Who said it: God or an abuser?
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- Опубліковано 17 чер 2023
- Seth Andrews and Forrest Valkai expose god for what it is: an abuser
#religion #moral #christianity
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My favorite part of the bible is when god gave people free will and then killed everyone for using it.
Performing likely thousands if not tens of thousands of abortions in the process!
My favourite part is when he takes away free will by "hardening their heart" and punishes them for doing what he wanted them to do. Example: pharaoh, Baalam.
The god of the bible and free are mutualy exclusive, it takes ages for them to understand that.
My favorite part is if your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or if a close friend secretly entices you to worship another god, your hand must be the first to kill them. -Deuteronomy 13:6.
@@Danny451 wow, so no one can proselytization by others, but they can proselytize. Looks like Judaism of the ancient days was closer to Islam of today.
People don't see the abuse when they're so deep in the relationship.
That's why I call it's adherents religious Stockholm syndrome sufferers.
You know the consequences of your actions He gave us a book you choose not to accept Don’t whine bc you want to condone sinful actions
That's very true. Or, they do see it but also believe they deserve it. I know I believed it, so glad I got out of that mess. Religion and the abusive relationship...
@@Authenticallyathena it’s been amazing for me going by the rules He set in stone I’ve had a great relationship
@@MamaB07 Super happy for you. I'm all about people finding what makes their lives better or brings them joy. Doesn't have to be the same as mine, it just needs to work for them.
If a human said "Do as I command you or I'll lock you in the basement torture chamber" we'd call the police, and rescue the victim.
Yet when god does it people are desperate to make excuses for how it's really the utmost sign of love.. honest...
If an abuser said "Do as I command you or you'll be locked in a cell"... Yet when a police officer says it people are desperate to make excuses for how it's the utmost necessity...
Disclaimer: This is not a fair comparison. God is all-holy, and the is not. God is all-knowing, and no human is. God is all-good, and humans are corrupt. God is truly just, but human judges are not. You would have to multiply holiness, goodness, authority, justice, and merit by infinity.
@@someman7no, the law doesn't lock you in a torture chamber for all of eternity, and the police officer doesn't throw you in jail for not liking the cops. If you murder someone in broad daylight, then you'd be taken away because you're a danger to someone else. You're not going to be thrown in jail because you are gay, or trans, or because you follow a religion of the officer doesn't like - at least not in civilized society.
@@someman7if ANYONE said "love me, or ill trap you in a cell, its not right
Which literally confirms god does not exist nor anything similar could ever exist
@@acfkelly6291 You're missing the point, my friend. God is not "anyone". God is transcendental Good Himself. If you say "I won't love you" to the One who is Good, you are essentially rejecting all good. That's quite an important difference, wouldn't you say?
Seth has such a great knack of saying it exactly how it is, highlighting the inanity that doesn’t even occur to many.
It's actually more impactful realizing he was a former Christian and radio host personality.
Christians need to realize many Atheists were Christians themselves once just like them.
Believed like they do
Same world view
Worshipped the same god
They were Christians who completed their journey out of Religion into Atheism.
He sounds crazy bc he’s a man and God is not
@@MamaB07 Oh, I got such a laugh out of the irony of your comment.
@@Letts_prey 😳ooookkkk😬
"The devil can quote Scripture for his purpose."
“See what you made me do!”
"You sent yourself to hell."
"You ate from the tree that I put within your reach for no reason?"
SLAP
@@DrumWildbullshit
@@Jason-yj2sb so what your saying is god forced knowledge and responsibility on us?
@@Jason-yj2sb If this god that you think that you believe exists is omniscient (free will no longer exists as this being knows everything), and omnipotent(has the ability to do ANYTHING), then there is no excuse to be made with your apologetics. For all the knowledge and power that this god has, and still did nothing. Not exactly what I'd call a very competent deity.
Lucky for all of us that
God does not exist
The answer is "yes". God is an abuser in thr mythology
Ikr, I'm like "this is literally both"
por que no los dos?
@@nondescriptcat5620 followed by cheering Hispanic people and tacos
"The devil can quote Scripture for his purpose."
"The devil can quote Scripture for his purpose."
Hence the reason why I am divorced and became an atheist and left fundamental church…. 🤣😂🤣😂
😌👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾✨ Livin' your best life!! 🥳🥳🥳 That's beautiful! 🌿✨💖✨🏵️
Congratulations 🎉
"The devil can quote Scripture for his purpose."
