Did you explain how wells are drilled and cased for the closed loop circuir for geo thermal ground source heat pumps, expectedvm life cycle of the wells, how the plastic piping in our ground water can be removed down the road,what liquid circulates through the closed Loop, propylene glycol ( anti- freeze) write and explain how when drilling down through the 1st ground water table enroute to the 2nd deeper "good" water table that the 2 water tables can cross over, mix. contaminate the other if wells are not cased properly when drilling? Write about no laws,codes, e.p.a. mandates requiring fixing leaks in the closed loops? The fix..add more propylene glycol. Addition of glycol make up tank hooked to the closed loop that pumps in glycol when the system pressure gets low, Write about class action lawsuits etc.against plastic pipe mfg's taking place IN THE USA. Write about the smuggling of Chinese made plumbing piping copper-plastic pipe- steel pipe- galvanized pipe into the US and the products failing across the USA , mostly sold to box stores that did not and does meet spec's with the intent to hurt US mfg's even more. I'm doing 3 things at once,sorry for the quick reply. I have 30 years in the plumbing,hvac-r industry.
So while the outside air goes from cold in winter to hot in summer, the temperature a few feet down in your yard, remains the same. And you just tap into that reservoir of constant temperature with pipes. Brilliant!!
They over-complicate it by pumping water/anti-freeze through the pipes, when you could just as easily just have a fan that blows AIR through the buried pipe. You're setting yourself up for an mini-eco-disaster if you're pumping anti-freeze through those pipes and you spring a leak.
@@harrymills2770 This is heating for a house .. not a Greenhouse , therefor the water is necessary in order for it to be heated up further inside the house as it runs through a water heater, this system here is still a very expensive way to heat up a house as a huge water heater is doing most of the work/heating.. all this system does is pump semi tempid water from outside to the heater inside , instead of the heater being fed ice cold water direct from the mains... companies like to market these things as almost free heating/cooling which couldn´t be further from the truth.. the best system is water pipes running through a compost system, obviously not everyone has the room for that though as it has to be above ground.
I’ve been working for a geothermal Company for 3 years now as a sheetmetal apprentice. It really is amazing. New construction makes most sense. We do mostly condos and net zero buildings. Will most likely be the future of heating and cooling. I love my job.
There is an easier, more useful, and better way than digging all of this just for the sake of extending pipes, and it can be used anywhere on the ground under special conditions according to each region, but the idea needs support from anyone whom I might make a partner in this innovation.
Before you invest in something like this, do a test. Log your yearly energy bills, then make small investments like having insulation added to your attic above or crawlspace below. These two places are where the majority of your heat loss and heat gain occur in the winter and summer. These are things you can do yourself for relatively little money that will net you big savings. Then have your furnace/air-conditioning systems serviced. See how this effects your bill, you'll be amazed. Then, as your budget permits, you can have doors and windows replaced with better insulated models. Ground Source heat pumps can be cantankerous and expensive to repair especially if you develop a leak in your Ground Loop or Heat Exchanger. Insulating your home is the best first step. If you keep exterior heat out in the summer and keep your heat in in the winter then that's work that your HVAC system won't have to do. After all if you had a boat with holes in it, would you fix the holes or buy a more energy efficient bilge pump?
you are absolutely right about insulation as a first step 100% AGREED, but you are clearly not understanding or misrepresenting the reliability of the heatpump system.. they are very very reliable and even if not a lot of people know about them, they are reliably around for a while now.. Also a heatpump isn´t as cantankerous as you describe.. it is not new technology cause the tech is massively used in so many applications.. all the heat installation companies here in germany are talking about this as a modern and brandnew technology.. but it is not, I have 2 friends who use this method as standalone heating in their houses for the past 30 years.. and the cost of service and replacements are negligeble compared to conventioal heating like gas or oil.. one had to replace his heatpump after 20 years and the other one put in a new and more efficient one after 23 years without the old one ever breaking down.. the thing is, that the estimate of the heatpumps from all these "heating installation companies" that are to this day preaching that you need additional heating by conventional gas in order for it to be reliable, are charging an arm and a leg for what they portray as an exotic and new technology. also all the money we get from the government to upgrade to such a systems is skimmed off by these companies.. ( example: if there was no government programm the heatpump would cost expensive 7k and a year later the government would give 3k towards these expenses and suddenly all the heating installation companies would charge 10k for the exact same heat pump.) buying all the parts from indipendent dealers that are not part of these price gouging will give you the best prices with our without government help.. since we have pretty decent insulation standards here in germany the next step is to get these systems up and running more frequently.. but it seems that the industry has no interest in pushing this forward...
This is almost accurate, BUT prior to insulating a homeowner should air seal top plates, wire , pipe penetrations in attic and band/ rim joist in crawl & basement.
my rule of thumb energy conservation first. seal and insulate make your home as tight as you can. Even taking into account the cost of a heat recovery ventilator running most of the time, the electric bills will still be lower and one can increase or decrease air changes per hour as desired (makes for a much healthier home). Spending more than one needs to do up front with moderate changes to the insulation envelope and finding windows that have higher r value in relation to the rest of the insulation can make a HUGE difference in how much one needs to spec out for mechanical heat and cooling. Few people are willing to do as the animals do and look at partially bermed or subsurface housing.
That system makes most sense in new homes so you can lay the pipes in the house without ripping out the flooring and you save some money by not installing an regular A/C. Oh and i from europe i know some people that have a heat pump and they pay only 55$ a month for heating and cooling (25cents per KWh) and that in an area where some weeks in winter are often at 0°F (and the other weeks are about 15°F).
Back in about 1982, my church in NE Ohio had a pond loop heat pump system installed when they built the church. Within 5 years the church members decided to pay to have a gas well drilled for $100,000... the gas they sold and the availability of free heat paid for itself in just a few years. The pond system they were sold by a reputable geothermal company was only about 25% the size they were told they needed just a year or two later, when they complained about the high electricity bills and freezing cold church in winter. I think that a vertical loop system, about 1000-2000 feet deep to reach the warmer underground regions is needed in Northern Ohio.
Here's a real world example: I own a HVAC company. We install mostly convectional equipment including AC equipment (Air handlers And condensers) natural gas ,boilers, furnaces, heat pumps (air to air and water to air types such as the equipment mentioned in the video). I was involved in a geothermal system that was designed by a professional engineer. The homeowner asked me to install all the equipment inside the house and hired a well company to drill 3- 500 ft deep wells outside the home with engineer specify everything that was needed. Seven years later, homeowner still not happy with how much the electrical bill to run the equipment. To be fair, Massachusetts has some of the nation's highest electrical costs, but one thing these pro-geothermal companies don't mention is the amount of the electricity to push using large circulator pumps, glycol/water mix through the pipe/pipes outside the home through the "field". I believe this adds at least 30% or more electrical usage compared to convectional systems. Many people don't know that the latest air to air heat pumps make heat even with temps below zero degrees outside and this equipment easily competes with geothermal equipment which also heat pumps, but water to air, not air to air. The latest heat pumps are much more efficient but do cost 3 times more money then convectional heat pumps but again much, much less than geothermal installs. So all that being said, unless you have below average electrical utilities to hook up to or a lot of solar panels because you need a lot of electricity, for most people, you will spend a lot of money drilling vertically or installing horizontally the field pipe/pipes and will take years to get your money back. Plus you will be surprised how much electricity you need run the equipment. Lastly, not many HVAC contractors that can service geothermal so you will also pay a lot for future repairs.
Kind of an off topic question to what you mentioned but you seem to know what youre talking about and can look at this system objectively. My concern with this type of system is that if the ground is 55 degrees all year round roughly, in the winter this video says you dont need to burn any gas to heat with it. Now im no expert but wouldnt that this only heat a home to 55 degrees before the temperature reaches equilibrium? How would this raise the homes temperature above that without burning gas still in a furnace to get that last 15-20 degrees cause 55 seems like itd still be pretty chilly...
@Brandon Bader - You're correct. These are just a heat pump that instead of using an air to air heat exchanger, use a liquid to air exchange. Similar to the radiator on your car. The benefit is they start out with 55 degrees & just have to raise it less, on cooling 55 would be great. I'm sure it would still require a water heater even if the heat pump ran all summer. I should have started with "I'm no expert" but like you have common sense.
@@ledbetterjack I see so some of these videos are a tiny bit misleading in the fact that in the winter you still do need to use gas or electric heater in conjunction with it, tho obviously a lot less considering youre starting with ~55 degrees but i see where the origional poster is coming from now if you are paying that in conjuction with the cost of pumping the water up and down the lines.
It's because at Temperatures below 40º, the Heat Pump cannot make Heat, so it goes to Emergency Electric Strip Heat. In other words, it is worthless, you would be better off buying an Electric fORCED Air Furnace, which is Stupid.
@@rapiddanger,, an ac compressor in the equipment inside the house is converting the 55 degrees, using either the heat pump cycle, to temperature of 100 degrees or more for heating and the refrigeration cycle of the same compressor will convert the 55 degrees to at least 35 degrees for cooling. Any convectional air to air heat pump can do this already, but geothermal has the advantage of a stable 55 degrees fluid all year round. Air to air heat pumps, are not as efficient because the outdoor unit has to deal with outside temperature that are always increasing or decreasing from say 55 degrees. Obviously, the 55 degrees of fluid for any heat pump is ideal, but point is the geothermal companies forget to mention the energy used to circulate this fluid. Also, air is also a fluid, just like water, that why most people who have heat pumps, have air to air heat pumps.
It's true! Most guys/gals are not going to invest the time or effort to get the training. I already had a lot of hydronic/steam/AC experience so geothermal came easy once I actually got involved with one.
The initial investment and MAINTENANCE are BOTH expensive. Why not just bury 6-inch stovepipe on the cheap and in abundance? Then install a fan to circulate air through the pipes and into the home? You get the same benefit, without any of the problems. People up north are already using this technique, but they're not laying out 10s of thousands of dollars for the install, and they're not worrying about leaking ethylene glycol into the ground. I've dealt with irrigation systems for my lawn, and even the nicest install is a 20- or 30-year proposition, at best, and then you either repair, repair, repair as it starts leaking, or install a whole new system. The system in this ad is too expensive to install, too prone to NASTY breakdowns, and costs an arm and a leg to repair if anything goes wrong.
