What do you want to hit the most with your shells, the superstructure of a ship or the citadel. I hear people saying one or the other but I'm not sure what causes more damage or if there is an advantage one way or the other what you decide to aim at.
@@kodiak138 if you can hit the citadel with your AP, you’d always go for that because you do full damage with the shell. Superstructure is what you hit when you have tiny guns like on a DD since they often don’t have the AP pen to get citadels even on broadside targets with any substantial amount of armor.
I got the Black ahead of the Nuestra, but had enough coal to get the Nuestr about a month later. Black almost never gets played now, the cockroach is superb.
Recently got Moskva, first tX cruiser and somehow I instantly started to win a lot more games xD the ship is absurd level good if you're cautious with showing broadside
Nuestrashimy is one of my favs. I've played it 200 times. It's a swiss army knife. I have a 21 pt captain in it. Pros are stealth (5.6), heal, torp reload (96s), torp 18k dmg, smoke (97s), def AA. Cons are gun reload (4 sec), speed, 10km torp range. I have either great or terrible games with it. Don't get caught out against true gunboats. Pick fights carefully, focus on positioning, spotting, torps. I'm not a great player but have a 61% w/r with it. Marco Polo is so bad I sold it and bought a Schlieffen. Pommern is so frustrating (poor guns and is now matched in secondary power) I got rid of it. I have Carnot. If you have either Alaska or Agir don't bother, both are better. Interesting that PQ rates F Sherman over Black. I chose F. Sherman and don't regret it. I have most of the other coal ships, my next one will almost certainly be Salem.
Neustrashimy's one real downside is cost, way too expensive just because it was originally a steel ship. However, you missed the greatest strength of the Cockroach (it's called that for a reason, BTW): stealth. Neustra is at worst at spotting parity with every DD in it's matchmaking bracket not named Asashio.
I got it for steel. It's my favourite tier IX. Kitakaze is much stronger, but the poor concealment is a problem. Black is super strong but Neustrashimy is up there if you are a DD main.
@@ImRandomDude too expensive in relation to other T9 coal DDs. 296k vs 232/236/238/238/240 for Sherman/Marceau/Álvaro de Bazán/Tromp/Khabarovsk. Black has some of the same cost issue, but is a much better cap contesting DD with the radar/smoke/American guns
Actually Marceau and Sherman have same muzzle velocity.BUT for some cursed reason Marceaus shells hit a brick wall mid air and have exactly twice the drag Coefficient so they slow down significantly while in the air.
Neustrashimy is an absolute blast. Her stealth is amazing, torps are powerful-even her guns have great range and muzzle velocity. But the heal is just…*mwah*.
can generally agree with the placement of most ships in this list, though I can add something for a few of them: Moskva and Napoli are pretty much required for competitive modes- Moskva for clan battles and Napoli for both ranked and clans. Moskva is good for cap denial and gunnery support, Napoli is good and just ripping a flank apart, even with the standard main gun build (you just lose some secondary range over it and main gun reload, since you take range mod for competitive main gun builds). That puts them in S tier for me. Yoshino is an A tier for me because I like sitting at range and throwing HE at things in heavier cruisers (hi Goliath), and a lighthouse build is both the most fun and rewarding way to play Yoshi. Run it with prop mod and rudder mod for extra dodging fun. Marco Polo is a much better battleship than people give it credit for. It plays very much like an Iowa, but 406mm SAP absolutely ruins cruisers days (especially light cruisers). The only real downside is needing to take range over reload, but it’s still pretty worthwhile trying out, especially if you like playing Iowa. I actually have my T9 damage record in MP. Neustra is a ‘do everything good but not great DD’. Can contest caps, can farm damage. The real downside to it is being so hideously expensive without anything to really justify it, like Black’s smoke+radar does. Tulsa is quite literally DM at Tier 9. If you get top tier matchmaker you can terrorize the match with it, and it holds it’s own pretty well uptiered. Losing a kilometer off the radar hurts, but getting much better concealment helps massage that a little.
I agree partially about the GK where it's at. Now that being said I run into FAR more of them at T10 than I do Preussen. I'm not sure whether the extra guns make it that much better at long range vs the quicker reload, etc. I actually just picked up the GK myself recently and have had a few great games in it so far. I've had Pommern for a long time and I feel like its concealment really lets it down for the guns that it has. But I have found it incredibly useful for captain training. I just still find myself playing Schlieffen the most out of all the German BB's.
@@kami761 Could be, I have to admit that I skipped over FdG using FreeXP, lol. Which I was planning to do about a year ago but couldn't decide at the time whether I wanted to go Montana, GK, or Republique, since I was at T8-9 in all of those. And then I procrastinated and stopped playing the game for a few months and then boom, new tech tree German BB. So I ended up with Preussen kindof by accident. lol
For me Iwami is A or even S tier. I really like the ship and carried many ranked games with it. Great gun angles and strong torps (since people seem not to expect the 20km).
It's pretty good if you're not expecting to use secondaries very often. The torps and secondary batteries are better as something to help brawl. It's best use to to kite, and punish broadsides at range, but when you get into a brawl you've got some tools to help.
For coal, consider prioritizing unique commanders over ships. Otherwise you spend a lot of time leveling up vanilla commanders that may be suboptimal for the ships you're putting them on, only to start the grind all over again with 10 pts when you get the unique commander later on. Kuznetsov and Cunningham for example are 100% worth the coal.
@@7Stark That's something to think about, but coal ship removal is pretty rare these days and they always warn months in advance. Last one to be removed was Thunderer and that was nearly 3 years ago.
