Great video, thanks! I’m 85 kg and use the Cruzader 6,6. I like the Sirus 136, but love the Fluid H 122 with this board. So depending on the conditions, I switch between these two foils. With the Sirus and a 7m Wing, I can fly through almost any wind hole by pumping slightly with the board. So my lower wind limit is now definitely in the race kite range.
Have you tried paddling up or downwinding this foil? I am looking for something for paddle ups and lightwind winging and it's either this or the 136. Also is your 6m the biggest you find you need with this foil?
Nice! I wonder, with time, you'll get use to the more roll sensitive dw board. Im very excited for the light days this year with my DW. I know my 5'2"×25" 90L is holding me back on the days where there is only streamers of 6-7knots coming across the bay. My 1150png will lift with very little speed, but my current board wont let me get there!
Another thing I would like to see was a comparison of the AFS White Bird 6'6 or 6'8 board with the CRUZADER DIAMOND 6'3 or 6'8. If someone neutrally manages to make this comparison, both are French brands that have done excellent development work.
Thanks for this. I’ve had the XXL Sirus (186) for about a year and had no luck. Its comes up so fast and powerfully that I can’t control it. Thought it was me but you had the same problem. Where did you have your mast position please? What tail was you using? Great video 👍
Thank you! What's your weight? I messed up my notes so not 100% sure about mast position. I think it was on 6 (front of HM86 mast base). The stab is Sirus 56cm. Definitely try bringing the mast position back if you have control issues.
I share the same Setup + Superpower 7.5 PrototypUpe /boom. 110kg its absolut amazing. But i have Problems of loose srews. After 1h all frontwingsrews are loose. But its a amazing Setup! 8kn are no longer a problem. 😂
Oh wow. For me only the top screw of the front wing (facing the board) comes loose very slightly during a session. But the bottom screws stay tight. However during the first sessions the screws connecting the mast with the new titanium fuselage came a bit loose (the front ones, close to the big Sirus front wing). I think the mast and the fuselage connection just needs to set a bit, I won't disconnect them anymore for a while and tighten them regularly, then it should be fine. Glad you're enjoying this setup too!
@@windaddict It is too bad that Gong did not solve the unscrewing. I bought screws for this connection which are one cm longer, so 6.5 cm. Before that they came undone and I even lost one.
Looks good. I just ordered a downwind board (Starboard Ace 7'4) I want to use this for light wind and to get into downwinding. I use Gong Foils and Wings but the boards are more expensive to ship to the USA than they actually cost. My current Gong Foils are the Curve XL (1900). I ride this most of the time. Fluid T (1950) light wind. and i have the Fluid H XLH (1500). I pretty use that in higher winds since it has great speed. I am about 90 kilo's. My mast is the 85 but regulard Carbon. Is the High Modulas a must? I was thinking about going with one of the sirus front wings as well but not sure which size. the one you have is really big. I was thinking the next size down but not sure and getting this wing is going to require the High Modulas mast? thanks as always for your input and the videos. Steve
Glad you enjoy my videos. Oh I didn't even know Starboard made downwind boards. May I ask what the price was? Around 2000 bucks? From what I can tell high modulus masts are especially relevant for wide foils. If you usually run smaller to medium-sized foils it's probably just a nice to have. I could tell that the HM mast made jibing a bit easier and more stable for me on the Fluid XL-H (112cm). Regarding the Sirus: I was also thinking about the 136cm but my preference was really to unlock super light winds (as of 5 knots). The Gong advisors recommended me the Sirus XXL (156cm) as the most efficient option for that for my weight (which is the same as your weight). The 136 would require a lot of pumping effort. Even with the 136cm you need a high modulus mast I think and even choose a specific one that was made for the big front wings (e.g. the HM86 instead of the HM85)
Morning. I paid $1600 for it. Didnt ship yet though. I will have to pick it up at a local airport which is fairly close. Was out yesterday afternoon in On shore super choppy conditions. Had my worst session in a year. LOL. wind was light and I was exhausted by the time it picked up. every time I went to switch my feet after my heelside to toeside gybe I fell and ended up getting dragged back to shore. On a side note I think I may switch to Armstrong. great sales going on with their A+ system. About the same cost as Gong HM but a couple of guys I know who rider swear by it. Gong is a little tough for me to deal with in the states too.@@windaddict
1600 is not too bad! Yes, foot switches in choppy conditions are tough. I also had a bad session recently with really chaotic waves coming from two directions. Made jibing so hard. Armstrong is probably good gear too. Here in Europe Gong is just by far the best bang for your buck.
