I couldn't justify the price of the 10 degree ultralight bed (even with the 25% off labor day sale), so I went with the 10-degree Light bed. I calculated it to be at most 8 oz. heavier and $200 cheaper. I'm not an ultralighter, and I'm still doing better than my current sleeping bag, and while it's heavier than the EE quilt I originally wanted and the western mountaineering bags I so desperately covet, but can't afford, I think it'll work and alleviate my hesitations going the quilt route. I'm still using the sleeping pads and pillows I already own. Hoping it arrives before next weekend.
One of the things I appreciate about Zenbivy is that they don't just cater to a single type of customer. Glad you found something that checks all your boxes!
I can't make the numbers work on the 25-degree quilts. For 25-degree, size Large, the weights and prices are: UL: 1lb 3oz, $449 Light: 1lb 7oz, $279* Core: 1lb 12oz, $199 Going from Core to UL saves 9oz for $250 at $444/lb to save weight. Half a pound is significant, but it more than doubles the price of the quilt. Going from Core to Light saves 5oz for $80 at $256/lb, (*if one opts for the Convertable footbox, it saves 3oz for $100 at $533/lb.) Going from Light to UL saves 4oz for $170 at $680/lb. I just don't see the point. Saving 3-5 oz on a quilt for hundreds of dollars? I'd love to own one of these. The system looks amazingly comfortable. I just can't figure out the cost-benefit relationship of the core-light-UL structure. (Most of the weight savings on the sheets is simply due to cutting it in half. I'd pay the weight penalty for the old style Light or the current Core to get a full length sheet.)
I think Zenbivy was basically saying Fine, here's ultralight! Haha. I also loke the full sheets and lower prices, but I am not a TRUE ultralightee so.... :)
I think one other factor to consider is that the UL has 900 fill which compresses better and for some can make a great difference in comfort. I am not a zenbivy owner or fan, so not trying to sell anyone on anything, just pointing out some other differences I noticed when comparing because I was confused about the price jump for the measly weight saving as well. I don't have that kind of money to spend on a quilt either way, so I'm in the same boat as you, might even try to grab the full sheet and alter my current budget quilt to work with it for now.
@@cocoblue012 Never underestimate the ounce-counter's willingness to spend significant money to shave half an ounce. I think the Light bed is the best deal. Even better when you can get it on sale. 🙂
Awesome review! I am really curious about making my nemo fillo work with this system- the clips are really a plus for me so well done, Zenbivy! Nemo’s website lists the size of the fillo as 17x11x4. The Zenbivy large pillowcase is listed as 18x11x5.. Do you have any way to check this out?
Yup, the Fillo is basically an jnch shorter all around and not as puffy. However even though the clips are nice the hood part of the sheet keeps things where they belong, I haven't even really used them.
Great infomercial. Looks like the best sleeping insulation for ground sleeping. I am primarily a hammock camper, so a top quilt & underquilt is the best insulation system for me. In a hammock, The underquilt curves around my backside, so I never get drafts even with a regular width top quilt or when side sleeping. Also, I wonder if the temperature ratings for the Zen Bivvy are conservative
From what I understand, quilts were originally meant for hammocks and then backpackers discovered how light they are and adapted them for tent use. Zenbivy has done the best quilt mods with their sheet. The R-values are said to be "EN/ISO-matched performance" and "are tested internally to the ASTM F3340-18 standard." (zenbivy.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/21576841361431-How-are-Zenbivy-mattresses-rated). They claim an R-vlaue of 5 for all their pads, but also say that it's really 4.8 - I am not sure why they do that.
@@BackcountryPilgrim Thanks! It looks like the mattress ratings are legit! Do you find the Zen Bivy quilt temperature ratings to be appropriate for most people?
That's a tough call because people's bodies are so different. I've seen one commenter say he's waiting for a *colder* rated quilt haha. Also, the actual warmth of a quilt is also dependent on the sleep pad, drafts, tent temp, so it's just one part of the equation. But I'd say they are accurate because it's a pretty standard measurement.
@@BackcountryPilgrim True. The best way to find that out may be to compare its loft height and its weight of down fill to that of competitors' quilts (with equivalent down fill power, quilt length and width, and temperature rating)
Signed up for their email notification when the UL version debuts. Will make a decision then. In my case, lightness overall is more important than what it costs.