With Marco Polo, i thought i'll get a so-so BB with the gimmick of large calibre SAP. Now i'm close to a hundred games with a surprisingly good win rate. Mostly due to the excellent AP. It has a great pen, just short of Yamato and an impact angle that's just al dente even at 19km. I think it's around 12°. In comparison, Yamato is close to 20° at that range. Wouldn't reccomend it as a first coal ship, but i feel it's all around pretty decent in terms of providing something unique. Oh boy i wish i had played here during dead eye times.
Smolensk best coal ship Z-44 is easily C. Maybe B class. It isn't a bad DD, it's problem is Kagero/Yugumo are tech tree and superior. Z-44's problem is it's too expensive for not being awesome. I really enjoy the torps. Neutra is really fun! It's fast, hard to spot, has a zombie heal, and can do a lot. It's not for beginners though.
Good vid. Moskva is a good ship, from the get-go, but with the legendary mod, it's actually a great ship. Napoli has been good for me, but I find its lack of both radar and hydro, makes it less helpful than Moskva. Sherman is a different play style, but if you set up right, very good.
You've got to take a serious look at Iwami. That thing has insane gun angles and decent guns combined with good stealth (unusual of IJN BBs). Secondaries can work sometimes, but it is wiser to not invest captain skills on them!
11:40 1, Yoshino has 310mm guns, 2, Yoshino has HIGHEST AP PEN (That isn't the Stalingrad or Khronstadt) of ALL the Large Cruisers (254mm+ guns) and has AMAZING ballistics, the ONE thing lacking in her AP is Damage, at only 8650 compared to Alaska 8900, Agir 9100, Stalin is at 9200 etc. So really the only problems with her AP are standard ricochet angles and mediocre AP damage. But hey, you could be Carnot with a 8700 AP damage but a 25 second reload!! That crap is TRAGIC!!! If AP had higher pen on Carnot, or it had reload booster or 9300+ AP alpha - IMO if Carnot had a 23 sec reload base and Reload Booster - I would PROBABLY want it! Cause I LOVE Jean Bart so much, I was hoping carnot would be more like it, but a cruiser.....
Immelmann is S tier for me. Really fast planes, good fire chance on HE bombs, the torps are great aswell (the only downside is that you only have 6 fighter planes). You can go for a hybrid torp-bomb build, or go for a specific torp build with better torp speed and damage + more heals / bomb build with more speed on bombers + higher fire chance (I use this one for random games). Also, its a credit printing machine, before having this ship I was poor, after buying it I never had to worry about credits again.
I don't think it's s tier... I rly don't like the little choice it gives you. Only skip bombers and tops. Plus i have a feeling that the tops are very slow and don't have the payload other cvs have, especially compared to Nachinov... God I hate that cv... The skip bombs don't have high alpha and have low payload as well. You don't have to do much for a 150k game, but there are other cvs, where you have to do even less.
Immelmann in my opinion is a good choice, at release it was the only CV with skip bombers so that’s it’s gimmick but even with Soviet skips, the German skips last longer so more damage to be done
Disagree on Iwami, it's one of my favorite tier 9s. Forget the secondaries, its 410 mm main guns get a ~26 second base reload with main battery mod 3, and they're very accurate. The secondaries are for DDs who get ambitious. I'd put it in tier A, tier B minimum.
Idk if you mentioned that, but Moskva does not have battleship burn time, so... Against fires, she's way tankier than other "super cruisers" (Napoli has this feature too).
as a carrier player, I'll say M.I. is probably as powerful as Malta or even better, cus the skip bombers can hit targets outside their AA guns range, so it can counter those strong AA ships. also, if someone stoped fire then you can wait outside their AA gun's range for 10s and hit them again with out taking AA fire like midway, so it's at least one fire guaranteed per squad. then, she don't have that rocket thing so she can bring way more torp and skip bombers is also a reason makes her powerful cus rockets are not so good now. although, those fire dmg can be 100% healed so it's not that good to play against UK's super heal ships.
Marco Polo is pretty good very tanky, SAP hits like a truck, with the buff she is less of a shotgun. (maybe a shotgun with a choke) I really enjoy her, i would put her at strong B. Definitely much better than Yoshino if game impact is considered. Also GK is easy A i have 60%+ winrate with her. You just don't give broadside when pushing like a dummy and it wrecks things up. The rest i kinda agree with.
wish youd done this video a week prior ! i got the napoli, and whilst it's ok. I wish i went for the marceau. The Napoli is not as good as people make out. Esp when games don't last very long now.
Think you really underestimate Z44. It actually has better torps than Halland. Much faster reload ~60 seconds only, 20% more damage and even more important: due to the good stealth on the torps the reaction time is far less than Halland. You also get little better conceal with 5.9. If you avoid gun fights in early game this DD is a pain for the enemy. Though the 12.5km is little less comfort than the 15km on Halland...
Pommern and the Kurfürst aside, there are no other coal ships you can use to level up german captains.... So I am at a loss of what I should get once i accumulated enough coal (will be a while).
