This Finnish language rule will help begginers communicate in Finnish! - Prepositions/prepositiot
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- Опубліковано 26 вер 2024
- In this video I try to explain the basic use of propositions in the Finnish language. This personally helped me to communicate in Finnish and hopefully will help others who are nee to the Finnish language.
#finnishlife #Finnish #suomi #lifeinfinland #livinginfinland #helsinki #finnishlanguage
I have made an updated version of this video which you can find here - ua-cam.com/video/tTykP8MUGOQ/v-deo.htmlsi=M3toroECgIr65fhM
If you say "asemassa" you are in a fox hole with an assault rifle waiting for the enemy.
I think duolinguo is terrible for finnish learning. Finnish grammar rules are complex, so you need looots of example sentences to really get the patterns. Also, the first words that you learn are useless (people names and "velho"=wizard).
I agree. I completed duolingo before moving here to finland and its pretty much useless. Its much more complicated than that.
Hey! Yeah, I totally agree with you. It is better than nothing, good for activating your Finnish language brain, but not good for developing your skill to a useful level.
@@Anonamoosemouse I feel that duolingo is amazing if you don’t know where to start and just want to start learning a bit! It’s great to build a habit of studying everyday, and to have exposure to the target language on a daily basis so you internalize some sentence structure. It doesn’t replace true studying, but for some reasons it can be exactly what some people need :D
“Wizard” is probably the most important word to know in Finnish! Come on now 😅
They definitely should teach the more useful word "noita" (witch). Nobody's a wizard in here. Oddly enough they also teach witch in German. It's "hexe". Good to know on my holiday to Germany.
Also the -lla and -ssa really aren't referring to open or closed spaces as such, but more like inside or vicinity. "Kaapissa" is inside the cupboard and "Kaapilla" is in the vicinity of the cupboard (not on the cupboard like you said) like if you are rummaging trough the cupboard. But sometimes -lla can mean "on something" like "Järvellä" on/(in the vicinity of) a lake or "Vuorella" on/(in the vicinity of) a mountain but those are considered so much bigger than a cupboard that you can't really say where you are but if you need to specify that something is on top of something like with a cupboard you say "-n päällä". "Kaapin päällä", "Järven päällä", "Vuoren päällä".
Also with the train station you can think that you are around where the train stops not in where it stops, but I think that has more to do how train/bus stations weren't and sometimes still aren't an integral part of the function of getting on the train/bus but being near a station will get you there. And if you are in a park you are in it "-ssa" probably sitting down and enjoying a picnic or the view and not just wondering around the outskirts of it. So there is a dynamic component to this also.
To loop back to open and closed spaces, it might be more about static vs. movement. If you are in the forest "Metsässä" you probably are camping or lost but if you are "Metsällä" you are hunting for something be it mushrooms or moose and moving a lot. If you are in the lake "Järvessä" you are floating, swimming, or diving but if you are "Järvellä" you are on a boat or walking along the shore which is more dynamic.
Hei, thanks for your comment, it's interesting to hear another opinion! I am explaining it how I was taught by my Fiinnish teacher and she referred to open (lla) and closed (ssa) spaces when explaining it to our class. She did also mention lla as being in the area of something like koululla when you're at a school instead of actually being in a classroom, but I forgot to mention this as it didn't come up as much in our lessons.
I haven't heard the idea of dynamic vs static so this is something I will try to remember for the future!
I've used this website a few times to learn about grammer and they also refer to inner (ssa) and outer (lla) locations. It does also give some examples that might explain dynamic vs. static, but it doesn't work consistently either because toimistossa would mean working, while toimistolla would mean just chatting at work or taking care of something rather than actively working
uusikielemme.fi/finnish-grammar/finnish-cases/location-cases/hyllylla-or-hyllyssa-poydassa-or-poydalla
I think there are always a lot of exceptional with Finnish so maybe it's too complicated to use any specific rule in all cases?
@@Finnago94 could be that the underlying logic is just there hidden under layers of short sentences but there is a logic still.
To work at "toimistossa" sounds like you are working in an agency and to work at "toimistolla" is to work at a consulting firm. So there is the restriction to work in or be around the office. But as you said about the closed or open space, you are more strict with -ssa and more free with -lla, so that is pretty good gist of the concept.
“Open vs closed spaces” is relatively accurate from what I’ve learned, though I would call it internal vs external. But the “static vs movement” is ALSO true (you strangely used only static suffixes to make your point). All of this is determined by 6 locative cases.
-ssä and -llä represent static position (in and at/on respectively); -stä and -ltä signify movement “away from” (out of and from respectively); and -(vowel)-n and -lle signify movement “toward” (into and to/onto respectively).
