I agree, the high thumb rest is critical. Current prototype has a ridge where the thumb needs to go. Not at all sure why they left this as is. Harry recommends cutting out a groove for the thumb to rest in. Apparently this will not be done on the new handles at production. It will be for the owner to do.
I should add that the new handle's primary modification is a 15 degree clockwise rotation about its central axis. This requires a new groove to be cut for your thumb to lay/ align properly.
I know they were working on something and have seen pix. I think if they rotate slightly and then add some padding to the right (for right hander) it will be perfect. Putting a high thumb rest allows your hand to go up even higher in the CG ... which is very good ... if your arm aligns with the recoil line then it should be perfect.
Yes I see this is a bulky, heavy gun for all-around use. I am hunting wahoo now in Key West and would give anything to have that 130 as you set it up...assuming the handle modification fits my smallish hand so as to place my forearm on the same line as the recoil force. Interestingly, as you note not much of a problem with rifles which is correct. Shotguns however have about 1/3 the m.v. Accordingly, stocks have been designed to align forces for over 200 years! Like you I have many spearguns. I like the concept and application of an all- around gun because our local waters can present almost any opportunity at any time. However, it seems an Abellan Denton 130 for blue water and a 120 for all else might make sense, but I defer to your judgement. You mentioned in a separate reply to me than you would soon be testing the 120. I've seen your previous 120 tests, so I presume the gun you are going to test is a 2017 Abellan Denton 120?
Thanks for the valuable information. Your knowledge base is exceptional. So for this Rob Allen 150 ( 180 has 17cm overhang...will need to preserve about 10cm for slip tip slide ring) - I assume my best option is 7.5 x 175 or 180? I don't believe the sear will accept a larger diameter spear. At 7.5 x 180, what e.f. Do you think I can use without inducing shaft whip to an undesirable degree?
Dear Majd, another great Test! I have the old Denton 120 which I prefer to use with the shorter original 140x8 and a Wong Supermagnum 65 for BWH which especially when used with two hands or put against my shoulder is very precise even over 5-6m. I wanted something in between the two and I have found a good offer on a second hand "new" Denton 120 wich has 10cm more of band stretch than the older model and a 160x8 shaft. Would the new Denton 120 be an interesting addition besides the old 120 or would it be better getting a full price Albacore 130 with 160x8.5? From your test it seems that the albacore 130 may actually make my Wong redundant but if the new 120 is differnt enough I may find it easier to justify the expense. Many thanks and best regards
There is a huge difference between the Albacore 130 and the Denton 120 or Wong. The Albacore 130 is much heavier and is really designed for long range blue water hunting large pelagics. I can easily claim that the gun tested here is the most powerful gun I have ever tested. You won't see many spearguns that will get just 2 inches shaft drop at 8 meters ... that is just ridiculous. The Denton 120 is great for reef hunting and will be able to handle the occasional pelagic ... but at closer distances. The Denton 120 is best setup with a 7.5mm or 8mm shaft while the Albacore is best with an 8.5mm shaft.
Dear Majd, many thanks for your reply. The results of your test are indeed fantastic, and I am considering buying the Albacore 130, especially if I can find a good used one. While the Albacore seems to be extremely powerful and precise, the Wong SuperMagnum 65 is still a very good and reliable gun, straight out of the box, with a band lenght of 165cm and with a 172x8mm shaft even though you may need two hands to shoot it well. To rephrase my question...in your opinion, having already an arsenal including the "old" Denton 120 and a BW gun, would the "new" Denton 120, which has 10cm longer band stretch and longer shaft fill a niche or there would be too much overlap with the other two guns?
The Wong cannot be compared to the Albacore. It is a mid handle that has a low handle and cannot be powered up ... even with low power it will shoot low due to muzzle flip. If you power it up you will completely lose control and accuracy goes out the window. As for the Denton 120, it comes setup with an 8mm shaft, but I feel a 7.5mm shaft is a better fit. The Denton 120 would need about 5 to 10 cm extra band stretch to push an 8mm shaft at very high velocities ... either that or a slightly shorter shaft at about 155cm.
Hi Majd, hope all is well. I was wondering if you had compared mono vs dyneema shooting line for the setup used in this test, and the impact in terms of shaft drop/penetration? 1000lbs spliced 2mm dyneema has served me well on the albacore 130 with 3x14.5 @ 370%, particularly on gnarly fish like dogtooth (basically something else is going to break before the dyneema does) - on the other hand, I've heard many times that dyneema fills up with water and therefore makes for a slower (and possibly slightly dropping) shot compared to say 500lbs mono. Have you had the chance to compare both? I see you ran this test with mono shooting line but I feel this set-up would be a tad "light" to go after dogthooth for instance or even big YFT. Would appreciate any insight/tip on this if you can. Thanks and be well!
YFT and DT are completely different fish and need different hardware. A 50kg DT can pull under a 35l float while a 100kg YFT cannot. Also DT tend to hang around reefs where they will get tangled deep and become impossible to collect or get eaten by sharks ... so you need specialized gear to keep them shallow. YFT usually are in deep water and you just let it get tired. For YFT even 300lb mono is enough in open water, unless there are sharks. With DT I would use 2 floats (one very shallow) and you really just need to try and get a good accurate stone shot. For DT, 1.6 to 1.8mm cable is a very good idea as it does not lose shaft velocity and drop your impact point. Cable is also immune from damage of shark teeth and sharp coral. I have a video testing an Albacore 130 with cable here ua-cam.com/video/0H_lDFHRPV4/v-deo.html
@@majdq8 Thank you Majd, the test with the cable is very impressive/helpful indeed! I was expecting much more signigicang shaft drop but there is barely any. Agreed that we're talking about 2 very different fish/fighting modes here. Is there a model/brand/distributor of coated cable you'd recommend? Also, on cable, are you using 1 sleeve, 2 sleeves, or you braid it? Really appreciate all your guidance, thanks again!
@@Jseb011 I use this site and rig with one crimp but sometimes I add a second crimp. With heavy shafts like 8.5mm or 9mm the cable performs almost like mono. catchalltackle.com/
Beautiful job testing the 130. Here in Key West, I would likely load 1 band for reef fish of 8-20 pounds, 2 for big black grouper ( the 8.5mm shaft is ideal) , 3 for pelagics. Does the gun handle and maneuver well enough to be used muti- purpose as I described above?
This is too powerful to shoot into rocks ... you would need a jack hammer to get your shaft out. Maybe if you load 2 bands rather than 3 and put a 7.5mm shaft it would be ok.
I have both the albacore and Denton 120. With the 2-band Denton, i shot 25 ft - through a modest size reef fish then into rock reef. the 6mm threads holding my JBL rocktip snapped off! this happened twice then I had the shafts re-machined to 15/16" with new JBL rocktip and no problem with about 8 shots into rocks after hitting or missing some Calif sheepsheads, got 5 fish in an hour. (Got a striped marlin with my first shot of the Albacore :-)
Hi Mate. I have a 120 wooden gun with a stainless sliptip 1650 8mm shaft. Only have two options of rubbers from the stores in nz. 14mm & 16mm. Would it be better to use 3x 14mm @ 360/380% or use 3x 16mm rubbers? Thank you
Thank you for sharing your precious knowledge with us Majd. I'm thinking about geting a Denton 120. Do you recommend the old or new version for hunting 5-10kg pelagic fish on the reef?
I would wait and get the gun after they start producing it with the new modified handles. Unless of course you are willing to do the handle modification yourself (which is not too difficult). I do plan to test the Denton 120 soon and I have tested the 110 ... so I expect a little better performance. You can see the 110 being tested here (it was called the 120 before) ua-cam.com/video/C4a6M9kXz88/v-deo.html
Thanks. I am setting up a Rob Allen 150 for a friend, it comes with 2x87cm 16mm small I.d. bands with a pull length of 153cm, so stretch is 3.52. Would you expect this gun to perform better with a 2x14.5mm at e.f. 3.8 setup?