Like you I have none of the ships you have in your D tier for the same reasons. I do like my Alvaro De Bazan though. I love my Kearsarge that thing is so OP it's not even funny. Also don't forget to mention that at one time Moskva, Khabba, and Kurfurst were all tech tree ships so they really aren't worth it to invest the coal needed to get them now.
man this next coal ship is going to be hard to pick for me i already have both the marcue and sherman i was thinking about napoli but i have a petro and secondary cruisers are kinda dead then they released the malta which looks insane so idk i am not a cv main but the damn thing looks super strong to take out from time to time like the thunderer
Alvaro: double MB,FB and rpf no CE with reload mod gets you 5.1(4.6 when open water) sec reload at 15.1 km. Play like a Khaba with leg mod , farm farm farm with the wonderfull HE and fire chance , do that review and edit its position please PQ ;p
My take on Z-44: Mediocre at everything but doesnt excel at anything. The Torps got the reload time and the damage of pan european withouth the speed, the guns are okay-ish but nothing to write home about. With 5.9km conceal at best you outspot what you cant outgun and outgun everything you cant outspot.
Honestly? I have it and I like my Georgia a lot better. Better armor, gun, better secondaries, faster and guns are just as good ( since you have to angle like crazy in both ships the lack of a 4th turret isn't that big of a deal). When played properly Georgia is still one of the most powerful BBs in the game IMO.
Well, I am a new player searching a good way to earn credits, because i have problem with that shit so often, which is best the salem?, or a Tier 9 ship?, thanks.
I've gotten the immelman in a container and it's forgettable. I don't play carriers so this is my only t10 carrier (don't have t6 or t8 as well) the planes aren't anything special, they're no tanks and no jets, additionally you only have two choices for them. Skip bomber and torpedoes. The torps are very slow and the attack squadrons don't have a lot of payload, though kinda high damage. The skip bombers are fine. High fire chance but relatively low damage, low accuracy and pen. It's the only CV i like seeing on the enemy team at t10...
I dont like the Sherman. In Fog farming, jeah okay. Sherman cant spot enemys DDs, against CV is it realy bad, against Cruiser realy bad, it cant torp the flank against pushing Enemys. Only sit in Smoke and farming BBs, no more especiallity.
It seems as an up and coming player, im average now whit a 50% winrate i ranked and in ransom is still a bit behind couse its hard to have impact in ranoms whit some of the techtree ships. But i seems if i want to learn more basics and have more impact in the support role, the moskva seems like it should be my first cole ship, i already have the kuzntsov? Do you agree is it a good ship for this? A fun note whit the Yoshino, i got the B version in one of the free black friday boxes. SO i used that in the brawls, that was 1v1 T10. I citadelled both a conqeror and the T10 frennch bb. So it was guite good. But maybe i got very good in it couse it was the only t10 i had. But i still have quite good games in it, and its torps is no joke either. 20km and the hurt good. B
moskva is really tanky and has excellent guns and good radar but just look out for the fact that it has hellish rudder and turning cirlcle and has bb burn time on her fires so alittle less immune to spam and fires but other then that a great choice for your first coal ship side note don’t show your broadside ever at any range it’s really easy to hit so mostly just sit bow in use your two front guns when in a fight with a bb or cruiser
See, this isn't a tier of a ships abilities, this is a tier list of ships battle impact. Of course DDs are the only S tier. We need a separate list for each class of ship.
If that were true tulsa would be b and immelman would be a and malta would be c. I get that he just put the ones he didnt play in shit tier but you cant rate a tier list on different parameters or it defeats the purpose of a tier list. (Also sherman at s is the complete opposite of rating it on battle impact)
beat coal ship is the smolensk, love that one. also how can you rate the napoli that high, have never had a good game in it and find it super hard to even get moderatly good average damage in a game, it just does not have good dpm at all...
I personally don’t like Khaba, i think it’s a neglected child and it’s the best argument as to why French DDs are superior to Russian DDs. I would rather take a Delny, the supership or a Tashkent, especially the Tashkent “aka trash can”. Getting more armor just means you are more likely to eat full pens X_X
Get it, it's a very annoying boat. You can have 2 charges of bombs. Just get into or close to a cap. You can hide, and if you get radared, it doesn't matter. You just stay behind the island and keep dropping planes on then.
I adore the Neustrashimy. It can take any situation and make it work- it might not fit any one situation perfectly, but I never feel like I'm completely screwed. I always feel like I have a chance. Plus the stealth.
Neustrashimy is incredibly strong in competent hands. It was my go to DD in ranked. You spot your counterpart, trade, smoke if it's going bad, then heal up and repeat. It is incredibly difficult to counter if it's played well.
I have all the ships on that list that I want except the Malta. Thanks again for a wonderful video. As a suggestion, not everyone is in a hurry to obtain 9s &10s. I really enjoy playing most of the tiers. I’m sure there are plenty of other people who do as well. I don’t seek status playing this game, I play it for fun and I’m not alone. So I’m asking you to please consider covering Techline 9s & 8s. There are plenty of us who would truly appreciate it. Again, thank you for your wonderful videos.
I think you should play around with Neustrashimy - it's gimmick is the obscene amount of utility with low stealth and more than serviceable guns (despite the potato dispersion). I would definitely not recommend it as a first coal ship (given that you have options like Sherman) but it is definitely worth the investment (although I think they should fix the price to be in line with the rest of the coal ships, no matter what the history is). It could be especially nice for people who like the IJN DD line.
@@stevenwiederholt7000 I ran it as a torp boat for quite a while and it worked well. Nowadays, I have specced it for guns - the small loss in torpedo reload is worth the gains in the guns. At the later stages of the round you can make it work as an open water gunboat quite successfully (given the extended range). That said, I think it works well with any build (torp/gun/hybrid).
