My Sifu once told me there was a Wing Chun Teacher in the uk that literally sat on a throne and made his students take one knee in front of him. I thought he was messing around until one class I assisted a new starter with past experience introduced to our class structure. After the class Sifu mentioned to me She had trained under that teacher.
Hi, first great compliment to the channel and the awesome production quality. It can become a difficult subject bringing a martial art to another country/culture. Surely many times the gwai lo displays many miststeps and might even come across as disrespectful in a differnt cultural environment. It is also true though that particularly Wing Chun teachers sometimes teach their western students those very not-asian titles, forms, student grades, newly formed drills with the claim that those things are "traditionel" or authentic in the first place. These changes or additions are usually done for marketing purposes and have nothing to do with lineage, tradition or the art itself,
Excellently explained! I enjoyed your video and hope people stop the embarrassing insistence of referring to themselves as “Big Sifu”. They don’t understand the Chinese language and also probably the concept of 武德 (Martial Morality) which includes having humility. If someone was to call a person “Dai Sifu” to their face, it actually sounds like they are being sarcastic. The variation of “Dai Si” which you have mentioned would be the better alternative but even then we would usually only call Buddhist monks or Taoist priests this to their face, for any other person in a manual skilled profession “Sifu” is enough. A fancy title doesn’t mean people respect you and in this case using “Dai Sifu” makes you sound like a fool.
Here in the Philippines, there are a lot of titles for those who are teaching Wing Chun. Some calls themselves Grandmasters, Sifu, Great Teacher and many others. It's like a way they can boost their ego. "Coach" simply ain't good for them.
This reminds me of how folks in Japanese martial arts have hijacked the term, "shihan." THAT term is a legitimate "honorific," but is both improper and impractical in proper Japanese speech. However, it has become so pervasive that even Japanese teachers relent and allow their students to call them that, if only to avoid the linguistic argument. However, those who actually SPEAK or UNDERSTAND a modicum of Japanese tend to at the very least, politely smile (and laugh internally). What's actually worse to me though, is when STUDENTS get MAD when you DON'T use the terms, "Dai-Sifu" or "Shihan."
When new students would ask my former JKD instructor what should we call you, he would jokingly reply " Refer to me as ULTIMATE SUPREME SUPER GRAND MASTER...."or something to that affect. Obviously showing that he didn't take certain self-proclaimed titles seriously😄
great video. in my former school they always told us when we crossed the arms infront of the sifu it means a challenge in china. so that you want to fight against the sifu. is this true?
David Haha mileage may vary depending on the school, but it’s more like if your SiFu is explaining and your arms are crossed it just comes off a bit prickish like “yeah yeah yeah I know already”.
If the title of "dai sifu" in you public name is wonky, seeing people have "sihing" as their public title makes me want to just perfect defensive badminton and call it a day.
Dude sifu ! You need... well, I NEED you to make more Kuen Kuit shirts😂 ! ( Now that you know how to design your books by yourself, one or two more shirts should be easy😉 ?) But Now, let's be serious, I stopped the video at 4:32 when I saw you on your throne !!! You need to make a t shirt with it and offer it to Sean one day when he will deserve it... if he behave well during a DOKF.... Well we can wait ! 😈😈😈 Thank for the video ! Nico, another Dude from France
It's like this Bruce Lee stepped into acting as a different type of character than he did as kid. Reserve , humble & caution in The Big Boss til he knew his way around . Then The Chinese Connection as an intense violent Foe for those who killed his teacher. Bruce brought out the dangerous stills of a pupil in in morning 😓& RAGE 😡 over the circumstances of his teachers' murder!! After that ( this where your 🤡 character comes in my View) Bruce makes Way of the Dragon 🐉, a very different funny & light ❤ film Bruce gave to his audience ,yet, telling a story about working folks from a foreign land sharing their way of food delicacies peacefully & undisturbed ( which around the 🌍 folks ❤ Chinese food) We as martial artists needs to show the 🌍 the humorous side of our personalities!! We don't want to show we're violent trouble makers with no sense of being civilized 🙏.
