As a species we are evolving towards global "islands" of relative prosperity and power adjacent to vast swaths of the Earth that are deemed "expendable" EXCEPT for their resources. That dynamic portends horrors greater than colonialism ever imagined.
Side note on all this, electricity cannot replace fossil fuels as it stands today. I have a used electric car and I didn't get it thinking it was better for the environment. I was in a pretty bad position and I only got the car trying to solve my issues being isolated from jobs and stability. Car ownership keeps Americans in poverty and precarious positions for little benefit. But I notice a decent number of people still think electric cars are better for the environment. The technology can't be scaled up without environmental destruction, and the cars are substantially less powerful than oil-powered vehicles, so you have to waste a lot more resources to achieve the goal. I strongly believe Americans in particular need to adapt the infrastructure necessary to reduce car-use or live car-free. I'm from Minneapolis, Nate's home turf. I was car-free there my whole life and it was awesome. And rather than trying to replace fossil fuels with substandard alternatives, we should transition towards "oil minimalism". The super-organism has to go through rehab; we can't quit all at once or it's dangerous. I strongly believe if people band together in groups and begin finding ANY path to cutting down car/oil use, we will find the solutions we are looking for along the way. Partner with other people, form a carpool club, consolidate your time and resources.
I am happy to learn that the circle of listening to smarter and more eloquent people than me started with Nate Hagens than brought me to Vaclav Smil`s books and now brought me back to the Great Simplification pot casts from Nate Hagens. Enlighthning indeed! THANK YOU!
My heart is beatin' like a little bunny! Thank you Arthur for helping me finally understand why and how refining oil matters so much to the big picture! And Nate, thank you for consistently finding and bringing us the people who shed light on those specific areas critical to our problem-solving adventure. It feels like I'm sitting at a table watching you fit the puzzle pieces of eternity into place.
Eternity is too big a time frame if humans have only been around for 300,000 years out of 13.8 billion (and only two hundred years using oil as the primary source of energy) and with the universe continuing on for billions of years with or without us. But I did really love this conversation, too! It was clear as a bell.
problem-solving adventure. yes yes, try by all means.. and while your at it count your CO2 emissions? That is no adventure, it's real work and sacrifice. Nate Guru is great at simplifications inside his bubble, but has three bright lights burning through and through behind him... eternally you see. This cosmeticism works great for Woke Peoples of America
It is always good to hear Art's take on oil and Nate is a brilliant interviewer. I am an energy analyst and there was nothing new I learned from his answers about oil extraction and refining , consumption and distribution but few people outside of the energy field do. It is complicated with a lot of moving parts. Art's most important contribution to this discussion was his advice to cooperate. He condemned the aggression and stupidity of our media pundits and political leaders which have lead the world to this precipice. I will not name names but you know who they are and if they remain in power, the trajectory is obvious. Ted Williams said"life is hard but it is a lot harder if you are stupid." Stupid people make stupid mistakes and if we can't educate the so called leaders, our only hope is to educate our populace and hope for the best.
Nate Sir. Glad you and ur hair are part of my life. The guests are amazing. You have sparked me on a deep dive to seek out more information. Thank you again.
Thank you for this very interesting segment. I look forward to your next interview with Mr. Berman whose clarity and measured tone make it a real pleasure to learn from his expertise. I watch your podcast regularly and command you for thr quality of your contents. I spend a lot of time learning about our human predicament from both thr energy lens and climate change / ecology perspective. I started on that journey back in 2018 after reading the IPCC special report on + 1.5C of warming and it radically changed my perception of the future while setting in motion my need to dig much deeper into energy and climate topics. Your voice is amongst those i respect the most. Thank you for your work.
Thanks Nate and Art. I've been follow both of you for the past decade and appreciate having this discussion to pass on to people who ask me about these issues. Plus I learned some new stuff as well :)
our problem as a species is profane more than propane. 'Me fame' more then methane. Insane in the membrane becoming inhumane. Great podcast as always Nate. thank you
Great conversation but one major thing which I feel never gets the attention it deserves is that without the environment the economy does not exist. You know that Nate! We often speak about these topics as though paying attention to the climate is optional. Ditching fossil fuels may not appear to be feasible, however ignoring the climate is also not feasible. The score when it’s Fossil fuel economy vs Mother Nature: 0:1. Let’s not get to the end of that match!
Looks like Nate does want to upset his interviewes too much, but yes, at least one question like: if you have a magic wand to stay under the 1.5 degrees, what would be some of the solutions for the oil industry to work on?
Thanks guys! Very informational. Now when I "lubricate my bearings" with something "thick and pastey" I will understand how thankful I should be to oily characters far distant.
You might find this interesting, there are sunken world war II era ships that are corroding away at the bottom of the sea containing billions of gallons of oil.
This discussion has given me a totally new perspective on going green. I agree, this is a very complex problem that will not be solved in the near future. These conversations are so important.
Discussion is very correct, temperatures are not correct. Profane, butane are gaseous at atmospheric pressure. Propane is c3, butane is c4. This is recersed in discussion. A crude oil is characterised with a standard distillation curve. Heating is limited, because temperatures over 200 deg C results in thermal degradation. Arthur clearly very knowledgeable, but not a chemical background. Heavier fractioneel are cracked or hydrogenated to reach lower boiling component or shift C/H ratio. Heavy fractions have higher C/H ratio than low boiling fractions. Compare e.g. methane with hexane.
Hi Nate. I have a solution for fossil free asphalt. Biochar. We are laying the first N. American demonstration of "green asphalt" roadway in my ecovillage with our partner, Advanced Carbon Technology, in late 2023. One mile of pavement takes 300 tons of biochar, no fossil fuels, and sequesters 880 tons of CO2.
Danish toy manufacturer LEGO just gave up trying to find and use an eco-friendlier plastic for producing their little bricks out of - after trying literally hundreds of potential other types and varieties of ‘lower carbon’ plastics and polymers. Big Government is trying to take the kids toys away, but it just ain’t as simple as carving them all outta wood.
Gu6 lnows there's a prblem. But when environmentalists say get off fossil fuels he gets confused. These types, they always need o protect their class privileges. That's why they can't grasp ending fossil fuels.
Great conversation. Very informative. But I disagreed with some comments at the end. A windfall profits tax is not unreasonable or the viewpoint of people who haven’t thought deeply enough. Several European countries have enacted this tax in the past two years. It is especially appropriate, given that a trend toward monopolization began about 40 years ago, and has continued unabated.
The complex systems have to be unraveled gradually, but it's far from impossible, food production, and production in general can be moved closer to the users. Waste management, concepts of consumption are also far from optimal. We can instantly get information on the needs in an area, which just 50 years ago was a much harder task. There are many issues in global logistics, which greatly stem from the wealth distribution which amplifies the energy crisis.
The automobile was NOT invented in the United States (11:30). Stop trying to take the credit for everything. Benz invented the automobile in Stuttgart Germany.
