The British, unlike the Portuguese were not that much into spreading of Christianity, their support for missionaries in India was very light. Indeed the early English East India Company even banned missionaries to land in their part of India. Which us why missionaries like Carey had to land in Danish parts of India. Only later did the East India Company directors come to the decision that since Indians are human beings like the British, they have the right to listen to words of the Lord. Only then missionaries were allowed in but even after that British Government (both the East India Company Government or the later British Raj Government) support for missionaries was very limited....
western societies are more feudal and have bigger problems than caste system in india ,by 1857 left wing ideologies started sweeping europe already marx was at his peak. In india we atleast have checks and balances in the form of budhism,jainism ,shaivism ,chrvaka to counter feudal corruption in west there is no such thing. Only alternative to christianity is complete bloody rebellian in the fomr of marxism. COming to your question ,British by 1850s were already significantly influenced by leftist ideas in the form of hegel, marx. they were lesss interested in bringing christianity and more intersted in destroying hinduism .Its only after independence we see christianity used as a weapon by Left . During british rule christianisation was never a political weapon of left wing idealogies. Its mostly the deep state post independence which weaponised/wokedup christianty.
@jzzquant No society on planet Earth, ( and many had caste systems) came close to the ruthlessness and discrimination of the caste system of India, Ambedkar has made a deep analysis of comparative systems. Next, no the British in the 1700s and 1800s were not influenced by Marx or Hegel, this process of Marx becoming popular among the British elite started in the early 1900s. Marxism was a rebellion against the merchant class who had earlier rebelled against feudalism in movements like the French Revolution or classical Liberalism, so it was a revolution against earlier revolutionaries. Marx was against all religions, not just Christianity, he was of Jewish heritage. The ideology driving British Empire in India was more Classical Liberalism (Whigs) than Christianity.... The British Empire in India and say the Dutch Empire in Indonesia was more about preservation of global trading interests (against enemy European powers and later the USA and Japanese Empire), than religion. Religion (Christianity) was secondary concern. This is different than the Portuguese or Spanish Empires.
@@mudra5114 There has been so systematic analysis quantiatvely f feaudal systems ever done by anyone , qualitateively ya everyone has an opinion, the closest we got is of gini coefficient as the only reliable metric across countries: ferdi.fr/dl/df-3ccxatVX4ED68ofXBfvLpFs4/ferdi-p25-average-income-inequality-between-countries-1700-2030.pdf and gini coefficient analysis clearly suggests income inequality only starts riising between countries after 18th century, it was pretty much the same across world before that.
@@mudra5114 you are repeating the lies and forced re-education of the British and missionaries. Please read Dhrampal's book "The Beautiful Tree" where there are even official surveys by British officers. There was not a single reference on caste Gurukula before 1835. In 1835 Macaulay laid down his policy of giving an English education to Indians in the English Education Act, 1835. That was when Indian education system was dismantled and missionaries entered the education system and lies started to be systematically plated.
@@mudra5114 Caste is a word that comes from Castas a Portuguese word. The rigid caste system is of European origin and was imported into India. A large part of rigidity of the caste system comes from the monopoly of Church over god.
notice how this book and talk pointedly avoid talking about Islam and its impact on Hinduism. Shows you their politics. Islam basically did far worse than European Christianity, but nobody has the guts to analyze.
@B14cksun lol that's my point. The roots of modern Hindu identity/Hindutva predate European colonialism rule. But we're happy to dish it out about European Christianity because they're a less contentious target 😄
I'm Christian i have read missionaries biographies, British never had this mindset to spread Christianity in India. Their only aim is trade and run the company in India. It is missionaries whom voluntarily left the country sold all their properties to come to India at their own risks. Unfortunately there is lot of misinformation about missionaries which leads in gratitude towards their life sacrificing deeds.
East India company coming to India was for the same reason Amazon came to India or Adani went to Kenya..to make money that was the main goal. And missionaries were a threat to that goal.
Very true brother, many thanks fr voicing out.., missionaries were restricted badly by the British colonizers.. #Having a biblical name doesn't make one Christian..one should walk according words of Christ [Matt 7:21]... Colonizers looted, missionaries sacrificially serviced.., they both have different motives.., Christ's heart is always to serve others, even enemies.. pls dnt misunderstand..🙏🙏
Please read the book “The Missionaries Calculus” authored by Dr. Anil Belvadi, published by Oxford University Press, with foreword by the head of Harvard Divinity School. Documented with writings by the missionaries themselves.
I'm a Hardcore Hindu Nationalist. My Mom beleives in Jesus and keeps a Photo of Jesus in her Pooja Room along with other Hindu Gods. I don't believe in Jesus, But I have no problem with Jesus in our Pooja Room. No one tells her who to worship in our Family, That is the beauty of Hinduism - We embrace all Beleifs and Gods.
Both the dominant Abrahamic religions have vowed to convert 'heathens/kafirs' into their so-called one and only true way. Bharat is an unfinished business for them. Hope the host interviews Dr Koenraad Elst who will give a more complete and truer picture of negationism in India done by Congress/Marxists.
The anchor is naturally oriented towards a particular position and tried to steer the conversation with Manu in the direction of her desire. But Manu has stood his ground and gave a good account of himself as an unbiased professional historian without so much of an agenda, unlike the anchor.
Just search in Google: Who owns most land in india after Government Result: Catholic Church of India has 17 crores 29 lakhs of acres thru Indian church act 1927 by British Colonialism. Changanassery SB college,Aluva UC college,etc.are examples of free gifts from British to their faith. The gifting of free land can be given to Dharmasthans, Devasthans and Devaswoms too if Britain had no such intentions.
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The core belief of Xianity and Islam that a real God will torture in hell the non believers of their books is nonsensical gibberish. Everyone should oppose and expose this toxic gibberish propagated by these two religions.
@@akhiljames8807 bruh christian god forgives your inhumane sins for converting. A pinned jesus gave you free license to pre paid crimes. Yahowa is a jealous and insecure god. There are so many flaws in this religion
The Hell and Heaven can be considered against the rebirth as an animal if karma is not good. Eventually, the idea is put forward in many differently in different faiths.
@@Pinku-k4e yes. But the point is why is he only choosing to focus on this period when the issue he's addressing - Hindutva - predates the European period.
We had calls for reforms from long time many sages and hindu intellectuals even in second millennium before British advent have called for reforms and rejected caste discrimination.
@@yj9032no they didn’t - e.g. Maharashtra society is heavily influenced by Bhakti movement of Maharashtra. Saint Tukaram to Saint Janeshwar all happened in medieval times of India way before Christian missionary arrived here. Similar was for Tamil Bhakti movement also. It was just reactionary elements like Rajarammohan Roy and few others in Bengal who tried to imitate British missionaries to reform Hinduism through attempts of Samaj n all- which all failed eventually I must say. Intresting thing is Abrahamic religions who are last to accept reform are tagged as reason of reform in east Asian and south Asian religions - that’s so stupid and ignorant
Hinduism is really resilient. Just take a look at South America and Africa. Consequent to western colonialisation how many indigenous religions are still alive there? None, mostly. Now look at India today.
@@nabhinayyamunite?...india was never United nor now and I don't think ever will be in future because people here having rotten mindset of caste, religion,race, region, colour etc
Not so. look at Pakistan and Bangladesh. If you guys were resilient then how did these guys get converted? You guys almost got extinct. If it was not because of the British strong hand India would have been one big Pakistan. Truth is it was the missionary's idea for India to be independent which was against the will of the company and that's what they put a ban on the export of missionary's so they had to come from different routes.
Why nobody is talking about the *nazranis* - Christians from 1st century, even before Christianity reached Europe. The Jewish (traders) were present in most of the major PORTS in our side. There are many Christians who are still following that teaching. Yes, Portuguese and European pushed the teaching in a different pace . We all are evolving.
Just search in Google: Who owns most land in india after Government Result: Catholic Church of India has 17 crores 29 lakhs of acres thru Indian church act 1927 by British Colonialism. Changanassery SB college,Aluva UC college,etc.are examples of free gifts from British to their faith. The gifting of free land can be given to Dharmasthans, Devasthans and Devaswoms too if Britain had no such intentions.
Who is running india as a narco terror hub for wahabbis.. Gogole : doval sons saudi cayman islands. Utube : ntt manipur druglord brinda asp Utube : newslaundry manipur CM druglord brinda asp US will invade mexico for drug smuggling ..when that happesn this will give a precedene for US to invade other narco terror hubs ..
Hindutva is a new concept cooked up by genocidal crooks in RSS terror dungeons. Just another millionth changes to suit an upper caste design for society they want to rule.