Yeah when you get to this level of quality / weight cost is gonna go up, but that's the historic Backpacking Gear Rule of Three: Quality, Weight, Cost (pick two!). :)
Great video! Very thorough and informative. I know this is more of a personal basis question, but if I was only going to buy one zenbivy UL bed, do you think the 10 degree would work well as an all season bag? Or would it possibly be too warm in the summer months? I was thinking the modularity of it could vent heat in the summer and I'd rather have to purchase only one of these and 10 degrees seems more versatile.
That's a hard one because different locations and body types produce heat very differently. I'd say for the average person in average temps a 10d is pretty dang warm. When it gets warmer you can only get so much temp regulation with venting (too cold/too hot/too cold/ repeat LOL!). It's also easier to add warmth to a system than it is to cool it off. Like a 25d system can go to 10 or even 0 by adding a liner. The good news is that this is more modular and so more adaptable, but then you have added cost, weight, and less comfort. Tough call!
Just received my 10 degree large ultralight. I'm not pleased that it is one horizontal baffle and 4-5 inches shorter than the light bed of what is supposed to be the same dimensions. Something to be aware of.
Nope. Dimensions on the website are incorrect. Turns out they cut approximately 6 inches from the fast foot box quilts to make them comparable in length with the convertible quilt once that footbox is closed. I wonder how much of the weight savings comes from them shaving 6 inches off the quilt compared to the 2023 model.
Zenbivy updated the specs on their site after I noted they still reflected the size of the 2023 fast footbox quilts. The Large is now accurately listed as 80 inches long instead of 86.
@@thisguy7201 I don’t remember. It was years ago. As far as I know, it’s still competitively priced for the quality. They use premium down and overstuff. Gary is the owners name. This is my favorite piece of gear because it’s still like new and it’s been around. The key is hand washing with Woolite soap, thoroughly hand rinsing, and drying at low temperature with a pair of clean tennis shoes. 👟
Good catch! :) The spreadsheet was my personal gear comparison, not the full line (although that would be handy!). I was comparing what I got for full comfort vs. what I got for lightest weight (including the shorter pad).
Watch for Zenbivy to update the dimensions of their 2024 fast foot box models. They shaved 6 inches off them as compared to their 2023 model. Dimension of 86 inch length is incorrect and very misleading.
I've found that the problem I mostly get is that I sleep with my hands and arms above my head when on my stomach. So if I use a quilt I often need to sleep with down jacket and gloves or use a bigger sleeping bag. I might just get the top sheet if it fits my current sleeping pad. I mostly generate drafts by moving my upper body around so I don't even think I need to attach my quilt to the sheet.
Hi 👋 thank you for this video ... can I use the zen ivy system with my current sleeping pad ? 25x72 insulated air core ultra from big Agnes or do I have to buy the zenbivy sleeping pad too ?
The ""Less is more" principle doesn't apply to a sleep system like this... I have never slept in any of the zen bivy beds so can't comment on their co.fort, warmth, etc.. that being said I'm not sure from this review the zen bivy UL bed system has advantages no other UL sleep system provides... for true UL trips in warmer weather where weight is the top priority I couldn't justify taking the Zen bivy system even in the UL configuration given its weight and cost.. other systems offer a much better weight to cost ratio..then again if comfort was the top priority and cost wasn't a concern then this system may be the "best"...remains to be seen if it competes in the "UL" backpacking market...
It's definitely a comfort-driven system and not weight or cost. (This comes out more in my earlier Zenbivy video which I referenced at the beginning of this one.) I think the importance of the UL bed is that it answers to the weight consideration (even if it does not dominate the available gear market). Cost can be mitigated by going with the more budget-friendly options which - like all brands - will mean loss of warmth or gain in weight. Given that weight / cost is what seems to drive the industry, I am glad to see one company focusing on maximising comfort (and not doing too bad on the other factors either!).
