherwise (you could hurl a cursed object or a jewel for further effects maybe?).
On the downside, they need space to operate, so targets or obstacles within 5 feet will impose disadvantage on user attacks.
Slings should feel deadly if used right and should be a primary option to defeat bows on an open battlefield given that they can outrange bows and be used with shields allowing for better defense. They should be tough to employ in enclosed spaces.
Slings | Cost: 1sp | 1d6 bludgeoning | Ammunition (if bullets are used 1d8) (Range 200/750)
A heavy crossbow (1d10) has a larger weapon die than a longbow (1d8). To make up for the loading property
Some ideas off the top of my head:
Like the greatbow that requires dex for attack and strength for damage, this could be the case for longbows. Shortbows could remain dex/dex.
All crossbows could take out the strength requirement, so just dex/dex even for heavy.
Alternatively, make bow range strength based. Shortbow range = Str*5; Longbow = Str*10. Crossbow flat distance.
These have been great!! I love all the DND weapon changes you are proposing!
Short Bow: Simple, 1d6
Long Bow: Martial, 1d8
Hand Crossbow: Martial, 1d6
Light Crossbow: Simple, 1d8
Heavy Crossbow: Simple: 1d10
The divider is supposed to be the proficiency in them, and the hand crossbow is usually meant to be an off hand attack accompanying others, although there are some people that build some slick gun-slinger type builds with it, especially with the Crossbow Expert feat
Fantastic mechanics
Why thank you!! 💜
all of this weapon system overhall is jast what i always wanted. nonspellcasters always seemed to dull to me to play. the only thung I will change is the cost for the active abillity, because we play most at low levels and it takes a while to have 2 attacks in game(lvl 5). I think I will tie it to fighting style, and now rogue will be able to get those stuff with a feat or level in fighter (or slowly with the perks) when he trained in game to master a single style of fighting. I'm not sure but it is all quite dope. thanks for teaching me how to make the game more fun and flexible to every one in my table(:.
I think that if a crossbow user doesn't move, the time it would take you to move is spent on reloading, and if they move, they'll have to spend a BA or reaction. The crossbow expert then will enable that user to reload on the go, removing the need to spend resources on reloading
A few years ago I had a similar idea, and extended it to flint lock weapons. Crossbow's did more damage but had a "reloading" property for lower rate of fire. Flintlock guns did even more damage than crossbows, but had the "reloading" and "hangfire 5" properties. Here's what hang fire looks like: ua-cam.com/video/jF64NeEtZy0/v-deo.html
Hangfire 5 = When you attack using a weapon with the hangfire property, reduce your initiative by 5. If your initiative becomes negative increase it by 20. Resolve the weapon's attack when your initiative comes up. Magical weapons enhancement bonuses reduce hangfire time, i.e. a +2 flintlock rifle would have hangfire 3.
Let’s get this vid to 1200 likes guys! I’ve got a gunslinger in my party and I would love to share those new rules with him!
How about slings and javelins?
This is fun, by the way. Thank you for thinking hard about this stuff.
Just going to say history shows that the speed of a long bow does more damage over time. I think you did it right with 2d6.
I genuinely loved almost everything in this video. The only one I felt iffy on is the final crossbow ability. The main reason is that taking advantage to deal double damage is a statically worse option than just firing twice. It frees up your bonus to reload, but it falls short beyond that.
If you were two attack twice, then you have two opportunities to hit, and still deal something. With all or nothing, you have a slightly higher chance of dealing nothing. It's pretty negligible, but it's almost the same issue as true strike. Plus, if both rolls would hit, then you're missing out on prof mod damage and, possibly, Sharpshooter damage. Overall it's still pretty solid, just feels a bit off on that one.
But, to bring in your idea on higher crit chance, if I were to run this, I may make it so that in the event both rolls would hit, the attack crits.
combined with the damage-reducing armor from his other video though, the one big wallop is actually a much better option than attacking the same enemy twice (since the ar applies per hit, not per damage die)
@@joshridinger3407 I had considered that option. But, he's stated multiple times that this is meant to be modular. You're correct. But, if this is meant as a compendium of plug and play Variant Rules then they need to be talked about in a vacuum. As an individual option, that ability is a little weak, unfortunately. At least, in my opinion. But, others are free to disagree with me.