I have Pommern and sherman. First one is situational but very fun, even tho ruprecht might be better but i still enjoy the pommern. But sherman... For some reason ireally strugle with it, just like with gronningen. I find myself quite often to be the one that is spotting the whole enemy team so i cant smoke up and if i try open water farming i lose to much hp. Also even if hydro detects those torps, i eat them quite often so for me, this ship is very situational. If u have spotting from cv or other dd, u can do well, if u are the only dd on your team with no cvs... you are screwed. Im just an average player so dont take my opinion for granted
I feel like more weight needs to be given to viability for Clan Battles. For this reason, I think that Moskva should be rated in S-Tier. It will almost always have a home in CB's. I routinely am a high contributor to my CB team in the Moskva because the ship does everything well and can deter an enemy flank push. BB's are careful because of the fire-starting chances and definitely will not want to give a Moskva any broadside. Cruisers are in a similar situation. DD's are hesitant to push Moskva because of radar and hydro. Randoms is tougher because of more ships, more firespam and CV's. However, Moskva is still a very solid option here and, as I said, CB's give you far more economic boosts and are sort of the 'end-game' for WoWS. Similarly, I'd rate Sherman as more of a B-Tier ship. The guns are amazing and undeniably S-Tier guns. However in CB's, I don't see a lot of Shermans play successfully because it's not a very versatile DD and has little area denial capability. If I see a Sherman smoke up, I'm just calling my Moskva/Puerto Rico/Stalingrad/Petro/DesMemes to come in and radar him, after which he dies quickly due to low HP and sub-par speed. I'm not saying it's a bad ship, but I don't think you can say that a Sherman is S-Tier when it seems to have little viability in CB's for the general player/normal composition. I'd rate the Marceau as an S-Tier DD in part because it's a popular CB pick. I'd actually rate Tromp in an A-Tier because I think that it has a place in CB's due to its ability to drop airstrikes and force opposing Moskva/Stali/Petros/DesMemes out of their island camping spots, plus it has decent guns and at least some passable torpedos. Why do I rate CB viability so highly? It's because CB's are the best way to make money. In a good night, you can make tens of millions of credits and hundreds of thousands of Free XP from CB's. CB's are also probably your best source of Steel. In one night doing CB's, I made just under 25 million credits, 375,000 Free XP and leveled a commander multiple times, plus a bit of Steel to boot. My clan is by no means elite or sweaty and I am by no means an elite, or even a 'good' player. Also, in my eyes Coal is basically a stepping stone to steel ships, so I'd recommend a new player spend their hard-earned coal on ships that will get them into CB's to grind that Free XP and Credits. This is why Marceau and Moskva top out my list of Coal ships in S-Tier because you will almost always be able to take them into any CB comp and be successful. GK isn't a bad option either and Tromp, if played right, can be very good I think.
I have all the coal ships. I haven't really played the Z-44 that much yet but I know for a fact that the Max Immelmann, Carnot, Neustrashimy, Tulsa, Alvaro De Bazan and Tromp are strong ships. Much stronger than you're portraying in your video. I wasn't going to get the Carnot based off of its stats but after getting it from a Santa container I can vouch that it is a really good ship. Carnots AP is insanely good
![[UA] Eternal Fire проти NAVI | EPL Season 20 Malta](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/chvlsDygrZM/mqdefault.jpg)
I like eating coal. Highly nutritious
Yimyum
holy based
Yea it has so much pottasium and stuff
Excellent calorie density. Personally, I prefer uranium.
Nah, too many calories
A coal tierlist at the perfect time when I have just gotten enough coal to buy another tier 10
What do you want to hit the most with your shells, the superstructure of a ship or the citadel. I hear people saying one or the other but I'm not sure what causes more damage or if there is an advantage one way or the other what you decide to aim at.
@@kodiak138 if you can hit the citadel with your AP, you’d always go for that because you do full damage with the shell. Superstructure is what you hit when you have tiny guns like on a DD since they often don’t have the AP pen to get citadels even on broadside targets with any substantial amount of armor.
@@ilovetitanium or german bb
Marceau was my first coal ship and Sherman was my second. never had any regrets (besides playing the game in the first place)
I got the Black ahead of the Nuestra, but had enough coal to get the Nuestr about a month later. Black almost never gets played now, the cockroach is superb.
Recently got Moskva, first tX cruiser and somehow I instantly started to win a lot more games xD the ship is absurd level good if you're cautious with showing broadside
Nuestrashimy is one of my favs. I've played it 200 times. It's a swiss army knife. I have a 21 pt captain in it. Pros are stealth (5.6), heal, torp reload (96s), torp 18k dmg, smoke (97s), def AA. Cons are gun reload (4 sec), speed, 10km torp range. I have either great or terrible games with it. Don't get caught out against true gunboats. Pick fights carefully, focus on positioning, spotting, torps. I'm not a great player but have a 61% w/r with it.
Marco Polo is so bad I sold it and bought a Schlieffen.
Pommern is so frustrating (poor guns and is now matched in secondary power) I got rid of it.
I have Carnot. If you have either Alaska or Agir don't bother, both are better.
Interesting that PQ rates F Sherman over Black. I chose F. Sherman and don't regret it.
I have most of the other coal ships, my next one will almost certainly be Salem.
Go fuck ukra nazi.
Neustrashimy's one real downside is cost, way too expensive just because it was originally a steel ship. However, you missed the greatest strength of the Cockroach (it's called that for a reason, BTW): stealth. Neustra is at worst at spotting parity with every DD in it's matchmaking bracket not named Asashio.
I got it for steel. It's my favourite tier IX. Kitakaze is much stronger, but the poor concealment is a problem. Black is super strong but Neustrashimy is up there if you are a DD main.
