EV market destroyed in Germany after the German Government did this...
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- Опубліковано 4 сер 2024
- EV market destroyed in Germany after the German Government did this...
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Considering the shaky economy, I'm keen to know best, how people split their pay, how much of it goes into savings, spendings or investments. I’d be retiring/working much less in 5 years, and sometimes earn up to $160K per year, but nothing to show for it yet.
thats personal, you should connect with an advisor for proper financial/investment planning, never can tell what the future holds
bravo! the whole markt has gone berserk now, almost not possible to outperform without expert guidance.. think your adviser would get on the phone with a newcomer? i'm in dire need of proper portfolio allocation ?
Thank you for this tip. It was easy to find your coach. Did my due diligence on her before scheduling a phone call with her. She seems proficient considering her resume.
Yes incompetent record inflation creating Joe Biden has destroyed the US economy. But he goes around telling lies and mumbling that the economy is doing great.
Sam - Germany has a budget crisis - they have to find a solution to that - EVs are not their current priority.
True. These imbeciles are busy shoveling cash instead into corrupt and failing Ukraine 😂😂
Funding someone else's war and feeding immigrants is their piority
But switching off nuclear and increasing coal burning sure was over the last few years. Funny how all that backfired.
NetZero has nothing to do with the environment. It will be used to erode freedoms and $$ from democracies.
Did you not watch the video? Money was given out regardless. They just chose to give it to old automakers instead of the better investment of EVs. Corruption is evident
There should be no subsidies from any vehicles, EV or otherwise
Germany mostly subsidizes auto manufacturing jobs.
Chinese ev’s are subsidized by the Chinese government. It would be hard for Europe to compete if they don’t increase the tariffs.
@@politicalbandit3904 It remains to be seen whether China can afford to subsidize anything with a real estate collapse that makes 2009 look mild.
@@wisenber I agree with your point of view. Also a lot of Chinese people have no jobs ☹️. That’s rife for chaos.
@p: Revenue tariffs. I mean, goods sold in the USA have to pay VAT.
EV's need to stand on their own. Their is no way tax dollars should be used to subside people vehicles purchase.
Perhaps we should be subsidised if we purchase a pair of hiking boots, a bicycle or a small capacity motorcycle? How about a $6,000 rebate for taking a train or tram to work?
The government should stop subsidizing the oil industry and let the gas prices increase. Is that what you want?
@@brahmmauer7437yes, abolish all subsidies so that we can actually see what is most cost effective.
Rubbish. Ice vehicle running costs are subsidised hugely at the pump, something EV haters choose to conveniently ignore.
@@cbcdesign001 In which countries are ICE vehicles subsidised at the pump?
I'm in Australia. ICE vehicles are taxed at the pump, here.
We don't have 55% renewable. That's a bogus number.
"55%" is the capacity, not the actual production. Actual production is around half that, with a coal or gas plant running in reserve.
A statistical trick of the grifters to convince the taxpayers that their money is being used for something useful.
@@wisenber And you import a lot of electricity from France's nuclear plants, having shutdown all of yours.
@@stevemawer848 Germany is oddly specific about domestic sources but agnostic about how the imported power is generated.
@stevemawer848 and south African coal
When government interferes with market forces the result is never good.
and the result is very expensive-failed businesses, lost jobs, inflated economy.
Not when you elect people who are interested in public rather than personal advancement.
try to find one..today's elections are basically fixed popularity contests where the "winner" lines their pockets.@@glennmorgan4197
The moronic ignorance of your statement is typical of the brainwashed murican failure.
The auto industry have never been a free market, every country exporter of automobiles had protectionist policies of their own industry in some way or another.
Got a quote for over $5.5k comprehensive insurance for Model 3 long range, lock up garage, 15,000km per year, 20km from Sydney CBD, 45 year old male, with clean driving record, no insurance claims. With a depreciation factor of 60% or more over 3 years. You save on fuel but hammered by insurance and depreciation!!! Keeping our Lexus hybrid which only cost $1.1k to insure and not much difference in fuel vs EV.
My MG4 is less than $1k to insure in Adelaide. OK, it's half the cost of your Tesla, but 1/6 insurance? Wrong insurance company! (OR wrong city?)
Keeping a quality product is ALWAYS good policy! Good on you!
My Model 3 insurance is ~900€/year lmao
I also got quotes for 3k. So? I'm not forced to get the most expensive one I can find.
@@davidinkster1296MG4 Vs Tesla long range, completely different EV and price range. Hence the price difference in insurance. Add $3k option on the M3 long range and its a 3.8 sec 0-100km performance boost.
@@davidinkster1296who wants a MG compared to a Tesla. Totally different class and price of EV.
Interesting poll in the UK. Those that have put the money in and switched to EV, most of them would not return to ICE, with one caveat, home charging. Take away home charging and the poll flips, they nearly all would go back to ICE due to public charging issues.
Tesla have their own charging network which is very reliable. Most people only need to charge once a week
@@robertwoodhouse-bm7kt Agree. I just thought it was interesting that those who had converted and would not go back to ICE, caveated that with having home charging.
@@robertwoodhouse-bm7kt It's the cost of charging more than access. And most urban people might only need one charge, but not the rest.
Do you not drive anywhere😂
Can't charge at home. Would never go back.
Thousands of charging points in the city where I work. less than 200 gas stations
9 charging stations in my town - only 4 gas stations
I'm fine, thx.
There is a HUGE difference between tax incentive for manufactures and tax incentive to individuals that buy EV.
Just show me the tax incentive on any ICE car after you buy it. Big difference.
They are doing the same in Netherlands. EV's did not have to pay a 25% tax, + had €3.000 subsidies, and didn't pay road tax, till 2025.
Most wealthy people that could afford €50k+ EV's were given all these benefits for the last decade.
Now, EV prices start to decline a bit, and EV's get into the range that "average Joe" could almost buy a small one. . . . . . . all subsidies are gone, the 25% tax will be added and they have to pay the extra road tax per weight of the car . . . .
Whow, ever read the book: how to subsidize the milionairs.?
Not to mention prices of public charging
Similar to the UK, outside of incentivised sales for company car owners there are now hardly any private buyers going for EVs, and instead buying some form of ICE.
