Mount St. Helens: Why They Died - 1982
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- Опубліковано 8 вер 2024
- Documentary about the victims of the Mount St. Helens eruption and the lawsuit brought against the State Of Washington that originally aired on PBS in the early 1980s. Interviews with victims families and former Gov. Dixy Lee Ray are also included.
It's typical - "You have no right to tell me where I can go and what I can do! It's unconstitutional" Then when those choices go bad "Why didn't you tell me? Why didn't you protect me from my stupidity?"
Im not a libertarian, but yeah stay the fuck away from an active volcano dumbasses, it's simple.
Absolutely correct. Asking an elected official to predict or control mother nature is ludicrous. Now days it would be, play stupid games, get stupid prizes.
And yet you blamed Bush for Katrina
True, but conversely hazard analysis when done should not then be looked and then put on oneside due to financial or political considerations.
Hoping for a best case scenario,or the scenario that fits what you wish would happen, is never going to end well, especially with an unpredictable volcano. Nature does not care about $$.
Moral of story: Stay very far away from a very active volcano.
As anyone who had ever heard of Pompeii should have known.
@@tomernest2004Yep.
They were away from it. That was why they were in a blue zone. It was a 10,000ft mountain. You could see it for miles and miles. People died 15 to 19 miles away and even further away from the Lahars. These people thought they were safe because, they were mislead.
I think everyone, including the geologists underestimated the power of that eruption, especially the power of that lateral blast. Yes, David Johnston warned about it, but had he expected what really happened, I doubt he would have been on the ridge that now bears his name. It was, after all, five miles from the mountain.
The point is that a lot was learned from that eruption, which, because it was located in the continental US, was heavily studied, probably more so than any previous volcano. And those lessons have been applied to other volcanic eruptions that have occurred since, and have saved lives. Evacuation zones are much larger, and public officials now listen to geologists in terms of their warnings.
Geologists still cannot pinpoint the exact time and place of major eruptions, but they have gotten a lot better at predicting the approximate time, with instrumentation that’s much more accurate and precise than what was available in 1980. Mount St. Helens is still being closely observed to this day.
Moral of the story: Don't count on anyone to save your ass.
correct. people still get stuck in snow storms in major cities.
I wouldn’t go quite that far. There were many rescue crews flying by helicopter (itself dangerous due to the very real possibility of the ash getting into the engines, and shutting them down) into the devastated area, rescuing many people, and searching for those who had died.
Obviously there was no guarantee that anyone would be saved, but those National Guard pilots did risk their lives to try to save people in trouble. But it was a difficult task, because the contours had completely changed, and everything was one color- grey. That made it difficult to spot ash covered humans in an ash covered environment.
It was fortunate that the eruption happened early on a Sunday morning, which limited the fatalities to 57. Any other day of the week, and there would have been hundreds of loggers caught in the blast area, with most of them being killed. Had it happened any later in the day on that Sunday, that convoy of property owners who were demanding access to their homes and land would have been in that area.
A) it was, and still is impossible to predict with any certainty the way a volcano will explode.
B) clearly part of the zoning process took into account the the logging business.
C) I don't believe anyone had much appreciation for the explosive type of eruption that was coming, or even knew what a lahar was
C) camping anywhere near an active volcano, one that was all over the news for weeks with eruption near certain, was dumb
It's a case of "YOLO" that I still don't understand. "You only live once. Better make it count!" My opinion is, "You only live once. Better be careful because there's no do-over." As unfortunate as loss of lives may be, there are some situations in which I have to just point out, "You get what's coming to you if you do stupid shit." Ran a red light? Don't bitch when you get a ticket. Crossed a double-yellow line to pass someone going the speed limit? Don't be surprised or upset if you end up killing someone (and being tossed in jail to rot for vehicular manslaughter.) Same mental process goes for anything. If you do something stupid, expect consequences.
HOWEVER! Officials should seriously consider things like public safety versus covering their asses, and when evidence supports a more ominous outcome, perhaps you should anticipate the negative outcome rather than something downplayed and cautious. Caution when it could result in the loss of so many lives is foolish, and no different from one of the governments ignoring warnings of a massive explosion and resulting in the deaths of thousands of people despite volcanologist warnings.
Zira Vinova I could not agree more. That those, who have active, working knowledge of a situation, do not speak up forcefully to point out REAL POTENTIAL dangers... because they don't want to look bad IF nothing happens ... is a 'Cop Out'.
It is one thing to cry "Wolf"... when there is NO Wolf, ... but here we had a clear and present danger ..and just because the Wolf had not BITTEN them... YET ... is no reason to remain silent.
IVolcanoes and earthquakes, by their very nature are difficult to predict, so for those who would find fault with those in the Field who speak to the best of their ability... SHAME on them, .. they are now part of the problem.
Just by the nature of the topic there will be mis-predictions... but just because 'The Wolf' MIGHT not actually attack there is STILL AN OBLIGATION to the pubic to say LOOK .. There is a 'Wolf' here... pay Attention.
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Agreed.
The hell with the zone.. nobody with any brain would go camping near a active volcanoe.. common sense.
Mt. Lamington 1951
The reason that the red zone was so narrow on the northwest side is that land was owned by Weyerhaeuser which did not want any restrictions on its normal timber harvesting activity. As for the bulge, when several hundred acres of rock and soil are being lifting 5 feet per day, one need not be an engineering student (which I was) to know that can only be caused by a tremendous amount of force. Watching the TV news reports and reading the Seattle Times and PI (which never published a MAP of the red and blue zones before the eruption) I deduced that we had a possible Crater Lake explosion in the making. Of course the blast wave is going in the direction of least resistance. Mt. St. Helens was a giant claymore mine. You see a bulge that big in the side of a volcanic mountain, get away!