"way too expensive" maybe in past, but now coal if far far more accessible.
@@ImRandomDude too expensive in relation to other T9 coal DDs. 296k vs 232/236/238/238/240 for Sherman/Marceau/Álvaro de Bazán/Tromp/Khabarovsk. Black has some of the same cost issue, but is a much better cap contesting DD with the radar/smoke/American guns
Actually Marceau and Sherman have same muzzle velocity.BUT for some cursed reason Marceaus shells hit a brick wall mid air and have exactly twice the drag Coefficient so they slow down significantly while in the air.
Neustrashimy is an absolute blast. Her stealth is amazing, torps are powerful-even her guns have great range and muzzle velocity.
But the heal is just…*mwah*.
Neutra is a good boat for people who know how to play dds - it's huge health pool means it nearly always survives to end game too.
Picked up Moskova about a month ago and its absolutly beautiful
I have this since 2 days. makes fun
can generally agree with the placement of most ships in this list, though I can add something for a few of them:
Moskva and Napoli are pretty much required for competitive modes- Moskva for clan battles and Napoli for both ranked and clans. Moskva is good for cap denial and gunnery support, Napoli is good and just ripping a flank apart, even with the standard main gun build (you just lose some secondary range over it and main gun reload, since you take range mod for competitive main gun builds). That puts them in S tier for me.
Yoshino is an A tier for me because I like sitting at range and throwing HE at things in heavier cruisers (hi Goliath), and a lighthouse build is both the most fun and rewarding way to play Yoshi. Run it with prop mod and rudder mod for extra dodging fun.
Marco Polo is a much better battleship than people give it credit for. It plays very much like an Iowa, but 406mm SAP absolutely ruins cruisers days (especially light cruisers). The only real downside is needing to take range over reload, but it’s still pretty worthwhile trying out, especially if you like playing Iowa. I actually have my T9 damage record in MP.
Neustra is a ‘do everything good but not great DD’. Can contest caps, can farm damage. The real downside to it is being so hideously expensive without anything to really justify it, like Black’s smoke+radar does.
Tulsa is quite literally DM at Tier 9. If you get top tier matchmaker you can terrorize the match with it, and it holds it’s own pretty well uptiered. Losing a kilometer off the radar hurts, but getting much better concealment helps massage that a little.
I agree partially about the GK where it's at. Now that being said I run into FAR more of them at T10 than I do Preussen. I'm not sure whether the extra guns make it that much better at long range vs the quicker reload, etc. I actually just picked up the GK myself recently and have had a few great games in it so far. I've had Pommern for a long time and I feel like its concealment really lets it down for the guns that it has. But I have found it incredibly useful for captain training. I just still find myself playing Schlieffen the most out of all the German BB's.
I think it's because GK used to be tree ship and people don't wanna use FdG again to get Preussen
@@kami761 fdg is a great ship.
@@kami761 Could be, I have to admit that I skipped over FdG using FreeXP, lol. Which I was planning to do about a year ago but couldn't decide at the time whether I wanted to go Montana, GK, or Republique, since I was at T8-9 in all of those. And then I procrastinated and stopped playing the game for a few months and then boom, new tech tree German BB. So I ended up with Preussen kindof by accident. lol
I personally love pommern, allthought i dont expect anything. The meta doesnt favour this ship but once the MM is nice, this ship is superfun.
@@Joze1090 but many people simply don't like her
For me Iwami is A or even S tier. I really like the ship and carried many ranked games with it. Great gun angles and strong torps (since people seem not to expect the 20km).
It's pretty good if you're not expecting to use secondaries very often. The torps and secondary batteries are better as something to help brawl. It's best use to to kite, and punish broadsides at range, but when you get into a brawl you've got some tools to help.
For coal, consider prioritizing unique commanders over ships. Otherwise you spend a lot of time leveling up vanilla commanders that may be suboptimal for the ships you're putting them on, only to start the grind all over again with 10 pts when you get the unique commander later on. Kuznetsov and Cunningham for example are 100% worth the coal.
No. Coal ships can get removed from the list forever, captains aren't going anywhere.
@@7Stark That's something to think about, but coal ship removal is pretty rare these days and they always warn months in advance. Last one to be removed was Thunderer and that was nearly 3 years ago.
With Marco Polo, i thought i'll get a so-so BB with the gimmick of large calibre SAP. Now i'm close to a hundred games with a surprisingly good win rate. Mostly due to the excellent AP. It has a great pen, just short of Yamato and an impact angle that's just al dente even at 19km. I think it's around 12°. In comparison, Yamato is close to 20° at that range. Wouldn't reccomend it as a first coal ship, but i feel it's all around pretty decent in terms of providing something unique. Oh boy i wish i had played here during dead eye times.
11:43 Only Yoshino's AP doesn't special is Improved Angle, but the penetration value is 2nd best after Russian 305mm ap
Neustra is so much fun! Good torps.... good guns. Have some faith... play it.
Smolensk best coal ship
Z-44 is easily C. Maybe B class. It isn't a bad DD, it's problem is Kagero/Yugumo are tech tree and superior. Z-44's problem is it's too expensive for not being awesome.
I really enjoy the torps.
Neutra is really fun! It's fast, hard to spot, has a zombie heal, and can do a lot. It's not for beginners though.
Good vid. Moskva is a good ship, from the get-go, but with the legendary mod, it's actually a great ship. Napoli has been good for me, but I find its lack of both radar and hydro, makes it less helpful than Moskva. Sherman is a different play style, but if you set up right, very good.