Cost $30,000 to install a Geothermal unit in my house. The unit lasted 3 years before the pipes underground broke a leak. Found out a couple days ago that my unit is screwed until I dig up the pipes to find the leak. My house got the unit in 2019. There’s no compensation, I have to pay to fix it myself. It’s in the middle of summer, my house is currently 86 degrees. Great experience so far
Yes... Its called ice melt and can also be placed on a roof to melt snow off of it. The only thing is you have to use a fluid that can withstand freezing temperatures. Typically glycol (yes what is found in vape fluid) is used to combat the freezing. Glycol is very expensive (due to needing so much of it) and needs to be replaced no longer than every 5 years due to it becoming acidic thus eating your heating system from the inside out. In other words it's expensive and high maintenance. But if you have the money it is very nice to not fall down every snow storm or have to sweep the snow off of it. You don't even need a geothermal system to have an ice melt, just a regular cast iron boiler would do the job.I install snow melt and heating cooling systems for a living.
@[The] White Rabbit No thanks. If you can afford to install a snow melt system and don't want to deal with the hassle of having to hire someone to come and do a half-ass job of it, this is a great solution that doesn't require you to do a damn thing, but look at you clean walkway/driveway and never worry about tracking salt and snow into your house. The moral of the story is that there is nothing wrong with technology that makes life simpler.
My home 6,000 sf cost about $45,000 to install Ground Source Heat Pump System in Oklahoma about 7 years ago for vents, duct work, 3 units 2 ton, 3 ton and 4 ton. 6 vertical boreholes 300' deep using 1" HDPE plastic pipe with life of 100+ years. Reverse return With 30% tax credit and $200 per ton from city of Stillwater. My cost was around $28,000. Which was less than a conventional gas fired system at $30,000. My average cost is around $70 per month for heating and cooling in Oklahoma. My total electric bill averages $156 per month for lights, cooking, hot water, heating and cooling. Plus I feel healthier, no gas fumes, no gas even to home for the two fireplaces. No loud compressors outside making noise. Units sound like refrigerator running. Insulation in home normal no spray on foam.
If you live in Tulsa, it must be in south or east tulsa and if in OKC, Nickolls Hills! But you are correct, as I saw an A frame house in Tulsa south of 71st or 81st, which was very energy efficient and this was back in the 80's( it had a west side, comprised of all glass with indoor swimming pool and rock garden.
They use gold instead of copper pipe. I've seen this before. Very cost effective. You have to be careful that scrapers don't find out you ran 25,000 dollars worth of gold pipe or you have to redo the entire job. I've heard of scrappers stealing the gold pipe hundreds of times before they switched back to copper systems.
My house is 7000 SQ Ft. My heating cost is $250 a month for winter ( Mid Nov, Dec, Jan, Feb, Early March). I have 3 HVAC units. I only turn on the one I need. Each unit cost me $3000, including furnace and a/c. The smallest HVAC unit is a heat pump.
If installed properly at the correct depth for the area you live. Geothermal is quite energy efficient. I installed the system my parents have in Northern Minnesota 14 years ago. Buried at 12', my parents are only having to heat up 61 degree in the winter vs -10 or lower.
Hello, I have several questions regarding this system and I wonder if you have any idea about it. It's about the longevity of this system and the risks it poses in the future. Let's say I install it below my garden, would it be costly to repair it one day when there's problem with the system, and would the plants and tree roots interfere with the pipes?
My home has deep wells for geothermal, and is extremely efficient. Inside is chilly in summer, and nice in winter, all with very low electric cost. Amazing. Just moved into our home last June. Very low cost to run it.
I have a house of 200 m2 and landscape of 400 m2 , can you guide me how to do this system ?? Also I have well of water 25 m3 , I hope you can help in this regard.
I'm in the planning stages of an off-grid solar powered house. I want 100% of heating, cooling, and hot water to be from my solar/battery system. Can't wait!!
In a heat pump when the temperature rises outside it raises the pressure inside the of the copper pipes which in turns raises the temperature of the refrigerant.
All great comments. I have also added a solar system to power my AC's. Electric cost efficiency isn't as much of a concern when the power comes from the sun...
@@legendboyAni First, they don't use Freone in the States anymore. Second, only if vented into the atmosphere was it a problem. AC's do not heat up the enviorment either. Does the sun hitting stone and warming the stone warm up the enviorment too. So, what would you use to cool a house if not an AC. Be practicle too.
The company I worked for in England "Calorex Heatpumps " produced a groundwater heatpump , the size of an undercounter fridge, consuming 1Kw max providing H.W for underfloor heat & surplus to Domestic H.W.
Really fun reading so many clueless comments. Loved the one about radon. This really does work and is not a scam.. but that said. some here just are not willing to read or talk to someone who has a clue There is no free lunch and with these systems people tend to undersize them because $$$$ upfront is a killer There are lots of ways to bring the cost of heating and cooling down. First one. BE efficient. Seal the house.. insulate the house control air and moisture movement.
Steve Pailet I’m a plumber. It is a good system indeed. Though this system is a rich man or woman’s game. It will take you 20 years on average to pay back the savings on the extra hardware and installation. Then you are making money. It is simple. You have to take the ground temperature and raise it or lower it with another heating or cooling source.
This is like every single home should be built. A little bit of science here. Learn from mother nature, look at trees: 1) They collect energy from the sun by leaves, kinda small solar panels, it can even adjust them to track the sun efficiently = we do same by solar panels 2) They use that sun energy to extract carbon from CO2 gas by means of photosynthesis = we do same to collect free electrons from doped Silicon atoms in solar cells. 3) they store accumulated energy inside trunk in form of carbon, trunk is a battery = we do same with battery storage. 4) they use that stored energy to heat and cool itself by running heat exchange with earth via root system, roots are kinda heat pump plumbing = we do same with geothermal heat pumps 5) they extract water from earth = we drill wells. Really, we should be independent from any public services, universe provided as everything needed to live, and it's all renewable. Trees are standing out there kinda screaming look at me, look how I do it. They are like huge hint in front of our eyes for thousands of years. Forgot to mention that tress extract carbon by means of photosynthesis - the most efficient energy conversion process ever known to mankind.
And how much does it cost the homeowner to dig the trenches, install the pipes, and rig the entire system? I notice you did NOT include such common sense information like THAT! (Hmm, I wonder why?)
@@roscoepatternworks3471 Dont feel like planting shade trees because you will not personally get to use the shade? Nah you are a Boomer... screw the future we have me to think about.
@@vuchaser99 what are you talking about? I live in a desert, but I still have 7 fruit trees. But I believe the topic was geothermal energy. Putting in geothermal is not cost effective, for me. And exactly how may trees have you planted for your future generations?
I think think earthy homes are better. If you have the right thermal mass you dont need any type of system. It will stay withing 8 degrees all year round no matter the climate.
These are better & more reliable than air/air systems. I've installed some & it was more efficient especially on Heat Pump systems. We don't see them too often because builders don't want to pay the extra costs involved to install these. It's more expensive & takes more time to drill or dig. Then it must be pressure tested which all takes time / money they'd rather not spend. It's not difficult to install these systems & if I owned a home I'd want one, they're that much better. peace
Have had a geothermal(heat and AC) system for 25 years in mid Michigan works excellent and about 75% cheaper to operate than natural gas furnace. Never any problems until yesterday developed freeon leak. R22 freeon is no longer sold or can be used in US. Now I have to purchased new system, $16,000.00. I use well water (open loop system). Well water is always around 55/56 degrees, furnace extracts 6 to 8 degrees(by compressing) from the water which than goes into lake. Heat coming out of furnace is around 100 degrees. AC is just the opposite takes the warm return air, extracts heat and blows out cool air. If not for banned freeon it would continue to run for many years more.
Also stop leak as a last resort..depending on leak size. Def last resort because stop leak can also cause clogs. www.ebay.com/itm/R-134a-R12-R22-R502-Pro-Seal-Super-Stop-Leak-Envirosafe-Refrigerant-4-oz-can/283456251760?epid=1346577249&hash=item41ff4f2770:g:iZMAAOSw1UdcuLMq
I installed two open loop geothermal units in a house and carriage house I built for my son in Michigan. Both were insufficient to keep up with heating or air conditioning, didn't supply enough hot water and were extremely noisy. These were made by Heat Controller company in Jackson, Michigan. When the main unit in the house busted a pipe and flooded the crawl space, the company refused to honor the warranty. I've ripped them out and replaced them with high efficiency gas furnaces and conventional air conditioning. The utility bills are less than half than they were with geothermal.
In my opinion, geothermal makes the most sense on new construction that can be designed with this type of system in mind. Retrofitting geothermal into an existing 'leaky' home would be a huge waste, unless you tightly seal and re-insulate the entire envelope first.
You could do it pretty cheap just by burying corrosion-resistant 6-inch pipe and have a small blower installed. Winter and summer, you'd get that 50-60-degree air circulating into your living space. Even without any other heating or cooling source, you'd never freeze or cook. Insulation is great, but I want my house to BREATHE.
Dig a ditch. Put some rocks in it, with a looped plastic 6 inch perforated pvc pipe in it. Loop the pipe through your floor, and you have a year round passive heating system in your house. (75 degree heating and cooling year round!) Costs a hell of a lot less than "professional" systems!
Been apart of several amateur builds with loops. Loops are easy if you have a good patch of land free(grass 2000sqft). Rent a backhoe yourself and do the trenching yourself.There is no need to remove all the dirt as shown in the video.
Sometimes we have extremly cold weather, and the ground freezes deeply. Then we get Ice Quakes. the ground freeze deeper than eight feet, and expands, and shifts in limited space it occupies. Then you get stress, and earth quakes.
We have both a gas furnace (emergency heat) and a conventional heat pump. I'm finding out that at about 40 degrees and below it is more economical to heat the home with the gas furnace. The heat pump doesn't deliver hot air through the ducting (warmed air, but not hot) and the spouse is happier when it is cold outside to have the gas furnace heating the home (happy wife. happy life!). Just sharing my experiences. Mine may be unique.
