wolfbyte3171 more fiction needs minions with less commitment to the bit. With "evil mega company" being so popular, I'd expect more 9-5 minions then goons loyal to the end.
Notice how the moment Yzma crossed the line, the moment we ALL decided she was irredeemable and had to go, was the moment she told Kronk, her sweet, loyal, enthusiastic minion who loves cooking (and always cooked for her) that she never liked his spinach puffs.
@@Multifandom_mess12 and a loyalty type minion who's loyalty was apparently built on lies of her appreciation for him. So, that reveal cracked his loyalty allowing him to become the wholesome good guy himbo he was always meant to be
"...crowns himself super cool god-emperor of everything, and then takes off on his blimp to burn the world down" is now my favorite combination of words in the english language.
@@loturzelrestaurant do you mean avatar? It's a damn solid 9 or 10, but only because it's a cartoon where you get a lot of wiggle room and leniency. It's perfect for its given medium. But I didn't know it was rated the best ever. And I'm sure you could nitpick a lot of it but I'm not sure those nitpicks ultimately matter.
That's because Megamind is a Submissive Masterpiece that was out shined by a shitty cash grab that we now know is shit because hindsight is a thing that does horrific wonders.
Every time i hear azula is 14 it hurts me. She's just a kid. Even when its a character, i hate when people drive children to ruin, especially if its a parent.
I might despise Loser Lord Ozai more than any other animated villain I've ever seen simply due to how much of an asshole he is to his own children, and a disturbingly realistic asshole at that.
Yea but I mean come on, Azula was having a great time being horrible to everyone right up until the moment she starts losing. She displays not one ounce of compassion or remorse at any point. She's not just a victim, she's basically just like her father. Even at a very young age she displays psychopathic tendencies. She didn't get driven to ruin against her will, she dove headfirst into it.
@@zoro115-s6b This could lead into a fascinating "nature vs. nurture" argument. In addition to Ozai, there's also the factor of Ursa to consider. Zuko and Azula's mom was undoubtedly the more benevolent and loving fo the two parents, but she gave her attention to Zuko, who was more obviously mistreated by Ozai. Azula, by contrast, was encouraged to impress her father with talents that mirrored his own, but they were the very qualities that put her mother at a distance from her. I'm not blaming Ursa for the way Azula turned out, just stating that her influence was a deciding factor in Zuko's development, and also in Azula's. Iroh is another parental figure whose positive influence on Zuko cannot be overstated. However, I don't believe we ever see him even interact with Azula outside of the battles in the show, likely due to her own disinterest in her "fuddy duddy" (her words) uncle. It's difficult to tell which came first, the chicken (Azula's cruelty) or the egg (her father's manipulation and fostering of that cruelty). But we CAN clearly see that one informs the other, and they feed on each other like a pair of Ouroborous, growing ever bigger and sprialling out of control inside her until we get the tire fire that is her psyche in the show.
@@ingonyama70 Personally I'd say it's a pretty clear cut case of different natures in the case of Zuko and Azula. I'm sure that Ozai tried to turn Zuko into the psycopathic firebending prodigy that he'd always wanted, but even from an early age we see that Zuko just isn't that. Azula, on the other hand, wholeheartedly and without reservation accepted Ozai's philosophy and rejected the very concepts of trust and love. And let's not forget that, while it seems that the current firelord can designate a successor, Zuko was the heir apparent as the firstborn. Turning him into Ozai's idea of a good firelord would be top priority. I'm pretty sure that Azula could have grown up in the most healthy, caring family in the world and still become a manipulative bully.
I’d say Lord Ozai focused on Azula more than Zuko, not because he couldn’t corrupt Zuko, but because Azula’s skills developed faster. It’s a simple case of when some kids develop faster and are labeled as gifted. Ozai saw himself in Azula’s gifted nature and poured himself into developing her rather than Zuko. That, and because their mother was so protective of Zuko, Ozai didn’t get the chance to influence him as much as Azula. I disagree that Zuko was just less corruptible because of one particular scene. Zuko shows his mom something Azula taught him and throws stuff at some turtle ducks. His mom immediately tells him that doing that is wrong. This scene shows that kids don’t inherently know right from wrong, it’s something they are taught and absorb over time. Azula was heavily influenced by her father to believe that she was above any of those moral high grounds and that control and power were more important. Zuko has other forces in his life that push him towards morality. So, yea...😊
Lord Evil: "Thank you for coming to this interview. I've read your resume, and was wondering if you can tell me a little about why you'd like to join the evil empire?" Kronk da Ork: "Kronk smash!" Lord Evil: "Well, we offer a wide range of 'smashing' opportunities, ha, ha. Do you have any other skills you bring to the table?" Kronk da Ork: "Kronk have diploma in graphic design from Mordor Community College. Kronk volunteer, design uniform for college dwarf-smashing team." Lord Evil: "Excellent, we value creativity here at the evil empire. All these gloomy, Gothic fortresses don't design themselves. We'll check your references, and someone from Minion Relations will be call you to let you know if you got the position."
I am a christian and I always try to tell people the best parts of themselves to help others Romans 12:8 says "if it is to encourage, then give encouragement; if it is giving, then give generously; if it is to lead, do it diligently; if it is to show mercy, do it cheerfully." This your gift. Give.
@@emiljosefsson9149 it means you subconsciously noticed it. There's always subconscious storytelling in really good stories or scenes. Mr. Robot does this in almost every scene.
What i meant was that i've never thought of it before and i was suprised by how much sense it makes now that it's been spelled out to me. Maybe my subconscious noticed it before i did, maybe not. Point is; I did not notice it until i saw this video. Also; Why are we even having this discussion, anyway? I guess we humans love discussing inconsequential nonsense :P.
Frieza: "Sometimes I get the feeling my minions don't understand what I pay them for." Zarbon: "You don't pay us, sir." Frieza:" I mean allow them to live for."
@@coromo4978 It is a referenz from Dragonball Abridged (by TeamFourStar) which is a parody/redubbing of the Dragonball anime (by Fuji TV). It is not an officaly liscensed show but that doesn't stop it from being funny. Your Mileage might vary depending on if you watched the original Dragonball anime/cartoon or not.
@@Avatarbee I have never watched Dragonball, and I can safely say that Dragonball Abridged is really amazing all on its own even without the original show for context.
@@allanjbucknol4414 You think that now, but just wait until Red builds a huge death cannon out of ancient mytho-history and coffee mugs, then you'll be singing a different tune.
Tropes can be tools for a good story. MFA and ATLA are excellent at using the tropes to weave a great story, unlike many other movies, books, TV shows, etc. If you are surprised when you find out that Villain X is actually just a minion, then the writer did a good job. The same goes for every trope.
@@Fluffkitscripts Which is ironic cos Alan Moore, the author of the damn thing, straight up says he doesn't thinks it's that great of a story and ultimately doesn't fit the type of character Joker actually is just on the basis of essentially being a melodrama about the personal motivations of an unapologetic psychopath.
Joker is the perfect counter to batman because joker is just... random. Give him a backstory and it takes away from the randomness. *what is it with people and making the joker sympathetic? his only bloody* *purpose is to annoy batman!*
The Killing Joke wasn't meant to characterize the Joker though. It wasn't HIS story. I'm not saying I'm a fan, just the the purpose wasn't to do anything to the Joker. It was meant to cripple and traumatize Barbara, traumatize Gordon, and to try to prove to Batman that everyone is just as crazy as he is, or could become that way.
Let us not forget the greatest minion of all time: that guy in BTAS who saw Batman going through his boss' stuff and, recalling that he still had a black eye from the last time this happened, quietly closed the door and walked away.
I remember one minion Batman was interrogating who thought it’d be funny to answer Batman’s questions by insulting him in, Mandarin, I think. You could feel the “Oh… shit.” when Bruce responded in the same language.😂
My favorite villain that treats his minions well is Bowser from Super Mario. Sure, he wants to conquer the Mushroom Kingdom yaddy yadda, but Nintendo really took the time to develop him as more than that. To the rest of his universe he may look like just a bombastic megalomaniacal warmongering conqueror (and he very much is all of this), but as far as we are concerned, as much of a tyrant as he may be, he’s apparently a surprisingly good and competent king, as shown by how his people genuinely and unconditionally adore him. The fact that his villainy is already quite affable in the first place certainly helps. And top it all of, he’s not only a good king, he’s also a good dad: we know after Sunshine that one of the reasons he’s so hellbent on kidnapping Peach is that so Bowser Junior can have a mother figure in his life, and it’s all but said that he would gladly go through hell and back to ensure his son’s safety should anything happen to him.
Idea for a trope talk I'd love to hear covered. Protagonists and their persistent "No Kill Rule". I mean, like, seriously I'd LOVE to hear your opinion on this
It started with comic writers not wanting to made new villains each comic. They didn't have time or space to create a new villain in the few pages they had to write a story. Many shows adopted it later because the same applied to weekly cartons. In cases where it isn't being used for budget concerns(think modern batman or MHA), it is just a case of "lawful good" protagonist.
@@amirabudubai2279 It's also frequently a restriction of the production, especially if the intended audience is children. But that doesn't necessarily keep it from being impactful. Spider-Man, for instance, was produced under the direction of the Comics Code Authority, where the hero killing people was prevented by editorial mandate. But because that restriction has been a part of Spider-Man's characterization from the beginning, it's going to be dissonant to see Peter Parker killing someone.
The pros and cons of how to gain and keep evil minions (translation: backstories) are often the same as their narrative pros and cons. Besides an aspiring evil overlord (and therefore the writer) should have multiple ways of of keeping the heroes far away from home base.
I still like Carlos the Jakel's philosophy from bourne identity. Appeal to a mans greed, and they'll only help you till they find a better offer. rule by fear alone and they will do only enough to avoid pissing you off. Treat your minions fairly, help them in their time of need, and take care of their families, but punish disloyalty in the harshest manner possible, and you OWN them.
“You miscalculated. I love Zuko more than I fear you.” “No you miscalculated! You should’ve feared me more.” Is how I think that scene went. But does it even matter how exactly it was worded?
