Get Your Copy of My Strategy Blueprints For FREE: 1) The Options Income Blueprint: optionswithdavis.com/blueprint/ 2) The Credit Spreads Blueprint: optionswithdavis.com/cs-blueprint/
Davis, I went back to my notes from your earlier videos, and you had guidance that the net credit you want to receive from a Bull Put Spread is from 30-40% of the width, so for a $5-wide that would be $1.50-$2.00. I looked at a 46 DTE SPY Bull Put Spread the other day, and for the short strike right at the .25 delta and 5-wide, the net credit was only 77 cents. Is that too low? Or is this strategy here a simpler variant that is okay to have a credit of less than the "usual" guidance?
On a five wide, your cost would be 500-77=423. Your profit would be 77 divided by 423=18%. Assuming you only held the position for about 21 days instead of 45, in theory your percentage profit would be about 9%. For 3 weeks time, that would amount to somewhere in the 150% per year ballpark. That's definitely worth it. jmo
Stocks is not only about anticipating moves based off trends but anticipating through participating behind real top performers and attain how they execute perfectly. coach Frost hilda take good care of my holdings giving me an edge to successful interest.
l've been getting suggestions to use a proper enlightened top tier, similar to your viewpoint. I’m trying to figure out your selected holdings at the moment.
I've had majority of my holdings in ETFs, tech stocks and I've had 65% increase in my portfolio, especially with Nvidia, AMD P/E (price to earnings ratio) adding few others, Feel free to imitate my steps with a top performer.
Always great material Davis. Your teaching style is clear and concise without the complication found on many other channels. I hope your channel flourishes, you deserve it!!
Ive saw most of the videos that you made. Thank you so much for the educational videos. I have one question. How often do I have to make the trade? you showed on the video of graph, but I don't know it is daily trade or trade after closing. It will be appreciated if you answer this. Thanks!
Great stuff Davis, thanks for this. Great content. Nobody talks about 'risk of ruin' when trading. It's all about probabilities, money management and risk management.....lovely 😉
Hi Davis, great video I'm new to your channel and this strategy. with the 45 DTE is there a minimum DTE you would enter say 39 DTE and a maximum say 55 DTE? Thanks
Hi Davies, have been following you and your content for almost 9 mths. Great info. Just a suggestion for making a living. May be good to illustrate base on 45 DTE, how can 1 make a living, ie. based on mthly expenses of USD$5000? Assuming closing at 21 DTE. with 1 contract of SPY, at 20 delta shd be ard USD$150 max? I recall that u dont recommend selling more contract to match the risk level 1 will willing to take, but rather increasing the "width" of the credit spread. How then does 1 achieve 5k a mth to trade for a living?
At some point you would have to trade more contracts. The percentage return is the same, but you are putting more $ up front to generate more $ at the end. Example, if 1 contract makes you $100, then 2 make $200, 10 make $1000, etc. Just depends on what your $ risk tolerance is and how large your account already is. Hope this helps.
Hi Davis, in either setup, would you close the position prior to 21 DTE if it hits 50% profit? Both of these are slightly different from what you had shown in the past with respect to position management, ie close at 50% profit, at 21 DTE, see if short strike is breached, etc.
Davis, for the 45 DTE trades for ETFs, is there any particular day of the week that is more favorable than other for your entries? Do you favor entering in the mornings or afternoons, or does it even matter for that long an expiration?
Thx for the very informative video Davis. Have to admit, I'm a pretty successful part-time (of course) LEAP options trader, but for the life of me, I have not been able to wrap my head around the "spreads"--in ANY regard. Regrettably the concept eludes me...not sure why. I watch various videos from various creators hoping to understand it from different perspectives but it has not yet stuck. Your video got me closer to the "ah-ha" moment. Thank you.
Great video! Quick question: would it make sense to set a profit taker at 50% of the original premium right at the time of original transaction? For example, if I sold at $1.60, should I aim to buy back at $0.80? Wondering if this approach aligns with managing risk and optimizing profits. Thanks!
Thank you for another great video! I don’t qualify yet for tier 2 credit spreads at Fidelity only tier 1. Hence I will only be selling CSP’s. My question is 1) do you still think it is a good conservative strategy to buy a protective put with say 10% of the premium, 2) Is 45 DTE still the best time frame in that case or could you go shorter like weekly to earn more premium?