Great overview of the energy system for us neophytes. Let's face it, folks. We need to invest in adaptation to climate change as well as renewables because there's no way we'll get to net zero by 2050.
Road are interesting but roads do predate cars and oil production. The predecessor of the asphalt road was gravel or dirt and on busier roads paving with bricks or stones. Horse drawn vehicles travelled at about 15 kph. Wheels without oil sourced material were wooden or metallic and did not make for a comfortable ride. It's no wonder railways quickly became popular in the 19th century being more comfortable and a lot faster.
If you use bio fuel wouldn't you need more fertilizer and crop expansion to produce it. So you need more fertilizer and where would you get that if it comes from oil now.
You use coal/coke, for steel production for two reasons. The heat for the smelting sure, but it also adds necessary carbon to pig iron, which will later create the oxygen content to superheat and burn that carbon off later on when producing mild steel, for construction. High carbon steel is basically files, razors, and some cutlery. It's far to brittle to use for infrastructure. So anyways, coal and steel exist together.
Another EV/oil connection is cobalt. Since the rise of EV's industries groups opposed to them fear monger artisanal mining of cobalt by children in Congo. This is comical in that refineries were and possibly still are the largest users of cobalt. Used to remove sulphur and possibly other contaminants. Great enlightening presentation, thanks
This is the best discussion on crude oil supply and refinement worldwide and what is produced out of a barrel of crude oil! Thanks to Nate in assisting Art, who is very informative, in helping discuss in layman's terms the complex topic of oil supply, refinement and refinement products and how the US fits into that overall complexity! Thanks to the both of you for this particular discussion. I would love for your both to have a discussion on "shale oil" and its refinement and the reasons to blend with heavier crude oil.
Technically container ships run on heavy oil which is the heavy material leftovers from distilling. Heavy rail transport is far more efficient at moving tons of goods per gallon of fuel. American heavy rail infrastructure has been neglected for decades.
@@jenpsakiscousin4589 True for mechanically driven ones. Some container ships use diesel-electric propulsion, which run on fuels closer to automotive diesel or fuel oil.
Nate, one of my favourite episodes to date, as ever, deep gratitude for sharing this knowledge with the word. I felt obliged to leave a comment. You both touched on the Haber-Bosch process but not by name, and there was a claim that the only reason that there are ~8billion on planet earth is because we learned to liquify air to harvest the nitrogen. Whilst it is true, from a historical perspective, it led to the 'green' revolution, it's important that more people become aware that plant life also has an answer for harvesting nitrogen from the air, and in a manner which requires very little human labour. Intelligent combinations of symbiotic and regenerative plant life can continue to feed the world in the absence of HB process. We've never managed it before on such a grand scale, because this information was not widely shared in the ways which are possible today, but it's possible (albeit with far less potential for automated mechanical harvesting) we can rely on nitrogen fixing plants (actually the bacteria that those plants attract in their root systems!) to provide all the nitrogen our crops need. Someone will surely respond, well what about the P&K from the NPK... well, there are soluiontions for that too... Sure, these techniques don't lend themselves well to mechanical sowing and harvesting equipment, more labour will be needed in our countrysides, but we don't have to starve, and let's face it, cities will be less attractive in the wake of energy shortages. Permaculture has many answers to our predicament. Times will be lean, and the age of abundance is over, sure, but we could probably support several billions more than we suspect if those practices become widespread. I hope you have a guest on soon who will cover regenerative agriculture.... wink wink. ;)
@@brianhawes3115 despite popular narrative that industrialisation was the cause of urbanisation, it was only sped up by technology, the revolution may not even have occured here in the UK if it were not for the land enclosures that forced needed factory workers (into terrible working/living conditions) into the hands of the (at the time) new capitalist classes. People need to be educated about the ramifications of enclosure and persecution of indigenous cultures. I hope Nate will have someone to discuss the roots of this issue sometime.
@@vexy1987 I saw a show Nate had were he has Vandana Shiva on, she’s great, also have a friend who’s been telling me to check out Korean natural farming
Great conversation, my history pedant hat has been firmly placed on my head by Arthur's statement that the motor car was invented in the USA. The germans want their creation back. Again great conversation keep up the good work.
Art is good within his area of training [refineries], but he tends to opine far out side that to woeful effect - for example, @ 33 mins et seq he wanders outside his expertise to opine on agriculture, and says fertilizer was indispensable to more food production and that lead to population growth from 2 billion c 1917 to todays 8 billion. Completely unsupported and frankly wrong - population was growing slowly with fertilizers. It then exploded exponentially not due to more fertilizers or food production or the industrial revolution but due to the exponential rate of population growth which is largely unaffected by birth rates and food supplies and we see this very clearly.
It is a health explosion. Also, we've probably reached peak population. I'm not at all convinced population reduction is not just Hitler's ideas in a different guise....
@20:35. Not sure I agree with that number 400 c. A refinery starts with a big asphalt unit and a big fractionator. Years ago I was responsible for a transmix fractionator at Conoco Phillips. This unit separated gasoline from #2 oil(diesel) that had become mixed in the pipelining of the product from Texas to Indiana. The basic parameters were as follows: Furnace outlet temp: 450+ F Tower bottoms temp 400+ F Tower tray #x temp(around 380+ ish) Heat exchanger inlet temp from the mix tank on a summer day: 60 F ish Heat exchanger outlet temp from the mix tank into the tower: 390+ F Tower pressure: 17 PSI. Can't remember which but either the asphalt unit or the fractionator in a refinery is a vacuum tower. So a lower temp is needed to get the boil so to speak. Looked it up and it is around 350 to 400 C so Art is referring to taking diesel out of the heavier components.
Immediate next thought is of how the US defence network interacts with this market (and are most of us military blind?) Would love to hear you go digging in that direction.
I agree that humility and cooperation are 2 of the most important ingredients needed for a viable solution. Unfortunately those have been severely undervalued by our American culture. We don't teach those things - we teach how to compete, how to put yourself ahead of others, how to win.
I'm fairly certain we're teaching kids how to surrender, assume responsibility for grievances past, and confusing them about their gender so they can't manage a fight against an aggressor. What school is teaching "Americans" to fight to the death?
Awesome point. This might even be the largest problem facing our society. If we the people work together we can’t be stopped, and I suspect our rulers already figured that out a long time ago.
Another great guest, thankyou. I have a stupid question: there is a presumption that oil/etc becomes too expensive to extract at a point past the peak. As oil is fundamental to our civilisation, what is to stop governments subsidising the costs by taking on oil companies debts via subsidies then writing off the debts when they get too big? Money is mostly fantasy anyway, so why not just erase it from the books and start again? Sort of UBI for oil companies? This could enable full extraction.