Almost everywhere in the globe the earth temperature at the depth of 3-4 meter is constant and which is the average yearly temperature so it will be lower in summer than outside and vice versa for winter.
How would a builder/remodeler do this in the deep south, where the climate is a little different? Mainly the ground source heat pump. Here in the greater New Orleans, La area, there is a heck of a lot of soil movement/soil subsidence. We are constantly pumping sand under the foundation of the houses, jacking up the houses to level and leveling the yards with either sand or top soil. How would this effect the physical components and connections of the equipment, as well as the efficiency and operation of the system? Also, I used to live in the greater Seattle, WA area and understand that a majority of the houses there don't have A/C systems. How would you incorporate an A/C system and still be Net Zero?
We replaced our standard HVAC system when it neared the end of the average life span. The Geothermal has been AMAZING! It has taken us through several Missouri summers with many, many days above 100 degrees. Inside was comfortable at 70 degrees and NO big air conditioner equipment outside. The water in our loops is cooled by the earth, and a fan blows past the loop to send cool air though our home via the existing ducts. Likewise, the earth's heat is brought into our home, magnified through the compressor to keep us at 70 degrees in the winter. We didn't even have to switch from our long-time HVAC company for service and seasonal maintenance. The same guys that installed our old system put in our Geothermal and they service both types - super easy! If your HVAC unit is nearing the end of its life...change over to Geothermal! You'll be happy you did.
These systems will cost more than a traditional system, but what you have to factor into the equation is "How much will I spend to heat and cool my house?" So if you are building in Fairbanks, Alaska, where most of the heating is done via fossil fuels, you can cut the fuel bill to nothing. The kicker is you have to take out a loan that may add $100 a month to your mortgage. So its simple really. How much on average do I spend heating my house? If it is $200 a month, then you should have already done it.
Learning the hard way. Bought a house in Ohio that has geothermal already installed. Had inspections that every work properly. Replaced after 1st year, 3 companies, 3 estimates, all said undersized. Heating bills from mid November to end March 3500 to 4000 total. Installed wood burner stove to heat house, bill dropped to 200 for average. House is 3000 sf ranch, w/good insulation. Geo unit is 3 ton air side, which works great, average bill 225 summer, but in the winter, if it gets below 30 deg it’s a piece of junk. Oh, the heat side is 2 units at a total of 6 ton. Uses all electric below 30 deg and will only heat to 68 degs. That first 875 dollar bill for the month of Dec. was more that a shock. Now 7 years later, and a tech out every 6 months to service unit, they say it needs replaced. A worthless piece of junk, and a con job by a industry as a hole. Luckily they ran natural gas this spring down our road, so the heat side will be toast by fall. Save your money, don’t buy into this, it’s not meant for heat in cold climates. That 2nd year cost us almost 20,000 with the replacement of units, heating cost, and , misalliance.
WTW Could it be that this system that house had could have just had some issues on top of not being deep enough into ground? I’m just wondering after reading your whole message.
Also, to modify the system, I have an idea, what if a solar water heater was added to the output end of the geothermal system to boost its resting heat output? You’d have pretty hot water flowing through those pipes to warm the home all you’d have to do is put the solar water heater on a remote controlled swivel and program it to follow the sun 24/7. I say this because my house has a solar panel array that cuts my electricity bill to zero. So I have electricity to play with. I plan on living north. Not Alaska or Washington north but moderately north. Nothing higher than Oregon.
Do you have all the wall openings sealed in the attic ? My bill dropped to half once i sealed my basement and wall openings in antique with a cheapest form filler spray.
Heating water requires expensive energy which be a great energy draw. Having the assist of earth heated water is a boon. After Geothermal is installed a backup of solar energy to provide for the clothes dryer there and lights (pc and phone charging) makes sense.
Solar makes sense, (solar ponds, ILLEGAL!). Wind power, (good idea, but "wind turbines" are designed to LOSE money, so ANOTHER loser!) Storage system, (battery). Battery systems are expensive, and degrade over time. Insulation is a big winner, worth more than all the rest combined. But benefit/versus cost analysis is necessary, and there is none here.
Solar makes no sense unless you can find a way to stop hail storms and tornadoes and torrential rain.or make them unbreakable, also, something that requires batteries over and over again is not environmentally friendly not to mention having to replace panels every 10 years.
On your side of the pond, (I assume you are English), you have less solar days than here. But your wind days are more profitable, provided you design and build your own wind turbine, AND MAKE SURE THE SAILS ARE LARGE!
My climate master failed twice within the first year. It was missing a wire harness from the factory and had to be replaced before it was started. About 10 months into the use of the system it failed again. The expansion valve needed to be replaced. What’s next?
I have a question. What IF...instead of those expensive horizontal coils (vertical to service high-rise buildings) you had a Eutectic salt tank in the basement? Then, you could run the AC during off-peak times, when the outside temperature is cool (in the Summer) or relatively warm (in Winter.) There would be no central distribution fan. A Saltwater Bath is Zero Fahrenheit. In the case of AC, you can use a heat exchanger in the bath, and distribute the antifreeze to split systems near the ceilings of all rooms. The heating coils could be inside a boiler, with a heat exchanger in the tank, and an outside radiator. The radiator pump and fan would also be most efficient in the wee hours. In the Cold months, you could simply divert the hot water into baseboard heaters, with piping from the boiler tank, and the excess cold from the salt tank could be diverted outside through the same outdoor heat exchanger-in the this case in the afternoon-the relatively warm part of the day.
PS: this would have the additional benefit that you would not need to reverse the flow of the system. This means, that in Fall and Spring, you could easily use Heat or AC at different times of the same day.
Obviously the immediate worries are - how long before the below ground pipework develops a leak then everything is just too costly and waste of time and money and obviously no heat. And would this last years and years?? For example my house is 90 years old with still the same roof tile. Well, yes I have cleaned the roof tiles and preserved it.
I would want to know how ground composition impacts the effectiveness of such a system. If you're building someplace that is principally adobe shale, digging a system will be far more expensive than in "dirt", and I wonder how the density of the ground impacts heat transfer, and how fast the differential dissipates vs. becoming saturated, so that the cooling effect in summer will degrade over time as the local "soil" (rock) fails to pass the heat away into surrounding material. How different would the effectiveness be if an air conditioner's condenser employed water, cooled underground using a grid, or series of grids? What if the entire condenser was immersed in cold circulating water in a jacket, so that dirt was not introduced to the water, and operation did not rely on transferring heat to the outside air AT ALL? Since it would be a sealed system, it would not have to be water -- it could be something that conducted heat and prevented deterioration of the condenser body and fins.
sir these type of geothermal systems are nothing new and the questions you are asking are all part of the planing process of such a system.. as it has to be dimensioned big enough to fullfill the cooling and heating requirements of the house.. in order to have system reliability as you mentioned the designer will always go oversize in order to keep the influence of the disturbance variables low ( like soil etc. ). if all is planned well and installed correctly there is no need for additional systems as the system itself is simple and reliable, additions would make it more costly and less reliable with higher costs of maintenance.. as for the air conditioner´s condencer employed in "water cooled from the underground grid".. that is exactly the heatpump system used in geothermal.. you have the closed loops of water running in the ground to a heatexchanger in your house and the heatpump is there to either use it as "heat" or "cold".... if planned exeptionally well ( depending on the ground ) you can even store heat through the summer in the ground and retrieve it in the winter time and vice versa. but the degrading "cooling" effect is "just" a change in efficiency of the heatpump, which does result in the heatpump using up more power.. but as mentioned if the dimensions of the loop are correct the heatpump will run with in efficient parameters may only end up using a couple percent more energy at the end of the cooling cycle of the year, after that part of the heat can be potentially retrieved again in winter making the first period of the heating cycles even more efficient..
Whoa, boy..., that risk of vandalism,,, glad they addressed that.... vandals goin around damaging units in fenced in backyards ,, and such close proximity to house full of humans.... it’s just rampant here in sparks nevada..... I mean it’s crazy
So this won't work for a single home in a city where the temperature is near and below freezing during the day for several weeks at a time due to limited available space.
I wish north Texas HVAC companies would embrace this technology . I moved into a house built in 1963 some 30 years ago . I put the best windows and a white metal roof on but nobody would install geothermal. Now I can't afford it !
Sure, but they also expense a TON of radiation. Living in mountains, caves, etc are bad ideas. You might as well live outside and have the sun hit you 24/7
I wonder if the way to go is to build a super-insulated Passive House. Aside from the solar heat gain from the south-facing windows, one could use solar water heaters on the roof and a radiant heating system. Also, with the price of solar panels continuing to drop, it's definitely one way to keep an eye on as being the cheapest way to get to Net Zero energy use. I would think this would be more effective in colder climates than warmer areas, however.
Only if you have control over where the house is facing. That is not an option for the majority of people in cities or urban areas. Passive is an option for rural areas where there is less control over things like that.
I have done experiments! I dug a 20 foot hole, and placed thermometers at various depths. I lived in the center of the USA in St.. Louis, Missouri. You have to dig about 20 feet down to reach a temperature that does not change with the seasons. That temperature is 60F. Your video says "55F". That might be true in the far northern states. In the middle, it is 60F. In the southern states it is probably 65F I now live in the southern state of Florida, and have not done experimenting..... yet.
Geothermal cooling system doesn't need a pump like Air conditioning system? That pump hot vapour into a small nozzle to get cold vapour on the other side? Can hot vapour in a pipe change temperature into cold vapour without a pump? Plz let me know and thanks for the video.
Question: If the temperature below ground is a consistent 55 degrees, then doesn't that mean a house can only be heated or cooled no more than the source limit (55 degrees)? OR is there more processes in place to up that? While I don't ever foresee needing to cool a house to 55 degrees, heat stacks so if its 110 outside and I an dumping heat outside, I am warming the thermal mass of the the earth where my loop is located. The heat would wick away sure how does it cool fast enough to keep up? Inverse to that, how do we get temperatures hotter for say winter times were we want a house to be 68-70 degrees and water up to say 120 degrees?
pmp2559 we installed a geothermal heatpump for heating water for a family of 6, and using the water to heat the house, cooling (about 3600 square feet, 10 feet high ceiling). In the winter the temperatures go down to about 14F. And in the summer its about 75f. We had all full electrical before this. Our bill for heating, cooling has cut down by 70%. Great system!!! It costs alot to install and new ducting and all but in a fee years that will have payed off since it saves so much money!