@@hanaomer4419 It sorta is because the same words in slightly different ordering might not have the 'punch' they should. Yeah i know i'm hypocritical for saying they matter while i don't care to fix it but still. Also this is how mandela's start with a "luke , i'm your father" so people get the reference to miss-remembering brand names to dead presidents
Holy shit, what if Ozai had fostered Zuko’s non bending skills? That’d be terrifying. He still probably makes Azula his heir while Zuko is his shadow cloaked enforcer. Imagine the fearful stories spread by earth kingdom soldiers about a mysterious fire bender, cloaked in black, wielding a variety of bladed weapons. He doesn’t even need his bending to take down an entire squad of soldiers.
Have you read the assassin!Zuko fics? Most of them on ao3 are basically his grandfather realising this and fostering the skills in him since he was still young. The only reasons he doesn't use those skills against Aang is because his mother killed Azulon, he is supposed to be the _Fire Nation_ prince (hence, a master firebender), and is trying to _capture_ the Avatar, _not_ kill him, not the the civilians around him. For fucks sake, Aang caused more property damage between them whenever they clash - Zuko has proved time and time again to _not_ use fire willy nilly.
13:45 when Azula was learning to create Lightning "Almost perfect, just a hair out of place" Azula very seriously puts her out of place hair back in "almost isn't good enough" Perfection is her everything
What about the romantic tropes? Sokka is most definitely the one with the best written romantic moments but the other characters, not as great. Avatar is amazing but it isn't perfect. Take it from someone who sees that show as a childhood masterpiece.
Actual affection between villains and their minions (both one-sided and two-sided) makes for a lot more depth! You're right... I expect the villain to be terrible to the hero, but seeing how his own people see and are treated by the villain goes a long way to shape my opinion of them.
Except in Transformers: Cybertron, where he was actually successful in swaying the vast majority of Decepticons to his side and was a scary and effective villain.
@@sirdevonaire3249 What do you mean; it didn't last long? In Cybertron, Megatron never fully retook power from Starscream until near the end, and Starscream's fight with Galvatron (upgraded Megatron) near the end was a pretty close call.
20 seconds or 20 million years. It doesn't matter. Star is, and forever will be a "cunt with wings". But remember, he's OUR cunt with wings. 😉 Thank you Tumblr for what is now my new favorite go to nickname for Starscream.
I have to say, i would kinda enjoy a series in which Aang never resurfaces, the fire nation continues their conquest unbothered and Zuko is left chasing an antagonist, inaccessably chilling under the ice. I mean, would he eventually get behind that his father send him on an impossible mission to get rid of him? How would he react to this revelation? Would he never give up on his obsession and continue his search until he eventually breaks or would he maybe start questioning the fire nation and openly opposing it, trying to reach out to other nations with the help of Iroh and the white lotus, sharing military secrets and making up plans to stop Ozai. What advise about destiny would Iroh have to offer in that situation?
Given another year, maybe two of fruitless searching and Zuko almost certainly would've been fully ousted from Fire Nation backing. General whats-his-face was trying to do exactly that early in the series. Stubborn as he is Zuko wouldn't just give up, so he'd keep the search up, but would be forced to interact with the normal citizenry similar to his travels through the earth kingdom. I've no doubt his uncle would follow him into pseudo-exile. Coupled with Zuko's natural empathy and strange ability to make friends quickly once he drops pretenses, it'd only be a matter of time before he convinces Zuko to give up entirely. From there I'd give good odds that they settle down to a quiet life for a while. If Azula doesn't show up just to screw with them, then their next big event comes when the White Lotus finds out Ozai is about to burn the world and taps Iroh to fight him. This eventually culminates in a massive battle where Zuko takes down Azula and her 'friends' by combining his Blue Spirit methods with the bending he learned from Iroh, after which Iroh drops Ozai with the same style he picked up from watching Zuko.
I used to think the Clones were my minions until they tried to kill me. Turns out they were really Darth Sidious's minions. That was not a good day for me. But still I think the Clone Army provides an excellent example of the minions serving a narrative purpose in the story that Red talks about. Not only did the Clone increase the Empire's power and villain by proxy of being an army to do the grunt work but the clones doing Order 66 completely changed the entire perspective of the Clone War. Instead of a standard war with good guys and bad guys the narrative completely shifts when you realize these guys were all just part of plan to orchestrate conflict to let the main bad guy secure power. The Clones also do wonders for examining the relationships soldiers have with their commanders and the idea of soldiers being more loyal to a Higher Authority rather than their direct Commanding Officer. So who should you be more loyal to? The Commanding Officer who you've probably spent more personal time with and might even be your friend or the higher authority who is ultimately in charge? And if you yourself are the Commending Officer or the Higher Authority can you count on your soldiers to be loyal to you or the other guy? These are some really interesting questions and I've been pondering them ever since I first saw Episode III as a kid.
I think these are good points and interesting questions. Considering how absolute the betrayal was in the movie, I interpreted that as a sign of just how absolute the programming/brainwashing of the clones was. Like, if these were normal people with normal socialization than you'd expect there to be at least a few that put personal loyalty first and helped their commanders escape, but instead we see no hesitation from any of the clones.
Goth Mom iirc, wasn’t the reason the clone troopers turned on the Jedi the control chips? With the reason those specific clone troopers didn’t do so being that they removed them?
Calling Entrapta a personally motivated minion over footage of her interacting with Hordak is so funny, because she was one of HIS minion’s personally motivated minion, and then broke into his office to fix his broken robots and became his love interest who he treated as and considered a full equal, WHILE she still worked as his minion’s minion.
Mad Love saying more about The Joker than The Killing Joke is a hot take that I fully support. I am full on sick of the Joker/Harley fandom that portrays them as some kind of sexy Bonnie and Clyde. It's a horrible abusive relationship.
@Tom Ffrench I wouldn't go that far, but his psychosis is such a wreck that the concepts of love or devotion are fleeting at best. He resets. You don't know which version you're going to get. There was an amazing story where Joker got injured badly and Harley went to break him out of the medical facility at Arkham. He woke up as a complete monster and attempted to kill her and then went on a rampage attempting to murder everyone who ever worked for him.
Every time I watch your trope talks I want to rewatch Avatar That three second scene where Mai and Ty Lee team up against Azula gives me chills every time I see it
No lie, my brother once had a gf that behaved almost word for word, exactly like Azula in that scene when something didn't go her way. Entirely funny later down the line as we're both fans of AtLA
It's a beautiful scene really. Azula's look of complete shock that her own minions would turn on her is heartbreaking. As twisted and cruel as she is, you can't help but feel immensely sorry for her.
If you feel like that on this channel, you should watch Hello Future Me, he talks eevn more frequently about atla, if you can imagine. And he had a couple colaborations with red and blue as well
"Greed's dynamic with his minions shows us very early on that he's not like the other Homunculi in that he actually cares about the people close to him, and this, in turn, hints that maybe he's not as *ironclad* in his villainy as the others..." D-did you just-? "Um, Greed covers himself in carbon, not iron-" LET ME HAVE THIS!
One of my favorite minion moments in Avatar: Sokka impersonates the captain of the ship. Cut to two guards making small talk like regular coworkers who don't usually get to see one another. Then "I can't believe the captain remembered my Birthday! He really does care!"
"It's fun to watch them succeed, and it's cathartic to watch them finally crack" the funny thing is, I'd say that what makes Envy in Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood interesting is that it is not fun or cathartic. Envy's biggest moment of success (them killing Hughes) is the saddest moment in the whole series. As for the moment Envy finally cracks after being confronted by Roy Mustang, it should be cathartic to see Envy get what was coming to them. But it isn't; instead, it is horrifying to watch, as the focus is not on Envy falling apart, but on Roy falling apart in his pursuit of vengeance.
"it should be cathartic to see Envy get what was coming to them." I was under the impression envy was a boy? Is he not? They refer to him with male pronouns in the show. Am I missing something here?
@@Turtle_time47 I just used plural pronouns because of the shapeshifting and because of Envy being a homunculus. You're right that other characters refer to Envy with male pronouns.
When the Fullmetal: Brotherhood clips of Ling screaming at Greed appeared I felt chills up my spine The scenes in that anime are so emotionally deep It's incredible
My English teacher taught me something. Protagonist doesn’t equal a hero. Antagonist doesn’t equal bad guy. Antagonist is just someone who opposes the Protagonist. The Antagonist could be a good guy.
Zuko’s the best fighter because he’s a jack of all trades. He’s not an expert in fire bending like Azula the born-lucky prodigy, but he made up for that by learning a bunch of diverse skills that even if he was no expert in singly, together, knowing them all, makes him a serious flexible, versatile powerhouse. Which actually makes him a lot more skilled and adaptable than Azula and Ozai, who only know how to be experts in how you’re apparently supposed to firebend. Jack of all trades, master of none, better than a master of one.
Iain McDonald's Still true. But she doesn’t have a host of different fighting skills like using duel swords, and I doubt she knows how to use other bending techniques in firebending, like using waterbending techniques to redirect lightning. Don’t get me wrong, she’s still badass, but she only knows how to be the perfect firebending fighter according to how Fire Nation society deems them. She never had a chance to be more well-rounded. She was always playing the strict, predictable role of the perfect prodigy and nothing else. No one had the same expectations for Zuko once it was clear he didn’t really fit the role, so he kind of got a better chance to be more diversely skilled.
Zuko is probably the only bender in the series where, if Ty Lee got a good shot at his bending, would still be able to fight back. Also smart enough from the get go to know not to get hit by Ty Lee at all. I like to imagine that Azula actually invited Ty Lee to practice on Zuko when they were children, both retarding his fire bending so Azula looks better and teaching Zuko another part of his absolute stubbornness and unwillingness to give up in the face of impossible odds.
I haven't seen it and only know anything about it through pop culture osmosis/social media. Are...all the main characters evil minions? Cause that's what I'm getting from this
When Red said 'personally motivated minions' Star Scream immediately sprung into my head. It also helps that she included him on the Thumbnail. Transformers Prime is up there as one of the best, if not the best Transformer TV shows and even adaptions. Also when Red said 'The only reason they keep them around is beach they do good work.' did anyone else think of Doctor Aphra from the Vader comic series?
The man's a ninja. The times when he's wearing that black outfit are my two favorite episodes. I have to restrain myself every time I praise him because I'm an obsessed fanboy.
@@bluesbest1 Always wondered where he got the training tho. Doesn't seem like it wld be part of the fire prince curriculum to learn stealth and ninjitsu
And while he may not be a prodigy, let's not forget he's a TEENAGER with loads of learning to go- working on fire bending AS WELL as the other combat and learning the expected princely behaviors and honor. So super far reaching in his list of talents- and let's not forget while we're not forgetting, he isn't a BAD fire bender, just not a prodigy...
