Phil, glad to see you doing so well. Fuji already has an APSC with a stacked sensor. So the big 3 can do it if they wanted to. I think the biggest problem for a stacked sensor in an APSC camera would be the price. The Fuji stacked sensor doesn’t sell near as well as the non stacked version. Congratulations on the New Z8. It looks like a great camera. Your logic for going with the Z8 makes perfect sense to me.
I bought my first ever Nikon (Zf) in March. I was so impressed with the performance, I got the Z8 in July. I'm using a adapted EF mount Sigma 150-600mm HSM Sport lens and Sony primes for now. What really blew me away is the AF is near native speed and accuracy. The Z8 is simply the best hybrid mirror-less camera for the price, on the market right now.
I’m hoping they do a ZFii, with a couple minor improvements everyone complained about: slightly bigger grip, U1/U2/U3 on the dial, a more compact build, + a classic silver option. And where is a 36mpx sensor option like the d800’s had a decade ago? Step it up a little, Nik…
I went with a Z8, too. Love it to pieces. And hey, CF express cards are about to go on major sale for Black Friday in about 8 weeks. There are amazing deals for super fast cards. Last year I got super deals on a Delkin Power 1TB and a Prograde 325 GB. The savings for Black Friday blew my mind. Of course, there's also going to be deals on SD cards. I've had great success with the Lexar 1667x series at both 128GB and 256 GB. They are plenty fast enough for stills. I got the faster CF Express type B cards cuz I like the import speed and possibility of video, but I usually shoot stills, so SD cards work a treat and cost way less.
With the A1 and A9iii you can actually use regular SD cards as well (I’d recommend the UHS-ii V90 cards) and it still works outstandingly. I use the A1 for weddings and wildlife alongside a colleague who uses the Z8 and Z6iii. In most scenarios, the actual autofocus difference between the Z8 and A1 is minor though the Z8 gets confused with backgrounds more and the A1 gets more confused with foregrounds (both instances are occasional) so I’d consider that mostly a push. The A1 does track better but probably not the price difference better if that makes sense. The memory card issue is nothing honestly. I go back and forth between CF Express A cards and UHS-ii SD cards and have no issues with either as both are plenty fast and I’ve never buffered out my A1 on SD cards even but I also don’t just hammer the shutter for no reason.
The 180-600 is one fantastic lens. Coupled with the Z8 is a win win. Just wish this lens was a tad bit lighter but a 600pf would get you the weight savings. Glad you are enjoying the Z8. I love mine and keep learning new ways to use it every week.
I agree, it is a little heavy after getting used to the Canon 100-500 or for you the Nikon F 500 PF. I think I'd be more likely to pick up the 800 PF at some point than the 600 just because the 180-600 is the same aperture at 600. But you are certainly right about the weight.
Awesome video, packed with great logical info. I will be back in Canada next week (Victoria BC) and late Oct (Toronto), plus mid November (St.John's NL) Some great scenery, people and experiences. Hope you also have a wonderful trip.
Thanks for the great video. Would love to hear your ideas comparing the autofocus systems of the Canon R5 (original) and the Nikon Z8 for bird photography.
Thank you! I've never used the original R5 but I have owned the R6 and currently own the R6 Mark II. I'd say the autofocus systems are comparable. Basically, Nikon's bird detect focus system has caught up with Canon with the Z8 and Z9.
Phil, one of the things I like about you is that you will trying anything, you are not brand loyal. You are practicality loyal. Sony went with the Cf-Express type A format to keep the camera size small and the memory card slots support dual functionality of either a Cf-Express type A or a Sd card, which others don't. With other manufacturers, you will get either two CF-Express type B only in both slots at the high-end or a Cf-Express type B in one slot and a Sd card slot in the other slot separately. The design it's crappy, it's practical considering that they wanted to keep the camera size down. I agree with you that the memory card prices for Sony Cf-Express type A is expensive, but when we are talking $3000 to 6500 for a camera body, with your data becoming as important as the camera, it is relative. Relatively expensive that is. This is either an expensive hobby or expensive profession. There are other manufacturers outside of Sony that produce Cf-Express type A cards that are far cheaper in price, like for example Peargear, those cards are 260gb for $179 and 512 for 209 with an additional 10 percent off on the 260gb and 20 percent off on the 512gb. You have Cf-Express from Lexar, Angel Bird, ExAscend, OWC and others. The Angel Bird 330gb is $249, the ExAscend is $499 for a 1tb card. Also have you seen the prices of UHS II 128gb and 256gb cards, they are at Cf Express type A prices almost, but thank god for Kingston and Sabrient. So, there are plenty of deals to be had, but you have to do your research. I'm currently using two of the Peargear 260gbs with no problems for a year now, but I have to agree with you that Cf-Express Type B is still cheaper per gigabyte than Cf-Express Type A. The Nikon Z8 is a great camera and I hope that you are happy with it. Nikon is killing it with their offerings and even better their new lenses. I'm heavily invested in Sony as a business. If Canon had their lens situation straightened out and offered third party full-frame RF glass, I would have bought the Canon R3, because I have shot it and it's great.
Best Wild Life Combo on the Planet >> Z8 and 180-600 .. Its what I use for African Wild Life >> all my life I have used Full frame apart from a 5 month venture with the D500 but was soon back to a D800 then .. Great video Phil
The quality of a 45mp full frame cropped to the equivalent of an APS-C is better than the APS-C crop camera image. See comparison videos of Nikon D500 with identical crop from D850 (45mp). Same is true for Z8 and Z9 of course. But the advantage of full frame is you have more image to crop down from should you need to. So if the bird you are tracking is a bit left or right of center, no problem. But with a crop camera, too bad. The head or tail are cut off. The Z8 bird eye detect and stacked sensor electronic shutter is amazing. Never had any rolling shutter effect on it regardless of shutter speed, pan speed or subject speed. And silent all the time!
Mine arrives next week (I hope), and I cant wait. Coming from a line of Nikon cameras including D40, D40x, D3200 (Wifes camera), D5200 (Lasted 2 weeks), D7000 (Handed down to my son) and now my D800 and D850, I think the Z8 seems to be the next step for me. Thanks for the video! Oh and I am seriously looking at the 180-600 as well, as that is far beyond anything I have for the D850
My first Nikon was a pre-Ai Nikkormat in 1972 and I've stuck with Nikon right to my current Z8 and Zf. I enjoy using old manual focus lenses on the Zf when I'm walking around shooting for fun.
Great choice, I have Z8+800 mm pf and R5+rf100-500. Nikon has the best choice for wildlife lens. A1 don’t have even bird af in video mode. Also z8 have a choice 2.3 crop mode in 4 k. R5 mark 2 have only advantages in sport photography. And maybe little better autofocus. Nikon also improves Z8 by firmware updates and I am sure Z8 becomes even better.
So, which AF system do find easiest to use. I hope to upgrade by the end of this year or before spring 2025 at the latest. Thanks for any replies. & know it makes sense to purchase Nikon to make use of my F-mount lenses but ,,,,
@@thomastuorto9929 Z8 and R5 have incredible autofocus, both of them for me excellent. Z8 has many advantages in sensor, video and lenses. If I choose one camera in present days- my choice will be Z8 .
Received an email from Nikon this morning. Sale is back on. I think it is good business for Nikon to do so as the will sell more lenses & accessories that way. Also the 400 & 800 are back on sale but never the 600pf. Must be way too popular. Also the F-mount super tele lenses have dropped quite a lot & was wondering for some time now if they would ever do so. There must be reason the 600 & 800 F-mount still cost more than the Z of lenses. Wouldn’t mind seeing a real life wildlife comparison of side by side photos from each. When one factors in the PF lens prices from Nikon & the price of the Z8 & it being 95% of the Z9 camera, it is quite a compelling purchase. Probably good for You Tube channel to multi brands also. Enjoy your trips & happy shooting.
I don't remember if you've got the R6 as well, but I just compaared my Z8 + 180-600mm VS the R7 + 200-800mm lens. The results between them are that the R7 combo clearly delivers more detailed images. Not considering obvious other advantages of the Z8 of course. On the other hand, the 180-600mm + tc14 aka 840mm vs the 200-800mm on the R3 is a mixed bag. The Z8 images are higher res, but the R3 images appear sharper in a way.
I was in the same boat as you, I went with the Z8 but got mine second hand for $2700. 180-600mm is an amazing lens. Another reason the Nikon Z setup is nice is due to third party lens. I got the Tamron 35-150mm f2-2.8 Z and the Tamron 150-500mm Z. They are amazing plus the 150-500 is very similar to the canon one. I got mine $900 second hand. It works well to backup the Nikon 800mm Z PF lens I have.
Hi Phil , sounds very good but there is one thing I don't understand is you say you are waiting for the right APSC camera but you can use your Z8 in DX mode , which is what I do when I want more reach, and that is about the same thing and a similar resolution as APSC, and then you can use it in full frame when you want so you will have both options in one camera. Have a great trip to Canada I'm in Alberta, cheers.
Canon is very proud. I got the Z8 for under 3k and it’s just as good as anything Canon or Sony can release. But I do have the A9III, which I also got cheaper. But I can use the Sony lenses on the Z8. I had to sell my OM-1 & 150-400 but I might get that back one day. But as you noted, the Sony lenses are fantastic. But now, Fuji is releasing their 500 5.6 GF lens which is fairly small and lightweight. I’m thinking of getting that lens with the GFX 100SII next year
I actually use A7IV and 200-600, I'd like to upgrade for "life" (or at least to be sure for next 5-6 years with the gear!) to Z8+800 mm f6.3 or OM1-mark II +150-400, which one would be the best for travel photography with your advantage of point of view? I like sunsets, I like sunrises. Wildlife is a priority of course, at the range of 900-1200/1400 mm. Any advice?