@@robigeisi6530 what do you use to store your cooling (ice battery) or for the storage of your heating? Also... what type of fluid are you using to combat the freezing temperatures on the cooling and the "boiling" of the heating side? I install these systems and I have never heard of someone's electricity bill going down. I mean you have the compressor, heating pumps, domestic hot water pumps, cooling pumps, fan coil units, three way valves, etc.. 3600 square feet requires al the minimum of 2 heat pumps. I agree when the system is operating to full potential it is a very good system, just not cheap on electricity. I've installed photovoltaic panels to help combat the high electricity bills but it's still expensive.
We did a retrofit on our house. This is our 4th winter with the system. We have a large house: 3300 sq ft with a 22 ft vaulted ceiling upstairs made 100% of red cedar so the volume of space to heat is huge which meant we needed a huge system. Our total project cost about 36k which sounds awful. So far, very happy with the system though. Set at 72 all year around. Tough to determine payback since we heated everything with wood previously but we estimate about 10 years. I guess I don't have to cut 40-50 pickup loads of wood anymore. The system in January (Wisconsin winter, temps consistently below 0 this time of year) will cost about $180-200 dollars in electricity including domestic hot water. Considerably less the rest of the year, about $40 to cool in July and August. We didn't use Climate Master, went with Water Furnace Synergy system which does all forced air and basement hydronic heat. Long term it will be a great investment.
I have family who tried this, a niece and her husband. It has been a nightmare for over ten years. The company no longer even tries to get it to work. It never has worked. A complete waste of about $50,000 They live by Perham Minnesota, it doesn't work there.
about 99% of the time this has to do with inadequate amount of ground loop. People try to cheap out and do not put in enough water loop per ton.. Have seen some who do 250 ft of loop per ton. wont work.. 800 ft per ton seems to be the number I hear more consistently ... Think of it this way .. you can put a 1 liter engine in a 5000 pound car.. It will move but sure would not ever want to try to get on the expressway with that dog
The only way to use a geothermal system is a well-known brand Waterfurnace , do not at all buy a cheaper unit. water heat pumps from years ago last 20 to 30 years today, lucky to get 6 to 10 years, less if it is a cheapo. plus install yourself and learn . -30c one needs backup heat also I use my mostly in the spring and fall. when running a boiler or woodstove is uneconomical .
jack fenn it would have to absorb the differential temp. In turn evening out. A small change I can see but 50 deg difference flowing at a constant rate. I see foundations going in during the cold months. They use an oil pumping heater and rods to thermally transfer heat. They surrounding soil transfers about 2 feet out from the rod. Straight down with a small hole. I get it is just not enough of a difference to change the output. But horizontally loosing heat to the top soil and pipes running back and forth. I kind of vision a heated floor set up.
It's a good question, during summer (on a horizontal laid system) pumping heat into the soil for hours and weeks on end, the soil dries out? And begins to lose its ability to "cool" the pipe?
if the temperature underneath is a constant 55 degrees all year round, is it possible and safe to just built an underground house ? forget the norm, I would welcome a safe underground house that stays cool during blazing summers and mildly cool during harsh winters
@@anthonyraven9823 lovely views are overrated when you have security , year round controlled temperature . Besides, if you want a great view, just climb outside of the underground home.
There is an easier, more useful, and better way than digging all of this just for the sake of extending pipes, and it can be used anywhere on the ground under special conditions according to each region, but the idea needs support from anyone whom I might make a partner in this innovation.
See video about the guy growing oranges in Nebraska. He just buried 6-inch stovepipes. No messy anti-freeze/water in the pipes. Just bury the pipes 8 feet under ground. Then a low-wattage fan to push air through the pipes and the air that comes back is at ground temp. The guy who's doing this for his greenhouse in Nebraska uses 200 feet of pipe to achieve this. These guys are making it way more complicated, expensie and energy-intensive than it needs to be. Why even mess with a water pump? All you have to do is move air through buried pipes. You just need enough pipe and a day or two with an excavator to excavate and then fill it back in. I'd pair such a system with a rocket-stove mass heater, for emergency back-up in winter. Insulating a box on top of the ground is also kind of silly. You don't WANT a sealed-up house. Instead, build it into the ground. North side and most of East and West side in the ground, with a southern exposure covered with glass to capture solar. In summer, use SHADE (i.e. growing things!) to keep the sun out. So many things you can do if you're building a place. If you already own a place, and it's built on a slab without a basement, you're already kind of in a bind. At the least, I would avoid ever buying a home that didn't have a full basement. That right there gives you a nice microclimate, before you ever turn on heating or cooling.
Hi I did a corse in Sweden ,ground sorse And air sorse heat pumps every time They have a shortfall of in performance they back it up with A massive amount of electricity Fortunately for them they have An abundant supply of hydro and geothermal energy if u don't don't do it
and so? that is exactly why you use geothermal, because you can run the heatpump from a constant temperatured source and run the heatpump very efficiently.. if they fall short in performance and back it up with a massive amount of energy the designer of the system should take a shotgun and go behind a barn.. sry but this is not rocket science and wasn´t even 30 years ago when were putting in in houses..
@@MrBemnet1 And the 7-9 KW compressor which is what´s doing 90% of the heating and runs more or less non stop .. these things are a total scam, cost a fortune to have put in and take for ever before there is any return investment , and will absolutely destroy anyones electricity bill .
@@34979Charlie are you sure that they run continuously? why is that ? The purpose of the heat pump using ground water is to increase the COP because the temperature of the water is higher than the air outside.
To run these heat pumps along with recirc pumps, fan coil units, etc. require a ton of electricity. By using this system you are not directly burning fuel but indirectly you are. These systems are worthless if you dont use distilled water with a glycol or ethanol. Not only all that but you have to have a stable supply of electricity because the heat pumps are sensitive to surges or brownouts. The heat pumps we use are water furnace and the compressors on these units burn out often due to electricity issues. Best way to go is a high efficiency boiler (Veissman, Locinvar, etc) with a sidearm tank for domestic hot water with a split unit for cooling. Just my opinion.
A software company in Madison, Wisconsin uses this system to heat and cool 3 very large office buildings it built in the early 2000's. Epic, I believe, is the name of the company.
I had to write a report on geothermal systems for my science final and thanks to this video I got 97% 😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀
This is more of a commercial
Did you copy everything said or put it into your own dialogue?
Pathetic
Did you explain how wells are drilled and cased for the closed loop circuir for geo thermal ground source heat pumps, expectedvm life cycle of the wells, how the plastic piping in our ground water can be removed down the road,what liquid circulates through the closed Loop, propylene glycol ( anti- freeze) write and explain how when drilling down through the 1st ground water table enroute to the 2nd deeper "good" water table that the 2 water tables can cross over, mix. contaminate the other if wells are not cased properly when drilling? Write about no laws,codes, e.p.a. mandates requiring fixing leaks in the closed loops? The fix..add more propylene glycol. Addition of glycol make up tank hooked to the closed loop that pumps in glycol when the system pressure gets low,
Write about class action lawsuits etc.against plastic pipe mfg's taking place IN THE USA.
Write about the smuggling of Chinese made plumbing piping copper-plastic pipe- steel pipe- galvanized pipe into the US and the products failing across the USA , mostly sold to box stores that did not and does meet spec's with the intent to hurt US mfg's even more.
I'm doing 3 things at once,sorry for the quick reply.
I have 30 years in the plumbing,hvac-r industry.
Dakota pathetic
So while the outside air goes from cold in winter to hot in summer, the temperature a few feet down in your yard, remains the same. And you just tap into that reservoir of constant temperature with pipes. Brilliant!!
They over-complicate it by pumping water/anti-freeze through the pipes, when you could just as easily just have a fan that blows AIR through the buried pipe. You're setting yourself up for an mini-eco-disaster if you're pumping anti-freeze through those pipes and you spring a leak.
@@harrymills2770 This is heating for a house .. not a Greenhouse , therefor the water is necessary in order for it to be heated up further inside the house as it runs through a water heater, this system here is still a very expensive way to heat up a house as a huge water heater is doing most of the work/heating.. all this system does is pump semi tempid water from outside to the heater inside , instead of the heater being fed ice cold water direct from the mains... companies like to market these things as almost free heating/cooling which couldn´t be further from the truth.. the best system is water pipes running through a compost system, obviously not everyone has the room for that though as it has to be above ground.
I’ve been working for a geothermal Company for 3 years now as a sheetmetal apprentice. It really is amazing. New construction makes most sense. We do mostly condos and net zero buildings. Will most likely be the future of heating and cooling. I love my job.
Can you send your company details. I am interested. Send me your mobile number
Can y get me some details about any project using this
Like materil of pipe sequence of working
Why people don't use this instead ac?
Really? Does it work in the tropics?
There is an easier, more useful, and better way than digging all of this just for the sake of extending pipes, and it can be used anywhere on the ground under special conditions according to each region, but the idea needs support from anyone whom I might make a partner in this innovation.