@@adwianyathen what was Pushymitra shunga did in past then?...he was also kattar hindu and he rejected other religion ideologies 🤷♂️....don't put yourself as an innocent because your mindset is the real reason why hindus beaten in foreign countries everyday...you illiterate claims this and they have to suffer there,even you abuse foreigners on comments so they don't like People like you and they think all hindus are like you so they Discriminate others otherwise before this ideology became famous everything was right in foreign countries
@@adwianyacoz bramins and kshatriyyas always had position in mughal temple Even tipu had bunch of bramins Muslim and hindu rulers were cruel and exploitstive against poor lower caste people they never got represented in courts
@@darshandhawan5923can't say about Adi Shankaracharya because he was kattar hindu and most kattar hindus are like Casteists....that's the reason people respect Swami Vivekananda, Dayanand Saraswati Ji etc not these Shankaracharya or any other hindus 🤷♂️ If you want to be hindu then be like swami ji otherwise don't call yourself hindu because you're spoiling name of Hinduism by this way on global level.....attack on hindus increased since past few years and reason is i already gave you
Many native faiths and practices from all over South America failed to Abhramics. The entire North and East Africa surrendered to sex slave trader Mohamad, who invented Arab imperialism. The entire Asia, east of the Saudi peninsula, from Egypt to Uzbekistan, surrendered to Arab imperialism. But one faith, Sanatan Dharm, and its people endlessly fought both varieties' of Abhramic imperialism. They lost many times. But they did not totally surrender, unlike natives of South America, Africa, and North Asia. Today people in Uzbekistan have no clue who they were 2000 years ago. What was their way of looking at the purpose of life? What big questions did their ancestors ask? They just surrendered to Arabic imperialism. Today people of Pakistan are happy to be the progeny of "ma-malkat-maaima-nukum" women.
If you think Hinduism has not changed in the last 3000 years you have not read history. How come the harappans were not worshipping any of the Gods we see today? Why the adivasis dont believe in Karma? How come Vedas encourage animal sacrifice but today most Hindus dont do it? You have also changed your beliefs just like others ..humanity has evolved . Stop acting as if your religion is unchanged as if its immune to everything else. Christianity and Islam were natural progression from polytheism in the evolution of religion. Also there are some arguments that oldest african religions were monotheistic before getting corrupted.
Interesting talk. Some points: - they seem to suggest that Hinduism isn't as diverse and diffuse as it used to be, and that Hindutva is somehow limiting and reducing its diversity and openness. We don't see it that way. We see Hindutva as the externally-oriented carapace protecting this basic unchanged core of Hinduism. All that's changed is that Hindus have developed tooth and talon with which to fight back. - notice how this book and talk pointedly avoid talking about Islam and its impact on Hinduism. Shows you their politics. Islam basically did far worse than European Christianity, but nobody has the guts to analyze. - and they seem to be fine with Hinduism remaining defensive and under siege, but not with going on the offensive to spread itself. Why should we have to be the ones being on the defensive from constant attacks? Why shouldn't we take the fight to the enemy? Why shouldn't we spread our culture? We too have great things to teach the world. Why should we let only the paranoid and intolerant desert cults dominate and rule the world? Somehow they're okay with Christianity and Islam exhibiting tribalism and xenophobia and they don't criticize that, but if Hindus do it for the sake of survival, it's BAAAD. - also, identities evolve all the time. Hindutva is a part of a process of modernization. I see nothing wrong or alien about that. - what Hindutva is basically doing is borrowing from the playbook of Christians and Muslims and deploying their own tactics against them, beating them at their own game. It is an immune response to the infection. If the infection goes away, then the immune response will too. - good to see Manu sidestep and carefully handle some of the host's leading questions. She certainly had an agenda she was pushing.
What a beautiful time for this discussion specifically with the rise of right globally. I was raised catholic and have always criticised christianity specifically during the previous govt. I find his work incredibly thought provoking and intellectually honest. Will be reading more. I love how he created an image of how the Hindu intellectual and missionaries debated, and the political incoming of christianity. Wonderful.
I wrote an article in 2000 from a Christian perspective titles, ‘Hindu fundamentalism and Christian Response’ reaching nearly the same conclusion. If you google, you can find my article. Thesis of my article was that Christian exclusivist led to Hindu renaissance and calling Christian to be more inclusive.
Christianity and Islam are exclusivist religions. One God, one book, one path to divinity. How can they be inclusive? Do you ask them to rewrite Bible and Koran which are God’s words -immutable ? And if you do aren’t you labeled as heretical or blasphemous?
@@tylerdavidson2400 what is the relevance? Talking about exclusivism in response to the post. No religion is kind to women, although all adherents claim superiority compare with reference to others - who is less misogynistic is the competition.
Excellent discussion. As much as I could make out from the discussion, it seems cogent and sober representation of something Hindus have been trying to put across, on proselytization, on being open to new ideas, on Hinduism being decrntralized tradition. The "threat" to him comes more from the likes of The Print for what he has said is contrary to the Nehruvian Romila Thapar Irfan Habib narrative on India and Hindus.
Many of the missionaries active in South India were German nationals, Britain and Germany were long-time rivals. British considered them as enemies and even persecuted them
Just search in Google: Who owns most land in india after Government Result: Catholic Church of India has 17 crores 29 lakhs of acres thru Indian church act 1927 by British Colonialism. Changanassery SB college,Aluva UC college,etc.are examples of free gifts from British to their faith. The gifting of free land can be given to Dharmasthans, Devasthans and Devaswoms too if Britain had no such intentions.
God doesn't need any service as such. The indic faith mostly focuses on self-realization. Hence, u won't see Political commentary or talks of Proselytization of other faiths in Jain, Hindu, or Sikh temples. However, the Friday prayers and Sunday masses stress the importance of unified political choice, and the ways to bring as many people as possible into their way of life. They even collect a set percentage of fees ( Thites & Zakat)...
@@akhiljames8807 Iskon never insult another religion they just saying read the Gita and customer have to pay for that where as Islam and chritantiy tell people to baptize or take shadad so no they are not same
in most of biographies of freedom movement like gandhi etc except nehru we find that missionaries abusing the hindu gods laughing at krishna and gopis etc but at no time did the hindus question the illegitimate birth of jesus mainly because sanyassis are forbidden to speak bad language .people obeyed the religious leaders like swami vivekananda who never spoke bad about any faith islam or catholicism even though both were temple breakers .
@@piyalibanerjee5445 There are serious issues with the statement 'All paths lead to God'. Would aztec priests sacrificing children on the altar to please their God also be accepted in Hinduism? Would raping women in temples to please God be accepted? Would human sacrifices done by some tantric practicioners lead to God? No right so dont say all paths lead to God. Only the righteous, virtuous and truthful paths lead to God. Any other way is to be thrown away, it is from the devil. Christianity believes that morality is objective and not subjective. So there are 'ways' that humans can develop for selfish interests that are strictly a no go.
there is a tendency to drag every historian to a squabble and label him woke thereby anti Hindu...Manu is head and shoulder above this fray. Why are his books not available in Audible, whereas even Darlymple's recent book gets prime of place is a patent bias
The English educated interpretation is so entrenched, it seems inextricable. Without understanding Sanskrit and without being able to dig into the scriptures and find its meaning, you really should refrain from such comparative studies. I am not sure who this bloke is or that he knows Sanskrit. He sounds like the typical English educated fellow that is trying to find his identity from a western lens.
Whenever any asur came to earth they did same thing like don't pray to this devata or devi , looted etc same pattern, if you know hindu history it's all same, they came we fought with the help of devi ,devata we defeated them
Among the colonizing powers, the British were the most civilized and India got REALLY lucky. There would have been multiple genocides if the Portuguese, Belgians , Germans or the French were in power. All other European powers were FAR more malevolent than the British (who actually had an element of benevolence and justice in them). This is not to discount the atrocities that happened under the Brits. That happens is all forms of colonialism.
Even though atrocities get the most attention, it is the slow strangulation by colonialism that is more damaging. Like siphoning off all the wealth, destroying indigenous industries, preventing modern industries getting established and not providing education to the population (not to mention the divide and rule policy). British were very good at this, and India has not fully recovered from the destruction caused by colonialism. China has smartly recovered more or less.
@@Mathewsdc192 You haven't updated yourselves since the 2000s. China's nominal per capita GDP is ~12k and based on PPP is 26K. Isn't that a recovery, and it is still growing pretty fast and is a leader in high tech in many fields.
@@tellsparck it will not grow Any more , china s per now simmikar to Mexico and south America , Mexico and Brazil is the first choice now , India has cheap worker but factory work is considered of low social status so India is lagging behind
bro.. Endorsing hindutva with anti-christian slogans won't work out to a larger extent unlike Anti-muslim propaganda.. The world has changed a lot .. Try to imbibe the right perspective😂😂😂😂
Just search in Google: Who owns most land in india after Government Result: Catholic Church of India has 17 crores 29 lakhs of acres thru Indian church act 1927 by British Colonialism. Changanassery SB college,Aluva UC college,etc.are examples of free gifts from British to their faith. The gifting of free land can be given to Dharmasthans, Devasthans and Devaswoms too if Britain had no such intentions.
Missionaries had done more good things to India than bad thing. Gave food and medicine, education and clothing. They developed the local languages and grammar. They started printing technology and books. Mr Manu wants to look more on the possible less dark side of Hindu - Christian relationship. So he chose to avoid Islam. Unlike Islam Christianity never teaches to kill idol worshippers or non belivers.
The very basics question one need to ask him or her self is weather the religion that he or dhe is following is from God or not. If it is not then you got to move on to find answers elsewhere. You just dont stay in the same place and be happy with what ever we have even if it not true. Hinduism is just happy with what ever they have with out even enquiring weather it is from the actual God. How to judge which one is correct or atleast close to being true. When Hinduism was debated in Britishers times one of the problem that was identified in Hinduism was self contradiction which make it unreliable. It brakes the law of logic. You cannot build a just structure on the basis of it. Thats why even the suprime court declared it a way of life. Cause you can't fit it into a religion category so you can't frame laws on the bases of it. This gentleman is very cleverly puting his view out with out giving their side of the argument. I dont think he even understand the psychology behind religion.