I was 10 years old at the time, and when they first mentioned the bulge in the news my eyes popped out of my head. Even at my fresh age I knew that nobody with any common sense should be anywhere near the side of the mountain where the bulge was. I'm not absolving the government of any responsibility, because they clearly failed to provide adequate warnings. But it didn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that people needed to stay as far away from the mountain as possible.
I was a college student in Oregon and recall following the activity with the initial earthquake activityI can recollect people starting to lose inteand ash activity subsided. I can’t recall the media putting much emphasis on the growing bulge and do not recall seeing the images of the bulge as it was prior to erupting. Most of the conversation I recall just prior was the government over reacting. I agree it definitely didn’t take rocket science by looking at the daily expansionof the bulge to determine what would ultimately happen to the mountain
The relatives of the Weyerhaeuser employees who died should've sued the company. I don't know, they probably did!
I totally agree! As far as I'm concerned, there were 2 full months of warnings. Until the bulge was gone the threat was still imminent.
They would take the path of least resistance because the bulge took that path. The "plug" resisted a vertical eruption, so the primary eruption was lateral. Then it looked to me like the eruption BECAME vertical and the 'pipeline' from the magma chamber was connected to the cone after the plug was blown out AFTER the lateral eruption. So it was BOTH lateral AND vertical - in that order.
@@thepopster- I was just a child when St Helens erupted. I've watched a lot of documentaries on the eruption, including old news reports. Only a handful (maybe 2 out of 5 as an example) mentions the "bulge" as an issue. Many of the geologists stated AFTER the eruption that they didn't expect a lateral eruption from that bulge.
Didn't some who were evacuated demanded to go back to their property? Claiming they pay taxes? Human beings always point the blame and don't want to take any responsibilities for themselves...
That’s correct. I just watched video footage of that exact thing.
I wonder what happened to the woman. Did she survive?
Probably vaporized
The Red zone hadn't reopened for the day when the mountain blew up and 54 of the 57 people killed were outside of the red zone. They weren't expecting the lateral blast, even though David Johnston repeatedly warned against it.
They absolutely did. People are ridiculous. People will always do what they want.
I am sorry that people died, but they were there for one reason and that was the thrill of maybe seeing an eruption up closed and living on what might be the 'edge'. Many. many other people did not die, because they flat out just stayed away from what was a danger. Mr Killian claiming that his son was 'lured' in by the boundaries set up is ridiculous, he was lured in by his own need to do something risky. If hi son was old enough to be married he was old enough to know the risk he was taking when he took it. I am tired of it being the states job to baby sit people and 'keep them safe'. I understand the scientists felt like they had to be there - their job to collect data and the loggers doing their job, but the campers and tourists and hikers - they were there under their own free will and no one forced them up that mountain. I suspect the reason they have not found a thing that belong to their son is that he was not where they think he was, that he walked around barriers and wanted a 'closer look' and got himself in a place where there will be nothing to find. "Educated, responsible" people do go around signs saying 'closed, stay out. no admission' every day of the week. There was only one reason to be on that mountain in that area at that time and that was because you though there was a chance you would see a volcano erupt. The fact that you might die doing so may have been something they did not consider but that is not the fault of the State of Washington.
I agree with you for the most part. But the thing is that loggers shouldn’t have been allowed to log on that mountain with so many signs of a big eruption coming weeks before May 18, 1980.
I feel this is where the big disconnect is between big business and scientists. I don’t blame the scientists at all here because you can’t predict volcanic eruptions or earthquakes. Even with today’s earthquake early warning systems that have been making its way across to the other cities along the ring of fire, the people living in the epicenter are gonna be shit out of luck. Big businesses need to start taking the safety of their employees first over profits. The State can’t and shouldn’t be blamed either because they get info from scientists who collect data and read what could happen to the best of their abilities, and the State government does its part based off what scientists are able to tell them.
Um... they found their sons sleeping bag, and also found their daughter-in-laws body. I'm pretty sure they were very close to where their son died, just too much debris to find him.
Either way they died trusting what the state had posted.. RIP to all who lost their lives
Pam Duncan :
@@selketskiss56 Yes. That’s the price they paid for being human. Scientists aren’t gods.
" Three frightened loggers walked off the job"...
See, common sense people!
I hope they got better jobs/were rehired because they obviously were smart!
equarg Totally agree. They sent workers out there with a volcano showing signs of an eruption??
I don't understand why those logging companies seeing that there was a large potential for an explosion in their area did not get rid of all the logs and all the equipment ahead of time it was obviously going to blow. You can't have a bulge growing five feet a day and not think that it's going to explode. There was plenty of media coverage you should have gotten rid of all the stuff that you had already cut got it out of there got rid of all your equipment and moved on down the road until afterwards where you would be in a better position to go in and take out those logs that were already knocked over. And all your men would be alive
@@thomasfrye8996 Greed and money Thomas, Greed, they can never get enough. Money, Loss of property, more money from the insurance, the same insurance corporation that refused it for the lower class family's. Then Weyerhaeuser writes off a loss into the millions, not mention taking all the down timber that they could handle for tax free, and to top it off, get paid a contract in the million's for cleaning up the tree's, all among the very tax payers that was stopped from rebuilding on there own land, that they owned there, because it being a area of hazard. Well then, they never should of allowed Weyerhaeuser to cut tree's in these area's ether, but they do. ( Greed and Money ) Thomas.
@thomasfrye8996: I don’t get why they didn’t have the countries largest ever logging operations in the months before it erupted. They should let logging companies from all over the US come and log for like $500 each a month, it would made money for clean up after eruption and brought money to the small towns from all the logging companies there.
All those tree’s/logs went to waste. Over a billion in lost logging (3.3 billion today). Idk if that includes the bridges and everything destroyed or just the logs.