Would have been a much shorter video if I just said that... unfortunately I had to tiptoe this topic as I have beloved si-hings who subscribe to it ... but, yeah, pretty much what you said 👍🏻
The Kung Fu Genius of course, totally get that you would make a whole video of it. Actually I really appreciate it that you go into detail with the cultural side of things. It annoys me so much as well when I hear stuff that’s made up. Lol
Only at the most basic level of colloquial Chinese does 大 mean "big" (as per Sifu Subtitles). I'm sure someone as well versed in Chinese language and culture as the Kung Fu Genius(1) is well aware of 中國古代四大美女 (The Four Great Beauties of Ancient China), for example. Can one not either be great, and/or be awarded the title of "Great"? (Not a title one should award oneself of course, or even use when it has been bestowed upon one). Throughout Asian culture, someone might be just a regular Raja, but someone else might be a Maha Raja. ("Maha" means great, as in "Maha Atma (Great Soul)" Gandhi). Ueshiba Morohei is universally revered as "O-sensei" (大先生) * * Aikido is not my field of expertise. I suspect the title might have been awarded posthumously. I would also add that merely because someone speaks Chinese, or actually is Chinese, doesn't mean that they have a comprehensive understanding of the history, intricacies and regional variations of either the language or martial arts.(2) That seems to be especially true today, when there as many charlatans and poseurs with grand titles in the East as in the West. (Personally, I am familiar with people in the Mainland who claim to have studied directly under 葉問 or 李小龍 :l) Do you render "sifu" as 師父 or 師傅? There is no absolute rule. It depends on the region/school/lineage you belong to. Perhaps also worth considering is that, as with so many aspects of language, titles have changed around the world, according to the times, culture, region and personal preference. Remember when "gay" meant happy and "dumb" meant mute? "Tuhon" and "Grand Tuhon", for example, are very recent innovations in FMA. Like Mr Genius, I abhor the pretentiousness and self-aggrandisement of "Dai Sifu". But within any system, it is useful to have a way to distinguish between your immediate teacher, and their teacher. If it's troublesome to teach Westerners about familial terms such as 師公 or 前輩, perhaps Dai Sifu might serve a purpose in that context. (I'm not saying definitively that is does, just making an observation) 1) I understand and appreciate how Richter Sifu came to be known as the Kung Fu Genius, and would learn from him in a heartbeat if I had the opportunity. But it has probably been observed previously that to the lay-person, the title could seem every bit as pompous as "Dai Sifu". 2) In my own Hong Kong lineage, descended from a good friend of 葉問, the teacher is traditionally addressed as 先生. What? You've never encountered that in the context of Chinese martial arts before? That's exactly why, despite agreeing 100% with Richter Sifu, I do not rush in to judge the terminology used by certain schools. Even if it is used by arrogant and/or ignorant Westerners (or Chinese) for the purpose of stroking one's ego and/or fleecing gullible Bruce Lee wannabees. Okay, rant over. Peace and good will to all of my kung fu brothers and sisters.
I will give you a more thoughtful response to your points when I have a little bit more time, but I thank you very much for contributing as you clearly have a deep understanding for this topic.
@@TheKungFuGenius , I would be flattered, but please don't waste your time. You absolutely nailed it. My comments are merely a feeble echo of the succinct and spot-on points you made with your trademark mix of insight, clarity and humour. I look forward to your future commentaries, observations and debunkings :)
The reason I wanted to reply more formally is because you make some really great points that I wanted to address and clarify. I agree with most of your points, and this isn't a counterpoint reply - just a clarification on some things you mentioned that I may not have been clear on. First and foremost, my channel is mostly for Wing Chun practitioners, and in particular "Hong Kong Yip Man Wing Chun", and even more in particular Wing Tsun (WT), aka the "Leung Ting line". So anything that sounds like I'm berating someone is because I'm usually calling out behavior of my own colleagues (Sifu Leung Ting explicitly told me "Dai Sifu" is not a thing in his WT association). As I've had more exposure to the Hong Kong source of WT than most of my European WT brothers, I roll my eyes at the misappropriation of titles that supposedly exist in our line of WT. These misappropriations often come from self-titled European Grandmasters who couldn't order tea in Cantonese if you held a gun to their heads - yet they paradoxically want to be taken seriously in their unnuanced misuse of Chinese terminology. Like you mentioned, the use of family-oriented titles in Chinese martial arts vary from style to style and region to region, but the version that I teach my students (and on this channel) is very common in Hong Kong (and Cantonese-based martial arts). Most of my Hong Kong colleagues in Choy Lay Fat, Hung Gar, Southern Mantis etc. apply the family titles exactly the same as we do in Wing Tsun. Most police officers in Hong Kong apply the same family distinctions to colleagues (Si-Hing, Si-Dai) making what I teach and explain pretty mainstream. That's