Carnot is excellent. Alvaro De Bazon is very strong, particularly against other DDs.
Neustrashimy to B tier but rest makes sense to me. Great ship, very strong in the occasional competitive T9 event.
You've got to take a serious look at Iwami. That thing has insane gun angles and decent guns combined with good stealth (unusual of IJN BBs). Secondaries can work sometimes, but it is wiser to not invest captain skills on them!
How is it fare against Musashi?
11:40 1, Yoshino has 310mm guns, 2, Yoshino has HIGHEST AP PEN (That isn't the Stalingrad or Khronstadt) of ALL the Large Cruisers (254mm+ guns) and has AMAZING ballistics, the ONE thing lacking in her AP is Damage, at only 8650 compared to Alaska 8900, Agir 9100, Stalin is at 9200 etc.
So really the only problems with her AP are standard ricochet angles and mediocre AP damage. But hey, you could be Carnot with a 8700 AP damage but a 25 second reload!! That crap is TRAGIC!!!
If AP had higher pen on Carnot, or it had reload booster or 9300+ AP alpha - IMO if Carnot had a 23 sec reload base and Reload Booster - I would PROBABLY want it! Cause I LOVE Jean Bart so much, I was hoping carnot would be more like it, but a cruiser.....
Immelmann is S tier for me. Really fast planes, good fire chance on HE bombs, the torps are great aswell (the only downside is that you only have 6 fighter planes). You can go for a hybrid torp-bomb build, or go for a specific torp build with better torp speed and damage + more heals / bomb build with more speed on bombers + higher fire chance (I use this one for random games).
Also, its a credit printing machine, before having this ship I was poor, after buying it I never had to worry about credits again.
I don't think it's s tier... I rly don't like the little choice it gives you. Only skip bombers and tops. Plus i have a feeling that the tops are very slow and don't have the payload other cvs have, especially compared to Nachinov... God I hate that cv... The skip bombs don't have high alpha and have low payload as well. You don't have to do much for a 150k game, but there are other cvs, where you have to do even less.
Immelmann in my opinion is a good choice, at release it was the only CV with skip bombers so that’s it’s gimmick but even with Soviet skips, the German skips last longer so more damage to be done
Im surprised at his Iwami assessment. I find it extremely effective.
Same. The main guns are its best feature I think.
Thanks for the great videos, happy holidays to you PQ~~
Disagree on Iwami, it's one of my favorite tier 9s. Forget the secondaries, its 410 mm main guns get a ~26 second base reload with main battery mod 3, and they're very accurate. The secondaries are for DDs who get ambitious. I'd put it in tier A, tier B minimum.
You are forgetting one main point about steal and coal ships: they are premiums for commander use, so they can be used aport of grinding other ships.
Carnot and Neustrashimy if played correctly are strong ships even game changers, give them a crack !
Idk if you mentioned that, but Moskva does not have battleship burn time, so... Against fires, she's way tankier than other "super cruisers" (Napoli has this feature too).
as a carrier player, I'll say M.I. is probably as powerful as Malta or even better, cus the skip bombers can hit targets outside their AA guns range, so it can counter those strong AA ships.
also, if someone stoped fire then you can wait outside their AA gun's range for 10s and hit them again with out taking AA fire like midway, so it's at least one fire guaranteed per squad.
then, she don't have that rocket thing so she can bring way more torp and skip bombers is also a reason makes her powerful cus rockets are not so good now.
although, those fire dmg can be 100% healed so it's not that good to play against UK's super heal ships.
Don't underestimate Carnot, it's a fun ship to play.
Secondary build (what you can) Carnot with speed boost is a riot.
neustrashimy is superb
Right its pretyy dominant in some cases and has a toolbox of gimmicks
Black is S tier and super ships makes Pommern C tier now.
Don't even need superships to make Pommern C tier. The German BC line does that well enough.
Marceau is absolutely broken in the right hands
Marco Polo is pretty good very tanky, SAP hits like a truck, with the buff she is less of a shotgun. (maybe a shotgun with a choke) I really enjoy her, i would put her at strong B. Definitely much better than Yoshino if game impact is considered. Also GK is easy A i have 60%+ winrate with her. You just don't give broadside when pushing like a dummy and it wrecks things up. The rest i kinda agree with.
Neustrashimy is a good and fun ship that good DD players can take advantage of
Great list and very helpful, why was the Hayate not mentioned? I was looking for a Jpn dad trainer. Ty!
DD
wish youd done this video a week prior ! i got the napoli, and whilst it's ok. I wish i went for the marceau. The Napoli is not as good as people make out. Esp when games don't last very long now.
Z44 is actually good the stats don't really provide the full picture and Carnot's fun but she should have torps imo
Just got my Salem before Christmas.
How does this stack with the new adds?
Think you really underestimate Z44. It actually has better torps than Halland. Much faster reload ~60 seconds only, 20% more damage and even more important: due to the good stealth on the torps the reaction time is far less than Halland. You also get little better conceal with 5.9. If you avoid gun fights in early game this DD is a pain for the enemy. Though the 12.5km is little less comfort than the 15km on Halland...
Got Marceau, so Black would be my next coal ship.
Pommern and the Kurfürst aside, there are no other coal ships you can use to level up german captains.... So I am at a loss of what I should get once i accumulated enough coal (will be a while).
I would love to see a video on the free xp ships, (gronigen, agir, etc.)