@@letsgobrandon7297, actually those logs didn't "go to waste". They tried to process them after the eruption, but the ash that was embedded in the lumber was so tough that it ruined chain saw blades within ten minutes. Because of the material in the bark, the lumber was effectively unusable!
The guy blaming dixie Lee ray for the death of his loved ones is ridiculous. It was impossible to predict how large the red zone should be. As for the blue zone, blue didn't mean "safe" it just meant if you were a logger and had to feed your family. Had the red zone been bigger residents and loggers would've raised he'll about losing work or their homes. I was 10 and watched the news everyday with fascination, we ALL knew that mountain was going to explode. Lol the idea of camping that close to the mountain after watching the news everyday is insane. I lived about an hour from the Mt and we were afraid like 50 miles away. And we did have a lot of damage, flooded rivers and 4 inches of ash. How quickly people forget what was happening in the months leading up to may 18th
Well said. Plus the fact that there were hundreds of earthquakes a day. The Bulge was growing five feet a day so they knew there was a high potential 4 an eruption. But it's everybody else's fault I didn't hear them one time say my kids should not have went up there
So, you're son and daughter in law, despite being warned about an impending eruption, went camping and were killed. And it's the governments fault?
your son was stupid as was his girlfriend and we see where your son got it from when you blame someone else for his death. Just natural selection at work
My son and daughter in law are not stupid enough to go camping next to a fucking volcano.
Mike Allen they must be liberals. RIP but it just happened .
You all know that those that had to make decisions based upon limited data, were in that “dammed if you do and dammed if you don’t” situation. It’s called Free Will - if they stayed home instead of camping in the area of an active volcano, would they still be alive today? As they said, if the thing blew just 24 hrs later, she and her DIL would likely be widows.... woulda-coulda-shoulda... it’s all just a crapshoot
@@radiomancave6747 they camped almost 10 miles away. At 3,700 feet. The geologists and officials were MORoNs
It's sad to see the grief of the parents, but I think they were misguided in their grief by getting angry at the government.
the son should've been more cautious but th e government should've provided accurate information so he could've made an informed choice based on honest information.
Apart from the responsibilities of the State, what about the personal responsibility of each citizen? Didn't the people who went camping know that this was a volcano ready to erupt? Sure they did...they just chose to ignore that. Why blame the State for your own lack of critical thought? I only feel sympathy towards the scientists and the loggers who were on the mountain because they had to be there- they had jobs to do, they weren't on a bloody camping trip.
God provision for many people if it did happen 24 hours later all the lumber workers around the area will have perished ! Some people were getting ready for church on Sunday morning when the blast happened !
Most of the deaths were also due to the lateral blast nature of the eruption. Too many people--scientists included--assumed the blast would go up, not sideways, based on the behavior of almost every other volcanic eruption. The lateral explosion allowed it to travel much further than assumed (as evidenced by how far the blast traveled to the northwest versus how far it traveled to the south and southeast). It's a terrible assumption that killed a lot of people. Rather than thinking, "How close can I get to the active volcano without dying", one should think, "I don't want to be anywhere near that thing!" When that poor risk decision caused deaths, the next tendency is to blame someone or some organization that has money.
I agree that some people are a little too bold I'm one of those I'm 61 I can't believe sometimes I'm still alive it's like the old man that died I understand him not wanting to go ! Besides 4 people in Saint-Jude were watching the Stanley cup final when their house was swallowed in the ground ! We never know when we will go ! Saint Paul wrote that we won't all died though, check the passage in 1 corinthians chapter 15 especially verse 50 to 55. We don't know when it's gone happen but it will ! :)
If it happened a day later 1000+ would have died.
eleni fokea: It is the state's responsibility because I pay them to do it. I don't have a problem with science screwing up, as long as science learns from that mistake. But I think at issue is an apparent corruption -- that the political establishment weight all concerns, economic and human life risks and moved the line too far in the interest of economic concerns and showing too little concern for human life. Even so, if the eruption had occurred a day later and killed 1000 loggers, that logging company would have lost a LOT more than the few million they would have lost by halting logging in the area for a few months.
I was a senior in high school when mt st Helens blew. There was so much on the news prior to the huge eruption warning people over and over. The blame is in them selves. Why would you want to go camping or hiking fishing? Knowing the mt was going to blow. They'd was several earthquakes prior as well. Common sense will tell you to stay away. People were yelling at law enforcement because they wanted to go check on their property. Its heart breaking lives were lost yes but was there plenty of warnings? Absolutely!!!!!!!
nativerose nativerose was on Whidbey Island in WA State the morning of the blast, I was in the 9th grade. I remember feeling the earth shake and we were 100 miles north of the volcano. The people should not have been allowed in those areas. I never went back to Mt St Helens after the eruption and have no desire to. Mt Rainer is next.
Ms Bandit I was just on Whidbey Island with my friends and family last summer. That’s incredibly insane that you felt the tremors all the way over there. I was in Edmonds but only 3 at the time so I don’t remember a thing,
I’m gonna have to ask my parents.
Crazy thing is that my parents moved back to the Philippines and now live a mere 48 miles from the currently about to erupt Taal Volcano. They’re already getting a centimeter of ash fall even though the volcano is just venting and hasn’t erupted yet.
Ms Bandit hopefully when Rainier goes it’s a clear day so people don’t feel the urge to sightsee. But in this day of Instagram and viral videos you know a bunch of knuckleheads will be caught in the blast zone
If you were in high school you should have been old enough to know they didnt ‘know it was going to blow’, they just had supporting evidence. Volcanos arent timeclocks.
@@7531monkey There were several earthquakes prior to the blast not to mention the growing bulge of the mt.
Um, they built houses near a "dormant" volcano that last erupted less than 100 years ago. The people simply didn't believe it would erupt again. Then when word came that she was going to erupt, people RUSHED to the mountain. Smart.
if they even knew it was a volcano. Or even thought to ask the question.