@@sanman8530 what makes a religion true or false? Abrahamic religions say some special person said something and it is recorded in one particular book and that alone is true and everyone should believe it , if not, we will force you to believe it by pen, guile or sword or guns. Hinduism says truth is not the monopoly of any one religion. True Religion is available to all those who sincerely want to reach the Divine “The Truth is One, people worship it by different names”. We accept all the Abrahamic faiths and other religions as different paths when followed sincerely will lead to the same goal as any of the practices of Hinduism. Without that kind of broad mindedness (catholicism) the world will be full of strife between religions. If we claim any special place at all it is that we are one of the few religions who not merely tolerate other religions but truly accept them as alternate but equally true paths to the divine.
@@maheshjambardi771dear sir, one religion says Love thy neighbour and the other one say eat thy neighbour. They both can't coexist together cause one will devour the other. If you think Hinduism believe in coexist then you are misinformed. Then you have not read the Vedas and the shastras. Brahma Purana 106.121 “There is a hell named Gudapaka. It is full of boiling eddies of treacle and molasses. A man responsible for the mixture in castes is thrown into it. He is burnt therein.” we all know what happened in kumba ko mela where shavites fought against vasnavites. I just gave you only two example. If you need I can give you hundred of references about how Hinduism is not what you think it is. It couldn't fit in lower caste forget about coexistence. And to answer your question regarding which religion is true or false is to do critical thinking and some deductive reasoning. Sir truth is not truth if it is true for you and not for me. Law of gravity doesn't work differently for you. You don't fall up and I fall down. Same way truth is same for both of us. Logic says the whole creation looks designed by and intelligent source or creator. Looking at the creations we can make few intelligent guesses about what a creator could possibly be. One of the key features of the creator is certainly a personal being with a personal interest in what he created. A glo😢bal God and not a regional God with only interest in one particular cast. Hindus are far far behind in religious studies. You don't understand the psychology behind religion.
Very interesting view point, albeit a deviant one from conventionally held notions about the tense confrontation between these two religions and their different worldviews. I fully agree with Manu that history is fluid and always in need of new interpretation, particularly as new evidence emerges. Interestingly (and ironically) enough it is only in the last two decades that so much interest in Indian history has been generated. This period, for better or worse, coincides with the rise of the political right. It saw the blossoming of a whole new community of Indian history writers, (manu being one among them) who took it upon themselves to look deeply into aspects of Indian history that had never been part of the dominant narrative in the text books that generations of post independence Indians were brought up on, not knowing anything other or different. I'm deeply grateful for this newly found renaissance of Indian history and history writing. While I understand the dance (delicate and macabre at times) that went on between Christianity and Hinduism during the colonial period in India (as this book suggests), no mention whatsoever is made (at least not in this talk) about the conversions that took place under Islamic rule, which prevailed for about half a millennium before European colonial rule in India. It was a totally different form of conversion , or so we have been given to believe ; one that was for the most part stridently insistent and violent in its enforcement, which included the state sanctioned destruction of Hindu temples. In this it was very different in nature and expression from that of the conversion agendas of Christian missionaries in India. It would be interesting to know what sort of devices Hinduism employed to protect itself from Islamic religious pressures aimed at conversion, and how these responses may have succeeded in strengthening it in ways we are not aware of. Waiting for a book on this by someone someday `~
Just search in Google: Who owns most land in india after Government Result: Catholic Church of India has 17 crores 29 lakhs of acres thru Indian church act 1927 by British Colonialism. Changanassery SB college,Aluva UC college,etc.are examples of free gifts from British to their faith. The gifting of free land can be given to Dharmasthans, Devasthans and Devaswoms too if Britain had no such intentions.
Thank you for the excellent presentation on looking at things from a contemporary perspective. Normally one ought to look at both sides of the argument, here you yourself are giving a favorable version for your narrative. A small thought I wish to highlight is primarily the book deals with colonial Christian's history and their influence on our nation. ( There are people who think buddist muslims and Christian's are not part of this nation. But they can have this narrative only outside Punjab.) How in present day, is it good to speak about, it is safe to speak. When we ask such questions are we enquiring if Christian's will be creating a scene ~ which is unsafe for the author, is in toto not valid. ( Infact muslims will create a ruckus isn't valid either. also till you shake them so badly and they don't have a choice.). Interestingly THE EXAMPLE QUOTED FOR LACK OF SAFETY WAS a maharashtrian one another faction related to Indian heritage, and nothing related to colonial west or for that matter the islamic rulers. So the party that is causing trouble is thinking they are in problem by there own kind but blaming other non related entities is the narrative and that ought not to be missed. Eg things do happen like Modi ji being not given Visa by the colonial masters. And India not in a position to do anything much about it, inspite of a NRI becoming a PM in Europe. But at the same time India the Viswaguru not allowing Sonia ji to be a PM in India staring it's not practical. But in the end, the victim is Indian and trouble maker might be a westerners or the islamic invaders and authors might be in danger is mixed up... As it's another non Christian non islamic guy that is causing all the commotion. It's I will do what I want and the problems that occur are because of my writing. Then I will blame the west, but there is no proof given. At least for contemporary time. Grahm Staines a Australian missionary was burnt alive with his two kids in Mayurbhanj our Honorable President Draupadi Marmus constituency. Similarly more than 470+ churches were burnt in Manipur, if we include the house churches where people met in houses the number easily crosses 500+, a muslim man. Who does business in Manipur enquired, oh you "Christian's are non violent people". He couldn't believe after all this happened, how the Christian's restrained themselves. But it's Hindu is in kathrae danger is the narrative. What we need to understand is in Ramayana Ram killed Ravana to bring Sita ji back. In Mahabharata Pandavas fought the kauravas, all the dieties that came annihilated evil, so where is the practice of non violence and restraint. There is no place in scriptures for that(?). I suspect this could have been a element of buddism that the Indian culture borrowed before annihilating it in toto. A brain ~planner, a financer and muscle is the core team. A small fraction focussing on creating ruckus. But Indian beef exports touch the highest globally we can check the top ten exporters. It's a smart political mobilization by a small lobby. The way the cow protection gang resigned after the cow vigilante leader was arrested, same is the future of these vigilantes. In India there are no u Christian's or Muslim vigilantes.
Everybody took the European ideas, Arab Ba'ath parties, Bengal Hindu reform, Ata Turk, Rabindranath Tagore, Chinese Mao in France, Muslim Spain... But research it, they selectively solved some BLOOD flowing problems (example the rule of law), not the everything. Working models (technology) was just a necessity. Even Before Christ, Mauriyan kings said to then Old Persian (not the Aryans or Iranians) Zoroastrians, "do not proselytize us, we allow you only on this condition". But the Education & scholarship of debates indeed created the "Aryan (teacher) or Iranian at the borders of Afghanistan, Tajikistan", slightly TILTED towards the Persian understanding (Artha, Sanskrit: अर्थ; Pali: Attha) called the #Sanskrit. But all the way the original understandings also embeded in the multiple meanings of the word.
Hinduism content in karma theory needed a healthy dose of christianity (influence) to discover/rediscover humanitarian response to poverty, sickness and the wretched❤
It is infact a better time to come up with new interpretations and ideas. The right fit the first time is getting space to present it's study , ideas and views. Earlier they were simply cancelled and blanked out. They were never even be invited to the Indian literary congregations. Imagine ! And they still called themselves 'liberal', scholarly , academics 😮!
No one can be converted to Christianity. It is a personal decision and a relationship between an individual and Christ Jesus who died for the sins of every person on earth. ✝️🙏🏻 John 3:16
Why fabricate English , if you want to quote jesus or John? give the original verse in the original language and then give the english translation , you cant live through anybody other than yourself , otherwise you going to be exploited , robbed and enslaved.
He is making mistakes in every sentence. I dont know where to even begin. Please debate this with shakshi apologetics live so every thing will be crystal clear. Another attempt to brainwash Indians.
Hmm, if an average Hindu is compared against a murderer who's is Christian in terms of actions, that's a BIGOT! This guy has does not provide a balanced narrative but a biased one, and not ashamed to manipulate and lie. Shameful guys
I hope your book includes AMY CARMICHAEL, MOTHER TERESA, DAVID LIVINGSTONE IN AFRICA, WILLIAM WILBERFORCE BRITISH PARLIAMENTARIAN OF THE CLAPHAM SECT AND SCORES OF OTHERS WHO FOUGHT AGAINST WESTERN SECULARISTS MASQUERADING AS CHRISTIANS. BUT for christian missionaries we would be slaves of brahmins still and there would be still the queer marriage customs in our native KERALA.
Your ancestors may have been slaves of Brahmins. None of ours were. Mother Theresa was a monster. Offering the poor succour in return for conversion is a disgusting practise..only you christians think it's a wonderful thing to rob people first, reduce them to poverty and then convert them to your piece of shit religion
What do you say about 60+M natives were killed in the Americas, plus more in Africa, Australia, New Zealand! Christianity has never reformed from idea they are superior to all and therefore a brown, non-Christian are bottom of societal structure. Even forcibly converted natives in the west are treated worse than beasts. Hinduism has evolved and always does to modern times where tribals or oppressed communities can be in positions of power whereas nothing of this sort in the West nor will it happen! Christianity still condones racism, gender, patriarchal control of everyone else!
