The scariest plant I've been in is an aluminium powder plant. 1 or 2 apparently go up somewhere around the world, and quite spectacular. It was also the shortest site induction ever. Basically if the siren goes off, then run. No assembly point, just keep running.
Dude ya, when Ford started making the F-150s out of Aluminum that was one of the things the body shops all had to learn about, how dangerous it can be if it's powdered up and filled a room it'll go boom boom
A friend of mine visited the ESA launch site in French Guiana. The instructions were indeed very similar. Everyone was told to leave the keys in their car, and if the alarm went off - just get a car, any car and drive away as fast as you can.
I have a similar close plant and it regards the same element - Aluminium Sorry this is longish, but I get where you are coming from. FYI - I have a degree in aerospace but have spent 35+ years in industrial control systems and automation. One of the projects I did part of was the commissioning of part of the G3 Upgrade project at Alcan Gove in Northern Australia. On the day I was there there were about 25-30 doing the induction. This guy walks in and simply says "If you can't handle being stripped naked and held under a shower for 30minutes then F*CK OFF! There's the door F*CK OFF!" It was a shock tactic, but then he explained why. To get the aluminium to dissolve out of the bauxite they use Caustic at high temp and high pressure. Its called the Bayer process and its how the Bayer family really made their money before shifting into pharmaceuticals. I'd worked at mines where we had 100% pure sulphuric acid (H2SO4), that came out of a sulphur fired power station. the real danger of 100% pure H2SO4 isn't that its pure because in its pure form its not that dangerous. It gets insanely dangerous when it meets water because H2SO4 needs water so it can split into the H+ and SO4- parts. It gets monumentally dangerous when its about 87% H2SO4 and 13% H2O, because there's enough water for it to split and then react with what ever it comes into contact with. HOWEVER 100% H2SO4 is nothing compared to the Hot Caustic they use in an Alumina refinery. If you get H2SO4 on you then adding water dilutes it and washes it away. Hot Caustic does NOT dilute it sticks to human flesh and because of the heat it then causes the skin pores to open up to get rid of the heat. You can then get the caustic going into the skin pores and staying there as it burns flesh and eats flesh. All you can do is get naked and get in a cold shower and wash it away as fast as you can and then stay there for at least 20 minutes preferably 30 and hope the caustic washes away. We had all this explained to us at Gove and then he added that if he showed us photos of caustic burns we'd all run from the building screaming. AND YES I KNOW WHY POWDERED Aluminium is dangerous. Its one of the main ingredients in certain forms of solid rocket fuel where its mixed with ammonium-nitrate. What many people do not realise is just how reactive Aluminium is. Most of the time it reacts with oxygen in the air so fast we never realise that anything has happened. As a solid bar its hard to get Al to ignite because there's not much surface area and that area is usually coated with a layer of aluminium oxide from reacting with the air. That layer might only be atoms thin but its enough to protect what's underneath. HOWEVER when when AL has lots of surface area like you get with the swarf, ribbons or chips from machining it then that stuff can get going very easily AND YES I HAVE SEEN IT HAPPEN. BUT THEN IN POWDERED FORM there's so much surface area per gram of AL that the whole lot can go off. Similarly people mistake with things like wheat and sugar. Wheat seems harmless because we make bread from it, BUT the dust that you get in wheat silos goes bang and its a big bang. The sugar we put in our coffee is crystalline but if you look in the bottom of any sugar jar there's a fine powder from the crystals grinding against each other. In a sugar mill you can get lots of that powder and it can accumulate in corners. If it gets disturbed and goes airborne then it can explode. Go look up dust explosions here on YT.
This channel is criminally under-subbed. The fact its not at 100k, 500k, or 1 mil+ is bonkers. Hopefully this changes very soon along with the Nuclear Power Plants being built in the US
Funny thing about everything that happens is not talked about “TRANSPORTATION”!🤨. Nothing is ever said about those who move products so you can make assemblies. We are a cog in the wheel but w/o transportation infrastructure nothing can happen!
He's making a meaningless distinction about factories there. The benefit of assembly in a factory versus assembly on site is that you get higher productivity. You organize all the people, equipment and logistics in this one place to work lockstep with each other. You can't do that on site because there are always differences in logistics, personnel and so on. And on top of all that, automation is very difficult to do and very susceptible to change. It might take you a few weeks to set up a robot in a factory to do a task, but once you've done that you're not going to move it for months or even years. That doesn't work on site. It's easier to bring the product to the factory than it is to bring the factory to the product.
@@chapter4travels no CO2 emissions is the point for going nuclear but so little energy is electricity. Nuclear promoters are confusing reality with fantasy. 15% of all energy used today is electricit energy. So little electricity will be generated unless the grid capacity is expanded.