But, in terms of if it is used with the other system. I'd still personally go with two attacks. You stand to get either one that beats EC for half, and one that beats AC for full, getting 75%. Or both meeting AC and getting full. While the other option would give marginal bonuses to meeting EC for, effectively, one full hit or hitting AC for a double. It's a lot of risk/reward, but not using it has better consistent output of damage. Which, shouldn't be the reason you play. But, as a martial class, you have made a choice and have far less utility for other ways to be helpful beyond skills.
Basically, assuming two attacks, you'd have a higher likelihood of getting 75% damage from firing twice than you would of getting 100% damage from firing once.
@@T-Mobull yes it's modular, but that means both evaluations are valid. this subsystem is more useful if the ar subsystem is also used. if your enemy's armor+shield is likely to shave 6-10 points off of each hit (chainmail - to - plate+shield), and your choice is between two attacks that do 1-8 damage or one attack that does 2-16, the latter is clearly superior.
if the ar is not used, it's slightly inferior to slightly superior, depending on the other perks of the one big attack (e.g. bleed, knockback, advantage on the next attack, or whatever depending on the weapon)
@@joshridinger3407 Like I said, you're correct. It is a good system when using the alt armor mechanics as well. Both evaluations are valid. However, if it's meant to be modular,, then while discussing it's usefulness, it should be discussed as a singular thing.
In terms of average damage, in general, taking two shots is more effective in both cases. It really comes down to how that player wants to play their character. If they want to be a Babe Ruth type combatant, it's definitely really good. But, if they just want to be reliably good in combat, it's a bad option.
Edit: I hadn't noticed the part where you addressed the AR aspect. That's a solid point. However, I don't think that the ability it gets should be marginally useful or actively hindering in most cases, and only functional in niche ones. Especially when the functional version is if you're also using an optional rule change. Because, at that point, it makes that change a necessity.
I already have your weapons and armor PDF, maybe I'm a dumb dumb and missed it (very possible) but do you have this system available on PDF? I can't find it.
It’s in the very top of the description right after the intro paragraph
For Pathfinder all crossbows are simple (iirc) but you don't add any modifiers to the damage (i don't remember if you need to load them)
You repeatedly say that "bows and crossbows both 1d6, 1d8 damage"... but Heavy Crossbows already do a d10 compared to a Longbow's d8.
Stepping that up by one in exchange for changing the Loading Property sounds good, Heavy Crossbow does 2d6 (I also like changed damage curve for crossbows), Light Crossbow does... 2d4? There aren't d5s... Light Crossbow is nearly the same average damage of a Longbow now. Hand crossbows (which, honestly, were only included for the Crossbow Expert Feat) do.... a d6 still?
Switching the damage to d12, d10, d8 would ease that, but you lose the altered damage curve.
Hand Crossbows are back to the damage of a Longbow though, with 1/5th the range... maybe they don't get Disadvantage for being shot in melee by default?
@guamae
I added a 'Strongbow' to my weapons with a dmg die of d10.
So the ends math for me is this:
Handx-bow: 2d4
Lightxbow: 2d6
Heavy Xbow: 2d8
Shortbow: d6 (Str11)
Longbow: d8 (Str 13)
Strongbow: d10 (Str16)
I added the variant of using a strength prequesite for bows too, worked well. No complains by the Party :)
Greets Dephtor
Nice!
I didn’t understand stand the reload mechanic either, so I literally came up with the same home brew reload for my players.
The close combat abilities should be on short bows and the hand crossbow then have the long range bonuses on the rest.
Also, the Chinese created a crossbow with a "magazine" that allowed for multiple quarrels to be loaded at once, dramatically increasing fire rate (albeit until it ran out). Maybe an idea for a future specialized item?
Bows are meant to be better than crossbows. Historically a trained Longbow man was much better than a crossbow man. The trade off was it was much easier to train crossbow usage. This actually reflected pretty well in the crossbow being a simple weapon and the bow being Martial. Most Martial melee weapons are flat out better than simple too. They just limited attacks instead of damage dice to show the difference. Also your reload is definitely more clunky than loading property as is.
Crossbows excelled where space was limited, or obstructed in some way. Even a slight obstruction to a bow limb on release will throw off the aim of a longbowman. If you were in cover in a castle it was much easier to shoot a crossbow down at the enemy from that cover than a longbow.