@@pentagramyt417 I miss the Olympus and would like to have it back. The 800 pf I thought about for range which would probably be better with the FF sensor for about the same range. Just depends what bag you want to use as the 800 is longer. I’m thinking of the 400 2.8 but it’s heavier and expensive but what isn’t? That 800 pf and z8 seem like the best value for reach that you can get though.
@@davetv8171 Yeah.. Too much of tables, calculating, and at the end just a part of me saying "OM is more fun in all of that". I was talking with one youtuber that review 800 mm f6.3, and I compared those two specification, because what came to my mind is 800 mm f6.3 vs 150-400 f4.5 which makes only 1 EV stop of Depth of Field difference! ONE STOP.. it's not much, especially if you can fill the frame wit 150-400 the background blurr should be fine on F4.5 (F9.0 for fullframe) as on f6.3 for Nikon, not that creamy but probably really good. I would not make a mistake, but seems to me 150-400 + 1.4 tc on the top of that, and you can have MUCH MORE lightweight and cheaper 1400 mm at f8 light. At the same time, you have 1680 mm at 20 mpx DX mode with Z8, but the light is f9. Nikon has 4k120 fps video mode at almost 2000 mm range (over 2.0 crop), and for sure different league comparing to OM System video capabilites, but again overall I think fight between those two, to wildlife is on the side of OM, especially to bad weather. Forgot to say, 400 mm f2.8 is awesome lens from what it is, and very practical.. Especially this from Nikon with TC added.. + Z8 it makes you 3 different focal lengths.. 400 mm, 560 mm with TC and then DX mode to 840 mm.. But the price, ouch.
I've hungered so much for that Z8 & 180-600mm combo. But, as a bird photographer (mostly), I think that 45mp sensor works out at only about 18mp "cropped" equivalent to the R7's 32mp so I suspect the R7 plus the RF 100-500mm will significantly out resolve the Nikon combo for small birds. If Nikon could make us a circa 30mp crop sensor "R7 equivalent" I'd be chasing that 180-600mm so quick. I'd also be hoping for proper raw image pre-capture capability in the Nikon system.
@@derekmidgley it’s more like 19 1/2 megapixels when it is in 1.5 crop mode. But you are right, the R7 has much higher pixel density and I agree that is a legitimate concern for small birds. Take a look at my VERO account for a white eyed vireo photograph I made recently with the Z8 and 180-600 to see what it can do on a tiny bird from around 20 feet.
I do sports, the z8 has some options to have small but good quality raw files for not the commercial sports works but for competitions where I get tons of files? I use 24/26 mpx cameras, and the file size is good compromise for size and quality for postproduction
A very thoughtful video and many good points. A few days ago I was so frustrated with my Z8 and 180600+1.4x that I wanted to sell it. It is so, so heavy (3,3kg) for me as a woman and an office-sitting-person, it hurts my shoulders and back a lot, because I love to walk a lot. With camera :) But when I look at all my pictures (and I changed gear a lot, unfortunately, because I haven't felt comfy with most cameras), the pictures which come out of the Z8 are the best I've yet created. They have a 3d look, a glowing clarity and clean up very nicely. The R7 AF was horrible (for me), I never warmed up to the R6II. But I DO miss the A6700, I loved the combo with the Tamron 150-500 the most, probably because it is a very lightweighted one - BUT the rolling shutter was just dreadful. Next week I'll rent the 200800 and the r8, just to see if it a lighter walkaround combo and if it's better than what I have now. Because then I would have 800mm, a lighter camera and saving 700grams is not something I would pass on. But I guess I can't let go of the superb image quality from the Z8. Sometimes it sucks to have too many choices and we are all very blessed to talk about such privileges in life. Thank you Phil for your kind videos, I'm glad that you are feeling better, you look healthy!
@@Fenrissa you have been through a lot of the same gear as me! if it was me, I would use the Z8 without the tele converter on the 180 to 600. That should save you a little little bit of weight and improve your image quality to a certain extent. Sometimes with a high megapixel camera cropping a little bit is better in terms of image quality than using a tele converter and filling the frame. I would be very surprised if you liked your images better with the 200-800 then the 180-600 . Thanks for the very interesting comment.
@@PhilThach Thank you for answering, Phil! Yes, most of the times, I indeed walk without the TC and it is better to take pictures without it. I'm quite curious about the 200800 but just today I took some beautiful bird images in the garden and I also can't really imagine going back to Canon (right now...an R7 MkII might tempt me again :))
Weight is a consideration for me as well. Heavier gear is just not that enjoyable to me. I shoot the R5 with 100-500. It’s the lens that I’m in love with. There is always something to shoot. Sharp, light, shoots macro type photos and can do some landscape at 100 mm. I’m waiting for the R7ii before I buy anything! I keep thinking I could get more reach in camera!
I still run D500, and I would love to get a new camera with AI subject detection. First one (between Nikon and Canon) to make an actual flagship APSC gets my money for camera and new lenses. I hope Nikon does it, as I have always been a Nikon shooter. If they wait too long, I will get a OM-1 mkii, 150-600, and 12-100. OM1mkii hits all the boxes other than low light. I can get both camera and lens for the price of a Z8/R5mkii body only.
Very nice video. Could not agree more - Anglebird also has a reasonably priced 1 TB card ! Which might be also a good choice since the Z8 has only one CF-Express card slot.
Hello Phil I have the Nikon Z8 and I use this adapter Megadap ETZ21 Pro Sony E-Mount Lens to Nikon Z-Mount Autofocus Adapter and it works just like the native lenses.
OM1 I/II would be a possibility too. Even more crop than apsc, stacked sensor and a workable AF System. Night shots and wide angle are weak points for mft, but for macro and wildlife, i love my om1mk2. I would kill to get a z8 as replacment for the z6 though.
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Very good strategy to have lenses from different brands so that you can just pick up the body that suits your needs. I cannot afford doing that but certainly in the long run, it is worth it instead of moving systems and taking enormous discounts in selling great lenses quite cheap (as it usually goes like that). Enjoy your photography!
Just bought my Z8 two days ago. Expecting it on Thursday. Perfect second camera for my Z9. Now my Zf gets relegated to the shelf and occasional street photography when I don’t feel like shooting film.
The advantage of Canon is the lenses, short and light. The Canon RF 800 mm f/11 I believe is a great lens. With Nikon I have the Z 180-200 lens but with the full-frame camera, it's not the same. Now with the Z8 you can crop a lot and still have a good size image.
I like several of the Canon lenses. I own the 100-500, 800 f/11 and the 200-800. I still think Nikon might have the bird photography lens advantage. For birds, I like the 180-600 better than all three of those and Nikon still has the 600 PF and 800 PF that are expensive but much cheaper than the full exotic telephoto lenses from all three manufacturers. (600 f/4) I do like the Canon 100-500 better than its main competition from Nikon, the 100-400.
Hi Phil, I'm sure you'll enjoy that Angelbird SE 512 Gb card. I have the very same card, and after 2 years, 215k images (& ~ 100 video's) I haven't experienced a single glitch. never even reformatted it. And it costed me then the same as what I paid a year earlier for a V30 SD card with half the capacity and 1/9th of the speed 🙈 Angelbird made me suddenly realize CFxB provides now much more value for money than any SD card (nevermind CFxA). Recently Ordinary Filmmaker showed a new cheaper CFxA from Anglebird .. and it seems a brand different from Sony will soon start using CFxA as well (which would surprise me !) Good to see you're happy with the Z8. It's a great camera indeed! Still, I do feel you ruled out the R5ii a tad too quickly. Yes it's pricy right now, and the sensor is slower than the Z8, but seems still fast enough to avoid rolling shutter and it still offers the option to use MS/EFCS shutters. From what I hear so far the (bird) AF leaves the Nikons behind and the pre-shooting gives raws. The Z8 with the 180-600 and the 1.4x is also significantly heavier and requires the same F10 as the R5 + 200-800 ..
Thank you! That is good to know about your Angelbird card. I won't be using a teleconverter with my Z8 180-600 combo. Also, Who knows, I might pick up an R5 Mark II someday. I didn't buy my D850 until 2024! :)
@@PhilThach hmmm, sooner or later you'll be tempted try an extender on the Nikon combo ;-) I've sometimes used one even on the 200-800. 600mm on the Z8/R5 matches the same amount of pixels on a bird as an 821mm on the R6ii, but it only equals 441mm on the R7. In order to avoid rolling shutter on a small distant bird, you'll want more than 600mm on the Z8. or if you want a small bird 10 yards away to fill the frame .. I told you before I considered waiting for a stacked R7ii, but it seems the stacked R6iii and R7ii will not get the Digic Accelerator, meaning their AF will not keep up with the R5ii ..
If I'm honest, I also thought the readout of the R5 II was a little disappointing at its announcement. But after buying it and using it, I can honestly say it's a non-issue. The R5 II handles humming birds pretty well, and everything slower, perfectly. More importantly, the RAW pre capture is by far the standout feature and is worth the price of admission alone. Nikon has some great high-end lens options, so I can appreciate why people jump.