People were mad because the state closed the areas they did. People were on the roads protesting and were driving around the road blocks. People need to take responsibility for their own actions its not up to the state to protect you.
In a world, where someone who climbs to the top of profession and then claims the deck is stacked against him because of his skin color? In a world where people refuse to fact check opinion news, even after its proven they are being biased? In a world where people are wilfully ignorant, and dismiss actual data, in order to satisfy their religious convictions.. when that is the exact opposite of "faith"? In a world, where people dismiss the entire sum of study.. because they want believe in a government conspiracy.. so they believe in flat planets, and spraying airplanes. In a world where a childrens crusade complains the government is controlling us, stealing from us, and is making everything worse.. and then fights to give that same government, thier own guns. In a world where a infamous movie producer.. who is known for being a complete scumbag to women.. somehow keeps sexually assaulting women, even though they heard the same stories from "5 other women".. but then take responsibility for the scumbags money, but lay the responsibility of their vaginas in the hands of the scumbag.
What do you expect..
Nice to see a Critical and Centrist analysis for a change. Good for you sir!
Bartacomus Kidd - Well freaking said! People know the dangers yet still do things but when disaster happens they want to point the finger at others instead of accepting the blame themselves. It's unfortunate that life was lost but ironically that's life.
are you seriously bringing harvey fucking weinstein into a public policy discussion about a volcano?
i won't entertain arguments about maturity from someone who draws hentai art with the skill of a 3rd grader
"thier guns" Jesus Christ
well said!! 👍your responsible for your own life. The end.
just stay away from the area. period.
Still?
I go there at least once every 2 months. I live 4 hrs away. I was 7 when she blew. But can still remember all the media coverage, and ol Harry Truman, God rest his soul. It's such a beautiful area to explore. And it never gets old or boring
They were in the supposed "safe zone". Plus, plenty of the victims lived and worked there.
Just went twice last month ,and it's smoking !
@@DCOM20. Only 3 of the 57 victims were in the restricted zone.
The rest were loggers in the Blue Zone, or campers even further away. The latter were in areas designated safe by the state government.
If we want to talk morons, how about we talk about your victim-blaming self?
I lived in Vancouver Washington at that time with my parents. I was a preteen in 1980. I hadn't heard about any possible eruption. It was early on a Sunday morning. Harry Trueman should have left voluntarily. He resisted. He didn't want to leave his home, & his late wife & daughter. He was in denial. He didn't want to believe it was going to erupt. The eruption destroyed Spirit Lake & The Toutle River. I have seen the wild life start to grow back. It's incredible how much devastation that it caused. The trees, wildlife, & the people who died. It was so awful. I saw the movie with Art Carney as Harry Trueman. I would love to get the movie. It's completely accurate. I believe Harry was fishing at the lake, & his dog was with him. I wish he had left. He made the choice sadly. R.I.P to the victims, animals & the timber that was ruined. It was a horrible day in our generation.
I don’t know if “damage” is even the right word to describe what the mountain did to the nearby wilderness. Now it’s as if that area, now a barren wasteland, was never forested.
Harry Truman never had a dog at the time St. Helens went off.
He had 16 cats and an unknown number of raccoons.
Also, St. Helens with Art Carney is not an accurate portrayal of events. It has several glaring inaccuracies in it.
@@srosenow98 I've heard Harry had 19 cats, but even he probably didn't know exactly how many.
He must've had a thriving business there or very good insurance - or BOTH, because before his wife died because the lodge was destroyed twice, once by fire and the second time by weather.
@@We_Seek_Truth I watched interviews with Harry in the months before the eruption, and he had stated that he was at that time barely getting by, financially. He just did not want to leave.
KNOWING that there is a possibility of an eruption, anybody with half a brain, would get in their car and GET THE HELL out of the area, just as far as I could get.
People were killed by ash and hot pyroclastic flows as far as 15 miles from the mountain, an incredible distance - drive 15 miles from your house. There was no clear precedent for this, particularly in North America.
you left out the news footage of homeowners who complained not being allowed to return home before the eruption.
Well they weren't afraid and paid their taxes....😅😅 They deserved to see their property....
@@TheMarychinoCherryevery time I see footage of that woman complaining about paying taxes and stating “I’m not afraid!” I want to throw my phone against a wall. I’d bet my retirement that that same woman would have sued the government if she lost a family member.
Keep in mind, the majority of the victims were found MILES outside the danger zone. In most cases, they couldn't even see the mountain.
*Only four of the victims were known to be inside the restricted areas set up by federal and local governments. David Johnston was on duty for the USGS stationed at Coldwater II only 5 miles from the summit. There was the stubborn Harry Truman who refused to leave his lodge at Spirit Lake and was eventually given special permission to stay. And amateur vulcanologists Bob Kaseweter and Beverly Wetherald who had permission to take readings near Spirit Lake at their own risk. The other victims, some as far as 13 miles from the mountain, were in areas considered safe. The thick clouds of ash and raging mudflows caught many people off guard.*
Hindsight is 20/20 and it is clear now that much of the established red and blue zones were driven by business concerns, not public safety. The logging companies would have fought larger zones out of concern for a loss of income. Governor Dixie Ray was pushed by Weyerhaeuser to permit logging in areas much closer to Mt. St. Helens as an example. And of course Mother Nature has never been known to respect boundaries or zones. She'll go wherever she chooses. Thus the majority of the victims were overwhelmed in spite of their trust in business and government assurances.
This episode is a cautionary tale of finger-pointing with the easiest targets being the victims. They can't speak out and defend themselves and the various business and government authorities took advantage of it.
It's not the governments responsibility to take care of you.
The Constitution says otherwise, Mike.
Where in the Constitution does it place the responsibility on the government to take care of you or me? Please point that out.