not to claim I'm without error, but I don't have a worldview of Chinese family terms that is coming out of left field. If we follow statistics as a model, we must remove extremes on both sides of the equation to find the median - the teacher who prefers just to be called "mister" is just as much an anomaly as the one who requires his students to call him "Dai Sifu" in Hong Kong. I'm looking for the mainstream understood use in Hong Kong-based Chinese martial arts. The problem with these types of videos is that people often comment back with "yeah but in my school (insert more formal/less formal use of terms)". They assume their own subjective experience somehow reflects the aggregate of Chinese culture rather than simply being the echo chamber that it usually is. I know that things can be different outside of my school and I expect other people to know that to. But most don't know anything outside of their own walled garden of Kung Fu. I also mentioned that people are free to use whatever titles they want in their own association. That doesn't make them right - it just it was it is. I could say my students have to call me "Dai Si-Gung Sifu Master" everytime they address me. This might be "right" in my association, but that doesn't mean its a proper application of Chinese martial arts culture. Too many associations try to use the "this is our rule" to slip grandiose titles under the radar. I also don't pay much attention to Mainland Chinese practices of "traditional" martial arts titling. The Cultural Revolution was not kind to traditional Chinese culture in Mainland China, and what is left today is something "different". We find more accurate examples of traditional Chinese cultural in both Taiwan and Hong Kong. For this matter, one of my good friends is a Wushu master from Wuhan China who graduated with a master degree in martial arts. I've had conversations with her at length about these topics, and well, Mainland China doesn't really follow the old way of these titles. So I respectfully leave anything that is done in "China" out of the argument. I do mention in the video that daai (大) means great, not just "big". Through both my channel and podcast I'm attempting to educate those who generally don't know A1 about Chinese. Like WT, I start from the most fundamental to the most nuanced. What I will say about your comparison to the translation of Maha Raja etc. is that the use of daai (大) is quite common in Chinese for these types of religious titles or names of spiritual leaders. Kung Fu Sifu, at least in modern Hong Kong culture, are not revered in the same way as religious leaders, just ask my wife! For that reason I find the equating the use of "daai" to religious title translations a bit of an apples and oranges comparison. Hell, taxi drivers in Hong Kong can be addressed as Sifu (師傅) due to their expertise in driving a taxi. For that matter, there is a difference between 師父 and 師傅. The fact that many modern Chinese don't know that distinction doesn't change that fact. My wife, who is Chinese, graduated top of her class as a lawyer from Hong Kong University and didn't know the distinction, but her father, who was not as highly educated, nor a martial artist, did. I'm started to feel that the misunderstanding of these two "Sifu" terms for modern Chinese is like the youth of today conflating "your" and "you're". Ignorance doesn't make it correct, nor does it make those two terms equal. I did a dive on family titles and the differences of Sifu terms here: ua-cam.com/video/0A2DG4_uT5Y/v-deo.html As for the use in Japanese martial arts like "O'Sensei", I agree with you that this was most likely posthumous in the case of the founder of Aikido. However, this is another issue similar to the religious titling. Japanese martial arts terminology (titles etc.) draw a lot from Chinese characters, but that doesn't mean that their use is one-to-one the same as in Chinese. One must be cautious when comparing the more title-based Japanese martial arts hierachy with the patriach-based family titles of Chinese martial arts. Not a solid comparison. My test for any westerner who claims Dai Sifu is a thing is to print business cards with their name and title of "Dai Sifu". Go to Hong Kong and hand this to a legit Sifu of any style. You will undoubtedly be greeted with ill-concealed laughter. Sammo Hung berated an Australian Wing Chun sifu for having the title "master" in English on his card. Very funny story, and Sammo's reaction was in line with what many Sifu would have done. And you are right about Kung Fu Genius being pompous, but anyone who knows me knows that it is used in the most ironic way. I spend most of my time conversing with those far more knowledgeable than myself in martial arts. I'm rarely the genius in any conversation I have with Hong Kong Sifu of any style. I got the nickname from the Hong Kong newspaper Apple Daily which reported on a spat I got into with my former teacher Sifu Leung Ting. After years of representing him and learning from him, he told the newspaper that I only learned for one week from him. When the newspaper asked me for a comment, I said "one week? I must be a Kung Fu genius then"... The original print of that story used the Genius thing in bold and so the nickname stuck from my Hong Kong colleagues. But unlike many of my Kung Fu brothers in Europe who insist on being called "Dai Sifu", I have never, nor will I ever, insist on being called The Kung Fu Genius.