With your A9iii specs, I would have run to get one ! I eventually got a used A1. The Z8 has everything I need on paper : 2 ways tilting screen, great tele lenses offering. But the AF seems to stay behind according to tests (Fabian Fopp, Jan Wegener). It was the main reason for my frustration with the A7iv. The A1 is still not perfect but a huge improvement and I'm not frustrated any more.
Phil!! I rented the Z6iii and the AF is dismal. I tried not to say that and sound negative. I pared the 180-600 with that body and I like the internal zoom but that is about it. That is not a wildlife set up at least for me. I enjoyed Z8 and 600 PF now that nikon has updated their tracking and focus software for the Z8 & 9. I wish they had put it intthe Z6iii. I think the Sony 200-600mm is a phenomenal lens and works so well on the A6700. For what I like to shoot, the 100-500 is the perfect lens. Fast, sharp and a super short minimum focus distance. I do wish though that Canon had a few other 600mm lenses like the others. Nothing is perfect and we work our styles around the limitations. ❤
Johnny, If you got 29 sharp photos out of thousands like you stated in the comment section of your video I’d say something was severely wrong lol Z6iii is very similar (a hair less competent) to Z8/9 for bird af
@@livejames9374 Lensrentals said everything was in spec so it is either a setting on my part or just not a good lens body paring that works for the way I shoot. The 200-800 and the R7 for me are that way but that is because of the noise. Same with the 800 F11. I prefer those on the full frame bodies. And, maybe I was being too critical. 🤗
The Z8 is an amazing camera but I recently sold mine. For me it just didn't fit my shooting style and didn't have the great AF of my Sony cameras for bird photography. I had a friend that wanted one so I gave her a great deal. I will miss the BIF AF which is class leading. I use the Anglebird cards too and they have been solid and like you said inexpensive. Thanks for the video.
I'm also a Canon shooter and currently have the R6 mk2. I had the chance to borrow a Z8 and 180-600mm Lens but after only 2 weeks I couldn't wait to give it back. All the different Autofocus settings you need to use for Birds, Cats and other Mammals drove me mad. With the Canon its one setting for everything. I'm keen to hear how you get on with the Nikon's AF compared to the Canon's you own..Pleased to see you're back. Take care.
@@martineldridge1319 interesting! I found the autofocus system in the Z8 easier to use because there are more choices in terms of what you wanted to focus on. But I can understand your point.
@@PhilThach Hi Phil, Thanks for your reply. Yes that was the problem, there were too many AF Options. For example, I was photographing some ducks at my local Nature Reserve when a fox appeared from the side. I forgot about changing the AF and missed the shot of the fox as the Z8 refused to lock on the fox, by the time I switched setting the shot was gone. I must admit I loved the 180-600mm Lens
I also own a Z8 and the 180-600mm, great combination. The only thing is I'm struggling with Cfexpress Card Type B. I have a Sandisk Extreme Pro 256gb read 1700mb/s and write 1200mb/s. When I take a burst 20fps losless raw it's stutter within 3 seconds. The Lexar CFexpress Type B Diamond Series read 1750mb/s write 1000mb/s it took 12 seconds before it stutter and 12fps 40 seconds. If sets to 20fps raw high efficiency* you can continuous shoot till battery runs out.
As someone who uses Z50 and wants to get into commercial photography like concerts and portraiture, which ff system (or camera body) would you recommend? I also want to shoot wildlife as a hobbyist.
Concerts can be a weak area for the Z8/Z9 because some LED lighting can cause banding with electronic shutter even with their ultra fast readout speed. The is a draw back of the Z8 and Z9 not having a mechanical shutter to fall back on. With that in mind I might suggest the R5 Mark II even though it has a slower electronic shutter read out speed, it does have a mechanical shutter to use in situations where electronic shutter causes banding. My friend has a Z9 and we shot a concert together. He experienced some very mild banding. Hardly noticeable to people looking at his images but we noticed them.
I've recently bought Sony 70-350 for my a6700. Because of the weight I'm in love with going out with a camera again. I know that it's different focal league that 180-600, but it's so fantastic, apart from stabilisation. 100-400GM will probably go. I'll maybe consider Nikon in the future, but I would so much prefer good quality APS-C camera with matching lightweight telephoto zoom with weather sealing and all that. A6700 is not that great, because of small, not centered viewfinder and flippy screen. Having a kit under 1,5kg lets me enjoy shooting much more than those 3kg setups. Let's see what next 2-3 years will bring.
I'm cooking up a recipe of the z8 with the tamron 50-400 for a balance of versatility and quality and then later get the 800 pf for maximum quality and reach lol
I went with the R5M2 and am quite happy with its performance, especially the autofocus. If the R1 was in the 30-32MP range I would have waited for it for the robustness and dual CFExpress B card slots. I’m not willing to step back down to 24MP. 🤷🏻♂️
I'm certain the R5 mark II is great. I just didn't want to pay hundreds more for a sensor with a slower readout speed. After all, it was sensor readout speed that made me want to invest in a high-resolution full-frame stacked sensor camera in the first place.
@@PhilThach Nikon really shook things up with the introduction of the Z9/Z8. I am curious to see the next iterations of the crop cameras. The rumors point to a stacked sensor in the R7m2 and a partially stacked sensor in a Z50m2 or, potentially, a Z80. 🤔
I wish Nikon would put out a mirrorless camera to replace the D500. They are talking about de Z90, but I don't know if this is true. The D500 still is a great camera, I own a D850, and have own several Nikon DSLR's , but the D500 beat them all. Right know I have the Z6 which is a good camera but the AF is very slow. The main problem for me with all these new cameras is the prices. Wow!!. Congrats on your new camera.
Thank you! I want a Z90 or even Z70 pretty badly. I think I'd rather wait a while until they can make it with a fast stacked sensor now that I have the Z8.
Update: I did see the Z50II rumors. It's not really what I'm looking for. I want an APSC camera with the larger EN-EL15 battery type battery. Many APSC Nikons have used this size battery historically. I would like to see either a stacked APSC sensor (unlikely) or have them fit it with the same sensor in the a6700 which seems possible. Nikon gets their sensors from Sony. But, if it has the same 20.9mp sensor as the Z30, Zfc and Z50, I don't think I'm interested. I'll just use the Z8 which is 19mp in crop mode.
I enjoyed hearing your thought process on getting the Z8. If I ever hit the lottery there will be signs, a new z8! 🤣but I would have to play the lottery to win which I don't. 😆 One day I hope to have enough saved up to get the Z8 or its replacement.
How would you compare the autofocus with the R6ii to the Z8? The Z8 resolution better for wildlife photography obviously. I could see using the video a lot.
@@PhilThach I have a ton of money in Fuji… but I do want a full frame at some point. I will always have a Fuji but wildlife is definitely more of a challenge with their autofocus from 7 years ago. The A7V might be interesting too. I have no lenses so I’m wide open
@@dccoletrain I think they want to separate AS LONG AS POSSIBLE A7-V from A9 / A1 series. Stacked Sensor, 4k120, pre-capture.. I reaaaly doubt it will be in that model. High frame rates - sure, maybe 15, maybe 20 fps, probably 4k60 no crop, MAAAAYBE 4k120 but with high crop I don't know, I don't think it will be but yeah.. The limitations from sensor will come there. AI features will be added as A7CII, and so on.. They try to cut as much as possible. For me A6700 would be ideal even for 1k$ more but with stacked sensor and pre-capture... THAT THE ONLY TWO PIECES MISSED in that camera. They had intention to cut that features! :|
Message to all the people in UA-cam comments constantly droning on about AF. If you can’t get the shot with current generation of Sony, Canon, Nikon… the problem is YOU, not the camera.
Glad to see you’re doing well again after the heart attack Phill 😊 I shoot mainly products and Athletes for work and sports photography as a hobby. I had looked at 5 cameras this past summer but I’m holding out. A1 - too expensive and overpriced A6700- terrible evf and a tad slow Z8- too heavy for my liking and people autofocus still too jumpy. Also evf could he better R5ii - A bit pricey, sold out and the 70-200 is not on par with Sony’s 70-200 GMaster OS ii. And the 100-500 although super sharp has that f7.1 R6ii too low resolution and lacos focus bracketing with flash R7 too much rolling shutter and shutter shock Hoping Sony release a higher megapixel camera that can shoot at least 15-20 fps and doesn’t cost a fortune. Hek a stacked A6700 with nice evf wouid probably finally get le to upgrade. Z8 is probably the best overall option at this time. Can’t wait to see some of your sports photography vids.
The Z8 is a lot cheaper than I thought it was going to be. I was afraid it was going to be $5 to $6 grand. I might get the Z8ii when it comes out. I was in Banff many years ago. I saw a lot of mountain goats. From the ground they look like snow patches. Zoom in and you will see they are goats. Congrats to you and Heather.
I am very pleased with Nikon's price point choice on the Z8. We hope to see lots of wildlife including grizzly bears, just not up close with the bears. :)
You're right, I did not mention that camera. I'm not a big fan of the raw files produced by X-Trans sensors or the Fujifilm autofocus system but if you can deal with those two things, the X-H2S is certainly a great option.