Well, you're sort of mixing metaphors, as it were. I'll say this, while the true magic of the system comes down to the sheet/quilt interface which eliminates drafts, if warm, you could easily just avoid the sheet, or use an uninsulated light sheet and go with a warmer quilt. You're right back to ultra-small pack and low weight. I own two Enlightened Equipment Revelation quilts, stuffed with 950fp down, and I own a 10° Light Quilt and 10° Light Sheet. The configuration of the Zenbivy is just better, and now that the UL versions have come out, even if it were a tiny bit heavier, the sleep I get in a Zenbivy is, without doubt, unequivocally, better. The materials feel better, the system is much nicer to sleep under, and the build quality is just top-notch. Oh, and customer service is excellent as well.
Good Video! I am glad you compared it with your current system but it still too expensive. As a savvy consumer I see the price difference between them is money towards another piece a gear or upgrade I can get. Plus Zenbivy 10 degree is really a 20 degree quilt as that's the comfort rating and the one that matter most to me. Limit rating is BS, companies should do away with it!
Great review! Zenbivy are genius, I can't stress enough how revolutionairy this system is - the industry should fear the new UL pad in particular, super comfortable for the weight, its unreal, I was waiting for someone to use deep dimple system like the REI Helix but cut the weight down. Personally I plan to mix the new UL quilt with the full sheet, since I like the full sheet ability to hold tention fantastically - Which helps me put my arms into the head area and it doesn't pull the sheet up, like it would with the UL sheet. This may only be relevent to me since i'm a stomach sleeper.
AGREED! Yeah I don't know if I'll make the switch to the UL sheet. Especially in warmer months when I sleep in shorts the weight savings isn't worth the loss of comfort. :)
I couldn't justify the price of the 10 degree ultralight bed (even with the 25% off labor day sale), so I went with the 10-degree Light bed. I calculated it to be at most 8 oz. heavier and $200 cheaper. I'm not an ultralighter, and I'm still doing better than my current sleeping bag, and while it's heavier than the EE quilt I originally wanted and the western mountaineering bags I so desperately covet, but can't afford, I think it'll work and alleviate my hesitations going the quilt route. I'm still using the sleeping pads and pillows I already own. Hoping it arrives before next weekend.
One of the things I appreciate about Zenbivy is that they don't just cater to a single type of customer. Glad you found something that checks all your boxes!
I can't make the numbers work on the 25-degree quilts. For 25-degree, size Large, the weights and prices are:
UL: 1lb 3oz, $449
Light: 1lb 7oz, $279*
Core: 1lb 12oz, $199
Going from Core to UL saves 9oz for $250 at $444/lb to save weight. Half a pound is significant, but it more than doubles the price of the quilt.
Going from Core to Light saves 5oz for $80 at $256/lb, (*if one opts for the Convertable footbox, it saves 3oz for $100 at $533/lb.)
Going from Light to UL saves 4oz for $170 at $680/lb.
I just don't see the point. Saving 3-5 oz on a quilt for hundreds of dollars? I'd love to own one of these. The system looks amazingly comfortable. I just can't figure out the cost-benefit relationship of the core-light-UL structure.
(Most of the weight savings on the sheets is simply due to cutting it in half. I'd pay the weight penalty for the old style Light or the current Core to get a full length sheet.)
I think Zenbivy was basically saying Fine, here's ultralight! Haha. I also loke the full sheets and lower prices, but I am not a TRUE ultralightee so.... :)
I think one other factor to consider is that the UL has 900 fill which compresses better and for some can make a great difference in comfort. I am not a zenbivy owner or fan, so not trying to sell anyone on anything, just pointing out some other differences I noticed when comparing because I was confused about the price jump for the measly weight saving as well. I don't have that kind of money to spend on a quilt either way, so I'm in the same boat as you, might even try to grab the full sheet and alter my current budget quilt to work with it for now.
@@cocoblue012 Never underestimate the ounce-counter's willingness to spend significant money to shave half an ounce. I think the Light bed is the best deal. Even better when you can get it on sale. 🙂
Awesome review! I am really curious about making my nemo fillo work with this system- the clips are really a plus for me so well done, Zenbivy! Nemo’s website lists the size of the fillo as 17x11x4. The Zenbivy large pillowcase is listed as 18x11x5.. Do you have any way to check this out?