I had a coworker that she will arrive to work full of bruises and several times with a black eye. She always had a excuse to cover the abuse of her husband. But shocking that when you heard her talking about her husband, you got the impression that this gay was a saint. This lasted up to the day she was hospitalized with two broken ribs and her face almost disfigured. Even in the hospital she claimed that it was a car accident that caused the wounds. But this time her neighbor recorded the attack and reported it to the police. Why do people do this I have no idea. But this person had very low esteem, she felt worthless because this was exactly what the abuser told her every day. Don’t this sound familiar?
I had a co-worker turn up to work like this 20 years ago at least.
The six men who worked there promptly clocked out for ... lunch and went around to her HOME to help ... renovate the slimy, mouldy, health concerning disease trapping her.
This woman is still my friend and now has 2 beautiful children and a great guy who loves her. BAM!
@@AlBundyOz - good for you guys. Great job. If there was more of this there would be less abuse
A lot of abuse victims are victims of their parents' abuse too. They have believed they deserve the abuse all their lives.They believe they are the problem, that they just need to fix the situation by being better, more obedient and more submissive.
That's why a lot abuse victims don't leave. They have condition since childhood to think they are worthless, and if they are just good enough the abuser will change and treat them better.
All people think that sacrifice will remove their guilt until they learn that forgiveness does.
Get em while they're young
You can't condition an adult who didn't grow up believing this isn't abuse language
Much less likely but Stockholm syndrome?
@@duncanbryson1167you're right it is much less likely. Especially since stockholm syndrome has been largely debunked.
You can, but it's a lot harder and you have to focus on really troubled and desperate individuals.
@@duncanbryson1167 Not quite. S.S. sufferers know they're prisoners, and they're only trying to get on their captor's good side. Childhood PTSD survivors however, have normalized this logic, and wind up in other abusive relationships simply because they often don't know better when the red flags show up.
@duncanbryson1167
Stockholm syndrome is more of a fear response and the relationship doesn't necessarily have to include any kind of abuse... battered spouse syndrome is more along the lines of conditioning... children growing up in homes where there was abuse are conditioned to accept abuse as a way of life and even as an expression of love
Even where there isn't overt abuse, having it implied that something bad could happen if you don't do certain things... or if you do certain things... is still conditioning
Overwhelmed with love. Such a sweet talker this god fellow is.
The friend you never knew you needed 😢
@@TrickOrRetreatAnd an invisible friend on top of that.
God is the source of all goodness. But atheists treat him like another creature. He is transcendental Being Himself, on whom we all depend. But atheists paint him like themselves, blown up and made to float somewhere in space.
Let me see if I can make you understand, not that I think you really want to: Imagine goodness itself said "Be good or be bad". And you reply: "How dare you pose this ultimatum to me, goodness? You're a tyrant and you are in the wrong! Imagine anyone else threatened like that! I now know that I am better able to judge right from wrong than you, I know things that are bad that are right, and things that are good that are bad". That's what you' all are doing here. And then you pat each other on the back for this nonsense. Where did the critical thinking you claim and seeking understanding go?
@@someman7did you even hear this short? No absolutely not. Also according to your scripture, your god is the source of all evil as well.
@@someman7 God is the source of all goodness? Well maybe you can help me out. I have this neighbor of mine who insists working on the Sabbath. However, in Exodus 35:2, it clearly says he must be put to death. Am I morally obligated to stone him to death, or should I just call the cops and let them do it?
God is unworthy of my love and worship
this is exactly why i only worship Bastet, Mother of Cats.
👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾😌✨
@@nondescriptcat5620😂 I can't decide between her, or the original Dionysus (the force-of-nature version favored by the marginalized, rather than by the rich).
Wow, God bless you
This was literally how I got out of Christianity. I was like "wait this is abusive" and I LEFT
And I still felt pressured to stay after that, I had a ton1 of intrusive thoughts and it was like I was arguing with God, no, I'm not coming back, this isn't healthy
I REALLY had to come to a place where I was like, enough's enough, this is making me unhappy and I'm done with it
Christians and other religions have incorporated the same abusive manipulation down the centuries to everyone around them who rejected their religions.
It's honestly no wonder so many christians have a problem with psychology 😅
Scientists over here studying the brain, determining what experiences and behaviors cause harm and dysfunction, and -- OOPS! Uhh, looks like 90% of how god (and many of his followers) talks and acts are actually terribly unhelpful! 😮 ...
^^; I'd probably freak the fuck out and start calling people 'over-educated', too.
And, just like an abuse victim that is still in the relationship, if you tell the Christian about it... they will defend their abuser and makes all kinds of excuses for it.