Big mistake long term.
That isn’t true. Demand is there. Dealers held back stock to buffer mandates for this year.
If you look at yearly data, private BEV sales were still up significantly. Monthly data is almost useless as it is so noisy. Quarterly data is better.
January BEV sales are already up 20%.
@@williammeek4078 Over 90% of private buyers are still buying some form of ICE.
@@williammeek4078 total bs everyone I speak to will not buy EVs because they are crap. They haven't got the range of diesel cars they take hours upon hours to charge up so a fiver hour drive takes someone two days to complete and with the price of electricity in the UK a EV is almost twice as much to run as a diesel car so why would people buy into this crap idea exactly. My Range Rover does 580 miles on a tank of diesel my Mondeo does 740 miles on a tank of diesel so tell me why I would buy a EV and have a range of less than 200 miles before I have to wait ten hours for the thing to charge up to do another 200 miles?
@@britbazza3568 what a load of crap. Who do you expect to believe that BS and buy one of your crap diesels?
There are plenty of BEVs with ranges over 300 miles which is 5 hours of driving. Charging is typically done in 30 minutes at a fast charger.
That is the time it takes to eat a meal, so for real people, BEVs don’t take any longer on road trips.
Sure, at home it takes hours, but you are sleeping so who cares.
You still have to make special side trips to fuel even when not on road trips.
Don’t try to sell me on your crapmobile diesel.
Germany are in recession , government discounts on EV finished in January , it is normal situation
Yup, and it's time anyway, tesla is coming out with a 25000 car so it isn't needed. 2025-26.
So they are not real sales they were bribed to get a EV oil will still be used in a thousand years.
@@davidredding1988"In a thousand years" - that's more than clueless.
@davidredding1988 Well, EVs will keep dropping in price. Oil will be used for the wires, cooling tubes , seat 💺, tires ... panels. your rain clothes. The point of moving off oil is just to not burn it off into the air and in breath it into are lungs. And the sun gives earthr more energy per day than oil. And we can't burn oil on other planets to run machines. Oil for industrial truck will be used until they have better battery tech but thats closer to 2060 imo, unless it a dump truck that goes up and down hill with regen breaks, but it only good in that environment.
Incentives were already dropped in December, last day for application was Dec. 17, 2023.
Reason was a verdict, that forbids the rededication of money originally reserved for other reasons (special assets for Corona). This left the government with literally no money left to spend. 🤷♂️
Having owned an ID3 I suspect that the real world range being half the official figures plays a part.
The fact they aren't being sued for fraud is what is dispicable.
I wouldn't be surprised to see a class action law suit in the future regarding range claims - similar to the diesel-gate scandal
@@stevebielby229
Wouldn't that be comical😂😂😂
Do petrol and diesel cars always make their claims?
Yes. @@andrewsaint6581
The German courts ruled the reprogramming of Covid funds into EV’s (among other recipients) was not legal. Consequently, without additional fund available, the government was required to cancel the EV subsidies.
Indeed. That was purely a legal issue. It is probable that the subsidies will reappear in Germany with next year budget.
It is far more than the end of subsidies. The resale value of EVs got worse and worse - as people started to understand battery degradation issues, winter reach issues, cost-of-repair issues. Plus rises in cost of energy. As a result, owning an EV has become even more expensive. Buying EVs has become irrational for more and more people. Not the other way around - as most were hoping or promising. Even a sticker price drop to 25K wouldn't make up for this.
That's a pack of slow lies.
@ Well, what counts is not claims ("pack of lies") - but data. And data clearly show sharp drops in resale values. Much steeper drops than with ICEs. Sharp rises in energy cost - in some countries above Petrol/Gas cost. Besides the purchase price, ordinary people have to factor this in. Electric cars will remain a niche - outside rich countries like Norway - that mandated them. Whether we like it or not. And I drive an EV myself.
All great points!
I imagine another good one is half the population can't afford or even want to pay so much for an EV.
@@Pattern-Recognition People are turning away from EVs even in Norway and Iceland. Imagine, you have an EV, and the recent Lava streams cut the power off to your isolated town. How are you leaving? Not in a half dead EV, that's for sure.
@you clearly don't own or drive one. I drive a Skoda Enyaq in Spain. When I'm lucky enough to find one of the few public chargers working I pay 0.8€/kW, 4 to 6 times more than the price of the kW. In the summer when my battery last longer, it's equivalent to paying a litre of diesel at 2€ (in Spain it is now 1.85€), in the winter it's equivalent to pay it at 2.77€. Just a shame! And by the way, module 3 of the 9 battery modules of the car failed last summer, it took Skoda 2 months to fix it and 3000€! The EV is a scam.
Recessions. Uncertainty. Patriotism.
EVs are a niche market product. And without goverment incentives for consumers this niche market shrinks even further.
The most sold car in the world is a niche product? How do you get to that logic?
@@Eddie_-_
Keep pumping out that silly statement mate, it makes you folks even sillier looking than you really are.
EV sales in the US in 2023..... 7.6%😂😂😂
Yeah, they're selling in their droves😂😂
@@WeeShoeyDugless “the United States population is equivalent to 4.23% of the total world population.”
@@Eddie_-_ Tesla makes only 2 models that actually sell. Other car manufacturers make hundreds, and EV are a minuscule percentage.
@@sophieedel6324 check EV sales of China, Sweden, Norway and Netherlands. US is great in many ways. But not known to be particularly progressive.
Not one country has the infrastructure to charge these cars
Especially the country that destroyed nuclear and are now back to buying coal from South africa
Germans are energy morons, nordstream, they were told , but they were clever
Why should the taxpayers give their money to the auto companies? This is all a scam, if the auto companies want to sell cars, make them affordable.
And make cars the public actually wants to buy?
Make cars that are repairable. Cars with transmission fluid dipsticks.
The US government bailed out GM to the tune of $50 BILLION.
Have EV tax breaks etc come anywhere near that yet?😂
@@DwaynePipes Best ask Electric Jesus.
@@DwaynePipes
That was about bailing out the unions. Wouldn't have mattered if they built widgets.
