The Triangle is like the Tampa 2 of basketball. You can find its DNA in nearly every system today, but nobody in their right mind is running the pure system anymore.
Great observation! I think the main problem with todays game is that teams dont use two post players any more. So the weakside action is different compared to what the triangle used to use (weakside post player that would either get a screen from one of the cutting guards or flash to the free throw line to initiate two man game with the top guard). This player is now in the weakside corner.
I just want to correct you The Piston were not Old, the majority of them were either the same age as the Bulls or a few years older than the Bulls. They were not Old
@@Atmtoc Isaiah Thomas and Joe Dumars were NOT 28 and 26. Rodman and Salley were young but everybody else was OLD. Mark Aguire, Bill Lambier, James Edwards, Rick Mahorn, Vinnie Johnson... check all their BIRTHDATES. The Pistons, on average, were 10 years older than the CORE of the Bulls. Rodman was the only 1 still young enough to be in the NBA during the Bulls 2nd 3-Peat.
@@MercerKnowsBallWhy don't you just say their ages when they lost to the Bulls since you want everyone to believe they were old. Also give the ages of the Bulls when they won in '98.
Who needs a sophisticated, complex offense when traveling is legal and defending isn't? They gutted the rules to turn any half-competent high-schooler into a 20 point a game scorer. All NBA offenses look the same now, they'e running the pick and roll with 3 spot-up shooters standing at the arc. You can collapse on the guy driving the lane and give up the open 3, or guard the guy at the line and give up a layup. The modern NBA is a fucking sad joke.
Will try to find it on UA-cam, but Shaq explained it on Inside the NBA why the Knicks was unable to execute the triangle perfectly. There were spots where the players had a delayed reaction after the pass. Once they release the ball to pass it to the high post, the passer and the cutter should start moving, but the Knicks waited for the high post player to catch the ball before cutting.
It's amazing how the little things add up to the effectiveness of a scheme. You need a PG willing to hustle but also willing to take the emergency shot, an SG who can take it in ISO with the best shot-creating you can garner, a big man who can run plays even if he can't finish them and a wing player to cut quickly but also with the length to receive or set up. It's not just about putting 3-4 talented pieces and letting it fly.
Which is built on the concept of coaching and Shaq has said MULTIPLE TIMES THAT COACHES DO NOT MATTER. Shaq doesn’t understand basketball. Not then, not now.
not surprising the success they've had either. he incorporated both elements of two of the greatest head coaches into his own scheme (Phil Jackson and Pop)
I'm really asking out of curiosity here but did the bulls ever have a dominant post up player other than MJ? does the triangle offense require only 1 player to be dominant in the paint area?
The Warriors use elements of the triangle with Draymond while Steph and Klay run off screens for 3s and backcuts. Not surprising given Kerr played for Phil. It's just spread out waaay more and the movement algorithms are heavily modified and more free flowing. We ran the triangle in high school - it fuckn sucks unless you have friggn MJ or Kobe. It's like late-1950s basketball, it doesn't belong in modern basketball in its entirety.
Just look at Clippers. Kawhi and PG posts up every turn, yet it is easily defended by opponents. Post up offenses got surpassed by more intelligent modern defenses
Combine this with Greg Popovich's Beautiful Game (Motion Strong and Motion Weak) = Warriors, thus the offense still relevant as coach Steve Kerr was part of the second Bulls 3-peat.
It's a simple offense in theory, if you don't have the ball, don't just stand there, move to a different spot, and force the defensive player to move. Unfortunately, most players don't know how to play that way, they grow up playing isolation, with 4 players just standing around waiting for the outcome of a 1 on 1 confrontation to finish.
Part of it also is probably the removal of the hand checking, which has really increased offensive production, especially on the perimeter. It has made a slower more methodical offense like the triangle less necessary. Also better perimeter shooters that dont need the structure of the triangle all the time to find openings. But as you say, there are still elements of it in the game. The game is just too fast and too spaced out for a rigid 'triangle' setup to be optimal.
The reason the triangle offense was successful was because of the constant movement of players off the ball. When offensive players move, it also forces the defensive player to move, and possibly make a mistake especially when players cross each other or loop around each other.
Wrong, the triangle has a few different major points according to Phil... #1 - makes every player on offense engaged with purpose whether they have the ball or not #2 - to create the most simple high percentage shot with the least amount of energy spent #3 - to control the tempo of the game & wear out the defense mentally & physically which in turn limits fast breaks against ur team Yes, the triangle is slow & methodical, even boring for the players involved, but the end result is undeniable when the team has a dominant pillar to take advantage of the action... 3peat, 3peat, 3peat, & a 2peat with a finals loss that could've been another 3peat... Yes, more 3 point shooters today & more 3 point shots early in the clock, but it's undisciplined basketball which creates blowouts & shooting yourselves outta games where just running the basic triangle essentially gave u a chance to always win the game... Yes, a lower scoring game, slower tempo, but always a chance to win by the end of the game & that's where the discipline of the triangle with a dominant player really shined & history proved that over & over again... The truth is most players & coaches don't have the discipline to run the offense... Kobe's & Phil's 1st year together, whenever Kobe went off script, Phil would yank Kobe out the game immediately, Kobe caught on by the All-Star break & the rest was history... MJ & Shaq never went off script but they both understood the concept of the offense from the beginning, to get the most simple high percentage shot while controlling tempo, saving energy with everybody involved literally playing the efficiently to give u the best chance of winning by the end... The Phil triangle would still win today, wouldn't be fun to watch or fun to play but winning trumps that... My best example is if u watched Jordan before the triangle compared to Jordan in the triangle, a lot less exciting, less amazing physical acts of athleticism, but his Jordan became a force in the triangle & that happened strictly cuz of the system & a dominant player plus team buying-in 100%... I truly believe if Bron played in the triangle he would've had more rings than MJ...
In 5 years, there will be a new coach and a new team that will insist on using the triangle. This team will have a dominant post player and it will kill today’s defenses. Everyone will work to adjust and the NBA will go through another slowdown period. Styles contrast styles. Only reason why you don’t see this now, is because teams don’t want to. But the Lakers made the Conference Finals with a sorry 3 pt shooting percentage. That’s amazing when you consider everyone thinks you should have amazing three point shooting to get that far. All it takes is someone coming in doing a different style in sticking to it.
Despite what some people think, and I say this as an old head not some young kid, today's offenses are also more complicated. I know the narrative from too many people is today's offense isn't complicated but if you actually watch game tape it is. Yes, a lot of the teams play similarly as it's pace and space, but if you watch HOW they do it, it's not just running down and chucking threes in spite of what people say. The amount of motion, off ball screens, double screens, handoffs is far more significant today compared to the 90s. In the 90s the Bulls were running a complicated offense but today most teams run a ton of complex offensive sets to free up shooters. Of course, one of the reasons the triangle works is having Jordan, Shaq, and Kobe as those three can make just about any offense work. Put Jordan in today's game and with different but similarly complicated sets, Jordan would be able to penetrate more with more space and pass more due to how defenses shift. Triangle still has a lot of good offensive sets to use, it's just now teams have figured out better ways of diversifying their offensive sets.
Thank you fellow old head for appreciating the complexity of today's game. I'm was and still am a big fan of the triangle and it's just great to see a lot of its principles are used by many teams today (post split, blind pig mostly)
Yes today’s offences crazy complex compared to other eras. That also makes defence super taxing. I’m so tired of the romantization of old eras from people that were kids where they watched it.