It's like smil Vaclav says. We're still just using iterations of 1880s technology. All this stuff we've created comes from burning fossil fuels..I mean the process is basically the same as moon shining to make these substances which then we burn to get more energy from, to create everything we have. It's not star trek technology as David Greabers pointed out. We were promised the Jetsons but get better ways to simulate the Jetsons with like TikTok videos. But the tech is closer to the Flintstones, just dig goo from the ground and burn it. None of these talks explained chemically how burning this stuff works.
Like the realization that oil is basis of most products we use in daily life. Heating, plastics, asphalt etcetera. This complicates the transition, but is not taken along by politicians. Good to see that this podcast is realistic. Transition is extremely complex.
"The crisis now unfolding, however, is entirely different to the 1970s in one crucial respect… The 1970s crisis was largely artificial. When all is said and done, the oil shock was nothing more than the emerging OPEC cartel asserting its newfound leverage following the peak of continental US oil production. There was no shortage of oil any more than the three-day-week had been caused by coal shortages. What they did, perhaps, give us a glimpse of was what might happen in the event that our economies depleted our fossil fuel reserves before we had found a more versatile and energy-dense alternative. . . . That system has been on the life-support of quantitative easing and near zero interest rates ever since. Indeed, so perilous a state has the system been in since 2008, it was essential that the people who claim to be our leaders avoid doing anything so foolish as to lockdown the economy or launch an undeclared economic war on one of the world’s biggest commodity exporters . . . And this is why the crisis we are beginning to experience will make the 1970s look like a golden age of peace and tranquility. . . . The sad reality though, is that our leaders - at least within the western empire - have bought into a vision of the future which cannot work without some new and yet-to-be-discovered high-density energy source (which rules out all of the so-called green technologies whose main purpose is to concentrate relatively weak and diffuse energy sources). . . . Even as we struggle to reimagine the 1970s in an attempt to understand the current situation, the only people on Earth today who can even begin to imagine the economic and social horrors that await western populations are the survivors of the 1980s famine in Ethiopia, the hyperinflation in 1990s Zimbabwe, or, ironically, the Russians who survived the collapse of the Soviet Union." ? consciousnessofsheep.co.uk/2022/07/01/bigger-than-you-can-imagine/
The problem Nate, is that “INTELLIGENT” “INFORMED” “HONORABLE” people like yourself & Mr. Berman are NOT politicians and in charge… People like yourselves, Elon, RFKJR, Rand Paul, others that are “SPECIALISTS” in their fields… Are not the ones in charge/ making “POLICIES”… Being an “adviser” is one thing… Being the “DECISION MAKER”/ “ONE IN CHARGE”… Is WAAAAYYYYY more important…
Thermodynamics doesn't care about Ideology. We have rampant Denial and Dillusions around Energy. Even Super Smart friends of mine, internationally renowned; Astronomers, Chip Designers, can't let it go. I get Cancelled asking for some Scientific explanation, on things like how Hydrogen Fuel Economy might work. One example of many of Magical Beliefs overriding even the best Science Educations. If you don't buy their Kool Aid, it's see you later. How much Energy does it take to create a Cubic Meters of Hydrogen via Water Electrolysis? Way more than you can get out of it via Combustion not counting Storage and Transport Cost of - 259 degrees Liquid Hydrogen. We have some sort of Religion overwhelming Rationality. Nate should get Exorcism Experts on the show. We have a Demon Infestation issue. I have a good Axe and Chainsaw, pleantyful Trees around here. I shall not Freeze to Death in Minnesota on a California Cross of Global Warming. Magic!
One quibble here Diesel is an engine cycle - not a fuel - it can use a broad range of fuels. Cars use diesel cycle(gasoline is just a fraction that is more convenient). The higher the engine compression the closer it is tuned to the diesel cycle. Petrol engines were smaller than diesel engines - this is what drove the car industry - technological progress has reduced this driver.
I think you mean ”Cars use Otto cycle". A more usefull nomenclature for the vast majority of the population without thermodynamics education would be ”spark ignition” vs ”compression ignition” engine cycles.
@@bipl8989 Yep AND they get it wrong in the context. That is what I am noting. Americans have this defect in their thinking a lot. Diesel engines can run on a lot of fuels -they are efficient - modern cars use fuel injection a diesel like feature. If the market was rational diesel would have replaced 'petrol' thirty years ago. Look at the history of diesel cars... It is a case study of politics.
@@carly09et Which brings to mind gasoline and petrol, two words for the same fuel, not to mention in other places its referred to as benzene, and in America, at least popularly, as "gas", which it isn't usually at all. Handy for crossword puzzles.
Should grow a spine. I admire Vlad. It's easy to say. Ukraine is a response to OUR intervention. Our stupid short sighted behaviour is coming back to bite us.
Very interesting as usual. Refineries produce one more important product, above all for producing metals for the "green economy": sulfur, which is used to produce solvents. According to the IEA, demand for solvents increases rapidly and sulfur coming out of refineries decreases as the economy decarbonizes. By 2050, the world economy will lack about 300 million tons of sulfur needed to produce or recycle batteries.
Best explanation yet of how refineries work, the different grades of crude, why the US has to both export and import crude, and the fundamental building blocks of modern society. Plastic, steel, cement, and fertilizer. Your regenerative agriculture guests would dispute the necessity of the last one. Can you find another guest, maybe Simon Michaux, who can make a deeper dive into cement and its dependencies on fossil fuels?
Bunker fuel, Bunker Oil in Norway, the oil used to be stored in the coal bunkers. Now you have bunker fuel, taadaa. At least according to wikipedia. We in the north provide over 60% of the American oil supply. Biodiesel, what a horrible idea, let's put food in cars and trucks. Never should have happened. Thank you both very much for a great lesson in the breakdown of a barrel of oil, and it's component parts.
Guy can't grasp that his bourgeois worldview based around capitalism is not the future. He keeps explaining the problems with trying to maintain it woth alternatives.
Unfortunately, Mr Berman has some facts wrong about biofuels. As a petroleum geologist, when he starts talking about biofuels, he is speaking out of his area of expertise.
15:16...."the more you cook it, the lighter it become"....i do no tknow, on what condition they categorize heavy or light oil, but it should be exactly the opposite: with cooking/heating up the oil, you vaporate the fleetingly components of the oil. That is, what the rafinerys do to after that heating up and vaporization, to destillate the gasoline out of the vaporized content. And whats gone stay back will be an even thicker/ropiness oil, what alsmost will be used as ship-diesel. So cooking makes it not lighter, rather heavier.... but that heavyness isn´t the same, as heavy oil breed, rather its whats last after destillation. And if that also happends in the geological deposites in the earth, then ypu also get heavier oil, if that geological layers are set out great heat. And not the other way around. So, thats the logic of all fluids. Vaporization always will extract the fleetingly components and the lasting rest will be less "light" in regards to mass pro volume, as befor. So, because there is also propane and butane in that crude-oil, and that will vaporating first, .....but that also did not make a lighter mass od the lasting crude-oil-fluid, but it makes it heavier. I do not understand the catogization of that. But something isn´t correct at his explanations.
