Adding clarity here that this is for the Intel vs. AMD version of the same computer. Before some PC fanboys (the most pathetic kind) say this is about the Mac Mini instead.
7945HX is 1000 points slower single core in geekbench and only 1200 points higher multicore than base 10 Core Mac Mini M4 which has only 4 P cores and 6 E cores which is pretty poor considering this is a 16 core 32 thread chip. Not sure why the Mac Mini is "dead" compared to a slower machine.
@@ArcticFox63It's typical youtube titles, though it was explained that it's roughly equivalent in price to the mac mini whilst not having extortion level pricing for upgrades to the ssd and ram.
As a canadian I would advise against buying minisforum on their website. They charged me hst. 15% and you know full well they didn't submit that to the canadian government, they're in china! When my v3 tablet that I paid hst on shipped with dhl, I had to pay an additional $70. Customs and hst on the declared value of around $200. I have the declaration form in my email clearing showing they never paid hst despite me giving them around $250 in hst. Shady. To make matters worse, my v3 was deffective. The screen failed after a few days, and I had to pay shipping from east coast to west coast of canada, then wait nearly 2 months for a replacement, that I had to pay more customs and tax on.
It may be worth contacting their support about the double taxation. I believe there is some sort of process but I'm not 100% sure. When I ordered my minisforum I didn't see any issues with massive double taxation on import other than the ripoff fee DHL charges for processing; might be worth checking your receipt from them for the exact tax to fee breakdown, mine was something huge like 8:1 fee to tax. As for the defective unit that definitely sucks and I have heard that their support is slow when it works and communication can take some work. Hopefully though you'll be able to sort out the large double taxation situation
Double taxation happens sometimes cuz international shipping is hard. Encountered this in Finland with a few vendors as well, and in all cases they've been able to refund me when contacted, so I'd recommend trying that
wait til he finds out that minisforum never releases any firmware/bios updates past the first few months...enjoy your abandoned product riddled with bugs and vulnerabilities.
3:30 To be honest: I love the fact that it is specifically *not* liquid metal. For a device that I am going to use and maybe lug around a couple times for years to come, it is just an additional high risk point of failure that is frankly unnecessary
I'm so annoyed I bought into synology like the last year they were still cool in 2020 with a 920+. Every year after I just keep getting more news about how much worse they're getting now and it's sad. If I had the money I would replace it but I'm probably going to just keep using it till it gives out at the moment. Those Ugreen NAS's look pretty good though.
@@tf5pZ9H5vcAdBpThey always drop super immediately, there is no support to contact if you have problems and their hardware is prone to failure. All I can say is good luck.
yeah but a bit like Ubiquiti, it just seems to be a company Jake personally is obsessed with and brings that personal obsession into LMG content (editorially it's not great)
12:58 I think text slipped through QA a few times on this video. No one refers to USB4 as Type-C Gen 4 (and kind of compounds the silly USB naming if we start making new ways to refer to USB). Remember what you were taught at school: Gen # comes AFTER a USB 3.x only:p
Let's be real, someone is going to use the N5 as a Steam box with Steam OS for their bedroom, bathroom, or some other space due to the storage space for all of their library.
It's really compelling if you want a high end cpu with good power consumption. The price is also fairly reasonable, given how expensive those modern cpus are.
@@woedendstewadpier4922 u.2 often comes with enterprise level models, they have significant more durability (such as more PBW or TBW or DWPD) and they usually sells at cheaper price per TB storage space than tradidtional consumer grade m.2 ssd
@@woedendstewadpier4922 it is true. U.2 connector is basically SAS on one side, and PCIE x4 on the other, being fully backwards compatible with both sata and SAS would be great for some cheap sata 2.5" ssds, and after some time you'll be able to swap them for used server-grade u.2 SSDs
I believe he said "Now this is a very competitive space. You can get two, three, four, maybe even five-bay NAS units in the realm of two/three/four-hundred bucks US."
Look up NAS (network-attached storage). Be mindful that the cheaper options usually come with rather slow SoCs that are good for storing data but not much else (streaming high quality videos, fast transfers, local AI, running intensive apps, etc.) while also having pre-installed (often proprietary) OSes that are hard/impossible to replace and have limited app support. Nevertheless, if you only plan to store data and eventually host a plex server that only gets accessed by one device at a time, then the cheaper stuff is most definitely the way to go.
If you're willing to buy from Newegg, you can get a 4 bay Terramaster or Synology NAS for around $200. That will not include the drives, which you'll have to provide yourself. You may also have to upgrade the RAM yourself. But it's an alright starting price.
That model's GPU is only fro driving displays. It cannot do any 3D or acceleration besides video whatsoever. The laptop ones, with the 680m and such are very powerful in comparison. These assume that you'll be using a dedicated GPU or won't be doing GPU stuff.
Yeah, thats why this comparison towards the M4 stinks. If you have to put in a A2000 card to beat the M4, you´re way over the price. This comparison is raw cpu performance only, nothing else. If you do the slightest gpu demanding work, like video/photo editing or even just media server stuff, the M4 would be the better option. I honestly dont know which group is targeted with the Minisforum machines.
Yeah this computer is really cool, but there’s no reason to compare them other than to get people to click (and for people like you and I to comment). There’s nothing about this computer and the Mac Mini that are similar except that they’re both “small”. Of course this computer is three times the size of the Mac Mini, especially if you include the external power brick this computer has. The number of people that would have bought a Mac Mini, but instead are going to buy this is probably in the single digits.
"Btw, the use cases between the Man Mini and a SFF PC rarely overlap" - I can't say I really agree with this statement. I'm a PC guy, but I'm considering getting a Mac Mini. Both PC and Mac can be used for general purpose computing, game development, video production, audio production, etc. While gaming and some business software are still PC-centric, I can't think of many use cases in which one would be preferable (or exclusive) to either PC or Mac. Can you provide some examples? To be clear, I fully agree that the title and the premise of the video were done exclusively for clicks and not with any genuine comparison in mind (especially since he didn't mention the difference in power draw, fan noise, features, etc).
@@nomore6167 General use computers like a generic PC or Mac Mini, do have lots of overlap, you're correct. They both compete at ability to run any kind of software for any kinda purpose. This video, however, is about the minisforum new release. It is not a general purpose computer meant for edge use or user interactive desktop. While it can be used this way, it's not optimized for that. It's optimized to sit in a dark closet and do computations really really fast. In other words, it is mediocre or sucks at: audio workstation video workstation gaming/GPU tasks It's optimized for: server use, networking, non-user non-client processing (tasks, algorithms, server management/communications, storage, organizational stuff etc.) It's the perfect computer to throw 100 of them in the racks and start a spam-bot farm, in other words.
@@Äpple-pie-5k as ut should be. Noone is going to buy mac studio for 3-4x the money if its even close to the same. The type of M4 ultra they will put in the studio should wipe the floor with the mini.
7:14 comes with a gpu too? Or gotta buy and add it manually? Cause that changes things. Anyone has any idea about a mini pc vs mini mac ? Especially the price bump of a gpu
Ya but the built in GPU will drive a monitor and that is about it. Forget about anything that is even a little graphically intense like video editing or gaming! I too would like to know how much it costs to get an M4 equivalent GPU in there. Then it would be a more level comparison. I have a feeling a good GPU will raise the price significantly!