I don't think you can push that gun to 380% ... I would go around 330%. With a low handle you hurt performance when you push power up. You need to start with a low band stretch and observe how things are going as you go higher. If you go too high you will destabilize the shaft and reverse performance.
They are completely different guns power wise. The Ablacore is a huge step up in power and is designed for large fish in clear water. It gives you dramatically more power and flat shooting. It easily has the range to take on even the largest pelagics at 8 meters from tip of shaft ... it is the only gun I have tested that can do that. In a nutshell, it gives you about 2.5 meters of extra effective shooting range over the Abellan 120. If you hunt murky water, or have very good hunting skills that allow you to close that 2.5 meters ... or hunt in areas that fish let you get close ... then you don't need the Albacore.
You mentioned you would be reviewing the Denton 120 soon. I've seen your reviews from previous years, and trying to buy one soon. Has there been a change in the model for 2017? I assume there has been or there would be nothing new to test....unless you have a new set and/or modifications. Thanks, Steve
The Denton 120 is just a little bit longer than the older Dentons. This is not like the much heavier Albacore but an extended version of the older Dentons. Obviously I modify the handle as I feel that improves things a lot ... but with the Abellan handle that is very easy to do. The newer guns seem like they will have different handles that might make a mod not necessary ... but really haven't seen or tried the new handles yet. Also the muzzle and trigger guard stainless steel is of a thicker stronger gauge ... but that doesn't add anything to performance.
I've just seen the new Albacore 130 you posted. Amazing review! So, I suppose you won't uploading the review of the C4 Urukay 120, with all the modifications you said you did to the muzzle, and handle. Can you please share what was actually the best and most powerful set up you recommend for the C4 uru 120 (with all the modifications of yours). Shaft mm and length (also what brand shaft), rubbers etc? I believe we are a few of us that would be very happy hearing from you about that gun. Thank you for the info!
Unfortunately I lost a lot of the footage of the C4 mod, but I might do it again as it will not take too much time. Problem with the C4 was the muzzle and the line wrap as well as the grip and the old trigger with polynesian style line release. I was able to get very good performance using an 8mm @ 160cm shaft and 3 x 14.5mm small ID bands.
majdq8 and also...according to your consideration, what causes bigger problem? The trigger or the muzzle (I understand that both of them caused problem but which one hurts performance most)?
Hi, I'm following. I'm curious to know about the "elastic percentage" setting for a 120 gun. Use 8x165 rod, 3-16 rob allen and 3 -14 rob Allen use. But i'm not convinced, i know how to shoot urukay 120. scarlet Cressi 15mm which elongation ???
The trigger thing I did not know, I have old version and new version with new sagola release, I used 3 14 with 8x165 rod excellent shots and stable, now I put 3 16 unstably and ineffective
An other little question : my denton 120 (2x15mm cressi scarlet pure- 8mm shaft - all original configuration) shoot little low, and my robalo 90 (2x14mm cressi brown - 7,5 mm - all orginal configuration) shoot little hight .... what do you think about this ? Thank you again for youre work and youre passion
I think for both guns you should try 17-4 PH SS shafts such as the Hunt or Devotosub shafts. Also go for the new small ID bands as they give much better performance. The old Abellan guns had very soft shafts.
Yes you can get it from spearitco.com or spearamerica.com or benthicoceansports.com ... probably many other places are also selling the small ID bands today. Check the diameters as they can vary from time to time. For 7mm and smaller shafts look for something around 14mm ... larger diameter shafts looks for something around 14.5mm
helllo i have a pathos laser open carbon 100 what setup do u suggest for medium waters up to 15 meters and agguato techick i would go on 2 16 gorrila white bands with 7mm pathos shaft whats your thoughts??
I think you would do much better with 2 x 14mm small ID bands. Easier to load and much higher shaft velocity with less recoil ... this gets the shaft out very stable and thus better performance.
Hi, I'm following. I'm curious to know about the "elastic percentage" setting for a 120 gun. Use 8x165 rod, 3-16 rob allen and 3 -14 rob Allen use. But i'm not convinced, i know how to shoot urukay 120. scarlet Cressi 15mm which elongation ???
I use cressi 14mm brown (small id) instead of red 15mm. At an elongation factor of 365-375%, with a sigalsub 8mm 160cm, single bore shaft, i get amazing results. Eaaasily 6,5-7 meters EFFECTIVE range. But i did a small modification to the line release (i have the old one with the titanium trigger) in order for the shaft to have less traction with the line release, during the shot.
The best bands for the Urukay 120 are 14mm or 14.5mm small ID bands by Primeline. Cressi's new bands are made by Primeline and perform very similar to their normal bands. For 7mm shaft and thinner diameter, best is 2 x 14mm on the Urukay 120. For larger diameter shafts best is 2 x 14.5mm bands or even 3 x 14.5mm bands on the heaviest shaft. Cut length of bands should be 360% for the 7mm shaft and 370% to 380% on the larger diameter shafts. Of course on my Urukay 120 I have made major changes that have dramatically improved accuracy and performance. I changed the trigger, then changed how bands attack to the muzzle, and of course I made a custom handle that allows recoil to channel straight into my body rather to my thumb. Results are pretty amazing. Will try to make a video of this soon.
Yes ... change the trigger to line release on back ... the old line release was destabilizing shaft on exit and reducing velocity and accuracy. Also change the muzzle to a conventional wrap as that was also killing performance. Also a mod to the handle makes this a perfect package. On my modified Urukay 120 I can even shoot 8.5mm shafts with great power and accuracy with only 3 x 14.5mm bands.
is it possible to provide me some pictures with the above mentioned changes? (i assume it would be long time until you do a review and there are a lot of interest for the urukay) mantzakosgeo@yahoo.gr if it is possible. Thank you majdq8
Be patient ;) I promise I will put up a comprehensive review as I have a lot of friends asking me for exactly what you are asking. I had it all sorted out last year but unfortunately lost most of my footage to a HDD crash. Also the gun I modified was "borrowed" by a friend and he seems to have "lost" it now :) I have a new Urukay 120 with a new trigger and will do the mod and put up all the procedure and test results soon.
Do you consider the Albacore 130 to be a better gun in terms of power and overall built, than a bleutec oceanborn 130-135 special edition (heavier and broader than the simple oceanborn). Both with their best set up as well!
I have only tried the OB 125 and OB 145 ... not familiar with the new OB special edition. The Albacore 130 with 3 bands and modified handle easily outperforms the OB 145 default setup in both accuracy and power (by a LOT). The OB 125 performs equal to the Denton 120 with 2 bands, but it has more power than the D 120 when you put 3 bands on. The OB guns are great guns with very good design ... but they need to do something about the handle shaping and palm to trigger distance. A few shots with the OB 145 and you really feel like you have had enough punishment for the day ... while I can shoot the Albacore 130 with modified handle at full power all day long (it actually is a fun gun to shoot!)
I have some data from a Rob Allen 140 I've tested. Shaft 7mm x 170, bands Primeline 14.3 OD 1.6mm i.d., e.f. 3.615 yields 78 cm bands. Testing has shown excellent accuracy at 6m. Mild recoil. To set up the 150 with 7mm x 180, I was going to use same tubing at 3.615 x (170/180) =3.4 e.f. Hence 88cm bands. Do you think my method of correcting the e.f. For shaft length is valid?
For 7mm shaft the 14.3mm bands @ 360% stretch is perfect. But you will suffer from shaft whip if you push the power up and try to reach Terminal Velocity. A 7mm @ 180cm shaft will swim like a noodle once you power it up. For 180cm shafts I like to use 8.5mm or even 9mm shafts.
fantastic video thank you so much for sharing. Absolutly love the idea behind the tuned handles and have started Incorporating the ideas in some of my builds. thank you again for sharing your wealth of knowledge. 👍👍
You are welcome ... correct handle is very important in keeping the shaft absolutely stable on exit of track ... this gives much better shaft flight and less loss in velocity ... which gives more power and more accuracy!