In the UK the taz incentives have led to a glut of very expensive EVs on the used market because it's people on higher salaries that benefit most from company car tax rules incentivising EVs. There used to be EV incentives to private buyers here too but they just seemed to get used up in increased profits rather than reduced prices. The main problem is that in the UK at least many used buyers don't have access to home charging or any cheap alternative it they're in an apartment. I'm not sure if Germany has the same issue but for true mass adoption cheap and reliable public charging needs to be a thing first and this is the main reason many people won't switch.
The fad is over. EV's can't succeed without massive government subsidies on vehicles and infrastructure. Which is synonymous with "living a lie". And remember these:
- Cold weather climates experienced low range / dead charging infrastructure last winter
- Some regions ask EV owners to not charge during heatwaves because of brown-outs
- Electricity costs doubling or quadrupling in many regions
- Lithium mine indentured labor and surface mining ecological disasters ("clean" hypocrisy)
- Tires wear out twice as fast as on ICE cars ("clean" hypocrisy)
- Most EV owners inflicting their tailpipe emissions onto rural areas/people ("clean" hypocrisy)
- Huge EV batteries not recyclable at end-of-life ("clean" hypocrisy)
- Insurance rates surging for Teslas
- Increasing electric bus fires
- Increasing house fires in the US from EV battery fires
- Repair costs skyrocketing on out of warranty EV's
- Plummeting resale values for EV's
Many potential EV buyers and current owners recognize these as major wake-up calls. Gas, diesel and CNG cars certainly have many compromises and do not satisfy every use case. Can EV fans be rational enough to recognize and admit the same of EV's and their shortfalls, or will they be zealots and keep their blinders on? Watch all EV sales numbers start their decrease this year, then free-fall in 2025. And plan to see most auto manufacturers fail to make money on EV's and abandon their production.
What a load of crap. ALL your examples are media propaganda. I’ll argue each point one by one if you’re up to it.
@@bigdougscommentary5719 1 cold weather?
Fad is exactly what they are.
That's absolutely right. We shouldn't subsidise cars of any sorts.
Even elon musk agrees saying that EV now needs to stand on their own two feet so to speak.
Would like to hear what they gave to their own manufacturers
Meanwhile, Elon hedged profitability for Tesla on things like tax credits, compliance credits, carbon credits, and crypto-currency. How convenient. Now his strategy is to make money from charging systems, and guess where the US government is forcing taxpayers to contribute funds.
I don't envy Elon for taking advantage of our world's suckers, but those of us who knew the game before the scat started up shouldn't be forced to have our skin in it whatsoever.
My neighbor just bought a Tesla ($60,000 OTD) and I just bought a Corolla Cross Hybrid ($39,000 OTD). We're both in our 70s. He's already admitted making a big mistake. Why? The Tesla requires pressing designated parts of an LCD screen to even turn on the window wipers. These screens are functional for younger drivers but once you reach your 70s, it's very difficult to touch the correct spot. His arm shakes (as does mine) when reaching for the screen and we both have to look away from the road to make sure we are pressing the right area of the screen. This is just dangerous. The good news about the CCH Hybrid is that there are a lot fewer, non tactile, buttons to touch while you're driving so you can keep your eyes on the road where they should be. .
you can voice control most functions
Yes. That is where Tesla has gtone wrong and driving one of their cars can actually be dangerous. Have a touch screen by all means but all essential functions such as turn signals, mode controls and window opwening and closing must have physical controls. On my Skoda Enyaq a warning comes up when the touch screen is operated when it is in motion and it then assumes you let the front passenger operate it.
YOu both should stop driving if you're hands are shaking!
I got my new model 3 for less than cost of cheapest Camry. Yes not everything about Tesla is golden but something like windwiper shortcut can be added for about $100 ish which is not bad when you can get ev cheaper than new Camry. I think your neighbor overpaid for his tesla unless he bought Model S or Model X.
@@SubwayOMAs you will probably when you reach 70 ….?🤔
🤣🤣🤣 we told you so😂🤣
New Zealand:
December 2023 EV sales were 36% of total cars sold
January 2024 EV sales were 3% cars sold
The reasons were because there were no more EV incentives in 2024 and EV drivers had to pay road user chargers like anyone else.
The `reason` is anyone with any sense bought their car in December and not January because that's what people do, to see whats happening you need way more data points these two stats mean nothing
People aren't stupid. You can funnel them into a particular direction if the reward is great enough. Unfortunately for EVs there is no current financial pay-off when compared to petrol cars so without constant government intervention EVs would almost certainly just remain 10% of the world vehicle market.
Great stuff! I love this. Subsidizing EVs is the completely wrong way for everybody. The future is anyway e-fuels for industry and cars as well.
and the save the planet types are cheap
People are seeing what they bought -the " Frozen Tesla " incident in Chicago finished off the sales of EVs in 2024 here. Then fires burning down owners homes, the few people trapped in their cars burned to death since the door locks failed, the massive number of tire replacements required, the extra high insurance costs, the lack of charging stations in useful locations , the wait time to charge, the upfront cost, the child slave labor to mine the cobalt, expensive battery pack to replace, the resale value being so poor, the excessive amount of material to build them, their weight in an accident, fact the copper crooks keep stealing the charging cables making the station useless, repair cost being way higher than they tell you. the fact the grid just cant handle the load (in CA owners were told to not charge their cars due to load sheading) cost of installing home charger and its slow speed, range issues and battery performance in lower temperatures. I know I missed a few but thats just off the top of my head - truth is there is a portion of the population even with all this will still buy one for status or because they think its the thing to do but I think they already bought them so sale will slow
In 2023 the global BEV sales was 9.5 million. Tesla sold 1.81 million vehicles in 2023.
Based on your research, what are your predictions for 2024? Are those numbers going to be higher or lower for 2024?
Have people seen the EV bus going up in Paris on YT... in seconds! (Another 3 in London recently)Truly scary. I think it'll take one disaster anywhere in the world when an apartment goes up as a result of an EV and people are killed. Apart from the total inconvenience as laid out above, people are now aware EV depreciation is the worst the car industry has ever seen in cars. Hertz liquidating 20,000 Teslas to buy back into ICE says it all about the cost of ownership. Depreciation being the main kicker in that case although cost/duration of repairs was a big factor also.
