Bicycle Descending Tips for Everyone Who’s NOT Tom Pidcock - Please excuse mansplaining (she asked)
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- Опубліковано 26 вер 2024
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I feel critical advice is missing: if you're descending at speed, always be in the drops. If your hands are on the hoods, hitting a bump at speed will easily knock the handlebar out of your hands, in the drops this will likely not happen. I heard this is how many pros went down in the Basque crash, hitting a bump in a corner while being on the hoods.
not sure about basque crash, but you're right i should have mentioned to be in the drops. helps to absorb impacts/bumps/g forces, better angle if you need to brake hard, and (I think most important) puts your weight lower
On the drops you can also apply more force on the brakes in an emergency. Not relevant to to hydraulic discs.
I've been riding for > 30 years and heard this a million times, but I've never been able to feel comfortable descending in the drops. My upper body and shoulders feel restricted, I can't look forward as well and it is generally uncomfortable all-round. I never ride in the drops on the flats either. And yes, I have been bike-fitted by a professional, multilple times. Nevertheless I consider myself a good recreational descender who can go reasonably fast yet safe. Braking power is a non-issue; even with rim-brakes I have plenty power when braking from the hoods. Enough to lock both tires. The 'always descend in the drops' is probably good general advice for most people, but if it feels uncomfortable, even after giving it a good try, it maybe just doesn't fit your flexibility. This is not a big thing, descending from the hoods fast & safe is definitely possible.
You mean to tell us, we shouldn't be descending like SAFA Brian?
haha DEFINTELY NOT like him
safa still alive ? maybe he just respawns
He's crazy...
Mess life for over a decade in the craziest city and then you can try descending like SAFA, but still don’t.
Everyone hates cyclists because of guys like this SAFA Brian. Dont be that guy.
“I am not Tom Pidcock” a motto for us all 😂
yet someone forgets, every ride
Nah I got a cat 2 XC race this weekend with a guy more fit than me. I gotta summon my inner Pidcock
If you've gone through a downhill turn 99 times, the 100th time, there might be some sand in the apex. Be aware.
I’m not fast, and the only segment I’m faster than Phil on is the Palomar descent, so you can rest easy knowing he’s not lying about taking all the descents easy since he retired.
hahaha
You also crashed that one time at the top of the hill. 😉
It should be wieght on outside foot but inside hand on the bars.
Interesting you say you rear brake for slowing and front for moderating. I was always told front is more effective due to weight distribution so main stopping power from front not rear. Obviously a front lock up to be avoided at all costs(!).
I should send this video to my friend Primoz
Reducing tire pressure to 100 psi in the rain. Yeah, that was a real thing. Seems laughable now.
I still remember a group ride from about 25 years ago. Other guy was pumping up his tires and one blew; it literally sounded like a gun shot. He was putting 140 psig in them!
I crashed on a wet descent and earned myself a broken leg. The hardest thing for me was regaining confidence in stopping the bike. For most of last year, I'd ride the brakes all the way down, constantly afraid of speed. Wish I had this video last year.
I could use a whole video on braking (please).
@@mzeier feather the brakes. That is apply the break and release a bit .,apply,release,apply, release in quick succession, imitating car ABS braking to avoid skidding.
Thanks for the video Phil,
At 3:38, if you want to turn left you should actually push on the left handlebar.
This is counter steering, they teach this technique when riding motor bikes because you're likely at higher speeds. This is also applicable for road bikes but at high speeds such as decents.
100%. Best advice I ever received
Yeah, weight on inside bar and outside foot.
The way I always thought about it was to not use my body to lean the bike into the turn, but to keep my shoulders square to the road surface and lean the bike into the turn independent of my body. It’s not only good technique for descending, but essential for fast tight criterion corners. And frankly, that’s what got me at age 40 from cat 3 to cat 2 (at 5’11” and 175 lbs/ 80kg). I could go to the front late in the race, scream through the technical parts and no one could hold my wheel. I taught this to all of my teammates and we ended up with the number one amateur team in the region. Also, you’d be surprised how much resistance people have to this idea. I can’t tell you how many times people tried to convince me that I was dead wrong, and the body should be leaned *into* the corner, ‘just like on a motorcycle.’ And when you watch the pro -peloton you can tell that people can rise to the very highest levels of the sport without ever learning this. And my question always is- why haven’t the pro coaches taught them this?