I think in a few weeks. This would really make this gun perfect without any modifications. I think this is being done in the US by Harry who is the Abellan dealer there. His email is greekdiver5150 at gmail.
Another question, what was the point of testing at 5 and even 6 meters? Is there any particular reason that you had to recheck this already proven capabilities?
I like to know how my shaft is flying and how flat it is flying. Testing at different distances gives you a good idea of what the trajectory looks like. Another thing is many people will only see this one video and will not look at the other videos I put up.
I've been referred to the Trygon website and I see concepts there that seem directly opposed to your test data. First, that latex stretched to e.f. 3.5 will lose 20% of its " power" after stretched/ loaded for 30 minutes? Have you tested to confirm or refute this? As follows, trygon recommends a max e.f. Of only 3.1, and if more power is needed they use heavier tubing at same e.f. This seems in direct opposition to your test data. Any thoughts?
There is some power drop on loaded bands with time, this depends on temperature and rubber hardness and can be anywhere from 5% to 20%. What I do is I overpower the gun by 20% over its terminal velocity. This way I know that the shot will never be affected even after a long wait.
I recently did a power drop test on the small ID bands. Not much power is lost after all! At least not with the 45 minute soak time I used ... so maybe it is a myth. You can see the test here ua-cam.com/video/H-mTmi6dlkM/v-deo.html
Also if you ever get a chance try testing the Mythicon Erevos . 120 full carbon monoblock . Bends stretch to 136cm and comes with 3 x 16 bands by dunlop and shaft 160 x 7,5 or 160 x 8.0 mm . Same company makes a monster of a gun called Dragonian . Total length comes to 165cm , takes a shaft measuring 180x8 and 4x16 bands . I know that the newer versions have been tested with 5 and 6 bands and shafts measuring up to 10mm . Targeted prey are 30 and 50 kilo amberjacks and up to 200kg Tuna . Make is Mythicon.gr . Good testing
I don't have those big Mythicon guns ... but I think you cannot get good performance if you use only 8mm shaft. You need heavier shafts so that velocity can stay fast at extended distances. As for bands, am not familiar with the Dunlop bands, but I feel that the best bands are Primeline small ID bands.
Μy friend good morning . I would like to ask you an honest question . First of all respect to your videos . I appreciate all the time and money you spent into testing . I would like to ask you this ... Do you believe that pool testing comes close to shooting an actual target at 20 or 25 or 30m deep ? Do you believe you would get the same results ? is oceaborn 125 comes with 4 x 16mm bands and you test it with 2 x 14 or 2 x 14.5 id ... Have you thought of the loss of power to the elastic bands due to depth and sea water pressure ? I also saw the new abellan denton 120 using 15mm cressi scarlet @370% length with an 8 mm shaft . I wonder if it could cope with a 5m shot @ 25m depth . What are your thoughts and comments ? Keep testing
To be honest, I really don't know how much there is a change in band power at lower depths. I personally have never noticed it and shots at 25m seem to act the same as shots at 5m. Of course you need a more accurate way to test this as it is impossible to know for sure by just "feel". I will say something though, with the few friends I have that complained of no power at depth ... I noticed that they had water inside their bands. It is possible that at depth, the increase in pressure pushes water inside the band cavity. I always make sure that this does not happen by using the correct inserts that totally prevent water intrusion. It is possible that this is one reason why some people complain of lack of power at depth.
I agree with the précedent post. I made tests with many spearguns in a pool and in sea by 15 meters depth. The power difference is incredible. To resume for power, i have the same results at 4,5meters in 15 meters depth than at 6 meters in the pool. This does not not change that your vidéos are incredibles and very useful for every spearfishing man. Thank again and pardon my english.
Make sure that you use plastic or metal inserts when you tie your bands. You need to totally prevent water intrusion inside the band cavity. If you have not prevented water from getting into your bands then every time you go deep the pressure will act like a pump and push water in your bands. If that happens you lose a LOT of power.
Thank. I will try this... But i have also noticed this phenomen with bands with plastic rings. And in those bands, there is a little ball to prevent plastic rings slipping. Water cannot enter in the hole...
Majd, I’m a really fun of your videos and recently I bought the Abellan Albacore but it came with a hunt 8,5mm without barb...could you make a test using this speargun and slip tip Mori to see how much it changes trigger center shot? Thanks...
Yes a slip tip can dramatically alter your shot ... by as much as 2 feet or more at 5 meters!!! You can see a slip tip test I did a few years ago here ua-cam.com/video/oak-4U26Oo8/v-deo.html
Hi! 2 questions? Did you get the gun already with the Carbon skin or did you add that yourself? & Where do you buy all your bands and other accesories etc? Thank you!
Yes I added the CF skin myself. Was actually not so difficult as I used a CF sleeve. You can get sleeves at solarcomposites.com For the Albacore I think I used the 3" sleeve. For Primeline bands I use spearitco, bethicoceansports, spearamerica, redtide ... plus a couple other places. Always go for small ID bands rather than regular ID. Not sure why but they perform better.
You can get Primeline small ID bands in many different colors. Sigalsub and Cressi new small ID bands are all made by Primeline. You can contact Benthicocean sports as they have a new batch of small ID bands at around 15mm. Those would be very good for heavier 8mm and 8.5mm shafts.
Majd, When I tried to put the ermes double roll on the the Albacore (same originals hole) I lost 1cm of bandstretch, witch is irrisory, did it happened to you too?
It depends which Double Roller Trigger you use and where you install it. I used the Long DR trigger so I actually gained about 1.5cm over the old Abellan Trigger. I am guessing you used the short trigger which is about 1.7cm shorter the the Long DR. But to be honest the short trigger is much easier to install as if you install the long trigger and use the front wing holes you will end up having to carve out a place for your trigger inside your handle.
Oh absolutely! I have changed all my triggers on my Abellans. This is a huge upgrade, especially if you have the newer wider Abellan trigger which I think should not be used with more than 2 band load as the box will deform (it is only 1.5mm). The way the shaft comes out of the DR trigger is super smooth as it does not have to go over the shaft sear notch ... the back roller just drops down and the shaft comes out super stable. This alone more than compensates for the .7mm loss in band stretch as a more stable shaft will shed less velocity and give you more accuracy. There is a new DR trigger that is specifically made for the Abellan and has a different front trigger sear that allows for a very simple change out with the short trigger, and maybe a little more work for the Long DR trigger (but still much less work than the normal DR trigger). I would think you could do the upgrade with about 15 minutes work ...I highly recommend that trigger. I will be putting up a video of such an upgrade soon.
If the tiny loss in band stretch bothers you, all you have to do is move the trigger back (with the new Abellan trigger sear extension) about 1cm. This would require a lot more work as you would have to cut out new placements for the two arms and a new hole for the back and maybe even cut out some space to move the trigger back. Not worth it IMHO. With the DR trigger designed for the Abellan the switch out is a very simple change.
I think for a 7mm shaft the maximum length you should use is about 150cm. For 7.5mm and 8mm around 160cm ... anything larger you should start going into 8.5mm and 9mm diameters. This is to prevent shaft whip as shaft whip oscillates your shaft and destroys velocity very quickly.
Hello my friend!Great videos keep going! I have a pathos 90 open pro speargun with the plastic trigger.You can tell me a good set up for this speargun?I use it for seabasses mullets and other fishes
I would use a 6.75mm or 7mm shaft @ 125cm from Sporasub and put 2 x 14mm small ID Primeline bands cut @ 360% and tie some Head Fibergel 1.3mm line as shooting line. You cannot miss a fish at 5m from tip of shaft to target.