I’m a Christian. There is nothing abusive at all in my relationship with God. And I’ve been a victim of abuse throughout my entire childhood and throughout several unhealthy relationships in early adulthood, so I’m very familiar with what abuse is. I am amazed though how when I became a Christian all those abusive relationships quickly dissolved and all those abusive people just disappeared out of my life. I felt like I had been rescued, because I had. And if anything, I’m the abusive one for grieving God’s heart every day by sinning against Him.
@@rl13b99aaaaaaaand you didnt notice...
You sin against god,
But god is the one responsible for giving you the circumstances to sin.
Its like an abuser putting food in front of a really hungry abused victim, then telling them not to eat it.
Then gets mad when the hungry victim takes a little bite.
So the abuser sends the victim in a torture chamber for eternity.
god creates our circumstances, according to christian lore. And he gets angry when you do exactly as he PREDICTED you would do.
Christians arent very good at realizing that they are being abused...
@@hakureikura9052 aaaaaaaand you didn’t notice…
God gives you His air to breath, makes His rain fall on the earth, gives you food, clean water, etc., and in His great mercy and love even sends His very son to take the punishment you deserve for all the crimes you’ve committed against Him, yet you have the arrogance to call Him the abuser.
God waits patiently for us with open arms calling us to repentance, yet we spit in His face and reject Him. My friend, you and I are the abusers.
“because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,”-Romans 1:21-22
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”-John 3:16
So god created the world but didn't know it was round?
And that it rotates around the sun?
Check out Jim Jeffries
"Religion Explained"
Think about how *liberating* and *freeing* it is to *leave an abusive relationship.*
A lot of times it's the *same with religion.*
And you’re right. I left religion about a year now and God six months ago. The freedom I had in religion was nothing compared to the freedom I felt leaving it all behind. No more imaginary gun behind my head when making any decisions n my life. To be able to think for my self and make my own decisions for me….. tops it all. And that doesn’t mean I’m selfish now but I do know my own values where as before, he was right. I was worthless, meaningless piece of meat who only has meaning in life if I do what God wants even if it goes against my nature. It sucks bad but I’m so glad I no longer have that relationship with an imaginary being.
Religion, absolutely. Christianity is a whole different thing.
@@mattsutman1154 Christianity “IS” a religion. And that’s the religion I left. But I’m glad it was great for you. I remember when it was great for me as well. Until I found out the flaws. But for your sake let’s hope you won’t have to find those.
@@paulolosi1452 nope. Sorry you may have been misled, but it’s not a religion.
Do you know what religion is?
@@mattsutman1154 well I do but you sound like you have the true definition of a religion. Please, by all means, open the scriptures unto me. I’m actually open minded so you might change my mind.
God is the greatest gaslighter of all!
From the time I was a small child I'd hear my father verbally abusing my mother and think "Why don't you just LEAVE him, Mom ?"
It was obvious (to me) that my father was bitterly jealous of me because I "stole" my mother's attention away from him. But for some never-explained reason, she insisted on remaining married to that thug for more than 50 years.
It never occurred to me that the words of her painfully boring religion contained her value system and the justification for staying with a man who was not only selfish and immature but incapable of giving or accepting love.
Religion has a LOT to be ashamed of -- it contains some of the worst aspects of our species and encourages an unforgivable level of cruelty that benefits only the powerful. If I hadn't been bored and embarrassed by the ridiculous teachings that are an essential part of "getting into heaven" I might still be trapped, allowing myself to be victimized the way she was, and for the same idiotic reason: "Jesus LOOOOVES me and wants me to join him for eternity!"
Sadly, biblical "eternity" was as appealing as North Korea, and religion and I quickly parted ways when I escaped from under Mom's thumb.
A lot of abuse victims are victims of their parents' abuse too. They have believed they deserve the abuse all their lives.They believe they are the problem, that they just need to fix the situation by being better, more obedient and more submissive.
That's why a lot abuse victims don't leave. They have conditioned since childhood to think they are worthless, and if they are just good enough the abuser will change and treat them better.
God admitted it. "I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me," Exodus 20:5
Sooo ... it's both!
It is absolutely both 🙆🏾♀️💯💯💯
The worst part is the abused Christian say: But that's good of God, or that's love!!!
This falls under stockholm syndrome, sometimes associated with battered wife syndrome, where a wife would say: I deserved that.
What the hell is wrong with Christian men (and especially women) ?
Don't put up with this abuse, say *NO* God, NO.
Until you finally discover there's no evidence to meet the claim a God exists in the 1st place.