@@FrostSpike Prone. You might see an archer on one knee, with a horizontal bow, but only a crossbow is firing while prone....
I'd like to see an ability or maneuver for ranged weapons like crossbow and longbow that reduces the target's movement, similar to Ray of Frost cantrip.
Noted, gonna add this to my DM Binder.
Anyone complaining about it being to complicated for a martial class, make a sticky note about it or make a card similar to the official WotC spell cards. Heck, there’s a product recommendation for yah!
*Kickstarter sirens begin to go*
From 5th level this solution is great. Problem is from level 1 to level 4. Yes you must use BA to reaload, but for example fighter dont have much use for BA, specialy with range weapon. Using for example heavy crosbow and hit every turn for 2d8 is kinda OP.
how would the Crossbow Feat effect this style of crossbow use?
It's been reworked in his PDF.
@@eddieblanton2981 good to know, once it's been released to where a penny pincher like me can get it I'll look at it, thanks. fyi problematic times call for less-than-liked methods.....
Great ideas! The crossbow is much more interesting this way!
Since the damage is slightly lower, why not just keep the original dmg die for them?
Crit on 19 seems interesting too but requires more investigation.
The close range damage is fantastic. I was considering this for knife throwing but it sounds just as good for crossbows.
That said I think the active abilities, though flavorful are a bit too much.
Ex crossbow shot with adv and double the dice, has better chance for crit. If it crits the goes to 8d6! Waaay too much for 1 attack. Imagine if we let crossbows crit on 19. Or if a player multiclasses into rogue with even more dice due to sneak attack.
Unless perhaps these active abilities are somehow locked behind some sort of requirement.
One idea is to have a revised weapon master feat unlock abilities like this.
Though keep in mind that the fighter (not always a fighter) using the active ability of a crossbow to potentially get that 8d6 from a crit, is at least level 5. Level 5 fighters now can compete a lot better with say....Fireball, which does 8d6 at the base spell level.
The fighter and the caster both are using a single action to unload a truck's worth of damage, and the fighter still loses in this scenario no matter what. They have to hit in the first place (1), they have to crit (2), and they can only hit a single target, barring some super unique feature or feat (3). The caster just has to aim the Fireball properly and they cause damage no matter what (again, barring certain features, immunities, or feats), don't need to rely on a crit, and can hit a lot of creatures.
But considering the fact that the extra attack sacrifice sounds like it could be used every turn, that could still be 4d6 every shot. That's comparable to 2 greatsword swings in one shot. I don't mind the idea of the spiky damage from sacrificing an attack, I will admit to it being done every round is a bit much. Put a limiter on this special attack that it needs a "standard action" equivalent to reload afterwards. Can't bonus action reload. So you do 4d6 on a normal hit, next round only let's you do 2d6 for 6d6 total. This way, bows can still do 4d8 in the same two rounds.
If the active effect required sacrificing an attack, it could only be used by martial classes above 5th level.
I've go to admit you guys made some good points :)
Perhaps its not that bad after all.
@@danwebber9494 or subclasses with slightly martial focus, like a bladesinger wizard, so it would be level 6. But those classes still have better uses than a single hit for up to 8d6 lol
Not to mention this sounds like an opening idea, one that still needs fleshing out
So, Dungeon Master's Guide Page 267, the Reload Property, You just changed one of the options from "Action" to "Attack" which I think is a good idea.
In my current campaign, there is a Rogue, a Battlemaster/Rogue, a Warlock, a Cleric, and a Bard. The Rogue uses Hand Crossbows and has Crossbow Expert; she occasionally snipes from long range with a heavy crossbow. The Battlemaster/Rogue... uses a heavy crossbow. The cleric has... a heavy crossbow. (The Bard throws darts, and the warlock uses Eldritch Blast.) No bows among them, even for the DEX-based BM/R who has martial proficiency. And I'm not using any homebrew for ranged weapons (yet). Crossbow doesn't need any help, especially for a SIMPLE weapon that does 1d10, at range (not 1d8).
The pure Rogue uses her hand crossbows a lot in melee, thanks to Crossbow Expert (and a story-based set of special gauntlets that explain her ease-of-loading); she only pulls out her sword for specific situations. She certainly doesn't need an upgrade - maybe a downgrade.
