I can’t find the Reddit thread now but my understanding currently (from comments): Current implementations require each CPO to talk to each car maker to get it setup. This new system says the CPO and the car company only have to register with the “universal trust list”. Should make it a lot more seamless for cars and CPOs that support plug and charge. However, your XC40 (and my P2) do not support it, so we won’t get this. EVGo also doesn’t currently support this, just the less secure Autocharge+. Unless they (and the other CPOs) plan to push big software (or hardware) changes, and that guy knows some insider information, I would say he vastly over promised.
I was in Florence South Carolina two weekends ago and I charged at the Bucees location using the Mercedes charger for the very first time and it automatically started and billed me through Chargepoint. I did not expect that but it happened. And as it began communicating between the charger and my Blazer I noticed chargepoint alert popped up on my phone. I was then able to monitor the session on the Chargepoint app as I walked through Buc-ees to use the restroom and browse the store. Again, unexpected but much appreciated! It was expensive though.
The situation you describe of not getting your Tesla membership discount already applies to Rivian owners, since Rivian vehicles use some kind of P&C on the Tesla Supercharger network. (Though I have heard that Rivian and Tesla are working on the ability to link your Tesla Supercharger membership to your Rivian account. Maybe that is part of this "Universal P&C that is getting implemented next year.)
I am genuinely excited about the idea of universal plug and charge. Apps should never have been part of the payment solution. Completely unnecessary frustrating complexity. It should’ve just been a simple card payment from the beginning, until plug and charge got figured out.
Yep., the CPOs using AutoCharge+ will need to adopt Universal P&C to get any benefit. You aren't going to be able to use your EVgo Autocharge+ setup on any other CPO as part of this P&C. (Their solution is 100% proprietary.)
Thanks, Walter! The one thing I would want to know is who, specifically, holds my payment information. If your assessment is correct, then this would require only one current account with cached payment information.
That is my understanding. In the example I gave, for me that would be EVgo since that is who my car is registered with for Plug & Charge. However, until we see it in use, this is speculation.
It should be something that you, as the EV driver get to decide and control. Presumably you’d shop around based on your brand loyalty, reliability and security of the account, and of course shop by price offered which will now also be a possibility.
Thanks for doing a deep dive, Walter. I have an Ioniq6. I'm not sure if it even supports plug and charge because my UI says to call an 800# to get Plug n Charge, which I have not done. I charge at EA for free with the app. Since testing begins in 2025 for this, that makes sense. Yes, I wonder how our credit card is charged with no app. One article said we pay in the Cloud instead of an app. The same article did not list Hyundai as a participant. Maybe I would be charged through the Hyundai app, but I can't put my credit card info in the Hyundai app because it says I need Bluelink which I have, and right now, there is no need to put my credit card in the Hyundai app.
Such a great and informative video. If the others don't join the auto charge or Plug&Charge then the market will be avoiding these stations. because of the obvious added pain points.
My guess is that SAE is creating the "parent PKI" to allow CPOs to adopt Plug&Charge, ISO15118, without paying Hubject to use their PKI. (My understanding is that all CPOs/OEMs currently doing P&C are paying Hubject.)
Hm that would be cool if they can actually figure out the certificates. Hard to imagine Hyundai doing this properly on my Ioniq 5. I'm assuming I would need to go to a dealer to get the cert installed due to Hyundai's OTA limitations. Love the overconfidence that everyone will be able to just plug into anything and charge though 😅
Yes, I made a comment about my Ioniq6. The UI tells me to call an 800# to get pluncharge. The UI also says I need Bluelink to enter my credit card info to my UI, and I have Bluelink, so that's a non-starter.
Hmmm. Intriguing, Walter. I'm guessing that the "Certificate Trust List" will contain VIN numbers, linked to owners' accounts to pay for charges, pretty much what happens now at Superchargers. When you plug in, the DCFC software will check the VIN, start to charge, and then debit the costs from that owners' account…?
I can’t find the Reddit thread now but my understanding currently (from comments):
Current implementations require each CPO to talk to each car maker to get it setup. This new system says the CPO and the car company only have to register with the “universal trust list”.
Should make it a lot more seamless for cars and CPOs that support plug and charge. However, your XC40 (and my P2) do not support it, so we won’t get this. EVGo also doesn’t currently support this, just the less secure Autocharge+. Unless they (and the other CPOs) plan to push big software (or hardware) changes, and that guy knows some insider information, I would say he vastly over promised.
I think that is exactly what is happening. (And getting Hubject out of the loop of "extorting" CPOs and OEMs for use of their P&C PKI.)