Tim Cone uses the modernized triangle offense however it will only work effectively if the players have high basketball iq’s that steve kerr admitted he is having a hard time teaching it in gsw that is why he sought tim cones knowledge on how tim and his team does it.
My own take: It's not WHAT they did, it's how they did and who they did it with. Everyone back then knew the triangle was coming but they could still not stop it well enough when the Bulls and Lakers utilized it.
Principles, and Nuances of the triangle offense are still being implemented today in today"s Nba. Sacramento, Golden State and many other teams incorporate some sort of a variation of triangle schemes in their offensive plays.
A team like the nuggetd would be dominant fornyears if theybran the triangle. Jokic will be great for years and they wouldnt have to rely on other guys creating/making hard shots. Imagine jokic in the post withtheir big long finishers constantly moving and cutting to the basket.
the Triangle is what most modern NBA offenses are derived from, but nobody runs the triangle straight up anymore because you need a truly elite centerpiece to make it work to begin with and modern defenses can zone in on it
@@jmgonzales7701 yes Carmelo didn’t wanna read bad react properly but who on that Knicks team could pass and rebound like Rodman or Draymond, because Dennis be Draymond are passing hubs that the triangle needs, yes the Warriors have some of the Triangle in their system.
Lot’s of players today don’t have the basketball IQ to run the triangle and it also takes chemistry with your players and most of today’s coaches don’t have the expertise or patience to teach it! Plus u must have an MJ or Kobe to bail u out when things break down!
It's not because of basketball IQ. It's because there is a lack of continuity, lack of practice time and the death of Tex Winter. There's way too much player movement that teams don't have time to develop chemistry. The triangle is a read and react system, so the more familiar players are with each other the more natural it comes. There's less practice time than ever. Two-a-days are no more because of of the 2011 lockout, for lesser pay (players used to get 55% of revenue, now it's split 50% evenly) players agreed to an increase in benefits. One of those benefits was removal of two a day practices and veterans only need to attend one week of training camp. Only players 4 years or less need to attend the full 2 weeks of training camp. The triangle relies on alot practice time to learn. If you noticed one common trait with all the teams that won a NBA championship with the triangle is that Tex Winter was involved. He perfected the triangle and knew how to make adjustments in the system to adapt to different players and different defensive schemes. Everyone keeps thinking Phil Jackson was a master at it, but he was not. Tex was either an assistant or consultant on all those championship teams. When Tex retired as Laker consultant after the 2010 championship, the Lakers got swept by the Mavericks in 2011. Why? Because Phil didn't know how to make adjustments against the Mavericks defense within the triangle. In the NBA, anywhere Tex wasn't involved with the triangle, it completely failed. Jim Cleamons failed in Dallas, Kurt Rambis failed in Minnesota and Phil Jackson himself failed in New York.
TBF, the play of his teammates had a chunk to do with that. The Lakers have a winning record in games he didn't play; this strongly contrasts to LeBron, where most of his teams sucked when he wasn't on the court.
This proves how much technical the game was back in the 1990s and even early 2000s compare to now . Todays players are just shooters and athletic af but fundamentally they’re not as good too the old NBA players
The league stopped letting teams play actual defense... so coaches stopped designing offensive strategies in general... it isn't just the triangle. It's evident in any and every game that you watch on TV today.
the triangle didnt die. teams just dont know how to run it or lack the players that fit the strategy. with elite post up players almost going instinct, the triangle is less likely to be used
Who was the elite post up player of the Bulls during those 8 years? You really only need players that can read the defence and make the right decision. And they should be able to pass and cut. Although it might seem complicated, it's really not rocket science
Luc Longley literally had more of a post repertoire than what you will see from most anyone today. You don't necessarily need to have Shaq to run triangle
@@TRJ2241987 this is true but you don’t even need a dominant big you just need a capable big and possibly a dominant post player. You could also just have two very good wings, good off ball screeners/cutters/shooters, or just some form of “dominant” chemistry between 3 players who keep a dynamic distance between one another. It’s actually infinitely versatile and it can benefit all teams if they have enough discipline, chemistry, etc. It’s literally just a triangle, and a way to control space and movement. But the triangle doesn’t make much sense without at least a capable big man anchoring it somehow, I’d say that’s the only real requirement.
The pistons were not old isiah was 29 , dumars was 30. The bulls were just a better team in 1991. That pistons got old is a fake narrative that lebron media plants like nick wright made up. Please do your home work. I enjoyed your video.
@MrSlashblade Dumar's was 28 and Isiah was 30 stop with your bull shit. They got beat because the bulls got better as a team. Not because they were past their prime.
I’m sorry but the spurs did not run a motion offense in the early 2000s. They literally just dumped it into Duncan and then everyone played off him lol.
Really hate the false narratives that the Pistons were old. They had tread on the tire, sure, but they werent old. That's just something that Isaiah and a couple other Bad Boys pushed to undercut their loss to the Bulls. Isaiah was injured in that 91 Ecf but i would not say they had "gotten old".
@@bubot17In 1991, Pistons double teamed and triple teamed Jordan who barely took any shot attempts. It never occured to them that Pippen was having an All-Time season. They focused on going after MJ while Pippen scored all the points. Pistons cannot win against a team with multiple high scorers.
What is this nonsense of pistons getting old. Both teams are in their prime Pistons Starting 5 Isiah Thomas - 29 Joe Dumars - 27 Dennis Rodman - 29 Mark Aguirre - 32 Bill Laimbeer - 33 Avg age of the starting 5 : 30 Chicag Starting 5 Michael Jordan - 27 Scottie Pippin - 25 Horace Grant - 25 Bill Cartwright - 33 John Paxson - 30 Avg age of the starting 5 : 28
The Bulls core was almost a half decade younger. To say the Pistons were in their prime is an insane stretch given their health, they had just past their prime
And to also note the Bulls gave the Pistons their TOUGHEST matchup 2 years in the row. In 90’s the pistons on played ONE series more than the bulls. Finally, no one says they bulls were old when Jordan was 30 to 32 and 33 to 35 during the 1st and 2nd 3 peat.
@@commonsense3921 cause mj was the offense before that and when they did implement the triangle in 1990 it wasnt at its best cause the bulls were still relying on mj to carry them when it failed. The triangle really took ground when jordans supporting cast got better in 91.
Those players played in multiple different offenses and didn’t win shit. Without Phil & the Triangle Jordan and Kobe aren’t the Champions they are now..
@VegasJedi that's not the point, the triangle takes good players to work, you need to know how to position yourself based on the defense and your teammates and you need guys to be able to score when they get open. It doesn't work if your teammates suck and can't run the play.
Triangle has many options and the Bulls were able to use it in it's pull potential because of Jordan being a dominant POST player while also being an excellent onball/offball threat. Kerr used it excessively but had to modify it because GSW didn't have a dominant POST player. He used Draymond a lot for the squeeze cut like Phil used Rodman and Longley because they were terrific passers while also great at setting screens
And yet the triangle was used at other levels successfully. I don’t buy that myth at all. If MJ could have made a mediocre offense into a championship caliber one then he wouldn’t have had so many unsuccessful seasons before Jackson
@@bobthabuilda1525 It was definitely used successfully with Jordan, Pippen, Shaq, and Kobe. And I know we have different definitions of unsuccessful. But I'll take 6 chips out of the equivalent of 13 seasons any time. Heck, I'd take the 6 in 15 seasons. Somehow you can't hold down greatness.