Thank goodness is not just me. It is counter steering, and you do that by leaning the bike more than your body, hence the cues of placing weight on the outside leg and the inside handlebar.
Any steering is counter-steering. Normal steering does not exist. See the video on it by FortNine
I've seen a lot of videos on how to descend, but you're the only person to suggest paying attention to the advisory speed signs. Well done!
I'm still recovering from a broken collarbone after my tires washed out on a turn. Not sure how I'll ever get any confidence on turns like this.
time
I feel you. I’m in a very similar situation. Let’s see how it goes. Good luck! Let’s keep the rubber side down.
@@worstretirementever and more collarbones
I mean isn't that why they break? to save the other parts?
Regarding hazards, on my regular training routes and on quiet descents I know well, I'll often challenge myself to take the outside line around 'safe' hazards like a leaf or stone on the road. Not super fast or crazy, but I find it useful to use this sort of practice to reinforce what your current limits are, have a think about how you approached and went round the target and what you might need to tweak. Did I spend too much time looking at the obstacle and not enough looking forward to where I wanted my wheels to go, did I move my weight over the front wheel etc? Keep up with this sort of practice and you have something to fall back on when you do come across a real surprise that you need to react to.
I set the screen of my head unit to maps so when I glance down I get a can get a sense of the curves coming up.
0:50 "That's some boomer shit" - Cookie Monster 3:16 😂
Thank you, Phil and Emily ❤ I was just going to ask you to make a video about this! Perfect timing especially with Cookie Fondo coming up. Looking forward to updates on Emily’s race for City of Hope ❤
Thank you!
One tip I use a lot is braking late in the corners. You said to finish braking before you hit the turn, but the fastest way to descend is to have a smooth line and brake late.
That’s something I learned from mountain biking.
Also I would add… don’t try to snack by reaching into your back jersey while descending and riding temporarily with one hand, because if you hit any imperfection on the road, it’s not gonna be a fun time. Ask me how I know.
I've been riding for decades - I used to be fast, but now I'm old and don't bounce as well as I used to. My tip for newer riders trying to 'get faster' going down the road or trail has always been "Focus on riding smoothly, not fast. Once you are smooth, the speed will come". This was a good video for folks to watch. I enjoy your content Phil! One other thing to consider if changing lines or crossing the middle of your lane is to watch out for the 'oil slick' in the middle of the lane - cars that leak oil tend to do it from the middle of the car between the wheels... Esp if the road is wet, the center of the lane can be quite slippery.
thank you!
A lot of what goes into bike descending really just is completely physically intuitive, and you just have to do it a lot and kind of trust yourself and the way your body moves.
Helps if you’ve been riding a bike your whole life, but if you’re starting at an older age, just take it slow and pay attention to what works and do not go outside your comfort zone until you really have some time.
Nail compliment
Always take descending advice from a climber :)
Best downhill I ever got was lean the bike not the rider, and everything smooth (no abrupt speed or course or pace or anything changes…)
Did Emily really think you crashed? Asking for a friend.
Going as fast as possible downhill is single-handedly why I am a cyclist.
But I assume that precludes me from being within the "normal" people category this video was targeted at.
Hell yeah. Same. 🤙
I'm glad I got that out of my system in bike races, but I completely understand
I really wish you had mentioned counter-steering. It’s the most important aspect of cornering. Tiny changes in pressure on the inside bar will either tighten your turn or loosen it up. Those micro adjustments give you direct control over your turn. You don’t turn a bike by leaning, the bike leans when you tell it to.
I think countersteering is a bit more advanced that I needed to go in this one. I'm not looking to help folks maximize speed. 90% of it is having your weight and your eyes in the same place
@@worstretirementever Yeah, you're right. It's best saved for your 200 level course.
Speaking of courses, I miss seeing you out on the ATOC and TOU routes. Those were halcyon days, man.
Great tips. Being relaxed is very important. This way you won't get in the way of a right-sized bike descending for you.