It is a big change for sure, but I am thinking some of the CPOs may be slow to adopt.
@@thenetworkarchitectchannelas long as the best, most reliable networks support this, the others will be incentivized to follow.
Exactly what I want (we need). I hope this comes to fruition. Great job sir.
Thanks, it will be a game changer for EV adoption.
I was in Florence South Carolina two weekends ago and I charged at the Bucees location using the Mercedes charger for the very first time and it automatically started and billed me through Chargepoint. I did not expect that but it happened. And as it began communicating between the charger and my Blazer I noticed chargepoint alert popped up on my phone. I was then able to monitor the session on the Chargepoint app as I walked through Buc-ees to use the restroom and browse the store. Again, unexpected but much appreciated! It was expensive though.
We charged at Buc-ees in Florence SC last March. I think we tapped a credit card. Yes, it was nice.
Ah, cool. Maybe this bird will fly after all
The situation you describe of not getting your Tesla membership discount already applies to Rivian owners, since Rivian vehicles use some kind of P&C on the Tesla Supercharger network. (Though I have heard that Rivian and Tesla are working on the ability to link your Tesla Supercharger membership to your Rivian account. Maybe that is part of this "Universal P&C that is getting implemented next year.)
Hopefully. Thx 4 watching
I am genuinely excited about the idea of universal plug and charge. Apps should never have been part of the payment solution. Completely unnecessary frustrating complexity. It should’ve just been a simple card payment from the beginning, until plug and charge got figured out.
We like to tap a credit card also at certain CPOs. Easy.
AutoCharge+ and Plug & Charge are different beasts.
Yep., the CPOs using AutoCharge+ will need to adopt Universal P&C to get any benefit. You aren't going to be able to use your EVgo Autocharge+ setup on any other CPO as part of this P&C. (Their solution is 100% proprietary.)
Thanks, Walter! The one thing I would want to know is who, specifically, holds my payment information. If your assessment is correct, then this would require only one current account with cached payment information.
That is my understanding. In the example I gave, for me that would be EVgo since that is who my car is registered with for Plug & Charge. However, until we see it in use, this is speculation.
It should be something that you, as the EV driver get to decide and control. Presumably you’d shop around based on your brand loyalty, reliability and security of the account, and of course shop by price offered which will now also be a possibility.
Thanks for doing a deep dive, Walter. I have an Ioniq6. I'm not sure if it even supports plug and charge because my UI says to call an 800# to get Plug n Charge, which I have not done. I charge at EA for free with the app. Since testing begins in 2025 for this, that makes sense. Yes, I wonder how our credit card is charged with no app. One article said we pay in the Cloud instead of an app. The same article did not list Hyundai as a participant. Maybe I would be charged through the Hyundai app, but I can't put my credit card info in the Hyundai app because it says I need Bluelink which I have, and right now, there is no need to put my credit card in the Hyundai app.
Such a great and informative video. If the others don't join the auto charge or Plug&Charge then the market will be avoiding these stations. because of the obvious added pain points.
My guess is that SAE is creating the "parent PKI" to allow CPOs to adopt Plug&Charge, ISO15118, without paying Hubject to use their PKI. (My understanding is that all CPOs/OEMs currently doing P&C are paying Hubject.)
Thanks for the research and doing an episode on this Walter.
I was glad to. I did it for my own knowledge and was glad to put into a deck and share. Kinda cool stuff. Thx for watching.
You are correct. Once yhe car is registered on one network, it will be registered on all.
Hm that would be cool if they can actually figure out the certificates. Hard to imagine Hyundai doing this properly on my Ioniq 5. I'm assuming I would need to go to a dealer to get the cert installed due to Hyundai's OTA limitations. Love the overconfidence that everyone will be able to just plug into anything and charge though 😅
They recently kept my car overnight to do a software update for a recall for reference on how incredible Hyundai is at software.
Yes, I made a comment about my Ioniq6. The UI tells me to call an 800# to get pluncharge. The UI also says I need Bluelink to enter my credit card info to my UI, and I have Bluelink, so that's a non-starter.
Walter, nice review - Could this announcement lead to a re-invention of the CPO membership model that is not dependent on a particular branding?
I don't think so.
Hmmm. Intriguing, Walter. I'm guessing that the "Certificate Trust List" will contain VIN numbers, linked to owners' accounts to pay for charges, pretty much what happens now at Superchargers. When you plug in, the DCFC software will check the VIN, start to charge, and then debit the costs from that owners' account…?
No, as I understand the CTL will contain certs from participating CPOs, validating their auth request. Rather simple & elegant solution.
I wonder if this would work with third party processors like blue dot.
I believe so. Good point.