The Orion went from looking like someone trying to build a fat Xenomorph out of a FrankenMech, to the Orion IIC looking like a gigantic walking fridge.
@@gregdomenico1891 I still prefer the newest Catalyst Orion, as ShimmeringSword tries to recreate the model to make it at least look like a walking tank. The original one drawn by Duane Loose looks like a robot mummy that has a garden hose glued to its waist... Let's see how ShimmeringSword's gonna recreate the Orion IIC.
Oh that's easy, we love the two little robot antennas on the head Nah, its because its got the kinds of traits to make a massive amount of weapons tonnage hit home and kill the absolute f--- out of anything you're shooting at at any range. You really have to start getting into crazy-land with some of the omni's before they carry about that many weapons around and personally I like the HAG. If I was being a complete mercenary degenerate about it, I'd be ok with some MML's or MRM's in there too
I love this becaude funnily enough, when I'm playing mW5 with clantech this id my go-to mech design before i even knee what the Orion IIC was. The combination of no min long tabge wealons means that this thing still acts as a brawler, no matter the range, but it especially can and will demolish anyone at ranges beyond that of most inner sphere mechs.
I think I like the Burton variant best, but the MF2 ain’t bad either. It feels like the weird love-child of an Orion and Thunderbolt, held together with Clan-spec duct tape. It’s real cool
Another case of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it. ...unless you can add a little clan tech." The ER Large Lasers are a nice bonus though, even if it runs hot. My only real tweak to the design would to drop the ER Large Lasers and put a pair of ER Medium Lasers in place of each, along with a couple heat sinks. If there isn't enough space, I'd change a pair of ER Mediums with medium pulse lasers. Oh, and I'd swap the LRM and SRM's places.
@@MechanicalFrog Yeah, the other thing I considered to free up tonnage was to swap the Gauss Rifle for a LB-10X and dropping the LRM 20 to a 15 and a ton of LRM ammo to free up the same amount of tonnage for heat sinks (Don't know what to do with the half-ton left over, I'd probably use it for armor). It would get the same number of heat sinks, but I felt I preferred the punch the gauss rifle brings. I also felt that the 4 ERMLs returned the IIC to it's roots a little more.
Always love the Orion for its fluff and description more than anything else. This old, clunky, deadly brawler of a mech. It somehow manages to fit into any time era, from Star League to 3025 to Clan Invasion to Republic of the Sphere. So yeah, I'll take any of the variants. And probably die cursing the SRMS, as is my usual schtick. :D
The Burton variant is incredibly impressive. I have my own variant, leaning more into the anti-air role: iATM 6, ER Large Laser, Plasma Cannon, ER Medium Laser, AMS, HAG/20, Watchdog CEWS, C3 slave. Is it better? I don't know, but it's certainly interesting!
After watching the video I put together my own take. Large pulse laser in the right arm, Ultra AC/10 in the right torso with 3 tons of ammo. ATM9 in the Left with one of each of the reloads, and a trio of ER medium lasers in the left arm. An extra two double heat sinks help but the thing definitely has the potential to run hot. The overall temptation is to drop some of the ammo (A ton of Ultra rounds, and the Standard range missiles for the ATM) to put another two doubles in there. It hampers endurance, but the additional cooling would keep it much more under control. Still 50/50 on it. Either way, another great video, and I'm loving the custom MF variants you're making for these. Theory crafting and mech tuning is something I love and is what got me into the game in the first place, so seeing people engaging in that side always makes me happy!
Gotta give it to the clans here, if there's a man worthy of adoration and worship, it's definitely Alexander Kerensky. It helps the Orion was already a reliable machine with few weaknesses, the Orion IIC just helps it maintain that reliability.
During one campaign i had a custom orion iic as a merc. It had only heavy lasers and inferno missles. Called it the tenderizer. Killed so many of my own pilots , that i had a higher kill count against myself then my friends did by the end.
I created my own custom variant of the Orion IIC after watching this vid - I seem to create custom variants after watching each of your 'Mech vids, lol. The Orion IIC "Salt" uses mixed tech, though the only IS components on it is the Plasma Rifle/w 3 tons of ammo. The rest of the loadout consists of a Clan LB-10X with 3 tons of ammo, and a Clan ATM-6 with one ton of each type of ammo. It adds 3 extra double heat sinks to this ammo-dependent variant, and a Clan Light Active Probe rounds out its tonnage. Though I haven't worked out the lore yet, I will say that "Salt" was built off of a Clan Wolf chassis that - for reasons unknown - was not equipped with any weapons prior to it disappearing from a Wolf factory in the Wolf Empire sometime in 3151.
@@MechanicalFrog And to top it off, it's affordable for a Clan heavy. If not for the likelihood of a Clan Wolf vengeance strike, stealing the plans could be quite profitable.
@@MechanicalFrogyeah, but to invoke their wrath is a gamble. Though if it couldn't be brought to bear, then proliferating the old pride of the pack could maybe help restore finances of a battered house.
I have never understood and this mech is the perfect example of this Multiple separate ammo dependent weapons One is great. Two is o.k. here by the time we get to the mf-2 model that can be fitted with 7 different ammo types and a minimum of three. Why not just srms why not just lrms or just ATMs but no we're going to mix them and have ballistic ammo as well. The great jack of all trades til it runs out of shots. Rationalising the weapons means you can have more of the right ammo and fight at the right range where you can bring your ideal weight to the fight.
