@@roderickowersii6104No hydraulic brakes. Cable brakes that had to be carefully adjusted on each wheel to get even braking. That's terrifying enough right there.
@@johnchandler1687 No, they had hydraulic brakes, they were one of the 1st cars to have them (I think it's mentioned in the video). What concerns me is the suspension, tires and Edwardian aerodynamics.
Just as an historical footnote, all Duesenbergs were built in 1928 and 1929. But because of the depression, it took ten years to sell them all, so whatever year a car was sold in, then that was the model year for that particular car. If a car was sold in 1932, then that was a 1932 model, even though it was built in 1928.
@@dazaspc they only built the chassis, the bodies are custom built as per the customer's specs by coach builders. So what I said is a fact. Do a little research, before you tell somebody they are wrong. Duesenberg only built the chassis, and they were all built in 1928 and 1929.
@@dazaspc the serial number, or VIN is recorded on the title. That is the car. Similar to handguns. You buy a handgun frame with a serial number and that is the firearm, even though it has no barrel, no magazine, and is non-functional. Add different barrels, different grips, different accessories, etc, but it is still the same frame that was originally purchased. Some high end custom cars are still built that way today. When you buy the chassis/powertrain, you have title to the car, and the VIN is registered with the DMV, even though the car is not roadworthy until the body is installed. You are thinking of how most cars are built today as a complete functioning vehicle. But high end custom vehicles are not built like that. You get the title to the chassis, and you can do whatever you want after that. Back in those days, cars didn't have to meet emissions or safety standards, to be registered or insured.
Most of the chassis and UNsupercharged engines, yes, but the supercharged engines, NO. They were built in the early 30s, and adding a supercharger to a non-supercharged engine doesn't count. The supercharged engines was beefed up compared to the standard engine. That's why the unsupercharged engines that have had a supercharger added were very fragile.
@@Mbartel500 and I belive the engine options, but if you really want to see them up close come to auburn indiana where the auburn auto company was based though the dussys were built closer to indy, though the showroom and many of the design elements were still done up here at the head quarters, that is now the auburn cord and dussenburg museum, and behind it where the parts department was is the natmus museum is, and down by the auburn auction grounds for the famed laborday auction are across the interstate they have the early ford v8 museum, did you know the collector car auction industry fetching the prices they do today started in auburn as well that was one year part of a fundraiser for the acd festival where former employees of kruse auctions went on to start up mecum and barrett jackson that you sometimes see on tv, though one source says barrett jackson was founded before kruse was but local lore says they were a former employee of kruses, there is a cousin that with another group that does a smaller auction now on the same weekend the big one used to be held. did you also know the auburn auto company pionered front wheel drive, supercharging, and flip up headlights, in production cars and I think maybe power steering or power windows I heard, the front wheel drive and supercharging though in production cars was the result of things used in the indy 500 or things in racing from the era. there was also another car I belive 2-3 only were built the ssj that had 400 hp in an era when most cars were not even half that on hp
@@Stale_Mahoney You're correct. A Peugeot won the French Grand Prix in 1912 using an inline 4-cyl DOHC engine. Also, all Miller/Drake/Offenhauser engines that won the Indy 500 27 times between 1934 and into the 1970s were 4-cyl, DOHC, 4-valve per cylinder engines, Good engineering transcends time.
Check out Packard, Pierce-Arrow, and even La Salle. La Salle was actually a cheaper car, but had surprisingly good performance for its day. My grandfather had a 1936 straight 8 advertised at 105hp and a 1937 V8 advertised at 125hp. However, the top speed of the 1936 was 105mph bone stock. The top speed of the V8 was 110. That leads me to believe that both the straight 8 and V8 LaSalles were vastly underrated for power. My grandfather remembers cruising at 90mph at 60-70% throttle back in 1964 when he first bought his 36 "Sally". He said it had way more to go, but he didn't wanna push an old car. It was even old back then, and he was screaming past all the new 1963 and 1964 muscle cars.