Thanks for this video - I’m thinking of the same setup. I’m 72kg - is there any downside in using the same Sirius foil as you? I assume i would takeoff more easily / lighter wind - anything else I’m missing ?
Your weight is much lower than mine. I would assume that Cruzader 6'6 with Sirus 136cm would be the better setup for you. I was even interested in that combination for myself. But ask the Gong advisors, they are the best ones to tell you what gear makes sense for you.
I'm also 72 kg ,I have the Cruzader hype 7' ,I have the sirus 136 ,takes off very early but is a pig to gybe ,I also have a curve h XXL and it takes off at a similar speed maybe a tiny bit more wind required but maybe not but it feels much easier and controllable in gybes
Having adopted a similar same route Cruzader Hipe 7.6 and Curve 3XLH I have come to realise that the most challenging aspects of light wind winging (my definition is foiling faster than wind) is being backwinded during jibes (especially with large wing sizes 6 and above) - how have you dealt with this /can you share your technique ?
You are right, that is a huge challenge. I do the "pizza" jibe where you really focus on bringing the wing up so that it is horizontal and then push the strut to help the rotation. Lachie White recommends doing Heineken jibes and switching the feet before the jibe. But that is very hard to do for me in really light wind.
Hi Chris. Yeah the Cruzader is the model from 2023. A Gong advisor once told me that the Fluid XL-H I have is "a weapon" for downwinders. I also think it will be a very good size for that. I definitely want to try downwinders with that setup and a 4 m² wing (not SUP). I am not that interested in downwinders with a paddle. From what I can see it takes ages to learn that, so it would require a massive amount of dedication and you almost have to give up winging for it, which I am not ready to do. I also have knee problems so falling in and getting up on a wobbly board a million times is not very good for me. I tried flat water starting once with the Cruzader and my Sirus and I think it would be possible with a lot of practice. But I chose the non-XL version of the Cruzader because my focus is on winging. For using it to learn SUP foiling / SUP downwind the XL version in a bigger size (7'6) would have been better for my weight from what I can tell. Besides downwinding with a wing another interesting way to do it will be with electric foil assists once they are affordable (Gong is developing one).
Thank you for your report. Is it sea ? I do target to learn in the summer light winds, but I have doubts about the convenience of such a large board and in choppy water. The only reason to use such a large board is to get up, afterwards it is combersome probably...
Yes, it ride in the sea. This board will roll more easily in chop so it is less comfortable to get up compared to a conventional board. However I'm getting used to it. Once you are up on foil the board feels great. Doesn't feel too big at all. It is fairly compact for its volume and as Sebastian is saying: there is volume behind you "offsetting" the volume in front of you. So it still feels agile. Look at some of the new downwind boards like the Amos Bullet. They are way beyond 8' long and people say they feel fine when riding them.
@@sebastiangeitner6955 I agree that it helps that there is some material and weight behind you but it is still more material away from the center of rotation, the mast. So a bit harder to control the turning. Imagine that you have another meter in front and another meter at the back. Then you would agree it is harder to control I guess. But I like the long DW boards anyway, they do have their purpose.
The Fluid-H in the large sizes was not recommended to me by the Gong advisors, I think because it has the least amount of lift which would not be ideal for my super light wind objectives. The Curve 4XL-H would have been a good alternative to the Sirus. The difference is that the Curve is slower but better for maneuvers. I preferred glide and speed, so I went with the Sirus.
I hope next year it will be possible to do wingfoil and supfoil with 3 knots wind. 5-6 knots is good, but if we reach 3 knots it would be a dream, being able to wingfoil or sup foil, practically on any day.
Great summary and congratulations to your new setup, I hope they will serve you well ☺️ May I ask, why did you go with the 6m wing and not with the 7.5m? And do you think it was the right call? I'm a bit shorter and lighter than you are and was thinking about a 7.5m, but now I'm not so sure about it 😅
Thanks a lot! The whole idea of the Cruzader + Sirus setup for winging is to avoid very large wings. If you look at the Gong riders, they mostly use 5.5m² wings in super light winds, even the ones weighing 100kg. It is more about efficient pumping rather than the more passive style with large wings. Also makes maneuvers much more enjoyable. Wings above 6m² are not easy to pump and require a certain windspeed to be effective. If you ask the Gong advisors they will probably give you a better explanation than I can. They recommended a 6m² to me for my objectives.
