Definitely have to agree with you that the speed of subs is a major sore point of mine in the game. I don’t think I’d mind it as much if the 25-30 knot speed was just when surfaced, but it annoys me to no end that you have a sub going fast enough underwater to overtake some battleships when historically subs were lucky if they had a max underwater speed that could match the cruising speed of a merchant ship.
When used near the battle fleet, Submarines in World War II were used a s forward screens to spot incoming fleets and were placed in approaches and departure routes to try to hit with a few torps. NO submarine until the 2501 series could approach 20 knots underwater. A few could break 20 knots on the surface, but not many. And don't get me started on homing torpedoes! You are right, Raptor . . . they have created submarines that can run with other ships. With the advantages they have in being able to submerge and hide, shot-gunning, etc. . . . no, just no.
GG. WG made subs completely un historical, as you said, to make them somewhat play like the other ships in the game. The same rational for the CV rework. I guess they had to because the subs are so slow they could do nothing useful as compared to the other ships they could not move. At realistic underwater speeds, except for the U2501 and U4501, they would effectively be stationary. People complain about 21/22 knot Amreican BBs imagine 19 knot subs (about the Type VII surface speed). A way WG could have mitigated that was to have them spawn out either in the middle of the map or in the opposing team's spawn area. But that dosen't fix the other problems. But WG did make a submerged sub easier to find and made the depthcharges much more effective. Otherwise it would take two DDs the whole match to sink one. (two, because you needed one to target the sub with sonar and the other to attack, and depthcharges required a speed fast enough so the depthcharges would not damage the ship dropping and their sonars did not work at that speed.) (hedgehog and squid fixed that) Hedgehog and Squid could be interesting in game, with a mechanic much like a very close range airstrike. But few ships that had them are in the game. There is Black Swan at tier one that was actually an ASW corvette. Some of the post war European DDs in the game have similar devices shown on the bows. Historically ASW didn't happen (to my knowledge) in surface combat actions. So the situation in game where you are trying to kill a sub while their team is shooting at you would not happen. USN subs, before the war, were intended to be assigned to the fleet as scouts and a screen, the reason they were refered to as 'fleet subs'. (21 knots is not fast, but faster than the crusing speeds of the old USN's BBs.) But Pearl Harbor completely changed the US and IJN battle plans for a decisive fleet battle. Something that the IJN DDs and CAs , and the torpedoes they carried, were designed almost exclusively. In CoOp I have trouble with bot subs surfacing under me when I am making a DC run, so I have to manage not to go over them. But I didn't understand the damage radius of in game DCs and would try to get too close. The effective range of depthcharges might be a subject for one of your "How to Play" videos, if subs are enough of a problem to be worth it. Opps! that ran a bit long, sorry. Happy New Year!
You can customise side panels to show detection range. This is a must have when playing dds 😊. Your survival will not depend on the chat answers then 😂
@@SeaRaptor I don't know if that has changed or not, but that mod also considers the actual captain skill on the enemy dd. That could be 700m difference for the same ship. And that knowledge could be crucial.
It is all littoral combat. By necessity. You don’t have three days to hunt the Bismarck in the open water environment battleships (or most submarines) were designed for. The real-world function of battleships, and most other classes, in this environment was shore bombardment, which they did very well, particularly in the Pacific. The main problem with submarines in WoWS is that their operation is so wildly divergent from actual real-world capabilities that fixing them is impossible. Carriers, to a lesser extent. The first time I saw a carrier launching planes into a cliff while backing down I knew that things were not going well for the virtual surface warfare fleet.
Just to add to the subs rant. Currently in this game if you're a dd at the beginning of the match, cruising forward to a nearest cap and then an enemy sub popped up in your spotting range - the only reasonable thing you can do is turn around and run. Why? Because you can't catch the sub as it retreats back to its team and you're going to die chasing it. This is so illogical. Subs should fear dds as fire. The only time when dd can take on sub if it is alone and overextended (means noob player). Honestly, I don't know how that can be fixed. At least we will have CVs rework. But again, instead of just minimap spotting like Lesta is doing, WG creates a dozen crazy changes....