To paraphrase Fozzie Bear from the Muppet Movie: "A Kerensky in his natural habitat... a Studebaker." Jokes aside, the deliberate use of two different models of ER L Lasers in the stock variant of the IIC feels like a logistical headache.
Another great evolution of a great mech :-) the orion is a mech ive used a lot...tough and useful at every range if not a bit dated....thanks for giving us this overview :-)
If you want an Orion IIC variant...alright. I'll give you two. Unlike Clan Wolf, I have no compunction for hero worship and find the classic Orion to be the most El Generico Heavy Mech available. Not great, not bad, but a solid all-rounder that doesn't really excite. (I greatly prefer the Marauder at its weight unless I need fire-support. Then, I'll take an Archer.) Once again, there are two paths before me that depend on which Clan XL Engine rules I'm using. (Battletech or Mechwarrior) BATTLETECH FIT: Lets keep the engine as a Standard 300 and the armor scheme as-is. It's pretty good protection after all. -WEAPONRY: 2x Clan ERPPC, one in each arm. Right Torso: LB 10-X for shotgun justice fed by two tons of ammo 2x Small Pulse Lasers in the Left Torso to give the mech a real option vs those small, squishy things running around the battlefield with danger-lights and danger-pylons. -INTERNALS: 17x Double Heatsinks and a Targeting Computer (also in the LT) will let the Orion fire its three main weapons freely and accurately, even while on the move. It's a pretty basic sniper mech that hits fairly hard at all ranges without sacrificing significant protection, or demanding significant cost. (I'm still not a fan of LRM barrages under 30, though I will credit the Orion IIC for at least leaning into that range bracket with ER-Large Lasers; which is my preferred support energy weapon for LRMs) MECHWARRIOR FIT: I need to take this thing back to its brawling roots because all the weapon hardpoints but the torso missile battery are well below the cockpit; greatly limiting its potential as an effective point-and-peek sniper. Fortunately, Clan XL Engines are still bullshit OP in Mechwarrior and that is what will save this mech from mediocrity in the long run. -ENGINE: Clan XL 335 (should give a max speed of around 72km/h) -WEAPONRY: 4x Clan Medium Pulse Lasers (two per arm), an LB 20-X super-shotgun (right torso) w/3 tons of ammo, and an ATM-9 in the left torso with 3 tons of ammo. (1 ton of Explosive for BRAWLHAWLLA, 1 ton of standard, 1 ton of Extended Range for pelting turrets with spotter assistance) -INTERNALS: 15 double heatsinks (13 in the engine, 1 in each arm), 1x Clan Laser AMS mounted in the head, and 3x Jump Jets (Heavy) distributed between the center torso and legs (1 apiece). Ammo is kept in the left torso and legs. (to allow for arm-shielding; loading the munitions into the arms would be the saner option if this were the tabletop, but in Mechwarrior, being able to torso twist into incoming fire to sacrifice arm durability will keep the ammo-dependent torso weaponry running longer) The remaining 0.5 ton of space goes into armor.
It's my favorite Wolverine, I often make custom refits based on it all with the model designation starting with "FNK"....I'll let you guess what it stands for but a hint is its a 4 letter word and a name 😁
My favorite heavy Mech gone Clan. Interestingly, the Orion IIC also shows up on the Republic of the Sphere List up until their fall, so apparently they picked some off the Wolves at some point. Clan Woof Woof also missed their grandpappy's mech so much they decided to build the Orion C after conquering Kalidasa, and then the C2 in 3142 and 3143 for general use
@@MechanicalFrog the Orion C popped up in TRO 3150 under 3145 New Tech, New Upgrades and was added in the new 3150 sheets Catalyst released in August I believe. The Cyclops C2 is in one of the new Recguides
My personal build of the Orion IIC sports an ER Large Laser in each arm, and a HAG40 in the right torso to reach out and touch the enemy at long range, and three SRM 6's split between the left arm and left torso for when the enemy gets close enough for a nice warm hug with self-propelled explosives.
Hmmm... If I'd build it using MWO's mechlab: I guess I'd throw together for my Orion IIC two ERPPC's (one per arm), LB20-X (right torso) with 3-3,5 tons of ammo (both solid and cluster), Streak SRM 6 (left torso) with 1-1,5 tons of ammo, 20 DHS's so it can shoot almost forever, XL-engine 300, endosteel structure and most of the armor it can get. I'd be a heretic for sure if I'd slap those arm actuators into it as well, but.. Even if I did make it have some actual fingers, it's better used for shooting anyway. Option two would be the same, but replace the LB20-X & ammo with a HAG 20 with 3-3,5 tons of ammo and add a an extra Streak SRM 4 (left arm or left torso).
How I would outfit one of these beauties depends on if I'm playing tabletop or PC simulation. It pays to balance the load-out on tabletop while a PC game can quickly become a matter of just piling in heat sinks and medium to long-range energy weapons with some jump jets to reposition as necessary.
Personally, I prefer two very similar variations. One of them with two C-erPPC two SSRM6 with two tons of ammunition a LAMS a target computer for the PPC (3 tons) and 19 DHS (including the 10 + 2 in the reactor) and 12 tons of C-FF and Internal Structure of Endo Steel and a 300 standar fusion engine. And my second choice is 3 C-LPLs one per arm and one in the central torso. 4 C-ERSL (one in the head two in a lateral torso and one in the other) And a targeting computer for all weapons (4 tons on it) of course 19 DHs on total. And the same 12 tons of C-FF and Endo Steel armor for the internal structure and the same 300 Standar fusion engine. The first variant is deadly if you can afford to target a specific area. The second is an almost constant hammer even at long distances. It also keeps fighting until the end even though the damage has been really severe.