Yup, the Fillo is basically an jnch shorter all around and not as puffy. However even though the clips are nice the hood part of the sheet keeps things where they belong, I haven't even really used them.
Great infomercial. Looks like the best sleeping insulation for ground sleeping. I am primarily a hammock camper, so a top quilt & underquilt is the best insulation system for me. In a hammock, The underquilt curves around my backside, so I never get drafts even with a regular width top quilt or when side sleeping.
Also, I wonder if the temperature ratings for the Zen Bivvy are conservative
From what I understand, quilts were originally meant for hammocks and then backpackers discovered how light they are and adapted them for tent use. Zenbivy has done the best quilt mods with their sheet. The R-values are said to be "EN/ISO-matched performance" and "are tested internally to the ASTM F3340-18 standard." (zenbivy.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/21576841361431-How-are-Zenbivy-mattresses-rated). They claim an R-vlaue of 5 for all their pads, but also say that it's really 4.8 - I am not sure why they do that.
@@BackcountryPilgrim Thanks! It looks like the mattress ratings are legit! Do you find the Zen Bivy quilt temperature ratings to be appropriate for most people?
That's a tough call because people's bodies are so different. I've seen one commenter say he's waiting for a *colder* rated quilt haha. Also, the actual warmth of a quilt is also dependent on the sleep pad, drafts, tent temp, so it's just one part of the equation. But I'd say they are accurate because it's a pretty standard measurement.
@@BackcountryPilgrim True. The best way to find that out may be to compare its loft height and its weight of down fill to that of competitors' quilts (with equivalent down fill power, quilt length and width, and temperature rating)
Signed up for their email notification when the UL version debuts. Will make a decision then. In my case, lightness overall is more important than what it costs.
Yeah when you get to this level of quality / weight cost is gonna go up, but that's the historic Backpacking Gear Rule of Three: Quality, Weight, Cost (pick two!). :)
Great video! Very thorough and informative. I know this is more of a personal basis question, but if I was only going to buy one zenbivy UL bed, do you think the 10 degree would work well as an all season bag? Or would it possibly be too warm in the summer months? I was thinking the modularity of it could vent heat in the summer and I'd rather have to purchase only one of these and 10 degrees seems more versatile.
That's a hard one because different locations and body types produce heat very differently. I'd say for the average person in average temps a 10d is pretty dang warm. When it gets warmer you can only get so much temp regulation with venting (too cold/too hot/too cold/ repeat LOL!). It's also easier to add warmth to a system than it is to cool it off. Like a 25d system can go to 10 or even 0 by adding a liner. The good news is that this is more modular and so more adaptable, but then you have added cost, weight, and less comfort. Tough call!
Just received my 10 degree large ultralight. I'm not pleased that it is one horizontal baffle and 4-5 inches shorter than the light bed of what is supposed to be the same dimensions. Something to be aware of.
I would contact ZenBivy and ask about that - it should match the dimensions on the website. Michael's a good guy - he'll do the right thing.
Nope. Dimensions on the website are incorrect. Turns out they cut approximately 6 inches from the fast foot box quilts to make them comparable in length with the convertible quilt once that footbox is closed. I wonder how much of the weight savings comes from them shaving 6 inches off the quilt compared to the 2023 model.
Zenbivy updated the specs on their site after I noted they still reflected the size of the 2023 fast footbox quilts. The Large is now accurately listed as 80 inches long instead of 86.
Just too much. I don’t need a ‘sleep system’. I’ve got a custom Gryphon Gear Aries 30 quilt. I’m good.❤
Sounds great!
How much did it cost?
@@thisguy7201 I don’t remember. It was years ago. As far as I know, it’s still competitively priced for the quality. They use premium down and overstuff. Gary is the owners name. This is my favorite piece of gear because it’s still like new and it’s been around. The key is hand washing with Woolite soap, thoroughly hand rinsing, and drying at low temperature with a pair of clean tennis shoes. 👟
Would love to see your excel spreadsheet with all the price/weight comparisons.
Email me at backcountrypilgrim@gmail.com
I was looking forward to the nice spreadsheet section you do but why did you compare the cost and weight of the 77” light bed vs the 72” UL system?