Why if we are just replacing existing generation (coal) with nuclear. New demand gets new distribution which is paid for by the new demand, just like it always has. There is nothing new here.
@@chapter4travels because EVs are a big part of the world's future, then the combination of huge electricity storage and renewable electricity from rooftop solar PV means that the grid is only needed as a backup infrastructure. Electricity is dirt cheap. Grid infrastructure is extremely expensive. Today's grid electricity is a necessary part of a much bigger energy mix. The grid makes bulk central generation expensive at the customer's location. So the nuclear electricity industry has 3 major problems. 1. The grid between central generation and the customers. It is extremely expensive. A little was perfect. 2. 80% of the world's population is in dictatorships. Defence Budgets will explode if nuclear industries are in every country. And no CO2 emissions worldwide. 3. Electricity energy storage technology and rooftop solar PV renewable electricity on the customers roof does not need more grid capacity construction. This one feature is an extremely important saving. A huge saving. Even nuclear promoters talk about grid costs. Nuclear promoters talk about no CO2 emissions AND grid costs for distant renewables. They talk about UNLIMITED clean electricity and GRID LIMITED distant renewables. And ELECTRIC VEHICLES with electric storage.
If and when we get to MSRs with temperatures so high that vast amounts of cooling water are not required to maximize turbine efficiencies, such plants could be built anywhere. The entire concept of long distance transmission of power from favorable cooling water sources or fossil fuel supplies would be eliminated. Power flows on existing bulk transmission could be minimized, reversed or their rights of way simply used for local services of any type, including short radial outward power delivery from local fail safe nuclear plants to local loads. The whole concept of needing a national grid would be eliminated by nearby backup plants that, over time, could also supply process heat to all local industries w/o need to generate electricity or carry it on "the grid".
@@chapter4travels @chapter4travels because EVs are a big part of the world's future, then the combination of huge electricity storage and renewable electricity from rooftop solar PV means that the grid is only needed as a backup infrastructure. Electricity is dirt cheap. Grid infrastructure is extremely expensive. Today's grid electricity is a necessary part of a much bigger energy mix. The grid makes bulk central generation expensive at the customer's location. So the nuclear electricity industry has 3 major problems. 1. The grid between central generation and the customers. It is extremely expensive. A little was perfect. 2. 80% of the world's population is in dictatorships. Defence Budgets will explode if nuclear industries are in every country. And no CO2 emissions worldwide. 3. Electricity energy storage technology and rooftop solar PV renewable electricity on the customers roof does not need more grid capacity construction. This one feature is an extremely important saving. A huge saving. Even nuclear promoters talk about grid costs. Nuclear promoters talk about no CO2 emissions AND grid costs for distant renewables. They talk about UNLIMITED clean electricity and GRID LIMITED distant renewables. And ELECTRIC VEHICLES with electric storage.
@@robertmeredith3940 because EVs are a big part of the world's future, then the combination of huge electricity storage and renewable electricity from rooftop solar PV means that the grid is only needed as a backup infrastructure. Electricity is dirt cheap. Grid infrastructure is extremely expensive. Today's grid electricity is a necessary part of a much bigger energy mix. The grid makes bulk central generation expensive at the customer's location. So the nuclear electricity industry has 3 major problems. 1. The grid between central generation and the customers. It is extremely expensive. A little was perfect. 2. 80% of the world's population is in dictatorships. Defence Budgets will explode if nuclear industries are in every country. And no CO2 emissions worldwide. 3. Electricity energy storage technology and rooftop solar PV renewable electricity on the customers roof does not need more grid capacity construction. This one feature is an extremely important saving. A huge saving. Even nuclear promoters talk about grid costs. Nuclear promoters talk about no CO2 emissions AND grid costs for distant renewables. They talk about UNLIMITED clean electricity and GRID LIMITED distant renewables. And ELECTRIC VEHICLES with electric storage. Operators are expensive, and 3 shifts 24/7/365 in the suburbs because of the intensity of the process will still be very expensive.
The scariest plant I've been in is an aluminium powder plant. 1 or 2 apparently go up somewhere around the world, and quite spectacular. It was also the shortest site induction ever. Basically if the siren goes off, then run. No assembly point, just keep running.
Dude ya, when Ford started making the F-150s out of Aluminum that was one of the things the body shops all had to learn about, how dangerous it can be if it's powdered up and filled a room it'll go boom boom
A friend of mine visited the ESA launch site in French Guiana. The instructions were indeed very similar. Everyone was told to leave the keys in their car, and if the alarm went off - just get a car, any car and drive away as fast as you can.