If the graphics processing performance is an important part in your small form factor computer at $500--1500 price range, and it's not solely because you want to play the newest games as they come out, then the M4 and M4Pro Mac Mini are very hard to beat.
Absolutely prefer it not to be for a desktop device. If it fails Apple will charge you as much as the device costs to fix it. If it does on this you buy another and ur good
He passed over this like it's a minor issue. Excuse me, 10 gigaBITS per second is trash especially because a significant percentage of those are infrastructural parity bits and not your real data. To put it in perspective it's about 900MB/s and we don't even need to talk about future-proof. It's not even now-proof.
actually it's AMD's plan. they integrated USB4 to 7040 series, but not on 7050 series, as 7945HX is a unique mobile CPU, essentially a rebranded desktop 7950X.
And said Mac mini in benchmarks on the base model is only a thousand to 3 thousand off in multicore performance, being like less than 10 percent faster to like 20 percent faster at the best, looking at geekbench benches and the average of highs and lows.
@ you don’t need a 50 series (fucking 30 and 20 series do this fine and 40 series has AV1), and a AMD card can do video encoding just fine, it’s other more compute related problems that screw those cards over, also said Mac mini can yeah ofc obviously do video encoding out of the box very well, but that’s obvious
Yeah pick your preferred KPIs a little more specific to favor a Mac. I have a Mac mini and a Minis Forum and I both like them for specifically the purpose I bought them for. Not sure why people feel the need to cope this much on both sides
@@Maxrast5 i guess if you need 16 Cores you don’t need a Mini PC. I don’t want to know how this screams with 85E sustained CPU Power draw and this fan…
@@Mooooov0815 no I basically do Mini PC testing for a living and the Mac Mini killed them all at once. There is no competition for the consumer market and I don’t see where someone would want a 16 Core CPU in a Mini PC even at professional levels. You would need more then just Multicore performance to let it make sense. And thats basically the only thing this is good at.
no bueno for video editing on this one unless you get an intel graphics card, or one of the nvidia 5000 series which doesnt look like its going to fit. amd really needs to support hevc 4:2:2 10bit decoding like intel quicksync or recently supported on the nvidia 5000 series cards. otherwise scrubbing through timelines for editing is just stuttering and lagging unless you use proxies.
@@matt5721 Which is useable for driving a monior and thats it. For anything else, like media server, creative work etc. you´ll have to upgrade to a dedicated GPU. Thats why the comparison between this and the Mini M4 is stupid.
Don't ask questions what they quetly avoided, because than others will find out it's not just morr expensive, it's have crappy GPU, use more power and because of the high power consumption the cooler also loud as hell..
In my experience it varies with Minisforum. Some models are reasonably quiet, some you really notice when a small fan suddenly spins up. For quiet stuff I'd recommend a fanless Intel N100 mini pc, M4 Mac mini, or M4Pro mini depending on your performance needs. If you want a gaming PC you kinda have to live with some noise even with a big case and quiet cooling solution. Rich person option would be to put a desktop in a room where residents or guests never go and run the wires through the wall for the monitor and input devices.
Any powerful mini-pc is loud. Laptop coolers are not up the task of cooling desktop level CPUs. I’ve went through four of them before building a mini-its system that’s quiet and upgradable.
The big difference here is Longevity. You're gonna have that M4 Mac Mini for 10 years and I have had TWO minisforum PCs slowdown and eventually fail on me within 2 years of owning them.
I have to say, while I don’t keep current on every video, when I saw how good Jake is looking lately I was really happy for him. Congrats on the hard work Jake!
I love the idea of a NAS where you can just swap out the core. I have a collection of old NAS' from upgrades over the years but like the case remains fairly identical through each generation because sata power and data connectors have been standardized. Although I'm not sure how viable that is in the long run because a NAS 'job is just to sit there and serve files and make sure nothing breaks.
@@Rakku A lot of people use this as mini-servers, in my case I want 3 of them to make a proxmox cluster for my company. As a workstation I don't see the point either, just buy a laptop. And as a mini-pc there's probably better options for normal uses, even in the minisforum brand.
Memory bandwidth, GPU, NPU, on-chip decoders, drive I/O, external port speed, etc., are benchmarks that Apple kills this PC on, leaving it a hobbled amputated hobbit moaning on the floor for mommy. Simply put, it's not a fair comparison. This PC is not meant to compete in general all-purpose computing. Its best use cases are home server, dev servers for testing before releasing to production servers, and stuff like that. I see this as a nice machine to put Linux on and use as a server, NOT anything a consumer, professional, or prosumer would put on their work desk.
The vast, VAST majority of use cases for small form factor PCs like this have absolutely no need for anything more than 1gbe. Like less than 0.1% of customers for this type of product need anything more than like 100mbps.
If I had to use the best hardware with mediocre software, I would just not use it. If I had the best software with mediocre hardware, I would love it. People always seem to forget about the “User” part of a GUI.
You got me excited and then I remembered that it doesn't have unified memory, so only useful for games. The studio with 64Gb is my AI workhorse at the moment.
I’ve been running an entire (K8) server cluster on the MS-01 for half a year now and that thing is already a monster. Even the iGPU is fast enough for local LLMs.
Yes, you can beat the Mac Mini performance in small form factor by spending more money and consuming 5x the power? I don't believe the displayed configuration starts at $700.
@@brulsmurf most people in the budget for a Mac mini aren’t buying exorbitant upgrades or even ram upgrades. Yeah I bet the ram upgrades are cheaper but at a certain point once you’re computing needs grow they’re no longer in the market for a Mac mini and they might be building a custom PC or getting a Mac mini Pro depending upon the workflow and personal preference.
Also in GPU demanding workload, it will underperform the Mac mini and require a dedicated GPU to meet performance metrics. They’re barely competing with each other and frankly, if you get to the point where this is a better product you’re within shooting distance of an ITX build.
@@brulsmurfThunderbolt NVME enclosures exist, as do external hard drives, NAS devices and cloud storage platforms. It sucks that they charge so much for larger hard drives but you have to be really lazy to pay them for it over your other options.
2 points from an ms-01 owner. Intel sfp might be stable, but it is either 1g or 10g. So in order to connect a 2.5g gpon, I have to go through a switch that accepts 1, 2.5, 5 and 10g sfp modules. Another point is that if like me, you have this box within the same room with you, you don't want it to be more power hungry. It is already too loud. As a side note, on ms-01 the type c ports are audio/video out. Not so sure about amd version. For me it is almost perfect proxmox box to run a router, nas, some controller and Kodi virtual machines sitting just below the TV.
I'd very much like the two U.2 SSD version - used enterprise drives off ebay perform amazingly well and are cheaper than equivalent storage consumer drives! 4TB enterprise perf for like $170!
The 4060 laptop is basically a desktop 4060 with ever so slightly slower vram (16gbps vs 17gbps), provided it has a tdp of 115w and not lower. That's unlike the rest of the rtx line-up, where the 4070 is basically a slightly faster 4060, the 4080 is a 4070 and the 4090 is a 4080.
@@lopwidth7343 The facts are that by the time it's time to upgrade storage, most users are just upgrading the whole machine anyway. Buy 25%-50% more storage than you think you need and call it a day, OR just upgrade the whole machine like you'll probably do anyway.
@@AltonV Generally the "best available" business/consumer software package for a certain task, is far better on Windows and Mac, than on Linux. The exception is if you're a software developer, where Linux is not only a viable alternative, but every day you use it, you're building skills in the OS that 96% of all servers are running on. Disclaimer: I don't get all tribal over one OS or the other. The comparison chart on them makes them each best in certain niches. Better to be a both/and thinker than an either/or thinker.