LOL !!!... yes have heard that MANY times! No children or animals hurt during the test and NO COMPUTER GRAPHICS USED !!! What you see is what you can expect to get ;)
1st Thank you for your work ! I have 2 abellan denton and i love it. But i wan't to say what do you think about roller gun ? In Europe there is very and more and more famous !! Thank you So much
I didn't have much luck with roller guns. I do think invert rollers are much better than standard rollers, but there is a fundamental problem which causes the shaft to shoot low and dive. Until that is fixed I feel classic guns are much better. Also rollers take a long time to load and have many moving parts, I like simple and fast for hunting. If roller guns improve and are able to perform on a similar level to a good classic setup then I might be interested again ... but they have to shoot flat ... I mean here in this video the shaft drop all the way to 8 meters is only 2 inches. That is very very impressive!
thanks so much for sharing Majd - so much good advice here! one question - is there a specific reason you used the 170 shaft, given the flopper clearance allows 160 shaft to be used - is that additional 10cm shaft length necessary to achieve the 8 metre accuracy and/or penetration? thanks!
A 160cm shaft would have the flopper sit on the track ... something I don't like as it puts the shaft higher than the track at the tip. The flopper on the Devotosub is quite long (I think 8cm). I would have preferred a 165cm shaft ... but those are hard to come by. The only reason I used a 170cm instead was because shafts are usually done in 10cm increments. A 5cm shaft would probably have kept shots higher by about 2 cm.
Interpreting your results for custom build on 8.5mm Hunt floppered shaft available lengths, do you think ~126 stock and 160 shaft, or ~136 stock and 170 shaft best solution without losing sweet spot of test rig? once again thanks for all your advice Majd!
Well ... I believe in making a gun around the shaft ... so if using a 170cm shaft the ideal size would be an Albacore 136 ;). This would still keep about 2 cm before muzzle reaches the flopper and it would be the perfect shaft overhang.
I know, it may sound greedy, but I'd like to see it @ 9m or more up until the first mark it actually fails to penetrate and drops in accuracy. So one would actually know were to start to beat the results. I don't believe you would not check this, or may be you just did not want to leave a bad taste in your mouth and remain with impressive results. Nevertheless, the test up to @8 meters is history now! Great job! Thanks again.
Maybe in the future ... but we are reaching the end of 3 wraps! Already with 3 wraps you need to be very careful how you wrap your line to avoid band tangles. Also I probably need a different target for 7 and 8 meters ... I had a very difficult time making out the "T" from that distance!
hey mate thanks for the great reviews so helpful, would you possibly do one on an omer cayman hf camu 110, or do you have any prior knowledge regarding these guns, i have one and love it but was wanting a second opinion. Cheers.
The Omer cayman are nice guns but really haven't put one through the testing mill. For pipe guns I use mainly Pathos guns as I have a good system where I can modify the trigger to a much more powerful configuration than default. If I would use the Omer pipe guns I would need to do all that work for the Omer trigger as I don't think it can handle high loads.
hello sir.. very inspiring video sir. I'm watching all Your video sir. what is the exact length of shaft overhang sir? now I'm using 6.5mm & 8mm shaft..
You always want to reduce the shaft overhang as much as possible. I like a shaft overhang where the flopper end is just 2 or 3 cm after the end of the muzzle. Long overhang makes the gun shoot lower and also increases the gun footprint without adding any benefit. For 6.5mm shafts make sure you don't go over 130 or of shaft length as that can cause shaft whip.
Amazing test and amazing gun!!! I need one of its to hunting peacock bass here in Brazil!!! uauhauahuah...Great video! I always learn a lot! Congratulations!
This gun for Tucunare ??? Hehe ... too much I think. I lived in Brazil 8 years and that was my favorite fish to catch ... but fishing not spearfishing!
I saw where a fan of yours asked what would be your ideal gun. You were testing setups with an Abellan 120, and you replied your ideal gun would be the one you were using for the tests with 10 cm more band stretch. Would this ideal gun be the Abellan 130? Thanks, Steve
Hello sir, I have seen all of your videos. Nowadays I'm going to buy the Albacore 130 and I want your opinion about the best setup I can get with it. I'm thinking modified handle with the ermessub Long DR reverse trigger, 3 x 14.5mm (1mm ID) Primeline @ 380%, Hunt shaft 8.5mm @ 165cm with pencil tip and cone, 1.2 SS coated cable as shooting line with 1.5mm dyneema on reel (yes, I want to put a reel). Is this indeed THE BEST setup I can have with this speargun? If I get a 8mm@165cm instead of 8.5mm@165cm shaft, it will have better results or not? Thanks for your time.
Sounds very good but the only thing I would change is the 1.2 SS coated cable ... I would go for the 1.4mm SS cable instead. The 1.2mm SS cable is very strong but it can sometimes snap during the shot. The other things you put are perfect ... but this setup is extremely powerful. If using 8mm shaft you could go with only 2 bands as the 3rd band doesn't add much power on the lighter shaft like it does with the 8.5mm shaft.
@@majdq8 I understood. So you would not change anything else about this setup? Also, has the ermessub a better trigger than this or is this the best that she has nowadays? Thanks.
@@johanjohn8051 Well ... I personally also love Carbon Fiber so I would want to have a CF skin on my gun. This makes it much stiffer and less prone to flexing at high loads. Not sure if it is necessary though.
@@johanjohn8051 I never use reel for bluewater ... always floatline and float for big fish. I don't trust myself to let go of my gun if I get spooled or if my reel jams!
So you speak potuguese???kkk...i was kidding....but i do some tests with mine too...they have 60cm....kkk..i spearfishing tucunaré e tilapia...have you ever spersished one oh them???its awesome.....by the way i need some help with my guns...could you give some hints????thanks!
hi my friend! i like your videos. i make a new brand of spearguns, "Mcr Spearguns", i maked my first speargun roller combinated anymore sistems, so, i want know if you can test my speargun in your pool, and gets your opinion about of, and real numbers. i think this speargun 115cm can gets penetration more 7 meters. but, anticipated, this is my more less powerfull project., i´m writing from Baja, Mexico.
You are a saint for uploading these videos for the public!
Благодарю за четкое видео!
Yes I just met Harry and tried the new handle. It is about perfect.
Would you know when may it be available?
I agree, the high thumb rest is critical. Current prototype has a ridge where the thumb needs to go. Not at all sure why they left this as is. Harry recommends cutting out a groove for the thumb to rest in. Apparently this will not be done on the new handles at production. It will be for the owner to do.
I should add that the new handle's primary modification is a 15 degree clockwise rotation about its central axis. This requires a new groove to be cut for your thumb to lay/ align properly.
I know they were working on something and have seen pix. I think if they rotate slightly and then add some padding to the right (for right hander) it will be perfect. Putting a high thumb rest allows your hand to go up even higher in the CG ... which is very good ... if your arm aligns with the recoil line then it should be perfect.
Yes I see this is a bulky, heavy gun for all-around use. I am hunting wahoo now in Key West and would give anything to have that 130 as you set it up...assuming the handle modification fits my smallish hand so as to place my forearm on the same line as the recoil force. Interestingly, as you note not much of a problem with rifles which is correct. Shotguns however have about 1/3 the m.v. Accordingly, stocks have been designed to align forces for over 200 years!
Like you I have many spearguns. I like the concept and application of an all- around gun because our local waters can present almost any opportunity at any time. However, it seems an Abellan Denton 130 for blue water and a 120 for all else might make sense, but I defer to your judgement. You mentioned in a separate reply to me than you would soon be testing the 120. I've seen your previous 120 tests, so I presume the gun you are going to test is a 2017 Abellan Denton 120?
Thanks for the valuable information. Your knowledge base is exceptional. So for this Rob Allen 150 ( 180 has 17cm overhang...will need to preserve about 10cm for slip tip slide ring) - I assume my best option is 7.5 x 175 or 180? I don't believe the sear will accept a larger diameter spear. At 7.5 x 180, what e.f. Do you think I can use without inducing shaft whip to an undesirable degree?