@@andrewholmes2850 Because I've never read the comics, my accepted headcanon is that his mother, who apparently had enough knowledge of poison and stealth to kill a Fire Lord in his sleep, trained him in becoming an assassin, while Piandao taught him in canon to wield the swords. I mean, think about it. Daddy's girl was all "Look at me, I'm the Princess! Bow to me!" While Momma's boy goes "pay no attention to me, I'm not here, even though I just slit your throat." I also prefer to think Ursa wandered the Earth Kingdom for seven(?) years with a bow and arrow or something, or even became a mercenary or something. Honestly, anything would be better than what canon says she did.
@@bluesbest1 strange but very very interesting. It cld have a semblance of truth tho since zukos blue spirit mask was one of his mother's theatre masks.
Have you ever done the Evil Twin trope? Because Darkwing Duck needs some representation, and Negaduck is one of the most popular villains from that show.
If so, I hope she touches on a _certain character_ from the Ace Attorney series. They managed to pull that trope off really well, and I think part of the reason they did was because we were introduced to the evil twin long before the good twin. Usually it's the other way around.
AtarahDerek oh I have OC twins with one being evil XD they’re not good OCs at all. Basic as fuck. But I use and develop the evil one more because he’s more interesting to me XD
It makes sense that Greed is the outlier, since it's the most prevalent sin in all humans, but also the sin that isn't always wholly self-destructive, something that Greed himself points out to Edward later on in the series. "Everybody wants something they don't have." Even if they hadn't killed all his lackies, Greed definitely would've gone rogue from Father and the other homunculi eventually. He did it once, he was definitely going to do it again. Whether or not they killed his gang or whether or not his memories came back to him was somewhat inconsequential, however the loss of his "belongings" gave him the kick he needed to work alongside the Elrics against Father out of spite and also genuine care for the people in his life, even if he'd deny that last bit.
Another point in the Greed and FMA thing: I’m pretty sure the reason why villains tend to operate on strict hierarchical authoritarianism is because the audience will probably assume that way of running a group is bad in of itself as opposed to the more democratic way heroes typically operate. Hunter Hunter’s Phantom Troupe (York New City Spoilers) are another great example of how this trope can be subverted. The Troupe is extremely evil; the first thing you ever learn about them is they straight up committed a genocide of the clan one of the protagonists used to belong to. However, the Troupe operates democratically: they have a leader, but he constantly reminds the group that their loyalty is not to him, but to the Troupe itself and he should be considered disposable if trying to save him would compromise the group. This ends up making them much more interesting bad guys, because they actually have their own internal disagreements and drama, one of which just so happens to be whether or not they should risk their lives to help the boss. The cherry on the sundae is that the arc ends, not with the villains defeated, but with them choosing to no longer fight because they’ve lost too many of their own (which is only like two people out of twelve). This ending wouldn’t make any sense if the bad guys weren’t extremely sympathetic.
Heck, in most war movies the heroes are usually part of a chain of command, and in most war movies about wars after Vietnam they’re usually up against rebels or ragtag band of misfits. Completely flipping the narrative
Yeah seriously The worst obsessive antagonist Just because zuko's mom said she wished zuko wasn't his son He says so be it "I will treat him like a peasant's son" If he grants every wish then let her go in the first place😠😡
I do like that he’s a realistic abusive father/husband figure. Well, “realistic,” meaning, yes, most of those don’t have unfathomable wealth or a nation at their command, but singling out one child to be the scapegoat for the main abuse, and favoring the other child/children, while practically training them to be loyal and unquestioning with the underlying fear that they will fail somehow and become weak and deserving of the abuse heaped onto the scapegoat (“You can’t treat me like this! You _can’t_ treat me like- like Zuko!” -Azula near the end of the third season), is something abusers in a family do all the time. And twisting up a victim’s words and requests into more abuse, pretending that they’re doing what you want them to do, when they’re really just punishing you for rising up, is also very common. A lot of people can see their abusive parents/partners in Ozai. Which is a sign that you’re writing it right.
@@shorewall You aren't being coerced is you think you are helping the side of good. You are just misinformed. And during the hero's reveal the Useful Idiot may vehemently deny the accusations against the villain or be crushed if the villain does the revealing.
Annoying trope: Here's the bad guys for this series! Monster, Monster, Conventionally attractive person, and monster. Guess which one joins the good guys 3 episodes in?
That's why most people love Gonzales from Fire Emblem 6. He's a big ugly bandit with a hearth of gold but the mind of a 6 year old. Cliche i know but one of the few ass ugly characters that are licked by lots of people
I love the set up of these videos. First explaining the trope then the multiple variations on it show how much research you've done and how people who haven't can still understand the trope. It's also interesting how many times avatar either subverts or successfully uses a trope...
I love how red will introduce tropes ik I'm knowledgeable on, yet still show ways in which I've never thought about them and provide multilayered examples of said trope I hadn't considered.
I think Harry Potter did this well. The Death Eaters All had super interesting backstories and personalities that explained why they had the views that they did, instead of just being mindless servants.
well the ones that had personalities anyways, the one guy who was like "mm voldemort? hot, he has no nose, i am now a death eater" were basically just to show there were more than like 5
If Anakin ever gets too big for his britches I just tell him he's my minion. And if Darth Vader gets too big for _his_ britches I just tell him nothing changed and he's still a minion of Darth Sidious.
@@Farsinian He could literally have left the Jedi Order anytime he wanted to and done whatever he felt like with his life. Nothing was stopping him. He just wanted to have it both ways, to be a jedi but not follow any jedi rules.
WOW. Thank you so much for this whole episode. I've been building a D&D campaign with a major evil guild that is in short a shadow government working to hold or take all they want. Several "houses" all serve 1 big house that is hardly ever know. But I've been stuck on how to structure there characters. This has helped out alot.
I just finished watching She-Ra and the part of minions following the villains because of love, where you showed Scorpia and Catra broke me. The saddest thing is that for most part, Scorpia tries her best to not hurt anyone and has helped Adora a handful of times before she officially switched to the good side. She wasn't even scary, she was kind and wholesome and treated pretty much anyone nicely. Even while fighting the good guys, there's no form of manipulation or threats from her part. It's usually just "I'm doing this for Catra" or "Catra told me to do this" and it changed from love to fear so quickly. I'm glad she got to stand up against Catra and leave though. Also, about the sympathetic villain with moral viewpoints, a good example is the Red Lotus from Legend of Korra. Not only did Zaheer have understandable motivation of granting freedom to everyone (though he went about it very poorly), all of the members seem to care deeply about each other. Zaheer is heartbroken when P'Li is killed -and starts flying- and Ghazan decides to kill himself with Bolin and Mako _after_ he heard Minghua's scream while she was being killed. It's kinda heartbreaking how only Zaheer survived in the end.
This could be a fun and unusual topic! And there's plenty of characters and uses for it. Deadpool, Sans, Monika, that one tiny horse, Emperor's New Groove, etc etc. Heck, just breaking the fourth wall doesn't even need a self-aware character (tho it makes it much easier)
"Increase their evil portfolio" Now I'm just imagining some big evil dude with nasty spikes and glowing green eyes going through a quarter life crisis trying to get his art career off the ground.
Overly Sarcastic Productions I'm sure you guys get a lot of these sorts of things but I think that a Trope Talk that could be interesting to hear you talk about is the trope of the Comic Relief. I think it would be interesting to see what defies it, how it's been excellently or poorly executed in media and it's role in a grand story. I hope you all have an awesome day and that you have the best of luck in all your future projects and endeavors.
Not gonna lie, I've rewatched Avatar about ten times in a row, during this month alone. It really is amazing. I feel like each time I've watched it, I've discovered something new about the characters and world. Your breakdown of Ozai was _awesome._
Huh. Wow, I didn't even think about the symmetry thing between Zuko, Azula and their father, but you're totally right! That makes so much sense! Also, as good as this video is, I kinda wish you went more in depth about the benefits of comedic minions in certain stories. The best stories to place them in, the best way to utilize them and their comedic potential as well as how their dynamic with their villain can be affected by comedy. Apparently, a minion that comes to the minds of many in this comment section is Kronk. And I agree. I feel he could've been a great example for this dynamic of the trope talk. Heck, you could probably make a whole separate trope talk about specifically comedic minions, and if that's what you're planning, then I most certainly look forward to it. :)
Some of my favorite minion/villain interactions are in the second season of castlevania, where Dracula (the main villain) has 4 primary minions, each of which are involved in a plot behind his back, with 2 of them being his allies and 2 of them being his enemies, it's a very entertaining dynamic to watch.
My favorite minions have to be the D'arby brothers. The first one we see in a poker game with a near 100% chance of winning, but in order to win he has to reveal the secret of DIO's Stand. The pressure of Jotaro even having the slightest advantage gets to him so horribly that he ages prematurely and basically fucking dies. THE DUDE WAS SO TERRIFIED OF DIO THAT HE DIED OF OLD AGE 30 YEARS EARLY! The second one just plays some video games to stall half the group but is mostly just out to avenge his bro.
It's worth saying properly, it's not that he has to reveal DIO's stand to win, it's that he has to reveal DIO's stand if he loses. He's so terrified of DIO that, even though he's fully aware that by all rights Jotaro has a terrible hand, the tinitest possibility that Jotaro somehow used his Stand to cheat, and that that might cause him to lose, that tiniest seed of doubt is enough to cause that much stress in him.
Telence T. D'Arby/D'Arby the Younger stated that, when he was 15, he once beat his older brother nearly to death, solely because the latter tried to flirt with the former's girlfriend. I don't think he'd want to avenge his brother, he probably wants to prove that he's better than him. Also, 'HITMAN (2016)' has a similar moment where an antagonist is defeated purely out of stress. In the game's (chronologically) final mission, 'Situs Inversus', one of the 2 targets is an aged ICA agent that went rogue so he can afford heart surgery. One way 47 can eliminate him is simply to approach him while wearing his red tie suit and rest his hand on the operating table. The target looks up, recognizes 47, mummers "You...", and dies on the spot out of pure shock and horror. Considering all the painful ways 47 can eliminate him in that mission, his reaction was appropriate.