The best players win. Jerry Sloan said that you have to have thoroughbreds. A jackass does not win the Kentucky Derby. Triangle offense or not. When a team of so-so players wins it all with the triangle, I'll listen. Until then, it's just a gimmick.
@bobthabuilda1525 so how come it didn't work with the Knicks? U forgot Phil brought in Derek Fisher to run that offense. One of the worst times in Knicks history. The offense is overrated. Phil was lucky enough to have all time greats playing it.
The “triangle” was MJ, Pippen and Grant. Then, it was Shaq, Kobe and Fisher. Finally, it was Kobe, Fisher and Gasol. If the so-called “Zen Master” hadn’t been in the right place at the right time and blessed with multiple HOF studded teams, he’d be nothing more than a footnote in NBA history. See also: Popovich, Gregg (currently working on five straight seasons without a playoff appearance since the exit of Duncan, Parker and Ginobili)
I think the key to the offense wasn't Phil Jackson but Tex Winter. Also teams are using another feature, especially the warriors called skinny post too.
7:53 the power forward position sits near the baseline which is a big no-no in the modern NBA. But the best idea for the position in the baseline is to spread the triangle and modify it to make it more modernized. But a team like Denver Nuggets can actually incorporate this system if they know how to operate. They Gordon as a lob threat and Jokic that could pass in a high level and score if he wanted to.
Derek Fisher said it. Players today aren't smart enough to run it. Today's players grow up in AAU then go pro after one semester of College. Foreign players grow up in a totally different culture. To run the Triangle effectively your players must be high basketball IQ guys with many years of experience. Basketball no longer has that.
The triangle was created specifically for MJ and Scottie to take advantage of their athleticism and length on the ball and their defense to offensive transition
Basically, it's hard to find multifaceted NBA players nowadays. One of Phil Jackson's students is still using triangle offense in one of the national teams in Asia, and he looks like he's reviving the NT's success in the region.
The Philippine team and Coach Tim Cone in the Asian Games this year use the triangle system to win games and the Gold Medal. But its not advance as the NBA, merely use to facilitate sharing the ball. Modern offences I believe are influenced by the triangle system.
The Triangle offense ONLY works with hall of fame players involved: Michael Jordan & Scottie Pippen - Kobe Bryant & Shaquille O'Neal - Kobe Bryant & Pau Gasol. Teams in NCAA did not win many, if any, championships with the Triangle Offense. Tex Winter tried in the NCAA, but to no avail. In the NBA it worked because of Phil and the hall of famers beforementioned.
you need to either cut completely, or lower the volume a lot, of your background music. it distracts and detracts, and brings nothing positive. also, slow down and breathe. very good video essay other than those production issues. content wise you are very interesting.
It would take an owner, GM and coach that are on the same page. Can’t imagine any franchise today willing to make the commitment and have the patience for this. And you’d need well rounded players.
I came here from videos of UVA basketball offensive problems. They run a mover blocker and a middle triangle type offense. These offenses are excellent, yet difficult to learn from what I know. In college at least, having a center that can post up and either score or pass the ball out of the post to a wing player, is very rare. I think that teams in the NBA still play some portion of the triangle, but it's a hard offense to learn.
Quoted ChatGPT right in the middle of the video. It's a shame too because it would be interesting to have a knowledgeable discussion about the Triangle Offense and what happened to it but whoever did this video was not capable of doing the research to make it work.
It's right there. Steve Kerr is still using it. People don't see it sometimes because now it has expanded to include the 3 point line.And the fulcrum has switched from the post mna to whoever has the greatest gravity.
1:55 lets stop calling Piston Aging. They're the same age as the Bulls squad. That Narrative should really die. Because it was never true then and never true now. It was use by IT to diminish MJ's win against the piston, they weren't called aging when IT was calling MJ the goat that's a new narrative in the late 2000's or around 2010's when IT reopened his beef with MJ.
Warriors still run them from time to time. You can see in the playoffs more of this. However, to be the system to be effective, you need good post up and passer players for this.
They were young but still hit their peak as a team. They weren't title contenders after losing in 91 and all of those guys except Dumars had retired or left
@@coreyf3042 sounds like youre giving privilege to some teams that you wouldnt afford to others. I tend to hold everyone to a similar standard. Try again.
@@BTizzle Yes, the bad boys pistons' age and injuries greatly contribute to their end title run even though that MJ and the Bulls were hungrier than the Pistons. You may not remember that they went to three straight NBA finals winning two out of three which wear and tear their bodies as they were getting tired and older. Isiah Thomas misses half of the 1990-91 season because of a wrist injury. As young as the Pistons were, most people failed to understand that the Bad Boys Detroit Pistons had to go through a lot to achieve their goals and for Michael Jordan and Phil Jackson to mock them as champions was a big slap in the face than the Bad Boys Pistons refused to shake hands with the Bulls.
What about Edwards and Mahorn and Johnson. You leave OFF the 3rd Leading Scorer? Those guys played more minutes than Salley did and were CRUCIAL. It took 9 guys to Win playing the Pistons Style.
The fouls in today's NBA make it advantageous to put the ball in one player's hands and let him "create". IFF you can carry, take 3 steps, and any contact you generate is a foul on the defense, then the most efficient basketball is going to have one or 2 players dominating the ball, forcing double teams, with the other players spacing at the 3pt line. You only have to look at international basketball and the USA's ineptitude on that stage to see how different basketball looks when contact doesn't automatically result in James Harden shooting FTs. The teams are forced to generate offense through movement and passing (and the defense gets to "stand their ground", meaning all those switchable players suddenly look lightweight)
The Triangle is like the Left Wing Lock in hockey. As a system, it isn't anything special. But, it can take a talented team and get them on the same page, where the talent can take over. When things get rough, it gives the team a fall back point. The only thing brilliant about the Triangle offense is Phil got Jordan to buy in.
The triangle is completely negated by the removal of the 'illegal defense' rule that forced defenses to either stay on their assigned player or help, without playing zone or staying in between their assignment and the ball handler. The triangle off ball movements only created usable spacing on the weak side thanks to that rule existing. This was the dumbest rule in bball by the way.
Imagine (in theory) Steve Kerr goes into pure triangle along with another bull's/laker player as an assistant coach that understands the systems and makes just a playoff using it
Offenses change. Lot more possessions now with all the 3s going up. Centers shoot 3s now at a reasonable percentage… so set half court offenses are out the window
The triangle is still used by GSW. There is more motion in it but the principals are the same. And no not Phil Jackson. Tex Winter created the Triangle at least the version of it in the NBA. It is still alive and well.
The NBA changed the rules where actual post play is irrelevant now and there’s no benefit to trying to play physical basketball: it’s a professional AAU summer league right now.
No point setting up half court offences, when the rules favour uncalled travels, carries, 3 point shots 5 feet behind the line and new rules that punish you for playing defence.
Aging pistons. I hate this statement. Isiah was 29 n dumars was 27. Lets stop repeating this shit. Rodman was under 30. Oldest was like 35 for role players. Also, bulls mightve beat them the year before if pippen didnt have that migraine
The Triangle didn’t work in NY because of lazy players like Carmelo who wouldn’t buy into a team role unless forced like Olympic or on his last leg. Sitting out a yr until Portland and Dame saved his end of his career. Porzingus liked playing in the triangle but Euro players tend to have great IQ because they go to fundamental academy in their home country
The modern offense of run the ball at the court and shoot a three, or run the ball at the court call for a screen then peel off and shoot a three? That's your modern offense right there....