@@Äpple-pie-5k it’s honestly this for me I’ve been doing a lot of photo editing recently , and with apple silicone’s admittedly impressive performance, and also impressive emulation and Rosetta and developers porting software and growing game compatibility; yes while upping storage and ram is expensive you still end up paying an arm and a leg upgrading SSDs I think on my current PC I’ve spent close to 6K USD over time, and it’s still running an 11th gen i7, and 3080. With how much components cost. I might as well spend a small amount extra and buy a Mac. I’ll equally be dealing with compatibility issues regardless. However getting a Mac seems to be the most frictionless for my workflows. I’ve messed with Linux before, and that’s probably what will end up happening to my current system. But as I get older I just need my tech to work for me, I’m tired of working for my computer.
@@AltonV Because you don't need to. GPU that pwns this one is included FREE, and you can throw in a 2TB SSD running FOUR TIMES FASTER transfer speeds on the outside, and still be using 1/6 the space of the minisforum PC EVEN IF IT HAD NO POWERBRICK. But I think for the price of that GPU upgrade on the minisforum, the Mac user might as well take that money and bump up the stock internal SSD _before_ he buys it, then call it a day having a 5x5 inch box that PWNS the minisforum in almost every benchmark: memory bandwidth, NPU, single core, drive I/O, external port speeds, etc., and so on, and so forth.
While I do understand and agree with you, there is a healthy market for this. I will state I own a few MS01s for small workstations and servers, my only complaint is the lack of ability to fit a 2-slot full height PCIe GPU. There just isn’t a healthy enough selection of single slot half height cards right now in the states.
The (small) form factor is the main selling point. Did you notice the company name? So no, comparing it to a larger machine is not an apples to apples comparison.
@@firstspar Plex Server, Unraid Server, 3D CAD Workstation at least for my uses. I have used Proxmox on them and it does amazing, the processing power vs the power requirement is punching WELL above it's weight class in terms of features for small homelab nodes.
It's an appliance not an art piece. Power bricks are such a dunk to Apple stans until you mention the iMac Ethernet+power brick, which is just an irredeemable sin unto God. Then it was smart to make a stationary object as lithe as possible
For the Mac mini you need an SSD case etc. Which is way worse xD . In the end, it is not a notebook. You usually don't travel with it - both are small enough for everything
The last system you looked at; the "NAS" seems more like a little workstation to me. Tons of available storage space, fast CPU, upgradable memory, ability's to have a GPU.... that would be one hardcore NAS unit.... but seems like it would work better as an editing rig or something similar that can use a lot of storage space.
Only reason I’m using 4 mac mins in my rack is because of the integrated power supply and having them all uniform size up until the new one I have a 2012 Mac mini to a M1 Mac mini all rack mounted and I use this for production and events just wish other manufacturers integrated their power supplies into the form factor
@@matt5721 the difference is 99% of rackmount PCs will take up a whole u by itself and deeper than a Mac mini would be if you look up Mac mini rack mounted you can fit two of them in a single u in very short depth you can also rackmount mini pcs, but the power supplies are not integrated, which just means it’s taking up space somewhere else.
@@Fran-kc2gu it’s probably a use case that you don’t have to deal with but I have to take my equipment with me to every job. I have 4 Mac mini‘s and HDMI switcher, HDMI matrix,UPS,extenders multiple other pieces of A/V equipment all in a 10u road case
I bought a minis forum that came without Windows OS. I bought it new from MicroCenter. I reached out to support and they said they wouldn’t honor any service because I didn’t buy through an authorized reseller. Returned it for the M4 Mac mini. Guess who doesn’t ship their shit without an activated OS?
My primary concern is how few watts can this NAS consume if fully populated and drives in standby. This will be the typical state fort my NAS and sad it is running 24/7, that number must be low. 20 Watts+ is too high.
Apple - it just works. All squeezed beautifully to a well rounded product This - is just broke. Gathered hardware from all across to try compete with apple’s pricing😂
Except that the power consumption is atrocious and double than M4 under full load, not to mention the idle wattage of M4, Mac Mini has Thunderbolt 4 and 5 which maxes at 80 Gbps while this supports only 10 Gbps, my 7-years old laptop has the same USB specs.
To me it doesn't matter how many more watts they can put into these little machines. Efficiency is way more impressive than raw performance, especially with this form factor.
@@kristofsomers2020 Maybe but what about the extra GPU cost + very limited options? Not only that but china shipping + customs? Is the warranty realiable?
Plus you're stuck with Windows 11. Nobody really wants Windows 11. It was the thing that Microsoft used to finally drive me away after decades on PC only.
It’s not even a comparison this is still piece of crap. Mac mini is still the best for the price and the energy it consumes for the performance it delivers.
85W just for the processor... just 4x times more the mac mini uses for total consumption. I would love to see this little sauna under full workload for an hour hauauh
I get it started on heavy workload a few minutes before clocking into work. Because the loud fan makes a nice soothing "white noise" effect for me to calm my nerves. Mac mini is inaudible and doesn't have this feature.
“Add a GPU,” “Not really Thunderbolt,” “100 watts?” “We need more power!” “I’m giving it all she’s got, Captain. 100 watts!” Can you do a head-to-head with a comparable M4 system? Then, also, with various models up to M4 Pro, Max, Ultra? Will there be Intel chips to compare with what the M4 Ultra will be?
Minisforum is the brand that made me leave Apple's Mac world for Linux. I wanted a desktop, but the Mac Mini was too expensive for bad specifications and I'm a student, so I'm tight on the budget. I'll be forever grateful for how good their mini-PCs are despite the low price.
Dang just managed to take a home a MS-01 I bought a year ago at work with my training budget to replace my home server. Feels bad to see a version that’s twice as fast now 😂
What's the idle/load draw? Mac Mini: * teeheehee * Seriously holy f-balls can we not get away from this power insanity? Put the AMD crew onto making insane RISC er sorry I mean ARM architecture chips with practically zero idle draw and "what's that tingling sensation" load draw so we can all get on with our lives by powering our cars instead. THAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANKS.
Fake reviewing these prototypes dressed as consumer ready devices is pretty wild. I hope people realize this is just a halfway model to help subsidize development costs. The issue is as viewers we legitimately cannot tell where the ad dollars and shillouts end and the genuine enthusiasm for product stacks begins. That really takes the wind out of the sails for this video, because I enjoy several of the personalities featured on LMG vids.
No, that's the correct way to do it. What the fuck does a NAS need SFP+ for? It's ludicrously expensive, holds no advantage in speeds or latency when it comes to sending content over a network or transcoding video, and requires a specialized firmware all on its own. But if you're doing cluster compute on a bunch of mini-PCs? SFP+ is PERFECT.
@@spdcrzy SFP+'s are more power efficient and are more used on servers. A NAS is a file server. Required specialized firmware? WTF are you talking about?
@@icebalm it's a consumer NAS. What makes you think a consumer NAS needs SFP+? Not many people have an SFP+ network switch in their home - even among those who are building a barebones NAS. A mini workstation product is a whole different scenario. The new hottest thing in computing is networked small form factor PCs - Macs and PCs alike. And the Mac Mini is a beast at AI training in all respects - size, price, performance, power consumption. This competes directly with it, and does a brilliant job because whereas the Mac Mini is Thunderbolt and 10Gig only, this has potential for much more.