My personal Orion IIC looks a little like this (all Clan tech, obviously): Upgrade 300 std to XL, keep the Endo Steel and Ferro Fibrous Add Light Active Probe Head: LAMS RA: LP Laser and MP Laser LA: 2x MP Laser RT: Gauss w/. 3T of ammo LT: ATM12 w/. 3T of ammo Heat sinks: 15 Double Which should leave 12 T for armour.
I would go off of the Burton design. I would drop the JJs for a supercharger. Not quite as versatile, but better for weight and space. Hag 20 in the RT with three t ammo, ATM 6 in the LT with three tons, ERLL in the RA, LPL and tag system in the LA. I would also add a targeting computer and command cockpit as I think this works wonders as a command mech due to its anti-aircraft quirk: (hag would be at -4 and the LPL would be at -3 vs fliers). Good ar, passable mobility, and 58 damage possible makes for a very scary command/fire support mech.
Another great video MF!! As the original Orion is one of my favorites, I want to love the IIC, but beind undersinked just kills the base mech IMO. My preference is to drop the SRM4 and downgrade the LRM20 to a LRM15 and go to 2 tons of ammo which give you enough for 4 more heatsinks. You lose some of the "Orion-ness" without the SRM, but I just hate being undersinked because of a back-up weapon. I really like the MF version - a really nasty upgrade while staying true to the orignal bad ass brawler!!
The Orion iic c in mwo is awesome. Got 2 uac10s 2ermediums 45lrms. Tad slow. But it can shell out as much as 2 catapults. I call it SiriusRistar. I'll just go slow and lrm until the lights catch up 2 Me then dakka anyone that thinks I was an easy target. Using my left empty ammo lrm side as extra armour. Love the thing.
Burtons mechs nice. Like the slrm ATM hag erlarge combo might not have penetrating power. However you do not wanna be flying any aerospace fighters near that thing. Got a feeling regulator hovertanks vs this thing would be a fun fight as well. Use him on asymmetric targets. Leaving kai to headshot all the mechs with a gauss slug. If anyone gets close it can critt seek.
Well its solid. I don't really know what to add. Like the other IIC mechs the Orion IIC is a stable upgrade to the original Orion. Its a bit more flawed then the others as it overheats and it rather ammunition tight. I would probably take off the Gauss Rifle, replace it with second LRM-20 launcher, take off the SRM-4 launcher, then add more heat sinks and ammunition. It would be more like an Archer Wolf. My personal experiences using the original Orion are rare. They werent in Mechwarrior 2-4 or Mechcommander 1-2. They were in Battletech2018 PC game. There I didnt like them much as despite being a fairly solid heavy mech at 75tons they require a LOT of time modifying them in the Mechbays to give them more heat sinks, or switching to any other build. By default the Orion is kind of a Master-Of-None.. I personally preferred mechs that got patched in, The Warhammer and especially the Marauder.
@@MechanicalFrog Curious. Based on my understanding of PPCs, you wouldn't expect the snub nose to go extinct, if anything you would almost expect them to start to happen naturally with wear and tear on standard PPCs. Unless there is a fine line between a working snub nose and an explosion that even in the Succession Wars people weren't willing to toy with.
He did. Alex's Orion has a nice little history before it became a museum piece on Solaris VII. The thing about that mech that always gets to me is how the Goliath Scorpions showed up to claim the museum it was part of.
@@Accentaur Yeah, Goliath Scorpions showed up out of the blue on Solaris 7 to trial for the whole museum and Big Daddy K's Orion specifically. Once they won they cleaned out the place and peaced out. Can you even imagine the reaction on Wolf Guards when bunch of Scorpion Seekers barged in on their turf out of nowhere after not even hearing anything about them for nearly a century? They thought they came to trial for the whole planet, instead they just wanted that juicy museum and Kerensky's vintage cockpit
Indeed. Have you ever played with floating TAC's? In other words, after a 2 is rolled, you roll another hit location and apply the TAC to that new location. Absolutely brutal. Yeah, engine and gyro pops are nice, but seeing all of a leg's internals evaporate can be fun too!
Nope it's not. The Snubby was experimental during the Star Leauge. Then we lost all of the good stuff,, but Blessed Blake came back with his blessed lightning guns aplenty and the Inner Sphere has never been the same since. Praise Blake and his eternal signal.
Okay is there an Atlas IIV? I know there's an Atlas II 🙂. Just wondering where the IIC gravy train ends 🤫... But that's okay, I think Frog will then design his own The Frog IIC, the Toad IIC, the Amphibian IIC, the Reptile IIC, Etc 😀😃.
5:42 f the lore around the Republic of the Sphere annoyed me , how is the planet Liao not a legitimate part of the Capellan Confederation ? You may as well say Capella and Sian aren't Capellan worlds ....... Good riddance that the ROS is kaput
It's all very silly but it reinforces the historical principle that you can tell a lot about a person by the arbitrary point in history where they want to start keeping score.
If I remember right, they moved the Capitol to Sian during the Age of War, due to Capella being too close to both the Davion and Hegemony. Place has changed hands almost as much as Terra by now.