Hey, I take it back! Feel free to use your time as you wish. Anything you have to say is always worth reading of hearing :) Again, I agree wholesale. Indian kings and Japanese martial traditions (while fascinating in and of themselves), don't necessarily have anything whatever to do with Chinese cultural conventions. And I suspect it is true within "traditional" cultures around the world that an academically accomplished member the younger generation simply may not have the deep appreciation of shades and subtleties of the culture that an older member (possibly without any formal education) might possess. Appreciating all (or at least many) things Chinese as you and I do, it's heartbreaking to see that knowledge dying off. I know that you're aware of uses/meanings of "大". I only mentioned it because "Big Sifu" appears in another comment, and I'm pretty sure that was tongue-in-cheek. I love everything about 洪"三毛", except perhaps that he had the misfortune to direct both Jackie and Jet in bad films (一個好人 and 黃飛鴻之西域雄獅), and perhaps the fact that he chose to use his scowly/growly 殺破狼 face in his HK watch ads. The business card anecdote is all too easy to believe, and I'm sure isn't limited to Westerners , Wing Chun or CMA. We seem to be drowning in Great Gurus, Premium Pendekars and Super Sifus of every nationality! :( I'm sure it's a good story, but I have to say that your own story about the letter from the extremely modest Dai Sifu is a hoot and a half :) And I agree that what is left in the Mainland is so close to nothing that it is barely worth mentioning. (HK lawyer and devout Buddhist 翁靜晶's declaration that there was a grand total of zero monks when they arrived at the Temple to film comes to mind, and of course the hooplah in recent years about Wing Chun "returning" to the Temple is just plain embarrassing) However, I wouldn't discount it entirely. Not all of the old masters fled or were eradicated. Some merely stopped teaching for the duration (arguably decades) when it was unsafe to do so. I have had the great pleasure of meeting a few very accomplished, thoroughly traditional individuals I would say are easily on par with any member of the diaspora. (Not many though!) I can't pinpoint at what time "mister" became the standard translation of 先生, and yes, I readily acknowledge that its usage within CMA is way outside the statistical average. I suspect though, that in the school I mentioned, and in a (higher level) nuanced fashion, it is striking something of a cultural balance; on the one hand representing the modern informal politeness (informal formality??) of addressing a respected figure as Mister, and on the other, harking back to the actual meaning of the composite characters (as found in the Japanese styles) and thus having a similarly respectful meaning to 前輩. A pleasure chatting with you. Hope we get to do it in person some day :)
What about someone who is the actual greatest Wing Tsun practitioner in the world? You’re not the highest ranked, for example, but you could still beat any other Wing Tsun practitioner in the world. Couldn’t you then call your self Dai Sifu?
My Sifu once told me there was a Wing Chun Teacher in the uk that literally sat on a throne and made his students take one knee in front of him. I thought he was messing around until one class I assisted a new starter with past experience introduced to our class structure. After the class Sifu mentioned to me She had trained under that teacher.
Chris Pole crazy stuff
That’s way out of hand. Not right. A simple bow.
You really have to do more of these, love it. Oh and btw: 3:48 😂
Martin Dlugi thank you! I liked the laugh track too...
What happens if I make people call me "小師傅"?
AdventureArchives or maybe “中師傅”
Hi, first great compliment to the channel and the awesome production quality. It can become a difficult subject bringing a martial art to another country/culture. Surely many times the gwai lo displays many miststeps and might even come across as disrespectful in a differnt cultural environment. It is also true though that particularly Wing Chun teachers sometimes teach their western students those very not-asian titles, forms, student grades, newly formed drills with the claim that those things are "traditionel" or authentic in the first place. These changes or additions are usually done for marketing purposes and have nothing to do with lineage, tradition or the art itself,
Excellently explained! I enjoyed your video and hope people stop the embarrassing insistence of referring to themselves as “Big Sifu”. They don’t understand the Chinese language and also probably the concept of 武德 (Martial Morality) which includes having humility. If someone was to call a person “Dai Sifu” to their face, it actually sounds like they are being sarcastic. The variation of “Dai Si” which you have mentioned would be the better alternative but even then we would usually only call Buddhist monks or Taoist priests this to their face, for any other person in a manual skilled profession “Sifu” is enough. A fancy title doesn’t mean people respect you and in this case using “Dai Sifu” makes you sound like a fool.