Awesome. Been waiting for Minisforum to make a NAS SFF PC. Right now we're stuck with QNAP, Synology, Asustor with Celeron or AooStar with 5825U. I'll already in line to get the Minisforum 370 HX NAS SFF PC.
Go to dbrand.com/ghost to get your Ghost Case 2.0! For a limited time, get $10 off, no coupon required
50$ for a case with a 10$ discount is crazy, not even including shipping
You're at minisforum jake, talk about the NAS. TALK ABOUT THE NAS. wait this probably happened hours ago. GO BACK AND TALK ABOUT THE NAS.
@@OanKnight But he did
@@SirCamWA Sorry. I was excited and had only just started the video when I posted.
no
20% more power draw for almost twice the performance is pretty impressive.
Adding clarity here that this is for the Intel vs. AMD version of the same computer. Before some PC fanboys (the most pathetic kind) say this is about the Mac Mini instead.
7945HX is 1000 points slower single core in geekbench and only 1200 points higher multicore than base 10 Core Mac Mini M4 which has only 4 P cores and 6 E cores which is pretty poor considering this is a 16 core 32 thread chip.
Not sure why the Mac Mini is "dead" compared to a slower machine.
@@ArcticFox63It's typical youtube titles, though it was explained that it's roughly equivalent in price to the mac mini whilst not having extortion level pricing for upgrades to the ssd and ram.
@@leonro True, it does have the edge in upgradeability and flexibility it depends what you want in a machine.
@@ArcticFox63 Plus, x86_64, free from OS installation and compatibility issues. arm64(Apple), even does not fully support Linux
I can’t believe they put the power button on the front 😂
Yeah WTF is wrong with them? They should have put it on the bottom like a normal person.
@@thelbtlover Yeah the power plug should have been on the bottom side too
tsk tsk clearly bad design. It's too functional!
@@thelbtlover he's just trolling apple
Who does that? It's like they never even bothered to ask a UX expert!
As a canadian I would advise against buying minisforum on their website. They charged me hst. 15% and you know full well they didn't submit that to the canadian government, they're in china! When my v3 tablet that I paid hst on shipped with dhl, I had to pay an additional $70. Customs and hst on the declared value of around $200. I have the declaration form in my email clearing showing they never paid hst despite me giving them around $250 in hst. Shady. To make matters worse, my v3 was deffective. The screen failed after a few days, and I had to pay shipping from east coast to west coast of canada, then wait nearly 2 months for a replacement, that I had to pay more customs and tax on.
Thanks for the warning
Remember that "It's coming from asus so it's gonna be good" from Jake ?
Minisforum is a German company...
It may be worth contacting their support about the double taxation. I believe there is some sort of process but I'm not 100% sure. When I ordered my minisforum I didn't see any issues with massive double taxation on import other than the ripoff fee DHL charges for processing; might be worth checking your receipt from them for the exact tax to fee breakdown, mine was something huge like 8:1 fee to tax. As for the defective unit that definitely sucks and I have heard that their support is slow when it works and communication can take some work. Hopefully though you'll be able to sort out the large double taxation situation
Double taxation happens sometimes cuz international shipping is hard. Encountered this in Finland with a few vendors as well, and in all cases they've been able to refund me when contacted, so I'd recommend trying that
"It probably overheats, but still pretty cool" - Jake 2025
Like the earth!
Like all things minisforum. Great prices and performance but holy hell does all their stuff push the limits on heat
wait til he finds out that minisforum never releases any firmware/bios updates past the first few months...enjoy your abandoned product riddled with bugs and vulnerabilities.
3:30 To be honest: I love the fact that it is specifically *not* liquid metal. For a device that I am going to use and maybe lug around a couple times for years to come, it is just an additional high risk point of failure that is frankly unnecessary
Are you usually dishonest?
@mavfan1 At least we are getting the honesty here right?
skill issue
@@fayenotfaye I second this, skill issue for sure.
I literally just saw the subreddit post with Jake sitting at the Minisforum booth. lol
Wow, that's CRAZY dude!
Shilling
That last bit, Synology needs to get real nervous.
Synology has abandoned the consumer segment pretty much. Their older consumer stuff is still up but software and support going down the tubes.
Yeahhhh that's a fucking MONSTER of a system. Having a GPU for transcoding is the killer app here, especially for the price.
Dumped synology last year after almost 2 decades of being a user. Overpriced proprietary nonsense. Garbage company
@@moogs same. DS412+ to RS1619XS+ and now ditching entirely and built my own w/proxmox and truenas VM. Never lookin back.
I'm so annoyed I bought into synology like the last year they were still cool in 2020 with a 920+. Every year after I just keep getting more news about how much worse they're getting now and it's sad. If I had the money I would replace it but I'm probably going to just keep using it till it gives out at the moment. Those Ugreen NAS's look pretty good though.
One month from now: This thing I just told you is great is dead to me
Oh, and they have already stopped supporting the hardware….
I've got an UM890 coming in the mail in a few days, should I not have bought it? Specs seem perfect.
@@tf5pZ9H5vcAdBpThey always drop super immediately, there is no support to contact if you have problems and their hardware is prone to failure. All I can say is good luck.
Welcome to tech?
Wdym AMD = no USB4? AMD doesnt have thunderbolt, not usb4
usb 4 = 40gbps but it 10gbps so it not
but i think they just reuse the case so intel version or another model gonna have usb 4 for sure
@@MrFluke039Not sure if that was a minisforum decision or if it is a limitation of the chip.
@@FrIoSrHy i mean nas pc is also amd and has usb 4
@@MrFluke039 i didn't mean that, I just meant that having an amd chip doesn't mean you don't get usb4 (maybe with this particular chip you don't, idk)
Can’t believe they made a video about this company, they have absolutely terrible customer service and reliability issues.
yeah but a bit like Ubiquiti, it just seems to be a company Jake personally is obsessed with and brings that personal obsession into LMG content (editorially it's not great)
$...
If you get a good system it is an awesome experience… if you don’t get a good system things become miserable quickly.
@@LiquidWolf you said it. My UM890 is garbage.
Because ultimately their stuff is good and interesting. But yeah i regret ordering on their site instead of amazon 😑 shit took ages
12:58 I think text slipped through QA a few times on this video. No one refers to USB4 as Type-C Gen 4 (and kind of compounds the silly USB naming if we start making new ways to refer to USB). Remember what you were taught at school: Gen # comes AFTER a USB 3.x only:p
Let's be real, someone is going to use the N5 as a Steam box with Steam OS for their bedroom, bathroom, or some other space due to the storage space for all of their library.
That Nas is pretty insane
It's really compelling if you want a high end cpu with good power consumption. The price is also fairly reasonable, given how expensive those modern cpus are.
I paid more for my well upgraded 4 bay QNAP chassis 4 years back. But its CPU is still not good for decent VM performance.
wow LTT finally noticed the homelab mini PCs, more than a year later
Yes please, double u.2 interface would be awesome!
Or, if possible, give us the option to connect EDSFF drives!
Why exactly is u.2 better than m.2 in this case? I don't know much about it, but I read that it has the same performance? Is that true?