Hello, friend! I'm glad to see you've recovered well from your heart attack. Also, congratulations on your upcoming marriage. PS Your knowledge of cameras has surpassed that of Miatas. 8^)
@@tomshirleysr.44 hi Tom! Who would’ve thought that 1.3 megapixel digital camera I bought 24 years ago to take pictures of Miatas would turn into this. 🤷♂️
Exactly my reasoning too. I wait for an apsc stacked sensor from either Canon or Nikon (more likely might appear from Nikon). Where is it!!! even Fuji has one and OM1 stacked is on version 2. My daily cam is R7 with the adapted EF 100-400mm F5.6 MK2. We have poor light in UK so Canons F9, F11 even the F7.1 zoom disappointed me no purchase from me. I plan on the Z8 with the 180-600mm. I'm still debating whether to get the 600mm prime instead though. UK price for the R5 II is an eye watering £4499.00 which is US $5,901.49.
@@PhilThach The R7 with the 100-400mm is light enough to deal with my quick zoom moments so considering I'm looking for reach most of the time the prime 600mm is looking good don't forget it's way lighter too so a two camera walkabout is feasible.
Why do you compare Angelbird CFX-B with Sony CFX-A cards? There are already quite cheap CFX-A cards. Still a bit more expensive than B, but not the price of Sony cards. And that allows you to have dual CFX cards in a small body, while dual CFX-B cards you can only get in bodies with integrated grip (because of heat dissipation).
Because the Anglebird cards are a known commodity to me. Still, even the cheaper type A cards are more expensive than type B, and even the expensive type A cars are slower than type B. Sony really needs to switch to type B in their next-generation cameras. I'm not a wedding photographer so dual cards are not a buying motivator for me.
Yes, I do but the Z8 180-600 combo is more expensive and heavier than the R7 100-500 combo so you might want to take those two factors into consideration.
@PhilThach Thanks very much Phil 🙂 At the moment I have the R7 and 100-500 and my old trusty D500 and the 200-500. Nikon hit it out of the park with both the Z8 and 180-600 lens! The internal zoom is a big help too. I have a decision to make
Hi Phil. I don't know if you ever consider buying used camera. I know A1 is officially $6500 but I don't know anyone who paid $6500 for it. It was going for about $4800 slightly used pretty much shortly after it was announced and I've seen them recently down to about $3700 on KEH and other places. Thus in my mind I never thought of A1 is $6500 camera, since one can always get it in $4000 range pretty easily and it is built like a tank so buying used is not a problem. I can get a used A1 cheaper than Canon R5 Mark II. A9mark II I've seen used about $1.5K cheaper than retail but I have not tried it. I' have owned a couple of A1s, Canon R5 and R5II now, and the other cameras with stacked sensor you did not consider - Olympus OM1 and Fuji XH2s. Now I have not tried Nikon Z8 and Z9, the last Nikons I owned were Z6 and Z7 of first generation but i had owned every Nikon DSLR since D40 through D850. Nikon is attractive because they have these slightly slower tele primes like 400, 500, 600 and 800 that cost a lot but not over $10K. I guess I am going to rent Z8 to check it out.
@@fabisax4957 sounds like a great camera for landscape photography! However, I was looking for something with a stacked fast read out speed sensor, which that camera does not have.
Yes the Sony is more expensive but when it comes down to it Sony is cheaper if you want a zoom lense 24-70 or 14-24mm it’s $2200-$2500 each where Sony you can get sigma and get it for $1000-1200 way more lenses than Nikon and better prices
@@DanBallzerian that’s a very good point but my main goal is bird photography and I already have the 180-600 which is cheaper than the 200-600 even after a price increase.
I had Z8 and Nikon Z 180-600, I love Z8 but the lens didn't go well with Z8, may be I got a bad copy, my photos at 600mm were all soft, I was disappointed how could this happen, may be Z8 high resolution was too much for 180 - 600.
That sounds like my experience with the Canon 200-800. That's why I sent it in to Canon for them to check it out. They said my lens was operating normally. Fortunately my Nikon 180-600 is sharp wide open at 600mm even on the Z8.
@@PhilThach Happy you got a good copy of Z 180-600, enjoy your shoot, I didn't send my Z 180-600 ti Nikon, I would get the same answer what you got for canon 😕
Great to see you looking so well and very smartly dressed. I have watched several of your videos and every time you complain about the RF 200-800 not being sharp at the long end. I have this lens since April and mine is sharp on the R6 Mark II and the new R5 Mark II from 200-800 at all given apertures. It’s excellent for video as well and when compared with the RF 100-500 is only two thirds of a stop slower at 800 and you get 300mm additional reach. It is way, way better than using the 100-500 plus 1.4 extender in my opinion. The new Canon R5 Mark ii has elimated rolling shutter as far as I can see and the fantastic pre capture gives you a half second pre full shutter press and you get max 15 images, raw or jpegs depending on your choice. To me the R5 Mark II is the best camera I’ve ever had. The only gripe I have with it, is the battery. It drains quite fast.
Thank you! We'll have to agree to disagree about the 200-800. As you know, I find it to be a little soft wide open. I'm certain the R5 Mark II is great. I just couldn't justify paying several hundred more for a camera with a slower sensor. The R5 Mark II also has an anti-aliasing filter that I prefer to not have and Canon bakes in some noise reduction in their raw files from what I understand. I did send my 200-800 to Canon repair to make sure there is not a problem with my copy. They said it is operating properly.
The Nikkor 200-600 doesn't have the same reach as the Canon RF 200-800 whatever way you put it + Nikon's AF is nowhere near as good as the offerings from Canon/Sony. I've tried them all.
@@geoffreyconnor4589 while I agree the 180 to 600 does not go to 800, the 200-800 is not as sharp as the 180-600. I think I’d rather have a sharp 600 mm shot than a slightly soft 800 mm shot.
@@geoffreyconnor4589in my opinion r5 af isn’t better especially when things are moving, R3 is similar but too low resolution. I owned them all, canon and Nikon, until I recently left canon because maintaining two systems stopped making sense to me. The final straw was 2 out of 3 R5ii presenting issues.
So much knowledge dripped in this video. Thanks for sharing what you have learned about all three systems. This is incredible.
Thank you, David! :)
Wow, Phil! Congrats on buying a GREAT camera!
Thank you!
Phil, glad to see you doing so well. Fuji already has an APSC with a stacked sensor. So the big 3 can do it if they wanted to. I think the biggest problem for a stacked sensor in an APSC camera would be the price. The Fuji stacked sensor doesn’t sell near as well as the non stacked version. Congratulations on the New Z8. It looks like a great camera. Your logic for going with the Z8 makes perfect sense to me.
Thank you!
I bought my first ever Nikon (Zf) in March. I was so impressed with the performance, I got the Z8 in July. I'm using a adapted EF mount Sigma 150-600mm HSM Sport lens and Sony primes for now. What really blew me away is the AF is near native speed and accuracy. The Z8 is simply the best hybrid mirror-less camera for the price, on the market right now.
Thank you! What adaptor are you using? I might have to pick one of those up.
@@PhilThach The best one is Megadap ETZ 21 pro for Sony. I use a Teckart EF to Z for Canon but I may pick up the Fringer EF to Z soon.
I’m hoping they do a ZFii, with a couple minor improvements everyone complained about: slightly bigger grip, U1/U2/U3 on the dial, a more compact build, + a classic silver option. And where is a 36mpx sensor option like the d800’s had a decade ago? Step it up a little, Nik…
I went with a Z8, too. Love it to pieces. And hey, CF express cards are about to go on major sale for Black Friday in about 8 weeks. There are amazing deals for super fast cards. Last year I got super deals on a Delkin Power 1TB and a Prograde 325 GB. The savings for Black Friday blew my mind. Of course, there's also going to be deals on SD cards. I've had great success with the Lexar 1667x series at both 128GB and 256 GB. They are plenty fast enough for stills. I got the faster CF Express type B cards cuz I like the import speed and possibility of video, but I usually shoot stills, so SD cards work a treat and cost way less.
Glad to see you are well👍👍 I love my Z8 too.
Thank you!
Excellent analysis. Thanks for sharing! I’m in the same system with Z8. I have Z6iii for my travel and casual shooting and portrait purposes
Thank you!
Marrying the two, R7 in an R6 body, with a stacked sensor would have me sold.
@@b.g.4277 oh, I love that idea.
Will be buying into a different system soon I have considered this combination for many reasons. Thank you and enjoy Canada!
Thank you!
Superb choice!
Thank you!
With the A1 and A9iii you can actually use regular SD cards as well (I’d recommend the UHS-ii V90 cards) and it still works outstandingly. I use the A1 for weddings and wildlife alongside a colleague who uses the Z8 and Z6iii. In most scenarios, the actual autofocus difference between the Z8 and A1 is minor though the Z8 gets confused with backgrounds more and the A1 gets more confused with foregrounds (both instances are occasional) so I’d consider that mostly a push. The A1 does track better but probably not the price difference better if that makes sense. The memory card issue is nothing honestly. I go back and forth between CF Express A cards and UHS-ii SD cards and have no issues with either as both are plenty fast and I’ve never buffered out my A1 on SD cards even but I also don’t just hammer the shutter for no reason.
I do like that a CFX A card slot will also work with an SD card.
The 180-600 is one fantastic lens. Coupled with the Z8 is a win win. Just wish this lens was a tad bit lighter but a 600pf would get you the weight savings. Glad you are enjoying the Z8. I love mine and keep learning new ways to use it every week.
I agree, it is a little heavy after getting used to the Canon 100-500 or for you the Nikon F 500 PF. I think I'd be more likely to pick up the 800 PF at some point than the 600 just because the 180-600 is the same aperture at 600. But you are certainly right about the weight.