Great, same colonial propogonda showing brahminsa as monsters to destroy local culture still shows how Hindus are resilient and tolerant still living peacefully amongst colonial brain washers like you.
There is Hindu doctor in Karnataka who gave crores of his own land freely for schools. Did operations to poor . And I can give so many examples. Only thing is the west only propogates mother Theresa and people like her who has nothing to give and undermine local people who do good. This itself is colonialism. There hundreds of mother Theresa in Hinduism who don't project and go behind media and noble prizes or given space by westerners
Free India had a glorious tradition of leftist historians building their political bias, feeding on public money. If that academic achievement is something this guest is proud of, then one can very well understand the bias behind his work
You mean suspected PRonographic WRITINGS Exploitation even being colonial slavery????? Ever COLLABORATION with. ;; with due respect? PLEASE LISTEN LATEST FROM SUPREME COURT RT. JUSTICE. ; KATJU JI; FACTUALITY MR ???? ENOUGH OF KHEEER FREEEEEBEEEEES? MAANU ?
Pillai finally has sold out his soul. Now it is play with the fascist time to bring out the “hurt hindu” What Hindu are you talking about Manu? Brahmin right ? Also the way you use the word “attack” is really out of place when you yourself say there was not a lot of conversion at the end.
What u talking about? Victims of Colonialism were from all sectors of society... why this hate for Brahmins? Oh yes that's what colonial education though u to hate while whitewash colonial crimes
@@Perumanian thats just a subproduct of colonial education in justify foreign rule and blame social issues at local traditions... brahmins were more attacked for uphold the religion traditions as a way of living but all society suffered under colonial rule wich can equate to slavery genocide and eugenics based on religious and racial Supremacy of colonial masters. But yet u want repeat they're narrative that local religious people that oppressed others not the invader rulers.
Superb discussion...one point is that Jesus didn't come to the Europeans, he came to the Israeli people...this is where God appeared as a man, which was predicted centuries before...also one of his disciples St.Thomas came to India to give the great news, centuries before the Portuguese. Pls ponder on all these finer points...and read more...
yes on this earth god always appeared thorugh man and also always spoke only to men and especially Arab men. And yes that book which predicted god's son to come to earth also said that solar system is earth centric and was created some 4000 years before Jesos sets foot on earth. God seems not to know his own creations!!!!!
@@piyalibanerjee5445 Bible is not a scientific book,it is a theological book. It does not tell the age of the universe but why the universe was created. Roman empire was the centre of the trade route when Christ came and Israel had strict monotheism being followed before Christ. So God came to right place for all humanity.
@@akhiljames8807 It seems that you are disregarding Genesis and older parts of the Bible that talk of creation and cosmology. If so, that is good. For the theology part recently even Pope Francis said in Singapore "All religions are paths to God ... they are like different languages that express the divine". That seems to demote any unique position Christianity and more generally monotheism may have. There was more trade between India and other parts of the world 2000 years ago (e.g. South East Asia, Arabia, Mediterranean) than there was in Roman Empire. Roman records lamenting the extreme trade imbalance with India are still extant. That seems to diminish your point about Roman Empire. Finally, why should God be a He? Why should God's word only get revealed through male prophets as is the case in all Abrahamic traditions? Makes you wonder how universal the theological message is! Why is God still creating non Christians in this world, even though his Son has come and gone?
@@pradipamahadeva8051 hes literally right though. Outside of weird Cults like jehovahs witness and mormons, the avg christian has no interest in converting you. Christianity has existed in India for 2000 years, starting with st. Thomas and in a very big way since the 1300s with the rise of the nestorian Church. Yet if you discount the northeast, the percentage of christians is around 0.5%. Today the population of Christians in kerela ( where it started) is in the reverse. Yet you feel threathened by us. Imagine what we feel, when we are villanized by 80% of the population. 80% getting scared of 2%, talk abt victim complex.
Christ had a kingdom? Anyways, he had a kingdom and the religion is not political or was he a dictator.. so many questions. Why don’t you just mind your own business and not comment on other religion.
Yup, Christ might have said that but there were many Christian rulers starting with Constantine who used their political power to help spread the religion. European history is replete with examples of Christianity as a political tool. Go read , enlighten yourself.
Spiritual marketplace! refers to the contemporary environment where individuals actively seek and choose from a diverse range of spiritual beliefs, practices, and communities, often outside traditional religious institutions Versus the Spiritual capitalism of today, which is an oxymoron!
Just search in Google: Who owns most land in india after Government Result: Catholic Church of India has 17 crores 29 lakhs of acres thru Indian church act 1927 by British Colonialism. Changanassery SB college,Aluva UC college,etc.are examples of free gifts from British to their faith. The gifting of free land can be given to Dharmasthans, Devasthans and Devaswoms too if Britain had no such intentions.
The British, unlike the Portuguese were not that much into spreading of Christianity, their support for missionaries in India was very light. Indeed the early English East India Company even banned missionaries to land in their part of India. Which us why missionaries like Carey had to land in Danish parts of India.
Only later did the East India Company directors come to the decision that since Indians are human beings like the British, they have the right to listen to words of the Lord. Only then missionaries were allowed in but even after that British Government (both the East India Company Government or the later British Raj Government) support for missionaries was very limited....
western societies are more feudal and have bigger problems than caste system in india ,by 1857 left wing ideologies started sweeping europe already marx was at his peak. In india we atleast have checks and balances in the form of budhism,jainism ,shaivism ,chrvaka to counter feudal corruption in west there is no such thing. Only alternative to christianity is complete bloody rebellian in the fomr of marxism. COming to your question ,British by 1850s were already significantly influenced by leftist ideas in the form of hegel, marx. they were lesss interested in bringing christianity and more intersted in destroying hinduism .Its only after independence we see christianity used as a weapon by Left . During british rule christianisation was never a political weapon of left wing idealogies. Its mostly the deep state post independence which weaponised/wokedup christianty.
@jzzquant No society on planet Earth, ( and many had caste systems) came close to the ruthlessness and discrimination of the caste system of India, Ambedkar has made a deep analysis of comparative systems. Next, no the British in the 1700s and 1800s were not influenced by Marx or Hegel, this process of Marx becoming popular among the British elite started in the early 1900s. Marxism was a rebellion against the merchant class who had earlier rebelled against feudalism in movements like the French Revolution or classical Liberalism, so it was a revolution against earlier revolutionaries. Marx was against all religions, not just Christianity, he was of Jewish heritage.
The ideology driving British Empire in India was more Classical Liberalism (Whigs) than Christianity....
The British Empire in India and say the Dutch Empire in Indonesia was more about preservation of global trading interests (against enemy European powers and later the USA and Japanese Empire), than religion. Religion (Christianity) was secondary concern. This is different than the Portuguese or Spanish Empires.
@@mudra5114 There has been so systematic analysis quantiatvely f feaudal systems ever done by anyone , qualitateively ya everyone has an opinion, the closest we got is of gini coefficient as the only reliable metric across countries:
ferdi.fr/dl/df-3ccxatVX4ED68ofXBfvLpFs4/ferdi-p25-average-income-inequality-between-countries-1700-2030.pdf
and gini coefficient analysis clearly suggests income inequality only starts riising between countries after 18th century, it was pretty much the same across world before that.
@@mudra5114 you are repeating the lies and forced re-education of the British and missionaries. Please read Dhrampal's book "The Beautiful Tree" where there are even official surveys by British officers. There was not a single reference on caste Gurukula before 1835. In 1835 Macaulay laid down his policy of giving an English education to Indians in the English Education Act, 1835. That was when Indian education system was dismantled and missionaries entered the education system and lies started to be systematically plated.
@@mudra5114 Caste is a word that comes from Castas a Portuguese word. The rigid caste system is of European origin and was imported into India. A large part of rigidity of the caste system comes from the monopoly of Church over god.
notice how this book and talk pointedly avoid talking about Islam and its impact on Hinduism. Shows you their politics. Islam basically did far worse than European Christianity, but nobody has the guts to analyze.
It is focusing on the time period where Islam was not in power, but Europeans were.
Bhai sab ek book me nahi aata
@B14cksun lol that's my point. The roots of modern Hindu identity/Hindutva predate European colonialism rule. But we're happy to dish it out about European Christianity because they're a less contentious target 😄
@B14cksun yes, genius, we all got that. The point is the Hindutva identity predates the European colonialism period (eg. Shivaji, Aurangzeb etc).
WhatsApp gyani spotted
I'm Christian i have read missionaries biographies, British never had this mindset to spread Christianity in India. Their only aim is trade and run the company in India. It is missionaries whom voluntarily left the country sold all their properties to come to India at their own risks. Unfortunately there is lot of misinformation about missionaries which leads in gratitude towards their life sacrificing deeds.
East India company coming to India was for the same reason Amazon came to India or Adani went to Kenya..to make money that was the main goal. And missionaries were a threat to that goal.
Hello Jason, you are wrong on multiple levels. Even the British will not agree to what you just said!