"Legitimate" is a very loaded word. The history is explained in a book called Wars of the Republic Era, which is quite good. Basically, what happened is that the Word of Blake captured many former Capellan worlds (but not Liao itself). The Capellan Confederation refused to cooperate with Devlin Stone's Allied Coalition in fighting the Word of Blake, instead trying to reclaim their lost territory in their own and sometimes clashing with Stone-allied forces. Though the CCAF was partially successful, when the Allied Coalition defeated the Word of Blake on Terra, they did not return the remaining formerly-Capellan worlds to the Confederation. When the Republic of the Sphere was formed in March 3081, Chancellor Sun-Tzu Liao refused to sign the Republic Formation Treaty, and instead demanded the Republic return all formerly Capellan worlds to the Confederation, including ones which hadn't been controlled by the Confederation since the Fourth Succession War a half-century prior. Both the Republic government and most of the formerly-Capellan worlds refused, and Sun-Tzu and the Confederation, enraged, begane preparing for war, spreading propaganda that these planets were being held against their will by the Republic. When the former Free Worlds League attempted to invade the nascent Republic to reclaim their former worlds later in 3081, Sun-Tzu took advantage of the distraction to do the same, launching Operation GOLDEN FORTRESS. Though the Republic was initially caught off-guard and lost Tikonov, Stone's Brigade counteroffensive (Operation VINDOLANDA) recaptured Tikonov and pushed into the Confederation, taking Liao and a number of other worlds before Sun-Tzu Liao signed the Treaty of Tikonov in 3085, ending the war with the CCAF (already not recovered from fighting the Blakists) spent and Liao hiding a simmering rage that culminated in 3110, a quarter-century later, when the Maskirovka enacted Operation CELESTIAL SPEAR, a covert attack on Liao to infiltrate BattleMech forces and kill as many Republic supporters as possible in what would be called the Massacre of Liao, killing over a hundred thousand civilians and kicking off the Capellan Crusades, the largest conflict in the Inner Sphere since the end of the war against the Word of Blake.
hear me out, we take the burton, downgrade the streak lrm 15 to a normal one, drop the atm 3, then, ER PPCs instead of ER Larges. you now have a more dangerous long range support mech.
Actually, no. Replace the ER Large lasers with ER Mediums, upgrade the gauss to a HAG 20 with 4 tons of ammo. drop the torso srm 4, add a Stream SRM 6 on each arm with two tons of ammo. And blammo, you got the Orion IIC-V. a devastating brawler that will survive most anything. could also drop a ton of ammo for the lrm for a center torso or head mounted ER medium so you can stay in the fight no matter what.
The Orion went from looking like someone trying to build a fat Xenomorph out of a FrankenMech, to the Orion IIC looking like a gigantic walking fridge.
Have you seen the new artwork for the Orion? Looks like someone mated an original Orion with a Ostroc. Way too rounded.
It's definitely not my favorite IIC art.
@@gregdomenico1891 I still prefer the newest Catalyst Orion, as ShimmeringSword tries to recreate the model to make it at least look like a walking tank. The original one drawn by Duane Loose looks like a robot mummy that has a garden hose glued to its waist...
Let's see how ShimmeringSword's gonna recreate the Orion IIC.
@@gregdomenico1891New Orion is great, they hit the sweet spot
Yeah and I bet you put faeces in your fridge
And it all started in 1984. Thank you Jordan Weisman and L. Ross Babcock.
Good times had by all.
Why do we love Mech Frog's IIC videos? I can't get enough.
Maybe it's a virus or something...
Oh that's easy, we love the two little robot antennas on the head
Nah, its because its got the kinds of traits to make a massive amount of weapons tonnage hit home and kill the absolute f--- out of anything you're shooting at at any range. You really have to start getting into crazy-land with some of the omni's before they carry about that many weapons around and personally I like the HAG.
If I was being a complete mercenary degenerate about it, I'd be ok with some MML's or MRM's in there too
You had me at mercenary degenerate.
I love this becaude funnily enough, when I'm playing mW5 with clantech this id my go-to mech design before i even knee what the Orion IIC was. The combination of no min long tabge wealons means that this thing still acts as a brawler, no matter the range, but it especially can and will demolish anyone at ranges beyond that of most inner sphere mechs.
Always dangerous, this one.
I think I like the Burton variant best, but the MF2 ain’t bad either. It feels like the weird love-child of an Orion and Thunderbolt, held together with Clan-spec duct tape. It’s real cool
Clan Spec duct tape... I like that.
Anyone know where that back of clan-spec duct tape we salvaged went? That has to be the strongest tape ever designed.
Another case of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it. ...unless you can add a little clan tech." The ER Large Lasers are a nice bonus though, even if it runs hot. My only real tweak to the design would to drop the ER Large Lasers and put a pair of ER Medium Lasers in place of each, along with a couple heat sinks. If there isn't enough space, I'd change a pair of ER Mediums with medium pulse lasers. Oh, and I'd swap the LRM and SRM's places.
Solid tweaks, though the drop from ERLL to ERML is a big dps drop.
@@MechanicalFrog Yeah, the other thing I considered to free up tonnage was to swap the Gauss Rifle for a LB-10X and dropping the LRM 20 to a 15 and a ton of LRM ammo to free up the same amount of tonnage for heat sinks (Don't know what to do with the half-ton left over, I'd probably use it for armor). It would get the same number of heat sinks, but I felt I preferred the punch the gauss rifle brings. I also felt that the 4 ERMLs returned the IIC to it's roots a little more.