My fellow player/DM and I were thinking that - like many others online - bows have STR minimums while crossbows are for the pure-dex and low-trained. On the plus side (balancing the STR min), the bow is faster for the skilled (5th level martials and up), and adds the STR modifier to damage (as well as DEX). Crossbows never get faster, keeping them relegated to the untrained; and in fact, heavy crossbows will end up even slower.
And, FYI, because of Tasha's, Rogues get Steady Aim as Bonus Action: advantage on an attack instead of Movement. Letting them also inflict double-damage on the strike (an auto-crit) is... excessive.
The pdf does not have hand crossbows. Is that intentional? What do you do / think about them? Love the content and excited to have it as an option for my players!
Would it be over powered to allow your reaction to load the crossbow on a 2 attack round? < Action-Fire x-bow >< Action-Fire x-bow> < reaction - reload >. This makes the crossbow an " all in " type weapon.
Hmmmm I’d give a bonus perk of that probably around level 6+, yea
Sweet!
They could have added an accessory to make light and heavy crossbows repeating with a maximum of five shots before needing a reload.
I like these ideas but for me I would swap the passives. For me the fantasy of a crossbow man is the slow heavy hits that feel more reminiscent of a sniper. And a bowman (if you’re not trying for a sniper as well) is more interesting as a mid fight fighting weapon. Also I kind of like the idea of expanding the close range to 30ft and having a fighter who has to manage their movement to keep in range and avoid being targeted (kiting) but if the mess up their in trouble. As is that archer would get targeted immediately and they have little options to avoid it without higher level abilities or magic.
All around sensible Homebrew, still, how does Repeating Shot infusion work with the crossbows?
How do you deal with firing crossbows while in the prone???
Usually I have attacks made while prone be at DisADV BUT if a character practices it in RP I’d give em a straight roll 👌🏼
I think downgrading then doubling the dice is great but I am also sad it co.es to less damage, even if it results in more consistent average damage.
What if the crossbow doubles your ability mid for the damage. So if you have a +3 dexterity mod that's +6 to damage. Or it could let you add a different ability score on top of dexterity, my suggestion would be wisdom since it's perception. So you'd do the die + dexterity + wisdom.
There's a lot of ways to take this.
I think the range of a longbow should be determined by your strength score Plus usual distance of the longbow but that's what I think what do you think
I love your videos and ideas, but all your PDF materials come to me as really pricey. PHB costs less than twice as much as your Martial Gear and Combat Overhaul PDF, which I think is an outrageous price (especially converting to my native currency). Anyway you have great ideas and tons of positive energy, keep up the good work
As soon as I am able to go full time, I plan on dropping the prices on all of my material FOR SURE! Currently I am working 2 full time jobs and have a 1 year old, so trying to chase after this and need some more things in place before I can, because yes, I want to 👍🏼👌🏼
Thanks for the constructive criticism
@@TheDungeonCoach Understandable, have a nice day
I love most of this, except for one factor: the passive ability of a crossbow. I get what you are going for, but historically crossbows were not often used in the same range as polearms.
The key difference in how they fire is that a crossbow bolt’s trajectory is much flatter than a regular arrow, largely due to the much heavier draw weight and partly due to the heavier bolt. (War arrows are heavier than hunting arrows, but crossbow bolts are heavier still.)
Not sure how best to work that into your system, but having the damage bonus kick in at 15 feet feels way too close.
I did not know this about crossbows! I will have to tinker around some more possibly 👍🏼 great feedback
@@TheDungeonCoach Perks of being a historical reenactor, lol. I've spent a fair bit of time firing both regular bows and historical reproduction crossbows. This flatter trajectory is a lot of why crossbows are known to have a shorter range than standard bows, as the short, heavy bolt is pulled to the ground faster.
Mister Right below is also spot on with his commentary about training times, but there's another factor worth considering: crossbows have much more penetrative power. Unlike a 120-150# warbow, a winch-loaded crossbow can have as much as 1200# of force. This enables them to potentially shoot completely through properly made plate armor, and into the next guy behind the one wearing the armor. These two factors combined (training time and draw weight) is why the first ranged weapon regulations ever created were about crossbows, because suddenly a commoner with minimal training could kill a mounted knight with a single shot. This is why I'm 100% on board with a stricter Loading/Reload property with significantly improved damage, as you laid out.