I think the issue is not government taking care of you, but of providing information free of politics so people can make informed decisions.
Jerry Fisher: Beautifully spoken.
I think one thing people should keep in mind is that no one was expecting the lateral blast. In hind sight people look at that bulge and say, "they should have known." But I do not believe that David Johnston, who was a very educated man and died in the eruption, would have been at Coldwater II which was approximately 5 miles to the north of the mountain, had he thought the blast would be lateral like it was. They set that area up for observation because they felt it was a safe distance from the mountain. Rest In Peace David Johnston.
My Brother was editor for this Film and the team and producers faced a lot of flack for exposing the facts , this was played just a couple of times on PBS before they took it off air.
Mark Amos Nealey , Editor and my brother .
I'm thankful for people on this earth who are determined to tell the truth no matter the consequences they face! Courage
Despite everything said, each individual chose to take the risk, these "facts" do not change my opinion!!!
"Facts" - yeah the producers were simply pandering to those who refused to follow Govt directives, to those who thought that the Govt. was overreaching, and those who paid the price for their arrogance toward the experts.
By and large, those who died did so because they were defiant of the situation at hand, minus those who were there on official business.
This is a sensation piece, perfect for the Harry R. Trumans of the world.
@@SlayHackett I would beg to differ. If you look at a map of where the victims were found, note where the restricted zone boundaries were, you'll see that they had no reason to question the safety of the area they were in. All but three were outside those zones, many were well outside the restricted area. Most of the victims couldn't even see the volcano, and the eruption wasn't expected to blast sideways, and raced over the terrain almost 20 miles.
Those victims were let down by a wide number of people, and were not the thrill seekers, etc, that victim-blamers made them out to be. To dismiss them as such shows a glaring lack of empathy or respect.
These people chose to be in the area of Mount St. Helens. I think it’s very pathetic of the people in these videos to hold the government to blame, especially a governor who put out many many warnings about the dangers of the volcano.
“My relatives went to a super dangerous area and because the red zone wasn’t 1.5 miles bigger it’s the government’s fault they are dead!!”
And if you go outside and get Covid and Die it's Your fault
The government told you to (Stay Home And Stay Safe) But No you had to go outside and now your died
To bad you didn't listen
@@trentdabs5245 Idiocy defines you.
The blame culture in America (and sadly entering UK life now more and more) is a sad state of affairs. Those folk chose to go camping on an active volcano which does not play to the rules of 'red and blue zones.' To try and blame another human being for their deaths is ridiculous, in England we have a case where a family are trying to sue a local council because six adults died whilst swimming off a beach that had no lifeguards. These people knew there where no guards before they entered the water so how can the council be held responsible?
Gee? Maybe we can ask those who traveled to mt. St. Helens that day why they did it. Oh wait. We can't. So stop making assumptions. It t is not the government to blame.
I feel bad that they lost their lives, with that being said if it were me and they were predicting an eruption I woyld not hace gone camping anywhere near there
Don’t stay around volcanos. That’s basic human intelligence. I don’t stand in the path of a tornado.
Go look at a picture of active volcanos in the pnw. Good luck with that one
What has happened to society? Every one has to have someone else to blame! Its called " personal responsibility" ! Those people were there of their own accord and responsibility. You do not have to be a geologist or vulcanologist to know that being anywhere near a volcano that is about to erupt is dangerous and potentially fatal. Do not blame the government for your loved ones stupidity and irresponsibility! People like that really piss me off!
Nicely said!! 👍
Volcano shaped like triangle. Bulge growing at 5 feet/day on north side of triangle. I’m not a geologist and I understand it’s like trying to predict an earthquake. But if there’s one place I’m not going to be, it’s on the north side of the volcano 🌋 ... or am I missing something.
no you are not missing anything. The evidence was there and was shown on TV nightly, especially in the PNW. They said it's a volcano, they said there was lava building up underneath it, and we can all see this bulge. The north side was the danger zone from the start, don't need to be an expert to know that. Those that died, did so because they used poor judgement, it should not take an exclusion zone to keep people away from danger, common sense should have.
The thing that gets me about this is that the volcano didn't explode in how they expected it to. Nobody could have predicted that the mountain would lose the whole side out of it. I understand the anger but it's a natural disaster. The anger is misplaced.
When I was growing up in the 1960s, it was generally understood that a person had the free choice to take a risk, but that risk was their own responsibility, nobody else. Responsibility for personal actions has been weakening since the seventies.
Here are some unfortunate facts...at the time of the eruption, volcanology was extremely new. We, the human race, had very little knowledge of volcanos. When the USGS realized that the chance of an eruption was extremely high, the governor did place an evacuation order. Many people refused to leave, indicating they did not believe the mountain was going to erupt. Also, the USGS had no real idea about the blast radius, and just how far out it would reach. The USGS had a scientist on a overlook observation spot, that was about 5 miles from the mountain...and he died with in a minute or so of the start of the eruption. There were campers in the area that had left...they too also did not understand the threat, like most people. Then, hundreds of people, if not thousands starting to show up to watch the explosion, like a tourist attraction. Logging companies also did not want to leave, since it meant lost of production in logging...ie loss of $$$$. There simply was not enough knowledge about volcanos for people to grasp the concept of the level of danger. Since then, unfortunately too many people once again do not understand the level of danger we all live in, here in the Pacific North West....If Mount Rainer blows it's top (actually when), it will do more damage and more lives will be lost, since it is located closer to major cites...Tacoma, Seattle, and Olympia, and all the smaller towns that surround those cities...many are in danger from the flooding...
Nicely stated... you are correct on when!!! Communities surrounding are built on previous Laharras.
5:52, what "EDUCATED" person would go camping on an ACTIVE VOLCANO?!?!
Dumbass scientists
They weren't camping on an "Active Volcano" they were miles away. Also, the department that opens lakes and rivers for fishing and camping refused to keep them closed. People figured that if it was unsafe they wouldn't be allowed to go there.