Always love the Orion for its fluff and description more than anything else. This old, clunky, deadly brawler of a mech. It somehow manages to fit into any time era, from Star League to 3025 to Clan Invasion to Republic of the Sphere.
So yeah, I'll take any of the variants. And probably die cursing the SRMS, as is my usual schtick. :D
**confused SRM screaming**
The Burton variant is incredibly impressive.
I have my own variant, leaning more into the anti-air role: iATM 6, ER Large Laser, Plasma Cannon, ER Medium Laser, AMS, HAG/20, Watchdog CEWS, C3 slave. Is it better? I don't know, but it's certainly interesting!
That sounds fun.
After watching the video I put together my own take. Large pulse laser in the right arm, Ultra AC/10 in the right torso with 3 tons of ammo. ATM9 in the Left with one of each of the reloads, and a trio of ER medium lasers in the left arm. An extra two double heat sinks help but the thing definitely has the potential to run hot. The overall temptation is to drop some of the ammo (A ton of Ultra rounds, and the Standard range missiles for the ATM) to put another two doubles in there. It hampers endurance, but the additional cooling would keep it much more under control. Still 50/50 on it.
Either way, another great video, and I'm loving the custom MF variants you're making for these. Theory crafting and mech tuning is something I love and is what got me into the game in the first place, so seeing people engaging in that side always makes me happy!
The Ultra AC10 can be a beast. Especially with the LPL backup. The ATM is a bit of a wildcard but I like that.
Gotta give it to the clans here, if there's a man worthy of adoration and worship, it's definitely Alexander Kerensky. It helps the Orion was already a reliable machine with few weaknesses, the Orion IIC just helps it maintain that reliability.
It's solid, for sure.
During one campaign i had a custom orion iic as a merc. It had only heavy lasers and inferno missles. Called it the tenderizer. Killed so many of my own pilots , that i had a higher kill count against myself then my friends did by the end.
Oopsie.
Well it had heavy lasers. So the pilot attrition makes sense.
I created my own custom variant of the Orion IIC after watching this vid - I seem to create custom variants after watching each of your 'Mech vids, lol. The Orion IIC "Salt" uses mixed tech, though the only IS components on it is the Plasma Rifle/w 3 tons of ammo. The rest of the loadout consists of a Clan LB-10X with 3 tons of ammo, and a Clan ATM-6 with one ton of each type of ammo. It adds 3 extra double heat sinks to this ammo-dependent variant, and a Clan Light Active Probe rounds out its tonnage. Though I haven't worked out the lore yet, I will say that "Salt" was built off of a Clan Wolf chassis that - for reasons unknown - was not equipped with any weapons prior to it disappearing from a Wolf factory in the Wolf Empire sometime in 3151.
Plasma Rifle and LB-10x could be fun.
Oh, I like this. Robust, versatile, still has the AA quirk, and it's equipped with hard hitting weapons.
Quite robust. Useful. Tenacious but not presumptuous.
@@MechanicalFrog And to top it off, it's affordable for a Clan heavy. If not for the likelihood of a Clan Wolf vengeance strike, stealing the plans could be quite profitable.
I'm fine with anything that harms Clan Wolf.
@@MechanicalFrogyeah, but to invoke their wrath is a gamble. Though if it couldn't be brought to bear, then proliferating the old pride of the pack could maybe help restore finances of a battered house.
Your variant like a Thunderbolt and Tundra Wolf got together. It's very nice!
I think it could be fun.
I have never understood and this mech is the perfect example of this
Multiple separate ammo dependent weapons
One is great. Two is o.k. here by the time we get to the mf-2 model that can be fitted with 7 different ammo types and a minimum of three.
Why not just srms why not just lrms or just ATMs but no we're going to mix them and have ballistic ammo as well.
The great jack of all trades til it runs out of shots.
Rationalising the weapons means you can have more of the right ammo and fight at the right range where you can bring your ideal weight to the fight.
Fair critique.
To paraphrase Fozzie Bear from the Muppet Movie: "A Kerensky in his natural habitat... a Studebaker."
Jokes aside, the deliberate use of two different models of ER L Lasers in the stock variant of the IIC feels like a logistical headache.
Hopefully, there's not TOO much difference between the two that the newer couldn't get replaced with the older in the other arm.
Another great evolution of a great mech :-) the orion is a mech ive used a lot...tough and useful at every range if not a bit dated....thanks for giving us this overview :-)
Thanks for checking it out.
If you want an Orion IIC variant...alright. I'll give you two.
Unlike Clan Wolf, I have no compunction for hero worship and find the classic Orion to be the most El Generico Heavy Mech available. Not great, not bad, but a solid all-rounder that doesn't really excite. (I greatly prefer the Marauder at its weight unless I need fire-support. Then, I'll take an Archer.)
Once again, there are two paths before me that depend on which Clan XL Engine rules I'm using. (Battletech or Mechwarrior)
BATTLETECH FIT: Lets keep the engine as a Standard 300 and the armor scheme as-is. It's pretty good protection after all.
-WEAPONRY: 2x Clan ERPPC, one in each arm. Right Torso: LB 10-X for shotgun justice fed by two tons of ammo
2x Small Pulse Lasers in the Left Torso to give the mech a real option vs those small, squishy things running around the battlefield with danger-lights and danger-pylons.