I'd like to add that even if he won, he demonstrates by betting the secret of The World that hes a traitor, becuase at that moment he was willing to put DIO's life on a line. As Avdol stated "DIO does not take kindly to treason"
Let's all remember that one minion who got it right in Iron Man 3:
"Honestly, I don't even like working here, they're all so weird"
That's why 'Money' is the motivator that can lead to some of the funniest moments or great "face" turns.
That guy is up there with the smartest Batman goon who, when faced with Batman, closes the door and just goes "Nope".
Or those stormtroopers in The Force awakens who saw kylo ren having a tantrum and just left.
wolfbyte3171 more fiction needs minions with less commitment to the bit. With "evil mega company" being so popular, I'd expect more 9-5 minions then goons loyal to the end.
Yep
"We're just clones, sir. We're meant to be expendable."
"Not to me."
*Not to me.*
From where
Oh shit star wars I'm about to get destroyed
@@haniabdi1989 [insert destruction here]
That was in the pilot, too
Notice how the moment Yzma crossed the line, the moment we ALL decided she was irredeemable and had to go, was the moment she told Kronk, her sweet, loyal, enthusiastic minion who loves cooking (and always cooked for her) that she never liked his spinach puffs.
Kronk is a himbo who somehow found himself working for a villain
YES EXACTLY
@@Multifandom_mess12 and a loyalty type minion who's loyalty was apparently built on lies of her appreciation for him. So, that reveal cracked his loyalty allowing him to become the wholesome good guy himbo he was always meant to be
One does not simply insult Kronk's spinach puffs.
Moral to the story: don't diss the spinach puffs
This whole time my mind was just going:
*”K r O N k”*
"Pull the lever, Kronk!"
"WRONG LEVER"
The lever...... Yes the lever to open the hatch. The lever that was specifically designed to open the hatch to your secret hideout. The hatch lever.
Yes!!!😂
Kronk is the reason there needs to be one more on her list for why the minion follows the villain: stupidity
She made a pun with Azula. "A piping hot mess."
Noice
I'm too dumb to figure out the pun. Anyone, explain? :/ plz?
@@caodogao4327 It's either fire bending or she's cute to some people. I can't figure it out, myself
@@AWACS_Snowblind damn...
AMERICA EXBLAIN
@@caodogao4327 the pun is Azula is a fire bender and she said piping hot mess.
I'm reminded of a quote: "Minions; Evil, competent, loyal. Pick any two."
Good comment.
Thats really good 🤣🤣🤣
I would argue Azula hits all three.
@@tortis6342 and Vanilla Ice
@@ashikjaman1940 like… the rapper? I feel like I’m missing something.
"...crowns himself super cool god-emperor of everything, and then takes off on his blimp to burn the world down" is now my favorite combination of words in the english language.
When will this Channel extensively
cover the so-called BEST Power-System/Magic-System
in ALL of Fiction??
There's "cellar door", and in a close second place for shortest possible perfect sentence, is this 👌
@@loturzelrestaurant do you mean avatar? It's a damn solid 9 or 10, but only because it's a cartoon where you get a lot of wiggle room and leniency. It's perfect for its given medium. But I didn't know it was rated the best ever. And I'm sure you could nitpick a lot of it but I'm not sure those nitpicks ultimately matter.
Just want to say I'm the 666th like.
Pretty on-topic number.
@@loturzelrestaurant i think they made a podcast on that exact thing and posted it
For some reasons, Minion from Megamind was million times better than those yellow creatures from Despicable Me.
he spoke english and wasn't there because Lol randem XD
He had an actual narrative purpose and function in the protagonist's character arc
What the other people said, and Minion and Megamind have a good dynamic both emotionally and as a comedic duo through out the movie.
That's because Megamind is a Submissive Masterpiece that was out shined by a shitty cash grab that we now know is shit because hindsight is a thing that does horrific wonders.
Teal Trans Boi I think you mean “Subversive Masterpiece,” and yes I saw that video too.
Every time i hear azula is 14 it hurts me. She's just a kid. Even when its a character, i hate when people drive children to ruin, especially if its a parent.
I might despise Loser Lord Ozai more than any other animated villain I've ever seen simply due to how much of an asshole he is to his own children, and a disturbingly realistic asshole at that.
Yea but I mean come on, Azula was having a great time being horrible to everyone right up until the moment she starts losing. She displays not one ounce of compassion or remorse at any point. She's not just a victim, she's basically just like her father. Even at a very young age she displays psychopathic tendencies. She didn't get driven to ruin against her will, she dove headfirst into it.
@@zoro115-s6b This could lead into a fascinating "nature vs. nurture" argument.
In addition to Ozai, there's also the factor of Ursa to consider. Zuko and Azula's mom was undoubtedly the more benevolent and loving fo the two parents, but she gave her attention to Zuko, who was more obviously mistreated by Ozai. Azula, by contrast, was encouraged to impress her father with talents that mirrored his own, but they were the very qualities that put her mother at a distance from her. I'm not blaming Ursa for the way Azula turned out, just stating that her influence was a deciding factor in Zuko's development, and also in Azula's.
Iroh is another parental figure whose positive influence on Zuko cannot be overstated. However, I don't believe we ever see him even interact with Azula outside of the battles in the show, likely due to her own disinterest in her "fuddy duddy" (her words) uncle.
It's difficult to tell which came first, the chicken (Azula's cruelty) or the egg (her father's manipulation and fostering of that cruelty). But we CAN clearly see that one informs the other, and they feed on each other like a pair of Ouroborous, growing ever bigger and sprialling out of control inside her until we get the tire fire that is her psyche in the show.
@@ingonyama70 Personally I'd say it's a pretty clear cut case of different natures in the case of Zuko and Azula. I'm sure that Ozai tried to turn Zuko into the psycopathic firebending prodigy that he'd always wanted, but even from an early age we see that Zuko just isn't that. Azula, on the other hand, wholeheartedly and without reservation accepted Ozai's philosophy and rejected the very concepts of trust and love. And let's not forget that, while it seems that the current firelord can designate a successor, Zuko was the heir apparent as the firstborn. Turning him into Ozai's idea of a good firelord would be top priority.
I'm pretty sure that Azula could have grown up in the most healthy, caring family in the world and still become a manipulative bully.
I’d say Lord Ozai focused on Azula more than Zuko, not because he couldn’t corrupt Zuko, but because Azula’s skills developed faster. It’s a simple case of when some kids develop faster and are labeled as gifted. Ozai saw himself in Azula’s gifted nature and poured himself into developing her rather than Zuko. That, and because their mother was so protective of Zuko, Ozai didn’t get the chance to influence him as much as Azula.
I disagree that Zuko was just less corruptible because of one particular scene. Zuko shows his mom something Azula taught him and throws stuff at some turtle ducks. His mom immediately tells him that doing that is wrong. This scene shows that kids don’t inherently know right from wrong, it’s something they are taught and absorb over time. Azula was heavily influenced by her father to believe that she was above any of those moral high grounds and that control and power were more important. Zuko has other forces in his life that push him towards morality. So, yea...😊
Lord Evil: "Thank you for coming to this interview. I've read your resume, and was wondering if you can tell me a little about why you'd like to join the evil empire?"
Kronk da Ork: "Kronk smash!"
Lord Evil: "Well, we offer a wide range of 'smashing' opportunities, ha, ha. Do you have any other skills you bring to the table?"
Kronk da Ork: "Kronk have diploma in graphic design from Mordor Community College. Kronk volunteer, design uniform for college dwarf-smashing team."
Lord Evil: "Excellent, we value creativity here at the evil empire. All these gloomy, Gothic fortresses don't design themselves. We'll check your references, and someone from Minion Relations will be call you to let you know if you got the position."
This amazing :-) I love this.
Whoever you are, you are a genius and need to write more, you could write an entire book off just this
Eliyah McNeill Thanks. I’m definitely NOT a genius, but I do dabble in some creative writing.
@@calamusgladiofortior2814 I am no professional writer myself, but I know you have a gift
I am a christian and I always try to tell people the best parts of themselves to help others
Romans 12:8 says
"if it is to encourage, then give encouragement; if it is giving, then give generously; if it is to lead, do it diligently; if it is to show mercy, do it cheerfully."
This your gift.
Give.
Kronk da Ork: "Me also have hobbies like da cooking da puffs spinach"
I never thought about the parallel of Zuko and Azula losing the symmetry of their appearence before. That shit's deep.
You may not have noticed it, but your brain did
Don't really understand what this means but you're probably right ;).
@@emiljosefsson9149 it means you subconsciously noticed it. There's always subconscious storytelling in really good stories or scenes. Mr. Robot does this in almost every scene.
What i meant was that i've never thought of it before and i was suprised by how much sense it makes now that it's been spelled out to me. Maybe my subconscious noticed it before i did, maybe not. Point is; I did not notice it until i saw this video.
Also; Why are we even having this discussion, anyway? I guess we humans love discussing inconsequential nonsense :P.
@@emiljosefsson9149 absolutely. It's the Pinnacle of human excistence.
At this point, the biggest lesson taught by Trope Talks is that Avatar the Last Airbender is a fantastic series.
Yep
It's at least 95% of the reason I finally watched Avatar (and was not disappointed)
@@woodfur00 avatar needs a new season
(The first one is still best)
@markus eppstein why do you like season 1 the most?
@@koryfredrick1164 I mean it's better then The legend of korra
Frieza: "Sometimes I get the feeling my minions don't understand what I pay them for."
Zarbon: "You don't pay us, sir."
Frieza:" I mean allow them to live for."
Everyone should watch abdridged.
what show is this?
@@coromo4978 It is a referenz from Dragonball Abridged (by TeamFourStar) which is a parody/redubbing of the Dragonball anime (by Fuji TV). It is not an officaly liscensed show but that doesn't stop it from being funny. Your Mileage might vary depending on if you watched the original Dragonball anime/cartoon or not.
@@Avatarbee I have never watched Dragonball, and I can safely say that Dragonball Abridged is really amazing all on its own even without the original show for context.
I mean Frieza also pays Zarbon in thinking he's gay
Ozai and the Joker, both legendary villains we see being discussed about in this video, and both are played by the same person: Mark Hamill.
Joseph Cross so luke really did turn to the dark side after all!!!
Watch the Justice league action clip where The joker kidnaps Mark Hamill.
@@josephcross8464 its Mark Hamill roasting himself.
@@barrybend7189: Love the guy's sense of humor.
OZAI WAS MARK HAMILL THE WHOLE TIME!!!!!!!!!!!