Putin may know a great deal about energy economics but he knew nothing about Ukraine and leadrship. This is not an uncommon failing amoung Phds - to narrowly focussed.
He’s wrong about the necessity for man made fertilizers, it can and is being done by proper land and livestock management. Only if you’re doing modern industrialized farming that rapes the land for profit do you need to supplement fertilizer. Regenerative farming can do it natural and perpetually, and it is scalable if farmers were willing. We have to move away from a profit based economy if we’re to have any hope of being prepared for a future of population decline. Any economy that requires continuous growth is a tool of the ultra rich to continue to farm the population for their productivity.
Great conversation, should have been in national discussion decades ago back when big oil companies first discovered the future impact of their products. Hope there’s still time to sort out the complexities before the bulk of humanity dies off. Unless that is the plan?
Biodiesel is the worst. Lots of mercedes 300d owners did the veggie diesel conversions in the early 2000s, those engines are now garbage. And to kill a mercedes diesel engine, takes a lot.
Si dra un amable dictador, desarrollaría lo nuclear con todo el recurso posible, preservarlos el petróleo para lo que Esmas eficiente de él y ayudaría a salir de la pobreza al tercer mundo, de esta forma la necesaria transición hacia la escasez de petróleo se haría más llevadera,
Read a story several years ago about a plastic surgeon that ran his diesel car on human fat he got from liposuction. With all the obese people in the US this could be a viable source of fuel.
So we have plenty of oil necessary to cook the planet.... And the economy requires this oil to operate, i guess this is the definition of being stuck between a rock and a hard place.
Great discussion, thanks! Decarbonisation is going to be more difficult than most people realise. It's clear from discussions like this that our modern civilisation is totally dependent on oil and its byproducts. Re Putin's dissertation; "Strategic planning for the production of the mineral resource base of the region during conditions of the formation of market relations", the daughter of the rector of the university in St. Petersburg where Putin defended his thesis claimed that her father, Vladimir Litvinenko, wrote this thesis. It was common practice at that time for rising bureaucrats to embellish their credentials with a Ph.D. and it was almost 100% completed by ghost writers. Of course this doesn't detract from Art's point that Putin understands the global energy markets probably better than most leaders.
Thanks to both of you. Art Berman has a talent to explain these subjects for the lay audience. I learned so much. Who knew about Putin!? Yes, Vaclav Smil would be great. THANKYOU.
Wholesome with insights that took my understanding by surprise as I know realise I had not understood adequately the supply and mix system, if I may call it that. Thank you...
Chem major here. The guest kinda disclaimed himself as petroleum-geologist-not-chemist at the very start. I think as a specialty we should have the bravery to simplify our vocabulary for the rest of humanity. Once we started Greek prefixing the alkanes we shoulda back-edited the peri-alchemy era nomenclature. Methane should be monane, ethane diane, propane triane, butane tetrane.... the rest are already consistent.
@@NullHand thank you - that was a classey comment :-). Seriously, by the sheer breadth of topics covered in my videos and by the guests there WILL be mistakes. I appreciate the spirit (and erudition) of your comment. I dream of online community that builds and strengthens the truth and viable paths forward. Your comment - and others like it- make me miss the early years of theoildrum. Thank you
Awesome content. Thank you! I hope you can convince Mister Smil to participate but from what I've seen about him, he's extremely private and reclusive. Now I have quite a few books to catch up with. However, it would be interesting to have a little podcast about him and his views, he seems to be very much in line with everything I've heard you say.
Good afternoon Arthur and Nate 'Green paint', Sounds a fitting expression to use for a description of how I feel/think about mental health nursing, outcomes and its obstacles within practice/treatment medical models. From patient assessment(medical/nursing model) to out sourcing treatment practices (third sector). Exporting Green paint. Unmeasurable! Nothing is intellectually/consciously joined up therefore the system is nearly broken. Thankyou for your shared conversation.💜
As a species we are evolving towards global "islands" of relative prosperity and power adjacent to vast swaths of the Earth that are deemed "expendable" EXCEPT for their resources. That dynamic portends horrors greater than colonialism ever imagined.
which is why the more those "islands" internally implode, the better
The externalities of doing business this way will fairly soon overwhelm our ability to adapt, unless we change course
“Our grubby little human hands” pretty much sums up the situation. lol
Side note on all this, electricity cannot replace fossil fuels as it stands today. I have a used electric car and I didn't get it thinking it was better for the environment. I was in a pretty bad position and I only got the car trying to solve my issues being isolated from jobs and stability. Car ownership keeps Americans in poverty and precarious positions for little benefit. But I notice a decent number of people still think electric cars are better for the environment.
The technology can't be scaled up without environmental destruction, and the cars are substantially less powerful than oil-powered vehicles, so you have to waste a lot more resources to achieve the goal. I strongly believe Americans in particular need to adapt the infrastructure necessary to reduce car-use or live car-free. I'm from Minneapolis, Nate's home turf. I was car-free there my whole life and it was awesome.
And rather than trying to replace fossil fuels with substandard alternatives, we should transition towards "oil minimalism". The super-organism has to go through rehab; we can't quit all at once or it's dangerous. I strongly believe if people band together in groups and begin finding ANY path to cutting down car/oil use, we will find the solutions we are looking for along the way. Partner with other people, form a carpool club, consolidate your time and resources.
If you utter the words “car-free” or “mass transit” in Texas or Oklahoma they will string you up very quickly
I am happy to learn that the circle of listening to smarter and more eloquent people than me started with Nate Hagens than brought me to Vaclav Smil`s books and now brought me back to the Great Simplification pot casts from Nate Hagens. Enlighthning indeed! THANK YOU!
My heart is beatin' like a little bunny! Thank you Arthur for helping me finally understand why and how refining oil matters so much to the big picture! And Nate, thank you for consistently finding and bringing us the people who shed light on those specific areas critical to our problem-solving adventure. It feels like I'm sitting at a table watching you fit the puzzle pieces of eternity into place.
Eternity is too big a time frame if humans have only been around for 300,000 years out of 13.8 billion (and only two hundred years using oil as the primary source of energy) and with the universe continuing on for billions of years with or without us. But I did really love this conversation, too! It was clear as a bell.
This is probably the best interview of Art Berman I've ever listened to, because, well, Nate was conducting it.
@@erwin643 And very importantly, conducting it with great humility.
@@johnbanach3875 assuming that we were not imported from somewhere else.
problem-solving adventure. yes yes, try by all means.. and while your at it count your CO2 emissions? That is no adventure, it's real work and sacrifice.
Nate Guru is great at simplifications inside his bubble, but has three bright lights burning through and through behind him... eternally you see. This cosmeticism works great for Woke Peoples of America
Enjoyed this, but just wanted to point out that Americans didn't invent the automobile, they just made it their religion.