I have a similar close plant and it regards the same element - Aluminium
Sorry this is longish, but I get where you are coming from.
FYI - I have a degree in aerospace but have spent 35+ years in industrial control systems and automation.
One of the projects I did part of was the commissioning of part of the G3 Upgrade project at Alcan Gove in Northern Australia. On the day I was there there were about 25-30 doing the induction.
This guy walks in and simply says "If you can't handle being stripped naked and held under a shower for 30minutes then F*CK OFF! There's the door F*CK OFF!"
It was a shock tactic, but then he explained why.
To get the aluminium to dissolve out of the bauxite they use Caustic at high temp and high pressure. Its called the Bayer process and its how the Bayer family really made their money before shifting into pharmaceuticals.
I'd worked at mines where we had 100% pure sulphuric acid (H2SO4), that came out of a sulphur fired power station. the real danger of 100% pure H2SO4 isn't that its pure because in its pure form its not that dangerous. It gets insanely dangerous when it meets water because H2SO4 needs water so it can split into the H+ and SO4- parts. It gets monumentally dangerous when its about 87% H2SO4 and 13% H2O, because there's enough water for it to split and then react with what ever it comes into contact with.
HOWEVER 100% H2SO4 is nothing compared to the Hot Caustic they use in an Alumina refinery.
If you get H2SO4 on you then adding water dilutes it and washes it away.
Hot Caustic does NOT dilute it sticks to human flesh and because of the heat it then causes the skin pores to open up to get rid of the heat. You can then get the caustic going into the skin pores and staying there as it burns flesh and eats flesh.
All you can do is get naked and get in a cold shower and wash it away as fast as you can and then stay there for at least 20 minutes preferably 30 and hope the caustic washes away.
We had all this explained to us at Gove and then he added that if he showed us photos of caustic burns we'd all run from the building screaming.
AND YES I KNOW WHY POWDERED Aluminium is dangerous. Its one of the main ingredients in certain forms of solid rocket fuel where its mixed with ammonium-nitrate. What many people do not realise is just how reactive Aluminium is. Most of the time it reacts with oxygen in the air so fast we never realise that anything has happened.
As a solid bar its hard to get Al to ignite because there's not much surface area and that area is usually coated with a layer of aluminium oxide from reacting with the air. That layer might only be atoms thin but its enough to protect what's underneath. HOWEVER when when AL has lots of surface area like you get with the swarf, ribbons or chips from machining it then that stuff can get going very easily AND YES I HAVE SEEN IT HAPPEN.
BUT THEN IN POWDERED FORM there's so much surface area per gram of AL that the whole lot can go off.
Similarly people mistake with things like wheat and sugar. Wheat seems harmless because we make bread from it, BUT the dust that you get in wheat silos goes bang and its a big bang. The sugar we put in our coffee is crystalline but if you look in the bottom of any sugar jar there's a fine powder from the crystals grinding against each other. In a sugar mill you can get lots of that powder and it can accumulate in corners. If it gets disturbed and goes airborne then it can explode. Go look up dust explosions here on YT.
I do not know how I landed here, but damn that is interesting!
This channel is criminally under-subbed. The fact its not at 100k, 500k, or 1 mil+ is bonkers. Hopefully this changes very soon along with the Nuclear Power Plants being built in the US
Which power plants are being built in the US? Does the NRC know about them?
@@chapter4travels I was just saying that there needs to be new plants being built same as new subs being added to the channel
Share it with someone who needs to learn more about energy!
I agree that this channel is criminally undersubscibed. Dr. Keefer, you are awesome.
www.youtube.com/@USCSB has some great chemical disaster videos.
Funny thing about everything that happens is not talked about “TRANSPORTATION”!🤨. Nothing is ever said about those who move products so you can make assemblies. We are a cog in the wheel but w/o transportation infrastructure nothing can happen!
Chemical engineers talk engineering to chemists.
And talk chemistry to engineers.
😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊
He's making a meaningless distinction about factories there. The benefit of assembly in a factory versus assembly on site is that you get higher productivity. You organize all the people, equipment and logistics in this one place to work lockstep with each other. You can't do that on site because there are always differences in logistics, personnel and so on. And on top of all that, automation is very difficult to do and very susceptible to change. It might take you a few weeks to set up a robot in a factory to do a task, but once you've done that you're not going to move it for months or even years. That doesn't work on site. It's easier to bring the product to the factory than it is to bring the factory to the product.
Who builds the grid, nobody 🤔 😒 🙄
With nuclear, you don't need to.
@@chapter4travels no CO2 emissions is the point for going nuclear but so little energy is electricity.