@@askyella Yes British liberals wont agree because they have been brainwashed with same marxist history used in India.
Very true brother, many thanks fr voicing out.., missionaries were restricted badly by the British colonizers.. #Having a biblical name doesn't make one Christian..one should walk according words of Christ [Matt 7:21]... Colonizers looted, missionaries sacrificially serviced.., they both have different motives.., Christ's heart is always to serve others, even enemies.. pls dnt misunderstand..🙏🙏
Please read the book “The Missionaries Calculus” authored by Dr. Anil Belvadi, published by Oxford University Press, with foreword by the head of Harvard Divinity School. Documented with writings by the missionaries themselves.
I'm a Hardcore Hindu Nationalist. My Mom beleives in Jesus and keeps a Photo of Jesus in her Pooja Room along with other Hindu Gods. I don't believe in Jesus, But I have no problem with Jesus in our Pooja Room. No one tells her who to worship in our Family, That is the beauty of Hinduism - We embrace all Beleifs and Gods.
Believing in everything is not believing in anything
That's not how the other parties think which is the root cause of the problem.
Right@@abrarnihal_
You aren't hardcore Hindu nationalist then. It doesn't come under that definition. Perhaps simply a modi bhakt
U r a useless Hindu.
Both the dominant Abrahamic religions have vowed to convert 'heathens/kafirs' into their so-called one and only true way. Bharat is an unfinished business for them. Hope the host interviews Dr Koenraad Elst who will give a more complete and truer picture of negationism in India done by Congress/Marxists.
That he won't do
I'm glad Mallus are getting aware against the abrahamwaad
Christianity is not a political religion. My kingdom is not of this world said CHRIST before the ROMAN GOVERNOR.
@johngeevarghese1354 sure, on reality it's completely different.
@johngeevarghese1354 No quarrel with Christ and the message he shared but bishops in India instruct their flock not to vote for BJP.
The anchor is naturally oriented towards a particular position and tried to steer the conversation with Manu in the direction of her desire. But Manu has stood his ground and gave a good account of himself as an unbiased professional historian without so much of an agenda, unlike the anchor.
Confidently presenting ignorance 😢
convert detected 🤡
opinion rejected ❌
Just search in Google:
Who owns most land in india after Government
Result:
Catholic Church of India has 17 crores 29 lakhs of acres thru Indian church act 1927 by British Colonialism.
Changanassery SB college,Aluva UC college,etc.are examples of free gifts from British to their faith.
The gifting of free land can be given to Dharmasthans, Devasthans and Devaswoms too if Britain had no such intentions.
The core belief of Xianity and Islam that a real God will torture in hell the non believers of their books is nonsensical gibberish. Everyone should oppose and expose this toxic gibberish propagated by these two religions.
That is wrong interpretation of christian concept of hell but still it is better than being born a cockroach in next life just for eating beef steak
That is wrong interpretation of Christian concept of Hell. But still it is better than becoming a cockroach in next life just for eating a beef steak.
That is wrong interpretation of Christian concept of Hell. But still it is better than becoming a cockroach in next life just for eating a steak.
@@akhiljames8807 bruh christian god forgives your inhumane sins for converting. A pinned jesus gave you free license to pre paid crimes. Yahowa is a jealous and insecure god. There are so many flaws in this religion
The Hell and Heaven can be considered against the rebirth as an animal if karma is not good. Eventually, the idea is put forward in many differently in different faiths.
And he clearly missed the bloodiest history on Hinduism by muslims for 1000 years.
I think he is basically talking about Christian Missionaries! 🇮🇳♥️🇮🇱
Do you have any evidence for this? If it was really bloody, no Hindu would have been left here
@@Pinku-k4e yes. But the point is why is he only choosing to focus on this period when the issue he's addressing - Hindutva - predates the European period.
@ I can’t say, but they always whitewash the brutal conversions during the Islamic invasions. 🇮🇳♥️🇮🇱
Natuaral.. He is from communist Kerala
We had calls for reforms from long time many sages and hindu intellectuals even in second millennium before British advent have called for reforms and rejected caste discrimination.
That doesn't mean that the British didn't cause reform in 19th century.
Bhakti movement began long back before British rule
@@yj9032no they didn’t - e.g. Maharashtra society is heavily influenced by Bhakti movement of Maharashtra. Saint Tukaram to Saint Janeshwar all happened in medieval times of India way before Christian missionary arrived here. Similar was for Tamil Bhakti movement also.
It was just reactionary elements like Rajarammohan Roy and few others in Bengal who tried to imitate British missionaries to reform Hinduism through attempts of Samaj n all- which all failed eventually I must say. Intresting thing is Abrahamic religions who are last to accept reform are tagged as reason of reform in east Asian and south Asian religions - that’s so stupid and ignorant
@@yj9032. They destroyed rather than reformed. 🇮🇳♥️🇮🇱
Yet you stil practice casteism in North India.
“Are Hindus resilient or victims” what a dumb question!
These clowns are just suicidal losers who have coping theory for the endless failures they have achieved in the past 1000 years, lmao
It's like she didn't understand the book
I like Rama Lakshmi's style of interview.
Hinduism is really resilient. Just take a look at South America and Africa. Consequent to western colonialisation how many indigenous religions are still alive there? None, mostly. Now look at India today.
It took people like Shankaracharya to unite save sanatana dharma. It just didn’t happen so don’t take the “resilience” for granted.
@@nabhinayyamunite?...india was never United nor now and I don't think ever will be in future because people here having rotten mindset of caste, religion,race, region, colour etc
Complacency is very bas thing. Barbarians are still among us to harm us
Not so. look at Pakistan and Bangladesh. If you guys were resilient then how did these guys get converted? You guys almost got extinct. If it was not because of the British strong hand India would have been one big Pakistan. Truth is it was the missionary's idea for India to be independent which was against the will of the company and that's what they put a ban on the export of missionary's so they had to come from different routes.
Why nobody is talking about the *nazranis* - Christians from 1st century, even before Christianity reached Europe.
The Jewish (traders) were present in most of the major PORTS in our side. There are many Christians who are still following that teaching. Yes, Portuguese and European pushed the teaching in a different pace .
We all are evolving.
Just search in Google:
Who owns most land in india after Government
Result:
Catholic Church of India has 17 crores 29 lakhs of acres thru Indian church act 1927 by British Colonialism.
Changanassery SB college,Aluva UC college,etc.are examples of free gifts from British to their faith.
The gifting of free land can be given to Dharmasthans, Devasthans and Devaswoms too if Britain had no such intentions.
Who is running india as a narco terror hub for wahabbis..
Gogole : doval sons saudi cayman islands.
Utube : ntt manipur druglord brinda asp
Utube : newslaundry manipur CM druglord brinda asp
US will invade mexico for drug smuggling ..when that happesn this will give a precedene for US to invade other narco terror hubs ..
Bro hindutva without islam invasion is half baked
"Hindutva" did not exist when mughals invaded!
Hindutva is a new concept cooked up by genocidal crooks in RSS terror dungeons.
Just another millionth changes to suit an upper caste design for society they want to rule.
@@adwianyathen what was Pushymitra shunga did in past then?...he was also kattar hindu and he rejected other religion ideologies 🤷♂️....don't put yourself as an innocent because your mindset is the real reason why hindus beaten in foreign countries everyday...you illiterate claims this and they have to suffer there,even you abuse foreigners on comments so they don't like People like you and they think all hindus are like you so they Discriminate others otherwise before this ideology became famous everything was right in foreign countries
@@adwianyacoz bramins and kshatriyyas always had position in mughal temple
Even tipu had bunch of bramins
Muslim and hindu rulers were cruel and exploitstive against poor lower caste people they never got represented in courts
The Indian society has been blessed with eras of Reforms
Be it Buddha or Mahavir
Nanak, Kabir, Mahaprabhu
Or Ram Mohun Roy, Phule, Ambedkar
And arya samaaj, adi shankaracharya, ramanujacharya, as well.
Periyar.
@@darshandhawan5923 several
Every region has their own reformers
@@PeepingTom-xy9di the deformer
@@darshandhawan5923can't say about Adi Shankaracharya because he was kattar hindu and most kattar hindus are like Casteists....that's the reason people respect Swami Vivekananda, Dayanand Saraswati Ji etc not these Shankaracharya or any other hindus 🤷♂️
If you want to be hindu then be like swami ji otherwise don't call yourself hindu because you're spoiling name of Hinduism by this way on global level.....attack on hindus increased since past few years and reason is i already gave you
True to the channel, ThePrint’s philosophy of being controversial, started with calling his work “controversial”
Gita becomes the Handbook text of Hinduism 🕉️ 22:30
English language 24:20
Why can't resilient people not have a chance to genuinely discuss how they were brutalized but still persisted?
Many native faiths and practices from all over South America failed to Abhramics. The entire North and East Africa surrendered to sex slave trader Mohamad, who invented Arab imperialism. The entire Asia, east of the Saudi peninsula, from Egypt to Uzbekistan, surrendered to Arab imperialism. But one faith, Sanatan Dharm, and its people endlessly fought both varieties' of Abhramic imperialism. They lost many times. But they did not totally surrender, unlike natives of South America, Africa, and North Asia. Today people in Uzbekistan have no clue who they were 2000 years ago. What was their way of looking at the purpose of life? What big questions did their ancestors ask? They just surrendered to Arabic imperialism. Today people of Pakistan are happy to be the progeny of "ma-malkat-maaima-nukum" women.