Hi Davis, is it advisable to choose a long DTE say 1000 days, and close it say in 7 days once it is is in a profit zone? Reason for chooing higher DTE is so that the premium earn is higher.
A put credit spread strategy requires sell a put option AND buy a put option at a lower strike price with the same expiration date. The strategy you mentioned is just writing a put option isn't it? I just want to make sure I got your strategy correct as you didn't cover buying a put option in this video. Thanks
Davies, how do I scale up? I am only trading SPY. I have 300K and want to risk 3% per trade. So roughly 9 contracts. Do I open one 9 contracts trade only, until I close it out at 21 DTE or can I open multiple 9 contracts trade? If it’s the latter, what’s interval? One every week? Thanks and great content.
2nd Question: Do you think it's okay to have two of these SPY bull put spreads on at the same time, entered about 10 days apart? Or is just one at a time better, under your "Rinse & repeat" principle?
Davis, I know that with a simple single option buy or sell, the delta tells you the % chance of a win/loss. How do you compute that for a credit spread ?
So, if you are selling the 25 delta for the put, how much lower is the put that you are buying? Is it just 1 strike lower? So, if you are selling the 498 put on SPY, are you buying the 497 put on SPY?
The spread for something like this would "typically" be $5 or $10. But you can modify this spread width based on how much credit you are trying to receive and how much max possible loss you are willing to risk to achieve that credit.
Davis, have you done any back test for closing the trade after 15 days, 20 days, 25 days etc? I wonder what those would be compared to 21 days DTE exit. Thank you.
Have a look at some of Tom Sosnoffs videos where he does a statistical study of why exit 21 DTE works best and why Selling puts are better than buying calls
Wrt the "25-35 delta" does this mean the delta is related to only the delta of the Put to sell, or is the "25-35" delta related to the sum of the Sold and Bought puts? Appreciate your help for me in advance for helping me understand this!
I believe it would probably apply if we are in a bear market and the underline is trading below the 200 MA. We are in a bull market at the moment, thank God.
Hi thanks for your greats videos, so useful 🙏I m trading options on IWM, and I have the cash if I am assigned, does this strategy work the same if I m selling cash secured puts without buying a long put, have a great day
I'd you select the strike price on RH it will show you the delta. Also you can select the settings in the top right corner and change one of the metrics to delta.
How do you get a win rate of 90% win rate from a 35/25 delta option spread? Even allowing for the net premium received, the win rate on this spread should be less than 70%.
All this regardless of IV Percentile and IV Rank? Im surprised because in most strategies volatility is the main focus when it comes to selling Credit Spreads.
Keeping up with current trends and strategies can help traders stay ahead of the curve and make informed decisions, It is important for beginners in trading and investing to understand that success in these fields requires technical analysis, emotional maturity, and self-discipline. Thanks to Flora Elkins insights, daily trade signals, and my dedication to learning, I've been increasing my daily earnings. Kudos to the journey ahead!
It is really refreshing to see a comment about Flora Elkin.I have worked with her also for months now, reached out after reading more about her on the internet. she simplifies matters, whether it's a market surge or drop; her approach consistently keeps you ahead of the trend, She's a guru i'll say
Investing has proven to be an incredibly beneficial decision. My cryptocurrency profits continue to play a substantial role in growing my overall wealth, reducing my reliance on my salary
Nice to see this here, Flora Elkin's understanding of market indicators is impressive. She knows exactly when to enter and exit trades for maximum profit. her siignals are top notch
That's right. If interested in cash-settled index options, I've already created a video on it here: ua-cam.com/video/hHK8TdVnjTQ/v-deo.htmlsi=vQo8uG1PfsnG33hc
For beginners? Don't you need about $10k to start trading spreads? Also, isn't it very unlikely that a broker would allow a beginner to open an account to trade credit spreads?
Good point ! I have a funded account but the broker won't let me trade credit spreads...like it is rocket surgery or something complex. No one seems to know ehat I have to do to get approval to trade credit spreads.
don't the 25-35 delta strikes give it a 65%-75% PoP? that is what I'm seeing on tasty. That is equivalent to 80-90% win rate? do you have the source video for that tasty study?