I think you should compare that foil with a regular board that floats you. My theory is the foil is doing most of the light wind work. Not the board. If the board doesn’t allow you to use your smaller foil I don’t see the advantage
Even the Sirus needs some take-off speed. To reach this speed in 6-8 knots of wind the DW boards have less resistance than a short board. I have seen vids were ppl use small sails like 5m2 to pump the small board up to speed in low wind.
The big foils lift at such low speed that I think a fast planing board that is wide will cancel a lot of the benefits of the downwind board of the same volume. I’ve seen a lot of things but I haven’t seen a skilled rider give a true scientific comparison in ultralight wind with a big foil. I do agree though that for a small wing the DW board might have a big advantage because there will be so little power in the wing. I’d love to do the comparison myself but I haven’t had a chance.
The best way to compare is to ride your downwind board with your high aspect foil and big wing for a month of light wind sessions. (I am riding the 135L 7'8" Duotone, 1401 AXIS and the 8m Ventis @ 105kg). Then after a month, switch back to your standard board and try it again in light winds (95L duotone in my case) with the same foil and wing. I can tell you the DW board simply stamps all over the standard boards for getting started in light wind. They are expensive, but they are a real session saver.
Great video, thanks! I’m 85 kg and use the Cruzader 6,6. I like the Sirus 136, but love the Fluid H 122 with this board. So depending on the conditions, I switch between these two foils. With the Sirus and a 7m Wing, I can fly through almost any wind hole by pumping slightly with the board. So my lower wind limit is now definitely in the race kite range.
Nice! Sounds like the gear is working out for you!
That's wild.
@@windaddict @seppmaier5545
How it feels to pump such a large board and is it usable for pumping by itself without the wing?
Have you tried paddling up or downwinding this foil? I am looking for something for paddle ups and lightwind winging and it's either this or the 136. Also is your 6m the biggest you find you need with this foil?
Nice! I wonder, with time, you'll get use to the more roll sensitive dw board. Im very excited for the light days this year with my DW. I know my 5'2"×25" 90L is holding me back on the days where there is only streamers of 6-7knots coming across the bay. My 1150png will lift with very little speed, but my current board wont let me get there!
Yes. Bring on the light summer breeze. We're ready ;-)
Awesome thx.
Glad you liked it!
Another thing I would like to see was a comparison of the AFS White Bird 6'6 or 6'8 board with the CRUZADER DIAMOND 6'3 or 6'8.
If someone neutrally manages to make this comparison, both are French brands that have done excellent development work.
I never heard of this AFS brand. Interesting.
Thanks for this.
I’ve had the XXL Sirus (186) for about a year and had no luck. Its comes up so fast and powerfully that I can’t control it. Thought it was me but you had the same problem.
Where did you have your mast position please?
What tail was you using?
Great video 👍
Thank you! What's your weight? I messed up my notes so not 100% sure about mast position. I think it was on 6 (front of HM86 mast base). The stab is Sirus 56cm. Definitely try bringing the mast position back if you have control issues.
I share the same Setup + Superpower 7.5 PrototypUpe /boom. 110kg its absolut amazing. But i have Problems of loose srews. After 1h all frontwingsrews are loose. But its a amazing Setup! 8kn are no longer a problem. 😂
I used to have a problem with loose screws on my Gong Curve XLT v1. I solved it by putting a screw-bolt through it and secured it with just a nut.
@@watercrazylion think of changing the srews to M8. At Moment i use longer ones + PTFE Tape.
Oh wow. For me only the top screw of the front wing (facing the board) comes loose very slightly during a session. But the bottom screws stay tight. However during the first sessions the screws connecting the mast with the new titanium fuselage came a bit loose (the front ones, close to the big Sirus front wing). I think the mast and the fuselage connection just needs to set a bit, I won't disconnect them anymore for a while and tighten them regularly, then it should be fine. Glad you're enjoying this setup too!
@@windaddict It is too bad that Gong did not solve the unscrewing. I bought screws for this connection which are one cm longer, so 6.5 cm. Before that they came undone and I even lost one.
@@watercrazylion you mean for the mast / fuselage connection?