Dear Majd, another great Test!
I have the old Denton 120 which I prefer to use with the shorter original 140x8 and a Wong Supermagnum 65 for BWH which especially when used with two hands or put against my shoulder is very precise even over 5-6m. I wanted something in between the two and I have found a good offer on a second hand "new" Denton 120 wich has 10cm more of band stretch than the older model and a 160x8 shaft.
Would the new Denton 120 be an interesting addition besides the old 120 or would it be better getting a full price Albacore 130 with 160x8.5? From your test it seems that the albacore 130 may actually make my Wong redundant but if the new 120 is differnt enough I may find it easier to justify the expense. Many thanks and best regards
There is a huge difference between the Albacore 130 and the Denton 120 or Wong. The Albacore 130 is much heavier and is really designed for long range blue water hunting large pelagics. I can easily claim that the gun tested here is the most powerful gun I have ever tested. You won't see many spearguns that will get just 2 inches shaft drop at 8 meters ... that is just ridiculous. The Denton 120 is great for reef hunting and will be able to handle the occasional pelagic ... but at closer distances. The Denton 120 is best setup with a 7.5mm or 8mm shaft while the Albacore is best with an 8.5mm shaft.
Dear Majd,
many thanks for your reply. The results of your test are indeed fantastic, and I am considering buying the Albacore 130, especially if I can find a good used one.
While the Albacore seems to be extremely powerful and precise, the Wong SuperMagnum 65 is still a very good and reliable gun, straight out of the box, with a band lenght of 165cm and with a 172x8mm shaft even though you may need two hands to shoot it well.
To rephrase my question...in your opinion, having already an arsenal including the "old" Denton 120 and a BW gun, would the "new" Denton 120, which has 10cm longer band stretch and longer shaft fill a niche or there would be too much overlap with the other two guns?
The Wong cannot be compared to the Albacore. It is a mid handle that has a low handle and cannot be powered up ... even with low power it will shoot low due to muzzle flip. If you power it up you will completely lose control and accuracy goes out the window. As for the Denton 120, it comes setup with an 8mm shaft, but I feel a 7.5mm shaft is a better fit. The Denton 120 would need about 5 to 10 cm extra band stretch to push an 8mm shaft at very high velocities ... either that or a slightly shorter shaft at about 155cm.
Hi Majd, hope all is well. I was wondering if you had compared mono vs dyneema shooting line for the setup used in this test, and the impact in terms of shaft drop/penetration? 1000lbs spliced 2mm dyneema has served me well on the albacore 130 with 3x14.5 @ 370%, particularly on gnarly fish like dogtooth (basically something else is going to break before the dyneema does) - on the other hand, I've heard many times that dyneema fills up with water and therefore makes for a slower (and possibly slightly dropping) shot compared to say 500lbs mono. Have you had the chance to compare both? I see you ran this test with mono shooting line but I feel this set-up would be a tad "light" to go after dogthooth for instance or even big YFT. Would appreciate any insight/tip on this if you can. Thanks and be well!
YFT and DT are completely different fish and need different hardware. A 50kg DT can pull under a 35l float while a 100kg YFT cannot. Also DT tend to hang around reefs where they will get tangled deep and become impossible to collect or get eaten by sharks ... so you need specialized gear to keep them shallow. YFT usually are in deep water and you just let it get tired. For YFT even 300lb mono is enough in open water, unless there are sharks. With DT I would use 2 floats (one very shallow) and you really just need to try and get a good accurate stone shot. For DT, 1.6 to 1.8mm cable is a very good idea as it does not lose shaft velocity and drop your impact point. Cable is also immune from damage of shark teeth and sharp coral. I have a video testing an Albacore 130 with cable here ua-cam.com/video/0H_lDFHRPV4/v-deo.html
@@majdq8 Thank you Majd, the test with the cable is very impressive/helpful indeed! I was expecting much more signigicang shaft drop but there is barely any. Agreed that we're talking about 2 very different fish/fighting modes here. Is there a model/brand/distributor of coated cable you'd recommend? Also, on cable, are you using 1 sleeve, 2 sleeves, or you braid it? Really appreciate all your guidance, thanks again!
@@Jseb011 I use this site and rig with one crimp but sometimes I add a second crimp. With heavy shafts like 8.5mm or 9mm the cable performs almost like mono. catchalltackle.com/
@@majdq8 thank you very much
Beautiful job testing the 130. Here in Key West, I would likely load 1 band for reef fish of 8-20 pounds, 2 for big black grouper ( the 8.5mm shaft is ideal) , 3 for pelagics. Does the gun handle and maneuver well enough to be used muti- purpose as I described above?
This is too powerful to shoot into rocks ... you would need a jack hammer to get your shaft out. Maybe if you load 2 bands rather than 3 and put a 7.5mm shaft it would be ok.
I have both the albacore and Denton 120. With the 2-band Denton, i shot 25 ft - through a modest size reef fish then into rock reef. the 6mm threads holding my JBL rocktip snapped off! this happened twice then I had the shafts re-machined to 15/16" with new JBL rocktip and no problem with about 8 shots into rocks after hitting or missing some Calif sheepsheads, got 5 fish in an hour. (Got a striped marlin with my first shot of the Albacore :-)
Excellent point. I was going to shaft the gun 7.1mm x 180 threaded, which gives 17cm overhang for the slide ring to travel. Do you think a 7.5mm x
Another question...if I use a 170cm 7,7mm shaft on this speargun what config do you recommend?
Please do a rob allen tuna 100cm
Or just let me know what bands to put on it. Thanx
Hi Mate. I have a 120 wooden gun with a stainless sliptip 1650 8mm shaft. Only have two options of rubbers from the stores in nz. 14mm & 16mm. Would it be better to use 3x 14mm @ 360/380% or use 3x 16mm rubbers? Thank you
sorry shaft is 1600mm
Thank you for sharing your precious knowledge with us Majd. I'm thinking about geting a Denton 120. Do you recommend the old or new version for hunting 5-10kg pelagic fish on the reef?
I would wait and get the gun after they start producing it with the new modified handles. Unless of course you are willing to do the handle modification yourself (which is not too difficult). I do plan to test the Denton 120 soon and I have tested the 110 ... so I expect a little better performance. You can see the 110 being tested here (it was called the 120 before) ua-cam.com/video/C4a6M9kXz88/v-deo.html
Thanks. I am setting up a Rob Allen 150 for a friend, it comes with 2x87cm 16mm small I.d. bands with a pull length of 153cm, so stretch is 3.52. Would you expect this gun to perform better with a 2x14.5mm at e.f. 3.8 setup?
I don't think you can push that gun to 380% ... I would go around 330%. With a low handle you hurt performance when you push power up. You need to start with a low band stretch and observe how things are going as you go higher. If you go too high you will destabilize the shaft and reverse performance.
Bro, I'm buying an Abellan with Greekdiver. I've already have the old denton 120..do you recommend buying the new denton 120 or the albacore 130?
They are completely different guns power wise. The Ablacore is a huge step up in power and is designed for large fish in clear water. It gives you dramatically more power and flat shooting. It easily has the range to take on even the largest pelagics at 8 meters from tip of shaft ... it is the only gun I have tested that can do that. In a nutshell, it gives you about 2.5 meters of extra effective shooting range over the Abellan 120. If you hunt murky water, or have very good hunting skills that allow you to close that 2.5 meters ... or hunt in areas that fish let you get close ... then you don't need the Albacore.
majdq8 thanks
Very nice video can you do a test on the rob allen samburu carbon railgun i am not sure wether or not to buy it
In your opinion, how does the green Salvimar 14.5mm small I.d. compare to the Primeline of the same dimensions ?