So whats the soultion , we can talk about the problem till Armageddon...what do we do?
It is always good to hear Art's take on oil and Nate is a brilliant interviewer. I am an energy analyst and there was nothing new I learned from his answers about oil extraction and refining , consumption and distribution but few people outside of the energy field do. It is complicated with a lot of moving parts. Art's most important contribution to this discussion was his advice to cooperate. He condemned the aggression and stupidity of our media pundits and political leaders which have lead the world to this precipice. I will not name names but you know who they are and if they remain in power, the trajectory is obvious. Ted Williams said"life is hard but it is a lot harder if you are stupid." Stupid people make stupid mistakes and if we can't educate the so called leaders, our only hope is to educate our populace and hope for the best.
Stupid people are easier to manipulate. 😑
Cooperation and 15 min cities. you like that ah? Idealistic eunuchs like you love all that. That's why their is no name beside your comments.
We let our competitive and tribal instincts get the best of us and our children will pay the ultimate price
An hour fifteen everybody needs to hear. Art has an amazing way of clearly explaining the complex.
Adding 100 extra thumbs up here.
hes not correct on alot of his assertions but at least hes trying.
Nate Sir. Glad you and ur hair are part of my life. The guests are amazing. You have sparked me on a deep dive to seek out more information. Thank you again.
Just want chine in to say Nate's hair is awesome, yes.
We're also running out of sand for concrete and desert sand is not a replacement.
we can create those, ...with more energy
Thank you for this very interesting segment. I look forward to your next interview with Mr. Berman whose clarity and measured tone make it a real pleasure to learn from his expertise. I watch your podcast regularly and command you for thr quality of your contents. I spend a lot of time learning about our human predicament from both thr energy lens and climate change / ecology perspective. I started on that journey back in 2018 after reading the IPCC special report on + 1.5C of warming and it radically changed my perception of the future while setting in motion my need to dig much deeper into energy and climate topics. Your voice is amongst those i respect the most. Thank you for your work.
C makes 4 bonds, H makes 1, methane CH4, ethane C2H6, ethanol C2H5OH, butane, propane, gasoline (pentane,...,octane),...
Thanks Nate and Art. I've been follow both of you for the past decade and appreciate having this discussion to pass on to people who ask me about these issues. Plus I learned some new stuff as well :)
our problem as a species is profane more than propane. 'Me fame' more then methane. Insane in the membrane becoming inhumane. Great podcast as always Nate. thank you
I’m getting a migraine. 🤦♀️😆
When your rap album drops you'll be a household name
Haha 😂. Cheers
Speak proper English please.
So true
Great conversation but one major thing which I feel never gets the attention it deserves is that without the environment the economy does not exist. You know that Nate! We often speak about these topics as though paying attention to the climate is optional. Ditching fossil fuels may not appear to be feasible, however ignoring the climate is also not feasible. The score when it’s Fossil fuel economy vs Mother Nature: 0:1. Let’s not get to the end of that match!
Looks like Nate does want to upset his interviewes too much, but yes, at least one question like: if you have a magic wand to stay under the 1.5 degrees, what would be some of the solutions for the oil industry to work on?
If I ever run into Art Berman, I'll buy him a coffee and a danish. He's great! Thanks for having him on your show.
Thanks guys! Very informational.
Now when I "lubricate my bearings" with something "thick and pastey" I will understand how thankful I should be to oily characters far distant.
Well there were quite a few of 'I didn't know that' moments from me! Thank you!!
You might find this interesting, there are sunken world war II era ships that are corroding away at the bottom of the sea containing billions of gallons of oil.
This discussion has given me a totally new perspective on going green. I agree, this is a very complex problem that will not be solved in the near future. These conversations are so important.
Discussion is very correct, temperatures are not correct. Profane, butane are gaseous at atmospheric pressure. Propane is c3, butane is c4. This is recersed in discussion. A crude oil is characterised with a standard distillation curve. Heating is limited, because temperatures over 200 deg C results in thermal degradation.
Arthur clearly very knowledgeable, but not a chemical background.
Heavier fractioneel are cracked or hydrogenated to reach lower boiling component or shift C/H ratio. Heavy fractions have higher C/H ratio than low boiling fractions. Compare e.g. methane with hexane.
Hi Nate. I have a solution for fossil free asphalt. Biochar. We are laying the first N. American demonstration of "green asphalt" roadway in my ecovillage with our partner, Advanced Carbon Technology, in late 2023. One mile of pavement takes 300 tons of biochar, no fossil fuels, and sequesters 880 tons of CO2.
Danish toy manufacturer LEGO just gave up trying to find and use an eco-friendlier plastic for producing their little bricks out of - after trying literally hundreds of potential other types and varieties of ‘lower carbon’ plastics and polymers. Big Government is trying to take the kids toys away, but it just ain’t as simple as carving them all outta wood.
Gu6 lnows there's a prblem. But when environmentalists say get off fossil fuels he gets confused.
These types, they always need o protect their class privileges. That's why they can't grasp ending fossil fuels.
Great conversation. Very informative. But I disagreed with some comments at the end. A windfall profits tax is not unreasonable or the viewpoint of people who haven’t thought deeply enough. Several European countries have enacted this tax in the past two years. It is especially appropriate, given that a trend toward monopolization began about 40 years ago, and has continued unabated.
It would be important to add that one of the reasons diesel is so important is its inherent safety due to low vapor pressure.
Absolutely fabulous conversation. This is the type of realism we all need to hear especially our politicians.
The complex systems have to be unraveled gradually, but it's far from impossible, food production, and production in general can be moved closer to the users. Waste management, concepts of consumption are also far from optimal. We can instantly get information on the needs in an area, which just 50 years ago was a much harder task. There are many issues in global logistics, which greatly stem from the wealth distribution which amplifies the energy crisis.
Octane is gasoline. 22:45
The automobile was NOT invented in the United States (11:30). Stop trying to take the credit for everything.
Benz invented the automobile in Stuttgart Germany.
Great overview of the energy system for us neophytes. Let's face it, folks. We need to invest in adaptation to climate change as well as renewables because there's no way we'll get to net zero by 2050.
Road are interesting but roads do predate cars and oil production. The predecessor of the asphalt road was gravel or dirt and on busier roads paving with bricks or stones. Horse drawn vehicles travelled at about 15 kph. Wheels without oil sourced material were wooden or metallic and did not make for a comfortable ride. It's no wonder railways quickly became popular in the 19th century being more comfortable and a lot faster.
If you use bio fuel wouldn't you need more fertilizer and crop expansion to produce it. So you need more fertilizer and where would you get that if it comes from oil now.
Hair looks amazing Nate! Looking forward to this episode.