Awesome video, packed with great logical info. I will be back in Canada next week (Victoria BC) and late Oct (Toronto), plus mid November (St.John's NL) Some great scenery, people and experiences. Hope you also have a wonderful trip.
Thank you! We are are going to Banff.
Thanks for the great video. Would love to hear your ideas comparing the autofocus systems of the Canon R5 (original) and the Nikon Z8 for bird photography.
Thank you! I've never used the original R5 but I have owned the R6 and currently own the R6 Mark II. I'd say the autofocus systems are comparable. Basically, Nikon's bird detect focus system has caught up with Canon with the Z8 and Z9.
Excellent information!
Thank you!
Looking great Phil. Be well and thanks for another great video!
Thank you!
Nice buying Phil. Z8 looks like it could be a valuable buy for your photography
@@adrianalfordphotography I’m loving it so so far!
Phil, one of the things I like about you is that you will trying anything, you are not brand loyal. You are practicality loyal. Sony went with the Cf-Express type A format to keep the camera size small and the memory card slots support dual functionality of either a Cf-Express type A or a Sd card, which others don't. With other manufacturers, you will get either two CF-Express type B only in both slots at the high-end or a Cf-Express type B in one slot and a Sd card slot in the other slot separately. The design it's crappy, it's practical considering that they wanted to keep the camera size down. I agree with you that the memory card prices for Sony Cf-Express type A is expensive, but when we are talking $3000 to 6500 for a camera body, with your data becoming as important as the camera, it is relative.
Relatively expensive that is. This is either an expensive hobby or expensive profession. There are other manufacturers outside of Sony that produce Cf-Express type A cards that are far cheaper in price, like for example Peargear, those cards are 260gb for $179 and 512 for 209 with an additional 10 percent off on the 260gb and 20 percent off on the 512gb. You have Cf-Express from Lexar, Angel Bird, ExAscend, OWC and others. The Angel Bird 330gb is $249, the ExAscend is $499 for a 1tb card. Also have you seen the prices of UHS II 128gb and 256gb cards, they are at Cf Express type A prices almost, but thank god for Kingston and Sabrient.
So, there are plenty of deals to be had, but you have to do your research. I'm currently using two of the Peargear 260gbs with no problems for a year now, but I have to agree with you that Cf-Express Type B is still cheaper per gigabyte than Cf-Express Type A. The Nikon Z8 is a great camera and I hope that you are happy with it. Nikon is killing it with their offerings and even better their new lenses. I'm heavily invested in Sony as a business. If Canon had their lens situation straightened out and offered third party full-frame RF glass, I would have bought the Canon R3, because I have shot it and it's great.
Great comment!
Best Wild Life Combo on the Planet >> Z8 and 180-600 .. Its what I use for African Wild Life >> all my life I have used Full frame apart from a 5 month venture with the D500 but was soon back to a D800 then .. Great video Phil
@@Mr09260 thank you!
great video Phil , agree with you completely. Now your logical next step should be the 800mm f/6.3 !
Thank you! I agree, the 800 6.3 PF may be my next big lens.
The quality of a 45mp full frame cropped to the equivalent of an APS-C is better than the APS-C crop camera image. See comparison videos of Nikon D500 with identical crop from D850 (45mp). Same is true for Z8 and Z9 of course. But the advantage of full frame is you have more image to crop down from should you need to. So if the bird you are tracking is a bit left or right of center, no problem. But with a crop camera, too bad. The head or tail are cut off. The Z8 bird eye detect and stacked sensor electronic shutter is amazing. Never had any rolling shutter effect on it regardless of shutter speed, pan speed or subject speed. And silent all the time!
Thanks so much for sharing another wonderful video like always, beautiful camera 🤗👍
Thank you!
I love my Z8 and the Z 180-600 is a great lens, sharp wide open!
@@josefgerl1150 me too! 😎
Mine arrives next week (I hope), and I cant wait. Coming from a line of Nikon cameras including D40, D40x, D3200 (Wifes camera), D5200 (Lasted 2 weeks), D7000 (Handed down to my son) and now my D800 and D850, I think the Z8 seems to be the next step for me. Thanks for the video! Oh and I am seriously looking at the 180-600 as well, as that is far beyond anything I have for the D850
Congratulations!
My first Nikon was a pre-Ai Nikkormat in 1972 and I've stuck with Nikon right to my current Z8 and Zf. I enjoy using old manual focus lenses on the Zf when I'm walking around shooting for fun.
@@finesse49 your loyalty has paid off with the Z8. And I imagine using your old lenses on the vintage looking Zf is a treat!
Hey Phil I use the Angelbird cards with no problem whatsoever. It’s been two years so far. I was thinking you’d like the stacked sensor
Great choice, I have Z8+800 mm pf and R5+rf100-500. Nikon has the best choice for wildlife lens. A1 don’t have even bird af in video mode. Also z8 have a choice 2.3 crop mode in 4 k. R5 mark 2 have only advantages in sport photography. And maybe little better autofocus. Nikon also improves Z8 by firmware updates and I am sure Z8 becomes even better.
So, which AF system do find easiest to use. I hope to upgrade by the end of this year or before spring 2025 at the latest. Thanks for any replies.
& know it makes sense to purchase Nikon to make use of my F-mount lenses but ,,,,
@@thomastuorto9929 Z8 and R5 have incredible autofocus, both of them for me excellent. Z8 has many advantages in sensor, video and lenses. If I choose one camera in present days- my choice will be Z8 .
Received an email from Nikon this morning. Sale is back on. I think it is good business for Nikon to do so as the will sell more lenses & accessories that way. Also the 400 & 800 are back on sale but never the 600pf. Must be way too popular. Also the F-mount super tele lenses have dropped quite a lot & was wondering for some time now if they would ever do so. There must be reason the 600 & 800 F-mount still cost more than the Z of lenses. Wouldn’t mind seeing a real life wildlife comparison of side by side photos from each. When one factors in the PF lens prices from Nikon & the price of the Z8 & it being 95% of the Z9 camera, it is quite a compelling purchase. Probably good for You Tube channel to multi brands also. Enjoy your trips & happy shooting.
@@irbis8801 Thank you!
I don't remember if you've got the R6 as well, but I just compaared my Z8 + 180-600mm VS the R7 + 200-800mm lens. The results between them are that the R7 combo clearly delivers more detailed images. Not considering obvious other advantages of the Z8 of course. On the other hand, the 180-600mm + tc14 aka 840mm vs the 200-800mm on the R3 is a mixed bag. The Z8 images are higher res, but the R3 images appear sharper in a way.
I was in the same boat as you, I went with the Z8 but got mine second hand for $2700. 180-600mm is an amazing lens. Another reason the Nikon Z setup is nice is due to third party lens.
I got the Tamron 35-150mm f2-2.8 Z and the Tamron 150-500mm Z. They are amazing plus the 150-500 is very similar to the canon one. I got mine $900 second hand. It works well to backup the Nikon 800mm Z PF lens I have.
I want the 35-150 Tamron for sure! I have the Samyang version for Sony and I love it.
Hi Phil , sounds very good but there is one thing I don't understand is you say you are waiting for the right APSC camera but you can use your Z8 in DX mode ,
which is what I do when I want more reach,
and that is about the same thing and a similar resolution as APSC, and then you can use it in full frame when you want so you will have both options in one camera.
Have a great trip to Canada I'm in Alberta, cheers.
Exactly!
I went from the R7 to the Lumix G9ii and it’s everything the R7 should be.
@@jamesscharnitz7640 interesting!
Canon is very proud. I got the Z8 for under 3k and it’s just as good as anything Canon or Sony can release. But I do have the A9III, which I also got cheaper. But I can use the Sony lenses on the Z8. I had to sell my OM-1 & 150-400 but I might get that back one day. But as you noted, the Sony lenses are fantastic. But now, Fuji is releasing their 500 5.6 GF lens which is fairly small and lightweight. I’m thinking of getting that lens with the GFX 100SII next year
You'll have to tell me the secret to getting these cameras so inexpensively!
I actually use A7IV and 200-600, I'd like to upgrade for "life" (or at least to be sure for next 5-6 years with the gear!) to Z8+800 mm f6.3 or OM1-mark II +150-400, which one would be the best for travel photography with your advantage of point of view? I like sunsets, I like sunrises. Wildlife is a priority of course, at the range of 900-1200/1400 mm. Any advice?
@@pentagramyt417 I miss the Olympus and would like to have it back. The 800 pf I thought about for range which would probably be better with the FF sensor for about the same range. Just depends what bag you want to use as the 800 is longer. I’m thinking of the 400 2.8 but it’s heavier and expensive but what isn’t? That 800 pf and z8 seem like the best value for reach that you can get though.
@@davetv8171 Yeah.. Too much of tables, calculating, and at the end just a part of me saying "OM is more fun in all of that".
I was talking with one youtuber that review 800 mm f6.3, and I compared those two specification, because what came to my mind is 800 mm f6.3 vs 150-400 f4.5 which makes only 1 EV stop of Depth of Field difference! ONE STOP.. it's not much, especially if you can fill the frame wit 150-400 the background blurr should be fine on F4.5 (F9.0 for fullframe) as on f6.3 for Nikon, not that creamy but probably really good. I would not make a mistake, but seems to me 150-400 + 1.4 tc on the top of that, and you can have MUCH MORE lightweight and cheaper 1400 mm at f8 light. At the same time, you have 1680 mm at 20 mpx DX mode with Z8, but the light is f9. Nikon has 4k120 fps video mode at almost 2000 mm range (over 2.0 crop), and for sure different league comparing to OM System video capabilites, but again overall I think fight between those two, to wildlife is on the side of OM, especially to bad weather.