If you think Hinduism has not changed in the last 3000 years you have not read history. How come the harappans were not worshipping any of the Gods we see today? Why the adivasis dont believe in Karma? How come Vedas encourage animal sacrifice but today most Hindus dont do it? You have also changed your beliefs just like others ..humanity has evolved . Stop acting as if your religion is unchanged as if its immune to everything else. Christianity and Islam were natural progression from polytheism in the evolution of religion. Also there are some arguments that oldest african religions were monotheistic before getting corrupted.
Interesting talk. Some points:
- they seem to suggest that Hinduism isn't as diverse and diffuse as it used to be, and that Hindutva is somehow limiting and reducing its diversity and openness. We don't see it that way. We see Hindutva as the externally-oriented carapace protecting this basic unchanged core of Hinduism. All that's changed is that Hindus have developed tooth and talon with which to fight back.
- notice how this book and talk pointedly avoid talking about Islam and its impact on Hinduism. Shows you their politics. Islam basically did far worse than European Christianity, but nobody has the guts to analyze.
- and they seem to be fine with Hinduism remaining defensive and under siege, but not with going on the offensive to spread itself. Why should we have to be the ones being on the defensive from constant attacks? Why shouldn't we take the fight to the enemy? Why shouldn't we spread our culture? We too have great things to teach the world. Why should we let only the paranoid and intolerant desert cults dominate and rule the world? Somehow they're okay with Christianity and Islam exhibiting tribalism and xenophobia and they don't criticize that, but if Hindus do it for the sake of survival, it's BAAAD.
- also, identities evolve all the time. Hindutva is a part of a process of modernization. I see nothing wrong or alien about that.
- what Hindutva is basically doing is borrowing from the playbook of Christians and Muslims and deploying their own tactics against them, beating them at their own game. It is an immune response to the infection. If the infection goes away, then the immune response will too.
- good to see Manu sidestep and carefully handle some of the host's leading questions. She certainly had an agenda she was pushing.
because ppl expect better from Hindus. Hindutva is basically the islamisation of Hinduism lol. Youve become the very thing you hate.
What a beautiful time for this discussion specifically with the rise of right globally. I was raised catholic and have always criticised christianity specifically during the previous govt. I find his work incredibly thought provoking and intellectually honest. Will be reading more. I love how he created an image of how the Hindu intellectual and missionaries debated, and the political incoming of christianity. Wonderful.
GOOD... He is very clear and convinced...
I wrote an article in 2000 from a Christian perspective titles, ‘Hindu fundamentalism and Christian Response’ reaching nearly the same conclusion. If you google, you can find my article. Thesis of my article was that Christian exclusivist led to Hindu renaissance and calling Christian to be more inclusive.
Christianity and Islam are exclusivist religions. One God, one book, one path to divinity. How can they be inclusive? Do you ask them to rewrite Bible and Koran which are God’s words -immutable ? And if you do aren’t you labeled as heretical or blasphemous?
@@dchakraborty4901 Unlike Judaism and Christianity, Islam atleast speaks about justice and fairness for unbelievers living in Muslim nations.
@dchakrabkrty: No casteism and they treat their women better.
@@tylerdavidson2400 what is the relevance? Talking about exclusivism in response to the post. No religion is kind to women, although all adherents claim superiority compare with reference to others - who is less misogynistic is the competition.
Well your conclusion is questionable
Christianity and inclusive?
Hinduism and not inclusive?
😂😂
Excellent discussion. As much as I could make out from the discussion, it seems cogent and sober representation of something Hindus have been trying to put across, on proselytization, on being open to new ideas, on Hinduism being decrntralized tradition.
The "threat" to him comes more from the likes of The Print for what he has said is contrary to the Nehruvian Romila Thapar Irfan Habib narrative on India and Hindus.
Many of the missionaries active in South India were German nationals, Britain and Germany were long-time rivals. British considered them as enemies and even persecuted them
Just search in Google:
Who owns most land in india after Government
Result:
Catholic Church of India has 17 crores 29 lakhs of acres thru Indian church act 1927 by British Colonialism.
Changanassery SB college,Aluva UC college,etc.are examples of free gifts from British to their faith.
The gifting of free land can be given to Dharmasthans, Devasthans and Devaswoms too if Britain had no such intentions.
Thanks for this great conversation. Much learning from this
Very articulate and logical.
She's not talking about Christianism.
Hindu came to life due to british rule..
Protecting god differ from serving god...i am right😊
God doesn't need any service as such. The indic faith mostly focuses on self-realization. Hence, u won't see Political commentary or talks of Proselytization of other faiths in Jain, Hindu, or Sikh temples. However, the Friday prayers and Sunday masses stress the importance of unified political choice, and the ways to bring as many people as possible into their way of life. They even collect a set percentage of fees ( Thites & Zakat)...
@@FreddieMurphy746Iskon would like to differ..they do street evangelization here in Europe trying to attract foreign converts
@@akhiljames8807 They aren't considered Sanatan as they are the first who tried Abramaisation of Indic values
@@akhiljames8807 Iskon never insult another religion they just saying read the Gita and customer have to pay for that where as Islam and chritantiy tell people to baptize or take shadad so no they are not same
Author has his views, but being from southern end, hope his next book will touch upon Nazrani Christians living here from 1st century ( CE)
in most of biographies of freedom movement like gandhi etc except nehru we find that missionaries abusing the hindu gods laughing at krishna and gopis etc but at no time did the hindus question the illegitimate birth of jesus mainly because sanyassis are forbidden to speak bad language .people obeyed the religious leaders like swami vivekananda who never spoke bad about any faith islam or catholicism even though both were temple breakers .
very true. We believe that all path leads to go. They beleive only their path leads to god.
@piyalibanerjee5445 true .such dark convictions always was led by a bloodbath everywhere they went .
@@piyalibanerjee5445 There are serious issues with the statement 'All paths lead to God'.
Would aztec priests sacrificing children on the altar to please their God also be accepted in Hinduism? Would raping women in temples to please God be accepted? Would human sacrifices done by some tantric practicioners lead to God? No right so dont say all paths lead to God. Only the righteous, virtuous and truthful paths lead to God. Any other way is to be thrown away, it is from the devil. Christianity believes that morality is objective and not subjective. So there are 'ways' that humans can develop for selfish interests that are strictly a no go.
there is a tendency to drag every historian to a squabble and label him woke thereby anti Hindu...Manu is head and shoulder above this fray.
Why are his books not available in Audible, whereas even Darlymple's recent book gets prime of place is a patent bias
Larger awareness required ❤
The English educated interpretation is so entrenched, it seems inextricable. Without understanding Sanskrit and without being able to dig into the scriptures and find its meaning, you really should refrain from such comparative studies. I am not sure who this bloke is or that he knows Sanskrit. He sounds like the typical English educated fellow that is trying to find his identity from a western lens.
Manu Pillai is interesting to listen to as it is to read his books
Whenever any asur came to earth they did same thing like don't pray to this devata or devi , looted etc same pattern, if you know hindu history it's all same, they came we fought with the help of devi ,devata we defeated them
This video just proves, that some people are non stop liars. They just keep on doing it.
Among the colonizing powers, the British were the most civilized and India got REALLY lucky. There would have been multiple genocides if the Portuguese, Belgians , Germans or the French were in power. All other European powers were FAR more malevolent than the British (who actually had an element of benevolence and justice in them). This is not to discount the atrocities that happened under the Brits. That happens is all forms of colonialism.
Romans are the more civilized , British got civilization from rome France and German and Dutch , native brittons had no civilization
Even though atrocities get the most attention, it is the slow strangulation by colonialism that is more damaging. Like siphoning off all the wealth, destroying indigenous industries, preventing modern industries getting established and not providing education to the population (not to mention the divide and rule policy). British were very good at this, and India has not fully recovered from the destruction caused by colonialism. China has smartly recovered more or less.
@@tellsparck china didn't recover it became low wage worker for the west
@@Mathewsdc192 You haven't updated yourselves since the 2000s. China's nominal per capita GDP is ~12k and based on PPP is 26K. Isn't that a recovery, and it is still growing pretty fast and is a leader in high tech in many fields.
@@tellsparck it will not grow Any more , china s per now simmikar to Mexico and south America , Mexico and Brazil is the first choice now , India has cheap worker but factory work is considered of low social status so India is lagging behind
bro.. Endorsing hindutva with anti-christian slogans won't work out to a larger extent unlike Anti-muslim propaganda.. The world has changed a lot .. Try to imbibe the right perspective😂😂😂😂
Says who? The indian are literally understnding the abhrahamic religions and are turning more right wing! Keep laughing christian sheep 😂😂
Says who? The indian are literally understnding the abhrahamic religions and are turning more right wing! Keep laughing christian sheep 😂😂
Just search in Google:
Who owns most land in india after Government
Result:
Catholic Church of India has 17 crores 29 lakhs of acres thru Indian church act 1927 by British Colonialism.
Changanassery SB college,Aluva UC college,etc.are examples of free gifts from British to their faith.
The gifting of free land can be given to Dharmasthans, Devasthans and Devaswoms too if Britain had no such intentions.