Before you invest in something like this, do a test. Log your yearly energy bills, then make small investments like having insulation added to your attic above or crawlspace below. These two places are where the majority of your heat loss and heat gain occur in the winter and summer. These are things you can do yourself for relatively little money that will net you big savings. Then have your furnace/air-conditioning systems serviced. See how this effects your bill, you'll be amazed. Then, as your budget permits, you can have doors and windows replaced with better insulated models. Ground Source heat pumps can be cantankerous and expensive to repair especially if you develop a leak in your Ground Loop or Heat Exchanger. Insulating your home is the best first step. If you keep exterior heat out in the summer and keep your heat in in the winter then that's work that your HVAC system won't have to do. After all if you had a boat with holes in it, would you fix the holes or buy a more energy efficient bilge pump?
you are absolutely right about insulation as a first step 100% AGREED, but you are clearly not understanding or misrepresenting the reliability of the heatpump system.. they are very very reliable and even if not a lot of people know about them, they are reliably around for a while now.. Also a heatpump isn´t as cantankerous as you describe.. it is not new technology cause the tech is massively used in so many applications.. all the heat installation companies here in germany are talking about this as a modern and brandnew technology.. but it is not, I have 2 friends who use this method as standalone heating in their houses for the past 30 years.. and the cost of service and replacements are negligeble compared to conventioal heating like gas or oil.. one had to replace his heatpump after 20 years and the other one put in a new and more efficient one after 23 years without the old one ever breaking down.. the thing is, that the estimate of the heatpumps from all these "heating installation companies" that are to this day preaching that you need additional heating by conventional gas in order for it to be reliable, are charging an arm and a leg for what they portray as an exotic and new technology. also all the money we get from the government to upgrade to such a systems is skimmed off by these companies.. ( example: if there was no government programm the heatpump would cost expensive 7k and a year later the government would give 3k towards these expenses and suddenly all the heating installation companies would charge 10k for the exact same heat pump.) buying all the parts from indipendent dealers that are not part of these price gouging will give you the best prices with our without government help.. since we have pretty decent insulation standards here in germany the next step is to get these systems up and running more frequently.. but it seems that the industry has no interest in pushing this forward...
This is almost accurate, BUT prior to insulating a homeowner should air seal top plates, wire , pipe penetrations in attic and band/ rim joist in crawl & basement.
my rule of thumb energy conservation first. seal and insulate make your home as tight as you can. Even taking into account the cost of a heat recovery ventilator running most of the time, the electric bills will still be lower and one can increase or decrease air changes per hour as desired (makes for a much healthier home). Spending more than one needs to do up front with moderate changes to the insulation envelope and finding windows that have higher r value in relation to the rest of the insulation can make a HUGE difference in how much one needs to spec out for mechanical heat and cooling. Few people are willing to do as the animals do and look at partially bermed or subsurface housing.
I have an insulated home, but I'm mostly looking to see of a greener alternative.
That system makes most sense in new homes so you can lay the pipes in the house without ripping out the flooring and you save some money by not installing an regular A/C.
Oh and i from europe i know some people that have a heat pump and they pay only 55$ a month for heating and cooling (25cents per KWh) and that in an area where some weeks in winter are often at 0°F (and the other weeks are about 15°F).
Back in about 1982, my church in NE Ohio had a pond loop heat pump system installed when they built the church. Within 5 years the church members decided to pay to have a gas well drilled for $100,000... the gas they sold and the availability of free heat paid for itself in just a few years. The pond system they were sold by a reputable geothermal company was only about 25% the size they were told they needed just a year or two later, when they complained about the high electricity bills and freezing cold church in winter. I think that a vertical loop system, about 1000-2000 feet deep to reach the warmer underground regions is needed in Northern Ohio.
Here's a real world example:
I own a HVAC company. We install mostly convectional equipment including AC equipment (Air handlers And condensers) natural gas ,boilers, furnaces, heat pumps (air to air and water to air types such as the equipment mentioned in the video).
I was involved in a geothermal system that was designed by a professional engineer.
The homeowner asked me to install all the equipment inside the house and hired a well company to drill 3- 500 ft deep wells outside the home with engineer specify everything that was needed.
Seven years later, homeowner still not happy with how much the electrical bill to run the equipment.
To be fair, Massachusetts has some of the nation's highest electrical costs, but one thing these pro-geothermal companies don't mention is the amount of the electricity to push using large circulator pumps, glycol/water mix through the pipe/pipes outside the home through the "field". I believe this adds at least 30% or more electrical usage compared to convectional systems. Many people don't know that the latest air to air heat pumps make heat even with temps below zero degrees outside and this equipment easily competes with geothermal equipment which also heat pumps, but water to air, not air to air. The latest heat pumps are much more efficient but do cost 3 times more money then convectional heat pumps but again much, much less than geothermal installs.
So all that being said, unless you have below average electrical utilities to hook up to or a lot of solar panels because you need a lot of electricity, for most people, you will spend a lot of money drilling vertically or installing horizontally the field pipe/pipes and will take years to get your money back. Plus you will be surprised how much electricity you need run the equipment.
Lastly, not many HVAC contractors that can service geothermal so you will also pay a lot for future repairs.
Kind of an off topic question to what you mentioned but you seem to know what youre talking about and can look at this system objectively. My concern with this type of system is that if the ground is 55 degrees all year round roughly, in the winter this video says you dont need to burn any gas to heat with it. Now im no expert but wouldnt that this only heat a home to 55 degrees before the temperature reaches equilibrium? How would this raise the homes temperature above that without burning gas still in a furnace to get that last 15-20 degrees cause 55 seems like itd still be pretty chilly...
@Brandon Bader - You're correct. These are just a heat pump that instead of using an air to air heat exchanger, use a liquid to air exchange. Similar to the radiator on your car. The benefit is they start out with 55 degrees & just have to raise it less, on cooling 55 would be great. I'm sure it would still require a water heater even if the heat pump ran all summer. I should have started with "I'm no expert" but like you have common sense.
@@ledbetterjack I see so some of these videos are a tiny bit misleading in the fact that in the winter you still do need to use gas or electric heater in conjunction with it, tho obviously a lot less considering youre starting with ~55 degrees but i see where the origional poster is coming from now if you are paying that in conjuction with the cost of pumping the water up and down the lines.
It's because at Temperatures below 40º, the Heat Pump cannot make Heat, so it goes to Emergency Electric Strip Heat. In other words, it is worthless, you would be better off buying an Electric fORCED Air Furnace, which is Stupid.
@@rapiddanger,, an ac compressor in the equipment inside the house is converting the 55 degrees, using either the heat pump cycle, to temperature of 100 degrees or more for heating and the refrigeration cycle of the same compressor will convert the 55 degrees to at least 35 degrees for cooling. Any convectional air to air heat pump can do this already, but geothermal has the advantage of a stable 55 degrees fluid all year round.
Air to air heat pumps, are not as efficient because the outdoor unit has to deal with outside temperature that are always increasing or decreasing from say 55 degrees.
Obviously, the 55 degrees of fluid for any heat pump is ideal, but point is the geothermal companies forget to mention the energy used to circulate this fluid. Also, air is also a fluid, just like water, that why most people who have heat pumps, have air to air heat pumps.
My brother uses this in his house that he built over 30 yrs ago on top of a hill in eastern Ohio and loves it. No problems.
I have a house of 200 m2 and landscape of 400 m2 , can you guide me how to do this system ??
What brand of pump does he have and model, please ask him
Thanks for the video on your company
Really helpful video! Thank you.
Thank you, I didn't have a clue how they worked but knew it was the way 2 go.
Thank you , as far as I can tell the biggest drawback is the initial investment, and finding an installer with REAL KNOWLEGE an experiance
It's true! Most guys/gals are not going to invest the time or effort to get the training. I already had a lot of hydronic/steam/AC experience so geothermal came easy once I actually got involved with one.
The initial investment and MAINTENANCE are BOTH expensive. Why not just bury 6-inch stovepipe on the cheap and in abundance? Then install a fan to circulate air through the pipes and into the home? You get the same benefit, without any of the problems. People up north are already using this technique, but they're not laying out 10s of thousands of dollars for the install, and they're not worrying about leaking ethylene glycol into the ground.
I've dealt with irrigation systems for my lawn, and even the nicest install is a 20- or 30-year proposition, at best, and then you either repair, repair, repair as it starts leaking, or install a whole new system. The system in this ad is too expensive to install, too prone to NASTY breakdowns, and costs an arm and a leg to repair if anything goes wrong.
Cost $30,000 to install a Geothermal unit in my house. The unit lasted 3 years before the pipes underground broke a leak. Found out a couple days ago that my unit is screwed until I dig up the pipes to find the leak. My house got the unit in 2019. There’s no compensation, I have to pay to fix it myself. It’s in the middle of summer, my house is currently 86 degrees. Great experience so far
$30,000 would be cheap I'd think where I live. A well is minimum $25,000 and rock. The mountains on colorado where frost line is over 4 feet also
Climate Master, the KING of the water source heat pump, period.
I honestly didn't know there was a system to warm your sidewalk during the winter! Very smart idea.
Yes... Its called ice melt and can also be placed on a roof to melt snow off of it. The only thing is you have to use a fluid that can withstand freezing temperatures. Typically glycol (yes what is found in vape fluid) is used to combat the freezing. Glycol is very expensive (due to needing so much of it) and needs to be replaced no longer than every 5 years due to it becoming acidic thus eating your heating system from the inside out. In other words it's expensive and high maintenance. But if you have the money it is very nice to not fall down every snow storm or have to sweep the snow off of it. You don't even need a geothermal system to have an ice melt, just a regular cast iron boiler would do the job.I install snow melt and heating cooling systems for a living.
@[The] White Rabbit you can do whatever floats tour boat.
Yes, Mama, it's called snow melt system. Hydronic would be more cost effective than electric systems.
@[The] White Rabbit No thanks. If you can afford to install a snow melt system and don't want to deal with the hassle of having to hire someone to come and do a half-ass job of it, this is a great solution that doesn't require you to do a damn thing, but look at you clean walkway/driveway and never worry about tracking salt and snow into your house. The moral of the story is that there is nothing wrong with technology that makes life simpler.
Absolutely GENIUS!
Made it sound simple enough. That's awesome.
My home 6,000 sf cost about $45,000 to install Ground Source Heat Pump System in Oklahoma about 7 years ago for vents, duct work, 3 units 2 ton, 3 ton and 4 ton. 6 vertical boreholes 300' deep using 1" HDPE plastic pipe with life of 100+ years. Reverse return With 30% tax credit and $200 per ton from city of Stillwater. My cost was around $28,000. Which was less than a conventional gas fired system at $30,000. My average cost is around $70 per month for heating and cooling in Oklahoma. My total electric bill averages $156 per month for lights, cooking, hot water, heating and cooling. Plus I feel healthier, no gas fumes, no gas even to home for the two fireplaces. No loud compressors outside making noise. Units sound like refrigerator running. Insulation in home normal no spray on foam.