-INTERNALS: 17x Double Heatsinks and a Targeting Computer (also in the LT) will let the Orion fire its three main weapons freely and accurately, even while on the move. It's a pretty basic sniper mech that hits fairly hard at all ranges without sacrificing significant protection, or demanding significant cost. (I'm still not a fan of LRM barrages under 30, though I will credit the Orion IIC for at least leaning into that range bracket with ER-Large Lasers; which is my preferred support energy weapon for LRMs)
MECHWARRIOR FIT: I need to take this thing back to its brawling roots because all the weapon hardpoints but the torso missile battery are well below the cockpit; greatly limiting its potential as an effective point-and-peek sniper. Fortunately, Clan XL Engines are still bullshit OP in Mechwarrior and that is what will save this mech from mediocrity in the long run.
-ENGINE: Clan XL 335 (should give a max speed of around 72km/h)
-WEAPONRY: 4x Clan Medium Pulse Lasers (two per arm), an LB 20-X super-shotgun (right torso) w/3 tons of ammo, and an ATM-9 in the left torso with 3 tons of ammo. (1 ton of Explosive for BRAWLHAWLLA, 1 ton of standard, 1 ton of Extended Range for pelting turrets with spotter assistance)
-INTERNALS: 15 double heatsinks (13 in the engine, 1 in each arm), 1x Clan Laser AMS mounted in the head, and 3x Jump Jets (Heavy) distributed between the center torso and legs (1 apiece). Ammo is kept in the left torso and legs. (to allow for arm-shielding; loading the munitions into the arms would be the saner option if this were the tabletop, but in Mechwarrior, being able to torso twist into incoming fire to sacrifice arm durability will keep the ammo-dependent torso weaponry running longer)
The remaining 0.5 ton of space goes into armor.
Now those are variants...
It's my favorite Wolverine, I often make custom refits based on it all with the model designation starting with "FNK"....I'll let you guess what it stands for but a hint is its a 4 letter word and a name 😁
I can't imagine...
The ON1-IIC-C from MWO is my favorite variant for sure. Dual UAC/10s in place of the Gauss via a XL engine and downgrading the LRM to a 15
That's a lot of dakka.
Kinda like the Phoenix Hawk IIC at 80 tons...
My favorite heavy Mech gone Clan. Interestingly, the Orion IIC also shows up on the Republic of the Sphere List up until their fall, so apparently they picked some off the Wolves at some point. Clan Woof Woof also missed their grandpappy's mech so much they decided to build the Orion C after conquering Kalidasa, and then the C2 in 3142 and 3143 for general use
Interesting. I didn't find that in my research.
@@MechanicalFrog the Orion C popped up in TRO 3150 under 3145 New Tech, New Upgrades and was added in the new 3150 sheets Catalyst released in August I believe. The Cyclops C2 is in one of the new Recguides
Ah, yeah I generally ignore the Cs for the sake of brevity. @@stormcrow28
love your work man cant wait for the next one
Appreciate it! More to come.
My personal build of the Orion IIC sports an ER Large Laser in each arm, and a HAG40 in the right torso to reach out and touch the enemy at long range, and three SRM 6's split between the left arm and left torso for when the enemy gets close enough for a nice warm hug with self-propelled explosives.
That sounds fun.
Hmmm... If I'd build it using MWO's mechlab:
I guess I'd throw together for my Orion IIC two ERPPC's (one per arm), LB20-X (right torso) with 3-3,5 tons of ammo (both solid and cluster), Streak SRM 6 (left torso) with 1-1,5 tons of ammo, 20 DHS's so it can shoot almost forever, XL-engine 300, endosteel structure and most of the armor it can get. I'd be a heretic for sure if I'd slap those arm actuators into it as well, but.. Even if I did make it have some actual fingers, it's better used for shooting anyway.
Option two would be the same, but replace the LB20-X & ammo with a HAG 20 with 3-3,5 tons of ammo and add a an extra Streak SRM 4 (left arm or left torso).
How I would outfit one of these beauties depends on if I'm playing tabletop or PC simulation. It pays to balance the load-out on tabletop while a PC game can quickly become a matter of just piling in heat sinks and medium to long-range energy weapons with some jump jets to reposition as necessary.
I hope Catalyst commissions some cool new art for this one
That would be nice.
Great job! My favorite of the IIC ‘mechs!
Cool, thanks for giving it a go!
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Personally, I prefer two very similar variations.
One of them with two C-erPPC two SSRM6 with two tons of ammunition a LAMS a target computer for the PPC (3 tons) and 19 DHS (including the 10 + 2 in the reactor) and 12 tons of C-FF and Internal Structure of Endo Steel and a 300 standar fusion engine.
And my second choice is 3 C-LPLs one per arm and one in the central torso. 4 C-ERSL (one in the head two in a lateral torso and one in the other) And a targeting computer for all weapons (4 tons on it) of course 19 DHs on total. And the same 12 tons of C-FF and Endo Steel armor for the internal structure and the same 300 Standar fusion engine.
The first variant is deadly if you can afford to target a specific area.
The second is an almost constant hammer even at long distances. It also keeps fighting until the end even though the damage has been really severe.
Those would be fun. The LPLs are rarely a bad pick.