By far the best bands are Primeline small ID bands ... nothing comes close. The new Cressi bands are made by Primeline.
Hi,when you test a alemanni double roller?
You mentioned you would be reviewing the Denton 120 soon. I've seen your reviews from previous years, and trying to buy one soon. Has there been a change in the model for 2017? I assume there has been or there would be nothing new to test....unless you have a new set and/or modifications. Thanks, Steve
The Denton 120 is just a little bit longer than the older Dentons. This is not like the much heavier Albacore but an extended version of the older Dentons. Obviously I modify the handle as I feel that improves things a lot ... but with the Abellan handle that is very easy to do. The newer guns seem like they will have different handles that might make a mod not necessary ... but really haven't seen or tried the new handles yet. Also the muzzle and trigger guard stainless steel is of a thicker stronger gauge ... but that doesn't add anything to performance.
I've just seen the new Albacore 130 you posted. Amazing review!
So, I suppose you won't uploading the review of the C4 Urukay 120, with all the modifications you said you did to the muzzle, and handle.
Can you please share what was actually the best and most powerful set up you recommend for the C4 uru 120 (with all the modifications of yours). Shaft mm and length (also what brand shaft), rubbers etc?
I believe we are a few of us that would be very happy hearing from you about that gun.
Thank you for the info!
Unfortunately I lost a lot of the footage of the C4 mod, but I might do it again as it will not take too much time. Problem with the C4 was the muzzle and the line wrap as well as the grip and the old trigger with polynesian style line release. I was able to get very good performance using an 8mm @ 160cm shaft and 3 x 14.5mm small ID bands.
majdq8 In order for me to change from the old to the new trigger, does it take any modification? Drilling etc?
majdq8 and also...according to your consideration, what causes bigger problem? The trigger or the muzzle (I understand that both of them caused problem but which one hurts performance most)?
Hi, I'm following. I'm curious to know about the "elastic percentage" setting for a 120 gun. Use 8x165 rod, 3-16 rob allen and 3 -14 rob Allen use. But i'm not convinced, i know how to shoot urukay 120. scarlet Cressi 15mm which elongation ???
The trigger thing I did not know, I have old version and new version with new sagola release, I used 3 14 with 8x165 rod excellent shots and stable, now I put 3 16 unstably and ineffective
An other little question : my denton 120 (2x15mm cressi scarlet pure- 8mm shaft - all original configuration) shoot little low, and my robalo 90 (2x14mm cressi brown - 7,5 mm - all orginal configuration) shoot little hight .... what do you think about this ?
Thank you again for youre work and youre passion
I think for both guns you should try 17-4 PH SS shafts such as the Hunt or Devotosub shafts. Also go for the new small ID bands as they give much better performance. The old Abellan guns had very soft shafts.
Do you know of a source in the US for 14.5-6 mm small id tubing? I can get Primeline 14 and 15, nothing in between.
Yes you can get it from spearitco.com or spearamerica.com or benthicoceansports.com ... probably many other places are also selling the small ID bands today. Check the diameters as they can vary from time to time. For 7mm and smaller shafts look for something around 14mm ... larger diameter shafts looks for something around 14.5mm
majdq8 Petros at SpearAmerica was most helpful.
helllo i have a pathos laser open carbon 100 what setup do u suggest for medium waters up to 15 meters and agguato techick i would go on 2 16 gorrila white bands with 7mm pathos shaft whats your thoughts??
I think you would do much better with 2 x 14mm small ID bands. Easier to load and much higher shaft velocity with less recoil ... this gets the shaft out very stable and thus better performance.
Hi, I'm following. I'm curious to know about the "elastic percentage" setting for a 120 gun. Use 8x165 rod, 3-16 rob allen and 3 -14 rob Allen use. But i'm not convinced, i know how to shoot urukay 120. scarlet Cressi 15mm which elongation ???
I use cressi 14mm brown (small id) instead of red 15mm. At an elongation factor of 365-375%, with a sigalsub 8mm 160cm, single bore shaft, i get amazing results. Eaaasily 6,5-7 meters EFFECTIVE range. But i did a small modification to the line release (i have the old one with the titanium trigger) in order for the shaft to have less traction with the line release, during the shot.
The best bands for the Urukay 120 are 14mm or 14.5mm small ID bands by Primeline. Cressi's new bands are made by Primeline and perform very similar to their normal bands. For 7mm shaft and thinner diameter, best is 2 x 14mm on the Urukay 120. For larger diameter shafts best is 2 x 14.5mm bands or even 3 x 14.5mm bands on the heaviest shaft. Cut length of bands should be 360% for the 7mm shaft and 370% to 380% on the larger diameter shafts. Of course on my Urukay 120 I have made major changes that have dramatically improved accuracy and performance. I changed the trigger, then changed how bands attack to the muzzle, and of course I made a custom handle that allows recoil to channel straight into my body rather to my thumb. Results are pretty amazing. Will try to make a video of this soon.
Yes ... change the trigger to line release on back ... the old line release was destabilizing shaft on exit and reducing velocity and accuracy. Also change the muzzle to a conventional wrap as that was also killing performance. Also a mod to the handle makes this a perfect package. On my modified Urukay 120 I can even shoot 8.5mm shafts with great power and accuracy with only 3 x 14.5mm bands.
is it possible to provide me some pictures with the above mentioned changes? (i assume it would be long time until you do a review and there are a lot of interest for the urukay)
mantzakosgeo@yahoo.gr if it is possible. Thank you majdq8
Be patient ;) I promise I will put up a comprehensive review as I have a lot of friends asking me for exactly what you are asking. I had it all sorted out last year but unfortunately lost most of my footage to a HDD crash. Also the gun I modified was "borrowed" by a friend and he seems to have "lost" it now :) I have a new Urukay 120 with a new trigger and will do the mod and put up all the procedure and test results soon.
Do you consider the Albacore 130 to be a better gun in terms of power and overall built, than a bleutec oceanborn 130-135 special edition (heavier and broader than the simple oceanborn). Both with their best set up as well!
I have only tried the OB 125 and OB 145 ... not familiar with the new OB special edition. The Albacore 130 with 3 bands and modified handle easily outperforms the OB 145 default setup in both accuracy and power (by a LOT). The OB 125 performs equal to the Denton 120 with 2 bands, but it has more power than the D 120 when you put 3 bands on. The OB guns are great guns with very good design ... but they need to do something about the handle shaping and palm to trigger distance. A few shots with the OB 145 and you really feel like you have had enough punishment for the day ... while I can shoot the Albacore 130 with modified handle at full power all day long (it actually is a fun gun to shoot!)
I have some data from a Rob Allen 140 I've tested. Shaft 7mm x 170, bands Primeline 14.3 OD 1.6mm i.d., e.f. 3.615 yields 78 cm bands. Testing has shown excellent accuracy at 6m. Mild recoil. To set up the 150 with 7mm x 180, I was going to use same tubing at 3.615 x (170/180) =3.4 e.f. Hence 88cm bands. Do you think my method of correcting the e.f. For shaft length is valid?
For 7mm shaft the 14.3mm bands @ 360% stretch is perfect. But you will suffer from shaft whip if you push the power up and try to reach Terminal Velocity. A 7mm @ 180cm shaft will swim like a noodle once you power it up. For 180cm shafts I like to use 8.5mm or even 9mm shafts.
Majd, where did you bought the devotosub 8,5mm 170cm shaft!?Thanks.
I bought directly from Devotosub website.
How do you take aim? I mean, do you align the shaft tip with the target or you use another reference point?.
Thanks
I line up the tip of the shaft with the target and between the bands.
Thanks a lot my friend
nice video as usuall bro...... have u ever tried mythicon spearguns? You should do a test of the Erevos
Edmund Alley yeahhh
fantastic video thank you so much for sharing. Absolutly love the idea behind the tuned handles and have started Incorporating the ideas in some of my builds. thank you again for sharing your wealth of knowledge. 👍👍
You are welcome ... correct handle is very important in keeping the shaft absolutely stable on exit of track ... this gives much better shaft flight and less loss in velocity ... which gives more power and more accuracy!