I promise I I'm not lying: I rode down Fremont pass in Colorado with a significant tailwind once on my Tarmac SL3. I truly hit 64 MPH. YES. That number is real. Here are my tips:
1. Yes. Look way way ahead and not directly in front of you.
2. The formula is 1 part weight x two parts crazy. The easiest way to put this is you must not think about crashing. If you do you will. Just like in a crit, if you think you will get crashed out, you will. Falling should never enter your mind.
3. Lastly, just like in war. If you fall (die) at that speed you are already dead and will not have the reaction time to deal with it.
Stay positive, ride smart, be crazy, and don't hesitate.
4. Extra tip. Don't listen to me. I got lucky with the tailwind on a basically straight decent. I also weighed over 230 LBS at the time and I was so young. I did not have even the slightest worry about what could happen if I hit even the smallest pebble.
To summarize don't do this, don't listen to me and pay all of your attention to Phil.
64 mph is fun to brag about... Getting ragdoled down a pass is not.
Do not try this at home!!!!
Phil: you should probably run lower tire pressures. Me, excited headed to Silca's calculator. Nope, still a very large human. 98psi :(
If you really want to master descending, take up downhill mountain biking! Some tips:
- Get your butt off the saddle when cornering. Sitting on the saddle mid corner is terrible technique (most roadies do this).
- Eyes up at all times. Fast eyes = fast cornering. Hands on the hoods.
- Do NOT push on the inside handlebar when cornering! You will lose traction on the front tires. Neutral weight on the bars.
- Lean the bike but do NOT lean with it. This is not a motorcycle! Most of the weight transfer should be straight down from your hips to the bottom bracket and pedals.
- Trail braking mid corner is perfectly fine once you become an advanced descender.
Great multi colored design and shape Emily! Phil, your nails a great too 😊. Thanks for the tips.
Great stuff. Don't forget your lane position can help maximize your line of sight.
I like the idea for 1/2 or so of your weight onto the front tire, not on the seat, by putting weight on the pedal or crank and putting some on the handlebars. From bicycle and motorcycle experience on pavement and dirt and grass.
Good video. Bike handling/technique is something all riders can practice and apply.
Be more conservative on right hand turns (non-British traffic rules) than left hand. Overcooking the former can put you in the path of oncoming traffic, which is usually more serious than going off the right shoulder in an overcooked left turn.
There's a beautiful little hill in my town that's perfect for descending. It's 12%, it's straight, there's no driveways, and the asphalt is in beautiful condition. Unfortunately it's only about a mile long. We do what we can here in Ohio.
Thank you for this! I’ve never been a racer so I’ve always put safety first in every ride. Descending is the one thing that has always made me push the boundaries on my own safety, since I’ve gotten really good at it over the years. It’s so easy to confuse confidence with security and I’ve had a couple close calls recently while descending. I needed this reminder that you can still have 90% of the fun at 80% of the speed (and arguably 50% increased safety)
You know you're doing it right when Phil compliments your descending at the Oregon Gran Fondo. Ask me how I know. Cheers!
What a great and simple common sense approach to approach descending. I am not Tom Piddock, but boy I do enjoy a great descent. I had lost a little of my edge and that is mainly to not being able to see the hazards. When I'm not comfortable I dial it down. Bombing down a descent with 10 hidden driveways is a great way to become a hood ornament. Thanks for the great content.
If you're trying to stay safe (or even to wring the absolute most out of linked turns) then aim to hit the apex maybe 2/3 of the way through the corner so you're in a good position on the road to start the next turn. A race driver once told me to aim through the apex at the turn in of the next corner (not quite their words, but the general idea), and that's given me time and space to recover a few times when odd stuff happened.
Gravel in the middle of the road can still catch you out though, and I've still got a few Italian wound dressings in my first aid kit from re-learning that lesson,
Phil. I recently wanted to re-listen to your great podcast interview with Peter Walker but all the episodes older than the Tour Unchained stuff don't appear on any platform I've tried. Anywhere I can listen to the please? Thank you
Getting your butt off the saddle is also a good idea, lowers c of g, gives you better human powered suspension.
I had a nasty crash on a descent last year(another rider crashed into me on RAGBRAI) and I've had the descending yips ever since. Appreciate the tips as I try to work my way out of it.