Even when your short leg go slightly in the money you still make money because of premium you get when you sell the put. Meaning the probability you make money is more than the probability delta indicates
SPX put spreads are defined risk just like SPY. In fact in some ways, SPX is safer given no risk of early assignment - cash settled also means no risk of being stuck with shares at a strike price that is far away.
Credit spreads are a very hard way to make money on the long run. You can easily be wiped out and there is little you can do to fix it. The easiest, best way to start is to use naked options on safe (well known) stocks. You can turn your position into a credit spread later to reduce risks, but you should start as a naked option.
I hear that Naked Options are incredibly risky. I prefer Scalping myself. Look for the absolute best highest probability setups and then Get In and Get Out.
Wide credit spreads act like naked options but with the benefit of margin reduction and defined loss. Also, it is possible to manage credit spread by rolling or hedging.
Win rate is meaningless and misleading. If you win 9 out of 10 trades but the losing trade loses 10 times more than the winners, you're not making much of a living.
When it comes to crypto that is way too volatile, one loss can indeed be more than wins on 9 trades. Stop loss must be used to avoid this or the one should DCA themselves out of the problem.
SPX is up over 23% for the year and there is Greater Likelihood the markets will either Decline or Won't keep rising at such a torrid pace ... It would be safer to Sell Bear Call Spreads, won't you agree?
Get Your Copy of My Strategy Blueprints For FREE:
1) The Options Income Blueprint: optionswithdavis.com/blueprint/
2) The Credit Spreads Blueprint: optionswithdavis.com/cs-blueprint/
Superb video! Great coach!
Davis, I went back to my notes from your earlier videos, and you had guidance that the net credit you want to receive from a Bull Put Spread is from 30-40% of the width, so for a $5-wide that would be $1.50-$2.00. I looked at a 46 DTE SPY Bull Put Spread the other day, and for the short strike right at the .25 delta and 5-wide, the net credit was only 77 cents. Is that too low? Or is this strategy here a simpler variant that is okay to have a credit of less than the "usual" guidance?
On a five wide, your cost would be 500-77=423. Your profit would be 77 divided by 423=18%. Assuming you only held the position for about 21 days instead of 45, in theory your percentage profit would be about 9%. For 3 weeks time, that would amount to somewhere in the 150% per year ballpark. That's definitely worth it. jmo
Thanks for the Saturday morning session. I appreciate it, as well as the topic.
You're welcome 👍
I've been diving deep into innovating tech stocks putting certain percent into the next wave for the next decade.
Stocks is not only about anticipating moves based off trends but anticipating through participating behind real top performers and attain how they execute perfectly.
coach Frost hilda take good care of my holdings giving me an edge to successful interest.
l've been getting suggestions to use a proper enlightened top tier, similar to your viewpoint.
I’m trying to figure out your selected holdings at the moment.
I've had majority of my holdings in ETFs, tech stocks and I've had 65% increase in my portfolio, especially with Nvidia, AMD P/E (price to earnings ratio) adding few others, Feel free to imitate my steps with a top performer.
I’ll just do that, Ive he’s socials
Always great material Davis. Your teaching style is clear and concise without the complication found on many other channels. I hope your channel flourishes, you deserve it!!
Thank you ☺️
love you man! you explain very well. Thanks 🙏
☺️☺️ You're welcome!
Ive saw most of the videos that you made. Thank you so much for the educational videos. I have one question. How often do I have to make the trade? you showed on the video of graph, but I don't know it is daily trade or trade after closing. It will be appreciated if you answer this. Thanks!
Dude, you give the most solid advice for folks who just want to make some money with least risk. Excellent, as are all your videos!!
Thanks for the kind words, appreciate it ☺️
@@optionswithdavis joined your group. Least I could do for your avuncular advice..
Appreciate it, Stan ☺️☺️
@@stanmanmedia I don’t see where you can join this group… Are you talking about just joining the UA-cam channel for the additional 4.99?
Great stuff Davis, thanks for this. Great content. Nobody talks about 'risk of ruin' when trading. It's all about probabilities, money management and risk management.....lovely 😉
You're welcome ☺️
Excellent video, Davis. Super clear instructions.
Thanks for the kind words ☺️
Nice breakdown!
Such a solid strategy. Thank you Davis 👍🏻
You're welcome 👍
great course, thanks u so much for sharing Davis!