Talk about a hit piece. I really do feel for these families but like it has been said multiple times in these comments they choose to go there. How many of these people are the same people that complained that they closed certain areas before the eruption? Crazy this reflects the exact same blame culture that is rampant today.
Why they died. D O H! :/ That mountain didn't erupt, IT EXPLODED!
Blaming the governor because your adult son died in an eruption is wild. For sure don’t go near an active volcano. Sign or no sign.
This event, the film footage is something that most human beings will never see in a 1000 lifetimes.
Here’s to you Harry Truman
Coke and bourbon
3 ice cubes 😁
You know he had that drink in hand and a front row seat
There were people who disregarded all warnings of danger that were in place, and went up there anyway. I saw one couple go in there to the danger zones to camp with their two tiny children, in spite of all warnings; they barely survived. There was one group of guys who thought it would be "fun" to defy all warnings, and sneaked up there too. By some miracle they survived. And then there were those who had their cabins in there and demanded their "rights as taxpayers and property owners" to go into those danger zones. Human arrogance and stupidity have no limits! I never could stand that governor. But no matter what she or law enforcement or anyone else did, they wanted their own way, and got it. And a lot of them died for it. I have no pity for them.
Mrs killians own son warned her not to go into the area. perhaps he should have followed his own instinct. sorry for your loss. bitterness is compared to drinking poison and hoping your enemy dies.
The VOLCANO was responsible and the people who did not use their own intelligence to get the hell out were responsible! I would not have gone anywhere near the dang thing!
I think, of you live, camp, or anything else near an unpredictable site. You take your own unpredictable ass into your own hands, NOT some HUMAN or humans, that has NO idea or can predict, what what could happen.
According to National Geographic the barrier issue was partially because of logging interests who owned most of the land?
I visited in 2019, absolutely stunning! I would go back in a heartbeat.
If my recollection is accurate, they were not expecting a lateral eruption. If it had blown upwards, the damage and loss of life would have been much smaller. However, the lateral eruption caused a much larger debris slide.
The landslide came first. Watch the video again. It opened up the buldge and allowed the hot gas to escape
I lived just 60 miles from St. Helen's in 1980. When the mountain blew up we were all shocked. From the time that the activity began there wasn't much info coming out to the people who were most in danger. I remember my mother calling me from NV a week before the eruption asking if we were prepared for the volcano's imminent eruption but I didn't know what she was saying. We were prepared for disasters by having food storage, water & wood for our stove as a general rule but no one had said that we should be expecting a volcanic disaster. Nothing on radio or tv, nothing from the state or Feds. However, my parents were being told on their news that the north face was bulging 6 feet a day & that it was going to blow at any moment. After the disaster it was clear that no one in our area ever heard a thing about it. The massive ash cloud hit our town about an hour & a half after the first eruption & most people were taken by surprise. I'm still outraged that vital information was withheld by Dixie Ray & the USGS. Had they put out the proper warnings & appropriate info no one would have died. Those people who lost their lives thought they were in "safe" zones but they were deceived by government. I've never trusted the government or the media since that day in 1980. They just lie about everything & don't care if innocent people die because of it.
This is important history to know. Thanks for sharing your take.
What are you talking about? I also lived in the area and it was on the news every night that the bulge was expanding and that the volcano was going to blow.
Lindy Downs, Perhaps you weren't watching the news enough. I lived in California and I was only a kid and not only was it plastered all over the news constantly, but we even studied volcanoes because of the non stop news coverage.
I lived in Massachusetts at the time and we all knew of the impending danger, your tv must have been on a different channel , Duh!
They didn't "withhold" any information. Everything that was known was out there to be seen. What isn't being said by you, or anyone else is, the eruption was so much greater than anyone had any reason to expect, based on prior information! When dealing with a situation not previously experienced, one doesn't have anything to judge against. The next time folks might know better, but then again, there will still be people who will ignore the experts, because their experts know better.
It is too easy to blame someone for an unpredictable force of nature. It is easy and it is ignorant. Any so-called "safe zones" can never be more than a guess at best.
A sad thing for the parents, but their feelings are not logical, rational or based upon fact. They’re feelings.
look they probably thought it would just spew lava not go off like the A bomb
Grief causes people to seek answers. You have to understand that this happened nearly forty years ago, back then there was no Internet, you relied on expert opinion for your information. I was 9 years old when the eruption happened and in Scotland it changed the educational curriculum to include volcanology and plate tectonics to 12 year olds. Prior to this, there were some famous eruptions that were common knowledge : Krakatoa, Vesuvius, Etna etc. But people were ignorant about what can happen during an eruption. How many people understood that the pyroclastic flow travels at 80mph? That the blast was equivalent to several nuclear bombs? That earthquakes would happen? If you read Pliny's account of the destruction of Pompeii, which is what many non scientists used as their literal reference of an eruption, you can understand why even educated non scientists, had little comprehension about what could happen. Krakatoa was a much more equivalent type of event, catastrophic explosion vs the steady eruption of Vesuvius.
These days, after St Helens and other eruptions, with the universal media and Internet, we know you'd be mad to be within ten miles of a volcano of this size and should probably be three times further away.
You need to put yourself in their shoes.
Well said, however, Pyroclastic flows travel closer to 400 miles an hour, not 80.
People, especially at that time, people in the US, didn't accept to be told what to do because they all thought they "knew better" than the specialists and lack the discipline to just do what they are told. It's ok to ask questions and demands answers, but when your life or the life of your loved one is in eminent danger, it's better to listen and ask questions later. The cemetery is full of people who "knew better" than the professional.
To think that all the governor had to do to save more lives was redraw a map is ludicrous. Decisions come with consequences. I would never go near a volcano, a tornado, a bison or a bear, etc. If I did and lost my life as a result, no one in my family would blame the government.