Good catch! :) The spreadsheet was my personal gear comparison, not the full line (although that would be handy!). I was comparing what I got for full comfort vs. what I got for lightest weight (including the shorter pad).
Watch for Zenbivy to update the dimensions of their 2024 fast foot box models. They shaved 6 inches off them as compared to their 2023 model. Dimension of 86 inch length is incorrect and very misleading.
Getting this as soon I am able to order the full package with the currently out-of-stock Flex Air Mattress 🙏
I think you'll love it!
I've found that the problem I mostly get is that I sleep with my hands and arms above my head when on my stomach. So if I use a quilt I often need to sleep with down jacket and gloves or use a bigger sleeping bag. I might just get the top sheet if it fits my current sleeping pad. I mostly generate drafts by moving my upper body around so I don't even think I need to attach my quilt to the sheet.
Great idea. The "headboard" makes you feel like you have your own room haha. They do come in standard 20" and 25" widths, shouldn't be a problem!
Hi 👋 thank you for this video ... can I use the zen ivy system with my current sleeping pad ? 25x72 insulated air core ultra from big Agnes or do I have to buy the zenbivy sleeping pad too ?
It should work fine with any same-width pad! The sheet just slips over it, no special connections. :)
@@BackcountryPilgrim thank you so much !!! Have great day/evening ...
The ""Less is more" principle doesn't apply to a sleep system like this... I have never slept in any of the zen bivy beds so can't comment on their co.fort, warmth, etc.. that being said I'm not sure from this review the zen bivy UL bed system has advantages no other UL sleep system provides... for true UL trips in warmer weather where weight is the top priority I couldn't justify taking the Zen bivy system even in the UL configuration given its weight and cost.. other systems offer a much better weight to cost ratio..then again if comfort was the top priority and cost wasn't a concern then this system may be the "best"...remains to be seen if it competes in the "UL" backpacking market...
It's definitely a comfort-driven system and not weight or cost. (This comes out more in my earlier Zenbivy video which I referenced at the beginning of this one.) I think the importance of the UL bed is that it answers to the weight consideration (even if it does not dominate the available gear market). Cost can be mitigated by going with the more budget-friendly options which - like all brands - will mean loss of warmth or gain in weight. Given that weight / cost is what seems to drive the industry, I am glad to see one company focusing on maximising comfort (and not doing too bad on the other factors either!).
Well, you're sort of mixing metaphors, as it were. I'll say this, while the true magic of the system comes down to the sheet/quilt interface which eliminates drafts, if warm, you could easily just avoid the sheet, or use an uninsulated light sheet and go with a warmer quilt. You're right back to ultra-small pack and low weight. I own two Enlightened Equipment Revelation quilts, stuffed with 950fp down, and I own a 10° Light Quilt and 10° Light Sheet. The configuration of the Zenbivy is just better, and now that the UL versions have come out, even if it were a tiny bit heavier, the sleep I get in a Zenbivy is, without doubt, unequivocally, better. The materials feel better, the system is much nicer to sleep under, and the build quality is just top-notch. Oh, and customer service is excellent as well.
Good Video! I am glad you compared it with your current system but it still too expensive. As a savvy consumer I see the price difference between them is money towards another piece a gear or upgrade I can get. Plus Zenbivy 10 degree is really a 20 degree quilt as that's the comfort rating and the one that matter most to me. Limit rating is BS, companies should do away with it!
Thanks for sharing!
Absolutely brilliant upload man, so nicely and professionally executed! 👏👏
I appreciate the comment thanks!
Great review! Zenbivy are genius, I can't stress enough how revolutionairy this system is - the industry should fear the new UL pad in particular, super comfortable for the weight, its unreal, I was waiting for someone to use deep dimple system like the REI Helix but cut the weight down. Personally I plan to mix the new UL quilt with the full sheet, since I like the full sheet ability to hold tention fantastically - Which helps me put my arms into the head area and it doesn't pull the sheet up, like it would with the UL sheet. This may only be relevent to me since i'm a stomach sleeper.
AGREED! Yeah I don't know if I'll make the switch to the UL sheet. Especially in warmer months when I sleep in shorts the weight savings isn't worth the loss of comfort. :)