My personal Orion IIC looks a little like this (all Clan tech, obviously):
Upgrade 300 std to XL, keep the Endo Steel and Ferro Fibrous
Add Light Active Probe
Head: LAMS
RA: LP Laser and MP Laser
LA: 2x MP Laser
RT: Gauss w/. 3T of ammo
LT: ATM12 w/. 3T of ammo
Heat sinks: 15 Double
Which should leave 12 T for armour.
Looks solid.
Good stuff. Another IIC I knew nothing about. That has now been cured. Thanks frog!😄👍
Hopefully it gets the CGL plastic treatment soon.
Another enjoyable video, Thanks Frog
Glad you enjoyed it
I would go off of the Burton design. I would drop the JJs for a supercharger. Not quite as versatile, but better for weight and space. Hag 20 in the RT with three t ammo, ATM 6 in the LT with three tons, ERLL in the RA, LPL and tag system in the LA. I would also add a targeting computer and command cockpit as I think this works wonders as a command mech due to its anti-aircraft quirk: (hag would be at -4 and the LPL would be at -3 vs fliers). Good ar, passable mobility, and 58 damage possible makes for a very scary command/fire support mech.
That could be quite fun.
Thanks! My best ride. Skol
Right on!
Love everything about the Skol
Another great video MF!! As the original Orion is one of my favorites, I want to love the IIC, but beind undersinked just kills the base mech IMO. My preference is to drop the SRM4 and downgrade the LRM20 to a LRM15 and go to 2 tons of ammo which give you enough for 4 more heatsinks. You lose some of the "Orion-ness" without the SRM, but I just hate being undersinked because of a back-up weapon. I really like the MF version - a really nasty upgrade while staying true to the orignal bad ass brawler!!
Your tweak would be a good one to improve the lifespan in a fight/campaign, for sure.
Uh, this one is new to me. Will you get back to covering Battle Armors after all the IICs? Or vehicles maybe?
We will be revisiting battle armor in the future.
The Orion iic c in mwo is awesome. Got 2 uac10s 2ermediums 45lrms. Tad slow. But it can shell out as much as 2 catapults. I call it SiriusRistar.
I'll just go slow and lrm until the lights catch up 2 Me then dakka anyone that thinks I was an easy target. Using my left empty ammo lrm side as extra armour. Love the thing.
It's a solid platform, for sure.
Burtons mechs nice. Like the slrm ATM hag erlarge combo might not have penetrating power. However you do not wanna be flying any aerospace fighters near that thing. Got a feeling regulator hovertanks vs this thing would be a fun fight as well. Use him on asymmetric targets. Leaving kai to headshot all the mechs with a gauss slug. If anyone gets close it can critt seek.
Unsafe at any range.
Well its solid. I don't really know what to add. Like the other IIC mechs the Orion IIC is a stable upgrade to the original Orion. Its a bit more flawed then the others as it overheats and it rather ammunition tight. I would probably take off the Gauss Rifle, replace it with second LRM-20 launcher, take off the SRM-4 launcher, then add more heat sinks and ammunition. It would be more like an Archer Wolf.
My personal experiences using the original Orion are rare. They werent in Mechwarrior 2-4 or Mechcommander 1-2. They were in Battletech2018 PC game. There I didnt like them much as despite being a fairly solid heavy mech at 75tons they require a LOT of time modifying them in the Mechbays to give them more heat sinks, or switching to any other build. By default the Orion is kind of a Master-Of-None.. I personally preferred mechs that got patched in, The Warhammer and especially the Marauder.
That's fair. I think there are other IS mechs that do their jobs so well that the Orion gets outshined.
2 ERPPCs, HAG20 (2t A), 2 LRM15 (3t A), SRM6 (1t A), LAMS, 6 DHS. Endo, Ferro and 300XL
That would be quite the punch.
My variant of the Onion IIC runs 3x atm6, 2x hvy medium lasers and a c-uac10. It hits like Iron Mike and dances like Gene Kelly. 😎
Timely references. I approve.
people always speak about the atlas or the madcat/timberwolf .... but to me the orion is the primary posterchild of what a battlemech is
Correct me if I am wrong, but the Snub nose is Blakist Era tech, making the Orion Kerensky a technically illegal build.
It was technically in the prototyping phase when the Star League fell apart.
@@MechanicalFrog Curious. Based on my understanding of PPCs, you wouldn't expect the snub nose to go extinct, if anything you would almost expect them to start to happen naturally with wear and tear on standard PPCs. Unless there is a fine line between a working snub nose and an explosion that even in the Succession Wars people weren't willing to toy with.
I would almost always replace one of the ER Large Lasers with an ER Medium and bump the SRM up to a 6-pack.
Didn't teddy k end up with alexs Orion?
He did. Alex's Orion has a nice little history before it became a museum piece on Solaris VII. The thing about that mech that always gets to me is how the Goliath Scorpions showed up to claim the museum it was part of.
Yep. Since the Combine at the time didn't have access to Lostech, it was re-built as a standard K model.
@@Accentaur Yeah, Goliath Scorpions showed up out of the blue on Solaris 7 to trial for the whole museum and Big Daddy K's Orion specifically. Once they won they cleaned out the place and peaced out. Can you even imagine the reaction on Wolf Guards when bunch of Scorpion Seekers barged in on their turf out of nowhere after not even hearing anything about them for nearly a century? They thought they came to trial for the whole planet, instead they just wanted that juicy museum and Kerensky's vintage cockpit
Onion my beloved.