Hind sight is 20/20, you can not predict how a mountain will erupt even if you see the same thing again it may not produce the same result. Volcano's are unpredictable and always will be!
Spoiler Alert: they died when a volcano erupted. I was 10. Living in Yakima, Washington. I remember it like it was yesterday.
Hey I got an idea let's go camping right next to a volcano that is threatening to erupt any moment now near a bulge that keeps growing 5ft a day. Are there no other mountains in that area? You had to go to that area? If I would have known that that mountain was going to blow I would be 50 miles away from it no matter what I don't care if they establish a red zone or a Blue Zone all establish a Tom Zone and that is 50 miles away or less Tom will not be there. Even if 50 miles you're in danger
Lol Tom Zone
Only 3 people were in the red zone: 2 had permission and Harry Truman (Johnston was on the edge of the zone). And Harry received a letter from Dixy commending him for staying: "You stuck with what you knew and what common experience and sense told you. We could use a lot more of that thinking , particularly in politics." No one else 'sneaked' into a place they shouldn't have been. When you go to the places where people died like Green River or Hoffstadt Creek, you're 20+ miles away and can't even see the mountain.
If the Sheriff's zone maps had been adopted, there would've been 8 fatalities instead of 57: the three near spirit lake, the miners near Meta Lake, and the Scymanky logging party.
She really wrote him that letter? My god...
naw, I saw a documentry that included a dude who kept sneaking into the restricted zone as if it was a game, talking with cops about some guy they saw in the restricted zone - knowing it was him. laughing about how he barely escaped when she blew
They are grieving so much that they have to blame somebody for their son's death , they CAN'T ACCEPT that their son just ignore the warnings !
They will NEVER except that their son was irresponsible and ignored the warnings ! They can't be mad at their son , so they are mad at the establishment !
Blue zone red zone the volcano was VERY active and unpredictable, so just leave get away or face the reality.
I lived close by and the decision made by Dixie was all about money flowing as simply Weyerhaeuser could have moved out till things where calm .Many friends went there with a false sense of security . The natural beauty of that area was impressive and a 30 minute drive you had a vacation .I never heard of sheriff taking a person in for crossing a zone but they complained it was to close
Scientists DID ABSOLUTELY SPEAK UP.
Oh my goodness this is like. .... infuriating.
Kind of stupid sleeping next to a live Volcano, don't you think. Like sleeping on a raft in a river going down stream over a waterfall.
Ths thread is full of 'butters.' Blah balh blah butt they should have known - done - been something..something different. Sure - but why bother writing?
I don't think I would be anywhere near a volcano which about to erupt. On the other hand, if you have no knowledge of volcanos, you have no idea how far the ash can travel.
This is proof that scientists don't always know everything.
The fact is you cannot predict what the earth is going to do. No matter whether it's atmospheric or earth bound, no amount of technology could accurately predict which way the volcano would release it's pressure. There are no grounds for finger pointing.
shoulda listened 2 david johnson
David Johnston was within the sear zone himself on that morning, so . . .
@@erynlasgalen1949 David knew he was a dead man, his final words were warning "Vancouver, this is it!". He spent months trying to make people leave.
At the end of the day, everybody knew that there was a chance the mountain could blow at any time, nobody could ever foresee how the mountain would explode, each person that died there made the choice to take the risk! May they all rest in peace!
Well they should have not been up there camping right they told them it was bad
Volcano schmallcano... phbtbtbtbbtbt
So right.....
Grade A hogwash...with all due respect to the ones that died, of course. Arm chair play calling at it's worse...
Amen.
Governor Dixie Ray did as good with that terrible situation that anyone could have .
stop looking for a scapegoat! what a crock
My dearest beloved people when an evacuation is required please heed the voice of higher authorities to please evacuate nothing is more important then your beautiful lifes. I am pretty sure people were warned danger zone or no danger the adults are not children. Still please leave.
Ive seen interviews with that Robert Rogers how snuck on the mountain...seems a real asshat. He just is tickled pink with his experience....delighted...never mind all those who died or left disfigured...as long as he had fun...
I saw a interview with a scientist that worked at the Monitoring station in Vancouver
And He said that when it happened He New His colleague was most likely dead But it was a Super exciting once in a 1000 year Event
Scientists are weird they horror science over Everything else, Even they own life
Blame doesn't bring anyone back.
Many of the scientists themselves died. Also it is on video people protesting that they pay their taxes and want to be let back onto their property. So they had to sign a waiver saying they were doing so at their own risk. A lot of this is just slander or anger spoken out of pain.
Any idiot that got within 50 miles of that sucker was gambling with thier lives. Mother nature erupts with plenty of warning and victims and families go after the government. People can be pretty stubborn and get what they are looking for. They should have gotten out when they were told.
Clearly that growing bulge on the north side was dangerous! Both USGS and the criminally inaction of the governor should be held accountable!
Where does personal responsibility come in? It was pretty obvious to stay away from the damn volcano with a bulge the size of a building. Truth is nobody could have predicted what would happen, but one would think to use common sense and stay away.
Oh.. I guess Mt St Hellen's was the only land in the great state of Washington one could go camping? IE..The only choice was play around an active, posturing volcano or no play?
If you ever wondered what a frivolous lawsuit argument looks like.. I present exhibit A.
..
The real crime was that Werehaeuser did not log the blown down timber
I see allot of comments from a few years ago from people who state that common sense should have been used to simply stay away from a volcano. Here we are in July 2020 and we wonder why people don’t use common sense in regards to social distancing. Can’t fix stupid.
Because she said she pays Taxes and wants to use here land!! So lady what you going to do with it now????
People , individuals are ultimately responsible for their own well-being. Not governors ,police chiefs ,or doctors.