“It’s time we talk about the underrated and ignored minions!”
ATLA fandom: I am 5 parallel universes ahead of you.
The entire Piggy fandom thinking about TSP: "I'm 20,000 dimensions ahead of you."
Oof, not a multiple of 4? Sounds like you’re QPU misaligned
No, you can't date the female guards.
@@aakarshasoka6335 trust me, you don’t want to- *OW!*
I can't believe the captain remembered my birthday! He really does care!
Are we as subscribers your evil minions?
No we are good
I prefer the term *celebrity guest star*
I think the correct question would be “what kind of minions are we?”
@@allanjbucknol4414 You think that now, but just wait until Red builds a huge death cannon out of ancient mytho-history and coffee mugs, then you'll be singing a different tune.
What about WORSHIPERS
"Avatar is so good, you guys"
Truer words have never been spoken and you keep teaching me new things about why.
I want a video of red just gushing about avatar for 20 minutes
The Legend of Korra is just slightly above average, though and often gets trashed by TLAB fans.
I KNOW RIGHT!
I just injoyed the show when I watched ed
...
now I realize it's genius story telling
@@1Maklak as a show, LoK is great, but as an Avatar sequel, its lacking and overall kinda garbage
Is there a place where the last airbender can be watched?
"You just can't find good minions these days." -Julius Caesar, 44 BC
maxis2k Well he was right. They did stab him 22 times
And Labienus ditched him
*The centurions of his 18 legions*
THEY DID WHAT TO HIM 22 TIMES?! REEEEEEEE
So glad someone brought up Labienus. He deserves way more attention than he's given
Before or during being stabbed?.
It's crazy that ATLA and FMA:B are so trope packed that they appear in almost every Trope Talk. Incidentally, they are both 'must-watch'es.
It's mostly in how they seem to subvert the tropes.
It’s how they write the tropes well, not just subverting them
@@urahara64360 not really subvert tropes.
They mostly do tropes good.
And there is nothing bad with tropes.
Tropes can be tools for a good story. MFA and ATLA are excellent at using the tropes to weave a great story, unlike many other movies, books, TV shows, etc. If you are surprised when you find out that Villain X is actually just a minion, then the writer did a good job. The same goes for every trope.
Which one? The early 2000 version or early 2010 version.
"Mad Love does more for the Joker's characterization than the entirety of The Killing Joke"
*THANK YOU*
Prepare for legions of angry fans, writing long comments beginning with “actually....”
@@Fluffkitscripts Which is ironic cos Alan Moore, the author of the damn thing, straight up says he doesn't thinks it's that great of a story and ultimately doesn't fit the type of character Joker actually is just on the basis of essentially being a melodrama about the personal motivations of an unapologetic psychopath.
@@hiimchrisj joker is like those GTA characters you put them in there they just do things.
Joker is the perfect counter to batman because joker is just... random. Give him a backstory and it takes away from the randomness. *what is it with people and making the joker sympathetic? his only bloody* *purpose is to annoy batman!*
The Killing Joke wasn't meant to characterize the Joker though. It wasn't HIS story. I'm not saying I'm a fan, just the the purpose wasn't to do anything to the Joker. It was meant to cripple and traumatize Barbara, traumatize Gordon, and to try to prove to Batman that everyone is just as crazy as he is, or could become that way.
Let us not forget the greatest minion of all time: that guy in BTAS who saw Batman going through his boss' stuff and, recalling that he still had a black eye from the last time this happened, quietly closed the door and walked away.
Smart
If I recall, he even got a fellow minion away from where Batman was so that his buddy wouldn't be hurt. Gotta love little moments like that.
I remember one minion Batman was interrogating who thought it’d be funny to answer Batman’s questions by insulting him in, Mandarin, I think. You could feel the “Oh… shit.” when Bruce responded in the same language.😂
@@coltonwilliams4153No, that was Kasnian.
My favorite villain that treats his minions well is Bowser from Super Mario. Sure, he wants to conquer the Mushroom Kingdom yaddy yadda, but Nintendo really took the time to develop him as more than that. To the rest of his universe he may look like just a bombastic megalomaniacal warmongering conqueror (and he very much is all of this), but as far as we are concerned, as much of a tyrant as he may be, he’s apparently a surprisingly good and competent king, as shown by how his people genuinely and unconditionally adore him. The fact that his villainy is already quite affable in the first place certainly helps. And top it all of, he’s not only a good king, he’s also a good dad: we know after Sunshine that one of the reasons he’s so hellbent on kidnapping Peach is that so Bowser Junior can have a mother figure in his life, and it’s all but said that he would gladly go through hell and back to ensure his son’s safety should anything happen to him.
Bowser is one of my favorite villains because of that! Glad to know I'm not alone!
I love how the Mario and Luigi games show Bowser's relationship with his minions. Especially Bowser's Inside Story and Dream Team.
Honestly the mario and luigi games do a great job at characterizing bowser in general
He also adopted the Kooplings, we know this because they're his children yet not his children
@@Doublemonk0506
Yes, and the reason for this is that bowser was an orfan and didn't want others to suffer that.
Idea for a trope talk I'd love to hear covered. Protagonists and their persistent "No Kill Rule".
I mean, like, seriously I'd LOVE to hear your opinion on this
It started with comic writers not wanting to made new villains each comic. They didn't have time or space to create a new villain in the few pages they had to write a story. Many shows adopted it later because the same applied to weekly cartons. In cases where it isn't being used for budget concerns(think modern batman or MHA), it is just a case of "lawful good" protagonist.
Up
@@amirabudubai2279 It's also frequently a restriction of the production, especially if the intended audience is children.
But that doesn't necessarily keep it from being impactful. Spider-Man, for instance, was produced under the direction of the Comics Code Authority, where the hero killing people was prevented by editorial mandate. But because that restriction has been a part of Spider-Man's characterization from the beginning, it's going to be dissonant to see Peter Parker killing someone.
Batman did kill in original stories, it wasn't until the bosses told Bob Kane and Bill Ginger to stop it that they put in that idea
@@chadfalardeau3259 He did; Batman predates the CCA by a good fifteen years.
The first half didn't feel like a Trope Talk. It felt like a 101 lesson on how to have good and effective minions
The pros and cons of how to gain and keep evil minions (translation: backstories) are often the same as their narrative pros and cons.
Besides an aspiring evil overlord (and therefore the writer) should have multiple ways of of keeping the heroes far away from home base.
@@artofthepossible7329 When will this Channel extensively
cover the so-called BEST Power-System/Magic-System
in ALL of Fiction??
@@loturzelrestaurant No idea, I'm not part of the crew.
@@artofthepossible7329 Ok.
@@loturzelrestaurant What is this alleged system?
Spends whole video gushing about how great Avatar the Last Airbender is. Specificly Zuko, Azula, and the Fire Lord.
*Sponsered by Blaze*
🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
Hello Future Me has entered the chat
I like how some parts of this video sound more like an intro manual for getting your own Evil©️ Minion:
“Minions that are *actually* loyal to the villain are very valuable, because they almost never turn good, which is a major risk for Evil©️ Minions.”
“...the Minion is liable to turn on the evil villain the minute they find out, so that might not be worth the risk.”
“... a risky play, but some Minions are really worth the trouble.”
With every minion ordered the Evil Minion Resources Centre will send a DVD of this video and it's titled "Instruction and Care Manual".
@@tomimakirinne You just have to contact the Black Hat organization. Glory to Lord Black Hat!
@@tempestvenator9809 ah I see your a man of culture as well
I still like Carlos the Jakel's philosophy from bourne identity.
Appeal to a mans greed, and they'll only help you till they find a better offer. rule by fear alone and they will do only enough to avoid pissing you off. Treat your minions fairly, help them in their time of need, and take care of their families, but punish disloyalty in the harshest manner possible, and you OWN them.
Theyre a consultation firm for evil corporations
For minion motivation, I'm reminded of the espionage acronym "MICE" for the reasons people spy: Money, Ideology, Coercion, Ego.
What about Revenge? That’s (nominally) why Sniveling Snake was spying on Voldemort for Albus Dumbledore.
@@christopherfleetwood5252 I guess that counts as ego?
@@jsw973 emotion is better.
" I love Zuko more than I'm afraid of you"
its actually "the jerk who dumped me"
@@lunatrans424 Yeah i also think it's "..more than i fear you" but i had to put Zuko so people get the reference
"You miscalculated."
“You miscalculated. I love Zuko more than I fear you.”
“No you miscalculated! You should’ve feared me more.”
Is how I think that scene went. But does it even matter how exactly it was worded?
@@hanaomer4419 It sorta is because the same words in slightly different ordering might not have the 'punch' they should. Yeah i know i'm hypocritical for saying they matter while i don't care to fix it but still. Also this is how mandela's start with a "luke , i'm your father" so people get the reference to miss-remembering brand names to dead presidents
Holy shit, what if Ozai had fostered Zuko’s non bending skills? That’d be terrifying. He still probably makes Azula his heir while Zuko is his shadow cloaked enforcer. Imagine the fearful stories spread by earth kingdom soldiers about a mysterious fire bender, cloaked in black, wielding a variety of bladed weapons. He doesn’t even need his bending to take down an entire squad of soldiers.
Have you read the assassin!Zuko fics? Most of them on ao3 are basically his grandfather realising this and fostering the skills in him since he was still young. The only reasons he doesn't use those skills against Aang is because his mother killed Azulon, he is supposed to be the _Fire Nation_ prince (hence, a master firebender), and is trying to _capture_ the Avatar, _not_ kill him, not the the civilians around him.
For fucks sake, Aang caused more property damage between them whenever they clash - Zuko has proved time and time again to _not_ use fire willy nilly.
Don’t forget! Zuko can break metal chains and solid wood tables with a single kick too! Another layer to add to the scary
@@tessakilby8388 and he can leap like fifteen feet across! Dude is superhuman!
Red: "Avatar is so good, you guys."
Me: YESSSS!
Starscream in the thumbnail
Starscream: I starscream have been shown on the tropes video for I am the all mighty starscream
Megatron: RAAHHHHHH! Enjoy your last respite as leader; It will not last!
(Transformers: Fall of Cybertron)
Soundwave: ...
He has a trope all to his own.
Coronation, Starscream? This is bad comedy.