Yeah idk if those are the exact years but that's true and duesenberg only sold you a chassis and running gear so it's really hard to say what some of them could really do top speed wise because some are swb and made lighter some are limos made with every luxury
@@LarcR The Model A and X cars were a completely different breed - smaller and with a MUCH smaller engine. Those 20s Duesies were a triumph of engineering, but the J and SJ were designed and built to be the Finest thing on wheels. The fastest thing on wheels as well.
This, especially in supercharged SJ form, was mostly a car of the 30s, as they were introduced in late 1928 as 29 models. The rest of them were sold in the 30s. Yes, sold. Most of the engines and chassis were made in 1928-29.
well... old days= gross horsepower now = net horsepower because reasons. tldr 265 hp then = 215-220 now. still completely awesome, but apples to apples.
Although interestingly the Doble steam cars could almost keep up with it. It would be wild to be in an era where at the top end of luxury you have both steam and gas powered cars.
A lot of people don't realize that in the 20s and 30s, gasoline was like 60 octane so you really had to keep compression ratios down low and retard the timing quite a bit in order to stop pre ignition or knocking. The power potential for them is far beyond what they're rated for.
In many areas, there was very little traffic, unlike today where there is nothing but traffic jams. Even a lowly Tin Lizzie can go a little over 40 MPH, which is way WAY faster than just sitting in traffic moving about 6 inches every 5 minutes.
You forgot to mention…it’s “road holding ability” wasn’t all that. In 1932, Fred Duesenberg was mortally injured behind the wheel of a SJ on a return trip from NYC to Indianapolis.
He crashed because he was trying to avoid a car that was in his lane, passing a slower car, and the reason he died was partly because he had weak lungs due to having pneumonia as a kid. Hardly the Duesy's fault.
The reason they had skinny tires is because in physics, the profile should not have an effect on grip, but does on friction - so designers thought skinny tires would provide the same grip but less friction. (this is taught in entry level college physics classes, with coefficient of friction being independent of surface area and weight being demonstrated with boxes on slopes letting go at the same time) However, tires deform and the coefficient of friction thereby varies with width of a tire, as wide tires deform less. This took some time for car designers to realise
The Duesenberg J engines were fabricated in a single batch by Lycoming in 1928 before the presentation of the car. Their maximum power on bench averaged 210-220 ch, not bad for 6,5 litre but not enough for E.L. Cord who elevated the power on the paper at 265 ch for publicity. The chassis nevertheless was rather heavy at 2000 kg without body. At the same time the Hispano-Suiza J12 had some 210 ch under the bonnet (thanks to a capacity of 9 litres) but was 500 kg lighter. The remaining J were later grafted of a centrifugal supercharger that could boost their power to 250 -260 ch (compare with the contemporary Bugatti Type 50 with 200 ch for 5 litres with supercharger).
Every Duesenberg was a custom built car. Including the engine. There were different pistons offering 3 different compression ratios, low standard and high compression. 3 different intake systems, single carb dual carb and supercharger. 3 different exhausts, single dual and multiple pipes for supercharged models. And the dual camshafts could be advanced and retarded to enhance cylinder filling at low or high speed, meaning you could get almost as much out of them as a full race cam. You could get anything from a creamy smooth, dead silent 165HP for a heavy town car or limousine, to a rip roaring 320HP supercharged short wheelbase roadster like the ones built for Gary Cooper and Clark Gable.
Always knew straight line fine , yet cornering , i wondered about , and i'm fairly sure braking was mechanical , yet to keep straight line , required fine 'tuning' had a 1935 Ford V8 ,its braking required regular loving (every few weeks,wind out front drums ,adjust rods ),and mtn roads forget it ,straight line fine ,not in this class, though
Yes the word existed before the car company but with many words in any language they get changed or used in a different context due to culture. To prove your point Webster’s online dictionary suggests that doozy is a derivative of daisy and began to be used in about 1916. A doozy is something extraordinary or one of a kind.The Duesenberg automobile gave the word a boost. These vehicles were known as duesies in the 1920s and 1930s.
A gorgeous Duesey.... with a really "Ugly low-style roof!" In my opinion, the low profile roof really is a huge "Mis-Match" on the gorgeous body..... Ted Schempp, Nashville
Imagine showing up at a car show in a Limited edition Lambo and having everyone ignore it because there is a near 100yr old luxury car (a Deusenberg) there.