@@woedendstewadpier4922 u.2 often comes with enterprise level models, they have significant more durability (such as more PBW or TBW or DWPD) and they usually sells at cheaper price per TB storage space than tradidtional consumer grade m.2 ssd
@@woedendstewadpier4922 it is true. U.2 connector is basically SAS on one side, and PCIE x4 on the other, being fully backwards compatible with both sata and SAS would be great for some cheap sata 2.5" ssds, and after some time you'll be able to swap them for used server-grade u.2 SSDs
Dual U.2 would be awesome! If you use a PCie card adapter to add a second U.2, can you boot off it? Thinking mirrored U.2 for boot
@@_Jonny_ E3.S u meant
Minipc has sfp+ ports but the nas doesn't? lolwtf
Different target audience perhaps? But agreed since sfp+ is more versatile.
Yes, please loose the 5Gbps RJ45 copper connector and replace it with a SFP+ port!
@@hruettimann Although it must be said, 5Gb ethernet is cool.
do gamers need it ?
@ No, only if the pc is used as a router or nas with fast drives
16:31 He says you can get things like this for ~$300. What are these called? What do I google for?
I believe he said "Now this is a very competitive space. You can get two, three, four, maybe even five-bay NAS units in the realm of two/three/four-hundred bucks US."
In case UA-cam nuked my other comment with proper explanation -- those are called Network attached storage (NAS).
Look up NAS (network-attached storage). Be mindful that the cheaper options usually come with rather slow SoCs that are good for storing data but not much else (streaming high quality videos, fast transfers, local AI, running intensive apps, etc.) while also having pre-installed (often proprietary) OSes that are hard/impossible to replace and have limited app support.
Nevertheless, if you only plan to store data and eventually host a plex server that only gets accessed by one device at a time, then the cheaper stuff is most definitely the way to go.
QNAP TS-233, Asustor Drivestor 2 and Synology DiskStation DS223j would be examples of popular NAS devices by big manufacturers.
If you're willing to buy from Newegg, you can get a 4 bay Terramaster or Synology NAS for around $200. That will not include the drives, which you'll have to provide yourself. You may also have to upgrade the RAM yourself. But it's an alright starting price.
My brain:
Powered by SteamOS
Mine: powered by Fedora Linux 😊
With an overheating GPU? Nah, bro I pass.
arch btw
What is the stock GPU performance vs the Mac Mini ?
7945 HX’s IGPU is dogwater compared to an m4. you can look up comparisons
Oh you, asking questions about things strangely omitted from the video...
That model's GPU is only fro driving displays. It cannot do any 3D or acceleration besides video whatsoever. The laptop ones, with the 680m and such are very powerful in comparison. These assume that you'll be using a dedicated GPU or won't be doing GPU stuff.
@@LtdJorge So comparing prices is kinda nonsense then, right?
Yeah, thats why this comparison towards the M4 stinks. If you have to put in a A2000 card to beat the M4, you´re way over the price.
This comparison is raw cpu performance only, nothing else. If you do the slightest gpu demanding work, like video/photo editing or even just media server stuff, the M4 would be the better option. I honestly dont know which group is targeted with the Minisforum machines.
I can verify the new ghost case has much better magnets and while a little chunkier its a really damn good case
Btw, the use cases between the Mac Mini and a SFF PC rarely overlap. I don't understand the reason to compare them other than for clicks.
That's all there was to understand, and you succeeded.
Yeah this computer is really cool, but there’s no reason to compare them other than to get people to click (and for people like you and I to comment). There’s nothing about this computer and the Mac Mini that are similar except that they’re both “small”. Of course this computer is three times the size of the Mac Mini, especially if you include the external power brick this computer has. The number of people that would have bought a Mac Mini, but instead are going to buy this is probably in the single digits.
"Btw, the use cases between the Man Mini and a SFF PC rarely overlap" - I can't say I really agree with this statement. I'm a PC guy, but I'm considering getting a Mac Mini. Both PC and Mac can be used for general purpose computing, game development, video production, audio production, etc. While gaming and some business software are still PC-centric, I can't think of many use cases in which one would be preferable (or exclusive) to either PC or Mac. Can you provide some examples? To be clear, I fully agree that the title and the premise of the video were done exclusively for clicks and not with any genuine comparison in mind (especially since he didn't mention the difference in power draw, fan noise, features, etc).
@@nomore6167 General use computers like a generic PC or Mac Mini, do have lots of overlap, you're correct. They both compete at ability to run any kind of software for any kinda purpose.
This video, however, is about the minisforum new release. It is not a general purpose computer meant for edge use or user interactive desktop. While it can be used this way, it's not optimized for that. It's optimized to sit in a dark closet and do computations really really fast. In other words, it is mediocre or sucks at:
audio workstation
video workstation
gaming/GPU tasks
It's optimized for:
server use, networking, non-user non-client processing (tasks, algorithms, server management/communications, storage, organizational stuff etc.)
It's the perfect computer to throw 100 of them in the racks and start a spam-bot farm, in other words.
ski
why should LTT care about user case scenarios ?
Okay so Jake NEEDS to compare this in the Studio with an M4 Mac Mini when these become available
While I totally agree. That's not going to happen. Side-by-side comparison is not going to look pretty AT ALL.
@@Äpple-pie-5k as ut should be. Noone is going to buy mac studio for 3-4x the money if its even close to the same. The type of M4 ultra they will put in the studio should wipe the floor with the mini.
7:14 comes with a gpu too? Or gotta buy and add it manually? Cause that changes things. Anyone has any idea about a mini pc vs mini mac ? Especially the price bump of a gpu
The AMD CPU includes a GPU and npu.
Ya but the built in GPU will drive a monitor and that is about it. Forget about anything that is even a little graphically intense like video editing or gaming! I too would like to know how much it costs to get an M4 equivalent GPU in there. Then it would be a more level comparison. I have a feeling a good GPU will raise the price significantly!
@@robotmustache1987you would have to buy a LP 3050
@ronmaximilian6953 but even the video said the iGPU is sh*t, so you need to buy a dedicated GPU if you want anything GPU related things..
If the graphics processing performance is an important part in your small form factor computer at $500--1500 price range, and it's not solely because you want to play the newest games as they come out, then the M4 and M4Pro Mac Mini are very hard to beat.
Ghost case 2 arrived recently and it’s genuinely impressive looking.
I notice you didn't show the power brick. The Mac Minis is built in!
Which was an awful decision. Why include USB A when you can eliminate a problem no one ever had!?
@@matt5721bot, reported
Who cares. More reliability that PSU isn't integrated on mobo.
Absolutely prefer it not to be for a desktop device. If it fails Apple will charge you as much as the device costs to fix it. If it does on this you buy another and ur good
@@Malc180s immature child, reported
No USB 4 is a dealbreaker. It’s 2025, people. AMD CPU is no excuse.
He passed over this like it's a minor issue. Excuse me, 10 gigaBITS per second is trash especially because a significant percentage of those are infrastructural parity bits and not your real data. To put it in perspective it's about 900MB/s and we don't even need to talk about future-proof. It's not even now-proof.
actually it's AMD's plan. they integrated USB4 to 7040 series, but not on 7050 series, as 7945HX is a unique mobile CPU, essentially a rebranded desktop 7950X.
But without a GPU and that would make it cost more than the Mac mini.
And said Mac mini in benchmarks on the base model is only a thousand to 3 thousand off in multicore performance, being like less than 10 percent faster to like 20 percent faster at the best, looking at geekbench benches and the average of highs and lows.