If you live in Tulsa, it must be in south or east tulsa and if in OKC, Nickolls Hills!
But you are correct, as I saw an A frame house in Tulsa south of 71st or 81st, which was very energy efficient and this was back in the 80's( it had a west side, comprised of all glass with indoor swimming pool and rock garden.
They use gold instead of copper pipe. I've seen this before. Very cost effective. You have to be careful that scrapers don't find out you ran 25,000 dollars worth of gold pipe or you have to redo the entire job. I've heard of scrappers stealing the gold pipe hundreds of times before they switched back to copper systems.
My house is 7000 SQ Ft. My heating cost is $250 a month for winter ( Mid Nov, Dec, Jan, Feb, Early March). I have 3 HVAC units. I only turn on the one I need. Each unit cost me $3000, including furnace and a/c. The smallest HVAC unit is a heat pump.
Gerald McClain $28,000?!? You're being robbed
Richard Hill s
If installed properly at the correct depth for the area you live. Geothermal is quite energy efficient. I installed the system my parents have in Northern Minnesota 14 years ago. Buried at 12', my parents are only having to heat up 61 degree in the winter vs -10 or lower.
Hello, I have several questions regarding this system and I wonder if you have any idea about it. It's about the longevity of this system and the risks it poses in the future. Let's say I install it below my garden, would it be costly to repair it one day when there's problem with the system, and would the plants and tree roots interfere with the pipes?
My home has deep wells for geothermal, and is extremely efficient. Inside is chilly in summer, and nice in winter, all with very low electric cost. Amazing. Just moved into our home last June. Very low cost to run it.
I have a house of 200 m2 and landscape of 400 m2 , can you guide me how to do this system ?? Also I have well of water 25 m3 , I hope you can help in this regard.
@@ehabtuffaha4083 connect your well to landscape then run pipes to your house. Job done! very easy.
I'm in the planning stages of an off-grid solar powered house. I want 100% of heating, cooling, and hot water to be from my solar/battery system. Can't wait!!
This is an amazing concept!!!
In a heat pump when the temperature rises outside it raises the pressure inside the of the copper pipes which in turns raises the temperature of the refrigerant.
I think the word your looking for is“Refrigerant”! Regardless if heat pump or not the Freon temperature rises if ambient temperature is hot.
Bravo. Well done guys. Greetings from Iran
All great comments. I have also added a solar system to power my AC's. Electric cost efficiency isn't as much of a concern when the power comes from the sun...
But AC's heat up the environment and also produce freone gas that damage our environment
@@legendboyAni First, they don't use Freone in the States anymore. Second, only if vented into the atmosphere was it a problem. AC's do not heat up the enviorment either. Does the sun hitting stone and warming the stone warm up the enviorment too. So, what would you use to cool a house if not an AC. Be practicle too.
The company I worked for in England "Calorex Heatpumps " produced a groundwater heatpump , the size of an undercounter fridge, consuming 1Kw max providing H.W for underfloor heat & surplus to Domestic H.W.
Really fun reading so many clueless comments. Loved the one about radon. This really does work and is not a scam.. but that said. some here just are not willing to read or talk to someone who has a clue There is no free lunch and with these systems people tend to undersize them because $$$$ upfront is a killer There are lots of ways to bring the cost of heating and cooling down. First one. BE efficient. Seal the house.. insulate the house control air and moisture movement.
Steve Pailet I’m a plumber.
It is a good system indeed. Though this system is a rich man or woman’s game. It will take you 20 years on average to pay back the savings on the extra hardware and installation. Then you are making money.
It is simple. You have to take the ground temperature and raise it or lower it with another heating or cooling source.
but how much does it raise the value of house
This is like every single home should be built. A little bit of science here. Learn from mother nature, look at trees: 1) They collect energy from the sun by leaves, kinda small solar panels, it can even adjust them to track the sun efficiently = we do same by solar panels 2) They use that sun energy to extract carbon from CO2 gas by means of photosynthesis = we do same to collect free electrons from doped Silicon atoms in solar cells. 3) they store accumulated energy inside trunk in form of carbon, trunk is a battery = we do same with battery storage. 4) they use that stored energy to heat and cool itself by running heat exchange with earth via root system, roots are kinda heat pump plumbing = we do same with geothermal heat pumps 5) they extract water from earth = we drill wells. Really, we should be independent from any public services, universe provided as everything needed to live, and it's all renewable. Trees are standing out there kinda screaming look at me, look how I do it. They are like huge hint in front of our eyes for thousands of years. Forgot to mention that tress extract carbon by means of photosynthesis - the most efficient energy conversion process ever known to mankind.
And how much does it cost the homeowner to dig the trenches, install the pipes, and rig the entire system? I notice you did NOT include such common sense information like THAT! (Hmm, I wonder why?)
@@jackfenn7524 expensive, at 70 years old and building a house, not cost effective.
@@roscoepatternworks3471 Dont feel like planting shade trees because you will not personally get to use the shade? Nah you are a Boomer... screw the future we have me to think about.
@@vuchaser99 what are you talking about? I live in a desert, but I still have 7 fruit trees. But I believe the topic was geothermal energy. Putting in geothermal is not cost effective, for me. And exactly how may trees have you planted for your future generations?
I think think earthy homes are better. If you have the right thermal mass you dont need any type of system. It will stay withing 8 degrees all year round no matter the climate.
These are better & more reliable than air/air systems. I've installed some & it was
more efficient especially on Heat Pump systems. We don't see them too often
because builders don't want to pay the extra costs involved to install these. It's
more expensive & takes more time to drill or dig. Then it must be pressure tested
which all takes time / money they'd rather not spend. It's not difficult to install
these systems & if I owned a home I'd want one, they're that much better.
peace
Heat Pump will switch to Electric Strip heat Below 40º & that is expensive
Great environment friendly technology. It will also helpful to reduce green house gas effects.
Have had a geothermal(heat and AC) system for 25 years in mid Michigan works excellent and about 75% cheaper to operate than natural gas furnace. Never any problems until yesterday developed freeon leak. R22 freeon is no longer sold or can be used in US. Now I have to purchased new system, $16,000.00. I use well water (open loop system). Well water is always around 55/56 degrees, furnace extracts 6 to 8 degrees(by compressing) from the water which than goes into lake. Heat coming out of furnace is around 100 degrees. AC is just the opposite takes the warm return air, extracts heat and blows out cool air. If not for banned freeon it would continue to run for many years more.
zip54 They still sell R22 don’t let them lie to you it’s just remanufactured
They have drop in replacement r-22 one is called nu-22
www.ebay.com/i/324009638120?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&itemid=324009638120&targetid=877051577709&device=m&mktype=pla&googleloc=9009735&poi=&campaignid=9426356364&mkgroupid=96480183780&rlsatarget=aud-412677883135:pla-877051577709&abcId=1140476&merchantid=6296724&gclid=Cj0KCQiA-bjyBRCcARIsAFboWg39r0KKyEkKbvtOIxhADMpHNedaShyJpuXnCWkwUpHuTIy4_kLcB5gaAphEEALw_wcB
Also stop leak as a last resort..depending on leak size. Def last resort because stop leak can also cause clogs.
www.ebay.com/itm/R-134a-R12-R22-R502-Pro-Seal-Super-Stop-Leak-Envirosafe-Refrigerant-4-oz-can/283456251760?epid=1346577249&hash=item41ff4f2770:g:iZMAAOSw1UdcuLMq
I installed two open loop geothermal units in a house and carriage house I built for my son in Michigan. Both were insufficient to keep up with heating or air conditioning, didn't supply enough hot water and were extremely noisy. These were made by Heat Controller company in Jackson, Michigan. When the main unit in the house busted a pipe and flooded the crawl space, the company refused to honor the warranty. I've ripped them out and replaced them with high efficiency gas furnaces and conventional air conditioning. The utility bills are less than half than they were with geothermal.
hahahah this is good to hear. An honest guy who went old school.
In my opinion, geothermal makes the most sense on new construction that can be designed with this type of system in mind. Retrofitting geothermal into an existing 'leaky' home would be a huge waste, unless you tightly seal and re-insulate the entire envelope first.
You could do it pretty cheap just by burying corrosion-resistant 6-inch pipe and have a small blower installed. Winter and summer, you'd get that 50-60-degree air circulating into your living space. Even without any other heating or cooling source, you'd never freeze or cook. Insulation is great, but I want my house to BREATHE.
I love this!
Can be great for farming as well
Dig a ditch. Put some rocks in it, with a looped plastic 6 inch perforated pvc pipe in it. Loop the pipe through your floor, and you have a year round passive heating system in your house. (75 degree heating and cooling year round!) Costs a hell of a lot less than "professional" systems!
Been apart of several amateur builds with loops. Loops are easy if you have a good patch of land free(grass 2000sqft). Rent a backhoe yourself and do the trenching yourself.There is no need to remove all the dirt as shown in the video.
RIGHT!
The only catch is the up front cost is expensive
Sometimes we have extremly cold weather, and the ground freezes deeply. Then we get Ice Quakes. the ground freeze deeper than eight feet, and expands, and shifts in limited space it occupies. Then you get stress, and earth quakes.
We have both a gas furnace (emergency heat) and a conventional heat pump. I'm finding out that at about 40 degrees and below it is more economical to heat the home with the gas furnace. The heat pump doesn't deliver hot air through the ducting (warmed air, but not hot) and the spouse is happier when it is cold outside to have the gas furnace heating the home (happy wife. happy life!).
Just sharing my experiences. Mine may be unique.
Almost everywhere in the globe the earth temperature at the depth of 3-4 meter is constant and which is the average yearly temperature so it will be lower in summer than outside and vice versa for winter.
No shit sherlock.
How would a builder/remodeler do this in the deep south, where the climate is a little different? Mainly the ground source heat pump. Here in the greater New Orleans, La area, there is a heck of a lot of soil movement/soil subsidence. We are constantly pumping sand under the foundation of the houses, jacking up the houses to level and leveling the yards with either sand or top soil. How would this effect the physical components and connections of the equipment, as well as the efficiency and operation of the system?