Forgot to say, 400 mm f2.8 is awesome lens from what it is, and very practical.. Especially this from Nikon with TC added.. + Z8 it makes you 3 different focal lengths.. 400 mm, 560 mm with TC and then DX mode to 840 mm.. But the price, ouch.
i got the z8 for big trips and the ZF for daily driver
The Zf is a beautiful camera.
I've hungered so much for that Z8 & 180-600mm combo. But, as a bird photographer (mostly), I think that 45mp sensor works out at only about 18mp "cropped" equivalent to the R7's 32mp so I suspect the R7 plus the RF 100-500mm will significantly out resolve the Nikon combo for small birds. If Nikon could make us a circa 30mp crop sensor "R7 equivalent" I'd be chasing that 180-600mm so quick. I'd also be hoping for proper raw image pre-capture capability in the Nikon system.
@@derekmidgley it’s more like 19 1/2 megapixels when it is in 1.5 crop mode. But you are right, the R7 has much higher pixel density and I agree that is a legitimate concern for small birds. Take a look at my VERO account for a white eyed vireo photograph I made recently with the Z8 and 180-600 to see what it can do on a tiny bird from around 20 feet.
Looking good Phil 🎉. Being a live in FL I need to get more into bird photography. Currently using a s5ii and longest lens is 70-200
Thank you! Yes, Florida is a bird photography paradise!
I do sports, the z8 has some options to have small but good quality raw files for not the commercial sports works but for competitions where I get tons of files? I use 24/26 mpx cameras, and the file size is good compromise for size and quality for postproduction
Well said Phil, You have a lot of tools to get the job done!!!
@@JRodPhotoArt thank you!
A very thoughtful video and many good points. A few days ago I was so frustrated with my Z8 and 180600+1.4x that I wanted to sell it. It is so, so heavy (3,3kg) for me as a woman and an office-sitting-person, it hurts my shoulders and back a lot, because I love to walk a lot. With camera :) But when I look at all my pictures (and I changed gear a lot, unfortunately, because I haven't felt comfy with most cameras), the pictures which come out of the Z8 are the best I've yet created. They have a 3d look, a glowing clarity and clean up very nicely. The R7 AF was horrible (for me), I never warmed up to the R6II. But I DO miss the A6700, I loved the combo with the Tamron 150-500 the most, probably because it is a very lightweighted one - BUT the rolling shutter was just dreadful. Next week I'll rent the 200800 and the r8, just to see if it a lighter walkaround combo and if it's better than what I have now. Because then I would have 800mm, a lighter camera and saving 700grams is not something I would pass on. But I guess I can't let go of the superb image quality from the Z8. Sometimes it sucks to have too many choices and we are all very blessed to talk about such privileges in life. Thank you Phil for your kind videos, I'm glad that you are feeling better, you look healthy!
@@Fenrissa you have been through a lot of the same gear as me! if it was me, I would use the Z8 without the tele converter on the 180 to 600. That should save you a little little bit of weight and improve your image quality to a certain extent. Sometimes with a high megapixel camera cropping a little bit is better in terms of image quality than using a tele converter and filling the frame. I would be very surprised if you liked your images better with the 200-800 then the 180-600 . Thanks for the very interesting comment.
@@PhilThach Thank you for answering, Phil! Yes, most of the times, I indeed walk without the TC and it is better to take pictures without it. I'm quite curious about the 200800 but just today I took some beautiful bird images in the garden and I also can't really imagine going back to Canon (right now...an R7 MkII might tempt me again :))
Weight is a consideration for me as well. Heavier gear is just not that enjoyable to me. I shoot the R5 with 100-500. It’s the lens that I’m in love with. There is always something to shoot. Sharp, light, shoots macro type photos and can do some landscape at 100 mm. I’m waiting for the R7ii before I buy anything! I keep thinking I could get more reach in camera!
I still run D500, and I would love to get a new camera with AI subject detection. First one (between Nikon and Canon) to make an actual flagship APSC gets my money for camera and new lenses. I hope Nikon does it, as I have always been a Nikon shooter. If they wait too long, I will get a OM-1 mkii, 150-600, and 12-100. OM1mkii hits all the boxes other than low light. I can get both camera and lens for the price of a Z8/R5mkii body only.
I still have my D500 and I have plans to photograph Sandhill Cranes with it later this year! :)
Very nice video. Could not agree more - Anglebird also has a reasonably priced 1 TB card ! Which might be also a good choice since the Z8 has only one CF-Express card slot.
Thank you!
Hello Phil I have the Nikon Z8 and I use this adapter Megadap ETZ21 Pro Sony E-Mount Lens to Nikon Z-Mount Autofocus Adapter and it works just like the native lenses.
Thank you! I will consider getting one of those for sure!
OM1 I/II would be a possibility too. Even more crop than apsc, stacked sensor and a workable AF System. Night shots and wide angle are weak points for mft, but for macro and wildlife, i love my om1mk2. I would kill to get a z8 as replacment for the z6 though.
Very good strategy to have lenses from different brands so that you can just pick up the body that suits your needs. I cannot afford doing that but certainly in the long run, it is worth it instead of moving systems and taking enormous discounts in selling great lenses quite cheap (as it usually goes like that). Enjoy your photography!
Thank you!
Just bought my Z8 two days ago. Expecting it on Thursday. Perfect second camera for my Z9. Now my Zf gets relegated to the shelf and occasional street photography when I don’t feel like shooting film.
Thank you!
The advantage of Canon is the lenses, short and light. The Canon RF 800 mm f/11 I believe is a great lens. With Nikon I have the Z 180-200 lens but with the full-frame camera, it's not the same. Now with the Z8 you can crop a lot and still have a good size image.
Nikon has an 800mm f6.3.
They also have a 600mm f6.3, a 400mm f4.5 and the 180-600mm f6.3.
I like several of the Canon lenses. I own the 100-500, 800 f/11 and the 200-800. I still think Nikon might have the bird photography lens advantage. For birds, I like the 180-600 better than all three of those and Nikon still has the 600 PF and 800 PF that are expensive but much cheaper than the full exotic telephoto lenses from all three manufacturers. (600 f/4) I do like the Canon 100-500 better than its main competition from Nikon, the 100-400.
Great choice
@@ath3263 thank you!
Great insight Phil ! Do you think that lens manufactures are going away from Image Stabilization since the newer cameras have Ibis ?
Thank you! I think lens stabilization is here to stay, especially in long telephoto lenses where IBIS is less helpful.
Hi Phil, I'm sure you'll enjoy that Angelbird SE 512 Gb card. I have the very same card, and after 2 years, 215k images (& ~ 100 video's) I haven't experienced a single glitch. never even reformatted it. And it costed me then the same as what I paid a year earlier for a V30 SD card with half the capacity and 1/9th of the speed 🙈 Angelbird made me suddenly realize CFxB provides now much more value for money than any SD card (nevermind CFxA). Recently Ordinary Filmmaker showed a new cheaper CFxA from Anglebird .. and it seems a brand different from Sony will soon start using CFxA as well (which would surprise me !)
Good to see you're happy with the Z8. It's a great camera indeed! Still, I do feel you ruled out the R5ii a tad too quickly. Yes it's pricy right now, and the sensor is slower than the Z8, but seems still fast enough to avoid rolling shutter and it still offers the option to use MS/EFCS shutters. From what I hear so far the (bird) AF leaves the Nikons behind and the pre-shooting gives raws. The Z8 with the 180-600 and the 1.4x is also significantly heavier and requires the same F10 as the R5 + 200-800 ..
Thank you! That is good to know about your Angelbird card. I won't be using a teleconverter with my Z8 180-600 combo. Also, Who knows, I might pick up an R5 Mark II someday. I didn't buy my D850 until 2024! :)
@@PhilThach hmmm, sooner or later you'll be tempted try an extender on the Nikon combo ;-)
I've sometimes used one even on the 200-800.
600mm on the Z8/R5 matches the same amount of pixels on a bird as an 821mm on the R6ii, but it only equals 441mm on the R7. In order to avoid rolling shutter on a small distant bird, you'll want more than 600mm on the Z8. or if you want a small bird 10 yards away to fill the frame ..
I told you before I considered waiting for a stacked R7ii, but it seems the stacked R6iii and R7ii will not get the Digic Accelerator, meaning their AF will not keep up with the R5ii ..
If I'm honest, I also thought the readout of the R5 II was a little disappointing at its announcement. But after buying it and using it, I can honestly say it's a non-issue. The R5 II handles humming birds pretty well, and everything slower, perfectly. More importantly, the RAW pre capture is by far the standout feature and is worth the price of admission alone. Nikon has some great high-end lens options, so I can appreciate why people jump.
@@mikejackson9585 I’m glad that you are happy with your R5 Mark ii and I’m sure it’s a great camera.
With your A9iii specs, I would have run to get one ! I eventually got a used A1. The Z8 has everything I need on paper : 2 ways tilting screen, great tele lenses offering. But the AF seems to stay behind according to tests (Fabian Fopp, Jan Wegener). It was the main reason for my frustration with the A7iv. The A1 is still not perfect but a huge improvement and I'm not frustrated any more.
I don't follow Fabian Fopp. I'll have to look him up.