The game has changed. They don't run too many plays in today game. It's either swing the ball until someone open or isolation ball. It's like playing at the Rec now.
It's such a sorry statement that the system is too complicated for younger players to grasp. If it's run right, you can do away with too much dribbling with the triangle. I think it could still work, you got to have patience and presence of mind. The solution of players today is to develop shooting in such a way that you only need little space and room to sink a bucket. Crazy how most of the buckets today are coming from beyond the arc
Today's players don't have the patience or the discipline to learn the triangle offense. Jordan once said that it takes at least a year to learn it. Steve Kerr and Dennis Rodman picked up the offense pretty fast when they came to the bulls, while other players who came struggled with it like Randy Brown.
We might soon say the same with the Nellie Ball/small ball GSW era from Don Nelson to Kerr. We just saw how Kerr get exposed in Fiba with this style. Not every team has a 50/40/90 player like Curry with the right pieces are him. Size was the difference in FIBA that stopped the US team.
The Triangle Offense is a buzzword. Any 3 players, at any given moment, form a triangle on the court (as long as they don't stand on the same line). So what it really means is: "Hey, we've got Jordan, Pippen and Rodman on our team, just let them attack and good things will happen!!"
nah bruh, the bulls didn't beat sweep the pistons because they got "old", it's because players like scottie and horace grant finally stepped up and played against the pistons instead of folding like previous series, leaving mj to shoulder and take all the punishment. the reason why kerr can implement the triangle so well is because he was part of the bulls dynasty that ran the system to perfection.
Golden State's offense succeeds because of great shooters, a high frequency of shots, the league clampdown on defense and refs looking the other way for traveling calls. There's no reason to run a complex offense in a league that gives preference to high scoring. A well-executed Triangle was a counter to excellent team defense. There are *no* excellent team defenses in the NBA anymore - every game now has defense that looks like the All-Star Game.
What happened was the NBA started to ALLOW Teams to play ZONE DEFENSE. Before that playing a Zone was called ILLEGAL DEFENSE and it was a Technical Foul (on the 2nd Offense, I think - the 1st was a Warning). Triangle is designed to take away the DOUBLE TEAM and NBA Defense was all about finding a way to DOUBLE TEAM back in those days because 1 On 1 you cannot stop Jordan and Kobe and Shaq and the Elite Players of the Game. So you had to find ways to DOUBLE TEAM those guys. Then ZONE comes in and now finding ways to Dounle Team are everywhere vs the Triangle taking away the best Advantage the Triangle gives the Offense. So teams had to scrap it for the offenses of Today.
Illegal defense was as irrelevant as James Harden's traveling on every play. It was put there for a reason to keep game tempo. Not called if game pacing isnt negatively affected
You lack basketball knowledge and only care about slandering Jordan. UA-cam has a thing called history. With popcorn I am watching you contradict yourself over months and years in an attempt to go after Jordan.
I took a look at every comment you made. Will continue to check history for updates on your new comments here on UA-cam. You dont have a problem making contradictory comments, or you dont realize we can check history. It seems like your goal is to go after Jordan. Ill just be here to correct you
@@VanessaWong-yi5pe Really you had to use 4 POSTS for this nonsense. Rarely Called or Not it USeD TO BE A RULE and teams try to FOLLOW the Rules. It would really SUCK to play Defense for 24 seconds only to have Illegal Defense Called against you to give up a Point AND give the Offense the Ball Back to Score on you again.
i think the assistant coach is the one who headed the triangle offense. not phil. even doug is the head coach the triangle offense is being forced to the bulls it is just that doug does not want it
9:25 Why didn't #13 switch off of his man onto Curry if he saw him in motion and coming more to his side? At this point, we all know what Steve is gonna do; cactus plants know that he's not passing.
The Triangle is like the Tampa 2 of basketball. You can find its DNA in nearly every system today, but nobody in their right mind is running the pure system anymore.
Great Comparison!
I was thinking of the wishbone offense but Tampa 2 is a good one.
Great observation! I think the main problem with todays game is that teams dont use two post players any more. So the weakside action is different compared to what the triangle used to use (weakside post player that would either get a screen from one of the cutting guards or flash to the free throw line to initiate two man game with the top guard). This player is now in the weakside corner.
Or the west coast offense.
Tampa 2 is just cover 2 with a LB in the middle. It wasn't anything different from what cover 2 was already. Not a good comparison
I just want to correct you The Piston were not Old, the majority of them were either the same age as the Bulls or a few years older than the Bulls. They were not Old
Thank you people keep saying this false info
Thomas and Rodman was 28 and joe was 26
@@Atmtoc Isaiah Thomas and Joe Dumars were NOT 28 and 26.
Rodman and Salley were young but everybody else was OLD.
Mark Aguire, Bill Lambier, James Edwards, Rick Mahorn, Vinnie Johnson... check all their BIRTHDATES.
The Pistons, on average, were 10 years older than the CORE of the Bulls.
Rodman was the only 1 still young enough to be in the NBA during the Bulls 2nd 3-Peat.
They were past their prime but more importantly they weren’t healthy
@@MercerKnowsBallWhy don't you just say their ages when they lost to the Bulls since you want everyone to believe they were old. Also give the ages of the Bulls when they won in '98.
Who needs a sophisticated, complex offense when traveling is legal and defending isn't? They gutted the rules to turn any half-competent high-schooler into a 20 point a game scorer. All NBA offenses look the same now, they'e running the pick and roll with 3 spot-up shooters standing at the arc. You can collapse on the guy driving the lane and give up the open 3, or guard the guy at the line and give up a layup. The modern NBA is a fucking sad joke.
Will try to find it on UA-cam, but Shaq explained it on Inside the NBA why the Knicks was unable to execute the triangle perfectly. There were spots where the players had a delayed reaction after the pass. Once they release the ball to pass it to the high post, the passer and the cutter should start moving, but the Knicks waited for the high post player to catch the ball before cutting.
It's amazing how the little things add up to the effectiveness of a scheme. You need a PG willing to hustle but also willing to take the emergency shot, an SG who can take it in ISO with the best shot-creating you can garner, a big man who can run plays even if he can't finish them and a wing player to cut quickly but also with the length to receive or set up. It's not just about putting 3-4 talented pieces and letting it fly.
Great observation! Tex would always say: if you cant decide within a second you are holding up the offense
Any success with that search?
@willhooke wasn't the whole segment, but this had some bits and pieces ua-cam.com/users/shortswiCOXF5GzPw?si=2fcLgBZ3JNXonR8v
Which is built on the concept of coaching and Shaq has said MULTIPLE TIMES THAT COACHES DO NOT MATTER.
Shaq doesn’t understand basketball. Not then, not now.
The fact that GSW run a version of the triangle isn't surprising when you look at who their head coach is and where he came from.
not surprising the success they've had either. he incorporated both elements of two of the greatest head coaches into his own scheme (Phil Jackson and Pop)
Everyone runs a version of the triangle. It became the go to method but obviously has updated as the game has progressed.
Triangle offense requires dominant post up player. Todays players barely post up at all
I'm really asking out of curiosity here but did the bulls ever have a dominant post up player other than MJ? does the triangle offense require only 1 player to be dominant in the paint area?
The Warriors use elements of the triangle with Draymond while Steph and Klay run off screens for 3s and backcuts. Not surprising given Kerr played for Phil.
It's just spread out waaay more and the movement algorithms are heavily modified and more free flowing. We ran the triangle in high school - it fuckn sucks unless you have friggn MJ or Kobe. It's like late-1950s basketball, it doesn't belong in modern basketball in its entirety.