100% correct, perfectly put. In fact, you said it better than I did!
Here in the Philippines, there are a lot of titles for those who are teaching Wing Chun. Some calls themselves Grandmasters, Sifu, Great Teacher and many others. It's like a way they can boost their ego. "Coach" simply ain't good for them.
I recently found a guy calling himself DAI SIFU here on UA-cam.
This reminds me of how folks in Japanese martial arts have hijacked the term, "shihan." THAT term is a legitimate "honorific," but is both improper and impractical in proper Japanese speech. However, it has become so pervasive that even Japanese teachers relent and allow their students to call them that, if only to avoid the linguistic argument. However, those who actually SPEAK or UNDERSTAND a modicum of Japanese tend to at the very least, politely smile (and laugh internally).
What's actually worse to me though, is when STUDENTS get MAD when you DON'T use the terms, "Dai-Sifu" or "Shihan."
Shihan is improper? What do you mean? My teachers use it as an honorific in their school in Tokyo. It means instructor.
When new students would ask my former JKD instructor what should we call you, he would jokingly reply " Refer to me as ULTIMATE SUPREME SUPER GRAND MASTER...."or something to that affect.
Obviously showing that he didn't take certain self-proclaimed titles seriously😄
This is neat stuff. For me I've always heard "Dai Sifu" as simply the eldest Sifu. Or basically the eldest instructor of your immediate WT family.
Nope, it's an inflated phony title that should never be used except with sarcasm.
Heyy, nice topic. My teacher we call him with his normal name. He is from nino bernardo line age and we like him
that's good that you like the guy you are learning from, it would be weird if you did not like him.
great video. in my former school they always told us when we crossed the arms infront of the sifu it means a challenge in china. so that you want to fight against the sifu. is this true?
David Haha mileage may vary depending on the school, but it’s more like if your SiFu is explaining and your arms are crossed it just comes off a bit prickish like “yeah yeah yeah I know already”.
Outstanding
Thank you!
If the title of "dai sifu" in you public name is wonky, seeing people have "sihing" as their public title makes me want to just perfect defensive badminton and call it a day.
hahahaha
⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️
Just luv it!!! #TruthHurts btw. I am your Dai-Fan!
Everyone must call you Dai Fan now
@@TheKungFuGenius I knowwww, that was the plan! Hope it does not mean something really disgusting in Cantonese!
Sup Dai-fan!
Dude sifu !
You need... well, I NEED you to make more Kuen Kuit shirts😂 !
( Now that you know how to design your books by yourself, one or two more shirts should be easy😉 ?)
But Now, let's be serious, I stopped the video at 4:32 when I saw you on your throne !!! You need to make a t shirt with it and offer it to Sean one day when he will deserve it... if he behave well during a DOKF.... Well we can wait !
😈😈😈
Thank for the video !
Nico, another Dude from France
nicolas delor, now Dude Sifu can be a cool title.
@@carol2094 Dai sifu or Dude sifu.... It's maybe just misspelled?
Great Coach Jim
😄😆😂🤣🤣😭😭😭😭😭
🤣🤣😭🤣😭🤣😭🤣🤣😭🤣🤣
Made my hole day 😅
Hahah thanks!
I wonder who this ominous guy from Buxtehude is🤔
Joey Thietje using Buxtehude like we use “BFE” in America (Google it).
It's like this Bruce Lee stepped into acting as a different type of character than he did as kid. Reserve , humble & caution in The Big Boss til he knew his way around . Then The Chinese Connection as an intense violent Foe for those who killed his teacher. Bruce brought out the dangerous stills of a pupil in in morning 😓& RAGE 😡 over the circumstances of his teachers' murder!! After that ( this where your 🤡 character comes in my View) Bruce makes Way of the Dragon 🐉, a very different funny & light ❤ film Bruce gave to his audience ,yet, telling a story about working folks from a foreign land sharing their way of food delicacies peacefully & undisturbed ( which around the 🌍 folks ❤ Chinese food) We as martial artists needs to show the 🌍 the humorous side of our
personalities!! We don't want to show we're violent trouble makers with no sense of being civilized 🙏.