@@acolon8999
2023...... Total EV sales share in the US.....
7.6%
@@WeeShoeyDugless yes but the Naysayers won't see that the percentage is increasing every year. It went from 2.4% in 2020 to 7.6% in just a few years. I could see that number drastically accelerating if they can get their prices down even further to attract more buyers.
Don't get me wrong, ICEVs are not going anywhere for at least a decade or two contrary to what many EV enthusiasts will tell you but every year they will continue to lose sales to BEVs.
I've owned and driven many ICEVs for decades and after owning a BEV for almost 4 years and a lining in a BEV only household for almost two years, I don't see myself buying another ICEV again. And that's with decades of experience on ICEVs so I have experienced both types of vehicles contrary to many who have never experienced a BEV and will try to tell you what the ownership of a BEV is like.
@@topmarques
Incidently, the bus in China (FULL OF PASSENGERS) was more frightening than the Paris incident.
Pure mayhem with serious injuries!!
In 2023, some 30% of EV’s registeret in Denmark, just north of Germany, was German imports of 6 mths “Old” cars with +/- 1000 km. Our imported Fiat 500E was 27 weeks old, with 850 km at the clock, and with a price tag some 5000 € cheaper. You’ll find a lot of reductions in registration from cars, only registered for reexport with German tax incentives.🇩🇰
3:27 “underlying issues” are the always the scapegoat. Perhaps, just perhaps, EV enthusiasts have already purchased and mainstream buyers are less interested in EVs. That fact, coupled with government no longer taking “Peter’s money to help Paul,” is probably a big factor
What a surprise? EVs are depend on government besides!
This is the best argument that with current battery technology for consumer, EVs don't have almost any economically argument.
Germany is in recession and EV subsidies are a luxury they can’t afford. They still have 58 operating coal power stations so with the budget constraints 2030 targets are more of an aspiration than a reality.
We have 20GW of coal, Germany has 30GW and will need 50 gas-fired stations if they want to get off coal!
We had one EV Evangelist in our family , she is a school teacher and talked for several years about buying an electric car and told us all we needed to buy one NOW . 18 months ago she got a full electric skoda enyaq on a PCP . after one year of nightmare, of range anxiety and 3 times being stranded plus costly and time consuming charging driving the 620 mile round trip to visit her father she has changed it for a petrol skoda at enormous financial cost . Our conclusion is that for all but the committed enthusiast that makes the use of their car their main focus and passion the currant generation of electric cars and electric infrastructure are not fit for purpose. Hydrogen and CNG look to be far more user friendly solution. Running my 119g co2 bmw 520d for another 10 years looks a lot better for the planet than building an electric car anyway.
Yeah, the virtue-signallig early adopters have all bought the EVs they wanted, so the demand has dried up. EVs are a massive waste of resources, despite their "zero emissions" at the tailpipe. Who needs a car that has to be scrapped after minor damage, or when the battery is shot after 10 years. The tank in an ICEV doesn't lose capacity after decades of use!
@@stevemawer848 You tedious bellend.
Not sure what it is like in Germany but elsewhere it isn’t just the loss of government subsidies but decreasing customer confidence.
Until recently, the general consumer opinions were, like how they drive, like the idea, don’t like the purchase price, don’t like the limited range and insufficient charging infrastructure.
But more recently other issues have reared up - heavy depreciation, high insurance, high repair costs, long repair times.
Also, the once cheap running costs have been somewhat eroded by the large hikes in energy costs.
I bought an EV in 2020, loved driving it and the convenience of charging at home. To start off, it was super cheap to run, a third the price of running a diesel, but two years later electricity prices had been hiked leaving the EV only a little cheaper to run. Then three years later at the end of the contract I started looking at a replacement, EVs at first. I wanted more range and was shocked that I would have to spend over £45k, but the killer was when I discovered how little it was worth, it less than 3 years it had lost 60% of its value - I’d also had to change insurance companies because of ridiculously high renewal quotations - I switched back to petrol.
Since then, there have been stories cars being written off because of minor scratches to the battery housing, repairs being expensive and taking ages because the network of 1000s of traditional repair centres don’t have the equipment or skills to deal with them, and the high-profile stories of EV fires that has started to appear on main-stream media.
Consumer confidence has been dented for a number of reasons, not just the loss of subsidies. I still think you are right, we will all be driving EVs eventually, but it will state time because the rapid transition plans have been set back considerably.
All car sales in Germany are down: "BERLIN, Jan 30 (Reuters) - German car sales are lagging the recovery in the global passenger car market, with 2024 sales expected to be 25% below pre-pandemic levels, data from German auto association VDA showed on Tuesday."
Germans are waking up to the lies they have been told since WWII😐
Not 55% like the EV Market then?
Great....😂😂😂😂
@@WeeShoeyDugless -- It's so early into 2024 that the 55% report doesn't mean much; if that's 55% still less in Dec 2024, then it'll mean something.
Reduce the price below ICE cars, create a battery that can charge in 5 minutes and make darn sure the battery won't kill its occupants. Then the EV's can compete, maybe.
Ask yourself. If you woke up every morning at home with a full tank. How often would you visit gas stations?
@@Eddie_-_ Ask yourself, if your brand of ICE car had a gas tank that got 5% smaller every year and sometimes 40% smaller on a cold day, would you buy that brand again?
Ev sales have fallen all over the world not just germany because people eyes have finally opened.
😂
I tend to think it’s the public waking up to the fact EVs are a disposable commodity. We won’t be seeing 8-10 year old used EVs because of the fact, no one wants an EV that is out of warranty and having a potential financial ticking time bomb. When an ICE vehicle is repairable and serviceable way beyond a typical EVs life. And as more and more are finding out the running costs often exceed that of an ICE vehicle. Making the switch is both expensive and risky when residual values are falling so fast.
And Musk slashing prices doesn't help residuals, so he's happy to screw his existing customers.
have a look at NZ not only did any incentives end but also Road user charges will now apply as well,,
I heard a podcast talking about the crazy EV scheme NZ has. Something about one council or state charging you for miles driven even if you are driving in a different council/state.