No problem 👍
Hi Davis, great video I'm new to your channel and this strategy. with the 45 DTE is there a minimum DTE you would enter say 39 DTE and a maximum say 55 DTE? Thanks
See this: ua-cam.com/video/z0ZpIplIbbY/v-deo.htmlsi=9vp3CDTZJPZLDYAm
Thank you for these awesome videos.. They are easy to understand . You make it so easy & simple.
You're welcome.
excellent information, ty
You're welcome
Thanks for sharing this strategy! I sell covered put options most of the time, but I definitely want to try this one now. Thanks again, Davis!
You're welcome 👍
Hi Davies, have been following you and your content for almost 9 mths. Great info. Just a suggestion for making a living. May be good to illustrate base on 45 DTE, how can 1 make a living, ie. based on mthly expenses of USD$5000? Assuming closing at 21 DTE. with 1 contract of SPY, at 20 delta shd be ard USD$150 max? I recall that u dont recommend selling more contract to match the risk level 1 will willing to take, but rather increasing the "width" of the credit spread. How then does 1 achieve 5k a mth to trade for a living?
Thanks for your support and the suggestion 👍 Will consider planning a video on this.
At some point you would have to trade more contracts. The percentage return is the same, but you are putting more $ up front to generate more $ at the end. Example, if 1 contract makes you $100, then 2 make $200, 10 make $1000, etc. Just depends on what your $ risk tolerance is and how large your account already is. Hope this helps.
@@kevino4846 it would also help to do this on the SPX once your account is big enough, which taxes at 60% long term (assuming you're American)
Hi Davis, in either setup, would you close the position prior to 21 DTE if it hits 50% profit? Both of these are slightly different from what you had shown in the past with respect to position management, ie close at 50% profit, at 21 DTE, see if short strike is breached, etc.
Davis, for the 45 DTE trades for ETFs, is there any particular day of the week that is more favorable than other for your entries? Do you favor entering in the mornings or afternoons, or does it even matter for that long an expiration?
It doesn't matter for me.
@@optionswithdavis
You answer his second question, but avoid answering the first post....
thanks for the info. I am going to try that for sure.
You do a great job summarizing Tasty research. Please do a video on their recent 0DTE research.
Thanks ☺️ And thanks for the suggestion.
Thx for the very informative video Davis. Have to admit, I'm a pretty successful part-time (of course) LEAP options trader, but for the life of me, I have not been able to wrap my head around the "spreads"--in ANY regard. Regrettably the concept eludes me...not sure why. I watch various videos from various creators hoping to understand it from different perspectives but it has not yet stuck. Your video got me closer to the "ah-ha" moment. Thank you.
Great information!!
Thanks!
Nice video. For Method #2, do you observe the RSI for the selected stock on its daily chart? Thanks.
Thanks ☺️ Just the stochastic oscillator. You can see the settings here: ua-cam.com/video/wubStqtr27o/v-deo.htmlsi=NUW_UJxin72VX6nw
What about the delta to buy the option. You talked about the delta for Selling the option
Mentioned here: ua-cam.com/video/81t8AoPOKCA/v-deo.htmlsi=I4NgupYvRCy5wOFG
thank you
Great video! Quick question: would it make sense to set a profit taker at 50% of the original premium right at the time of original transaction? For example, if I sold at $1.60, should I aim to buy back at $0.80? Wondering if this approach aligns with managing risk and optimizing profits. Thanks!
Thank you. To trade the SPY with this strategy, would you recommend taking a position on a particular day of the week, or just any day will be okay?
Thank you for another great video! I don’t qualify yet for tier 2 credit spreads at Fidelity only tier 1. Hence I will only be selling CSP’s. My question is 1) do you still think it is a good conservative strategy to buy a protective put with say 10% of the premium, 2) Is 45 DTE still the best time frame in that case or could you go shorter like weekly to earn more premium?
Excellent video my friend, very clear, good pace and good use of data.
Hi Davis, is it advisable to choose a long DTE say 1000 days, and close it say in 7 days once it is is in a profit zone? Reason for chooing higher DTE is so that the premium earn is higher.
There’s really no point since there’s no theta decay that far out
Is there a way to compare a leap vs secure put or wheel strategy . Overall, I like the leap strategy. Any stock will be fine.