Why would they go camping and fishing that close to a dangerous area? There were earthquakes for a month before. The zones were uneven but common sense says stay away!
That volcano was giving plenty of warning. People chose to go into those areas. They are responsible for themselves
Nothing has changed since 1980. Profit has a priority over people. Supposed experts and politicians are far more concerned with their image than people's lives. That mayor seems oddly happy when when saying it's the victims own fault for being in an area not closed to the public.
the loss of life was so tragic but the bottom line is even with the data that they had at the time they just did not foresee the magnitude of the blast nor the reality of the lateral blast being so devastating- even though they had clues about it they hadn't had experience with a lateral blast so it was outside of their Paradigm- really you can't blame other human beings for an act of nature or an act of God- no matter how painful the situation
Why was Governor Ray responsible for this? It wasn’t her fault. There were probably numerous warning signs around the zones. If people choose not to read them and proceed closer to the volcano, that’s their fault. I believe in free will.
I lived in the Portland / Vancouver area for 15-years and I know that the forests, lakes and rivers around Mt. St. Helens are (were) the only forests, lakes and rivers in the entire Pacific Northwest and in the Portland metro area, so, what were these independent citizens expected to do? If you wanted to do nature in 1980 Washington, Mt. St. Helens was your only option. Naturally, their only option was to go to the perimeter around an active volcano with an impending eruption forcasted. Come on people... it's not their fault. If you wanted to go hiking, fishing and camping in 1980 Washington State, Mt. St. Helens was the only ecosystem in the entire Washington / Oregon area which provided this option. Nowhere else in the Washington / Oregon area had forests, lakes and hiking trails. It's elementary... Mt. St. Helens was the only option in 1980 to do these activities... they had no choice but to be in the perimeter of an impending eruption.
The thousands of acres of Gifford National Park and the entire range of the Cascades Mountains stretching from Northern California into Canada offers outdoor options in the Pacific Northwest.
Oh my gosh, you can go camping, fishing, and hiking on Mt Hood, near the Portland metro area, as you call it 🙄 Outdoor enthusiasts could have gone there; if they had to put in some extra driving, so what?
Satire?
Is this a joke?
People are responsible for for their own lives. If a bulge was growing, screw it! I would leave.
Show me one time where a prominent government official actually paid for their actions.
That’s some BS, they warned everyone and they did what they wanted to anyway, the Governor has zero culpability, u all own ur own deaths
I remember going to school hearing that we Canadians might get some of the ashes flown from the states we all were so sad when it happened ...
Don't blame her. From March 20th until the day of the eruption, it had intense coverage from the media. Those people who died, God rest their souls, chose to stay. No one put a gun to their head and said they had to stay. The USGS and the National Guard tried their best to keep people away. Anyplace u live has its own geological hazards. Whether it's this, hurricanes, tornadoes, blizzards, heatwave, tsunami's. Educate yourselves and try and have a contingency plan. Knowledge is power!
Exactly. Thank you.
It seems to be common sense that ANYWHERE near the volcano is TOO CLOSE. People should have a sense that anywhere near a volcano is dangerous. Very sad that anyone died.
You can't blame people .this would killed anyone or anything in its way zones or no zones .they should used there own minds see it was bloody bad
Garrielee Peck It is likely Mt. Rainier would erupt similarly. USGS stated that at any given time Mt. Rainier has 10 times as much ice/water on it than Mt St. Helens that would melt into a lahar. Be forewarned.
This is what will happen at Yellowstone. They see the increase in earthquakes and volcanic activity and still they don't say a thing. Instead they disconnect the live feed so we won't know what is going on. There is a reason the Bison got the heck out of Yellowstone.
are all of the live feeds still off??
The live feeds are all working just fine. The live stream at Old Faithful was damaged by a lightning strike and took a couple of months to repair because it was a donated camera. The cables and electronic gear was also damaged and had to be replaced. It was not a conspiracy and it was not intentional. I live near the park and I am up there often in the open season. I also have gone on the snowmobile tour from West Yellowstone.
Aztec Girl Yellowstone will be the eruption of all eruptions.
Living just outside of Alpine, Wy.
I can tell you the Bison left ??? Uhh tell me where? There still akk over the park..Do you need pictures, or are you an expert of all things Yellowstone. LOL
Ken Hudson: Waiting until you see it on the news will be too late think :) Yellowstone is overdue, but I think the chances if us seeing it blow in our lifetimes is fairly low because it's frequency is something like 700k years (I think).
Unfortunately (meant ironically) there isnt really anyone to blame. Volcanos are almost impossible to predict still today, and people made their own decisions. It is not on authorities to block off people from their homes. It's down to folks to do what they need to, if it costs their lives then it's on them.
rip all the victims that died in the mt. saint helens eruption
I feel bad for the people that lost loved ones, but I do not agree with them. How big a volcano eruption will be cannot be predicted. Still when the red zone was placed, people went in there illegally. So be angry all you want, but their deaths are on them. I would NEVER go near a volcano which is actively erupting. About the Governor expressing herself, maybe she chose the wrong words and maybe too harshly. She is correct.
the victims are responsible for their own deaths. the warnings were out but certain people wouldn't listen. blaming the govt is stupid lol...plain ol self common sense would of saved those people
They say at the beginning that 60 people died but all other sources I've heard say there were only 57 deaths. Did they "round off" to 60. They were being specific in that quote: "26 of the 60 people who died have never been found."
I go to the beach and the lifeguards tell me there's a shark swimming around. I am going to listen and stay out of the water.
If you know a mountain is about to possibly blow, and your hanging out within 15 miles of it. It’s your own damn fault
Exactly.
If I ignored Gov. warnings which was aired on T.V. and got injured from volcano. I would think...'Why did I not listen? Look what I did, I should of listened.' Then, I would love the people who warned me.😔