Also keep in mind, if you do video editing, you'd either need a NVIDIA RTX50xx series or Intel GPU for proper video en- and decoding.
@ you don’t need a 50 series (fucking 30 and 20 series do this fine and 40 series has AV1), and a AMD card can do video encoding just fine, it’s other more compute related problems that screw those cards over, also said Mac mini can yeah ofc obviously do video encoding out of the box very well, but that’s obvious
@@roundduckkira No 4:2:2 hardware de- and encoding on older NVIDIA GPUs. Working with e.g. Sony FX3 footage is dog slow on these.
@ does older mean even 40 series?
When this comes out, can we have Jake do an in depth guide how to setup a home network storage?
the sfp+ is so cool, but lack of thunderbolt 40g (or is it 20) networking is unfortunate
The intel version has that. AMD can’t use TB4, intel can.
Thanks!
Show me just one with the Single Core Performance, Memory Bandwidth, Power Consumption and Noise of the M4 Mac Mini.
Yeah pick your preferred KPIs a little more specific to favor a Mac.
I have a Mac mini and a Minis Forum and I both like them for specifically the purpose I bought them for. Not sure why people feel the need to cope this much on both sides
if you don't need cpu multicore performance, 64ram or so, (all memory swappable) then you don't need really need this pc
@@Maxrast5 i guess if you need 16 Cores you don’t need a Mini PC. I don’t want to know how this screams with 85E sustained CPU Power draw and this fan…
@@Mooooov0815 no I basically do Mini PC testing for a living and the Mac Mini killed them all at once. There is no competition for the consumer market and I don’t see where someone would want a 16 Core CPU in a Mini PC even at professional levels. You would need more then just Multicore performance to let it make sense. And thats basically the only thing this is good at.
@ and by the way you don’t think the KPIs of this Video aren’t specifically choosen to tell you it kills the mac mini? 🤣🤣🤣
Out of curiosity, what would you use an OCulink connection for on a NAS?
You can put a external GPU, setup proxmox with window, steam os and game on in through the display outputs
@@Fran-kc2gu no one actually does that because pretty much all games with anti cheat will refuse to run in a windows vm
@@bjarne9700 it's a shame that no games without anti cheat exists /s
@@bjarne9700it's like 2 games out of 10000 cry about it
@@Fran-kc2gu its pretty much all multiplayer games. Out of the top 100 games i'd bet most of them include anti cheat preventing u to play on a vm
no bueno for video editing on this one unless you get an intel graphics card, or one of the nvidia 5000 series which doesnt look like its going to fit.
amd really needs to support hevc 4:2:2 10bit decoding like intel quicksync or recently supported on the nvidia 5000 series cards. otherwise scrubbing through timelines for editing is just stuttering and lagging unless you use proxies.
I need this but with ECC. Perfect SmartOS hypervisor host then. Or a much weaker processor to lower the cost and make it into a home router
Get that old-ass Radeon 610M shit outta here bro!
It has a dGPU...
@@matt5721It doesn't, you have to buy it separately.
@@matt5721 Which is useable for driving a monior and thats it. For anything else, like media server, creative work etc. you´ll have to upgrade to a dedicated GPU. Thats why the comparison between this and the Mini M4 is stupid.
How loud does the fan get especially when you start to push the system?
Don't ask questions what they quetly avoided, because than others will find out it's not just morr expensive, it's have crappy GPU, use more power and because of the high power consumption the cooler also loud as hell..
In my experience it varies with Minisforum. Some models are reasonably quiet, some you really notice when a small fan suddenly spins up. For quiet stuff I'd recommend a fanless Intel N100 mini pc, M4 Mac mini, or M4Pro mini depending on your performance needs. If you want a gaming PC you kinda have to live with some noise even with a big case and quiet cooling solution. Rich person option would be to put a desktop in a room where residents or guests never go and run the wires through the wall for the monitor and input devices.
Any powerful mini-pc is loud. Laptop coolers are not up the task of cooling desktop level CPUs. I’ve went through four of them before building a mini-its system that’s quiet and upgradable.
The big difference here is Longevity.
You're gonna have that M4 Mac Mini for 10 years and I have had TWO minisforum PCs slowdown and eventually fail on me within 2 years of owning them.
I have to say, while I don’t keep current on every video, when I saw how good Jake is looking lately I was really happy for him. Congrats on the hard work Jake!
"ive been waiting for this since it was release"... so basically you were not waiting for it lol
He meant since the release of the Intel version
I love the idea of a NAS where you can just swap out the core. I have a collection of old NAS' from upgrades over the years but like the case remains fairly identical through each generation because sata power and data connectors have been standardized.
Although I'm not sure how viable that is in the long run because a NAS 'job is just to sit there and serve files and make sure nothing breaks.
I prefer my computer to be made of quality materials and last with top tier support instead of becoming e-waste in about a year after it breaks.
Repairability is very important to me, what about you?
except for the fact that the ms-1 is 600 points lower in single core than the mac mini m4 lol
I really like the Nas but at a slightly lower price would be a no brainer
Who would need this? The GPU is the issue that kills it for me
I want this for dev machine. I don't need a huge GPU. I want the NAS to run Kubernetes clusters on ;)
@@KangoV So its a extreme niche product then. Because I honestly dont get for whom this is for either.
@@Rakku A lot of people use this as mini-servers, in my case I want 3 of them to make a proxmox cluster for my company. As a workstation I don't see the point either, just buy a laptop. And as a mini-pc there's probably better options for normal uses, even in the minisforum brand.
@@axelruiz5030there's no laptop with these specs and price. If you have display and keeb zero reasons buying laptop.
@@Rakku Just because you don't do home servers, doesn't mean it's niche.
These are so sick. Was genuinely worried nobody would be able to compete with Apple in this space.
I don’t see how this is competition. Caters to a different audience. And no, I don’t want the new Mini either. Waiting for an updated Studio.
Memory bandwidth, GPU, NPU, on-chip decoders, drive I/O, external port speed, etc., are benchmarks that Apple kills this PC on, leaving it a hobbled amputated hobbit moaning on the floor for mommy. Simply put, it's not a fair comparison. This PC is not meant to compete in general all-purpose computing. Its best use cases are home server, dev servers for testing before releasing to production servers, and stuff like that. I see this as a nice machine to put Linux on and use as a server, NOT anything a consumer, professional, or prosumer would put on their work desk.
@@swampscott2670 M4 Studio is going to set the bar at a whole new level. Nice choice. Peons like me will have to settle for M4 Pro.
Oh damn, everyone is raving about Minisforum at CES..
My wallet is worried!
Jake on ShirtCircuit: no way to screw it up
Jake on LTT: we screwed it up
removing 10gbe from the lower end models would be a massive mistake
The vast, VAST majority of use cases for small form factor PCs like this have absolutely no need for anything more than 1gbe. Like less than 0.1% of customers for this type of product need anything more than like 100mbps.
you don't need 10gbe
I'd be fine with 2.5
Please don't remove 10Gb on the Lower end models. Everyone who was looking at the 01 instantly ignored the A1 for this reason.
@@A_Balanced_BreakfastI don’t think you realize how many people buy them for Homelab use.
If I had to use the best hardware with mediocre software, I would just not use it. If I had the best software with mediocre hardware, I would love it.
People always seem to forget about the “User” part of a GUI.