The locative cases are about BOTH internal/external and static/dynamic. I honestly love the simple patterns it follows. It’s a breath of fresh air for me compared to when I study German. 😅
@@Finnago94 If something is on a table one does say "pöydällä" but if something is on a cupboard one uses a postposition "kaapin päällä". I cannot think a case were with the same word one can use inessive to mean inside and adessive to mean on top - well maybe an arm chair is one. You sit in it (tuolissa) but if you put something on it it is "tuolilla".
Teachers can overthink these things. While one associates adessive typically with "on" it can also be used to describe "at" or "has". "I have a car" => "Minulla on auto". "I have cancer" => "Minulla on syöpä".
Puisto is a place where there are trees (puu) so it is a closed park. Sure the term has since expanded to mean other things partially because of English influence.
Great channel my friend. Although I'm not sure why the algorithm is showing me this video. I am fluent in Finnish. Perhaps the microphone overheard me after one too many beers and they thought I co7ld use a refresher course. But I will share this with my friends who always want to learn some finnish but I can't really explain the rules that great because u learned from my immigrant grandmother and my father as a baby.
Thank you. It was very helpful. Olet ihana.
Hey!
I'm pretty sure the second sentence (6:41) should have been "MIHIN sinä menet?" instead of "MISSÄ sinä menet?", as it the answer to "Missä sinä olet?" would be "talossa", not "taloon". Also the word for cupboard (13:09) is "kaappi", not "kaapin". The latter is a conjugated form of "kaappi". Maybe it was just a typo.
I noticed that you seem to often mix up the letters A and Ä. Despite them looking and even sounding kind of similar, they are different letters. I would suggest looking up "Finnish vowel harmony", if you don't know about it. It basically means that only specific vowels can be together in a single (non-compound) word. It is very useful knowledge. I always explain the pronunciation difference between A and Ä to English speaking learners as the following:
A = the same sound as the letter A in the English word "car"
Ä = the same sound as the letter A in the English word "cat"
Also you pronounce the letter U in like the letter Y in the word "katu" at 9:31.
Nice video though. It's cool that you are learning Finnish. Happy learning! 🙂
Hey, thanks for the detailed comment! Yes, you are totally right about what you're saying.
I hope I explained the basic principles well, but I made a mistake by saying missä sina menet when I should have used mihin and also using kaapin as the basic form when it is genetiivi.
I do often get the sounds a bit wrong, the y u ö sounds can be difficult! I think a and ä is a bit easier, but I'm sure I still make mistakes often.
I will probably re-do this video in the future. I made it just after learning the rules so I can definitely do a better video now.
Thanks for watching :)
This was really comprehensive thanks 🙏
Very helpful, thanks!
Kaapilla = at the cupboard
Kaapin päällä = on the cupboard
thanks for the video - it is very useful in my opinion 😊
Really glad it helped!
6:42 and 8:27 The question should be "Minne sinä menet?", while the phrasing used here is essentially correct as a word-for-ford translation, the meaning is more like "At what point of your journey are you now?".
13:09 cupboard is "kaappi", and "kaapin" is its possessive case.
Also, "minä" and "sinä" seem to be missing their dots, which are not diacritics, as ä and ö are letters of their own (å too, but we don't talk about that).
Kiittos! Helped me alot with my finnish lessons
I'm really glad to hear this helped you! 😊
Kaapilla is "at the cupboard". The adessive case is strange as the meaning depends on the object. If it is something on which things are put: table, floor etc. It means "on". If not it means "at". If it is a person then it means "has": "Pekalla on auto" = "Pekka has [got] a car" this also applies to things like diseases. The general way to say on top is the postposition "päällä". You could say "pöydän päällä" though it sounds somewhat weird.
Well yes, sometimes you pick adessive rather than inessive because it's complicated. Like country names. Russia is complicated.
Just want to say well done & good luck with your Finnish journey. I’m half-Finnish and it’s always been difficult to wrap my head around case endings. You’re doing really well!
Very quickly, though, about “-sta” endings - they’ve often confused me because, as I recently confirmed with my Finnish teacher, they can be used in other contexts like saying something is characterised by something.
E.g. The phrases "Suomen työkulttuuri on melko tasa-arvoinen" and "Suomen työkulttuuri on melko tasa-arvoista" are similar, but there is a slight difference in emphasis and nuance.
1. "Suomen työkulttuuri on melko tasa-arvoinen":
- This sentence focuses on the overall nature of the work culture in Finland, emphasizing that it is somewhat gender-equal or fair.