Definitely have to agree with you that the speed of subs is a major sore point of mine in the game. I don’t think I’d mind it as much if the 25-30 knot speed was just when surfaced, but it annoys me to no end that you have a sub going fast enough underwater to overtake some battleships when historically subs were lucky if they had a max underwater speed that could match the cruising speed of a merchant ship.
Love the Fletcher. Thanks for the vid!
Thanks for watching!
When used near the battle fleet, Submarines in World War II were used a s forward screens to spot incoming fleets and were placed in approaches and departure routes to try to hit with a few torps. NO submarine until the 2501 series could approach 20 knots underwater. A few could break 20 knots on the surface, but not many. And don't get me started on homing torpedoes!
You are right, Raptor . . . they have created submarines that can run with other ships. With the advantages they have in being able to submerge and hide, shot-gunning, etc. . . . no, just no.
GG. WG made subs completely un historical, as you said, to make them somewhat play like the other ships in the game. The same rational for the CV rework. I guess they had to because the subs are so slow they could do nothing useful as compared to the other ships they could not move. At realistic underwater speeds, except for the U2501 and U4501, they would effectively be stationary. People complain about 21/22 knot Amreican BBs imagine 19 knot subs (about the Type VII surface speed). A way WG could have mitigated that was to have them spawn out either in the middle of the map or in the opposing team's spawn area. But that dosen't fix the other problems.
But WG did make a submerged sub easier to find and made the depthcharges much more effective. Otherwise it would take two DDs the whole match to sink one. (two, because you needed one to target the sub with sonar and the other to attack, and depthcharges required a speed fast enough so the depthcharges would not damage the ship dropping and their sonars did not work at that speed.) (hedgehog and squid fixed that)
Hedgehog and Squid could be interesting in game, with a mechanic much like a very close range airstrike. But few ships that had them are in the game. There is Black Swan at tier one that was actually an ASW corvette. Some of the post war European DDs in the game have similar devices shown on the bows.
Historically ASW didn't happen (to my knowledge) in surface combat actions. So the situation in game where you are trying to kill a sub while their team is shooting at you would not happen.
USN subs, before the war, were intended to be assigned to the fleet as scouts and a screen, the reason they were refered to as 'fleet subs'. (21 knots is not fast, but faster than the crusing speeds of the old USN's BBs.) But Pearl Harbor completely changed the US and IJN battle plans for a decisive fleet battle. Something that the IJN DDs and CAs , and the torpedoes they carried, were designed almost exclusively.
In CoOp I have trouble with bot subs surfacing under me when I am making a DC run, so I have to manage not to go over them. But I didn't understand the damage radius of in game DCs and would try to get too close. The effective range of depthcharges might be a subject for one of your "How to Play" videos, if subs are enough of a problem to be worth it.
Opps! that ran a bit long, sorry.
Happy New Year!
A more in-depth exploration of depth charges might be a really good idea, actually.
You can customise side panels to show detection range. This is a must have when playing dds 😊. Your survival will not depend on the chat answers then 😂
Yeah, I used to know them all by memory, but there's simply too many to keep up with these days.
@@SeaRaptor I don't know if that has changed or not, but that mod also considers the actual captain skill on the enemy dd. That could be 700m difference for the same ship. And that knowledge could be crucial.
It is all littoral combat. By necessity. You don’t have three days to hunt the Bismarck in the open water environment battleships (or most submarines) were designed for. The real-world function of battleships, and most other classes, in this environment was shore bombardment, which they did very well, particularly in the Pacific.
The main problem with submarines in WoWS is that their operation is so wildly divergent from actual real-world capabilities that fixing them is impossible. Carriers, to a lesser extent. The first time I saw a carrier launching planes into a cliff while backing down I knew that things were not going well for the virtual surface warfare fleet.
Just to add to the subs rant. Currently in this game if you're a dd at the beginning of the match, cruising forward to a nearest cap and then an enemy sub popped up in your spotting range - the only reasonable thing you can do is turn around and run. Why? Because you can't catch the sub as it retreats back to its team and you're going to die chasing it. This is so illogical. Subs should fear dds as fire. The only time when dd can take on sub if it is alone and overextended (means noob player).
Honestly, I don't know how that can be fixed.
At least we will have CVs rework. But again, instead of just minimap spotting like Lesta is doing, WG creates a dozen crazy changes....