Like you I have none of the ships you have in your D tier for the same reasons. I do like my Alvaro De Bazan though. I love my Kearsarge that thing is so OP it's not even funny. Also don't forget to mention that at one time Moskva, Khabba, and Kurfurst were all tech tree ships so they really aren't worth it to invest the coal needed to get them now.
man this next coal ship is going to be hard to pick for me i already have both the marcue and sherman i was thinking about napoli but i have a petro and secondary cruisers are kinda dead then they released the malta which looks insane so idk i am not a cv main but the damn thing looks super strong to take out from time to time like the thunderer
I love my Napoli as a CA/DD hunter.
Kearsarge is A or S for me. Fantastic guns, and tiny tim rockets on planes, plus spotting.
Alvaro: double MB,FB and rpf no CE with reload mod gets you 5.1(4.6 when open water) sec reload at 15.1 km. Play like a Khaba with leg mod , farm farm farm with the wonderfull HE and fire chance , do that review and edit its position please PQ ;p
I'm stuck between GK and Napoli, any advice?
The Best Coal Ship ever: Thunderer
Can you please do a t8 Premium ship list? There are so many!
the immelmann is great. i can rutinely pull 100k+ dmg in it
My take on Z-44: Mediocre at everything but doesnt excel at anything. The Torps got the reload time and the damage of pan european withouth the speed, the guns are okay-ish but nothing to write home about. With 5.9km conceal at best you outspot what you cant outgun and outgun everything you cant outspot.
Im interested where you would rank the Thunderer right now. I know it got removed etc. but it kinda still is/was a coal ship :)
Honestly? I have it and I like my Georgia a lot better. Better armor, gun, better secondaries, faster and guns are just as good ( since you have to angle like crazy in both ships the lack of a 4th turret isn't that big of a deal). When played properly Georgia is still one of the most powerful BBs in the game IMO.
Premium ships for the $$$ :Best to get for farming credits, commander exp, etc. Just a thought.
It would be great if you could do map reviews, but include positioning and playstyle recommendations for various ships/classes.
What about Agir ,it’s a great coal ship.
Well, I am a new player searching a good way to earn credits, because i have problem with that shit so often, which is best the salem?, or a Tier 9 ship?, thanks.
I've gotten the immelman in a container and it's forgettable. I don't play carriers so this is my only t10 carrier (don't have t6 or t8 as well) the planes aren't anything special, they're no tanks and no jets, additionally you only have two choices for them. Skip bomber and torpedoes. The torps are very slow and the attack squadrons don't have a lot of payload, though kinda high damage. The skip bombers are fine. High fire chance but relatively low damage, low accuracy and pen. It's the only CV i like seeing on the enemy team at t10...
I dont like the Sherman. In Fog farming, jeah okay. Sherman cant spot enemys DDs, against CV is it realy bad, against Cruiser realy bad, it cant torp the flank against pushing Enemys. Only sit in Smoke and farming BBs, no more especiallity.
Is the Moskva worth the coal when I have the Petro?
I got moskva,sherman,marceau,tromp,khaba,now i want to buy malta,immelmann and alvaro de bazan
You are missing out with Neustrashimy.
It seems as an up and coming player, im average now whit a 50% winrate i ranked and in ransom is still a bit behind couse its hard to have impact in ranoms whit some of the techtree ships.
But i seems if i want to learn more basics and have more impact in the support role, the moskva seems like it should be my first cole ship, i already have the kuzntsov?
Do you agree is it a good ship for this?
A fun note whit the Yoshino, i got the B version in one of the free black friday boxes. SO i used that in the brawls, that was 1v1 T10. I citadelled both a conqeror and the T10 frennch bb. So it was guite good. But maybe i got very good in it couse it was the only t10 i had. But i still have quite good games in it, and its torps is no joke either. 20km and the hurt good.
B
moskva is really tanky and has excellent guns and good radar but just look out for the fact that it has hellish rudder and turning cirlcle and has bb burn time on her fires so alittle less immune to spam and fires but other then that a great choice for your first coal ship
side note don’t show your broadside ever at any range it’s really easy to hit so mostly just sit bow in use your two front guns when in a fight with a bb or cruiser
See, this isn't a tier of a ships abilities, this is a tier list of ships battle impact. Of course DDs are the only S tier. We need a separate list for each class of ship.
If that were true tulsa would be b and immelman would be a and malta would be c. I get that he just put the ones he didnt play in shit tier but you cant rate a tier list on different parameters or it defeats the purpose of a tier list. (Also sherman at s is the complete opposite of rating it on battle impact)
Got the Marceau - not far from getting the Sherman :)
I have both Sherman and Marceau
Research Ships next please :)
me finding ägir : where da hell
me 5 sec later : wait it free xp
Wows players when they get coal for Christmas:
Z-44 is an underrated ship, but there are still plenty of ships that are way better than it
beat coal ship is the smolensk, love that one. also how can you rate the napoli that high, have never had a good game in it and find it super hard to even get moderatly good average damage in a game, it just does not have good dpm at all...
I love having the Smolensk and Thunderer for coal before they took them away...nothing like having 2 HE cancer ships! Lol
Moskva terrible missle defence. True story, check
I personally don’t like Khaba, i think it’s a neglected child and it’s the best argument as to why French DDs are superior to Russian DDs. I would rather take a Delny, the supership or a Tashkent, especially the Tashkent “aka trash can”. Getting more armor just means you are more likely to eat full pens X_X
I’m still pissed off I got Iwami. I blew so much coal on that thing and it sucks so hard.