Goals: 1) for hair to look amazing 2) help society navigate coming Great Simplification
@@thegreatsimplification LOL
You use coal/coke, for steel production for two reasons. The heat for the smelting sure, but it also adds necessary carbon to pig iron, which will later create the oxygen content to superheat and burn that carbon off later on when producing mild steel, for construction. High carbon steel is basically files, razors, and some cutlery. It's far to brittle to use for infrastructure. So anyways, coal and steel exist together.
Another EV/oil connection is cobalt. Since the rise of EV's industries groups opposed to them fear monger artisanal mining of cobalt by children in Congo. This is comical in that refineries were and possibly still are the largest users of cobalt. Used to remove sulphur and possibly other contaminants. Great enlightening presentation, thanks
Diesel is far less volatile than petrol , so it's safer to store in large quantities. It's also more stable and doesn't evaporate like petrol.
This is the best discussion on crude oil supply and refinement worldwide and what is produced out of a barrel of crude oil! Thanks to Nate in assisting Art, who is very informative, in helping discuss in layman's terms the complex topic of oil supply, refinement and refinement products and how the US fits into that overall complexity! Thanks to the both of you for this particular discussion. I would love for your both to have a discussion on "shale oil" and its refinement and the reasons to blend with heavier crude oil.
Trucks trains and ships burn diesel. Your food moves by truck train and ship.
Technically container ships run on heavy oil which is the heavy material leftovers from distilling. Heavy rail transport is far more efficient at moving tons of goods per gallon of fuel. American heavy rail infrastructure has been neglected for decades.
@@jenpsakiscousin4589 True for mechanically driven ones. Some container ships use diesel-electric propulsion, which run on fuels closer to automotive diesel or fuel oil.
@@erkinalp I always forget about heavy fuel oil. We have a big motor generator at work that burns heavy fuel oil, more like tar than oil.
Nate, one of my favourite episodes to date, as ever, deep gratitude for sharing this knowledge with the word. I felt obliged to leave a comment. You both touched on the Haber-Bosch process but not by name, and there was a claim that the only reason that there are ~8billion on planet earth is because we learned to liquify air to harvest the nitrogen. Whilst it is true, from a historical perspective, it led to the 'green' revolution, it's important that more people become aware that plant life also has an answer for harvesting nitrogen from the air, and in a manner which requires very little human labour. Intelligent combinations of symbiotic and regenerative plant life can continue to feed the world in the absence of HB process.
We've never managed it before on such a grand scale, because this information was not widely shared in the ways which are possible today, but it's possible (albeit with far less potential for automated mechanical harvesting) we can rely on nitrogen fixing plants (actually the bacteria that those plants attract in their root systems!) to provide all the nitrogen our crops need. Someone will surely respond, well what about the P&K from the NPK... well, there are soluiontions for that too... Sure, these techniques don't lend themselves well to mechanical sowing and harvesting equipment, more labour will be needed in our countrysides, but we don't have to starve, and let's face it, cities will be less attractive in the wake of energy shortages. Permaculture has many answers to our predicament. Times will be lean, and the age of abundance is over, sure, but we could probably support several billions more than we suspect if those practices become widespread. I hope you have a guest on soon who will cover regenerative agriculture.... wink wink. ;)
My ancestors left the farm for the city, lost all that knowledge and I’m trying to learn that stuff from scratch
@@brianhawes3115 despite popular narrative that industrialisation was the cause of urbanisation, it was only sped up by technology, the revolution may not even have occured here in the UK if it were not for the land enclosures that forced needed factory workers (into terrible working/living conditions) into the hands of the (at the time) new capitalist classes. People need to be educated about the ramifications of enclosure and persecution of indigenous cultures. I hope Nate will have someone to discuss the roots of this issue sometime.
@@vexy1987 I saw a show Nate had were he has Vandana Shiva on, she’s great, also have a friend who’s been telling me to check out Korean natural farming
Great conversation Nate. First time here, I appreciate your style and your sense of objectivity. Thank you so much.
Great conversation, my history pedant hat has been firmly placed on my head by Arthur's statement that the motor car was invented in the USA. The germans want their creation back. Again great conversation keep up the good work.
I was about to say the same thing , Americans are very funny .
Art is good within his area of training [refineries], but he tends to opine far out side that to woeful effect - for example, @ 33 mins et seq he wanders outside his expertise to opine on agriculture, and says fertilizer was indispensable to more food production and that lead to population growth from 2 billion c 1917 to todays 8 billion. Completely unsupported and frankly wrong - population was growing slowly with fertilizers. It then exploded exponentially not due to more fertilizers or food production or the industrial revolution but due to the exponential rate of population growth which is largely unaffected by birth rates and food supplies and we see this very clearly.
It is a health explosion. Also, we've probably reached peak population. I'm not at all convinced population reduction is not just Hitler's ideas in a different guise....
@20:35. Not sure I agree with that number 400 c. A refinery starts with a big asphalt unit and a big fractionator. Years ago I was responsible for a transmix fractionator at Conoco Phillips. This unit separated gasoline from #2 oil(diesel) that had become mixed in the pipelining of the product from Texas to Indiana. The basic parameters were as follows:
Furnace outlet temp: 450+ F
Tower bottoms temp 400+ F
Tower tray #x temp(around 380+ ish)
Heat exchanger inlet temp from the mix tank on a summer day: 60 F ish
Heat exchanger outlet temp from the mix tank into the tower: 390+ F
Tower pressure: 17 PSI.
Can't remember which but either the asphalt unit or the fractionator in a refinery is a vacuum tower. So a lower temp is needed to get the boil so to speak.
Looked it up and it is around 350 to 400 C so Art is referring to taking diesel out of the heavier components.
Brilliant work, Nate - thank you.
Immediate next thought is of how the US defence network interacts with this market (and are most of us military blind?) Would love to hear you go digging in that direction.
The US ‘defense’ budget is a GIANT black hole. Wonder where all those extra billlions of unaccountable dollars are going.. 🧐
I agree that humility and cooperation are 2 of the most important ingredients needed for a viable solution. Unfortunately those have been severely undervalued by our American culture. We don't teach those things - we teach how to compete, how to put yourself ahead of others, how to win.
I'm fairly certain we're teaching kids how to surrender, assume responsibility for grievances past, and confusing them about their gender so they can't manage a fight against an aggressor. What school is teaching "Americans" to fight to the death?
If you don't like it....move your **s to a developing country that has no oil, no freedom of movement or property rights. Leave our country alone.
Cooperation? Or wealth redistribution?
Awesome point. This might even be the largest problem facing our society.
If we the people work together we can’t be stopped, and I suspect our rulers already figured that out a long time ago.
Love your work Nate. Many thanks.
Another great guest, thankyou. I have a stupid question: there is a presumption that oil/etc becomes too expensive to extract at a point past the peak. As oil is fundamental to our civilisation, what is to stop governments subsidising the costs by taking on oil companies debts via subsidies then writing off the debts when they get too big? Money is mostly fantasy anyway, so why not just erase it from the books and start again? Sort of UBI for oil companies? This could enable full extraction.