You wouldn't. 225 HP (net) in a 5-6,000 pound body is slow. My 2000 slightly modded Buick supercharged GS has probably 250 HP and weighs only about 2/3 as much.
@@frequentlycynical642 If you had a typical 70s or 80s car, you DEFINITELY would get your ass kicked by a Duesy. Remember, it has a 425 or 429 cubic inch engine with NO SMOG CONTROLS, so it has more torque and runs properly, and torque is very important. It is what launches you.
@@jamesbosworth4191 You really don't understand engines or physics. Torque may help at the moment of launch, but if there's no HP (torque X speed), there's no acceleration. The displacement of the engine is only one consideration, and you are forgetting the terrible weight of the Duesy's.
@@frequentlycynical642 You can start out with the fact that the saying "It's a doozy" did not come from Deuseneberg cars, it was in use before the company even existed, the proof is in it's use in various books and newspaper articles that predate the automobile company. And there's plenty after that that's wrong also.
With many words in any language they get changed or used in a different context due to culture. To prove your point Webster’s online dictionary suggests that doozy is a derivative of daisy and began to be used in about 1916. A doozy is something extraordinary or one of a kind.The Duesenberg automobile gave the word a boost. These vehicles were known as duesies in the 1920s and 1930s.
Let's not forget that Auburn's were just behind the Duesenbergs, and costed slightly less. and Al Capone preferred his sixteen cylinder Cadillacs. I guess due to the fact that they were better armored, and had puncher resistance compartmental tire's.
119mph in one of those on 1930s roads would've been terrifying.
It would have been similar to driving 119 mph on a Louisiana road today.
@@roderickowersii6104 So, terrifying?
@@andyb1653 Exhilarating might be a better word for me personally, but I may be slightly demented.
@@roderickowersii6104No hydraulic brakes. Cable brakes that had to be carefully adjusted on each wheel to get even braking. That's terrifying enough right there.
@@johnchandler1687 No, they had hydraulic brakes, they were one of the 1st cars to have them (I think it's mentioned in the video). What concerns me is the suspension, tires and Edwardian aerodynamics.
Just as an historical footnote, all Duesenbergs were built in 1928 and 1929. But because of the depression, it took ten years to sell them all, so whatever year a car was sold in, then that was the model year for that particular car. If a car was sold in 1932, then that was a 1932 model, even though it was built in 1928.
@@dazaspc they only built the chassis, the bodies are custom built as per the customer's specs by coach builders. So what I said is a fact. Do a little research, before you tell somebody they are wrong. Duesenberg only built the chassis, and they were all built in 1928 and 1929.
@@dazaspc the serial number, or VIN is recorded on the title. That is the car. Similar to handguns. You buy a handgun frame with a serial number and that is the firearm, even though it has no barrel, no magazine, and is non-functional. Add different barrels, different grips, different accessories, etc, but it is still the same frame that was originally purchased. Some high end custom cars are still built that way today. When you buy the chassis/powertrain, you have title to the car, and the VIN is registered with the DMV, even though the car is not roadworthy until the body is installed. You are thinking of how most cars are built today as a complete functioning vehicle. But high end custom vehicles are not built like that. You get the title to the chassis, and you can do whatever you want after that. Back in those days, cars didn't have to meet emissions or safety standards, to be registered or insured.
Most of the chassis and UNsupercharged engines, yes, but the supercharged engines, NO. They were built in the early 30s, and adding a supercharger to a non-supercharged engine doesn't count. The supercharged engines was beefed up compared to the standard engine. That's why the unsupercharged engines that have had a supercharger added were very fragile.