Today's NBA uses a form of triangle offense adapted to the modern game
as they should its inefficient and stagnates the offense
Just look at Clippers. Kawhi and PG posts up every turn, yet it is easily defended by opponents. Post up offenses got surpassed by more intelligent modern defenses
Combine this with Greg Popovich's Beautiful Game (Motion Strong and Motion Weak) = Warriors, thus the offense still relevant as coach Steve Kerr was part of the second Bulls 3-peat.
and was also part of 2 Spurs championship
And Robert horry has more rings in Jordan. Everything you said is ridiculous
@@Don_WinchesterHe played on triangle offense teams too.
It's a simple offense in theory, if you don't have the ball, don't just stand there, move to a different spot, and force the defensive player to move. Unfortunately, most players don't know how to play that way, they grow up playing isolation, with 4 players just standing around waiting for the outcome of a 1 on 1 confrontation to finish.
@@samihtameez8584 that has nothing to do with what I said.
Part of it also is probably the removal of the hand checking, which has really increased offensive production, especially on the perimeter. It has made a slower more methodical offense like the triangle less necessary. Also better perimeter shooters that dont need the structure of the triangle all the time to find openings. But as you say, there are still elements of it in the game. The game is just too fast and too spaced out for a rigid 'triangle' setup to be optimal.
The reason the triangle offense was successful was because of the constant movement of players off the ball. When offensive players move, it also forces the defensive player to move, and possibly make a mistake especially when players cross each other or loop around each other.
Wrong, the triangle has a few different major points according to Phil...
#1 - makes every player on offense engaged with purpose whether they have the ball or not
#2 - to create the most simple high percentage shot with the least amount of energy spent
#3 - to control the tempo of the game & wear out the defense mentally & physically which in turn limits fast breaks against ur team
Yes, the triangle is slow & methodical, even boring for the players involved, but the end result is undeniable when the team has a dominant pillar to take advantage of the action... 3peat, 3peat, 3peat, & a 2peat with a finals loss that could've been another 3peat... Yes, more 3 point shooters today & more 3 point shots early in the clock, but it's undisciplined basketball which creates blowouts & shooting yourselves outta games where just running the basic triangle essentially gave u a chance to always win the game... Yes, a lower scoring game, slower tempo, but always a chance to win by the end of the game & that's where the discipline of the triangle with a dominant player really shined & history proved that over & over again... The truth is most players & coaches don't have the discipline to run the offense... Kobe's & Phil's 1st year together, whenever Kobe went off script, Phil would yank Kobe out the game immediately, Kobe caught on by the All-Star break & the rest was history... MJ & Shaq never went off script but they both understood the concept of the offense from the beginning, to get the most simple high percentage shot while controlling tempo, saving energy with everybody involved literally playing the efficiently to give u the best chance of winning by the end... The Phil triangle would still win today, wouldn't be fun to watch or fun to play but winning trumps that... My best example is if u watched Jordan before the triangle compared to Jordan in the triangle, a lot less exciting, less amazing physical acts of athleticism, but his Jordan became a force in the triangle & that happened strictly cuz of the system & a dominant player plus team buying-in 100%... I truly believe if Bron played in the triangle he would've had more rings than MJ...
In 5 years, there will be a new coach and a new team that will insist on using the triangle. This team will have a dominant post player and it will kill today’s defenses. Everyone will work to adjust and the NBA will go through another slowdown period. Styles contrast styles. Only reason why you don’t see this now, is because teams don’t want to. But the Lakers made the Conference Finals with a sorry 3 pt shooting percentage. That’s amazing when you consider everyone thinks you should have amazing three point shooting to get that far. All it takes is someone coming in doing a different style in sticking to it.
Despite what some people think, and I say this as an old head not some young kid, today's offenses are also more complicated. I know the narrative from too many people is today's offense isn't complicated but if you actually watch game tape it is. Yes, a lot of the teams play similarly as it's pace and space, but if you watch HOW they do it, it's not just running down and chucking threes in spite of what people say. The amount of motion, off ball screens, double screens, handoffs is far more significant today compared to the 90s. In the 90s the Bulls were running a complicated offense but today most teams run a ton of complex offensive sets to free up shooters. Of course, one of the reasons the triangle works is having Jordan, Shaq, and Kobe as those three can make just about any offense work. Put Jordan in today's game and with different but similarly complicated sets, Jordan would be able to penetrate more with more space and pass more due to how defenses shift. Triangle still has a lot of good offensive sets to use, it's just now teams have figured out better ways of diversifying their offensive sets.
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@@visualizeme-tz3ngyes let’s just type clown emoji because we wanna dickride the old NBA lmao hope you like skeletons my brotha
Thank you fellow old head for appreciating the complexity of today's game. I'm was and still am a big fan of the triangle and it's just great to see a lot of its principles are used by many teams today (post split, blind pig mostly)
We need a lot more oldheads like you around. Someone who actually knows wtf they’re talking about
Yes today’s offences crazy complex compared to other eras. That also makes defence super taxing. I’m so tired of the romantization of old eras from people that were kids where they watched it.
Like Belichick after Brady, it’s only effective when you have the best player running it. He doesn’t have 11 without Jordan, Kobe and Shaq.
Tim Cone uses the modernized triangle offense however it will only work effectively if the players have high basketball iq’s that steve kerr admitted he is having a hard time teaching it in gsw that is why he sought tim cones knowledge on how tim and his team does it.
My own take: It's not WHAT they did, it's how they did and who they did it with. Everyone back then knew the triangle was coming but they could still not stop it well enough when the Bulls and Lakers utilized it.
Principles, and Nuances of the triangle offense are still being implemented today in today"s Nba. Sacramento, Golden State and many other teams incorporate some sort of a variation of triangle schemes in their offensive plays.
Yes, the video stated that quite clearly, thanks. 🙄
A team like the nuggetd would be dominant fornyears if theybran the triangle. Jokic will be great for years and they wouldnt have to rely on other guys creating/making hard shots. Imagine jokic in the post withtheir big long finishers constantly moving and cutting to the basket.
“Chicago swept the now aging Detroit Piston”. Bro the Pistons were not old. Chicago team was older when they got championship 4,5 and 6…
the Triangle is what most modern NBA offenses are derived from, but nobody runs the triangle straight up anymore because you need a truly elite centerpiece to make it work to begin with and modern defenses can zone in on it
The Knicks didn’t have a engine at the pinch post, Carmelo played Zero D and the Heat ran the East. The Knicks didn’t have a chance
no its mostly because carmelo do not pass
@@jmgonzales7701 yes Carmelo didn’t wanna read bad react properly but who on that Knicks team could pass and rebound like Rodman or Draymond, because Dennis be Draymond are passing hubs that the triangle needs, yes the Warriors have some of the Triangle in their system.
There's a coach in Philippines domestic league that still uses Triangle offense
Kangcone is more of a free flowing offense and he started to run once he became coach of Ginebra.
triangle offense Is anti 3 point shot
Yea thats coach tim cone
Lot’s of players today don’t have the basketball IQ to run the triangle and it also takes chemistry with your players and most of today’s coaches don’t have the expertise or patience to teach it! Plus u must have an MJ or Kobe to bail u out when things break down!
Thank you because I totally agree ball iq is low these days
It's not because of basketball IQ. It's because there is a lack of continuity, lack of practice time and the death of Tex Winter.