Until then, say: *NO*
I'll start it for you, I'm happy to protect you.
NO Jesus, *NO* DO NOT HURT ANY CHRISTIAN BELIEVER EVER AGAIN!
I wish Christians would realize this!
"Look what you made me do!"
Agree.
I always hear that "we were created to glorify God."
That's just weird and icky.
But he LOVES you! LOL!
Too Real!! 😂
religion is like an abusive relationship
I saw the abuse after 50 years so I left. unfortunately still see abuse in the world, but my life is better
Well said! I wish more believers could acknowledge this...
I’ve often thought of this. I try to point it out to Christians all the time.
It’s an abusive relationship, classic words, used to control and abuse people, and then promise on some thing at the end “heaven “
Actually the answer is both. I've heard abusers say the same thing.
Hadn't heard it put that way but it's a spot on parallel.
The answer is: Yes
Excellent comparison.
I sometimes think the writers of the old testament actually wanted people to think how horrible their god was but had to appease him if they believed it prevented their own destruction. That's why you see god in the OT killing people (because he gets off of it), including the Israelites while being called love by them despite barely demonstrating it.
I don't think they wanted people to think their god was horrible, I think it's more just a sign of the times they lived in. The ancient world was cruel, that was just an aspect of reality that got reflected in their deity.
If I recall correctly, he started as a storm god; for all the good storms and the rain they brought were to the ancient people they were also dangerous if not treated carefully, seems like a natural fit to make a storm into an abuser when giving it a personality.
@@WolforNuva Right, I also sometimes think it's like appeasement, which is why you have sacrifices and what not
yes. gods were simply thought of as irresistibly mighty beings with all the same virtues and vices as ordinary humans, and humans' only practical hope was in appeasing them.
Imagine making a religion out of " look what you made me do"
spot on!
In this case, the perp has even documented this acts of coercive control. Guilty all day long
burns you for eternity but he loves you.
This is why it’s so egregious to teach this BS to kids as if it’s true. This will have lasting effects on all their relationships.
Wow. It is the same! Powerful stuff. Thank you!
Yep, that's exactly narcissistic abuse language.
Then there's gaslighting, "You send yourself to hell."
Or, if we go with the battered wife or the abused child, "He/She beats me, because he/she loves me."
Spot on
bUt He LoVeS yOu
Carlin said it best.
and he needs money.
Sounds like a controling individual. We lock these people up. There is always abuse with this situation.
Don't forget: You must always fork over part of your earnings to me, for the rest of your life!
That sounds like an abuser
Damn that's good. Seth is always clear, concise, and truth.
The answer is not god, the answer is BOTH.
Even if someone proved the Abrahamic god existed, the max I would go to is “ok, he exists”…but worship him, hell no.
That's my wife that said that.
Brilliant!
Not to mention the flood, where - after a violent outburst - god gave us something pretty and promised never to do it again.
Religion and cruelty go hand in hand.
A God who says "All our righteousness are like filthy rags" is an abuser.
I love the common sense of Seth Andrews!
Awesome Seth. I keep saying that the parallels between "god" and a narcissistic abuser are uncanny. I've always been atheist, but I was raised by a narcissistic and abusive parent and it's chilling how similar it is to being raised within a fundamentalist religious sect.
Fascinating observation!! And absolutely true about the god of the bible!! "Never ever leave me or else!!!" Proof the god of the bible was invented by abusive men who sought complete control over others.
I wrote a song on this concept in like 2014. The lyrics sound like it's about an abusive relationship but it's just about God. Whoops, I get them confused all the time! Silly me!
Absolutely abuse language 100!!!
I know Christians who would proudly agree.
We are served as we serve and deserved as we deserve. I don't deserve goodness, so I have it.
This is very close to Darkmatter2525's "Abuser" video, which is very good and is probably more than any other single thing most directly responsible for my deconversion.
LOL.,.. I love this. Fundamentalism is by its nature abusive.
Nobody controls me. Not even God. It's me that controls me. Not God.
Well said, Seth. Noise it abroad so all the nations hear it.
Both. God IS an abuser.
Or just an abuser said it, because God isn't real and they need to stop outsourcing their conscience to other people and fictional characters as leaders and accountability partners.
What's the difference?
Truth
i was a fundamentalist christian for a long time. I also grew up in a very neglectful and narcissistically abusive household. I started going to therapy for trauma recovery and i was doing pretty well.
Then I would go to church and didnt know why i started having panic attacks during the sermons.