@@Mbartel500 and I belive the engine options, but if you really want to see them up close come to auburn indiana where the auburn auto company was based though the dussys were built closer to indy, though the showroom and many of the design elements were still done up here at the head quarters, that is now the auburn cord and dussenburg museum, and behind it where the parts department was is the natmus museum is, and down by the auburn auction grounds for the famed laborday auction are across the interstate they have the early ford v8 museum, did you know the collector car auction industry fetching the prices they do today started in auburn as well that was one year part of a fundraiser for the acd festival where former employees of kruse auctions went on to start up mecum and barrett jackson that you sometimes see on tv, though one source says barrett jackson was founded before kruse was but local lore says they were a former employee of kruses, there is a cousin that with another group that does a smaller auction now on the same weekend the big one used to be held.
did you also know the auburn auto company pionered front wheel drive, supercharging, and flip up headlights, in production cars and I think maybe power steering or power windows I heard, the front wheel drive and supercharging though in production cars was the result of things used in the indy 500 or things in racing from the era.
there was also another car I belive 2-3 only were built the ssj that had 400 hp in an era when most cars were not even half that on hp
Impressive, dual camshafts, 4 valves per cylinder, supercharged... for that time!
if i dont remember to wrong i believe Peugeot used dual overhead in 1911 for one of their cars
@@Stale_Mahoney You're correct. A Peugeot won the French Grand Prix in 1912 using an inline 4-cyl DOHC engine. Also, all Miller/Drake/Offenhauser engines that won the Indy 500 27 times between 1934 and into the 1970s were 4-cyl, DOHC, 4-valve per cylinder engines, Good engineering transcends time.
Having one would be such a "chick magnet" even today.
I never had much time for 20’s and 30’s cars; till I saw the Duesenbergs and Cadillac V16s in the tin. They are absolutely magnificent.
Check out Packard, Pierce-Arrow, and even La Salle. La Salle was actually a cheaper car, but had surprisingly good performance for its day. My grandfather had a 1936 straight 8 advertised at 105hp and a 1937 V8 advertised at 125hp. However, the top speed of the 1936 was 105mph bone stock. The top speed of the V8 was 110. That leads me to believe that both the straight 8 and V8 LaSalles were vastly underrated for power. My grandfather remembers cruising at 90mph at 60-70% throttle back in 1964 when he first bought his 36 "Sally". He said it had way more to go, but he didn't wanna push an old car. It was even old back then, and he was screaming past all the new 1963 and 1964 muscle cars.
Pierce-Arrow, not Pace arrow. My mistake. You're looking for the 1920s supercar, not the motorhome lol
It's such a beautiful car
Masterpiece of Art.
Art on wheels, created by engineering.
You would never want to go 140 mph on those 1920s tires. And for that matter 1920s roads.
On the flip side, there were many areas with very very little traffic, where you COULD ring your car out.
I'm pretty sure that I just heard Jay Leno say that ALL of the Duesenbergs ever produced were made in 1928...
It just took 10 years to sell them.
Yeah idk if those are the exact years but that's true and duesenberg only sold you a chassis and running gear so it's really hard to say what some of them could really do top speed wise because some are swb and made lighter some are limos made with every luxury
@@cameronvandygriff7048
It might have been '27.
Most, but not all of them.
Maybe the J and SJ models were, but Duesenberg made their Model A cars as early as 1921. Model X in 1926 and 1927 preceded the Js.
@@LarcR The Model A and X cars were a completely different breed - smaller and with a MUCH smaller engine. Those 20s Duesies were a triumph of engineering, but the J and SJ were designed and built to be the Finest thing on wheels. The fastest thing on wheels as well.
Greatest American car of all time
This, especially in supercharged SJ form, was mostly a car of the 30s, as they were introduced in late 1928 as 29 models. The rest of them were sold in the 30s. Yes, sold. Most of the engines and chassis were made in 1928-29.
265 horsepower is still decent for an average road car today
Decent? It's highly above average, seeing how the average car has 115-140 HP.
@@MihaelTurina in the US the average is 180 - 200
well...
old days= gross horsepower
now = net horsepower
because reasons.
tldr 265 hp then = 215-220 now.
still completely awesome, but apples to apples.
@@markreibson7030 and then to think my ittybitty 1.5 150hp econobox is capapable of 140mph. But I do not want to try that on roads of that era.
@@MihaelTurina Now, yes, but in the 70s and 80s, 115 - 140 was about right.
Although interestingly the Doble steam cars could almost keep up with it. It would be wild to be in an era where at the top end of luxury you have both steam and gas powered cars.
The phrase is "it's a REAL Duesy"
I always heard it as, "It's a real Duesy!" and "What a Duesy!"