There's way too much player movement that teams don't have time to develop chemistry. The triangle is a read and react system, so the more familiar players are with each other the more natural it comes.
There's less practice time than ever. Two-a-days are no more because of of the 2011 lockout, for lesser pay (players used to get 55% of revenue, now it's split 50% evenly) players agreed to an increase in benefits. One of those benefits was removal of two a day practices and veterans only need to attend one week of training camp. Only players 4 years or less need to attend the full 2 weeks of training camp. The triangle relies on alot practice time to learn.
If you noticed one common trait with all the teams that won a NBA championship with the triangle is that Tex Winter was involved. He perfected the triangle and knew how to make adjustments in the system to adapt to different players and different defensive schemes. Everyone keeps thinking Phil Jackson was a master at it, but he was not. Tex was either an assistant or consultant on all those championship teams. When Tex retired as Laker consultant after the 2010 championship, the Lakers got swept by the Mavericks in 2011. Why? Because Phil didn't know how to make adjustments against the Mavericks defense within the triangle. In the NBA, anywhere Tex wasn't involved with the triangle, it completely failed. Jim Cleamons failed in Dallas, Kurt Rambis failed in Minnesota and Phil Jackson himself failed in New York.
Great breakdown!
“don't have the basketball iq" 😂😂😂 The offense and defense today are the most complicated it's ever been in the entire history of basketball.
@@LeGoat-23what complicated? 😂
Triangle offense needs the players to be unselfish
Yet people call Kobe a ball hog when he won 5 rings with it
TBF, the play of his teammates had a chunk to do with that. The Lakers have a winning record in games he didn't play; this strongly contrasts to LeBron, where most of his teams sucked when he wasn't on the court.
Yeah, Shaq had nothing to do with three of them. Finals MVP , pfft!
Lots of help thats why
@@PoochieCollinsfact kobe has lot of good team mate
This proves how much technical the game was back in the 1990s and even early 2000s compare to now . Todays players are just shooters and athletic af but fundamentally they’re not as good too the old NBA players
The league stopped letting teams play actual defense... so coaches stopped designing offensive strategies in general... it isn't just the triangle.
It's evident in any and every game that you watch on TV today.
the triangle didnt die. teams just dont know how to run it or lack the players that fit the strategy. with elite post up players almost going instinct, the triangle is less likely to be used
It’s really just the rule changes. It’s now all about high usage rates, initiate contact in the paint mixed with kicking out to 3pt spam
Who was the elite post up player of the Bulls during those 8 years? You really only need players that can read the defence and make the right decision. And they should be able to pass and cut. Although it might seem complicated, it's really not rocket science
@@liekegerritsen1620 Jordan was an elite post up
Luc Longley literally had more of a post repertoire than what you will see from most anyone today. You don't necessarily need to have Shaq to run triangle
@@TRJ2241987 this is true but you don’t even need a dominant big you just need a capable big and possibly a dominant post player. You could also just have two very good wings, good off ball screeners/cutters/shooters, or just some form of “dominant” chemistry between 3 players who keep a dynamic distance between one another. It’s actually infinitely versatile and it can benefit all teams if they have enough discipline, chemistry, etc. It’s literally just a triangle, and a way to control space and movement.
But the triangle doesn’t make much sense without at least a capable big man anchoring it somehow, I’d say that’s the only real requirement.
The pistons were not old isiah was 29 , dumars was 30. The bulls were just a better team in 1991. That pistons got old is a fake narrative that lebron media plants like nick wright made up. Please do your home work. I enjoyed your video.
2nd oldest team in the league
@MrSlashblade Dumar's was 28 and Isiah was 30 stop with your bull shit. They got beat because the bulls got better as a team. Not because they were past their prime.
Thank you, sir!!!!!
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They only won 50 games in 91 they clearly weren’t as good
I’m sorry but the spurs did not run a motion offense in the early 2000s. They literally just dumped it into Duncan and then everyone played off him lol.
Really hate the false narratives that the Pistons were old. They had tread on the tire, sure, but they werent old. That's just something that Isaiah and a couple other Bad Boys pushed to undercut their loss to the Bulls. Isaiah was injured in that 91 Ecf but i would not say they had "gotten old".
Exactly, It’s crazy to think Zeke was only 29 when they got sweep from the Bulls.
They may not be old, but a lot of them were past their prime
@@bubot17the 1996 Bulls were past their prime to a greater degree
@@bubot17In 1991, Pistons double teamed and triple teamed Jordan who barely took any shot attempts. It never occured to them that Pippen was having an All-Time season.
They focused on going after MJ while Pippen scored all the points. Pistons cannot win against a team with multiple high scorers.
@@bubot17Jordan was 35 in 1998. Rodman 37. Pippen 33.
What is this nonsense of pistons getting old. Both teams are in their prime
Pistons Starting 5
Isiah Thomas - 29
Joe Dumars - 27
Dennis Rodman - 29
Mark Aguirre - 32
Bill Laimbeer - 33
Avg age of the starting 5 : 30
Chicag Starting 5
Michael Jordan - 27
Scottie Pippin - 25
Horace Grant - 25
Bill Cartwright - 33
John Paxson - 30
Avg age of the starting 5 : 28
Thank you, sir!!!!!
The Bulls core was almost a half decade younger. To say the Pistons were in their prime is an insane stretch given their health, they had just past their prime
And to also note the Bulls gave the Pistons their TOUGHEST matchup 2 years in the row. In 90’s the pistons on played ONE series more than the bulls. Finally, no one says they bulls were old when Jordan was 30 to 32 and 33 to 35 during the 1st and 2nd 3 peat.
@@YungShaoKahnCito That's the core of the Bulls. And Detroit just won the year prior, you twerp 🤣
@@youngblood4127Facts
It works great when you have MJ or Kobe, but then again any offense would with those players.....
If any offense would have worked with those players why didn’t they win a Championship BEFORE the triangle offense???
and what did the triangle win WITHOUT those players before or since?@@commonsense3921
@@commonsense3921 cause mj was the offense before that and when they did implement the triangle in 1990 it wasnt at its best cause the bulls were still relying on mj to carry them when it failed. The triangle really took ground when jordans supporting cast got better in 91.
Those players played in multiple different offenses and didn’t win shit. Without Phil & the Triangle Jordan and Kobe aren’t the Champions they are now..
@VegasJedi that's not the point, the triangle takes good players to work, you need to know how to position yourself based on the defense and your teammates and you need guys to be able to score when they get open. It doesn't work if your teammates suck and can't run the play.
Amazing video ,extremely underrated . Im suprised by how little subs you have you deserve millions
I appreciate that it means a ton!
He doesn't deserve it cuz his stupid
This is very well done. Informative and interesting. Thank you
Triangle has many options and the Bulls were able to use it in it's pull potential because of Jordan being a dominant POST player while also being an excellent onball/offball threat.
Kerr used it excessively but had to modify it because GSW didn't have a dominant POST player.
He used Draymond a lot for the squeeze cut like Phil used Rodman and Longley because they were terrific passers while also great at setting screens
My dad played for Marquette in the early 50's under a young Tex Winter using the Triangle offense.
8:00 "couldn't score outside of the paint"
Excuse you. Dennis Rodman scoring is a matter of "choose not to" instead of "can't".
Dennis was an absolute offensive zero, dude.
@@GrahamCStrouse What a trash take lol. If you check his scoring highlights for all his teams, he doesn't lack scoring ability.