Nuclear promoters are confusing reality with fantasy.
15% of all energy used today is electricit energy.
So little electricity will be generated unless the grid capacity is expanded.
Think about a nuclear power plant the same as you do either a coal or natural gas plant just with a different source of heat.
That's how I like to think of it, but the guest here says there's a bunch of problems with that analogy.
@@jeffbenton6183 That's because he is referring to low-temperature/high-pressure water reactors.
Grid is not a metaphor.
Hello, hello, anyone home, hello 👋
More nuclear electricity needs more grid capacity.
I AM AN CONSTRUCTION ENGINEER. Hello 👋.
Why if we are just replacing existing generation (coal) with nuclear.
New demand gets new distribution which is paid for by the new demand, just like it always has. There is nothing new here.
@@chapter4travels because EVs are a big part of the world's future, then the combination of huge electricity storage and renewable electricity from rooftop solar PV means that the grid is only needed as a backup infrastructure.
Electricity is dirt cheap.
Grid infrastructure is extremely expensive.
Today's grid electricity is a necessary part of a much bigger energy mix.
The grid makes bulk central generation expensive at the customer's location.
So the nuclear electricity industry has 3 major problems.
1. The grid between central generation and the customers. It is extremely expensive. A little was perfect.
2. 80% of the world's population is in dictatorships. Defence Budgets will explode if nuclear industries are in every country. And no CO2 emissions worldwide.
3. Electricity energy storage technology and rooftop solar PV renewable electricity on the customers roof does not need more grid capacity construction.
This one feature is an extremely important saving. A huge saving.
Even nuclear promoters talk about grid costs.
Nuclear promoters talk about no CO2 emissions AND grid costs for distant renewables.
They talk about UNLIMITED clean electricity and GRID LIMITED distant renewables. And ELECTRIC VEHICLES with electric storage.
If and when we get to MSRs with temperatures so high that vast amounts of cooling water are not required to maximize turbine efficiencies, such plants could be built anywhere. The entire concept of long distance transmission of power from favorable cooling water sources or fossil fuel supplies would be eliminated. Power flows on existing bulk transmission could be minimized, reversed or their rights of way simply used for local services of any type, including short radial outward power delivery from local fail safe nuclear plants to local loads.
The whole concept of needing a national grid would be eliminated by nearby backup plants that, over time, could also supply process heat to all local industries w/o need to generate electricity or carry it on "the grid".
@@chapter4travels @chapter4travels because EVs are a big part of the world's future, then the combination of huge electricity storage and renewable electricity from rooftop solar PV means that the grid is only needed as a backup infrastructure.
Electricity is dirt cheap.
Grid infrastructure is extremely expensive.
Today's grid electricity is a necessary part of a much bigger energy mix.
The grid makes bulk central generation expensive at the customer's location.
So the nuclear electricity industry has 3 major problems.
1. The grid between central generation and the customers. It is extremely expensive. A little was perfect.
2. 80% of the world's population is in dictatorships. Defence Budgets will explode if nuclear industries are in every country. And no CO2 emissions worldwide.
3. Electricity energy storage technology and rooftop solar PV renewable electricity on the customers roof does not need more grid capacity construction.
This one feature is an extremely important saving. A huge saving.
Even nuclear promoters talk about grid costs.
Nuclear promoters talk about no CO2 emissions AND grid costs for distant renewables.
They talk about UNLIMITED clean electricity and GRID LIMITED distant renewables. And ELECTRIC VEHICLES with electric storage.
@@robertmeredith3940 because EVs are a big part of the world's future, then the combination of huge electricity storage and renewable electricity from rooftop solar PV means that the grid is only needed as a backup infrastructure.
Electricity is dirt cheap.
Grid infrastructure is extremely expensive.
Today's grid electricity is a necessary part of a much bigger energy mix.
The grid makes bulk central generation expensive at the customer's location.
So the nuclear electricity industry has 3 major problems.
1. The grid between central generation and the customers. It is extremely expensive. A little was perfect.
2. 80% of the world's population is in dictatorships. Defence Budgets will explode if nuclear industries are in every country. And no CO2 emissions worldwide.
3. Electricity energy storage technology and rooftop solar PV renewable electricity on the customers roof does not need more grid capacity construction.
This one feature is an extremely important saving. A huge saving.
Even nuclear promoters talk about grid costs.
Nuclear promoters talk about no CO2 emissions AND grid costs for distant renewables.
They talk about UNLIMITED clean electricity and GRID LIMITED distant renewables. And ELECTRIC VEHICLES with electric storage.
Operators are expensive, and 3 shifts 24/7/365 in the suburbs because of the intensity of the process will still be very expensive.