I’ve long expected that to happen. Or pseudo-nationalization. Not there yet but it’s coming
Debt forgiveness causes hard-to-predict shifts in power, hence they are avoiding it at all costs.
It's like smil Vaclav says. We're still just using iterations of 1880s technology. All this stuff we've created comes from burning fossil fuels..I mean the process is basically the same as moon shining to make these substances which then we burn to get more energy from, to create everything we have. It's not star trek technology as David Greabers pointed out. We were promised the Jetsons but get better ways to simulate the Jetsons with like TikTok videos. But the tech is closer to the Flintstones, just dig goo from the ground and burn it. None of these talks explained chemically how burning this stuff works.
Like the realization that oil is basis of most products we use in daily life. Heating, plastics, asphalt etcetera. This complicates the transition, but is not taken along by politicians. Good to see that this podcast is realistic. Transition is extremely complex.
Top notch again ...many thanks..
"The crisis now unfolding, however, is entirely different to the 1970s in one crucial respect… The 1970s crisis was largely artificial. When all is said and done, the oil shock was nothing more than the emerging OPEC cartel asserting its newfound leverage following the peak of continental US oil production. There was no shortage of oil any more than the three-day-week had been caused by coal shortages. What they did, perhaps, give us a glimpse of was what might happen in the event that our economies depleted our fossil fuel reserves before we had found a more versatile and energy-dense alternative. . . . That system has been on the life-support of quantitative easing and near zero interest rates ever since. Indeed, so perilous a state has the system been in since 2008, it was essential that the people who claim to be our leaders avoid doing anything so foolish as to lockdown the economy or launch an undeclared economic war on one of the world’s biggest commodity exporters . . .
And this is why the crisis we are beginning to experience will make the 1970s look like a golden age of peace and tranquility. . . . The sad reality though, is that our leaders - at least within the western empire - have bought into a vision of the future which cannot work without some new and yet-to-be-discovered high-density energy source (which rules out all of the so-called green technologies whose main purpose is to concentrate relatively weak and diffuse energy sources). . . . Even as we struggle to reimagine the 1970s in an attempt to understand the current situation, the only people on Earth today who can even begin to imagine the economic and social horrors that await western populations are the survivors of the 1980s famine in Ethiopia, the hyperinflation in 1990s Zimbabwe, or, ironically, the Russians who survived the collapse of the Soviet Union." ?
consciousnessofsheep.co.uk/2022/07/01/bigger-than-you-can-imagine/
Thanks, Guys
As a follower of the “Peak Oil” subject for many years I had a lot of “I didn't know that” in this talk.
The problem Nate, is that
“INTELLIGENT”
“INFORMED”
“HONORABLE”
people like yourself & Mr. Berman are NOT politicians and in charge…
People like yourselves, Elon, RFKJR, Rand Paul, others that are
“SPECIALISTS” in their fields…
Are not the ones in charge/ making
“POLICIES”…
Being an “adviser” is one thing…
Being the “DECISION MAKER”/ “ONE IN CHARGE”…
Is WAAAAYYYYY more important…
Thermodynamics doesn't care about Ideology.
We have rampant Denial and Dillusions around Energy.
Even Super Smart friends of mine, internationally renowned; Astronomers, Chip Designers, can't let it go.
I get Cancelled asking for some Scientific explanation, on things like how Hydrogen Fuel Economy might work.
One example of many of Magical Beliefs overriding even the best Science Educations. If you don't buy their Kool Aid, it's see you later.
How much Energy does it take to create a Cubic Meters of Hydrogen via Water Electrolysis?
Way more than you can get out of it via Combustion not counting Storage and Transport Cost of - 259 degrees Liquid Hydrogen.
We have some sort of Religion overwhelming Rationality.
Nate should get Exorcism Experts on the show.
We have a Demon Infestation issue.
I have a good Axe and Chainsaw, pleantyful Trees around here.
I shall not Freeze to Death in Minnesota on a California Cross of Global Warming.
Magic!
One quibble here Diesel is an engine cycle - not a fuel - it can use a broad range of fuels.
Cars use diesel cycle(gasoline is just a fraction that is more convenient).
The higher the engine compression the closer it is tuned to the diesel cycle.
Petrol engines were smaller than diesel engines - this is what drove the car industry - technological progress has reduced this driver.
I think you mean ”Cars use Otto cycle".
A more usefull nomenclature for the vast majority of the population without thermodynamics education would be ”spark ignition” vs ”compression ignition” engine cycles.
@@NullHand thanks.
the choice in the 1900's still sets the standard NOW. Even though a known better standard has been available for half a century -
Oh come on. Diesel is both a name of a combustion process (Diesel cycle) and a fuel (diesel, not capitalized).
@@bipl8989 Yep AND they get it wrong in the context. That is what I am noting. Americans have this defect in their thinking a lot. Diesel engines can run on a lot of fuels -they are efficient - modern cars use fuel injection a diesel like feature. If the market was rational diesel would have replaced 'petrol' thirty years ago.
Look at the history of diesel cars... It is a case study of politics.
@@carly09et Which brings to mind gasoline and petrol, two words for the same fuel, not to mention in other places its referred to as benzene, and in America, at least popularly, as "gas", which it isn't usually at all. Handy for crossword puzzles.
Pulp Fiction?? I'm guessing you're conflating Vin Diesel and Ving Rhames?
Should grow a spine. I admire Vlad. It's easy to say. Ukraine is a response to OUR intervention. Our stupid short sighted behaviour is coming back to bite us.
Subscribed, this is a great channel.
Very interesting as usual. Refineries produce one more important product, above all for producing metals for the "green economy": sulfur, which is used to produce solvents. According to the IEA, demand for solvents increases rapidly and sulfur coming out of refineries decreases as the economy decarbonizes. By 2050, the world economy will lack about 300 million tons of sulfur needed to produce or recycle batteries.
Best explanation yet of how refineries work, the different grades of crude, why the US has to both export and import crude, and the fundamental building blocks of modern society. Plastic, steel, cement, and fertilizer. Your regenerative agriculture guests would dispute the necessity of the last one. Can you find another guest, maybe Simon Michaux, who can make a deeper dive into cement and its dependencies on fossil fuels?
Martinez Brenda Davis Scott Thompson Brian
Bunker fuel, Bunker Oil in Norway, the oil used to be stored in the coal bunkers. Now you have bunker fuel, taadaa. At least according to wikipedia. We in the north provide over 60% of the American oil supply. Biodiesel, what a horrible idea, let's put food in cars and trucks. Never should have happened. Thank you both very much for a great lesson in the breakdown of a barrel of oil, and it's component parts.
Biodiesel is not something we should rely on, of course. I see no Problem though with using waste oil (not creating oil for it) and blending
@@justinelliott3529 Agreed 100%
Guy can't grasp that his bourgeois worldview based around capitalism is not the future. He keeps explaining the problems with trying to maintain it woth alternatives.