The triangle offense was great because Mike, Kobe, Pippen, and Shaq played in it. They made Phil an elite coach.
And yet the triangle was used at other levels successfully. I don’t buy that myth at all.
If MJ could have made a mediocre offense into a championship caliber one then he wouldn’t have had so many unsuccessful seasons before Jackson
@@bobthabuilda1525 It was definitely used successfully with Jordan, Pippen, Shaq, and Kobe. And I know we have different definitions of unsuccessful. But I'll take 6 chips out of the equivalent of 13 seasons any time. Heck, I'd take the 6 in 15 seasons. Somehow you can't hold down greatness.
The best players win. Jerry Sloan said that you have to have thoroughbreds. A jackass does not win the Kentucky Derby. Triangle offense or not.
When a team of so-so players wins it all with the triangle, I'll listen. Until then, it's just a gimmick.
@bobthabuilda1525 so how come it didn't work with the Knicks? U forgot Phil brought in Derek Fisher to run that offense. One of the worst times in Knicks history. The offense is overrated. Phil was lucky enough to have all time greats playing it.
@@alannurse7453yes it only works together with great players but great players only work together with a great system.
The “triangle” was MJ, Pippen and Grant. Then, it was Shaq, Kobe and Fisher. Finally, it was Kobe, Fisher and Gasol. If the so-called “Zen Master” hadn’t been in the right place at the right time and blessed with multiple HOF studded teams, he’d be nothing more than a footnote in NBA history.
See also: Popovich, Gregg (currently working on five straight seasons without a playoff appearance since the exit of Duncan, Parker and Ginobili)
I think the key to the offense wasn't Phil Jackson but Tex Winter. Also teams are using another feature, especially the warriors called skinny post too.
What happened? The NBA wants casual fans money, so they stopped calling fouls and prioritized high scoring.
It was a perfect offense for MJ and kobe
Today its about shooting 3s and stepback offense
The triangle was a joke. Jordan and Pippen constantly made fun of it for years. Read The Jordan Rules book.
7:53 the power forward position sits near the baseline which is a big no-no in the modern NBA. But the best idea for the position in the baseline is to spread the triangle and modify it to make it more modernized.
But a team like Denver Nuggets can actually incorporate this system if they know how to operate. They Gordon as a lob threat and Jokic that could pass in a high level and score if he wanted to.
The Philippine Basketball team lately won the gold in the Asian Games basketball category using the Triangle offense
Derek Fisher said it. Players today aren't smart enough to run it. Today's players grow up in AAU then go pro after one semester of College. Foreign players grow up in a totally different culture. To run the Triangle effectively your players must be high basketball IQ guys with many years of experience. Basketball no longer has that.
I will not do the triangle offense. I won't I won't I won't. I want the ball!
Let’s be clear, the triangle is not obsolete it’s just very difficult.
The triangle was created specifically for MJ and Scottie to take advantage of their athleticism and length on the ball and their defense to offensive transition
The triangle was created before MJ and PIP were in the league. Lots of high school and college teams used it to great success.
Basically, it's hard to find multifaceted NBA players nowadays. One of Phil Jackson's students is still using triangle offense in one of the national teams in Asia, and he looks like he's reviving the NT's success in the region.
Triangle only truly worked because of how MJ and Kobe were uniquely awesome.
Really? Then explain how non-nba teams have used it to such success???
The Philippine team and Coach Tim Cone in the Asian Games this year use the triangle system to win games and the Gold Medal. But its not advance as the NBA, merely use to facilitate sharing the ball. Modern offences I believe are influenced by the triangle system.
NBA offenses are now iso with barely any ball movement. Just a whole lot of dribbling.
The Triangle offense ONLY works with hall of fame players involved: Michael Jordan & Scottie Pippen - Kobe Bryant & Shaquille O'Neal - Kobe Bryant & Pau Gasol. Teams in NCAA did not win many, if any, championships with the Triangle Offense. Tex Winter tried in the NCAA, but to no avail. In the NBA it worked because of Phil and the hall of famers beforementioned.
you need to either cut completely, or lower the volume a lot, of your background music. it distracts and detracts, and brings nothing positive.
also, slow down and breathe.
very good video essay other than those production issues.
content wise you are very interesting.
It would take an owner, GM and coach that are on the same page. Can’t imagine any franchise today willing to make the commitment and have the patience for this. And you’d need well rounded players.
We used the triangle in soccer when I was in high school in the 70’s. Extremely effective.
I came here from videos of UVA basketball offensive problems. They run a mover blocker and a middle triangle type offense. These offenses are excellent, yet difficult to learn from what I know. In college at least, having a center that can post up and either score or pass the ball out of the post to a wing player, is very rare. I think that teams in the NBA still play some portion of the triangle, but it's a hard offense to learn.
In other words Tex is the real hero, Phil just got the credit.
That pistons team was not aging. It was the defending 2 time champs going for a three peat.
Triangle is very much alive in the Philippines. Tim Cone is using it.
This video sounds like it was created by ChatGPT, and there was no editing done at all.
Quoted ChatGPT right in the middle of the video. It's a shame too because it would be interesting to have a knowledgeable discussion about the Triangle Offense and what happened to it but whoever did this video was not capable of doing the research to make it work.
It's right there. Steve Kerr is still using it. People don't see it sometimes because now it has expanded to include the 3 point line.And the fulcrum has switched from the post mna to whoever has the greatest gravity.
1:55 lets stop calling Piston Aging. They're the same age as the Bulls squad. That Narrative should really die. Because it was never true then and never true now. It was use by IT to diminish MJ's win against the piston, they weren't called aging when IT was calling MJ the goat that's a new narrative in the late 2000's or around 2010's when IT reopened his beef with MJ.
Warriors still run them from time to time. You can see in the playoffs more of this. However, to be the system to be effective, you need good post up and passer players for this.
Was just about to write this
The Triple Post Offense Died with Tex Winter RIP
aging pistons roster? rodman 29. joe dumars 27. mark acguire 29. Laimbeer 33. john salley 26. and the leader of the ship? isiah? 29. try again.
They were young but still hit their peak as a team. They weren't title contenders after losing in 91 and all of those guys except Dumars had retired or left
@@coreyf3042 sounds like youre giving privilege to some teams that you wouldnt afford to others. I tend to hold everyone to a similar standard. Try again.
@@BTizzle Yes, the bad boys pistons' age and injuries greatly contribute to their end title run even though that MJ and the Bulls were hungrier than the Pistons. You may not remember that they went to three straight NBA finals winning two out of three which wear and tear their bodies as they were getting tired and older. Isiah Thomas misses half of the 1990-91 season because of a wrist injury.
As young as the Pistons were, most people failed to understand that the Bad Boys Detroit Pistons had to go through a lot to achieve their goals and for Michael Jordan and Phil Jackson to mock them as champions was a big slap in the face than the Bad Boys Pistons refused to shake hands with the Bulls.
Second oldest team in the league
What about Edwards and Mahorn and Johnson. You leave OFF the 3rd Leading Scorer? Those guys played more minutes than Salley did and were CRUCIAL. It took 9 guys to Win playing the Pistons Style.