So glad i never moved there especially after how they treated their citizens during the plandemic.
RUC starts in April, and I have a sneeky feeling ev prices will fall in the next few months like magic. You would be amazed how many evs were priced $5 below the incentive cap.
Good decision by the German government. Most countries except US (election!) will follow suit this year. The subsidies just enabled excess profits for Tesla and major manufacturers.
When you drop subsidies sales will drop. EV must stand on their own to the buying public.
Why would any private buyer purchase a throw away item, which essentially is what EV's are. Leasing companies will also start costing them out of common sense and affordability when they realise there is no secondhand market, we just have very large mobile phones
Its not rocket science. If Evs are considerably more expensive than their ICE counterparts the disadvantages of Evs mount up that much more and people will switch back to ICE. Low millage drivers that charge at home cannot save enough money to justify the extra purchasing/lease costs, high millage drivers are being ripped off with high public charging point pricing. Its a lose-lose situation for Evs. The incentives were required until Evs have price parity with Ice and they still don't.
Why should they subsidise expensive ev' s .
If the cars had merit and were produced economically , consumers would want them .
I think the Viking is right... EV sales are about to plummet, supply and demand will dictate this, more than any new technology.
There never should have been EV purchase incentives in any country nor should there be any free charging stations or aubsidized electricity rates. The free market demands that, if a kWh of electricity is superior to a kWh worth of gasoline (more useable, less polluting, or safer) then the price for a kWh of electricity should be higher than the price of a kWh worth of gasoline since the consumer prefers the electrical energy to the chemical energy.
Ever heard of "externalities"?
@@SimonFranck100 Externalities like child labor digging up cobalt, road surfaces incurring more damage from heavier vehicles, like having to dig up streets and construct electrical towers to route all the extra electricity to houses so people can charge their EVs? Or are you only talking about how CO2 output fuels the climate change hoax?
Anything you buy is still dependent on the economy. That’s the way it it’s.
With the market in the U.S. also looking pretty bad
If battery production costs have fallen, this has not yet had an impact on the price of new EVs, manufacturers are just increasing their margins. It is now up to the manufacturers to reflect the reduced production costs in their prices. Government subsidies are not a long-term solution.
Same thing just happened here in NZ. End of EV purchase and operation subsidies = end of EV sales. January EV sales were down 90%. And petrol car sales massively up, so it's not a weak economic situation
We have the bizarre situation where small petrol car purchase price AND ongoing operating cost are lower than an EV. So why would anyone buy an EV in NZ?
I am in the auto trade, and I don't see this turning around for at least a year. Maybe longer
the reason I bought mine was that I can 'fill up' at home for peanuts, and do not have tail pipe emissions, and have a 7 year warranty, and a 2 year service period.
@@TerryHickey-xt4mf Your 'tailpipe emissions' are just somewhere else. Really your tailpipe is at the far end of that cable you plug into your car, so long as you can't see it it's not happening. And not forgetting the huge emissions to make the car and eventually dispose of it. Again not seen by you so it's not a thing.
@@nickbreen287 That's fossil fuel lobby propagada. The tail pipe emissions "at the far end of that cable" are still much lower for EV than for ICE cars.
@@SimonFranck100 Lower, yes but more frequently used. The emissions cost of producing a single EV is much much higher than an ice and the decommissioning costs are not even known as the tech to do it is not invented yet. So right now every EV is just toxic waste at end of life. I understand that you are emotionally invested and need to see the upside, but...
Hopefully scam with electromobility is coming to an end. Hoping that Fit for 55 will shortly follow.
No subsidies for private companies on anything. If it can't stand the market forces, it must go.
Latest figures show that it has become more expensive to own and drive an electric car than an ice vehicle. It was always a fraud
Are EV sales really going up or is it the EV scam where companies register the EVs because the government paus them to and then the EVs are stored in fields. If the Chinese people are losing their jobs in droves how can EV sales be skyrocketing?
The real scam is regulators insisting on certain percentages of a manufacturer's output being electric, so they have to waste resources building cars that nobody wants.
I’m convinced that OEMs inflate prices when governments offer incentives. If they offered consumers a lump sum based on evidence of the purchase of an EV, then the OEMs would be offering new cars at lower prices and competing.
I think you have a point. The Volvo EX30 is quite expensive in Canada compared to the USA, since we have a price-based rebate, as opposed to a tax break. I hope that once they move production to Belgium, things might level out, but I wouldn’t hold my breath.
It's called getting back to sanity. If EVs are so good they wouldn't need subsidies.
A few points:
- This shows once again that if governments remove the tax incentives, people buy ICE cars, which in turn, shows what's the real value of EVs on public perception;
- It just not sustainable to keep giving tax credits to EV, and I'd argue that it's not fair that anyone who buys a brand new car is partially bring paid with taxpayers money, most of which didn't buy any new car for themselves.
Why should the tax payer subsidise EV's If they can't sell on the basis of their price then they are not wanted.
As from January this year the ZEV mandate applies where each manufacturer has to sell 22% of production as an EV. Let see how that goes as most will not be able to hit this target (which increases each year) so will be hit with a fine of $£1500 for each ICE car sold that has not met that target.
Just blame Tesla for all of this nonsense.
Blame Tesla? how stupid, since when is Tesla the government?
NZ did the same - this resulted in INCREASED sales in December - and very low in January
I suspect that it has dropped EV demand by a bit - but the big drop in Jan is because a lot of people bought early to get the credits
Have to see how it pans out over the next few months
I think January already showed how it's going to pan out. The retirement of buyer subsidies pushed future demand to December. Tax policies have a way of distorting the market like that.
Of course December would have a surge in sales simply because the 'goody bags' were being withdrawn at the end of that month.
Any word on January sales yet?
Even with the subsidies in NZ, new EV’s were still too expensive. So only well-off buyers could afford them. I have rented a hybrid and was quite impressed with it, but could not even afford to buy a secondhand one. As a renter, I would not be able to own an EV, as no landlord is going to spend on installation of a charging station, which is where, we are told, is the best place to charge-up. In the South Island, charging stations are still few and far between, and the advice given to ICE owners here is keep your fuel tank topped up.