2. "Suomen työkulttuuri on melko tasa-arvoista":
- This sentence, with the use of "tasa-arvoista," directly refers to the quality of equality in the work culture. It emphasizes that the work culture is somewhat characterized by equality.
Hey! Thank you for the nice comment! Yes, that's actually a good point that I didn't consider in this video. In some cases -sta would be partitiivi, while I only spoke about -sta as being mistä form. For example -nen words in partitiivi would have -sta endings which is a different meaning and the mistä ending would be -sesta.
It is very difficult when there are so many rules to consider every aspect, but this is definitely a good point! The learning continues! 😅
I’m also half Finnish, heard my mother speak it on the phone to friends and family weekly half my life. And I know just a hand full of words and their meaning 😅 My mom loved that she had a secret language where noone in the house knew what she was saying. So, be happy! 🥴🤶🏻👍
@@fuzzylogics139That’s pretty evil to not teach the kids her native language
@@TomAnderson7 That's alright, there were already 3 languages spoken in the house. So 4 would be a bit much, she had other motives than just her being able to speak her secret language :) She absolutely was an angel especially considering how she herself had grown up.
Moi! I just found your channel! As a fellow learner, I found your video great. You have it far better than us because you have someone to speak with. We rely on TV shows, cartoons, music, movies, and radio shows. *sigh* But we plod on!
Have to binge your videos now🎉
Moi! Yes it is a very useful asset... although we rarely speak Finnish at home until very recently and I have spoken to others in the same position as me who don't speak Finnish at home either. Have you found any useful methods to learn so far?
@Finnago94 Unfortunately, we have absolutely no one around us to practice speech with. We are doing well on reading and listening, but talking? Nope. Now when I told Jarno over at Easy Finnish that I speak aloud to my dogs during the day, he said that that was fine. They don't answer, but....
The husband and I refrain from speaking to one another (except for directional type statements) for fear we will be saying the wrong things and have them imprint in our brains incorrectly. For learning, we watch many Finnish vloggers, cartoons, soap opera repeats, news shows, and instructor videos. We had done Duolingo to start, have been doing the Finnish for Foreigners 1 book and workbook, Finnish word search books, we have a parallel reader, and the Speakly app.
mä täs jäin miettimään suomenkielisenä sanaa "saari" tässä. eli kun kysytään missä sä olet, niin voidaan sanoa "autiolla saarella" mutta yleensä kuitenkin ollaan "saaressa". en tajuu itsekään miksi tässä eri päätteet.. lisäksi kaupunkien nimet on tosi haasteellisia jos kysytään "missä kävit" niin vastataan esim Tampereella mutta toisaalta joku on ehkä käynyt Oulussa. tosi sekavaa.. mut mukavaa opiskeluintoa suomen kielen parissa! :)
Riippuu siitä että onko sitä ihan tarkoituksella mennyt saareen retkelle vai mennyt saarelle myrskyn yllättäessä.
Karilla, luodolla. Autiolla saarella ollaan lähinnä jonkun vahingon takia ja sieltä halutaan pois. Paikannimissä ei todellakaan ole mitään selkeää logiikkaa: Alastarolla mutta Ylistarossa. Jotani vihjettä antaa joet ym. siksi sanotaan Vantaalla, kun ei olla joessa. "Tampereella" tulee kai siitä, että se on perustettu Tammerkoskelle. Luultavasti alueesta yleisesti on käytetty nimeä Tammerkoski, jolloin muoto oli "Tammerkosella" ja se sitten periytyi kaupungin nimeen. Sama tosin ei käynyt Helsingille vaan siitä oikea muoto on Helsingissä. Johtuu kai, että täällä valtakieli oli ruotsi ja yhteys koskeen katosi jo ruotsin kielessä. Helsinki tulee ruotsinkieliestä kutsumanimestä Helsinge.
Thanks for this! it makes sense!🌻
I finished the whole duolingo course in Finnish in way less than a year (pandemic time!). I was shocked when it ended because i hardly knew anything! except vocabulary about animals and some food. I understand that finnish is seriously grammar based and that is more difficult to explain, but i really think duolingo needs to up their game if they advertise that people can communicate after using their program. that is not true with suomi.
I totally agree! I'm sure most users are learning different, easier languages so maybe it makes sense to focus on the products that do well for them? Pretty good to finish the whole course in well under a year! 💪
At least we all now know how to warn others that a Norwegian cat is indeed a viking...