Also, I used to live in the greater Seattle, WA area and understand that a majority of the houses there don't have A/C systems. How would you incorporate an A/C system and still be Net Zero?
We replaced our standard HVAC system when it neared the end of the average life span. The Geothermal has been AMAZING!
It has taken us through several Missouri summers with many, many days above 100 degrees. Inside was comfortable at 70 degrees and NO big air conditioner equipment outside. The water in our loops is cooled by the earth, and a fan blows past the loop to send cool air though our home via the existing ducts. Likewise, the earth's heat is brought into our home, magnified through the compressor to keep us at 70 degrees in the winter.
We didn't even have to switch from our long-time HVAC company for service and seasonal maintenance. The same guys that installed our old system put in our Geothermal and they service both types - super easy! If your HVAC unit is nearing the end of its life...change over to Geothermal! You'll be happy you did.
Which part of MO? which company installed your system?
These systems will cost more than a traditional system, but what you have to factor into the equation is "How much will I spend to heat and cool my house?" So if you are building in Fairbanks, Alaska, where most of the heating is done via fossil fuels, you can cut the fuel bill to nothing. The kicker is you have to take out a loan that may add $100 a month to your mortgage. So its simple really. How much on average do I spend heating my house? If it is $200 a month, then you should have already done it.
Learning the hard way. Bought a house in Ohio that has geothermal already installed. Had inspections that every work properly. Replaced after 1st year, 3 companies, 3 estimates, all said undersized. Heating bills from mid November to end March 3500 to 4000 total. Installed wood burner stove to heat house, bill dropped to 200 for average. House is 3000 sf ranch, w/good insulation. Geo unit is 3 ton air side, which works great, average bill 225 summer, but in the winter, if it gets below 30 deg it’s a piece of junk. Oh, the heat side is 2 units at a total of 6 ton. Uses all electric below 30 deg and will only heat to 68 degs. That first 875 dollar bill for the month of Dec. was more that a shock. Now 7 years later, and a tech out every 6 months to service unit, they say it needs replaced. A worthless piece of junk, and a con job by a industry as a hole. Luckily they ran natural gas this spring down our road, so the heat side will be toast by fall. Save your money, don’t buy into this, it’s not meant for heat in cold climates. That 2nd year cost us almost 20,000 with the replacement of units, heating cost, and , misalliance.
Darn, it seemed like a good system
WTW Could it be that this system that house had could have just had some issues on top of not being deep enough into ground? I’m just wondering after reading your whole message.
Also, to modify the system, I have an idea, what if a solar water heater was added to the output end of the geothermal system to boost its resting heat output? You’d have pretty hot water flowing through those pipes to warm the home all you’d have to do is put the solar water heater on a remote controlled swivel and program it to follow the sun 24/7. I say this because my house has a solar panel array that cuts my electricity bill to zero. So I have electricity to play with. I plan on living north. Not Alaska or Washington north but moderately north. Nothing higher than Oregon.
Do you have all the wall openings sealed in the attic ? My bill dropped to half once i sealed my basement and wall openings in antique with a cheapest form filler spray.
Is that not obvious?
Bravo alberto
nice explanations
noted
the geologist
from indonisia . . . haloooooo
Heating water requires expensive energy which be a great energy draw. Having the assist of earth heated water is a boon. After Geothermal is installed a backup of solar energy to provide for the clothes dryer there and lights (pc and phone charging) makes sense.
Solar + Wind Power + Storage System + Insulation = Winner!
Solar makes sense, (solar ponds, ILLEGAL!). Wind power, (good idea, but "wind turbines" are designed to LOSE money, so ANOTHER loser!) Storage system, (battery). Battery systems are expensive, and degrade over time. Insulation is a big winner, worth more than all the rest combined. But benefit/versus cost analysis is necessary, and there is none here.
Solar makes no sense unless you can find a way to stop hail storms and tornadoes and torrential rain.or make them unbreakable, also, something that requires batteries over and over again is not environmentally friendly not to mention having to replace panels every 10 years.
Problem in major cities implementation is difficult remote areas can avail benefits
yes . This will not work in dense urban areas.
The up front cost kills it. If there was a way to bring that down, may be it would be more utilised.
On your side of the pond, (I assume you are English), you have less solar days than here. But your wind days are more profitable, provided you design and build your own wind turbine, AND MAKE SURE THE SAILS ARE LARGE!
build it yourself.
what about radon gas ?
Show!!!!🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷
My climate master failed twice within the first year. It was missing a wire harness from the factory and had to be replaced before it was started. About 10 months into the use of the system it failed again. The expansion valve needed to be replaced. What’s next?
Love it...But one has to wonder about shifting earth breaking lines over the years.....who keep track of those statistics ??
They've been using polyethylene (PE) plastic for for natural gas for 40 years. The benefit is it will shift with the ground and move for roots.
I have a question. What IF...instead of those expensive horizontal coils (vertical to service high-rise buildings) you had a Eutectic salt tank in the basement? Then, you could run the AC during off-peak times, when the outside temperature is cool (in the Summer) or relatively warm (in Winter.) There would be no central distribution fan. A Saltwater Bath is Zero Fahrenheit. In the case of AC, you can use a heat exchanger in the bath, and distribute the antifreeze to split systems near the ceilings of all rooms. The heating coils could be inside a boiler, with a heat exchanger in the tank, and an outside radiator. The radiator pump and fan would also be most efficient in the wee hours.
In the Cold months, you could simply divert the hot water into baseboard heaters, with piping from the boiler tank, and the excess cold from the salt tank could be diverted outside through the same outdoor heat exchanger-in the this case in the afternoon-the relatively warm part of the day.
PS: this would have the additional benefit that you would not need to reverse the flow of the system. This means, that in Fall and Spring, you could easily use Heat or AC at different times of the same day.
In Canada we use a candle to heat our igloos!
In Iraq we ... Screaming help from God ...😂 To hot or to cold ..God damn
Well snow is a great insulator, just don't light too many of them.
Obviously the immediate worries are - how long before the below ground pipework develops a leak then everything is just too costly and waste of time and money and obviously no heat. And would this last years and years?? For example my house is 90 years old with still the same roof tile. Well, yes I have cleaned the roof tiles and preserved it.
I would want to know how ground composition impacts the effectiveness of such a system. If you're building someplace that is principally adobe shale, digging a system will be far more expensive than in "dirt", and I wonder how the density of the ground impacts heat transfer, and how fast the differential dissipates vs. becoming saturated, so that the cooling effect in summer will degrade over time as the local "soil" (rock) fails to pass the heat away into surrounding material.
How different would the effectiveness be if an air conditioner's condenser employed water, cooled underground using a grid, or series of grids? What if the entire condenser was immersed in cold circulating water in a jacket, so that dirt was not introduced to the water, and operation did not rely on transferring heat to the outside air AT ALL? Since it would be a sealed system, it would not have to be water -- it could be something that conducted heat and prevented deterioration of the condenser body and fins.
sir these type of geothermal systems are nothing new and the questions you are asking are all part of the planing process of such a system.. as it has to be dimensioned big enough to fullfill the cooling and heating requirements of the house.. in order to have system reliability as you mentioned the designer will always go oversize in order to keep the influence of the disturbance variables low ( like soil etc. ). if all is planned well and installed correctly there is no need for additional systems as the system itself is simple and reliable, additions would make it more costly and less reliable with higher costs of maintenance..
as for the air conditioner´s condencer employed in "water cooled from the underground grid".. that is exactly the heatpump system used in geothermal.. you have the closed loops of water running in the ground to a heatexchanger in your house and the heatpump is there to either use it as "heat" or "cold".... if planned exeptionally well ( depending on the ground ) you can even store heat through the summer in the ground and retrieve it in the winter time and vice versa.
but the degrading "cooling" effect is "just" a change in efficiency of the heatpump, which does result in the heatpump using up more power.. but as mentioned if the dimensions of the loop are correct the heatpump will run with in efficient parameters may only end up using a couple percent more energy at the end of the cooling cycle of the year, after that part of the heat can be potentially retrieved again in winter making the first period of the heating cycles even more efficient..
Whoa, boy..., that risk of vandalism,,, glad they addressed that.... vandals goin around damaging units in fenced in backyards ,, and such close proximity to house full of humans.... it’s just rampant here in sparks nevada..... I mean it’s crazy
It's not totally off subject it is about energy
I had to do a prodject on geothermal...so thanks for the information😊!
So this won't work for a single home in a city where the temperature is near and below freezing during the day for several weeks at a time due to limited available space.
I wish north Texas HVAC companies would embrace this technology . I moved into a house built in 1963 some 30 years ago . I put the best windows and a white metal roof on but nobody would install geothermal. Now I can't afford it !
Check out the underground "cities" in Turkey. Not much is known about them, but I assume this is how humans survived the ice age..
sometimes 1008 some of those cavities are so precise, may not be humans.......
Sure, but they also expense a TON of radiation. Living in mountains, caves, etc are bad ideas. You might as well live outside and have the sun hit you 24/7
@@MissAllanPoe1988 Unless you setup camp in an uranium mine, the radiation levels drops to nearly zero the further down you go.
@@MissAllanPoe1988 that underground cities are made of %100 limestone. no need to worry about radiation they are even better than concrete.
Theres a community from Cooper Pedy in the Australian outback that lives underground because it's just too hot above surface!
My sisters are real-estate appraisers. They increase the value of your house. Over a 15 year period you quickly you quickly make your money back.
I wonder if the way to go is to build a super-insulated Passive House. Aside from the solar heat gain from the south-facing windows, one could use solar water heaters on the roof and a radiant heating system. Also, with the price of solar panels continuing to drop, it's definitely one way to keep an eye on as being the cheapest way to get to Net Zero energy use. I would think this would be more effective in colder climates than warmer areas, however.
Only if you have control over where the house is facing. That is not an option for the majority of people in cities or urban areas. Passive is an option for rural areas where there is less control over things like that.
I don't get it. Why do you need antifreeze if your pipes are below frostline? Better efficiency?
is this energy piles??