Can I be dai-Sidai?
Wing Tsun Clan the dai-ist of all the si-dai
Intriguing🤭
Not really, this is a non-issue that unfortunately needed clarification.
More like dai see fut. Read my mind.🤣
Put simply, ‘Dai Sifu’ isn’t a title. So don’t use it to avoid embarrassment. Lol
Would have been a much shorter video if I just said that... unfortunately I had to tiptoe this topic as I have beloved si-hings who subscribe to it 😜
Would have been a much shorter video if I just said that... unfortunately I had to tiptoe this topic as I have beloved si-hings who subscribe to it ... but, yeah, pretty much what you said 👍🏻
The Kung Fu Genius of course, totally get that you would make a whole video of it. Actually I really appreciate it that you go into detail with the cultural side of things. It annoys me so much as well when I hear stuff that’s made up. Lol
Only at the most basic level of colloquial Chinese does 大 mean "big" (as per Sifu Subtitles).
I'm sure someone as well versed in Chinese language and culture as the Kung Fu Genius(1) is well aware of 中國古代四大美女 (The Four Great Beauties of Ancient China), for example.
Can one not either be great, and/or be awarded the title of "Great"?
(Not a title one should award oneself of course, or even use when it has been bestowed upon one).
Throughout Asian culture, someone might be just a regular Raja, but someone else might be a Maha Raja. ("Maha" means great, as in "Maha Atma (Great Soul)" Gandhi). Ueshiba Morohei is universally revered as "O-sensei" (大先生)
*
* Aikido is not my field of expertise. I suspect the title might have been awarded posthumously.
I would also add that merely because someone speaks Chinese, or actually is Chinese, doesn't mean that they have a comprehensive understanding of the history, intricacies and regional variations of either the language or martial arts.(2)
That seems to be especially true today, when there as many charlatans and poseurs with grand titles in the East as in the West.
(Personally, I am familiar with people in the Mainland who claim to have studied directly under 葉問 or 李小龍 :l)
Do you render "sifu" as 師父 or 師傅?
There is no absolute rule. It depends on the region/school/lineage you belong to.
Perhaps also worth considering is that, as with so many aspects of language, titles have changed around the world, according to the times, culture, region and personal preference. Remember when "gay" meant happy and "dumb" meant mute?
"Tuhon" and "Grand Tuhon", for example, are very recent innovations in FMA.
Like Mr Genius, I abhor the pretentiousness and self-aggrandisement of "Dai Sifu".
But within any system, it is useful to have a way to distinguish between your immediate teacher, and their teacher.
If it's troublesome to teach Westerners about familial terms such as 師公 or 前輩, perhaps Dai Sifu might serve a purpose in that context.
(I'm not saying definitively that is does, just making an observation)
1) I understand and appreciate how Richter Sifu came to be known as the Kung Fu Genius, and would learn from him in a heartbeat if I had the opportunity.
But it has probably been observed previously that to the lay-person, the title could seem every bit as pompous as "Dai Sifu".
2) In my own Hong Kong lineage, descended from a good friend of 葉問, the teacher is traditionally addressed as 先生.
What? You've never encountered that in the context of Chinese martial arts before?
That's exactly why, despite agreeing 100% with Richter Sifu, I do not rush in to judge the terminology used by certain schools. Even if it is used by arrogant and/or ignorant Westerners (or Chinese) for the purpose of stroking one's ego and/or fleecing gullible Bruce Lee wannabees.
Okay, rant over.
Peace and good will to all of my kung fu brothers and sisters.
patgol2 well said!
I will give you a more thoughtful response to your points when I have a little bit more time, but I thank you very much for contributing as you clearly have a deep understanding for this topic.
@@TheKungFuGenius , I would be flattered, but please don't waste your time.
You absolutely nailed it.
My comments are merely a feeble echo of the succinct and spot-on points you made with your trademark mix of insight, clarity and humour.