Have you heard when the new handles are supposed to be supplied with the new guns? That is very good news as I'm not as good at handle shaping as you!
I think in a few weeks. This would really make this gun perfect without any modifications. I think this is being done in the US by Harry who is the Abellan dealer there. His email is greekdiver5150 at gmail.
what width of line is? 2.2mm?
Another question, what was the point of testing at 5 and even 6 meters? Is there any particular reason that you had to recheck this already proven capabilities?
I like to know how my shaft is flying and how flat it is flying. Testing at different distances gives you a good idea of what the trajectory looks like. Another thing is many people will only see this one video and will not look at the other videos I put up.
I've been referred to the Trygon website and I see concepts there that seem directly opposed to your test data. First, that latex stretched to e.f. 3.5 will lose 20% of its " power" after stretched/ loaded for 30 minutes? Have you tested to confirm or refute this? As follows, trygon recommends a max e.f. Of only 3.1, and if more power is needed they use heavier tubing at same e.f. This seems in direct opposition to your test data. Any thoughts?
There is some power drop on loaded bands with time, this depends on temperature and rubber hardness and can be anywhere from 5% to 20%. What I do is I overpower the gun by 20% over its terminal velocity. This way I know that the shot will never be affected even after a long wait.
I recently did a power drop test on the small ID bands. Not much power is lost after all! At least not with the 45 minute soak time I used ... so maybe it is a myth. You can see the test here ua-cam.com/video/H-mTmi6dlkM/v-deo.html
Nice video! What is the draw length (from band holes to shark fin)?
142cm band stretch on the furthest band.
Also if you ever get a chance try testing the Mythicon Erevos . 120 full carbon monoblock . Bends stretch to 136cm and comes with 3 x 16 bands by dunlop and shaft 160 x 7,5 or 160 x 8.0 mm . Same company makes a monster of a gun called Dragonian . Total length comes to 165cm , takes a shaft measuring 180x8 and 4x16 bands . I know that the newer versions have been tested with 5 and 6 bands and shafts measuring up to 10mm . Targeted prey are 30 and 50 kilo amberjacks and up to 200kg Tuna . Make is Mythicon.gr . Good testing
I don't have those big Mythicon guns ... but I think you cannot get good performance if you use only 8mm shaft. You need heavier shafts so that velocity can stay fast at extended distances. As for bands, am not familiar with the Dunlop bands, but I feel that the best bands are Primeline small ID bands.
Μy friend good morning . I would like to ask you an honest question . First of all respect to your videos . I appreciate all the time and money you spent into testing . I would like to ask you this ... Do you believe that pool testing comes close to shooting an actual target at 20 or 25 or 30m deep ? Do you believe you would get the same results ? is oceaborn 125 comes with 4 x 16mm bands and you test it with 2 x 14 or 2 x 14.5 id ... Have you thought of the loss of power to the elastic bands due to depth and sea water pressure ?
I also saw the new abellan denton 120 using 15mm cressi scarlet @370% length with an 8 mm shaft . I wonder if it could cope with a 5m shot @ 25m depth .
What are your thoughts and comments ? Keep testing
To be honest, I really don't know how much there is a change in band power at lower depths. I personally have never noticed it and shots at 25m seem to act the same as shots at 5m. Of course you need a more accurate way to test this as it is impossible to know for sure by just "feel". I will say something though, with the few friends I have that complained of no power at depth ... I noticed that they had water inside their bands. It is possible that at depth, the increase in pressure pushes water inside the band cavity. I always make sure that this does not happen by using the correct inserts that totally prevent water intrusion. It is possible that this is one reason why some people complain of lack of power at depth.
I agree with the précedent post. I made tests with many spearguns in a pool and in sea by 15 meters depth. The power difference is incredible. To resume for power, i have the same results at 4,5meters in 15 meters depth than at 6 meters in the pool. This does not not change that your vidéos are incredibles and very useful for every spearfishing man. Thank again and pardon my english.
Make sure that you use plastic or metal inserts when you tie your bands. You need to totally prevent water intrusion inside the band cavity. If you have not prevented water from getting into your bands then every time you go deep the pressure will act like a pump and push water in your bands. If that happens you lose a LOT of power.
Thank. I will try this... But i have also noticed this phenomen with bands with plastic rings. And in those bands, there is a little ball to prevent plastic rings slipping. Water cannot enter in the hole...
Majd, I’m a really fun of your videos and recently I bought the Abellan Albacore but it came with a hunt 8,5mm without barb...could you make a test using this speargun and slip tip Mori to see how much it changes trigger center shot? Thanks...
Yes a slip tip can dramatically alter your shot ... by as much as 2 feet or more at 5 meters!!! You can see a slip tip test I did a few years ago here ua-cam.com/video/oak-4U26Oo8/v-deo.html
majdq8 I saw all your videos 😬! But if could make a video using the abellan albacore 130 with Mori Slip Tip it will be fantastic...thanks
Hi! 2 questions?
Did you get the gun already with the Carbon skin or did you add that yourself?
&
Where do you buy all your bands and other accesories etc?
Thank you!
Yes I added the CF skin myself. Was actually not so difficult as I used a CF sleeve. You can get sleeves at solarcomposites.com For the Albacore I think I used the 3" sleeve. For Primeline bands I use spearitco, bethicoceansports, spearamerica, redtide ... plus a couple other places. Always go for small ID bands rather than regular ID. Not sure why but they perform better.
Thank you so much majdq8!
Because of this new video and I am hopefully going to be the owner of my very own Albacore 130 very soon ; ) !
Did you dye the bands yourself? All Primeline ID 14mm's I find are all in Black or Amber?
Sorry to be a pain!
You can get Primeline small ID bands in many different colors. Sigalsub and Cressi new small ID bands are all made by Primeline. You can contact Benthicocean sports as they have a new batch of small ID bands at around 15mm. Those would be very good for heavier 8mm and 8.5mm shafts.
No, they are available in several different colors.
Majd, When I tried to put the ermes double roll on the the Albacore (same originals hole) I lost 1cm of bandstretch, witch is irrisory, did it happened to you too?
It depends which Double Roller Trigger you use and where you install it. I used the Long DR trigger so I actually gained about 1.5cm over the old Abellan Trigger. I am guessing you used the short trigger which is about 1.7cm shorter the the Long DR. But to be honest the short trigger is much easier to install as if you install the long trigger and use the front wing holes you will end up having to carve out a place for your trigger inside your handle.
majdq8 Yes. My trigger is the short version...loose 1cm bandstretch...even losing that do you recommend using the trigger?
Oh absolutely! I have changed all my triggers on my Abellans. This is a huge upgrade, especially if you have the newer wider Abellan trigger which I think should not be used with more than 2 band load as the box will deform (it is only 1.5mm). The way the shaft comes out of the DR trigger is super smooth as it does not have to go over the shaft sear notch ... the back roller just drops down and the shaft comes out super stable. This alone more than compensates for the .7mm loss in band stretch as a more stable shaft will shed less velocity and give you more accuracy. There is a new DR trigger that is specifically made for the Abellan and has a different front trigger sear that allows for a very simple change out with the short trigger, and maybe a little more work for the Long DR trigger (but still much less work than the normal DR trigger). I would think you could do the upgrade with about 15 minutes work ...I highly recommend that trigger. I will be putting up a video of such an upgrade soon.
majdq8 changed today! Thanks
If the tiny loss in band stretch bothers you, all you have to do is move the trigger back (with the new Abellan trigger sear extension) about 1cm. This would require a lot more work as you would have to cut out new placements for the two arms and a new hole for the back and maybe even cut out some space to move the trigger back. Not worth it IMHO. With the DR trigger designed for the Abellan the switch out is a very simple change.