Probably one of America's greatest autos
A lot of people don't realize that in the 20s and 30s, gasoline was like 60 octane so you really had to keep compression ratios down low and retard the timing quite a bit in order to stop pre ignition or knocking. The power potential for them is far beyond what they're rated for.
In the 1930s although the USA had some reasonable roads you would be a brave person to do 140mph in any car
In many areas, there was very little traffic, unlike today where there is nothing but traffic jams. Even a lowly Tin Lizzie can go a little over 40 MPH, which is way WAY faster than just sitting in traffic moving about 6 inches every 5 minutes.
And the tires!
@@frequentlycynical642 A good reason not to go fast
Beautiful cars
You forgot to mention…it’s “road holding ability” wasn’t all that. In 1932, Fred Duesenberg was mortally injured behind the wheel of a SJ on a return trip from NYC to Indianapolis.
I think them skinny tires play a role in that .
@@robertcamble3543Right, but remember, until the 1960's, race cars had the same type of profile tires.
He crashed because he was trying to avoid a car that was in his lane, passing a slower car, and the reason he died was partly because he had weak lungs due to having pneumonia as a kid. Hardly the Duesy's fault.
Plus, we Americans, until the 90s, bought luxury cars to indulge, not for roadholding.
The reason they had skinny tires is because in physics, the profile should not have an effect on grip, but does on friction - so designers thought skinny tires would provide the same grip but less friction.
(this is taught in entry level college physics classes, with coefficient of friction being independent of surface area and weight being demonstrated with boxes on slopes letting go at the same time)
However, tires deform and the coefficient of friction thereby varies with width of a tire, as wide tires deform less.
This took some time for car designers to realise
The Duesenberg J engines were fabricated in a single batch by Lycoming in 1928 before the presentation of the car. Their maximum power on bench averaged 210-220 ch, not bad for 6,5 litre but not enough for E.L. Cord who elevated the power on the paper at 265 ch for publicity. The chassis nevertheless was rather heavy at 2000 kg without body. At the same time the Hispano-Suiza J12 had some 210 ch under the bonnet (thanks to a capacity of 9 litres) but was 500 kg lighter. The remaining J were later grafted of a centrifugal supercharger that could boost their power to 250 -260 ch (compare with the contemporary Bugatti Type 50 with 200 ch for 5 litres with supercharger).
What's ch?
Crank horsepower?
Every Duesenberg was a custom built car. Including the engine. There were different pistons offering 3 different compression ratios, low standard and high compression. 3 different intake systems, single carb dual carb and supercharger. 3 different exhausts, single dual and multiple pipes for supercharged models. And the dual camshafts could be advanced and retarded to enhance cylinder filling at low or high speed, meaning you could get almost as much out of them as a full race cam.
You could get anything from a creamy smooth, dead silent 165HP for a heavy town car or limousine, to a rip roaring 320HP supercharged short wheelbase roadster like the ones built for Gary Cooper and Clark Gable.
@@mrdanforth3744 The two SSJs, built exclusively for Gable and Cooper, were said to have closer to 400 hp.
The factory supercharged engines were built in the early 30s, maybe only 1930. And no, they were not identical to the unsupercharged engines.
Very informative, thank you 👍
My God these cars are beautiful!
This video was awesome, thanks 🙏🏻
Well done!
Always knew straight line fine , yet cornering , i wondered about , and i'm fairly sure braking was mechanical , yet to keep straight line , required fine 'tuning' had a 1935 Ford V8 ,its braking required regular loving (every few weeks,wind out front drums ,adjust rods ),and mtn roads forget it ,straight line fine ,not in this class, though
The speed level was gained by using aircraft technology to design the engine and transmission, a very novel approach for the 1920s
And what would that have been, specifically? Maybe four valves per cylinder. What else? And airplanes don't use transmissions.
@@frequentlycynical642 With those huge cylinder bores the engines probably would have benefited from dual independent ignition systems too.
He forgot Cruella DeVille, she loved her Duesy.
Further proof that modern cars are not that far removed from the old ones. We just keep reinventing the "wheel" over and over.
