How to Understand the Book of Revelation | Jonathan Pageau (Campfire Podcast)
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- Опубліковано 12 вер 2024
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Are many of the churches in the West, Christianity for beginners? Why aren't services more than an adult version of the kids service. This channel has taught me more about God than I had learned in a lifetime of going to church. Thanks for reintroducing me to God, apparently he was missing me.
thank you, I was thinking it was me-"why don't I know anything more than as a child" I am sooo excited by the people I have found on UA-cam sharing their great minds such as Pageau and Peterson.
Puritanism has that effect. In islam Puritanism resulted in similar weirdness but it took over the earlier existing part of their schism, which is bizarre to me, but I’ve often thought Shia ended up looking more like the orthodox Catholic side of the Christianity divide, and Sunnis turned into Protestants.
On this channel, this guy (campfire) is my favorite guest. He asks questions that tease out of Pagaeu some very cool symbolic interpretations. Also, I'm lazy and a bit cowardly. Being on-line creates a certain exposure and psychic risk, so I'm grateful these guys dialog on-line. I'm not the only one, from a Western materialist mindset, who finds Revelation a bit baffling. Thanks for taking this on guys, but I'm still baffled by the higher level symbology of Revelation. I'll keep watching :)
The Hebrew letter Vav can be used to reverse the past/future tense of a verb by putting it in front. The Vav is also the sixth letter and connects heaven and earth as a vertical axis, and refers to masculinity. Interesting how the sixth angel would blow his trumped and invert the mountains and seas. Whereas the seventh angels would connect the end with the beginning by standing on both as a transitional phase. Like the Hebrew letter Zayin, which is the seventh letter, is feminine and refers to the sabbath, which is a transitional feast. Zayin is also said to be a Vav with a crown on its head, so space crowned by time. But anyway, I'm a complete Hebrew noob, so I'm just rambling here.
Wow that was epic friend. Just the shape of the letter tell a story. "In the beginning.." The first Hebrew letter expresses the Creation .. almost like we are being spilled from an opened box .. a one-way invitation into the text itself. (Most profound thing in English I've found so far is : bed
Semi-related: you should have Fr. Stephen de Young on the show. That would be a great conversation.
ua-cam.com/video/NW_WlIurGtA/v-deo.html
The hard part about revelation is feeling motivated to even try to come to any understanding of it. Once you accept that there’s an endgame and Jesus is going to come back and judge the world, then you don’t necessarily care how it unfolds in the specifics. But then the fact that revelation exists kind of challenges that notion because it exists and made it into the canon. So then you’ve got to cope with the implication that we are supposed to be doing something with it in our faith. It’s the book I worry I’m not giving enough attention to and just making the excuse that I have such strong faith that I’m immune to needing it. The odds that there’s some of the scriptures that I’m so holy they don’t apply to me are not that high, frankly. More realistically I’m avoiding it because I’m too ignorant to make heads nor tails of it. And I’m just hoping it won’t matter, which sounds a little dangerous when I admit it to myself. Hearing Pageau admit he avoids it too only adds to my foreboding.
Friend, if you are not interested in it, you are not interested in it (I use "interested" as a relative term. I know you're interested as a Christian, but I mean interested enough to put in the time and effort and tears and angst to "study" it,) The imagery of God's wrath is as if you added all the OT wrath imagery together and doubled it. Yikes! We have varied proclivities thanks to God. How boring it would be if we were all the same! Reading it is all you really need to do. TRUST it will do the work in you, as God intended! Have faith that God will reveal to you what He wishes you to know. Just remember: GOD WINS. *Glory be to God*
Good to mention too that the early Christians celebrated mass on the tombs of the Martyrs in the Roman catacombs. As far as I know, placing relics in altars is a remembrance of that, though the practice itself could be and probably is related to the Revelation scene.
“Expanding on earth and water becomes akin to connecting heaven and earth.” This jives with/is interesting to me that so many people see the beach as a paradise in the modern world.
I think this way naturally. But people accuse me of insanity.
Im not denying anything Johnathan says, but there is also definitely a connection of Revelation to sacred geometry. Ive never seem Johnathan talk about sacred geometry.
There is a most definitely a connection of sacred geometry to time cycles through which earth experiences catastrophes. The new Jerusalem descending fron heaven can be thought of a new earth born from the destruction of the old through cosmic catastrophes. It reminds of lyrics from Red Hot Chili Peppers. "Destruction leads to a very rough road but it also breeds creation."
Mt Athos - where a mountain and the water meet.