An example: Last year due to road closures and slips etc. The distance from Picton to Nelson (normally about 145km.) was, briefly, over 1,000km. This sort of problem has been quite common in the last three years. Imagine if you were in an EV when this happened!
@Sam, none of that has to do with EVs and all has to do with the budget. It's not even that the subsidies themselves were an issue, the whole budget was, due to a technicality. Also, the subsidy was cut but all automakers are covering the difference through rebates and discounts, most at least until end March. So only after that, if prices increase again (big IF), then we might see any material demand effect of this subsidy situation. Any current declines must be due to other causes.
I love the stock film of the womam squeezing fuel pump trigger AS she pulls it out at 2:16 😄
It does not take 8 minutes to say "People do not want battery cars"
Amen to that.
Why was the declining working class in The West forced to subsidize expensive EV cars for wealthier people in the first place? It's very unfair. Why don't they just give every driver $7,500 to buy what they want?
P.S. EVs also use the roads, but they don't pay for them when they buy fuel, like ICE vehicle owners do.
China sells a lot more EV’s because they have a highly efficient and effective public transportation system including High Speed Rail so EV’s are only used for short commutes.
@@travelwithtony5767 - They are not doing so good now. Thousands of new EV's are sitting in fields rotting away.
@@DUCKSAREEVILLLLLLLL- Excellent point. But you see Duck, a percentage of those subsidies mysteriously comes back into politicians foundations and they become instant millionaires after leaving office like OB 1 Kenobi.
Because of no subsidies. It’s darn expensive!
wrong, prices for EVs are dropping
@@ralfo1704 they’re dropping all right but still expensive for an average worker!
@@politicalbandit3904not sure what is your knowledge: 222 Euros ia not expensive for an ID3 and is affordable for an average worker
It’s expensive in the US!
@@politicalbandit3904 ok but in Germany we dont care about the prices in US...the video is about EV salse in Germany which is clearly not US.
All the corporate customers were buying in heavily to benefit from those subsidies.
German EV Corporate sales probably outstripped sales to the public, like they do here in the UK.
Incentivising a nationalcar industry is one thing. Using taxpayer money to give additional tax credits to EV buyers are a different story. Can’t they compete in anormal, free market?
Why should they get subsidies? Cant they compete in a fair market condition?
Thanks for showing us you don't really know how the world really works. Cheers!
@@AeschylusShepherd He did show how the world really works. Some things work without tax credits, others don't.
ICEs do have a market advantage: cheaper and more readily available repair and spare parts, as well as fueling stations. Meanwhile EVs are still trying to figure out how to go about batteries. An ecosystem for EVs won't pop up overnight.
@@1InVader1 Or survive copper thieves.
Two main points: Charging prices increases 30 to 50%. While gasoil decreased 30%. EV s are now 70 % less competitive. Next point is, that the 6000 Euro state gift reduced leasing rates for 24 months contracts by 250 Euros monthly. Finished.
That’s not how percentage works.
For an EV you need to calculate a weighted average between home charging and public charging. Personally, I would maximum charge at a public charger 2-4 times per year.
We are considering to install solar power to reduce pool heating cost. This would make us drive for free. And I live in a country with really cheap petrol.
@@Eddie_-_ I think solar is great from the standpoint of being at least somewhat energy independent. But you need a large solar array, and batteries for that. That lots of money. And in reality, its not cost effective, unless you live in a warmer/sunnier climate.
@@sidorgeorge yes, living in a sunny climate. I have a quote for 11 KUSD without batteries. Don’t think we need that, expecting the solar to heat the pool and the excess power used to charge a car.
@@Eddie_-_ Well, your car is your battery in reality.
Tony did say they would resist the change but it will be to no avail.Kicking and screeming!
Lower battery prices, lower EV prices, great news. However, it does all conveniently ignore the Rio Tinto report from 2022 where the proven world resources for Lithium are enough to sustain replacing 15% of the global ICE fleet and the proven world resources for Cobalt, an essential element for Lithium batteries, is enough to sustain replacing 6% or the global ICE fleet. So, . . . where are the rest of the batteries coming from? and how stable is the price of Lithium and Cobalt as supplies eventually dwindle? The other real kicker is, what do we do, with all the dead EVs when they reach the end of their working life? There is around half a ton of battery in each one, they all have to go somewhere, and unlike ICE cars, you can't just push them into the crusher for recycling.
I KNEW this would happen sooner or later.
Government all over the world routinely shift goalposts.
Also, do we know whether this was planned some years ago and just not reported properly?
So, if the government, (Germany) doesn’t subsidize EVs, people don’t buy them. This is the problem with governments picking winners and losers. Once the wining side money dries up, it’s no longer the winning side.
l live in Germany. I think it is good that EVs are not subsidized. If they were really that great, they will have a growing market share, if not, then not. For CO2 goals, it makes much more sense to produce green electricity on a large scale (wind & solar) and convert a part of it into e-fuels - which will anyway happen due to the green transformation of the (chemical) industry.
@@spxram4793efuels are an absurdity…. Every study shows people have concerns over charging access mainly. Germany like Japan has too much of its economy dependent on legacy auto and is therefore fearful of swapping. It’s just a matter of time however, ICE sales peaked in 2017 and is still declining. At a certain point the cost to produce crossover will occur and ICE will be caught in a cost to produce trap.
@@spxram4793 yeah, you live by the subsidy, you die by the subsidy. Here in the US EVs are given tax credits, which is fine in all, I mean if you want an EV and the government is going to refund a portion of your tax liability back to you for buying one, why the hell not, it’s just your money coming back to for something you want anyway, and it helps take the some of sting off the price, but when that rebate goes away, people will then start to think do I really want that car over some other car, and if the numbers no longer work anymore the answer will probably be no, and the government knows this hence the mandates that everyone by one by some future date. It’s like the Covid shots. When they first came out there was a percentage of people who were willing to camp out in front of pharmacies to be first in line to get jabbed. Once all those people ran out, the government had to offer carrots to get it, free this and that or direct cash payments as those people dwindled. Then they still have a sizable percentage of people who just didn’t want it, and then came the mandates. It’ll be the same with EVs.