A put credit spread strategy requires sell a put option AND buy a put option at a lower strike price with the same expiration date. The strategy you mentioned is just writing a put option isn't it? I just want to make sure I got your strategy correct as you didn't cover buying a put option in this video. Thanks
This is my question as well. I wasn't sure if he suggested buying the put 1 strike price below the sell put price?
the spread is $10 wide . its on the video
Put Credit spread is better than the wheel to create periodic income with low risk?
Davies, how do I scale up? I am only trading SPY. I have 300K and want to risk 3% per trade. So roughly 9 contracts. Do I open one 9 contracts trade only, until I close it out at 21 DTE or can I open multiple 9 contracts trade? If it’s the latter, what’s interval? One every week? Thanks and great content.
2nd Question: Do you think it's okay to have two of these SPY bull put spreads on at the same time, entered about 10 days apart? Or is just one at a time better, under your "Rinse & repeat" principle?
Wbat do u mean by SELL Put Spread. Does it mean a naked Put at 45 DTE or SELL PUT ane then BUY PUT ?
Davis, I know that with a simple single option buy or sell, the delta tells you the % chance of a win/loss. How do you compute that for a credit spread ?
The simplest way is to see the P&L graph. Also watch this: ua-cam.com/video/81t8AoPOKCA/v-deo.htmlsi=83OYQqmMFjw1MU9h
Hi Davis, thank you for teaching. How much capital is required to place 1 PSC trade on SPY?
Usually about $450 if 5 wide
i like to put on 2 trades same week.. CCS and PCS on same security
So, if you are selling the 25 delta for the put, how much lower is the put that you are buying? Is it just 1 strike lower? So, if you are selling the 498 put on SPY, are you buying the 497 put on SPY?
hello, I believe Davis was talking about a $10 spread. That would be short 498 put, long 488 put.
The spread for something like this would "typically" be $5 or $10. But you can modify this spread width based on how much credit you are trying to receive and how much max possible loss you are willing to risk to achieve that credit.
You can construct it based on this: ua-cam.com/video/81t8AoPOKCA/v-deo.htmlsi=t8DtTub8CRZCo8Ej
Davis, have you done any back test for closing the trade after 15 days, 20 days, 25 days etc? I wonder what those would be compared to 21 days DTE exit. Thank you.
Have a look at some of Tom Sosnoffs videos where he does a statistical study of why exit 21 DTE works best and why Selling puts are better than buying calls
please excuse my question i am trying to learn all the Lingo. what is a DTE stand for when you say a 21DTE?
Days-to-Expiration
Wrt the "25-35 delta" does this mean the delta is related to only the delta of the Put to sell, or is the "25-35" delta related to the sum of the Sold and Bought puts? Appreciate your help for me in advance for helping me understand this!
He answered this in the video. It’s the option you sell.
Davis, does the same criteria mentioned applies also for Bear call spread?
I have the same exact question, since we may be looking for some correction soon.....
I believe it would probably apply if we are in a bear market and the underline is trading below the 200 MA. We are in a bull market at the moment, thank God.
Yes same strategy but in reverse.
Hi thanks for your greats videos, so useful 🙏I m trading options on IWM, and I have the cash if I am assigned, does this strategy work the same if I m selling cash secured puts without buying a long put, have a great day
Yes it does.
Great realist info as usual….thanks for sharing good strategies
You're welcome 👍
Thanks Davis. How do you build the .25-.35 delta on Robinhood? There are selections for $ width, and % change, but don't see the option for delta.
Options chains usually show a column for delta.
I'd you select the strike price on RH it will show you the delta. Also you can select the settings in the top right corner and change one of the metrics to delta.
In 25 35 delta, which will be short and long puts at?
The 25-35 delta put is the short put. The long put would be 5 - 10 points lower depending on how much you want as your max risk.
@@orlandofl6297 so in the entire video he never mentioned the exact strategy???
Already mentioned in this video: ua-cam.com/video/81t8AoPOKCA/v-deo.htmlsi=2iSMSPd84I1NQWLU
How do you get a win rate of 90% win rate from a 35/25 delta option spread? Even allowing for the net premium received, the win rate on this spread should be less than 70%.
All this regardless of IV Percentile and IV Rank? Im surprised because in most strategies volatility is the main focus when it comes to selling Credit Spreads.
In which timeframe are you looking for oversold RSI and support levels? Is that the daily chart? Or weekly maybe?
probably daily
What is the movie average in your chart? Are you making any trading decision with moving average?