The fouls in today's NBA make it advantageous to put the ball in one player's hands and let him "create". IFF you can carry, take 3 steps, and any contact you generate is a foul on the defense, then the most efficient basketball is going to have one or 2 players dominating the ball, forcing double teams, with the other players spacing at the 3pt line. You only have to look at international basketball and the USA's ineptitude on that stage to see how different basketball looks when contact doesn't automatically result in James Harden shooting FTs. The teams are forced to generate offense through movement and passing (and the defense gets to "stand their ground", meaning all those switchable players suddenly look lightweight)
not to say the triang was the most efficient, just that it was designed for a different era
The Triangle is like the Left Wing Lock in hockey. As a system, it isn't anything special. But, it can take a talented team and get them on the same page, where the talent can take over. When things get rough, it gives the team a fall back point. The only thing brilliant about the Triangle offense is Phil got Jordan to buy in.
The triangle is completely negated by the removal of the 'illegal defense' rule that forced defenses to either stay on their assigned player or help, without playing zone or staying in between their assignment and the ball handler. The triangle off ball movements only created usable spacing on the weak side thanks to that rule existing.
This was the dumbest rule in bball by the way.
The actual offense died since you can just set moving screens these days. The concepts of the triangle offense still live on
The game changed. That's what happened to the triangle. The Princeton offense was nice too. But the game changed and ît became obsolete
Imagine (in theory) Steve Kerr goes into pure triangle along with another bull's/laker player as an assistant coach that understands the systems and makes just a playoff using it
Philippines played with this offense last Asian Games and won gold.
We don't want all our NBA players to be highly skilled do we?? Lets not use the triangle
For the triangle to work, you need to excellent players. Or Michael Jordan
Offenses change. Lot more possessions now with all the 3s going up. Centers shoot 3s now at a reasonable percentage… so set half court offenses are out the window
The triangle is still used by GSW. There is more motion in it but the principals are the same. And no not Phil Jackson. Tex Winter created the Triangle at least the version of it in the NBA. It is still alive and well.
also GS uses alot of moving screens that would be illegal in previous eras
The NBA changed the rules where actual post play is irrelevant now and there’s no benefit to trying to play physical basketball: it’s a professional AAU summer league right now.
No point setting up half court offences, when the rules favour uncalled travels, carries, 3 point shots 5 feet behind the line and new rules that punish you for playing defence.
Aging pistons. I hate this statement. Isiah was 29 n dumars was 27. Lets stop repeating this shit. Rodman was under 30. Oldest was like 35 for role players. Also, bulls mightve beat them the year before if pippen didnt have that migraine
The Triangle didn’t work in NY because of lazy players like Carmelo who wouldn’t buy into a team role unless forced like Olympic or on his last leg. Sitting out a yr until Portland and Dame saved his end of his career. Porzingus liked playing in the triangle but Euro players tend to have great IQ because they go to fundamental academy in their home country
I’d love to see Ray Allen and Michael Redd play in a modern offense.
The modern offense of run the ball at the court and shoot a three, or run the ball at the court call for a screen then peel off and shoot a three? That's your modern offense right there....
The game has changed. They don't run too many plays in today game. It's either swing the ball until someone open or isolation ball. It's like playing at the Rec now.
The Triangle is a perfect system as long as the players have the basketball IQ to actually run it properly.
It's such a sorry statement that the system is too complicated for younger players to grasp. If it's run right, you can do away with too much dribbling with the triangle. I think it could still work, you got to have patience and presence of mind. The solution of players today is to develop shooting in such a way that you only need little space and room to sink a bucket. Crazy how most of the buckets today are coming from beyond the arc
because 3 is better than 2
Today's players don't have the patience or the discipline to learn the triangle offense. Jordan once said that it takes at least a year to learn it. Steve Kerr and Dennis Rodman picked up the offense pretty fast when they came to the bulls, while other players who came struggled with it like Randy Brown.
@@ronaldcook3840 the trinagle in its original form no longer works. Its already obsolete and teams know how to defend it
We might soon say the same with the Nellie Ball/small ball GSW era from Don Nelson to Kerr. We just saw how Kerr get exposed in Fiba with this style. Not every team has a 50/40/90 player like Curry with the right pieces are him. Size was the difference in FIBA that stopped the US team.
"there may be no more famous offense of any sport than the triangle offense" - said in a true American fashion
More defensive restriction, now the offense can be more free flowing negating the use of the triangle
Short version: Doesn’t work when players see themselves as brands and coaches can’t coach them
The NBA has become an overgrown three point shoot out.
The Triangle Offense is a buzzword. Any 3 players, at any given moment, form a triangle on the court (as long as they don't stand on the same line). So what it really means is: "Hey, we've got Jordan, Pippen and Rodman on our team, just let them attack and good things will happen!!"
nah bruh, the bulls didn't beat sweep the pistons because they got "old", it's because players like scottie and horace grant finally stepped up and played against the pistons instead of folding like previous series, leaving mj to shoulder and take all the punishment. the reason why kerr can implement the triangle so well is because he was part of the bulls dynasty that ran the system to perfection.
Golden State's offense succeeds because of great shooters, a high frequency of shots, the league clampdown on defense and refs looking the other way for traveling calls. There's no reason to run a complex offense in a league that gives preference to high scoring. A well-executed Triangle was a counter to excellent team defense. There are *no* excellent team defenses in the NBA anymore - every game now has defense that looks like the All-Star Game.
What happened was the NBA started to ALLOW Teams to play ZONE DEFENSE.
Before that playing a Zone was called ILLEGAL DEFENSE and it was a Technical Foul (on the 2nd Offense, I think - the 1st was a Warning).
Triangle is designed to take away the DOUBLE TEAM and NBA Defense was all about finding a way to DOUBLE TEAM back in those days because 1 On 1 you cannot stop Jordan and Kobe and Shaq and the Elite Players of the Game. So you had to find ways to DOUBLE TEAM those guys.
Then ZONE comes in and now finding ways to Dounle Team are everywhere vs the Triangle taking away the best Advantage the Triangle gives the Offense. So teams had to scrap it for the offenses of Today.
That was rarely called. Thats not even worth mentioning. Like Lebron and James Harden being allowed to travel
Illegal defense was as irrelevant as James Harden's traveling on every play. It was put there for a reason to keep game tempo. Not called if game pacing isnt negatively affected
You lack basketball knowledge and only care about slandering Jordan. UA-cam has a thing called history. With popcorn I am watching you contradict yourself over months and years in an attempt to go after Jordan.
I took a look at every comment you made. Will continue to check history for updates on your new comments here on UA-cam. You dont have a problem making contradictory comments, or you dont realize we can check history.
It seems like your goal is to go after Jordan. Ill just be here to correct you
@@VanessaWong-yi5pe Really you had to use 4 POSTS for this nonsense.
Rarely Called or Not it USeD TO BE A RULE and teams try to FOLLOW the Rules.
It would really SUCK to play Defense for 24 seconds only to have Illegal Defense Called against you to give up a Point AND give the Offense the Ball Back to Score on you again.
i think the assistant coach is the one who headed the triangle offense. not phil. even doug is the head coach the triangle offense is being forced to the bulls it is just that doug does not want it
9:25 Why didn't #13 switch off of his man onto Curry if he saw him in motion and coming more to his side? At this point, we all know what Steve is gonna do; cactus plants know that he's not passing.
1:54 -- "Now aging" it was only one year later.
3 and NO D is the primary thing that killed the Triangle Offense.
The triangle offense became obsolete when the NBA reinstated zone defense as legal
Detroit was not an aging team when they got swept. Only bill is on his 30's w/c is 33. Every one else was on their prime.
Short answer they phased it out for a more visually pleasing style of playing
Melo is so intelligent that's why he don't need the Triangle Offense...
The triangle offense will still work in the NBA. But you need the right players and the right coach.