@@teealso Except they are going to make the tax subsidy assignable to the dealer at purchase time so it becomes his tax incentive and as good as cash. So many Americans are NOT Net taxpayers. It's not their money coming back to them, it's a free gift!
Sooner or later EVs have to stand on their own without government subsidies. That time is coming fast in a lot of countries, even here in Australia.
I told him a couple months ago that it would happen as soon as the government stopped that crap.. 😂
Subsidies were meant only for a short time.. also other countries will end or has already ended subsidies for buyers, like in Finland. Cars will be taxed like ICE before.
why should any industry be incentivized? If the cars are good enough and priced competitively, then they will sell. The price of Lithium has dropped massively, why haven't the cost of the cars dropped significantly? I think the macro-markets have changed since Covid and with more free trade agreements, the days of huge incentives are over.
It’s not that simple
@@jsanders100 why not? Why do we over complicate things.
Globally, fossil fuels received an estimated 6 TRILLION USD subsidies globally in 2023 (source - those well known tree-huggers, the IMF). You were saying???
@@philiptaylor7902 and how much did renewables get either directly or indirectly?
that is the point they cant.. if you buy an Opla Astra (small car) if its Electric its double the price of the Ice version. you can get an Opel Astra Ice car with a nice trim for the same price which is a class above in size. or a RENAULT ARKANA , esprit Alpine trim hybrid car which is 500mm longer car
The government is throttling the economy with these incentives. ( What I don't understand is they raised interest rates to slow inflation , yet provide incentives for electric vehicles that would increase costs. ) ( It's the manufacture that benefits from customer incentives, not the consumer, with these incentives the manufacture raises prices , now they have to lower prices and they are crying , WTH , what the heck is that all about)
The problem for EVs is the costs of buying at the moment. Running costs are much lower than ICE cars. Incentives are going to people who can afford a car of 60000. Once batterie prices are going down the choice for everyone will be easy.
Prices are coming down. Fuelling costs are lower, that's for sure. Maintenance costs are probably lower, too. But I'm in Australia and the depreciation on EV's here is insane.
That's where the real cost is. I'm not kidding you, you're average used Model 3 drops about $1 in value for every kilometre you drive it, here.
Game changer ?
Germany’s priority is Ukraine 😮
Is it? It seems like Germany forgot to fund its army, air force, navy and energy sector for the last 30 years…
@@laurencejenner1127 Germany is scrambling to make up for all of that while at the same time realizing that the costs of greening Germany is yielding an uncompetitive Germany.
Don't forget about all the migrants that have been sucking them dry for years while making their cities unlivable.
You could have fooled me.
@@laurencejenner1127
It wasn't allowed to by other nations.
Did you forget?
If EVs were the ways forward, they would not need to provide subsidies! People would be queuing up to buy them. It’s the start of people and governments coming to their senses.
Every car manufacturer dropped list prices here in germany. So there is not a big difference to before.
In fact, incentives would have stopped by the end of 2025 anyways with budget cuts every year. Of course its not nice that it got stopped so quickly, but manufactures were pricing them in. And with the bureaucracy we have here its nice to get nearly the same price (MSRP dropped) without the hustle of handing in forms.
Also, January EV-sales are up ~25% compared to January 2023. But overall EV sales will be +-10% compared to last year.
So its not nice, but it could be worse. :)
Strange how a Govt. may not want their industries smashed by products from other countries that are being subsidized even harder by their Govt. isn't it?
Any comment on why the fuel subsidies on ICE vehicles here in Australia are used to fund the EV rush but EVs don't have to pay an equivalent amount?
No carmakers here to subsidize these days.
Because we are in a climate emergency and EVs are part of the solution.
@@rogerphelps9939 So how about we concentrate on the big ticket items and not on the low hanging fruit that Govt. always go for?
Cut right back on planes flying, reduce waste, build houses that don't require heating/cooling all year, work with high polluting 3rd world countries etc etc etc.
We have ICE vehicles but they're efficient and modern which we use very little and we have a lower footprint than most who buy EVs.
It's a a badly implemented ad hoc money grab imo.
No. Start with low hanging fruit where the greatest impact can be made. CO2 emissions from ground transport far exceed those from aircraft.@@oldbloke204
@@oldbloke204 That all makes perfect sense, but it reduces consumption, and we can't have that now, can we. And plus, you can't park those things in
your driveway to show your neighbours how virtuous and how wealthy you are.
Electricity in Germany is very expensive. EV incentives are canceled. Germany economy going downfall. That all combine lower demand for EV's
How do gasoline prices in Germany compare to electricity prices?
Electricity are free in Germany (if you have Solarpanels) 😎
And home battery storage. Many Germans aren't poor.
Yep, people in Germany tend to crunch numbers before they buy a car and without gov. Subsidies with high electricity prices to own/run an EV presently will cost at least the same if not more compared to an ICE vehicle. Fortunately, I do believe that once battery, components, get cheaper and more renewable electricity will be produced, electricity prices will go down and every German will buy EV because it will be cheaper and proven technology.
@cicolobbert6788 I doubt it will get much cheaper. Technology does start off expensive then cheapens but it has been proven time and time again they can easily just become more expensive. Take ICE cars. They have not gotten cheaper over the decades and are increasingly out of reach for more and more people.
Plus they keep adding stuff to make it even more unaffordable like crazy LED headlight units that require a full replacement or how a replacement key fob for push button start cars is hundreds of dollars instead of the maybe 100 for a real physical key.
I have always been told things get cheaper...but everywhere I look things are more expensive and more ways of taking money from customers are coming around.
Be it cars, houses, or basic appliances. They do not go down in price despite production innovations.
No reason to expect a electric car to get much cheaper. I think they will of course but they will just stay around ICE car prices so automakers can reap more profits.
If new EVs are going to be so wonderful in a couple of years, why would anyone buy one today?
Bottom line, interest rates also plays a role in sales of lots of expensive items, cars and homes! The fact we EV's, as the cost of electricity goes up so does the cost of owning an EV, in some places it is more expensive to own an EV.