Well well…I bought it for over 60 bucks…
I recommend you actually play each ship in recent history so your ship tier selection has a bit more logic and facts to it.
Any RB ships tier?
I kinda want Tromp because it's something different.
Get it, it's a very annoying boat. You can have 2 charges of bombs. Just get into or close to a cap. You can hide, and if you get radared, it doesn't matter. You just stay behind the island and keep dropping planes on then.
please take video for the best commander
removed ships tierlist pls
I hate the F sherman with a fiery passion. A terrible boat.
No reason to play Carnot in 2023 (actually ever)
I adore the Neustrashimy.
It can take any situation and make it work- it might not fit any one situation perfectly, but I never feel like I'm completely screwed. I always feel like I have a chance.
Plus the stealth.
Neustrashimy is incredibly strong in competent hands. It was my go to DD in ranked. You spot your counterpart, trade, smoke if it's going bad, then heal up and repeat.
It is incredibly difficult to counter if it's played well.
I have all the ships on that list that I want except the Malta. Thanks again for a wonderful video. As a suggestion, not everyone is in a hurry to obtain 9s &10s. I really enjoy playing most of the tiers. I’m sure there are plenty of other people who do as well. I don’t seek status playing this game, I play it for fun and I’m not alone. So I’m asking you to please consider covering Techline 9s & 8s. There are plenty of us who would truly appreciate it. Again, thank you for your wonderful videos.
Neustrashimy is actually really powerful, easily deals with tier X dds.
I think you should play around with Neustrashimy - it's gimmick is the obscene amount of utility with low stealth and more than serviceable guns (despite the potato dispersion). I would definitely not recommend it as a first coal ship (given that you have options like Sherman) but it is definitely worth the investment (although I think they should fix the price to be in line with the rest of the coal ships, no matter what the history is). It could be especially nice for people who like the IJN DD line.
I run it as a Torp boat. Really good.
@@stevenwiederholt7000 I ran it as a torp boat for quite a while and it worked well. Nowadays, I have specced it for guns - the small loss in torpedo reload is worth the gains in the guns. At the later stages of the round you can make it work as an open water gunboat quite successfully (given the extended range). That said, I think it works well with any build (torp/gun/hybrid).
I have Pommern and sherman. First one is situational but very fun, even tho ruprecht might be better but i still enjoy the pommern.
But sherman... For some reason ireally strugle with it, just like with gronningen. I find myself quite often to be the one that is spotting the whole enemy team so i cant smoke up and if i try open water farming i lose to much hp. Also even if hydro detects those torps, i eat them quite often so for me, this ship is very situational. If u have spotting from cv or other dd, u can do well, if u are the only dd on your team with no cvs... you are screwed. Im just an average player so dont take my opinion for granted
Neustrashimy u can farm credits by just spotting
I feel like more weight needs to be given to viability for Clan Battles. For this reason, I think that Moskva should be rated in S-Tier. It will almost always have a home in CB's. I routinely am a high contributor to my CB team in the Moskva because the ship does everything well and can deter an enemy flank push. BB's are careful because of the fire-starting chances and definitely will not want to give a Moskva any broadside. Cruisers are in a similar situation. DD's are hesitant to push Moskva because of radar and hydro. Randoms is tougher because of more ships, more firespam and CV's. However, Moskva is still a very solid option here and, as I said, CB's give you far more economic boosts and are sort of the 'end-game' for WoWS.
Similarly, I'd rate Sherman as more of a B-Tier ship. The guns are amazing and undeniably S-Tier guns. However in CB's, I don't see a lot of Shermans play successfully because it's not a very versatile DD and has little area denial capability. If I see a Sherman smoke up, I'm just calling my Moskva/Puerto Rico/Stalingrad/Petro/DesMemes to come in and radar him, after which he dies quickly due to low HP and sub-par speed. I'm not saying it's a bad ship, but I don't think you can say that a Sherman is S-Tier when it seems to have little viability in CB's for the general player/normal composition. I'd rate the Marceau as an S-Tier DD in part because it's a popular CB pick. I'd actually rate Tromp in an A-Tier because I think that it has a place in CB's due to its ability to drop airstrikes and force opposing Moskva/Stali/Petros/DesMemes out of their island camping spots, plus it has decent guns and at least some passable torpedos.
Why do I rate CB viability so highly? It's because CB's are the best way to make money. In a good night, you can make tens of millions of credits and hundreds of thousands of Free XP from CB's. CB's are also probably your best source of Steel. In one night doing CB's, I made just under 25 million credits, 375,000 Free XP and leveled a commander multiple times, plus a bit of Steel to boot. My clan is by no means elite or sweaty and I am by no means an elite, or even a 'good' player. Also, in my eyes Coal is basically a stepping stone to steel ships, so I'd recommend a new player spend their hard-earned coal on ships that will get them into CB's to grind that Free XP and Credits. This is why Marceau and Moskva top out my list of Coal ships in S-Tier because you will almost always be able to take them into any CB comp and be successful. GK isn't a bad option either and Tromp, if played right, can be very good I think.
I have all the coal ships. I haven't really played the Z-44 that much yet but I know for a fact that the Max Immelmann, Carnot, Neustrashimy, Tulsa, Alvaro De Bazan and Tromp are strong ships. Much stronger than you're portraying in your video. I wasn't going to get the Carnot based off of its stats but after getting it from a Santa container I can vouch that it is a really good ship. Carnots AP is insanely good
Dude great vids, have been waiting for someone to give a recent review of tech tree and coal ships, and sir you delivered! AWESOME!
You should really give Shimy a try