This is really cool
Nailed it 🔨
Protestants miss all this beautiful symbolism and the rich layers of Revelation. They don't see mythic structures and deeper patterns of reality but rather think this is what the Last Day will literally look like just like how they think the earth is less than 10K years old.
The earth is less than 10k years old and I'm Orthodox. YEC is taught by the Holy Fathers.
Swami Kriyananda explained that revelations is a symbolic explanation of what happens when a person goes through a spiritual awakening. These things can only be understood by a person that is highly spiritually evolved. The 7 candlesticks for example are meant to represent the 7 chackras within the body. All religion is meant to show us how to transcend the delusion that we are a mortal being made of flesh, and to help us realize that we are in fact the imortal soul, part and parcell of God.
No. That is just a very weak attempt to create a hybrid religion. The symbolism of Revelation is explained in the Bible.
@@josephpack7315 even if you're right, which I don't think you are, what's wrong with a hybrid religion? Religion is meant to point us to unity. All religion derives from one truth. And this truth is not to be understood by the intellect, but through intuitive perception. Sitting in church and rehashing something, the deep meaning of which is neither understood nor practiced by those who are there, is the weak attempt at practicing what ALL saints - not just Jesus - taught throught the ages. God is meant to be realized within one's own consciousness and the teaching are meant to point you in that direction. By misunderstanding this key point and intellectually disecting esoteric truths rather that realizing them for yourself gets you nowhere and misses the entire point of your human birth.
@@Recoveryplus God revealed to us that His truth is THE ONLY truth. So why don’t you try and figure out why I would have a problem with what you’re saying. Imagine I came to you and said “hey, your entire religion....yeah you got it wrong. But dont worry. I will teach you.”
@@josephpack7315 that would not be something I'd appreciate, however that isn't what I've said in my comments
@@Recoveryplus that’s literally what you did. You try to tell is our understanding of our own religious symbolism isnt what we say it is.
hmm if you read revelations more carefully the lamb stands on a throne not an alter.
Where would you put a slain lamb in the biblical context?
depending on what part of the ritual it is, the lamb could be in many different places.
but lets not forget the lamb in revelation was slain and yet is alive, thus he is no longer on the alter.
rev 5:6
Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, STANDING AT THE CENTER OF THE THRONE, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders.
so in the book of revelations the lamb is on the throne rather then on the alter.
@@zekidan8284 my friend, you are struggling to understand symbolism on the most basic level. wish you all the best and I recommend watching many more Pageau videos. God Bless
@@matthewkirkley6171 dude all I said was in the book of revelations the lamb is actually on the throne not the alter.
a small correction, I still understand his main points, and agree with many of them. thank you for your concern.
however I do wonder how he would interpret the symbolism if he is imagining the lamb on the throne rather then the alter. perhaps that would bring new insights.
The Book of Revelation uses a lot of the Israeli cultural symbolism in Jesus' times. The Earth symbolizes their nation/race/people of Israel. The sea symbolized the Gentiles. Heaven signifies the Jewish religion as a whole. So, the Earth and the sea in the Book of Revelation are the Israelites and Gentiles.
Take the verse 21:1-
Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,” for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.
This refers to the Jewish faith giving way to Christianity, and the end of the divide between Israelites and Gentiles. All are united under Jesus Christ, hence "no longer any sea".
First principals christianity!
What?
I don’t understand what you’re even talking about in this video on Revelation. 🙃 🃏 😉
Watch it again 😎
He's mentioned its very difficult to break down just because how much symbolism goes on. You need to make sure your foundation of knowledge on symbolism is large before really knowing a lot of what there is to know about Revelation. Its a life long journey to know the bible. No need to rush it :)
It's a joke... Jonathan is set to release other videos on the Book of Revelation and expressed concern on social media that people might not understand him
@@ChristianHada I've read that the eastern church had great reservations about even including the Revelation into biblical canon for fear that most people would mostly get confused and disturbed by it, that it's meanings would go completely over their heads and result in a plethora of wild and completely off-base conclusions and interpretations. Frankly, I can't say that I disagree. Not that I don't think it holds any value, but I've gotten to the point where the only thing I'm willing to conclude definitively about the future is what is explicitly stated about Christ's return in the creed. As someone who grew up in an environment that very much clung to exclusively a futurist and overly literalist/materialist interpretation of its events (and I've heard dozens of interpretations of those events from that perspective) and have mostly rejected or at least become highly skeptical and critical of these theories, I've kinda just thrown up my hands and accepted that I have no idea what's going on and won't pretend otherwise.
??? the Saints under the alter is a vision that they are resting safe ...because who can approach His alter?...the Ark of the Covenant is God's presence about to approach the Jerusalem once again...