Finally someone said it. I fail to understand why people are so chuffed up about Duolingo. It does a great job of keeping you engaged in language learning, but very little in making you truly learn a language. If you do some time accounting of how much time you have spent on learning a language, Duolingo, in my opinion, makes you time bankrupt. It doesn't help to have a 700 days long streak if all you can do is recite some vocabulary and have very basic conversations. I have tried learning German, Turkish, French, Swedish, Arabic, and Finnish using Duolingo. I haven't really learnt any Turkish and Arabic beyond some basic words such as greetings and polite words. As for the others, there are loads of other resources which have helped me improve the languages much quicker and given me much more useful language.
15 minutes I'll never get back..
Talossa = in the house
Talolla = by the house or at the house
Why do you pronounce the “u” the way you do? Isn’t it wrong? Or is it a different “murre” 😅
Do you start teaching Finnish at 3:20?
good video
I decided to learn finnish today😊
Because l learned Finnish and Turkish are similar languages and l am Turkish ☺️ i hope l can be as good as you!
Are they similar? If yes, how?
I don't think they sound similar. They must have some similar Grammer maybe? Suomi sounds more like Estonian. It is also related to Hungarian, but in my opinion sounds nothing like it. Turkish is cool sounding as well but it sounds totally different from Suomi. I love languages and Finnish aka Suomi is one of the hardest and most different of all the languages I have ever attempted. I love it!
What about if I say "Minä olen kotona"? 😅 And remember tje quention was "Missä".
And also, why "Torissa" is wrong and Torilla is write? 😅
Hope you explain that 👍
Hei!! So there are always some exceptions to the rules in Finnish and I guess even in English. For example you wouldn't say I eated food, you say I ate food, but usually -ed implies past tense. The same example as kotona could also apply to days of the week like Maanantaina. It can also be confusing how some towns and cities use -ssa and others use -lla and it's not something you can logically understand. Torilla I think makes sense because a market is often in an open place and Tori can also apply to a City's square which is usually outside and an open space.
Of course I am not a native speakers though so you could also ask a native speakers for their opinion.
It would be good for you to practice differentiating 'a' and 'ä' in your speaking. There is a lot more separation between the sounds than your creating. English 'a' as in 'far' is s not lower (back vowel), while 'ä' is further forward than any vowel sound in English, almost making a smile shape with the mouth.
Nice to hear your experience learning Finnish. I'm a British expat who has been trying to learn Finnish too.
Hey!! Thank you for the comment! Yes I totally agree, I think as an English speakers it is hard for me to see ä and a as different letters when I've only had a for 27 years, bit it is definitely important and something that I should focus on more!
@@Finnago94 I've had some very fussy Finnish girlfriends that were very quick to correct me. Meanwhile some of my friends are saying 'Minugh... oelin...Bob' rather than Minä olen Bob :D :D
You're right about the mouth having its own muscle habits from making the same sounds for decades.
Why at first you used lle and later lla For an open space clify me on that kiitos
Hey! So -lla and -lle are both for open spaces. -lla is at the open space or being with the open space, but -lle is going to the open space. -ssa is in an enclosed space. It doesn't work 100% of the time because you can say puistossa (being in a park) or junaasemalla is being in a train station, travelling by a mode of transport is also always -lla like junalla, bussilla etc, but this basic rule should work almost every time apart from a few exceptions. I think in Finnish there are always exceptions to the rule. I hope that helps!
Minä olen kotona is also right
Yes, that's right, there are definitely exceptions to the main rules in Finnish! 🙄 Nähdään Perjantaina is also a weird one to think about as an English speaker.
Dude there are no prepositions. T. I have lived in Canada but I am Finnish
Hey thanks for the comment. There are some pre-positions in Finnish like keskella and lähellä which are then followed by partitive conjugations. But, yes it is mostly post-positions in Finnish, unlike the English language.
Mihin sinä menet?
Missä sinä olet? Olen kotona.
Sinä olet mukava ja hauska.
Olen herra Herrera. 😂
Kiitos paljon! :)
On the second part "Mistä" you asked "Missä sinä menet?" which could be literally translated as "Where are you going?" but it's slang and means "Where are you at?" teasingly referring that you assume the one you are asking is on the move, so to say. You should have used "Mistä sinä tulet?".
Hey, thanks for watching! Can you please give me a time-stamp for this? I just watched it over and can't find where it says missä sinä menet? I can only find missä sinä tulet? Examples. But, Yes I agree with your comment.
@@Finnago94 6:39 Thank you for asking. I hope you didn't see my comment as something negative. Feel free to ask further if you still want to study the stupid language that is finnish as per your latest video :D
@@Finnago94 I'm sorry, I meant to say "Mihin sinä menet?" on the second part that of the lecture that was "Mihin?" but what you said at the 6:39 "Missä sinä menet?" is wrong per what I said before.