Lmao it never works out
See: literally every time Megatron is gone, but then comes back
13:45 when Azula was learning to create Lightning "Almost perfect, just a hair out of place"
Azula very seriously puts her out of place hair back in "almost isn't good enough"
Perfection is her everything
True
That moment in iron man three where the minion puts his hands up and says 'honestly I hate working here, they are so weird'
“You’re only as good as you minions”
- Giovani Potage
I was looking for this
@Sable Askew SAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAME!
Avatar basically provides the perfect examples of every important trope.
What about the romantic tropes?
Sokka is most definitely the one with the best written romantic moments but the other characters, not as great.
Avatar is amazing but it isn't perfect.
Take it from someone who sees that show as a childhood masterpiece.
Actual affection between villains and their minions (both one-sided and two-sided) makes for a lot more depth! You're right... I expect the villain to be terrible to the hero, but seeing how his own people see and are treated by the villain goes a long way to shape my opinion of them.
me in the first two episodes of avatar the last airbender: go Ang, defeat Zuko!
me in the third episode: Go Zuko!
mooood!
I knew Starscream would be in this. He never stays as the boss for more than 20 Seconds.
Except in Transformers: Cybertron, where he was actually successful in swaying the vast majority of Decepticons to his side and was a scary and effective villain.
But still didn't last long.
@@sirdevonaire3249 What do you mean; it didn't last long? In Cybertron, Megatron never fully retook power from Starscream until near the end, and Starscream's fight with Galvatron (upgraded Megatron) near the end was a pretty close call.
20 seconds or 20 million years. It doesn't matter. Star is, and forever will be a "cunt with wings". But remember, he's OUR cunt with wings. 😉
Thank you Tumblr for what is now my new favorite go to nickname for Starscream.
The only time I have ever seen him in charge he got vaporized after like five seconds
I have to say, i would kinda enjoy a series in which Aang never resurfaces, the fire nation continues their conquest unbothered and Zuko is left chasing an antagonist, inaccessably chilling under the ice. I mean, would he eventually get behind that his father send him on an impossible mission to get rid of him? How would he react to this revelation? Would he never give up on his obsession and continue his search until he eventually breaks or would he maybe start questioning the fire nation and openly opposing it, trying to reach out to other nations with the help of Iroh and the white lotus, sharing military secrets and making up plans to stop Ozai. What advise about destiny would Iroh have to offer in that situation?
I think he'd die still searching for Aang.
Anyone have a fanfic recommendation for that?
Only problem I see with this is that Sozins comet puts too strict of a deadline on this kind of growth.
Given another year, maybe two of fruitless searching and Zuko almost certainly would've been fully ousted from Fire Nation backing. General whats-his-face was trying to do exactly that early in the series. Stubborn as he is Zuko wouldn't just give up, so he'd keep the search up, but would be forced to interact with the normal citizenry similar to his travels through the earth kingdom. I've no doubt his uncle would follow him into pseudo-exile. Coupled with Zuko's natural empathy and strange ability to make friends quickly once he drops pretenses, it'd only be a matter of time before he convinces Zuko to give up entirely.
From there I'd give good odds that they settle down to a quiet life for a while. If Azula doesn't show up just to screw with them, then their next big event comes when the White Lotus finds out Ozai is about to burn the world and taps Iroh to fight him. This eventually culminates in a massive battle where Zuko takes down Azula and her 'friends' by combining his Blue Spirit methods with the bending he learned from Iroh, after which Iroh drops Ozai with the same style he picked up from watching Zuko.
that's interesting
I used to think the Clones were my minions until they tried to kill me. Turns out they were really Darth Sidious's minions. That was not a good day for me.
But still I think the Clone Army provides an excellent example of the minions serving a narrative purpose in the story that Red talks about. Not only did the Clone increase the Empire's power and villain by proxy of being an army to do the grunt work but the clones doing Order 66 completely changed the entire perspective of the Clone War. Instead of a standard war with good guys and bad guys the narrative completely shifts when you realize these guys were all just part of plan to orchestrate conflict to let the main bad guy secure power.
The Clones also do wonders for examining the relationships soldiers have with their commanders and the idea of soldiers being more loyal to a Higher Authority rather than their direct Commanding Officer. So who should you be more loyal to? The Commanding Officer who you've probably spent more personal time with and might even be your friend or the higher authority who is ultimately in charge?
And if you yourself are the Commending Officer or the Higher Authority can you count on your soldiers to be loyal to you or the other guy? These are some really interesting questions and I've been pondering them ever since I first saw Episode III as a kid.
Im sorry but that last line sounds like it implies that obi-wan kenobi in is childhood as a youngling saw the future of him cutting anakin in half
Obi-Wan Kenobi You will never truly know how much I love this comment, Master Kenobi
I think these are good points and interesting questions. Considering how absolute the betrayal was in the movie, I interpreted that as a sign of just how absolute the programming/brainwashing of the clones was. Like, if these were normal people with normal socialization than you'd expect there to be at least a few that put personal loyalty first and helped their commanders escape, but instead we see no hesitation from any of the clones.
NaraMouse101 well we did get the Clones in Star Wars Rebels, where we saw a couple who defied their nature in at least some measure
Goth Mom iirc, wasn’t the reason the clone troopers turned on the Jedi the control chips? With the reason those specific clone troopers didn’t do so being that they removed them?
""Avatar is so good you guys..."
You damn right it is😁
Every time i discover new things about it, it's so timeless and rewatchable
Wish I could find a copy of pop up avatar
but then Legend of Korra attacked and ruined everything ;-;
Definitely. There's a reason she uses it as an example all the time.
Calling Entrapta a personally motivated minion over footage of her interacting with Hordak is so funny, because she was one of HIS minion’s personally motivated minion, and then broke into his office to fix his broken robots and became his love interest who he treated as and considered a full equal, WHILE she still worked as his minion’s minion.
Meanwhile building her OWN minion/surrogate robot daughter Emily.
Mad Love saying more about The Joker than The Killing Joke is a hot take that I fully support. I am full on sick of the Joker/Harley fandom that portrays them as some kind of sexy Bonnie and Clyde. It's a horrible abusive relationship.
Harley and Poison Ivy are more Bonnie and Clyde like imo
@Tom Ffrench I wouldn't go that far, but his psychosis is such a wreck that the concepts of love or devotion are fleeting at best. He resets. You don't know which version you're going to get. There was an amazing story where Joker got injured badly and Harley went to break him out of the medical facility at Arkham. He woke up as a complete monster and attempted to kill her and then went on a rampage attempting to murder everyone who ever worked for him.
@Tom Ffrench Interesting! I didn't know that.
youre wrong , joker loves harly and vice versa , its a romantic relationship , its a beautiful relationship..
@@WallNutBreaker524 that's a joke right
Every time I watch your trope talks I want to rewatch Avatar
That three second scene where Mai and Ty Lee team up against Azula gives me chills every time I see it
Yeah, it's fantastic
No lie, my brother once had a gf that behaved almost word for word, exactly like Azula in that scene when something didn't go her way. Entirely funny later down the line as we're both fans of AtLA
It's a beautiful scene really. Azula's look of complete shock that her own minions would turn on her is heartbreaking. As twisted and cruel as she is, you can't help but feel immensely sorry for her.
If you feel like that on this channel, you should watch Hello Future Me, he talks eevn more frequently about atla, if you can imagine. And he had a couple colaborations with red and blue as well
@@daniellins4114 Yeah I also watch his videos haha, thanks for the recommendation though
"Greed's dynamic with his minions shows us very early on that he's not like the other Homunculi in that he actually cares about the people close to him, and this, in turn, hints that maybe he's not as *ironclad* in his villainy as the others..."
D-did you just-?
"Um, Greed covers himself in carbon, not iron-"
LET ME HAVE THIS!
CARBON IS A NON-METAL IN GROUP 14, IRON IS A METAL!!! YOU MIGHT AS WELL MIX UP GOLD WITH ARSENIC, ENJOY YOUR TOXIC JEWELRY! LEARN BASIC CHEMISTRY!
@@flamingpi2245 In astromoy if it is not hrygoion or helluim it is a metal.
@@flamingpi2245chill bro
me: hm i wonder what i should watch on youtube. i'm bored
osp, uploading mere seconds after i think this:
me: :D
True
dungeonnumberzero the same thing happened to me! Holy shit! I was about to eat some stew and the notification came lol
I know, it's like they're reading my mind.
Your welcome for the 1000th like
One of my favorite minion moments in Avatar: Sokka impersonates the captain of the ship. Cut to two guards making small talk like regular coworkers who don't usually get to see one another. Then "I can't believe the captain remembered my Birthday! He really does care!"
Too bad that guy's birthday was ruined.
"It's fun to watch them succeed, and it's cathartic to watch them finally crack" the funny thing is, I'd say that what makes Envy in Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood interesting is that it is not fun or cathartic.
Envy's biggest moment of success (them killing Hughes) is the saddest moment in the whole series.
As for the moment Envy finally cracks after being confronted by Roy Mustang, it should be cathartic to see Envy get what was coming to them. But it isn't; instead, it is horrifying to watch, as the focus is not on Envy falling apart, but on Roy falling apart in his pursuit of vengeance.
FMA is so good, you guys. The manga and FMA:B is excellent, but even the first FMA anime is good in its own way.
I freaking love FMA:B! And you’re absolutely right!
@@kashiichan fma original has the opening "rewrite" and I LOVE that op
"it should be cathartic to see Envy get what was coming to them." I was under the impression envy was a boy? Is he not? They refer to him with male pronouns in the show. Am I missing something here?
@@Turtle_time47 I just used plural pronouns because of the shapeshifting and because of Envy being a homunculus. You're right that other characters refer to Envy with male pronouns.
It sure would be fun if red did a video on mentors.
YES! Please everyone boost this because it should really be a thing!
Not if TRA does it first
Aren't those all old, samuraiish and dead?
@@emilianorios4761 who is this? I dont recognise the name
Or crouching morons and hidden badasses
Who actually have a better survival rate than the traditional mentors
When the Fullmetal: Brotherhood clips of Ling screaming at Greed appeared
I felt chills up my spine
The scenes in that anime are so emotionally deep
It's incredible
“...the next category, fear. Villains live this one cause it’s easy...”
Me: Megatron
*megatron appears*
Me: :o
My Finish Is Shinier Than Yours my reaction
Megatron has all the categories, he is a man of equality
Starscream: "MY LIFE IS A FRAGGING NIGHTMARE!"