I have done experiments! I dug a 20 foot hole, and placed thermometers at various depths. I lived in the center of the USA in St.. Louis, Missouri. You have to dig about 20 feet down to
reach a temperature that does not change with the seasons. That temperature is 60F. Your video says "55F". That might be true in the far northern states. In the middle, it is 60F. In the southern states it is probably 65F I now live in the southern state of Florida, and have not done experimenting..... yet.
Northern States are like 40º
@Boe Dillard I never found out for sure but at about 20 ft... the dirt started to be muddy. I suspect maybe 25 or 30 ft.
@Josh Jordan Those tests were done when I lived in St. Louis, Missouri. I moved to florida 8 months ago.
A few feet down is a misnomer.
We just got a quote for this in Austria of 70,000-75,000 euros! Our lot would need the vertical system. This is out of reach financially.
Geothermal cooling system doesn't need a pump like Air conditioning system? That pump hot vapour into a small nozzle to get cold vapour on the other side? Can hot vapour in a pipe change temperature into cold vapour without a pump? Plz let me know and thanks for the video.
Question: If the temperature below ground is a consistent 55 degrees, then doesn't that mean a house can only be heated or cooled no more than the source limit (55 degrees)? OR is there more processes in place to up that? While I don't ever foresee needing to cool a house to 55 degrees, heat stacks so if its 110 outside and I an dumping heat outside, I am warming the thermal mass of the the earth where my loop is located. The heat would wick away sure how does it cool fast enough to keep up? Inverse to that, how do we get temperatures hotter for say winter times were we want a house to be 68-70 degrees and water up to say 120 degrees?
No u can use it like any gas or electric heater your house can be 85 degrees if you want. Somehow the process builds up heat in the collection process
Is there any comment from a person who already has this installed and using in their house / office??
I wonder how much this costs. I'm guessing if this saves 80% that probably means it will cost 160% x amount saved, in 2 years up front or more
7-20k depends on the Buildings volume
pmp2559 we installed a geothermal heatpump for heating water for a family of 6, and using the water to heat the house, cooling (about 3600 square feet, 10 feet high ceiling). In the winter the temperatures go down to about 14F. And in the summer its about 75f. We had all full electrical before this. Our bill for heating, cooling has cut down by 70%. Great system!!! It costs alot to install and new ducting and all but in a fee years that will have payed off since it saves so much money!
Is the cost of the system less than the interest you have to pay to get a loan to install it?
@@robigeisi6530 what do you use to store your cooling (ice battery) or for the storage of your heating? Also... what type of fluid are you using to combat the freezing temperatures on the cooling and the "boiling" of the heating side? I install these systems and I have never heard of someone's electricity bill going down. I mean you have the compressor, heating pumps, domestic hot water pumps, cooling pumps, fan coil units, three way valves, etc.. 3600 square feet requires al the minimum of 2 heat pumps. I agree when the system is operating to full potential it is a very good system, just not cheap on electricity. I've installed photovoltaic panels to help combat the high electricity bills but it's still expensive.
We did a retrofit on our house. This is our 4th winter with the system. We have a large house: 3300 sq ft with a 22 ft vaulted ceiling upstairs made 100% of red cedar so the volume of space to heat is huge which meant we needed a huge system. Our total project cost about 36k which sounds awful. So far, very happy with the system though. Set at 72 all year around. Tough to determine payback since we heated everything with wood previously but we estimate about 10 years. I guess I don't have to cut 40-50 pickup loads of wood anymore. The system in January (Wisconsin winter, temps consistently below 0 this time of year) will cost about $180-200 dollars in electricity including domestic hot water. Considerably less the rest of the year, about $40 to cool in July and August. We didn't use Climate Master, went with Water Furnace Synergy system which does all forced air and basement hydronic heat. Long term it will be a great investment.
I have family who tried this, a niece and her husband. It has been a nightmare for over ten years. The company no longer even tries to get it to work. It never has worked. A complete waste of about $50,000 They live by Perham Minnesota, it doesn't work there.
about 99% of the time this has to do with inadequate amount of ground loop. People try to cheap out and do not put in enough water loop per ton.. Have seen some who do 250 ft of loop per ton. wont work.. 800 ft per ton seems to be the number I hear more consistently ... Think of it this way .. you can put a 1 liter engine in a 5000 pound car.. It will move but sure would not ever want to try to get on the expressway with that dog
The only way to use a geothermal system is a well-known brand Waterfurnace , do not at all buy a cheaper unit. water heat pumps from years ago last 20 to 30 years today, lucky to get 6 to 10 years, less if it is a cheapo. plus install yourself and learn . -30c one needs backup heat also I use my mostly in the spring and fall. when running a boiler or woodstove is uneconomical .
How long can the system run before the exchange warms or cools the soil around it. And at what loss in temperature?
That soil remains the same temperature forever. NEVER runs out.
jack fenn it would have to absorb the differential temp. In turn evening out. A small change I can see but 50 deg difference flowing at a constant rate.
I see foundations going in during the cold months. They use an oil pumping heater and rods to thermally transfer heat. They surrounding soil transfers about 2 feet out from the rod. Straight down with a small hole. I get it is just not enough of a difference to change the output. But horizontally loosing heat to the top soil and pipes running back and forth. I kind of vision a heated floor set up.
It's a good question, during summer (on a horizontal laid system) pumping heat into the soil for hours and weeks on end, the soil dries out? And begins to lose its ability to "cool" the pipe?
Will this work in the tropics?
We installed years ago for vise president of Milliken corp in south Carolina.worked fantastic. Produced free hot water. carrier system.
if the temperature underneath is a constant 55 degrees all year round, is it possible and safe to just built an underground house ? forget the norm, I would welcome a safe underground house that stays cool during blazing summers and mildly cool during harsh winters
would have lovely views out the windows too..... ???
@@anthonyraven9823 lovely views are overrated when you have security , year round controlled temperature . Besides, if you want a great view, just climb outside of the underground home.
like underground homes in coober pedy australia
@@stivi739 nice place
@@anthonyraven9823 windows are obsolete and to honest offer more disadvantages than advantages.
There is an easier, more useful, and better way than digging all of this just for the sake of extending pipes, and it can be used anywhere on the ground under special conditions according to each region, but the idea needs support from anyone whom I might make a partner in this innovation.
How this will work in tropical area like in North Africa where it’s too hot ? Do we also need electricity to make it work ?
It should work anywhere, yes, it needs power to run the compressor and blower fan.
by the vertical loop systems is the groundwater quality endangered by the temperature changes in underground!
Total cost please tell us
See video about the guy growing oranges in Nebraska. He just buried 6-inch stovepipes. No messy anti-freeze/water in the pipes. Just bury the pipes 8 feet under ground. Then a low-wattage fan to push air through the pipes and the air that comes back is at ground temp. The guy who's doing this for his greenhouse in Nebraska uses 200 feet of pipe to achieve this. These guys are making it way more complicated, expensie and energy-intensive than it needs to be. Why even mess with a water pump? All you have to do is move air through buried pipes. You just need enough pipe and a day or two with an excavator to excavate and then fill it back in.
I'd pair such a system with a rocket-stove mass heater, for emergency back-up in winter.
Insulating a box on top of the ground is also kind of silly. You don't WANT a sealed-up house. Instead, build it into the ground. North side and most of East and West side in the ground, with a southern exposure covered with glass to capture solar. In summer, use SHADE (i.e. growing things!) to keep the sun out. So many things you can do if you're building a place. If you already own a place, and it's built on a slab without a basement, you're already kind of in a bind. At the least, I would avoid ever buying a home that didn't have a full basement. That right there gives you a nice microclimate, before you ever turn on heating or cooling.
Interesting but home many years to recover the cost?
gr8 video!
Why am i only seeing this now!?
Geothermal is the way to go for sure. But is 55°F warm enough for winter heating by itself? No you will still need some other heating as well.
I'm curious about it, too.
Hi
I did a corse in Sweden ,ground sorse
And air sorse heat pumps every time
They have a shortfall of in performance they back it up with
A massive amount of electricity
Fortunately for them they have
An abundant supply of hydro and geothermal energy if u don't don't do it
and so? that is exactly why you use geothermal, because you can run the heatpump from a constant temperatured source and run the heatpump very efficiently.. if they fall short in performance and back it up with a massive amount of energy the designer of the system should take a shotgun and go behind a barn.. sry but this is not rocket science and wasn´t even 30 years ago when were putting in in houses..
i need some thing like this for off grid
you still need electricity to run the heat pump .
@@MrBemnet1 And the 7-9 KW compressor which is what´s doing 90% of the heating and runs more or less non stop .. these things are a total scam, cost a fortune to have put in and take for ever before there is any return investment , and will absolutely destroy anyones electricity bill .
@@34979Charlie are you sure that they run continuously? why is that ? The purpose of the heat pump using ground water is to increase the COP because the temperature of the water is higher than the air outside.
To run these heat pumps along with recirc pumps, fan coil units, etc. require a ton of electricity. By using this system you are not directly burning fuel but indirectly you are. These systems are worthless if you dont use distilled water with a glycol or ethanol. Not only all that but you have to have a stable supply of electricity because the heat pumps are sensitive to surges or brownouts.
The heat pumps we use are water furnace and the compressors on these units burn out often due to electricity issues.
Best way to go is a high efficiency boiler (Veissman, Locinvar, etc) with a sidearm tank for domestic hot water with a split unit for cooling. Just my opinion.
Which units tho?
how do you compress the heat to a much higher temperature??
Give me a 20 seer variable capacity heat pump. Geothermal is cool but it’s not the end all be all.
how do you decided to go with horizontal earth loop vs well water source and discharging to lake or to well?
Ingenious
The Romans did it over 2000 years ago. Old technology. Basements are famous for making the house above them much cheaper to heat and cool.
Would it work if your making a 20 story building though? For example apartments
A software company in Madison, Wisconsin uses this system to heat and cool 3 very large office buildings it built in the early 2000's. Epic, I believe, is the name of the company.
I went today and bought 100 ft of plastic drain 4in.gonna bury 8ft.if it fills w water. due to leak. I will push 3in hose thru it.
Lol how'd that work for you?
what's the song?
Knew a guy that had electric put in the steep driveway when he built his house on a hill