I look forward to your future commentaries, observations and debunkings :)
The reason I wanted to reply more formally is because you make some really great points that I wanted to address and clarify. I agree with most of your points, and this isn't a counterpoint reply - just a clarification on some things you mentioned that I may not have been clear on. First and foremost, my channel is mostly for Wing Chun practitioners, and in particular "Hong Kong Yip Man Wing Chun", and even more in particular Wing Tsun (WT), aka the "Leung Ting line". So anything that sounds like I'm berating someone is because I'm usually calling out behavior of my own colleagues (Sifu Leung Ting explicitly told me "Dai Sifu" is not a thing in his WT association). As I've had more exposure to the Hong Kong source of WT than most of my European WT brothers, I roll my eyes at the misappropriation of titles that supposedly exist in our line of WT. These misappropriations often come from self-titled European Grandmasters who couldn't order tea in Cantonese if you held a gun to their heads - yet they paradoxically want to be taken seriously in their unnuanced misuse of Chinese terminology.
Like you mentioned, the use of family-oriented titles in Chinese martial arts vary from style to style and region to region, but the version that I teach my students (and on this channel) is very common in Hong Kong (and Cantonese-based martial arts). Most of my Hong Kong colleagues in Choy Lay Fat, Hung Gar, Southern Mantis etc. apply the family titles exactly the same as we do in Wing Tsun. Most police officers in Hong Kong apply the same family distinctions to colleagues (Si-Hing, Si-Dai) making what I teach and explain pretty mainstream. That's not to claim I'm without error, but I don't have a worldview of Chinese family terms that is coming out of left field. If we follow statistics as a model, we must remove extremes on both sides of the equation to find the median - the teacher who prefers just to be called "mister" is just as much an anomaly as the one who requires his students to call him "Dai Sifu" in Hong Kong. I'm looking for the mainstream understood use in Hong Kong-based Chinese martial arts. The problem with these types of videos is that people often comment back with "yeah but in my school (insert more formal/less formal use of terms)". They assume their own subjective experience somehow reflects the aggregate of Chinese culture rather than simply being the echo chamber that it usually is. I know that things can be different outside of my school and I expect other people to know that to. But most don't know anything outside of their own walled garden of Kung Fu.
I also mentioned that people are free to use whatever titles they want in their own association. That doesn't make them right - it just it was it is. I could say my students have to call me "Dai Si-Gung Sifu Master" everytime they address me. This might be "right" in my association, but that doesn't mean its a proper application of Chinese martial arts culture. Too many associations try to use the "this is our rule" to slip grandiose titles under the radar.
I also don't pay much attention to Mainland Chinese practices of "traditional" martial arts titling. The Cultural Revolution was not kind to traditional Chinese culture in Mainland China, and what is left today is something "different". We find more accurate examples of traditional Chinese cultural in both Taiwan and Hong Kong. For this matter, one of my good friends is a Wushu master from Wuhan China who graduated with a master degree in martial arts. I've had conversations with her at length about these topics, and well, Mainland China doesn't really follow the old way of these titles. So I respectfully leave anything that is done in "China" out of the argument.
I do mention in the video that daai (大) means great, not just "big". Through both my channel and podcast I'm attempting to educate those who generally don't know A1 about Chinese. Like WT, I start from the most fundamental to the most nuanced. What I will say about your comparison to the translation of Maha Raja etc. is that the use of daai (大) is quite common in Chinese for these types of religious titles or names of spiritual leaders. Kung Fu Sifu, at least in modern Hong Kong culture, are not revered in the same way as religious leaders, just ask my wife! For that reason I find the equating the use of "daai" to religious title translations a bit of an apples and oranges comparison. Hell, taxi drivers in Hong Kong can be addressed as Sifu (師傅) due to their expertise in driving a taxi. For that matter, there is a difference between 師父 and 師傅. The fact that many modern Chinese don't know that distinction doesn't change that fact. My wife, who is Chinese, graduated top of her class as a lawyer from Hong Kong University and didn't know the distinction, but her father, who was not as highly educated, nor a martial artist, did. I'm started to feel that the misunderstanding of these two "Sifu" terms for modern Chinese is like the youth of today conflating "your" and "you're". Ignorance doesn't make it correct, nor does it make those two terms equal.
I did a dive on family titles and the differences of Sifu terms here: ua-cam.com/video/0A2DG4_uT5Y/v-deo.html
As for the use in Japanese martial arts like "O'Sensei", I agree with you that this was most likely posthumous in the case of the founder of Aikido. However, this is another issue similar to the religious titling. Japanese martial arts terminology (titles etc.) draw a lot from Chinese characters, but that doesn't mean that their use is one-to-one the same as in Chinese. One must be cautious when comparing the more title-based Japanese martial arts hierachy with the patriach-based family titles of Chinese martial arts. Not a solid comparison.