You got me excited and then I remembered that it doesn't have unified memory, so only useful for games. The studio with 64Gb is my AI workhorse at the moment.
I’ve been running an entire (K8) server cluster on the MS-01 for half a year now and that thing is already a monster.
Even the iGPU is fast enough for local LLMs.
Yes, you can beat the Mac Mini performance in small form factor by spending more money and consuming 5x the power?
I don't believe the displayed configuration starts at $700.
The ram and SSD upgrades are 4x cheaper though.
@@brulsmurf most people in the budget for a Mac mini aren’t buying exorbitant upgrades or even ram upgrades. Yeah I bet the ram upgrades are cheaper but at a certain point once you’re computing needs grow they’re no longer in the market for a Mac mini and they might be building a custom PC or getting a Mac mini Pro depending upon the workflow and personal preference.
Also in GPU demanding workload, it will underperform the Mac mini and require a dedicated GPU to meet performance metrics. They’re barely competing with each other and frankly, if you get to the point where this is a better product you’re within shooting distance of an ITX build.
@@rudysmith1552 If a 256GB SSD s enough, you probably better of with a mini pc half the price of a m4 mini.
@@brulsmurfThunderbolt NVME enclosures exist, as do external hard drives, NAS devices and cloud storage platforms. It sucks that they charge so much for larger hard drives but you have to be really lazy to pay them for it over your other options.
2 points from an ms-01 owner.
Intel sfp might be stable, but it is either 1g or 10g. So in order to connect a 2.5g gpon, I have to go through a switch that accepts 1, 2.5, 5 and 10g sfp modules.
Another point is that if like me, you have this box within the same room with you, you don't want it to be more power hungry. It is already too loud.
As a side note, on ms-01 the type c ports are audio/video out. Not so sure about amd version.
For me it is almost perfect proxmox box to run a router, nas, some controller and Kodi virtual machines sitting just below the TV.
I stopped at “no USB4”…they chose poorly.
AMD makes chipsets with USB 4. Mac and Intel both have Thunderbolt.
The closer you look, the more wrinkles you find…
It has a dedicated GPU, what possible use case is there for 40gbps USB?
That specific CPU supposedly doesn't work with USB 4. It's weird, but the internal PCIe slot is arguably more useful.
@@matt5721Fast SSD transfer speeds, docks, etc.
Why in the world do they have the previous version of Cinebench installed? That doesn’t really help much
I'd very much like the two U.2 SSD version - used enterprise drives off ebay perform amazingly well and are cheaper than equivalent storage consumer drives! 4TB enterprise perf for like $170!
The NAS is peak banger, if I had not just recently rebuild my strong truenas I would absolutely have gone for that
Bro those 4060 laptop GPUs for desktop need a review. That's wild.
The 4060 laptop is basically a desktop 4060 with ever so slightly slower vram (16gbps vs 17gbps), provided it has a tdp of 115w and not lower. That's unlike the rest of the rtx line-up, where the 4070 is basically a slightly faster 4060, the 4080 is a 4070 and the 4090 is a 4080.
Minisforum MS-02 adding a couple of SATA ports would make this absolutely perfect!
The biggest thing attracting me to the Mac has nothing to do with the Mac. the fact I dislike windows 11
What do you wanna do with a single mac mini? I don’t get the use case when theres no storage upgradability or anything
Just install Linux, it's way cheaper than a Mac
@@lopwidth7343 The facts are that by the time it's time to upgrade storage, most users are just upgrading the whole machine anyway. Buy 25%-50% more storage than you think you need and call it a day, OR just upgrade the whole machine like you'll probably do anyway.
@@AltonV Generally the "best available" business/consumer software package for a certain task, is far better on Windows and Mac, than on Linux. The exception is if you're a software developer, where Linux is not only a viable alternative, but every day you use it, you're building skills in the OS that 96% of all servers are running on. Disclaimer: I don't get all tribal over one OS or the other. The comparison chart on them makes them each best in certain niches. Better to be a both/and thinker than an either/or thinker.
@@Äpple-pie-5k it’s honestly this for me I’ve been doing a lot of photo editing recently , and with apple silicone’s admittedly impressive performance, and also impressive emulation and Rosetta and developers porting software and growing game compatibility; yes while upping storage and ram is expensive you still end up paying an arm and a leg upgrading SSDs I think on my current PC I’ve spent close to 6K USD over time, and it’s still running an 11th gen i7, and 3080. With how much components cost. I might as well spend a small amount extra and buy a Mac. I’ll equally be dealing with compatibility issues regardless. However getting a Mac seems to be the most frictionless for my workflows. I’ve messed with Linux before, and that’s probably what will end up happening to my current system. But as I get older I just need my tech to work for me, I’m tired of working for my computer.
The real news here is the N5 Pro NAS ... now STFU and take my money!
I can't wait to get my hands all over this thing
Nice device. But if you need GPU nota match for the M4.
You can add a GPU in the PCIe slot or an external GPU enclosure.
Can't do either with an M4 Mac
if you need a GPU, or don't like to lug a big power brick, or don't like hearing that fan spin up and whine to try to cool that 85W-100W CPU.
@@AltonV Because you don't need to. GPU that pwns this one is included FREE, and you can throw in a 2TB SSD running FOUR TIMES FASTER transfer speeds on the outside, and still be using 1/6 the space of the minisforum PC EVEN IF IT HAD NO POWERBRICK. But I think for the price of that GPU upgrade on the minisforum, the Mac user might as well take that money and bump up the stock internal SSD _before_ he buys it, then call it a day having a 5x5 inch box that PWNS the minisforum in almost every benchmark: memory bandwidth, NPU, single core, drive I/O, external port speeds, etc., and so on, and so forth.
Compare it to the M4 mini to back up the title of this video…
800 bucks for a NAS without any storage included is way too much. For that price you're better off building a small pc with a bunch of storage in it
While I do understand and agree with you, there is a healthy market for this. I will state I own a few MS01s for small workstations and servers, my only complaint is the lack of ability to fit a 2-slot full height PCIe GPU. There just isn’t a healthy enough selection of single slot half height cards right now in the states.
@@napalmsteak what are your use cases for those machines?
The (small) form factor is the main selling point. Did you notice the company name?
So no, comparing it to a larger machine is not an apples to apples comparison.
@@Dycell hence the first part of my comment.
@@firstspar Plex Server, Unraid Server, 3D CAD Workstation at least for my uses. I have used Proxmox on them and it does amazing, the processing power vs the power requirement is punching WELL above it's weight class in terms of features for small homelab nodes.
With Jake, I can never tell if he is truly thrilled or just really good with sponsored items😂😂
Nice but really the Mac Mini is still a lot smaller plus you need a power brick for that MS.
they're both going to be hidden behind the monitor/under the desk, so it doesn't matter when they're both this small.
It's an appliance not an art piece.
Power bricks are such a dunk to Apple stans until you mention the iMac Ethernet+power brick, which is just an irredeemable sin unto God. Then it was smart to make a stationary object as lithe as possible
Also has a much better integrated gpu on the Mac
@@RayanMADAO the new ryzen ai chips are looking kinda insane rn, maybe they’ll compete well with m4 in sff desktops when they’re getting more power
For the Mac mini you need an SSD case etc. Which is way worse xD .
In the end, it is not a notebook. You usually don't travel with it - both are small enough for everything
The last system you looked at; the "NAS" seems more like a little workstation to me. Tons of available storage space, fast CPU, upgradable memory, ability's to have a GPU.... that would be one hardcore NAS unit.... but seems like it would work better as an editing rig or something similar that can use a lot of storage space.