Looks good. I just ordered a downwind board (Starboard Ace 7'4) I want to use this for light wind and to get into downwinding. I use Gong Foils and Wings but the boards are more expensive to ship to the USA than they actually cost. My current Gong Foils are the Curve XL (1900). I ride this most of the time. Fluid T (1950) light wind. and i have the Fluid H XLH (1500). I pretty use that in higher winds since it has great speed. I am about 90 kilo's. My mast is the 85 but regulard Carbon. Is the High Modulas a must? I was thinking about going with one of the sirus front wings as well but not sure which size. the one you have is really big. I was thinking the next size down but not sure and getting this wing is going to require the High Modulas mast? thanks as always for your input and the videos.
Steve
Glad you enjoy my videos. Oh I didn't even know Starboard made downwind boards. May I ask what the price was? Around 2000 bucks? From what I can tell high modulus masts are especially relevant for wide foils. If you usually run smaller to medium-sized foils it's probably just a nice to have. I could tell that the HM mast made jibing a bit easier and more stable for me on the Fluid XL-H (112cm). Regarding the Sirus: I was also thinking about the 136cm but my preference was really to unlock super light winds (as of 5 knots). The Gong advisors recommended me the Sirus XXL (156cm) as the most efficient option for that for my weight (which is the same as your weight). The 136 would require a lot of pumping effort. Even with the 136cm you need a high modulus mast I think and even choose a specific one that was made for the big front wings (e.g. the HM86 instead of the HM85)
Morning. I paid $1600 for it. Didnt ship yet though. I will have to pick it up at a local airport which is fairly close.
Was out yesterday afternoon in On shore super choppy conditions. Had my worst session in a year. LOL. wind was light and I was exhausted by the time it picked up. every time I went to switch my feet after my heelside to toeside gybe I fell and ended up getting dragged back to shore.
On a side note I think I may switch to Armstrong. great sales going on with their A+ system. About the same cost as Gong HM but a couple of guys I know who rider swear by it. Gong is a little tough for me to deal with in the states too.@@windaddict
1600 is not too bad! Yes, foot switches in choppy conditions are tough. I also had a bad session recently with really chaotic waves coming from two directions. Made jibing so hard. Armstrong is probably good gear too. Here in Europe Gong is just by far the best bang for your buck.
Thanks for this video - I’m thinking of the same setup. I’m 72kg - is there any downside in using the same Sirius foil as you? I assume i would takeoff more easily / lighter wind - anything else I’m missing ?
Lightwindperformance: Cruzader > Sirius
Your weight is much lower than mine. I would assume that Cruzader 6'6 with Sirus 136cm would be the better setup for you. I was even interested in that combination for myself. But ask the Gong advisors, they are the best ones to tell you what gear makes sense for you.
I'm also 72 kg ,I have the Cruzader hype 7' ,I have the sirus 136 ,takes off very early but is a pig to gybe ,I also have a curve h XXL and it takes off at a similar speed maybe a tiny bit more wind required but maybe not but it feels much easier and controllable in gybes
Having adopted a similar same route Cruzader Hipe 7.6 and Curve 3XLH I have come to realise that the most challenging aspects of light wind winging (my definition is foiling faster than wind) is being backwinded during jibes (especially with large wing sizes 6 and above) - how have you dealt with this /can you share your technique ?
You are right, that is a huge challenge. I do the "pizza" jibe where you really focus on bringing the wing up so that it is horizontal and then push the strut to help the rotation. Lachie White recommends doing Heineken jibes and switching the feet before the jibe. But that is very hard to do for me in really light wind.
Thanks for sharing. How do you think the set up crusader (is it v 1?) and fluid xl h will work for sup down wind
Thanks buddy
Hi Chris. Yeah the Cruzader is the model from 2023. A Gong advisor once told me that the Fluid XL-H I have is "a weapon" for downwinders. I also think it will be a very good size for that. I definitely want to try downwinders with that setup and a 4 m² wing (not SUP). I am not that interested in downwinders with a paddle. From what I can see it takes ages to learn that, so it would require a massive amount of dedication and you almost have to give up winging for it, which I am not ready to do. I also have knee problems so falling in and getting up on a wobbly board a million times is not very good for me. I tried flat water starting once with the Cruzader and my Sirus and I think it would be possible with a lot of practice. But I chose the non-XL version of the Cruzader because my focus is on winging. For using it to learn SUP foiling / SUP downwind the XL version in a bigger size (7'6) would have been better for my weight from what I can tell. Besides downwinding with a wing another interesting way to do it will be with electric foil assists once they are affordable (Gong is developing one).