My test for any westerner who claims Dai Sifu is a thing is to print business cards with their name and title of "Dai Sifu". Go to Hong Kong and hand this to a legit Sifu of any style. You will undoubtedly be greeted with ill-concealed laughter. Sammo Hung berated an Australian Wing Chun sifu for having the title "master" in English on his card. Very funny story, and Sammo's reaction was in line with what many Sifu would have done.
And you are right about Kung Fu Genius being pompous, but anyone who knows me knows that it is used in the most ironic way. I spend most of my time conversing with those far more knowledgeable than myself in martial arts. I'm rarely the genius in any conversation I have with Hong Kong Sifu of any style. I got the nickname from the Hong Kong newspaper Apple Daily which reported on a spat I got into with my former teacher Sifu Leung Ting. After years of representing him and learning from him, he told the newspaper that I only learned for one week from him. When the newspaper asked me for a comment, I said "one week? I must be a Kung Fu genius then"... The original print of that story used the Genius thing in bold and so the nickname stuck from my Hong Kong colleagues.
But unlike many of my Kung Fu brothers in Europe who insist on being called "Dai Sifu", I have never, nor will I ever, insist on being called The Kung Fu Genius.
Hey, I take it back! Feel free to use your time as you wish.
Anything you have to say is always worth reading of hearing :)
Again, I agree wholesale. Indian kings and Japanese martial traditions (while fascinating in and of themselves), don't necessarily have anything whatever to do with Chinese cultural conventions.
And I suspect it is true within "traditional" cultures around the world that an academically accomplished member the younger generation simply may not have the deep appreciation of shades and subtleties of the culture that an older member (possibly without any formal education) might possess.
Appreciating all (or at least many) things Chinese as you and I do, it's heartbreaking to see that knowledge dying off.
I know that you're aware of uses/meanings of "大". I only mentioned it because "Big Sifu" appears in another comment, and I'm pretty sure that was tongue-in-cheek.
I love everything about 洪"三毛", except perhaps that he had the misfortune to direct both Jackie and Jet in bad films (一個好人 and 黃飛鴻之西域雄獅), and perhaps the fact that he chose to use his scowly/growly 殺破狼 face in his HK watch ads.
The business card anecdote is all too easy to believe, and I'm sure isn't limited to Westerners , Wing Chun or CMA.
We seem to be drowning in Great Gurus, Premium Pendekars and Super Sifus of every nationality! :(
I'm sure it's a good story, but I have to say that your own story about the letter from the extremely modest Dai Sifu is a hoot and a half :)
And I agree that what is left in the Mainland is so close to nothing that it is barely worth mentioning.
(HK lawyer and devout Buddhist 翁靜晶's declaration that there was a grand total of zero monks when they arrived at the Temple to film comes to mind, and of course the hooplah in recent years about Wing Chun "returning" to the Temple is just plain embarrassing)
However, I wouldn't discount it entirely.
Not all of the old masters fled or were eradicated. Some merely stopped teaching for the duration (arguably decades) when it was unsafe to do so. I have had the great pleasure of meeting a few very accomplished, thoroughly traditional individuals I would say are easily on par with any member of the diaspora.
(Not many though!)
I can't pinpoint at what time "mister" became the standard translation of 先生, and yes, I readily acknowledge that its usage within CMA is way outside the statistical average. I suspect though, that in the school I mentioned, and in a (higher level) nuanced fashion, it is striking something of a cultural balance; on the one hand representing the modern informal politeness (informal formality??) of addressing a respected figure as Mister, and on the other, harking back to the actual meaning of the composite characters (as found in the Japanese styles) and thus having a similarly respectful meaning to 前輩.
A pleasure chatting with you.
Hope we get to do it in person some day :)
All of this is keith kernie bussines stuff, he have done so much bad things to wing tsun
That's why it's a good thing we have people like you to show us the way!
What about someone who is the actual greatest Wing Tsun practitioner in the world? You’re not the highest ranked, for example, but you could still beat any other Wing Tsun practitioner in the world. Couldn’t you then call your self Dai Sifu?
In that situation you could call yourself Grand Moff Sifu.