Unfortunately, Mr Berman has some facts wrong about biofuels. As a petroleum geologist, when he starts talking about biofuels, he is speaking out of his area of expertise.
15:16...."the more you cook it, the lighter it become"....i do no tknow, on what condition they categorize heavy or light oil, but it should be exactly the opposite: with cooking/heating up the oil, you vaporate the fleetingly components of the oil. That is, what the rafinerys do to after that heating up and vaporization, to destillate the gasoline out of the vaporized content. And whats gone stay back will be an even thicker/ropiness oil, what alsmost will be used as ship-diesel.
So cooking makes it not lighter, rather heavier.... but that heavyness isn´t the same, as heavy oil breed, rather its whats last after destillation. And if that also happends in the geological deposites in the earth, then ypu also get heavier oil, if that geological layers are set out great heat. And not the other way around.
So, thats the logic of all fluids. Vaporization always will extract the fleetingly components and the lasting rest will be less "light" in regards to mass pro volume, as befor.
So, because there is also propane and butane in that crude-oil, and that will vaporating first, .....but that also did not make a lighter mass od the lasting crude-oil-fluid, but it makes it heavier.
I do not understand the catogization of that. But something isn´t correct at his explanations.
Unintended consequence of shutting down NZ refinery was no CO2 for making beer
Human nature (biological and cultural) , like it or not, has been shaped by intergroup conflict. For sure, we can cooperate, but will we?
Putin may know a great deal about energy economics but he knew nothing about Ukraine and leadrship. This is not an uncommon failing amoung Phds - to narrowly focussed.
He’s wrong about the necessity for man made fertilizers, it can and is being done by proper land and livestock management. Only if you’re doing modern industrialized farming that rapes the land for profit do you need to supplement fertilizer. Regenerative farming can do it natural and perpetually, and it is scalable if farmers were willing.
We have to move away from a profit based economy if we’re to have any hope of being prepared for a future of population decline. Any economy that requires continuous growth is a tool of the ultra rich to continue to farm the population for their productivity.
Really educational, 'hope' it's not too late?
Energy is getting more expensive measures in fiat currency which is being devalued.
Great conversation, should have been in national discussion decades ago back when big oil companies first discovered the future impact of their products. Hope there’s still time to sort out the complexities before the bulk of humanity dies off. Unless that is the plan?
Humility and co-operation 👍👍👍
This was a great convo, plenty of insight. I just wish Arthur would have paid attention in chemistry class 🥴
yeah, why kerosene? what about kerosene made it useful for indoor lighting?
At 27:20, Art mentions cleaning up the shipping fuel, which we're now learning creates warmer sea temperatures from clearer skies😭
Biodiesel is the worst. Lots of mercedes 300d owners did the veggie diesel conversions in the early 2000s, those engines are now garbage. And to kill a mercedes diesel engine, takes a lot.
Si dra un amable dictador, desarrollaría lo nuclear con todo el recurso posible, preservarlos el petróleo para lo que Esmas eficiente de él y ayudaría a salir de la pobreza al tercer mundo, de esta forma la necesaria transición hacia la escasez de petróleo se haría más llevadera,
The answer to one question you asked, glass roads. Hexagonal pieces that fit together.
Read a story several years ago about a plastic surgeon that ran his diesel car on human fat he got from liposuction. With all the obese people in the US this could be a viable source of fuel.
The automobile was not invented in the USA. Otherwise interesting.
How can you tell a person is eugenicist? They tell you they think the problem wih the world is too many people.
Ev’ry thing on the hog is good! (referring to a barrel of oil) 😉
So we have plenty of oil necessary to cook the planet.... And the economy requires this oil to operate, i guess this is the definition of being stuck between a rock and a hard place.
Walker Sharon Williams Lisa Lewis Jennifer
The answer to our energy needs is thorium nuclear reactors and water powered vehicles as was demonstrated by the late Stanely Meyer.
Art Berman is just amazingly informative
don't talk of diesel talk of distillates , of which diesel is a sub-group
distillates are also used for jet fuel and there is no substitute
Ok, so we’re not getting off oil anytime soon. Could we at least stop emitting greenhouse gases with the oil?
Great discussion, thanks! Decarbonisation is going to be more difficult than most people realise. It's clear from discussions like this that our modern civilisation is totally dependent on oil and its byproducts. Re Putin's dissertation; "Strategic planning for the production of the mineral resource base of the region during conditions of the formation of market relations", the daughter of the rector of the university in St. Petersburg where Putin defended his thesis claimed that her father, Vladimir Litvinenko, wrote this thesis. It was common practice at that time for rising bureaucrats to embellish their credentials with a Ph.D. and it was almost 100% completed by ghost writers. Of course this doesn't detract from Art's point that Putin understands the global energy markets probably better than most leaders.
Lord Monkton at the Oxford Union covers the Russian involvement. ua-cam.com/users/results?search_query=oxford+union+lord+monckton+
Thanks to both of you. Art Berman has a talent to explain these subjects for the lay audience. I learned so much. Who knew about Putin!? Yes, Vaclav Smil would be great. THANKYOU.
Wholesome with insights that took my understanding by surprise as I know realise I had not understood adequately the supply and mix system, if I may call it that. Thank you...
Stop building roads. End capitalism
Very clear and interesting, thank you
Most excellent and informative clip!
Art has propane and butane backwards. Propane has 3 carbons per molecule, butane has 4 carbons per molecule.
Yes we noticed that after and corrected in pdf and show notes. Thanks
Chem major here. The guest kinda disclaimed himself as petroleum-geologist-not-chemist at the very start.
I think as a specialty we should have the bravery to simplify our vocabulary for the rest of humanity. Once we started Greek prefixing the alkanes we shoulda back-edited the peri-alchemy era nomenclature. Methane should be monane, ethane diane, propane triane, butane tetrane.... the rest are already consistent.
@@NullHand thank you - that was a classey comment :-). Seriously, by the sheer breadth of topics covered in my videos and by the guests there WILL be mistakes. I appreciate the spirit (and erudition) of your comment. I dream of online community that builds and strengthens the truth and viable paths forward. Your comment - and others like it- make me miss the early years of theoildrum. Thank you
Awesome content. Thank you! I hope you can convince Mister Smil to participate but from what I've seen about him, he's extremely private and reclusive. Now I have quite a few books to catch up with. However, it would be interesting to have a little podcast about him and his views, he seems to be very much in line with everything I've heard you say.
the automobile was invented in Germany
Good afternoon Arthur and Nate
'Green paint',
Sounds a fitting expression to use for a description of how I feel/think about mental health nursing, outcomes and its obstacles within practice/treatment medical models. From patient assessment(medical/nursing model) to out sourcing treatment practices (third sector).
Exporting Green paint. Unmeasurable!
Nothing is intellectually/consciously joined up therefore the system is nearly broken.
Thankyou for your shared conversation.💜