There's a reason why the birth place of jesus isn't christian anymore 😂😂
The host forgets that resilence matters in difficult situations only,, a very funny question were we victims or is the story of resilience
Good afternoon to both of you
Why is the Inquisition in Goa ignored?
They have educated and civilized people. You will say this now after travelling a long way from.
when did being resilient and being victim become mutually exclusive?
Is the interviewer biased and trying to push a narrative?
Victimhoodism
In British rule there is no entry to missionary.
Charter act 1813. Go back to school.
Missionaries had done more good things to India than bad thing. Gave food and medicine, education and clothing. They developed the local languages and grammar. They started printing technology and books.
Mr Manu wants to look more on the possible less dark side of Hindu - Christian relationship. So he chose to avoid Islam. Unlike Islam Christianity never teaches to kill idol worshippers or non belivers.
The very basics question one need to ask him or her self is weather the religion that he or dhe is following is from God or not. If it is not then you got to move on to find answers elsewhere. You just dont stay in the same place and be happy with what ever we have even if it not true. Hinduism is just happy with what ever they have with out even enquiring weather it is from the actual God. How to judge which one is correct or atleast close to being true. When Hinduism was debated in Britishers times one of the problem that was identified in Hinduism was self contradiction which make it unreliable. It brakes the law of logic. You cannot build a just structure on the basis of it. Thats why even the suprime court declared it a way of life. Cause you can't fit it into a religion category so you can't frame laws on the bases of it. This gentleman is very cleverly puting his view out with out giving their side of the argument. I dont think he even understand the psychology behind religion.
@@sanman8530 what makes a religion true or false? Abrahamic religions say some special person said something and it is recorded in one particular book and that alone is true and everyone should believe it , if not, we will force you to believe it by pen, guile or sword or guns.
Hinduism says truth is not the monopoly of any one religion. True Religion is available to all those who sincerely want to reach the Divine “The Truth is One, people worship it by different names”. We accept all the Abrahamic faiths and other religions as different paths when followed sincerely will lead to the same goal as any of the practices of Hinduism. Without that kind of broad mindedness (catholicism) the world will be full of strife between religions. If we claim any special place at all it is that we are one of the few religions who not merely tolerate other religions but truly accept them as alternate but equally true paths to the divine.
@@maheshjambardi771dear sir, one religion says Love thy neighbour and the other one say eat thy neighbour. They both can't coexist together cause one will devour the other. If you think Hinduism believe in coexist then you are misinformed. Then you have not read the Vedas and the shastras. Brahma Purana 106.121 “There is a hell named Gudapaka. It is full of boiling eddies of treacle and molasses. A man responsible for the mixture in castes is thrown into it. He is burnt therein.” we all know what happened in kumba ko mela where shavites fought against vasnavites. I just gave you only two example. If you need I can give you hundred of references about how Hinduism is not what you think it is. It couldn't fit in lower caste forget about coexistence. And to answer your question regarding which religion is true or false is to do critical thinking and some deductive reasoning. Sir truth is not truth if it is true for you and not for me. Law of gravity doesn't work differently for you. You don't fall up and I fall down. Same way truth is same for both of us. Logic says the whole creation looks designed by and intelligent source or creator. Looking at the creations we can make few intelligent guesses about what a creator could possibly be. One of the key features of the creator is certainly a personal being with a personal interest in what he created. A glo😢bal God and not a regional God with only interest in one particular cast. Hindus are far far behind in religious studies. You don't understand the psychology behind religion.
Very interesting view point, albeit a deviant one from conventionally held notions about the tense confrontation between these two religions and their different worldviews.
I fully agree with Manu that history is fluid and always in need of new interpretation, particularly as new evidence emerges.
Interestingly (and ironically) enough it is only in the last two decades that so much interest in Indian history has been generated.
This period, for better or worse, coincides with the rise of the political right.
It saw the blossoming of a whole new community of Indian history writers, (manu being one among them) who took it upon themselves to look deeply into aspects of Indian history that had never been part of the dominant narrative in the text books that generations of post independence Indians were brought up on, not knowing anything other or different.
I'm deeply grateful for this newly found renaissance of Indian history and history writing.
While I understand the dance (delicate and macabre at times) that went on between Christianity and Hinduism during the colonial period in India (as this book suggests), no mention whatsoever is made (at least not in this talk) about the conversions that took place under Islamic rule, which prevailed for about half a millennium before European colonial rule in India.
It was a totally different form of conversion , or so we have been given to believe ; one that was for the most part stridently insistent and violent in its enforcement, which included the state sanctioned destruction of Hindu temples.
In this it was very different in nature and expression from that of the conversion agendas of Christian missionaries in India.
It would be interesting to know what sort of devices Hinduism employed to protect itself from Islamic religious pressures aimed at conversion, and how these responses may have succeeded in strengthening it in ways we are not aware of.
Waiting for a book on this by someone someday `~
World with out any religion might be a peaceful world
Why Rama Lakshmi looking agitated n angry ?
She is projecting Brahmin disdain 😂. A peculiar and odd suppression of secret fascination
Christianity, missionaries was not backed by forces of Europe
Not really convinced😮
But shall check it out sometimes🎉
This whole discussion was just a waste of time. I will not get back 39 minutes.
Why?
@@stuv_wxhe knows that this is a biased communist historian talk
How Christians are made to become Hindus in the garb of gurus?
Just search in Google:
Who owns most land in india after Government
Result:
Catholic Church of India has 17 crores 29 lakhs of acres thru Indian church act 1927 by British Colonialism.
Changanassery SB college,Aluva UC college,etc.are examples of free gifts from British to their faith.
The gifting of free land can be given to Dharmasthans, Devasthans and Devaswoms too if Britain had no such intentions.
Thank you for the excellent presentation on looking at things from a contemporary perspective. Normally one ought to look at both sides of the argument, here you yourself are giving a favorable version for your narrative. A small thought I wish to highlight is primarily the book deals with colonial Christian's history and their influence on our nation. ( There are people who think buddist muslims and Christian's are not part of this nation. But they can have this narrative only outside Punjab.)
How in present day, is it good to speak about, it is safe to speak. When we ask such questions are we enquiring if Christian's will be creating a scene ~ which is unsafe for the author, is in toto not valid. ( Infact muslims will create a ruckus isn't valid either. also till you shake them so badly and they don't have a choice.).
Interestingly THE EXAMPLE QUOTED FOR LACK OF SAFETY WAS a maharashtrian one another faction related to Indian heritage, and nothing related to colonial west or for that matter the islamic rulers.
So the party that is causing trouble is thinking they are in problem by there own kind but blaming other non related entities is the narrative and that ought not to be missed. Eg things do happen like Modi ji being not given Visa by the colonial masters. And India not in a position to do anything much about it, inspite of a NRI becoming a PM in Europe. But at the same time India the Viswaguru not allowing Sonia ji to be a PM in India staring it's not practical. But in the end, the victim is Indian and trouble maker might be a westerners or the islamic invaders and authors might be in danger is mixed up... As it's another non Christian non islamic guy that is causing all the commotion.
It's I will do what I want and the problems that occur are because of my writing. Then I will blame the west, but there is no proof given. At least for contemporary time.
Grahm Staines a Australian missionary was burnt alive with his two kids in Mayurbhanj our Honorable President Draupadi Marmus constituency.
Similarly more than 470+ churches were burnt in Manipur, if we include the house churches where people met in houses the number easily crosses 500+, a muslim man. Who does business in Manipur enquired, oh you "Christian's are non violent people". He couldn't believe after all this happened, how the Christian's restrained themselves. But it's Hindu is in kathrae danger is the narrative.
What we need to understand is in Ramayana Ram killed Ravana to bring Sita ji back. In Mahabharata Pandavas fought the kauravas, all the dieties that came annihilated evil, so where is the practice of non violence and restraint. There is no place in scriptures for that(?). I suspect this could have been a element of buddism that the Indian culture borrowed before annihilating it in toto.
A brain ~planner, a financer and muscle is the core team. A small fraction focussing on creating ruckus. But Indian beef exports touch the highest globally we can check the top ten exporters. It's a smart political mobilization by a small lobby.
The way the cow protection gang resigned after the cow vigilante leader was arrested, same is the future of these vigilantes. In India there are no u Christian's or Muslim vigilantes.
Everybody took the European ideas, Arab Ba'ath parties, Bengal Hindu reform, Ata Turk, Rabindranath Tagore, Chinese Mao in France, Muslim Spain...
But research it, they selectively solved some BLOOD flowing problems (example the rule of law), not the everything.
Working models (technology) was just a necessity.
Even Before Christ, Mauriyan kings said to then Old Persian (not the Aryans or Iranians) Zoroastrians, "do not proselytize us, we allow you only on this condition". But the Education & scholarship of debates indeed created the "Aryan (teacher) or Iranian at the borders of Afghanistan, Tajikistan", slightly TILTED towards the Persian understanding (Artha, Sanskrit: अर्थ; Pali: Attha) called the #Sanskrit.
But all the way the original understandings also embeded in the multiple meanings of the word.
Hinduism content in karma theory needed a healthy dose of christianity (influence) to discover/rediscover humanitarian response to poverty, sickness and the wretched❤
❤ hallelujah ❤
Did we have a religion or a Dhrama which is a set of values that are eternal (Sanatan) and to be practiced against all odds?