Its the same traumatic and abusive language, just wrapped up in Bible verses. (im an atheist now and my recovery is doing very well 😊👍🏼)
Same thing happened to me... Insane religion, super narcissistic religious mother... ugh. Therapy changed everything, but man it was rough before that.
I was hoping for specific verses and multiple phrases, making it more of a game show
Me too so I could expose how he took those verses completely out of context in order to make his emotionally charged, anger-driven, close minded, severely biased nonsensical argument sound better.
Exodus 20:5 - God admits it.
Love this….
He is oh so loving.
He is oh so wrathful.
Like a bad father huh
@@randomguy-yl2ml precisely.
Joke's on you,... Domestic Abusers pay taxes
Hard to pay taxes from jail
@@hahano9586
Look it up, yes they do
what about the Catholic church and multi -millionaire scamgelists?
@@AdmiralBison
What is this? A competition?
So, Not all Domestic Abusers pay taxes, satisfied?
How can religious people still defend this?
OMG I've tried to point this out to my Christian friends. Their response: but there are other passages in the bible that talk about how merciful god is.
omg, this sounds exactly like what a pedophile says to an abused child.
This is a really good comparison !!!👍
The Muslim religion is just the same message
Many Christians here don't like the idea they are actually in an abusive relationship with an imaginary/fictional god character.
Well, I am sorry for you, because reality and THE TRUTH can be harsh.
Atheists don't say this stuff because they believe in the god character (because they don't) they say this because YOU believe the god chacter in the Bible.
Wow what a powerful point! No wonder the members are brainwashed in the Christian org I was in. The tops were good in repeating these points, as if they are the god😅
Just watched a Christian apologist woman this this exact sort of BS about her god with a straight face.
Sir Sic was debunking her, but she was saying these exact same things.
Sic is awesome 🤟
Whatcha all the Christians respond with - But he's god he can do what he likes or some other bullshit cop out excuse
And a lot of *abused people* can't seem to get away from their *abuser.*
Or at least they *feel like they can't.*
I dunno what the stats for men are.
As for the stats for wives/girlfriends:
It can take as many as 10 attempts to get away.
Women are often killed by their partner either during the attempt, or directly after (at times, even multiple deaths of those who tried to help her are involved).
Oh, and, say the woman defends herself and injures or even kills their partner in the process, ah, well. She'll likely be thrown in jail for it.
Add in that their partners have usually already disabled them, isolated them so as to starve their support system, limited their access to helpful services, prevented them from getting a job so that they can support themselves...and you tend to have a near impossible situation for a victim yearning to get out.
Well said.
When you’re sooooo in love you’re the last one to see it😮😢
Just as abuse victims are too afraid to retaliate against their abuser so are religious people. They are so identified with their abuser that they don't know what they would be without them. Going against their abuser feels like going against themselves.
Read Job.....serious it reads like an over the top over dramatic abusive narrative
Amen!!!
I heard a pimp say that God was the greatest Mac of all. I just now figured out he correct.
Gross AF
And people still defend the god of the bible
You leave you die
My abusive ex said the exact same things to me. It was part of the reason I am an atheist today. I realized that my ex is a narcissist - Narcissism is a human thing - the god of the Bible is not real because he sounds like something another human had experience with - a narcissist.
Yes, correct
YOU DON’T KNOW WHAT LOVE IS 😂😭
Why do some people post intentionally vague comments?
Enlighten us oh master of the vague and useless comment
"God is good, he just has a bad temper and I deserve his wrath when I provoke him. I love God and I don't want to lose his spirit."
-God's domestically abused victim
@@mesplin3 😂 "He can change, I know he can, everyone says so!
All I have to do is be patient and obey every little thing he says even when it's stupid and harmful and false, and COMPLETELY ignore my own wants and needs forever. And then he'll finally care about me and love me....
...any year now..."
@@slickmcCool you don't know what love is, until it hits you in the face. Also, the master, is you
And the answer is both!
Seth is so right on😂
I’ll make you go through trial and tribulation, and codemn you to eternity, but it’s for your own good. What BS…
That was good. I will use that.
My favourite part is when he commanded a guy to kill his own son to prove his devotion.
My dad to my mum. Or god.
😅 ... this is part of how I realized it.
Finally read the bible _without_ the blinders on, took a look at god, took a look at my dad, and was like..... "Well wait just ONE gotdamn minute!!! 🤯😰🤔🤦🏾♀️"
Humans created this god in their image. This is why this god is depicted as having all the same emotional weaknesses and petty motivations that humans have.
Agree 💯%
Trick question: all of these things are things both god and an abuser would say, cuz god and an abuser are one in the same