Sorry...was asking if you thought 7.5mm x ( 175-190?) is likely to perform better than the 7mm setup?
I think for a 7mm shaft the maximum length you should use is about 150cm. For 7.5mm and 8mm around 160cm ... anything larger you should start going into 8.5mm and 9mm diameters. This is to prevent shaft whip as shaft whip oscillates your shaft and destroys velocity very quickly.
Hello my friend!Great videos keep going! I have a pathos 90 open pro speargun with the plastic trigger.You can tell me a good set up for this speargun?I use it for seabasses mullets and other fishes
I would use a 6.75mm or 7mm shaft @ 125cm from Sporasub and put 2 x 14mm small ID Primeline bands cut @ 360% and tie some Head Fibergel 1.3mm line as shooting line. You cannot miss a fish at 5m from tip of shaft to target.
+majdq8 Ok bro thank you very much!
Hi there!
Wich rubber do you use?
Thanks fo good vew!
Those were 14.7mm Primeline small ID bands.
@@majdq8 thanks!
Making 90 cm the gun like that
NICE CGI! What kinda software do you use to edit these shots?! ;)
LOL !!!... yes have heard that MANY times! No children or animals hurt during the test and NO COMPUTER GRAPHICS USED !!! What you see is what you can expect to get ;)
1st Thank you for your work ! I have 2 abellan denton and i love it. But i wan't to say what do you think about roller gun ? In Europe there is very and more and more famous !! Thank you So much
I didn't have much luck with roller guns. I do think invert rollers are much better than standard rollers, but there is a fundamental problem which causes the shaft to shoot low and dive. Until that is fixed I feel classic guns are much better. Also rollers take a long time to load and have many moving parts, I like simple and fast for hunting. If roller guns improve and are able to perform on a similar level to a good classic setup then I might be interested again ... but they have to shoot flat ... I mean here in this video the shaft drop all the way to 8 meters is only 2 inches. That is very very impressive!
thank you so much for youre answer. me to i like simple gun for the rusticity. thank you again for youre work and youre sympathy
Thanks
thanks so much for sharing Majd - so much good advice here!
one question - is there a specific reason you used the 170 shaft, given the flopper clearance allows 160 shaft to be used - is that additional 10cm shaft length necessary to achieve the 8 metre accuracy and/or penetration? thanks!
A 160cm shaft would have the flopper sit on the track ... something I don't like as it puts the shaft higher than the track at the tip. The flopper on the Devotosub is quite long (I think 8cm). I would have preferred a 165cm shaft ... but those are hard to come by. The only reason I used a 170cm instead was because shafts are usually done in 10cm increments. A 5cm shaft would probably have kept shots higher by about 2 cm.
Sorry I meant a 5cm shorter shaft.
thanks!
Interpreting your results for custom build on 8.5mm Hunt floppered shaft available lengths, do you think ~126 stock and 160 shaft, or ~136 stock and 170 shaft best solution without losing sweet spot of test rig? once again thanks for all your advice Majd!
Well ... I believe in making a gun around the shaft ... so if using a 170cm shaft the ideal size would be an Albacore 136 ;). This would still keep about 2 cm before muzzle reaches the flopper and it would be the perfect shaft overhang.
I know, it may sound greedy, but I'd like to see it @ 9m or more up until the first mark it actually fails to penetrate and drops in accuracy. So one would actually know were to start to beat the results. I don't believe you would not check this, or may be you just did not want to leave a bad taste in your mouth and remain with impressive results. Nevertheless, the test up to @8 meters is history now! Great job! Thanks again.
Maybe in the future ... but we are reaching the end of 3 wraps! Already with 3 wraps you need to be very careful how you wrap your line to avoid band tangles. Also I probably need a different target for 7 and 8 meters ... I had a very difficult time making out the "T" from that distance!
Crazy gun 👍👍👍
Hey, very nice, I like Your videos! Nice gun, but quite a strong recoil, huh?
hey mate thanks for the great reviews so helpful, would you possibly do one on an omer cayman hf camu 110, or do you have any prior knowledge regarding these guns, i have one and love it but was wanting a second opinion. Cheers.
The Omer cayman are nice guns but really haven't put one through the testing mill. For pipe guns I use mainly Pathos guns as I have a good system where I can modify the trigger to a much more powerful configuration than default. If I would use the Omer pipe guns I would need to do all that work for the Omer trigger as I don't think it can handle high loads.
ok cheers
hello sir.. very inspiring video sir. I'm watching all Your video sir. what is the exact length of shaft overhang sir? now I'm using 6.5mm & 8mm shaft..
You always want to reduce the shaft overhang as much as possible. I like a shaft overhang where the flopper end is just 2 or 3 cm after the end of the muzzle. Long overhang makes the gun shoot lower and also increases the gun footprint without adding any benefit. For 6.5mm shafts make sure you don't go over 130 or of shaft length as that can cause shaft whip.
thank you very much sir..
Amazing test and amazing gun!!! I need one of its to hunting peacock bass here in Brazil!!! uauhauahuah...Great video! I always learn a lot! Congratulations!
This gun for Tucunare ??? Hehe ... too much I think. I lived in Brazil 8 years and that was my favorite fish to catch ... but fishing not spearfishing!
great video majdq8
I saw where a fan of yours asked what would be your ideal gun. You were testing setups with an Abellan 120, and you replied your ideal gun would be the one you were using for the tests with 10 cm more band stretch. Would this ideal gun be the Abellan 130? Thanks, Steve
Denton 120 is a much lighter gun and I should have a review of it soon. It still hasn't touched water yet but I think it will perform well.
Sold
Hello sir, I have seen all of your videos. Nowadays I'm going to buy the Albacore 130 and I want your opinion about the best setup I can get with it. I'm thinking modified handle with the ermessub Long DR reverse trigger, 3 x 14.5mm (1mm ID) Primeline @ 380%, Hunt shaft 8.5mm @ 165cm with pencil tip and cone, 1.2 SS coated cable as shooting line with 1.5mm dyneema on reel (yes, I want to put a reel). Is this indeed THE BEST setup I can have with this speargun? If I get a 8mm@165cm instead of 8.5mm@165cm shaft, it will have better results or not? Thanks for your time.
Sounds very good but the only thing I would change is the 1.2 SS coated cable ... I would go for the 1.4mm SS cable instead. The 1.2mm SS cable is very strong but it can sometimes snap during the shot. The other things you put are perfect ... but this setup is extremely powerful. If using 8mm shaft you could go with only 2 bands as the 3rd band doesn't add much power on the lighter shaft like it does with the 8.5mm shaft.
@@majdq8 I understood. So you would not change anything else about this setup? Also, has the ermessub a better trigger than this or is this the best that she has nowadays? Thanks.
@@johanjohn8051 Well ... I personally also love Carbon Fiber so I would want to have a CF skin on my gun. This makes it much stiffer and less prone to flexing at high loads. Not sure if it is necessary though.
@@majdq8 1.5mm on reel is enough for bluewater fishing or it must be 2mm plus..?
@@johanjohn8051 I never use reel for bluewater ... always floatline and float for big fish. I don't trust myself to let go of my gun if I get spooled or if my reel jams!
So you speak potuguese???kkk...i was kidding....but i do some tests with mine too...they have 60cm....kkk..i spearfishing tucunaré e tilapia...have you ever spersished one oh them???its awesome.....by the way i need some help with my guns...could you give some hints????thanks!
hi my friend! i like your videos.
i make a new brand of spearguns, "Mcr Spearguns", i maked my first speargun roller combinated anymore sistems, so, i want know if you can test my speargun in your pool, and gets your opinion about of, and real numbers.
i think this speargun 115cm can gets penetration more 7 meters. but, anticipated, this is my more less powerfull project.,
i´m writing from Baja, Mexico.
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