Only reason I’m using 4 mac mins in my rack is because of the integrated power supply and having them all uniform size up until the new one I have a 2012 Mac mini to a M1 Mac mini all rack mounted and I use this for production and events just wish other manufacturers integrated their power supplies into the form factor
Literally every rack mount PC ever made has an integrated power supply
@@matt5721 the difference is 99% of rackmount PCs will take up a whole u by itself and deeper than a Mac mini would be if you look up Mac mini rack mounted you can fit two of them in a single u in very short depth you can also rackmount mini pcs, but the power supplies are not integrated, which just means it’s taking up space somewhere else.
Find a real problem, that's just trying to find problems when the don't exist
@@Fran-kc2gu it’s probably a use case that you don’t have to deal with but I have to take my equipment with me to every job. I have 4 Mac mini‘s and HDMI switcher, HDMI matrix,UPS,extenders multiple other pieces of A/V equipment all in a 10u road case
@@mahdiabbas1484 what are you using the macs for?
I bought a minis forum that came without Windows OS. I bought it new from MicroCenter. I reached out to support and they said they wouldn’t honor any service because I didn’t buy through an authorized reseller. Returned it for the M4 Mac mini. Guess who doesn’t ship their shit without an activated OS?
So MS-A2 with two U.2 SSDs when?
Image the NAS would be available without mainboard tray and you can just slide in the MS-01 or MS-A1
1:15 So USB4... is 10 Gbps? Joke? disqualification for me...
No…. USB 4 is 40Gbps. He said this doesn’t have USB 4, just 2 10Gbps USB Cs
@@davedivesdeeper I know. I use Beelink SER7 every day. In this case it says USB4 on the casing, but it is not actually USB4
The NAS is crazy, this sets a new bar for home/ edge NAS, Synology, UGreen, TeraMaster…
Fire in the thumbnail seems like really bad timing
LTT is tone deaf to American events
My primary concern is how few watts can this NAS consume if fully populated and drives in standby. This will be the typical state fort my NAS and sad it is running 24/7, that number must be low. 20 Watts+ is too high.
Apple - it just works. All squeezed beautifully to a well rounded product
This - is just broke.
Gathered hardware from all across to try compete with apple’s pricing😂
How much power watt in this nas?
Jake lost some weight, he looks healthy! Keep it up Jake, you're glowing
This is the kind of competitive market we yearned for in the mid 2010s. Here it is 10 years later.
Except that the power consumption is atrocious and double than M4 under full load, not to mention the idle wattage of M4, Mac Mini has Thunderbolt 4 and 5 which maxes at 80 Gbps while this supports only 10 Gbps, my 7-years old laptop has the same USB specs.
That IO load out is begging for somebody to make this into a forbidden firewall.
To me it doesn't matter how many more watts they can put into these little machines. Efficiency is way more impressive than raw performance, especially with this form factor.
Don’t forget that more watts equals more noise. Mini-pcs are loud under load. The laptop coolers in them are also a major failure point.
so its $200 more than a mac mini and pales in comparison in gpu performance and having a massive power brick
nobody cares about the power brick. that's just grasping at straws
@@kristofsomers2020 Maybe but what about the extra GPU cost + very limited options? Not only that but china shipping + customs? Is the warranty realiable?
Plus you're stuck with Windows 11. Nobody really wants Windows 11. It was the thing that Microsoft used to finally drive me away after decades on PC only.
Its a pc, can easily just install Win10 or Linux
It’s not even a comparison this is still piece of crap. Mac mini is still the best for the price and the energy it consumes for the performance it delivers.
Not just the PC looking smaller form factor...Jake's weight loss, looking better and better. Good job mate....keep up the grind bro!!
Clickbait that doesn’t change the fact people buy Mac for its ecosystem and it still can fly off the shelf.
LTT crew went to CES to milk sponsor funds lol
Operation get whatever you can
85W just for the processor... just 4x times more the mac mini uses for total consumption. I would love to see this little sauna under full workload for an hour hauauh
I get it started on heavy workload a few minutes before clocking into work. Because the loud fan makes a nice soothing "white noise" effect for me to calm my nerves. Mac mini is inaudible and doesn't have this feature.
“Add a GPU,” “Not really Thunderbolt,” “100 watts?” “We need more power!” “I’m giving it all she’s got, Captain. 100 watts!” Can you do a head-to-head with a comparable M4 system? Then, also, with various models up to M4 Pro, Max, Ultra? Will there be Intel chips to compare with what the M4 Ultra will be?
Needs the power button on the button
I heard you like buttons dog, so I put a button on your button.
Bottom* :)
Minisforum is the brand that made me leave Apple's Mac world for Linux. I wanted a desktop, but the Mac Mini was too expensive for bad specifications and I'm a student, so I'm tight on the budget.
I'll be forever grateful for how good their mini-PCs are despite the low price.
I was planning on getting an M4 mini base due to price per cpu core but I’m second guessing
Dang just managed to take a home a MS-01 I bought a year ago at work with my training budget to replace my home server. Feels bad to see a version that’s twice as fast now 😂
What's the idle/load draw? Mac Mini: * teeheehee *
Seriously holy f-balls can we not get away from this power insanity? Put the AMD crew onto making insane RISC er sorry I mean ARM architecture chips with practically zero idle draw and "what's that tingling sensation" load draw so we can all get on with our lives by powering our cars instead. THAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANKS.
Fake reviewing these prototypes dressed as consumer ready devices is pretty wild. I hope people realize this is just a halfway model to help subsidize development costs. The issue is as viewers we legitimately cannot tell where the ad dollars and shillouts end and the genuine enthusiasm for product stacks begins. That really takes the wind out of the sails for this video, because I enjoy several of the personalities featured on LMG vids.
Still getting the mac mini.
That puppy running Linux would be a powerhouse!
WTF? Why would they put 10GbE SFP+ on the workstation and 10GbE RJ45 on the NAS? Reverse that or use SFP+ everywhere....
No, that's the correct way to do it. What the fuck does a NAS need SFP+ for? It's ludicrously expensive, holds no advantage in speeds or latency when it comes to sending content over a network or transcoding video, and requires a specialized firmware all on its own.
But if you're doing cluster compute on a bunch of mini-PCs? SFP+ is PERFECT.
@@spdcrzy SFP+'s are more power efficient and are more used on servers. A NAS is a file server.
Required specialized firmware? WTF are you talking about?
@@icebalm ... serious question: do you not know how SFP+ works?
@@spdcrzy Yes I do. Do you?
@@icebalm it's a consumer NAS. What makes you think a consumer NAS needs SFP+? Not many people have an SFP+ network switch in their home - even among those who are building a barebones NAS. A mini workstation product is a whole different scenario. The new hottest thing in computing is networked small form factor PCs - Macs and PCs alike. And the Mac Mini is a beast at AI training in all respects - size, price, performance, power consumption. This competes directly with it, and does a brilliant job because whereas the Mac Mini is Thunderbolt and 10Gig only, this has potential for much more.
Awesome. Been waiting for Minisforum to make a NAS SFF PC. Right now we're stuck with QNAP, Synology, Asustor with Celeron or AooStar with 5825U. I'll already in line to get the Minisforum 370 HX NAS SFF PC.