Keeping up with current trends and strategies can help traders stay ahead of the curve and make informed decisions, It is important for beginners in trading and investing to understand that success in these fields requires technical analysis, emotional maturity, and self-discipline. Thanks to Flora Elkins insights, daily trade signals, and my dedication to learning, I've been increasing my daily earnings. Kudos to the journey ahead!
I've just looked up her full name on my browser and found her webpage without sweat, very much appreciate this.
It is really refreshing to see a comment about Flora Elkin.I have worked with her also for months now, reached out after reading more about her on the internet. she simplifies matters, whether it's a market surge or drop; her approach consistently keeps you ahead of the trend, She's a guru i'll say
Investing has proven to be an incredibly beneficial decision. My cryptocurrency profits continue to play a substantial role in growing my overall wealth, reducing my reliance on my salary
Nice to see this here, Flora Elkin's understanding of market indicators is impressive. She knows exactly when to enter and exit trades for maximum profit. her siignals are top notch
XSP can't be assigned early for anyone interested. Works like spy otherwise. It's cash settled.
That's right. If interested in cash-settled index options, I've already created a video on it here: ua-cam.com/video/hHK8TdVnjTQ/v-deo.htmlsi=vQo8uG1PfsnG33hc
Can those spreads be traded in a cash account?
How do you manage black swan event ?
Rollover before your options go in the money
Who cares? You have defined risk. SPY or whatever can do to zero and you have no additional risk.
Hey Davis, which one of these strategies are YOU using on a regular basis?
Both.
For beginners? Don't you need about $10k to start trading spreads? Also, isn't it very unlikely that a broker would allow a beginner to open an account to trade credit spreads?
Good point ! I have a funded account but the broker won't let me trade credit spreads...like it is rocket surgery or something complex. No one seems to know ehat I have to do to get approval to trade credit spreads.
don't the 25-35 delta strikes give it a 65%-75% PoP? that is what I'm seeing on tasty. That is equivalent to 80-90% win rate? do you have the source video for that tasty study?
Even when your short leg go slightly in the money you still make money because of premium you get when you sell the put. Meaning the probability you make money is more than the probability delta indicates
@@coryjiang that is accounted for in PoP provided by tasty. Maybe look at P50 as closer to win rate when closing at 21 DTE?
@@coryjiang PoP includes that. Maybe we should be using P50 (probability of 50% profit) as a guide to win rate when closing at 21 DTE?
Why not trade the Spx instead of spy?
SPX put spreads are defined risk just like SPY. In fact in some ways, SPX is safer given no risk of early assignment - cash settled also means no risk of being stuck with shares at a strike price that is far away.
@@xyexz That is truth I rather do spx spread
Have created a video on Cash-settled Index Options here: ua-cam.com/video/hHK8TdVnjTQ/v-deo.htmlsi=Ss58WQsDXVUEPEcn
If you use this trade to purchase stock your loss is pretty close to 0% 😊 If the price does not hit your target you repeat until you get assigned.
shack
Credit spreads are a very hard way to make money on the long run. You can easily be wiped out and there is little you can do to fix it. The easiest, best way to start is to use naked options on safe (well known) stocks. You can turn your position into a credit spread later to reduce risks, but you should start as a naked option.
I hear that Naked Options are incredibly risky. I prefer Scalping myself. Look for the absolute best highest probability setups and then Get In and Get Out.
Wide credit spreads act like naked options but with the benefit of margin reduction and defined loss. Also, it is possible to manage credit spread by rolling or hedging.
Win rate is meaningless and misleading. If you win 9 out of 10 trades but the losing trade loses 10 times more than the winners, you're not making much of a living.
That is why risk management is so important. You never want to take a maximum loss.
That was my problem.
Over time I just broke even.
When it comes to crypto that is way too volatile, one loss can indeed be more than wins on 9 trades. Stop loss must be used to avoid this or the one should DCA themselves out of the problem.
@@lapena7904indeed.. but sometimes max loss gets in your face overnight
That’s been my experience. Even with a 66% win rate, 1 max loss can make for negative PL.
SPX is up over 23% for the year and there is Greater Likelihood the markets will either Decline or Won't keep rising at such a torrid pace ... It would be safer to Sell Bear Call Spreads, won't you agree?