@windaddict thanks great info really appreciate it 👍
Thank you for your report.
Is it sea ?
I do target to learn in the summer light winds, but I have doubts about the convenience of such a large board and in choppy water. The only reason to use such a large board is to get up, afterwards it is combersome probably...
The length of the crusader does not interfere to the riding performance, because the most of the length is behind you.
@@sebastiangeitner6955 interesting
Yes, it ride in the sea. This board will roll more easily in chop so it is less comfortable to get up compared to a conventional board. However I'm getting used to it. Once you are up on foil the board feels great. Doesn't feel too big at all. It is fairly compact for its volume and as Sebastian is saying: there is volume behind you "offsetting" the volume in front of you. So it still feels agile. Look at some of the new downwind boards like the Amos Bullet. They are way beyond 8' long and people say they feel fine when riding them.
@@sebastiangeitner6955 I agree that it helps that there is some material and weight behind you but it is still more material away from the center of rotation, the mast. So a bit harder to control the turning. Imagine that you have another meter in front and another meter at the back. Then you would agree it is harder to control I guess. But I like the long DW boards anyway, they do have their purpose.
Why'd you chose the Sirus and not one of the newer H-Variants of Fluid/Curve/... of same size ~150cm wingspan?
They sound a bit more versatile to me.
The Fluid-H in the large sizes was not recommended to me by the Gong advisors, I think because it has the least amount of lift which would not be ideal for my super light wind objectives. The Curve 4XL-H would have been a good alternative to the Sirus. The difference is that the Curve is slower but better for maneuvers. I preferred glide and speed, so I went with the Sirus.
I hope next year it will be possible to do wingfoil and supfoil with 3 knots wind.
5-6 knots is good, but if we reach 3 knots it would be a dream, being able to wingfoil or sup foil, practically on any day.
I don't think 3 knots is possible unless you have an electric foil assist.
@@windaddict There are videos on UA-cam of people kitesurfing with 3 knots, for this reason I believe it is possible
Great summary and congratulations to your new setup, I hope they will serve you well ☺️
May I ask, why did you go with the 6m wing and not with the 7.5m? And do you think it was the right call? I'm a bit shorter and lighter than you are and was thinking about a 7.5m, but now I'm not so sure about it 😅
Thanks a lot! The whole idea of the Cruzader + Sirus setup for winging is to avoid very large wings. If you look at the Gong riders, they mostly use 5.5m² wings in super light winds, even the ones weighing 100kg. It is more about efficient pumping rather than the more passive style with large wings. Also makes maneuvers much more enjoyable. Wings above 6m² are not easy to pump and require a certain windspeed to be effective. If you ask the Gong advisors they will probably give you a better explanation than I can. They recommended a 6m² to me for my objectives.
@@windaddict Thanks, this makes a lot of sense ☺️
I think you should compare that foil with a regular board that floats you. My theory is the foil is doing most of the light wind work. Not the board. If the board doesn’t allow you to use your smaller foil I don’t see the advantage
Even the Sirus needs some take-off speed. To reach this speed in 6-8 knots of wind the DW boards have less resistance than a short board. I have seen vids were ppl use small sails like 5m2 to pump the small board up to speed in low wind.
The big foils lift at such low speed that I think a fast planing board that is wide will cancel a lot of the benefits of the downwind board of the same volume. I’ve seen a lot of things but I haven’t seen a skilled rider give a true scientific comparison in ultralight wind with a big foil. I do agree though that for a small wing the DW board might have a big advantage because there will be so little power in the wing.
I’d love to do the comparison myself but I haven’t had a chance.
I agree with what watercrazylion said
The best way to compare is to ride your downwind board with your high aspect foil and big wing for a month of light wind sessions. (I am riding the 135L 7'8" Duotone, 1401 AXIS and the 8m Ventis @ 105kg). Then after a month, switch back to your standard board and try it again in light winds (95L duotone in my case) with the same foil and wing. I can tell you the DW board simply stamps all over the standard boards for getting started in light wind. They are expensive, but they are a real session saver.
That’s still subjective. I want an actual scientific / measurable test to quantify the difference. Is it 1 mph? 1 wing size? Etc.