I just came back from the pro race in Montréal. I was at the bottom of the 50mph hill at the hard right. Tadej pogacar was alone and he looked like he was going straight. They are a different breed.
One thing I always tell people is if you happen to be descending the same road you are climbing. Look for rocks, dirt patches, potholes etc on the way up. Especially if you are going to rip it. I wouldn't recommend doing so without surveying it first and without knowing the corners well. You might be fine most of the time or you might end up looking like Phil's fake fall on the side of the road 😂 I've had a few sketchy moments. Most recent was pushing Yerba a month ago my first time descending it on a bike and I overshot a descending radius corner a bit. Better to just not take chances.
Hitting apex after 2/3’s brings more safety margin and can create more speed out when you can start pedaling sooner.
How many pairs of sunglasses Phil has? Possibly nobody will ever know…
I shake my elbows a bit, especially while braking (as mentioned, preferably prior to the corner) because: gripping brakes = tight muscles = arms locked=oops not counter steering = straight off the road (hopefully not into a tree, even relatively low speed, this killed a cyclist here in Oregon a decade ago or so.) so I always hake my elbows as a reminder to stay loose. I’ll sometimes deliberately countersteer to lean the bike….
In a motorcycle class I was taught that in a corner speed is not a concern; the bike will stick as long as you look into the corner properly. We practiced and they were not happy with my technique until I finally cranked my head so far over I felt like I was looking backwards. “There you finally got it!” Hell,that class was mostly them emphasizing to look into the corner.
Finally the other thing I do is come out of the saddle a bit ( transfers weight to bottom bracket, thus more balanced front to rear) this is the same thing as putting weight on outside leg as mentioned in the video, just easier and more deliberate.
Also, counterbalance by sticking the knee out on the inside of the turn.
I was out in Colorado this summer doing some great climbs with fun descents. It was my first time out there and all of the roads were new to me. I played it very safe on the descents. I didn't swing out wide since some of the pavement was indistinguishable from the gravel shoulder. Also, I didn't want to hit any surprise gravel patches on the road.
Bat out of hades technique. PR’s.
I crashed descending on the Telegraph 10 years ago. Was very lucky indeed. Took a corner too fast, slid on some loose 'stuff' hidden in the shadows and went over the side wall which fortunately was not proceeded by a drop. Ripped my shorts, grazed my leg, hands and shoulder and tore some bar tape! Other than that just bruised pride for over cooking it. I remember feeling grateful as could have been so much worse. Great tips and advice as always Phil.
Good stuff and very useful👍🏾
Love these technique videos!
She totally deserves a car!
cool she keeps u in check
1:02 - 50 PSI on 28mm tires?
According to SILCA Tire Pressure Calculator it should be around 80 PSI. Or 70 PSI when you are on gravel.
That's quite a divergence!
for descent practice on a 120 lb woman, 55 is fine. Most days I run 80
Excellent video -- thanks, guys! (Although, as a "Boomer," I do ride 23 mm tires at 120 psi -- but, then again, so does God . . .).
if you're not on tubeless/wider tires as is the new trend/tech, that is correct! Every time I pump my bike and have to stop before 90 it feels weird
Great video
Your everesting descents were ripped (if straight).
the 2nd attempt was full speed but had some tight turns, which I think was part of why i fell apart...underestimated the physical and mental toll of driving the bike down that
I could use some gravel descending tips. I presume a lot of the same applies but it’s much more difficult (for me) to judge how much grip there is and how fast is safe. Seems like it’s better to stay on hard packed dirt and avoid taking the same out-in-out style lines.
Yeah tell me about it as the edge of the road is getting closer and closer! Loose gravel is a nightmare, and I am still practicing. So far what has seemed to help is to try to corner like a mountain biker. ( a dropper would be great) . So out of saddle, tilt the bike under you ( in the direction of corner) … like trying to engage your side knobs, then counter-steer to initiate, ride the front wheel maybe (more weight to the front if possible). Of course mountain bikes have like 65 deg head angle so … I don’t know.. practice…. Maybe two wheel slide until you’re off the loose stuff hopefully more firm on the road edge?
I think Im not Tom Pidcock, but I gotta check my ID first
you just never know honestly
Check your bank account
Chick kinda cute.