Compared to January 2023....+24%
Thanks for making that clear! I was about to comment the same.
I bought a Model 3 without any subsidies - didn't stop me.
Didn’t stop me buying my Smart #1 Brabus at £43,450 it would be £30k in China we pay 10% import duty, car tax and 20% vat. Still a bargain it’s quicker off the mark 3.7 0-60 and quarter mile 12.1 seconds than an etron Gt, and all the Taycans except the turbo s. Quicker than an RS3, M2 competition. So a real bargain.
@@garrycroft4215wow that's impressive
@@garrycroft4215 I don't have anything to prove - I'm just happy to have enough performance (0-60 4.4s) to leave almost anything behind and have some fun if I need to, good economy, long range and a car that makes driving long distances something to look forward to.
Having an excellent reliable charging system and free internet that just works all over Europe is also a big bonus.
Woop de do😂
I've purchased every car that I've ever owned without subsidies, too.
EV's are still very expensive, most people cannot afford them. Most new sales are business lease contracts, they are not sales to regular consumers. And the second hand market for EV's is very weak. Depreciation on EV's will increase even further.
Governments job is not to spend tax payers money on subsidising overpriced EV’s keeping them inflated, they need to sort the basic demands first which is not cars, the EV makers have to produce cars that people can afford and sell them in sufficient numbers or go bust.
The answer is not EV but plug in hybrid with a 50+ mile range
Smaller, cheaper battery, more versatility, no expensive upgrades for home charging. If most of your mileage is done locally and you have off street parking with access to power, they make a lot of sense. My sister is seriously considering it as an option for her next car. The only problem is that her old Mazda refuses to die and she won't get rid of a vehicle unless
a wrecker buys it for scrap.
If you live in a city and have a garage. Without those two, it's still not attractive. Plug in hybrids tend to ahve the worst of both worlds: limited range and linted performance.
@@wisenber Limited range on battery, yes.
They'll go as far as you want though, if you can keep the petrol up to them.
@@davidbrayshaw3529 "They'll go as far as you want though"
...with less power and efficiency than a regular hybrid. Regular hybrids don't have to haul around as much battery and have more powerful engines.
@@wisenber That makes sense. If they have bigger batteries and not as much engine, that is a compromise.
Hybrids in general are a compromise, in that respect and are not the best option for all users.
My sister is interested in a plug in hybrid for her next car. I'll pass on your considerations to her.
She's very impressed with her husband's Prius hybrid but wants to take it one step further, so to speak.
It was no tax incentive what one got from the german government, it was a cashback program.
And folks, it's really important that you all believe strongly that it was the stop of these subsidies that let the EV market plummed (amidst a 19% growing general car market in Germany - official numbers for January 2024 Kraftfahrtbundesamt) and absolutely not waning interest or EV insufficiencies.
Which in that case it would mean the only reason people bought them in the first place was because of the subsidies not because of them being better. Let the free market decide.
The reason it dropped in Germany that hard is because the terms for the subsidies were so dumb that it was financially reasonable to buy a fresh EV after 6 months of driving and sell it to a country with higher price.
Just remember that no Government cannot survive without a fuel tax. So even when they cancel subsidies they still are short changed when it comes to Government income
Fuel tax 3% of government revenue. It will take about 10 years to phase out all the second hand ICE cars.
In the UK EV second hand prices have fallen off a cliff and ICE cars are going through the roof. Nobody is buying new EVs because within a year they have lost 70 to 80% of the original price. It looks like it’s the end for electric cars
In the UK, the culprit of decreasing EV sales is turn out to be Rowan Atkinson. And in Germany, the government is the culprit. So, there is no way people shunning EVs. They are in love with EVs.
Rowan has become a target because he's gone public with a qualified engineer's perspective on EVs. Some people don't like the truth, backed up by facts. As for being in love with EVs, you're doing irony, right?
Same happened in NZ with subsidies being cancelled, A big part is everyone wanting an EV rushed to buy before the cancellation leaving a big gap in the following few months. We won't really see the true impact for a few months as a new normal settles in. The Government bringing in road user charges without any real analysis at a much to high level is not helping. My feeling is the new Gov has had a chunk of this policy written for them by an increasingly desperate legacy fossil fuel and car industry.
I doubt it, the same RUC and dropping of subsidies was signaled by the last government, it was only on till EVs reached the 2% mark. And why would you need to do an analysis to set the RUC level for EVs, it's been applied to diesels for years so is just a matter of applying it to EVs which were exempt. They use the roads same as diesels so therefore need to pay like diesels.
NZ just elected a fascist far right denialist government. Whatever has got into them?
@@silverdale3207 hi Silverdale, I'm orewa1993. So I think that rucs are a good thing to apply across the board but should be charged in weight tiers. If the purpose of rucs is to pay for the roads, then it should logically follow that vehicles that are heavier, should pay more. Ice, electric, hydrogen, steam it doesn't matter.
No. Lol
@@N1rOx Agree seems the only logical way forward to charge RUC on everything and ditch excise on petrol. I can claim the excise tax back on petrol used offroad on farm now, presumably boats can as well (not sure). The RUC is based on weight already. Up to 3500kg, 3500-6000 kg , 6-9000kg, and 9000 plus. They might have to adjust these otherwise a small efficient petrol would pay the same as a heavy EV.
Well Sam this is why this insane push for electric powered vehicles and renewable power sources is not resolving some of the more important issues is now taking it's toll on their economy.
That sounded like a whole heap of garbage, the EV maker is in a dreadful state, the sales are dropping considerably compared to IC vehicles and the industry is in a state where they are being forced by Governments to sell them or face heavy financial penalties.
The EV insanity is finally coming to the end. Sam, realize this fact!
The irony is that when taking running costs into consideration, existing Bev’s are generally less expensive than ICE cars today.
Debatable when you take away all the Govt. support.
True for high annual mileage. False for low annual mileage.
Not when you include resale value.
tell that to sixt and hertz
Yep, when you put the real price on EV's nobody will buy them.
The numbers are month over month not a good indicator of the 2024 trend , it should be expected that Dec sales are substantially more than the following January.