Finally, and this is part of the training time, crossbows are generally more accurate (or at least easier to aim) than standard bows, due to a variety of reasons. (most notable are the lack of an "archer's paradox" effect, and the capacity to mount/use firearm-style sights.) This is why I would be in favor of increasing the crit chance for crossbows as their passive ability. (Maybe limit that feature to only work in "normal" range but not long range?) Alternatively, perhaps an extra bonus (half proficiency, maybe?) to hit within a limited range? (maybe normal range, maybe something shorter.)
Crossbows could have reduced target's AC, simulating that crossbows you can aim for much longer than bows.
I don't think it being too complicated is a drawback. If you like fighters the way they are and you don't want to use a complicated crossbow rule, don't use crossbows. Pick up the sharp metal and swing it at people. Combat is complicated so this actually makes a lot of sense. I think cuz crossbows are generally more expensive they should do more damage on average anyway. Also you could probably put a lot more tension on the string of a crossbow than you can a bow and it still be usable.
Wait that long bow disengage doesn’t really make sense as the enemy would be to far away to make an attack of opportunity. Think you mean Dash? As that would let you move around to get away from the enemy that is more than 10 feet away
Yeah! Guns too please!
I feel like the crossbow should be the sniper and the bow the more guerrilla warfare weapon.
Dungeon Couch I have a question. What are the damage dices for Heavy crossbow?
Because I think you were only working on the light crossbow with 2d6 weapon damage. And a Hand Crossbow with a 2d4 . So I'm assuming that a heavy crossbow would have a 2d8 damage to feel different but I don't know it's kind of problematic since it would pass 12 which is the highest based damage a heavy weapon can do. Maybe it would have been better if you just raised each crossbow damage die by one. And if you wanted to make it feel distinct from the bow. Than make it roll two or three damage dices per weapon.
For example:
Hand Crossbow 2d4
Light crossbow 1d6+1d4
Heavy crossbow 2d6 or 3d4
Lastly can you make a video talking about what modification you have in mind for throwing weapons? I would love to hear your thoughts on the topic.
Hay, I noticed that you said Lights would be 2d4 from the Heavy's 2d6, so I was wondering what your sulsion for hand cross bows were. (Also sorry, if you had already answered this but I was trying to go threw all the comments and didn't see it.)
Repeating crossbows existed. They weren't COMMON afaik, and you still had to pull the mechanism back by hand or a crank, but there's still no reason why a crossbow HAS to be 1 attack per turn.
I am unsure about giving crossbows a comparatively higher damage output per shot. Unless it's the kind that requires a time-consuming winch, they should not have the same amount of power. I'd rather people lean into their ease of use. Maybe they can be shot once at disadvantage when taking the dash or dodge action action due to being a one-handed less-demanding firearm. Pair that with the reload on bonus action idea and it would make it an interesting weapon for Rogues. Or maybe they do not have disadvantage if enemies are within 5 feet.
I like how you changed Loading into Reloading and how it works. It is so disappointing that there are feats for ignoring part of the game. Crossbow Expert allowing players to ignore the loading property was so annoying. The same thing with Sharpshooter allowing you to ignore cover is just as stupid to me. As a DM, if a player has Sharpshooter I don't bother having my baddies use cover unless it can get complete cover. It's like Ranger features that just make them ignore aspects of travel and exploration instead of building on to it and making it interesting or Evocation Wizards not having to worry about friendly fire anymore.
Is nobody going to talk about how he used a bonus action in the middle of an action?
I would 100% let a player take an action to attack, bonus action reload, and then make their 2nd attack... I dont think of the players as robots inputting commands
I MUST TAKE A FULL ACTION THEN A FULL BONUS ACTION etc :)
Thats why I always say "think outside the box" limiting this just seems like "too much" for me
@@TheDungeonCoach You defending your own homebrew decision Is kind of unnecessary since you made a whole video about it lol.
As a suggestion though I would make it clear that it only applies to the reload mechanic. Unless you let people break up their movement also during attacks and bonus actions etc. Then again perhaps an entire video of lumping everything together and showing alternative ways to change up a player's action economy could be fruitful.
Please don't take this as I'm a rules lawyer but to help clarify your message. As a long time GM I like your energy and see myself in you when I would much younger. Keep up the good work!