My English teacher taught me something. Protagonist doesn’t equal a hero. Antagonist doesn’t equal bad guy. Antagonist is just someone who opposes the Protagonist. The Antagonist could be a good guy.
Death Note is a good example of this in action
If you had half a brain to actually break down the word you would know that
Bakugo and deku from my hero academia.
Ash and Gary from pokemon.
There's tropes for that. Villain Protagonist and Hero Antagonist
Iron Man and Thor are antagonists in infinity war
“Without relying on his fire bending, Zuko is probably the best fighter in the series”
Ty Lee?
Also Suki!
Zuko’s the best fighter because he’s a jack of all trades. He’s not an expert in fire bending like Azula the born-lucky prodigy, but he made up for that by learning a bunch of diverse skills that even if he was no expert in singly, together, knowing them all, makes him a serious flexible, versatile powerhouse. Which actually makes him a lot more skilled and adaptable than Azula and Ozai, who only know how to be experts in how you’re apparently supposed to firebend. Jack of all trades, master of none, better than a master of one.
@@nkbujvytcygvujno6006 Although to be fair, Azula without her firebending on the day of the black sun was still a fucking badass.
Iain McDonald's Still true. But she doesn’t have a host of different fighting skills like using duel swords, and I doubt she knows how to use other bending techniques in firebending, like using waterbending techniques to redirect lightning. Don’t get me wrong, she’s still badass, but she only knows how to be the perfect firebending fighter according to how Fire Nation society deems them. She never had a chance to be more well-rounded. She was always playing the strict, predictable role of the perfect prodigy and nothing else. No one had the same expectations for Zuko once it was clear he didn’t really fit the role, so he kind of got a better chance to be more diversely skilled.
Zuko is probably the only bender in the series where, if Ty Lee got a good shot at his bending, would still be able to fight back. Also smart enough from the get go to know not to get hit by Ty Lee at all.
I like to imagine that Azula actually invited Ty Lee to practice on Zuko when they were children, both retarding his fire bending so Azula looks better and teaching Zuko another part of his absolute stubbornness and unwillingness to give up in the face of impossible odds.
"Avatar is so good, guy!" The only sentence I have said since 2007
When will this Channel extensively
cover the so-called BEST Power-System/Magic-System
in ALL of Fiction??
This vid made me realize how many minions are in Shera(the Netflix reboot)
I haven't seen it and only know anything about it through pop culture osmosis/social media. Are...all the main characters evil minions? Cause that's what I'm getting from this
@@scifikoala Nah. Just for the first episode we meet some of the big bad's teen lackeys.
All the evil characters except horde prime is a minion of someone.
Ive seen memes but these clips make me kinda want to watch it😂😂
considering the whole planets population is like 30 over half are evil
This channel's appreciation of Transformers: Prime warms my heart
Agreed, i have so much nostalgia for it! Favorites were Soundwave and Shockwave (not confusing at all lol)
Yes
I KNOW RIGHT
When Red said 'personally motivated minions' Star Scream immediately sprung into my head. It also helps that she included him on the Thumbnail. Transformers Prime is up there as one of the best, if not the best Transformer TV shows and even adaptions.
Also when Red said 'The only reason they keep them around is beach they do good work.' did anyone else think of Doctor Aphra from the Vader comic series?
Thank god someone's appreciating zukos combat prowess in the other forms of martial arts
The man's a ninja. The times when he's wearing that black outfit are my two favorite episodes. I have to restrain myself every time I praise him because I'm an obsessed fanboy.
@@bluesbest1 Always wondered where he got the training tho. Doesn't seem like it wld be part of the fire prince curriculum to learn stealth and ninjitsu
And while he may not be a prodigy, let's not forget he's a TEENAGER with loads of learning to go- working on fire bending AS WELL as the other combat and learning the expected princely behaviors and honor. So super far reaching in his list of talents- and let's not forget while we're not forgetting, he isn't a BAD fire bender, just not a prodigy...
@@andrewholmes2850 Because I've never read the comics, my accepted headcanon is that his mother, who apparently had enough knowledge of poison and stealth to kill a Fire Lord in his sleep, trained him in becoming an assassin, while Piandao taught him in canon to wield the swords. I mean, think about it. Daddy's girl was all "Look at me, I'm the Princess! Bow to me!" While Momma's boy goes "pay no attention to me, I'm not here, even though I just slit your throat." I also prefer to think Ursa wandered the Earth Kingdom for seven(?) years with a bow and arrow or something, or even became a mercenary or something. Honestly, anything would be better than what canon says she did.
@@bluesbest1 strange but very very interesting. It cld have a semblance of truth tho since zukos blue spirit mask was one of his mother's theatre masks.
Have you ever done the Evil Twin trope? Because Darkwing Duck needs some representation, and Negaduck is one of the most popular villains from that show.
If so, I hope she touches on a _certain character_ from the Ace Attorney series. They managed to pull that trope off really well, and I think part of the reason they did was because we were introduced to the evil twin long before the good twin. Usually it's the other way around.
If i think of an evil twin i think of that crazy fasionista form danganronpa
I think I read that wrong. Negaduck is pronounced NEH-GAH Right?
@@liviousgameplay1755 Yeah, it ryhmes with mega.
AtarahDerek oh I have OC twins with one being evil XD they’re not good OCs at all. Basic as fuck. But I use and develop the evil one more because he’s more interesting to me XD
It makes sense that Greed is the outlier, since it's the most prevalent sin in all humans, but also the sin that isn't always wholly self-destructive, something that Greed himself points out to Edward later on in the series.
"Everybody wants something they don't have."
Even if they hadn't killed all his lackies, Greed definitely would've gone rogue from Father and the other homunculi eventually. He did it once, he was definitely going to do it again. Whether or not they killed his gang or whether or not his memories came back to him was somewhat inconsequential, however the loss of his "belongings" gave him the kick he needed to work alongside the Elrics against Father out of spite and also genuine care for the people in his life, even if he'd deny that last bit.
Another point in the Greed and FMA thing: I’m pretty sure the reason why villains tend to operate on strict hierarchical authoritarianism is because the audience will probably assume that way of running a group is bad in of itself as opposed to the more democratic way heroes typically operate.
Hunter Hunter’s Phantom Troupe (York New City Spoilers) are another great example of how this trope can be subverted. The Troupe is extremely evil; the first thing you ever learn about them is they straight up committed a genocide of the clan one of the protagonists used to belong to. However, the Troupe operates democratically: they have a leader, but he constantly reminds the group that their loyalty is not to him, but to the Troupe itself and he should be considered disposable if trying to save him would compromise the group. This ends up making them much more interesting bad guys, because they actually have their own internal disagreements and drama, one of which just so happens to be whether or not they should risk their lives to help the boss. The cherry on the sundae is that the arc ends, not with the villains defeated, but with them choosing to no longer fight because they’ve lost too many of their own (which is only like two people out of twelve). This ending wouldn’t make any sense if the bad guys weren’t extremely sympathetic.
Heck, in most war movies the heroes are usually part of a chain of command, and in most war movies about wars after Vietnam they’re usually up against rebels or ragtag band of misfits. Completely flipping the narrative
that's why i love hunter x hunter
and chrollo for his chocolate abs and slicked back hair
Red, read the avatar comics, particularly volume 2, the search. Ozai gets much more hatable.
Yeah seriously
The worst obsessive antagonist
Just because zuko's mom said she wished zuko wasn't his son
He says so be it "I will treat him like a peasant's son"
If he grants every wish then let her go in the first place😠😡
Which makes Ursa's confrontation with him in Smoke and Shadow all the more cathartic.
I got chills when I saw some screencaps of his interactions with his wife ;;;
I do like that he’s a realistic abusive father/husband figure. Well, “realistic,” meaning, yes, most of those don’t have unfathomable wealth or a nation at their command, but singling out one child to be the scapegoat for the main abuse, and favoring the other child/children, while practically training them to be loyal and unquestioning with the underlying fear that they will fail somehow and become weak and deserving of the abuse heaped onto the scapegoat (“You can’t treat me like this! You _can’t_ treat me like- like Zuko!” -Azula near the end of the third season), is something abusers in a family do all the time. And twisting up a victim’s words and requests into more abuse, pretending that they’re doing what you want them to do, when they’re really just punishing you for rising up, is also very common. A lot of people can see their abusive parents/partners in Ozai. Which is a sign that you’re writing it right.
nkbujvytcygvujno
Google search does not equal being an expert
"But more of that later!"
*Lindybeige intensifies*
I went to the conments just to find a Lindybeigenreference
When will this Channel extensively
cover the so-called BEST Power-System/Magic-System
in ALL of Fiction??
There's also the minion that doesnt know they're minions because they're being manipulated by the villan
That falls under the category of the Unwitting Pawn.
Coercion.
@@shorewall You aren't being coerced is you think you are helping the side of good. You are just misinformed. And during the hero's reveal the Useful Idiot may vehemently deny the accusations against the villain or be crushed if the villain does the revealing.
Kevin Sullivan like bo lin at the beginning of season 4 legend of korra!!!
Can’t remember her name, but she’s in the anime called The Twelve Kingdoms.
Annoying trope:
Here's the bad guys for this series! Monster, Monster, Conventionally attractive person, and monster.
Guess which one joins the good guys 3 episodes in?
RaHuHe obviously the monster, of course.
The one with a face and a design that isn't just a recoloured version of the generic background minions?
Hmmm, I'm going to go with conventionally attractive person.
That's why most people love Gonzales from Fire Emblem 6. He's a big ugly bandit with a hearth of gold but the mind of a 6 year old. Cliche i know but one of the few ass ugly characters that are licked by lots of people
Monster n#3?
Can I just say, I get overwhelmingly happy when you use Transformers Prime as a example. I love that show!
Fr I’m rewatching it and it’s just as fire as I remember
Never make me regret which one of you I spared.
Same.
It was awesome.
I love the set up of these videos. First explaining the trope then the multiple variations on it show how much research you've done and how people who haven't can still understand the trope. It's also interesting how many times avatar either subverts or successfully uses a trope...
Its a classic 😁
I love how red will introduce tropes ik I'm knowledgeable on, yet still show ways in which I've never thought about them and provide multilayered examples of said trope I hadn't considered.
Could you do lost civilisations?
Lost civs would be neat.
YES please!
Would the whole "this fantasy world is actually our world" count in that trope?