That is not where the term "It's a doozy" came from, it was in use before the Duesenberg car company existed.
Yes the word existed before the car company but with many words in any language they get changed or used in a different context due to culture. To prove your point Webster’s online dictionary suggests that doozy is a derivative of daisy and began to be used in about 1916. A doozy is something extraordinary or one of a kind.The Duesenberg automobile gave the word a boost. These vehicles were known as duesies in the 1920s and 1930s.
A gorgeous Duesey.... with a really "Ugly low-style roof!" In my opinion, the low profile roof really is a huge "Mis-Match" on the gorgeous body..... Ted Schempp, Nashville
Speak about the Packard too plz
Will do lol, thank you for the comment btw. I’ll try my best to get the Packard video done by this month
Such a contrast seeing a classy Duesenberg at a tacky Mecum auction.
Was this the same car that was on the movie Topper with Cary Grant ?
So, that's where Pontiac's Grand Prix got the designations J and SJ.
Now I know the rest of the story. Heh, heh, heh.
Paul Harvey, GOOD DAY!!
Imagine driving this full throttle and getting gapped by a Nissan Altima
Who cares? It might be slower than an Altima, but it's worth twenty of them.
pretty sure you can race a LMP2 car at Le Mans and still get gapped by a raging Altima driver who made a wrong turn onto the track
@@SeedemFeedemRobots Altimas really are both the Alpha and the Omega when it comes to getting cut off on the freeway
@@ItsDaJax But can I finance a Deuzenburg at 17% APR for 72 months???
Imagine showing up at a car show in a Limited edition Lambo and having everyone ignore it because there is a near 100yr old luxury car (a Deusenberg) there.
Just take a look at the modern BMW stable. We have fallen so far.
It was a slightly downsized locomotive, fast but not especially quick.
For a 5,000 lb. to 6,000 lb. car, it was VERY quick.
Whatever happened to the doble steam car?
See Jay Leno on that.
Very Good!... #13 ✝ {11-15-2023}
it's funny you kinda sound like Patrick Bateman
I didn't realize that Amish folks would be watching this video.
I’m sorry I don’t know what that means
See comment from invisableobserver and you will.
Ohhhh 😂😂😂 okay, you should have replied. I thought you were critiquing something in the video.
Imagine getting your ass kicked in a drag race by a 100 year old car
You wouldn't. 225 HP (net) in a 5-6,000 pound body is slow. My 2000 slightly modded Buick supercharged GS has probably 250 HP and weighs only about 2/3 as much.
@@frequentlycynical642 If you had a typical 70s or 80s car, you DEFINITELY would get your ass kicked by a Duesy. Remember, it has a 425 or 429 cubic inch engine with NO SMOG CONTROLS, so it has more torque and runs properly, and torque is very important. It is what launches you.
@@jamesbosworth4191 You really don't understand engines or physics. Torque may help at the moment of launch, but if there's no HP (torque X speed), there's no acceleration. The displacement of the engine is only one consideration, and you are forgetting the terrible weight of the Duesy's.
@@frequentlycynical642 Where did I say horsepower is not important???
So many inaccuracies.
Be specific. Otherwise you say nothing.
@@frequentlycynical642
You can start out with the fact that the saying "It's a doozy" did not come from Deuseneberg cars, it was in use before the company even existed, the proof is in it's use in various books and newspaper articles that predate the automobile company.
And there's plenty after that that's wrong also.
With many words in any language they get changed or used in a different context due to culture. To prove your point Webster’s online dictionary suggests that doozy is a derivative of daisy and began to be used in about 1916. A doozy is something extraordinary or one of a kind.The Duesenberg automobile gave the word a boost. These vehicles were known as duesies in the 1920s and 1930s.
Oggy
Clickbait
what makes it Clickbait?
@@lumemotive 6:02 minutes for something that could have been explain in 2 min. "How was this car..." Now really.
automobiles should have never been invented, they have ruined the world & destroyed many lives.
Let's not forget that Auburn's were just behind the Duesenbergs, and costed slightly less. and Al Capone preferred his sixteen cylinder Cadillacs. I guess due to the fact that they were better armored, and had puncher resistance compartmental tire's.