Phil!! I rented the Z6iii and the AF is dismal. I tried not to say that and sound negative. I pared the 180-600 with that body and I like the internal zoom but that is about it. That is not a wildlife set up at least for me. I enjoyed Z8 and 600 PF now that nikon has updated their tracking and focus software for the Z8 & 9. I wish they had put it intthe Z6iii. I think the Sony 200-600mm is a phenomenal lens and works so well on the A6700. For what I like to shoot, the 100-500 is the perfect lens. Fast, sharp and a super short minimum focus distance. I do wish though that Canon had a few other 600mm lenses like the others. Nothing is perfect and we work our styles around the limitations. ❤
Hi JP! That's a shame about the Z6III. I love the Canon 100-500!
@@PhilThach 💖🤗
Johnny, If you got 29 sharp photos out of thousands like you stated in the comment section of your video I’d say something was severely wrong lol Z6iii is very similar (a hair less competent) to Z8/9 for bird af
@@livejames9374 Lensrentals said everything was in spec so it is either a setting on my part or just not a good lens body paring that works for the way I shoot. The 200-800 and the R7 for me are that way but that is because of the noise. Same with the 800 F11. I prefer those on the full frame bodies. And, maybe I was being too critical. 🤗
Great Video, thanks Phil! :) What do you think about de AF from the Nikon Z8? That's my only concern.
@@ginogiove thank you! I’ve been satisfied with the focus system in the Nikon Z8 in both Bird and people photography situations.
Great! Thanks a lot!
The Z8 is an amazing camera but I recently sold mine. For me it just didn't fit my shooting style and didn't have the great AF of my Sony cameras for bird photography. I had a friend that wanted one so I gave her a great deal. I will miss the BIF AF which is class leading. I use the Anglebird cards too and they have been solid and like you said inexpensive. Thanks for the video.
Thanks, Phil.
I'm also a Canon shooter and currently have the R6 mk2. I had the chance to borrow a Z8 and 180-600mm Lens but after only 2 weeks I couldn't wait to give it back. All the different Autofocus settings you need to use for Birds, Cats and other Mammals drove me mad. With the Canon its one setting for everything. I'm keen to hear how you get on with the Nikon's AF compared to the Canon's you own..Pleased to see you're back. Take care.
@@martineldridge1319 interesting! I found the autofocus system in the Z8 easier to use because there are more choices in terms of what you wanted to focus on. But I can understand your point.
@@PhilThach Hi Phil, Thanks for your reply. Yes that was the problem, there were too many AF Options. For example, I was photographing some ducks at my local Nature Reserve when a fox appeared from the side. I forgot about changing the AF and missed the shot of the fox as the Z8 refused to lock on the fox, by the time I switched setting the shot was gone. I must admit I loved the 180-600mm Lens
@@martineldridge1319use auto if your shooting birds and mammals
I also own a Z8 and the 180-600mm, great combination. The only thing is I'm struggling with Cfexpress Card Type B. I have a Sandisk Extreme Pro 256gb read 1700mb/s and write 1200mb/s. When I take a burst 20fps losless raw it's stutter within 3 seconds. The Lexar CFexpress Type B Diamond Series read 1750mb/s write 1000mb/s it took 12 seconds before it stutter and 12fps 40 seconds. If sets to 20fps raw high efficiency* you can continuous shoot till battery runs out.
I'll experiment with this at some point. I've been perfectly happy shooting at 8fps so far.
As someone who uses Z50 and wants to get into commercial photography like concerts and portraiture, which ff system (or camera body) would you recommend? I also want to shoot wildlife as a hobbyist.
Concerts can be a weak area for the Z8/Z9 because some LED lighting can cause banding with electronic shutter even with their ultra fast readout speed. The is a draw back of the Z8 and Z9 not having a mechanical shutter to fall back on. With that in mind I might suggest the R5 Mark II even though it has a slower electronic shutter read out speed, it does have a mechanical shutter to use in situations where electronic shutter causes banding. My friend has a Z9 and we shot a concert together. He experienced some very mild banding. Hardly noticeable to people looking at his images but we noticed them.
I've recently bought Sony 70-350 for my a6700. Because of the weight I'm in love with going out with a camera again. I know that it's different focal league that 180-600, but it's so fantastic, apart from stabilisation. 100-400GM will probably go. I'll maybe consider Nikon in the future, but I would so much prefer good quality APS-C camera with matching lightweight telephoto zoom with weather sealing and all that. A6700 is not that great, because of small, not centered viewfinder and flippy screen. Having a kit under 1,5kg lets me enjoy shooting much more than those 3kg setups. Let's see what next 2-3 years will bring.
I love my a6700. I don't even mind the viewfinder. I just wish the sensor readout speed was faster.
I'm cooking up a recipe of the z8 with the tamron 50-400 for a balance of versatility and quality and then later get the 800 pf for maximum quality and reach lol
@@sedevacante966 I like this recipe!
Have you thought about trying the megadap adapters to use your Canon and Sony lenses on your Z8?
I have been considering that.
I went with the R5M2 and am quite happy with its performance, especially the autofocus. If the R1 was in the 30-32MP range I would have waited for it for the robustness and dual CFExpress B card slots. I’m not willing to step back down to 24MP. 🤷🏻♂️
I'm certain the R5 mark II is great. I just didn't want to pay hundreds more for a sensor with a slower readout speed. After all, it was sensor readout speed that made me want to invest in a high-resolution full-frame stacked sensor camera in the first place.
@@PhilThach Nikon really shook things up with the introduction of the Z9/Z8. I am curious to see the next iterations of the crop cameras. The rumors point to a stacked sensor in the R7m2 and a partially stacked sensor in a Z50m2 or, potentially, a Z80. 🤔
I wish Nikon would put out a mirrorless camera to replace the D500. They are talking about de Z90, but I don't know if this is true. The D500 still is a great camera, I own a D850, and have own several Nikon DSLR's , but the D500 beat them all. Right know I have the Z6 which is a good camera but the AF is very slow. The main problem for me with all these new cameras is the prices. Wow!!. Congrats on your new camera.
Thank you! I want a Z90 or even Z70 pretty badly. I think I'd rather wait a while until they can make it with a fast stacked sensor now that I have the Z8.
I used the Sigma 150-600 lens.for a long time. It is on my Nikon z7 ll . I had some nice results. I don't remember if you have tried Sigma or Tamron.
I have not tried the sigma or the Tamron telephone zooms. I have heard good things about them.
Well done ! You make a great argument for the Z8. Now what about nikon's new apsc surprise?
@@danwilliams5335 Thank you! There’s nothing about a new APSC camera on Nikon rumors presently. I wish there was.
Update: I did see the Z50II rumors. It's not really what I'm looking for. I want an APSC camera with the larger EN-EL15 battery type battery. Many APSC Nikons have used this size battery historically. I would like to see either a stacked APSC sensor (unlikely) or have them fit it with the same sensor in the a6700 which seems possible. Nikon gets their sensors from Sony. But, if it has the same 20.9mp sensor as the Z30, Zfc and Z50, I don't think I'm interested. I'll just use the Z8 which is 19mp in crop mode.
I enjoyed hearing your thought process on getting the Z8. If I ever hit the lottery there will be signs, a new z8! 🤣but I would have to play the lottery to win which I don't. 😆 One day I hope to have enough saved up to get the Z8 or its replacement.
Thank you! I don’t play the lottery either.
How would you compare the autofocus with the R6ii to the Z8? The Z8 resolution better for wildlife photography obviously. I could see using the video a lot.
That's a great question that is very difficult to answer. I am satisfied with the autofocus of both. Neither is perfect.
@@PhilThach I have a ton of money in Fuji… but I do want a full frame at some point. I will always have a Fuji but wildlife is definitely more of a challenge with their autofocus from 7 years ago. The A7V might be interesting too. I have no lenses so I’m wide open
@@dccoletrain A7V probably will not have a stacked sensor, which kills the model totally compared to R5II and Z6III...
@@pentagramyt417 definitely won’t be stacked but I also don’t shoot high frames often. Just want the best hybrid autofocus
@@dccoletrain I think they want to separate AS LONG AS POSSIBLE A7-V from A9 / A1 series. Stacked Sensor, 4k120, pre-capture.. I reaaaly doubt it will be in that model. High frame rates - sure, maybe 15, maybe 20 fps, probably 4k60 no crop, MAAAAYBE 4k120 but with high crop I don't know, I don't think it will be but yeah.. The limitations from sensor will come there. AI features will be added as A7CII, and so on.. They try to cut as much as possible. For me A6700 would be ideal even for 1k$ more but with stacked sensor and pre-capture... THAT THE ONLY TWO PIECES MISSED in that camera. They had intention to cut that features! :|
Message to all the people in UA-cam comments constantly droning on about AF. If you can’t get the shot with current generation of Sony, Canon, Nikon… the problem is YOU, not the camera.
That's a good point. They are all capable at this time.
you have slimeed phil, hope u are getting better and better
Thank you! I lost 30 pounds and then immediately afterwards I had a heart attack. That’s kind of strange I thought!! I am feeling much better.
Glad to see you’re doing well again after the heart attack Phill 😊
I shoot mainly products and Athletes for work and sports photography as a hobby.
I had looked at 5 cameras this past summer but I’m holding out.