Aww...
It's a solid design in any configuration, but yeah, nothing compares to the power of the Golden BB (AKA TAC or through armor critical).
Wonderful when it happens to the enemy. Unfair travesty when it happens to you.
Indeed. Have you ever played with floating TAC's? In other words, after a 2 is rolled, you roll another hit location and apply the TAC to that new location. Absolutely brutal. Yeah, engine and gyro pops are nice, but seeing all of a leg's internals evaporate can be fun too!
Yep. It's a good rule.
Another great video, but I'm not gonna lie, I generally forget the Orion IIC exists...
Most do.
It's like custom built car, very few are made (similar situation with Balius, intentionally rare)
Is that MegaMek!?
Yep.
Other than being a Clan spin on a great mech, salvaging one off the battlefield and giving it to my merc unit appeals to me.
It would definitely be a prize.
dammm you frog get out of my HEAD
i was just thinking there needs to be a new 2c video
The nonsense must flow.
indeed mate indeed@@MechanicalFrog
The Snub nosed PPC on Kerensky's Orion is uuummmm eeeerrr problematic
We suspend our disbelief on that one.
Nope it's not. The Snubby was experimental during the Star Leauge. Then we lost all of the good stuff,, but Blessed Blake came back with his blessed lightning guns aplenty and the Inner Sphere has never been the same since. Praise Blake and his eternal signal.
Wow that youtube list is long. But I'd swap gauss for lbx20 swap missile systems to ATM variants that'll fit and carry majority lrm type
Could be fun.
Have not tried it yet
Okay is there an Atlas IIV? I know there's an Atlas II 🙂. Just wondering where the IIC gravy train ends 🤫... But that's okay, I think Frog will then design his own The Frog IIC, the Toad IIC, the Amphibian IIC, the Reptile IIC, Etc 😀😃.
There's no official Atlas IIC but there is an Atlas C.
The closest thing to an Atlas IIC would be the Kodiak.
@@Ichaerus oh I didn't consider the Kodiak...
@@MechanicalFrog well frog you need to extend the IIC series to the C Series 😎.
You should look at the mixed tech atlas 3
Bertrand sounds good so dose MF
5:42 f the lore around the Republic of the Sphere annoyed me , how is the planet Liao not a legitimate part of the Capellan Confederation ? You may as well say Capella and Sian aren't Capellan worlds ....... Good riddance that the ROS is kaput
It's all very silly but it reinforces the historical principle that you can tell a lot about a person by the arbitrary point in history where they want to start keeping score.
If I remember right, they moved the Capitol to Sian during the Age of War, due to Capella being too close to both the Davion and Hegemony. Place has changed hands almost as much as Terra by now.
"Legitimate" is a very loaded word. The history is explained in a book called Wars of the Republic Era, which is quite good. Basically, what happened is that the Word of Blake captured many former Capellan worlds (but not Liao itself). The Capellan Confederation refused to cooperate with Devlin Stone's Allied Coalition in fighting the Word of Blake, instead trying to reclaim their lost territory in their own and sometimes clashing with Stone-allied forces. Though the CCAF was partially successful, when the Allied Coalition defeated the Word of Blake on Terra, they did not return the remaining formerly-Capellan worlds to the Confederation. When the Republic of the Sphere was formed in March 3081, Chancellor Sun-Tzu Liao refused to sign the Republic Formation Treaty, and instead demanded the Republic return all formerly Capellan worlds to the Confederation, including ones which hadn't been controlled by the Confederation since the Fourth Succession War a half-century prior. Both the Republic government and most of the formerly-Capellan worlds refused, and Sun-Tzu and the Confederation, enraged, begane preparing for war, spreading propaganda that these planets were being held against their will by the Republic. When the former Free Worlds League attempted to invade the nascent Republic to reclaim their former worlds later in 3081, Sun-Tzu took advantage of the distraction to do the same, launching Operation GOLDEN FORTRESS. Though the Republic was initially caught off-guard and lost Tikonov, Stone's Brigade counteroffensive (Operation VINDOLANDA) recaptured Tikonov and pushed into the Confederation, taking Liao and a number of other worlds before Sun-Tzu Liao signed the Treaty of Tikonov in 3085, ending the war with the CCAF (already not recovered from fighting the Blakists) spent and Liao hiding a simmering rage that culminated in 3110, a quarter-century later, when the Maskirovka enacted Operation CELESTIAL SPEAR, a covert attack on Liao to infiltrate BattleMech forces and kill as many Republic supporters as possible in what would be called the Massacre of Liao, killing over a hundred thousand civilians and kicking off the Capellan Crusades, the largest conflict in the Inner Sphere since the end of the war against the Word of Blake.
Kerinsky mech
For better or worse.
@@MechanicalFrog like laserAMS and hag20 will help with AA
hear me out, we take the burton, downgrade the streak lrm 15 to a normal one, drop the atm 3, then, ER PPCs instead of ER Larges. you now have a more dangerous long range support mech.
Actually, no. Replace the ER Large lasers with ER Mediums, upgrade the gauss to a HAG 20 with 4 tons of ammo. drop the torso srm 4, add a Stream SRM 6 on each arm with two tons of ammo. And blammo, you got the Orion IIC-V. a devastating brawler that will survive most anything. could also drop a ton of ammo for the lrm for a center torso or head mounted ER medium so you can stay in the fight no matter what.