Boshwa
What, you mean Urban Fantasy? That feels like a different episode.
FWIW, she touches on the concept a little in her Atlantis video.
8:55 Hello Future Me has actually done a video on Azula’s psychology, and it does, in fact, go into Ozai’s parenting.
Yo, I just saw your tweet. I'm so sorry that happened to you both. WE SUPPORT YOU
For those without context, Red's cyberstalker tried to doxx her. She made a reddit post about it if you want to know more.
@@LeviathanTamer31 I didn't know, that's really bad
@@LeviathanTamer31 can you provide link?
@@kreeesqeeel Catch.
www.reddit.com/r/osp/comments/cu5k2h/regarding_a_post_from_this_morning/
What happened? I don't have twitter...
First thing minion I thought about was Kronk. Ya better talk about Kronk.
I thought henchman 21
@@urahara64360 I thought about the minions from Overlord (the game series, not the anime.^^)
Pull the lever kronk
I think Harry Potter did this well. The Death Eaters All had super interesting backstories and personalities that explained why they had the views that they did, instead of just being mindless servants.
well the ones that had personalities anyways, the one guy who was like "mm voldemort? hot, he has no nose, i am now a death eater" were basically just to show there were more than like
5
pink kittens I really want to make a joke fanfic from that guys perspective now, that was hilarious
@@synflwr DO IT
pink kittens
Who is that guy?
I want to hear what he has to say
@@alphiesthecat5865 ive got no idea it was kind of a joke example but tbh? highkey wanna make a hp oc thats just that
"It's not i like my friends or anything, idiots!"
-Tsundere Greed
Thank you for perfectly putting into words why I always felt bad for Azula even though she was the bad guy
Honestly, she's such a tragic character. Like she's only 14 and because of her terrible parenting she ends up going crazy
I suggest the video Azula's Psychology by Hello Future Me
@@JoaoPedro-qp9cw I've already seen it haha, but thanks
"Avatar is so good you guys" Love it when ATLA is brought up in a discussion about good character writing
If Anakin ever gets too big for his britches I just tell him he's my minion. And if Darth Vader gets too big for _his_ britches I just tell him nothing changed and he's still a minion of Darth Sidious.
Obi-Wan Kenobi I guess telling Anakin that eventually backfired, huh? He thinks he has to always be loyal to whoever has power over him
In the end, Anakin was a slave until the day he died.
@@Farsinian bruh
@@Farsinian He could literally have left the Jedi Order anytime he wanted to and done whatever he felt like with his life. Nothing was stopping him. He just wanted to have it both ways, to be a jedi but not follow any jedi rules.
@Tom Ffrench NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
You can also give it a spin and make the bad guy extremely super evil, but have them treat their minions super well.
AB V So Redestro from MHA?
Dave Life
He’s not really a villain
Some Background Pikachu I’d say he’s definitely a villain. Sure, he’s the antagonist to the main antagonists, but that doesn’t make him a hero.
Hank Scorpio?
Even if they are super evil, they could simply know that having happy minions minimizes betrayals
WOW. Thank you so much for this whole episode. I've been building a D&D campaign with a major evil guild that is in short a shadow government working to hold or take all they want. Several "houses" all serve 1 big house that is hardly ever know. But I've been stuck on how to structure there characters. This has helped out alot.
The greatest minion will always be Scotty from Austin Powers
"Yo I've got a gun in my room"
Scotty was the damn MVP. Even offered to shoot Austin Powers WITH Doctor Evil.
"Scott... you just don't get it, do ya?"
I've realized that Trope Talks is my favourite series on youtube
Yes but I'm not sure if it's because the way stuff is explained, the drawings or the voice. Might be everything tho.
Highly recommend Terrible Writing Advice
It would be for me too if not for her Journey to the West series.
I just finished watching She-Ra and the part of minions following the villains because of love, where you showed Scorpia and Catra broke me. The saddest thing is that for most part, Scorpia tries her best to not hurt anyone and has helped Adora a handful of times before she officially switched to the good side. She wasn't even scary, she was kind and wholesome and treated pretty much anyone nicely. Even while fighting the good guys, there's no form of manipulation or threats from her part. It's usually just "I'm doing this for Catra" or "Catra told me to do this" and it changed from love to fear so quickly. I'm glad she got to stand up against Catra and leave though.
Also, about the sympathetic villain with moral viewpoints, a good example is the Red Lotus from Legend of Korra. Not only did Zaheer have understandable motivation of granting freedom to everyone (though he went about it very poorly), all of the members seem to care deeply about each other. Zaheer is heartbroken when P'Li is killed -and starts flying- and Ghazan decides to kill himself with Bolin and Mako _after_ he heard Minghua's scream while she was being killed. It's kinda heartbreaking how only Zaheer survived in the end.
Can You Do A Trope Talk on
*The Fourth Wall Breaking Character* Trope?
Doctor infinite ARE YOU SAYING SHE SHOULD TALK ABOUT DEADPOOL CUZ THAT IS AWESOME
Woo boy. That sounds enjoyable
@@aidoll3692 agreed😌
This
This could be a fun and unusual topic! And there's plenty of characters and uses for it. Deadpool, Sans, Monika, that one tiny horse, Emperor's New Groove, etc etc. Heck, just breaking the fourth wall doesn't even need a self-aware character (tho it makes it much easier)
I always forget that Azula is only 14...
@Ionasku Alexander none of the main characters in AvLA is afaik, only AvLoK has those.
Same
She's legal in the Philippines.
神影Kamikage And Brazil
I always remembered that she and Zuko were 16, but I guess I aged them up a little in my memory.
13:59 Seriously! Its definitely my favorite animated show, if not my favorite show overall. So good.
Unfortunately Illumination tarnished that word for generations. Screw them.
Every time I watch a Trope Talk I want to rewatch Avatar.
I knew Avatar is good but wow, didn’t know how good. Loved the examples
I actually found out that Zuko was trained by Piandao to use his swords.
Still doesn't take away he's one of the best swordsmen in the show, surpassing both Sokka and Jet.
"Increase their evil portfolio"
Now I'm just imagining some big evil dude with nasty spikes and glowing green eyes going through a quarter life crisis trying to get his art career off the ground.
That is me, but with my physiology degree
He's trying to get his villain license.
Overly Sarcastic Productions
I'm sure you guys get a lot of these sorts of things but I think that a Trope Talk that could be interesting to hear you talk about is the trope of the Comic Relief.
I think it would be interesting to see what defies it, how it's been excellently or poorly executed in media and it's role in a grand story.
I hope you all have an awesome day and that you have the best of luck in all your future projects and endeavors.
So many videos coming out so quickly! Thank you for this quality content y'all are awesome!
Not gonna lie, I've rewatched Avatar about ten times in a row, during this month alone. It really is amazing. I feel like each time I've watched it, I've discovered something new about the characters and world. Your breakdown of Ozai was _awesome._
Huh. Wow, I didn't even think about the symmetry thing between Zuko, Azula and their father, but you're totally right! That makes so much sense!
Also, as good as this video is, I kinda wish you went more in depth about the benefits of comedic minions in certain stories. The best stories to place them in, the best way to utilize them and their comedic potential as well as how their dynamic with their villain can be affected by comedy.
Apparently, a minion that comes to the minds of many in this comment section is Kronk. And I agree. I feel he could've been a great example for this dynamic of the trope talk.
Heck, you could probably make a whole separate trope talk about specifically comedic minions, and if that's what you're planning, then I most certainly look forward to it. :)
Solid insight and breakdown, thanks so much for addressing that while the "Golden child" Azula was abused as well.
"Avatar's so good you guys."
UGH I know Red, I know.
Your video is also so good, guys ❤
"You have these great minions who plays great parts in the series' story.....
And then there's starscream"
Some of my favorite minion/villain interactions are in the second season of castlevania, where Dracula (the main villain) has 4 primary minions, each of which are involved in a plot behind his back, with 2 of them being his allies and 2 of them being his enemies, it's a very entertaining dynamic to watch.
Hell yeah another trope talk! But you know what this video lacks?
Journey to the West
*I NEED MY FIX!!!*
Coudn't agree more
Just adding another comment so this goes way up
Our neverending story AH-AH-AH...AH-AH-AH
yes pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaase
My favorite minions have to be the D'arby brothers. The first one we see in a poker game with a near 100% chance of winning, but in order to win he has to reveal the secret of DIO's Stand. The pressure of Jotaro even having the slightest advantage gets to him so horribly that he ages prematurely and basically fucking dies.
THE DUDE WAS SO TERRIFIED OF DIO THAT HE DIED OF OLD AGE 30 YEARS EARLY!
The second one just plays some video games to stall half the group but is mostly just out to avenge his bro.
It's worth saying properly, it's not that he has to reveal DIO's stand to win, it's that he has to reveal DIO's stand if he loses. He's so terrified of DIO that, even though he's fully aware that by all rights Jotaro has a terrible hand, the tinitest possibility that Jotaro somehow used his Stand to cheat, and that that might cause him to lose, that tiniest seed of doubt is enough to cause that much stress in him.
@@AGrumpyPanda And then when DIO appears he doesn't disappoint.
Telence T. D'Arby/D'Arby the Younger stated that, when he was 15, he once beat his older brother nearly to death, solely because the latter tried to flirt with the former's girlfriend. I don't think he'd want to avenge his brother, he probably wants to prove that he's better than him.
Also, 'HITMAN (2016)' has a similar moment where an antagonist is defeated purely out of stress. In the game's (chronologically) final mission, 'Situs Inversus', one of the 2 targets is an aged ICA agent that went rogue so he can afford heart surgery. One way 47 can eliminate him is simply to approach him while wearing his red tie suit and rest his hand on the operating table. The target looks up, recognizes 47, mummers "You...", and dies on the spot out of pure shock and horror. Considering all the painful ways 47 can eliminate him in that mission, his reaction was appropriate.
I'd like to add that even if he won, he demonstrates by betting the secret of The World that hes a traitor, becuase at that moment he was willing to put DIO's life on a line. As Avdol stated "DIO does not take kindly to treason"
I was glad to see Adora, Shadow Weaver, Best Girl Entrapta, and Scorpia; I thought of She-Ra as soon as I saw the title!
Zelos Wilder is it just me, or does the character in the chair look a bit like catra. Probably misspelled her name. She ra mean cat lady.
Entrapta is definitely Best Girl.