A1 - too expensive and overpriced
A6700- terrible evf and a tad slow
Z8- too heavy for my liking and people autofocus still too jumpy. Also evf could he better
R5ii - A bit pricey, sold out and the 70-200 is not on par with Sony’s 70-200 GMaster OS ii. And the 100-500 although super sharp has that f7.1
R6ii too low resolution and lacos focus bracketing with flash
R7 too much rolling shutter and shutter shock
Hoping Sony release a higher megapixel camera that can shoot at least 15-20 fps and doesn’t cost a fortune. Hek a stacked A6700 with nice evf wouid probably finally get le to upgrade.
Z8 is probably the best overall option at this time. Can’t wait to see some of your sports photography vids.
Thank you! I haven't been shooting sports as much recently. I need to get back into it.
@@PhilThach yes for sure. Liked those vids a lot.
Hi Phil, 💯
@@PamHaynes-oo3ck Hello! 👋
The Z8 is a lot cheaper than I thought it was going to be. I was afraid it was going to be $5 to $6 grand. I might get the Z8ii when it comes out. I was in Banff many years ago. I saw a lot of mountain goats. From the ground they look like snow patches. Zoom in and you will see they are goats. Congrats to you and Heather.
I am very pleased with Nikon's price point choice on the Z8. We hope to see lots of wildlife including grizzly bears, just not up close with the bears. :)
@@PhilThachyeah hope you get the grizzly at 600mm. I also saw porcupines on the path.
You forgot the BEST aps-c camera ... the X-H2S 😎
You're right, I did not mention that camera. I'm not a big fan of the raw files produced by X-Trans sensors or the Fujifilm autofocus system but if you can deal with those two things, the X-H2S is certainly a great option.
Man, my Angelbird 1TB card was only $175 for me! I have so much space on my R5 I don't know what to do with it!
@@OhhhhhhhBugger awesome!
Maybe heat affect cards properties .
I.E : Some cards work good in hot and cold environment , Some are good in Cold environment only ?
That's possible.
Hello, friend! I'm glad to see you've recovered well from your heart attack. Also, congratulations on your upcoming marriage. PS Your knowledge of cameras has surpassed that of Miatas. 8^)
@@tomshirleysr.44 hi Tom! Who would’ve thought that 1.3 megapixel digital camera I bought 24 years ago to take pictures of Miatas would turn into this. 🤷♂️
Outstanding, better set up than Sony!
Exactly my reasoning too. I wait for an apsc stacked sensor from either Canon or Nikon (more likely might appear from Nikon). Where is it!!! even Fuji has one and OM1 stacked is on version 2. My daily cam is R7 with the adapted EF 100-400mm F5.6 MK2. We have poor light in UK so Canons F9, F11 even the F7.1 zoom disappointed me no purchase from me. I plan on the Z8 with the 180-600mm. I'm still debating whether to get the 600mm prime instead though. UK price for the R5 II is an eye watering £4499.00 which is US $5,901.49.
Thank you! They say the 600 PF is even sharper than the 180-600. I liked the 180-600 price better.
@@PhilThach The R7 with the 100-400mm is light enough to deal with my quick zoom moments so considering I'm looking for reach most of the time the prime 600mm is looking good don't forget it's way lighter too so a two camera walkabout is feasible.
Why do you compare Angelbird CFX-B with Sony CFX-A cards? There are already quite cheap CFX-A cards. Still a bit more expensive than B, but not the price of Sony cards. And that allows you to have dual CFX cards in a small body, while dual CFX-B cards you can only get in bodies with integrated grip (because of heat dissipation).
Because the Anglebird cards are a known commodity to me. Still, even the cheaper type A cards are more expensive than type B, and even the expensive type A cars are slower than type B. Sony really needs to switch to type B in their next-generation cameras. I'm not a wedding photographer so dual cards are not a buying motivator for me.
They make Sony E to Nikon Z adapters .
@@bobblair8482 indeed, but the question is how well do they work?
Hi Phil, Do you now recommend the Z8 and 180-600 lens over the R7 and 100-500 for bird photography?
Yes, I do but the Z8 180-600 combo is more expensive and heavier than the R7 100-500 combo so you might want to take those two factors into consideration.
@PhilThach Thanks very much Phil 🙂 At the moment I have the R7 and 100-500 and my old trusty D500 and the 200-500. Nikon hit it out of the park with both the Z8 and 180-600 lens! The internal zoom is a big help too. I have a decision to make
Hi Phil. I don't know if you ever consider buying used camera. I know A1 is officially $6500 but I don't know anyone who paid $6500 for it. It was going for about $4800 slightly used pretty much shortly after it was announced and I've seen them recently down to about $3700 on KEH and other places. Thus in my mind I never thought of A1 is $6500 camera, since one can always get it in $4000 range pretty easily and it is built like a tank so buying used is not a problem. I can get a used A1 cheaper than Canon R5 Mark II. A9mark II I've seen used about $1.5K cheaper than retail but I have not tried it. I' have owned a couple of A1s, Canon R5 and R5II now, and the other cameras with stacked sensor you did not consider - Olympus OM1 and Fuji XH2s. Now I have not tried Nikon Z8 and Z9, the last Nikons I owned were Z6 and Z7 of first generation but i had owned every Nikon DSLR since D40 through D850. Nikon is attractive because they have these slightly slower tele primes like 400, 500, 600 and 800 that cost a lot but not over $10K. I guess I am going to rent Z8 to check it out.
Used is an excellent idea. I agree with basically your entire comment!
Hi Phil, great vidéo, you didnt Talk about the Sony 7RV, 61Mpx...., what do you think about it? Here in Switzerland costs about 4000 sfr
@@fabisax4957 sounds like a great camera for landscape photography! However, I was looking for something with a stacked fast read out speed sensor, which that camera does not have.
@@PhilThach thanks for ur answer 😀
You talked yourself into this one...
I suppose I did. On a purchase of this size, it's good to know as many facts as possible so you can make an informed decision.
Thank you, how in the world are you able to learn to be proficient with 3 different brands?
Thank you! There are more similarities than differences. Once you learn where aperture, shutter speed and ISO are, the rest doesn't matter that much.
It just came out. Title is kinda weird as I think of it worded that way when one buys a five plus year old model. still, good stuff
@@DSG0805 it came out in May of 2023, I ordered mine in July of 2024, the day that the Canon R5 Mark II was announced. Thank you.
@@PhilThach oh I know, it just is still fairly new, and like I said that formed title usually with people buying much older cameras.
Yes the Sony is more expensive but when it comes down to it Sony is cheaper if you want a zoom lense 24-70 or 14-24mm it’s $2200-$2500 each where Sony you can get sigma and get it for $1000-1200 way more lenses than Nikon and better prices
@@DanBallzerian that’s a very good point but my main goal is bird photography and I already have the 180-600 which is cheaper than the 200-600 even after a price increase.
I had Z8 and Nikon Z 180-600, I love Z8 but the lens didn't go well with Z8, may be I got a bad copy, my photos at 600mm were all soft, I was disappointed how could this happen, may be Z8 high resolution was too much for 180 - 600.
That sounds like my experience with the Canon 200-800. That's why I sent it in to Canon for them to check it out. They said my lens was operating normally. Fortunately my Nikon 180-600 is sharp wide open at 600mm even on the Z8.
@@PhilThach Happy you got a good copy of Z 180-600, enjoy your shoot, I didn't send my Z 180-600 ti Nikon, I would get the same answer what you got for canon 😕
Great to see you looking so well and very smartly dressed.
I have watched several of your videos and every time you complain about the RF 200-800 not being sharp at the long end. I have this lens since April and mine is sharp on the R6 Mark II and the new R5 Mark II from 200-800 at all given apertures. It’s excellent for video as well and when compared with the RF 100-500 is only two thirds of a stop slower at 800 and you get 300mm additional reach. It is way, way better than using the 100-500 plus 1.4 extender in my opinion.
The new Canon R5 Mark ii has elimated rolling shutter as far as I can see and the fantastic pre capture gives you a half second pre full shutter press and you get max 15 images, raw or jpegs depending on your choice. To me the R5 Mark II is the best camera I’ve ever had. The only gripe I have with it, is the battery. It drains quite fast.
Thank you! We'll have to agree to disagree about the 200-800. As you know, I find it to be a little soft wide open. I'm certain the R5 Mark II is great. I just couldn't justify paying several hundred more for a camera with a slower sensor. The R5 Mark II also has an anti-aliasing filter that I prefer to not have and Canon bakes in some noise reduction in their raw files from what I understand. I did send my 200-800 to Canon repair to make sure there is not a problem with my copy. They said it is operating properly.
👍👍👍👍
Thank you!
Still not jumping back to nikon until they get their focus together not worth it for me.
I've been mostly pleased with the focus so far.
Whatever you do, don’t try out the Canon R5 II !!!
That's a great comment. Peaking the FOMO in me :)
The Nikkor 200-600 doesn't have the same reach as the Canon RF 200-800 whatever way you put it + Nikon's AF is nowhere near as good as the offerings from Canon/Sony. I've tried them all.
@@geoffreyconnor4589 while I agree the 180 to 600 does not go to 800, the 200-800 is not as sharp as the 180-600. I think I’d rather have a sharp 600 mm shot than a slightly soft 800 mm shot.
@@PhilThach I'd prefer the RF 100-500 on the R5 or R3. Way better AF even over the Z9.
@@geoffreyconnor4589in my opinion r5 af isn’t better especially when things are moving, R3 is similar but too low resolution. I owned them all, canon and Nikon, until I recently left canon because maintaining two systems stopped making sense to me. The final straw was 2 out of 3 R5ii presenting issues.