Looks like you are neither a Bharat nor a pandit😂
Yes Buddhism
It is infact a better time to come up with new interpretations and ideas. The right fit the first time is getting space to present it's study , ideas and views. Earlier they were simply cancelled and blanked out. They were never even be invited to the Indian literary congregations. Imagine ! And they still called themselves 'liberal', scholarly , academics 😮!
No one can be converted to Christianity. It is a personal decision and a relationship between an individual and Christ Jesus who died for the sins of every person on earth. ✝️🙏🏻 John 3:16
Not true
Native Americans were forcefully converted to Christianity. Millions were massacred.
We all know what happened to Native Americans
@@TarekRamaraNative Americans are still part of America. Colonialism isn't Christianity just as Raping and female infanticide isn't Hinduism.
Why fabricate English , if you want to quote jesus or John? give the original verse in the original language and then give the english translation , you cant live through anybody other than yourself , otherwise you going to be exploited , robbed and enslaved.
This is a brahmin view point by brahmin for brahmin.
Not really. Step out of your echo chamber.
Crucifixion - Rig Veda 10:90:7
6:15 yall that's the hill station 😭 tf is Your editor doing
Read two books written by Manu.I think he has a soft corner for Brits and muzzies.But interesting author.
Disinformation disinformation disinformation from print, manu keep it up 😂 vande Mataram
Why hot button issue??
A good way of putting your points as Manu does here...a better manner to interpret historical facts. Thank you both and The Print.
He is making mistakes in every sentence. I dont know where to even begin. Please debate this with shakshi apologetics live so every thing will be crystal clear. Another attempt to brainwash Indians.
Hmm, if an average Hindu is compared against a murderer who's is Christian in terms of actions, that's a BIGOT! This guy has does not provide a balanced narrative but a biased one, and not ashamed to manipulate and lie. Shameful guys
I hope your book includes AMY CARMICHAEL, MOTHER TERESA, DAVID LIVINGSTONE IN AFRICA, WILLIAM WILBERFORCE BRITISH PARLIAMENTARIAN OF THE CLAPHAM SECT AND SCORES OF OTHERS WHO FOUGHT AGAINST WESTERN SECULARISTS MASQUERADING AS CHRISTIANS. BUT for christian missionaries we would be slaves of brahmins still and there would be still the queer marriage customs in our native KERALA.
Slaves of Brahmins 😂😂😂 Queer marriage customs 😂😂😂 you may kiss your bride as the bride is pregnant or with the kids 😂😂😂😂
Your ancestors may have been slaves of Brahmins. None of ours were.
Mother Theresa was a monster. Offering the poor succour in return for conversion is a disgusting practise..only you christians think it's a wonderful thing to rob people first, reduce them to poverty and then convert them to your piece of shit religion
What do you say about 60+M natives were killed in the Americas, plus more in Africa, Australia, New Zealand! Christianity has never reformed from idea they are superior to all and therefore a brown, non-Christian are bottom of societal structure. Even forcibly converted natives in the west are treated worse than beasts. Hinduism has evolved and always does to modern times where tribals or oppressed communities can be in positions of power whereas nothing of this sort in the West nor will it happen! Christianity still condones racism, gender, patriarchal control of everyone else!
Great, same colonial propogonda showing brahminsa as monsters to destroy local culture still shows how Hindus are resilient and tolerant still living peacefully amongst colonial brain washers like you.
There is Hindu doctor in Karnataka who gave crores of his own land freely for schools. Did operations to poor . And I can give so many examples. Only thing is the west only propogates mother Theresa and people like her who has nothing to give and undermine local people who do good. This itself is colonialism. There hundreds of mother Theresa in Hinduism who don't project and go behind media and noble prizes or given space by westerners
Voltaire was an atheist!
Free India had a glorious tradition of leftist historians building their political bias, feeding on public money. If that academic achievement is something this guest is proud of, then one can very well understand the bias behind his work
exactly. This guy is just writing book based on his dogmatic views and not scientific research.
The very English that they speak is from British 😂😂😂
No shiet
@@Urvashisth It looks like Shakha English - wrong spelling :-)
😍👍
You mean suspected PRonographic WRITINGS Exploitation even being colonial slavery????? Ever COLLABORATION with. ;; with due respect?
PLEASE LISTEN LATEST FROM SUPREME COURT RT. JUSTICE. ; KATJU JI; FACTUALITY MR ????
ENOUGH OF KHEEER FREEEEEBEEEEES? MAANU ?
What is "Hindutva"?
Response to abrahmic atrocities
Well SA
Pillai finally has sold out his soul.
Now it is play with the fascist time to bring out the “hurt hindu”
What Hindu are you talking about Manu? Brahmin right ?
Also the way you use the word “attack” is really out of place when you yourself say there was not a lot of conversion at the end.
What u talking about? Victims of Colonialism were from all sectors of society... why this hate for Brahmins? Oh yes that's what colonial education though u to hate while whitewash colonial crimes
@ oh we have a lot to talk about - who were these so called “Hindus “ Manu is mentioning - the people who wee being “attacked” ?
@@Perumanian thats just a subproduct of colonial education in justify foreign rule and blame social issues at local traditions... brahmins were more attacked for uphold the religion traditions as a way of living but all society suffered under colonial rule wich can equate to slavery genocide and eugenics based on religious and racial Supremacy of colonial masters. But yet u want repeat they're narrative that local religious people that oppressed others not the invader rulers.
Superb discussion...one point is that Jesus didn't come to the Europeans, he came to the Israeli people...this is where God appeared as a man, which was predicted centuries before...also one of his disciples St.Thomas came to India to give the great news, centuries before the Portuguese. Pls ponder on all these finer points...and read more...
yes on this earth god always appeared thorugh man and also always spoke only to men and especially Arab men. And yes that book which predicted god's son to come to earth also said that solar system is earth centric and was created some 4000 years before Jesos sets foot on earth. God seems not to know his own creations!!!!!
@@piyalibanerjee5445 Bible is not a scientific book,it is a theological book. It does not tell the age of the universe but why the universe was created.
Roman empire was the centre of the trade route when Christ came and Israel had strict monotheism being followed before Christ. So God came to right place for all humanity.
@@akhiljames8807 It seems that you are disregarding Genesis and older parts of the Bible that talk of creation and cosmology. If so, that is good. For the theology part recently even Pope Francis said in Singapore "All religions are paths to God ... they are like different languages that express the divine". That seems to demote any unique position Christianity and more generally monotheism may have. There was more trade between India and other parts of the world 2000 years ago (e.g. South East Asia, Arabia, Mediterranean) than there was in Roman Empire. Roman records lamenting the extreme trade imbalance with India are still extant. That seems to diminish your point about Roman Empire. Finally, why should God be a He? Why should God's word only get revealed through male prophets as is the case in all Abrahamic traditions? Makes you wonder how universal the theological message is! Why is God still creating non Christians in this world, even though his Son has come and gone?
CHRISTIANITY IS NOT A POLITICAL RELIGION. CHRIST SAID MY KINGDOM IS NOT OF THIS WORLD before the ROMAN GOVERNOR.
Delusions are rife!
@@pradipamahadeva8051 hes literally right though. Outside of weird Cults like jehovahs witness and mormons, the avg christian has no interest in converting you. Christianity has existed in India for 2000 years, starting with st. Thomas and in a very big way since the 1300s with the rise of the nestorian Church. Yet if you discount the northeast, the percentage of christians is around 0.5%. Today the population of Christians in kerela ( where it started) is in the reverse. Yet you feel threathened by us. Imagine what we feel, when we are villanized by 80% of the population.
80% getting scared of 2%, talk abt victim complex.
Christ had a kingdom? Anyways, he had a kingdom and the religion is not political or was he a dictator.. so many questions. Why don’t you just mind your own business and not comment on other religion.
Yup, Christ might have said that but there were many Christian rulers starting with Constantine who used their political power to help spread the religion. European history is replete with examples of Christianity as a political tool. Go read , enlighten yourself.
True christianity died after the constantine reforms.
He seem to know very little about Christianity or it's history. It would be best if he sticks to what he knows, otherwise would come across as a fraud
Are you getting triggered by the truth
@Spr-no9oy which truth?
Hindu bashing is a dhandha of the scoundrels.
Comical nonsense.
aree 'abraham'-waad se azzadi
Deus vult
Now they are with British
To hate hindutva 😂😂😂😂
Spiritual marketplace! refers to the contemporary environment where individuals actively seek and choose from a diverse range of spiritual beliefs, practices, and communities, often outside traditional religious institutions Versus the Spiritual capitalism of today, which is an oxymoron!
What are the situations of minorities in India currently ? Just stop this BS...
Why are there minorities in the first place? Invasions/colonization bought minorities into the sub continent.
All minorities are thriving.
islam😂😂😂
Just search in Google:
Who owns most land in india after Government
Result:
Catholic Church of India has 17 crores 29 lakhs of acres thru Indian church act 1927 by British Colonialism.
Changanassery SB college,Aluva UC college,etc.are examples of free gifts from British to their faith.
The gifting of free land can be given to Dharmasthans, Devasthans and Devaswoms too if Britain had no such intentions.