I'm a Game Dev. I watch, I listen, and enjoy your perspective. In my mind bro, you've made it, and we are here, surrounding you man. Well done, all around. Keep up the great work. Edit: in the scheme of things, I'm still a nobody, but never give up.
Always a good listen Tim, some additional thoughts: Know your games' strengths, highlight that strength in your marketing. Your marketing shouldn't bottleneck how good your game is it should amplify it. Get to the point, show off your shit out of the gate. Keep it short and sweet. Just have marketing in the back of your mind as you work, when you do something awesome, make a short 10 second clip of it, do this consistently and you'll have a wealth of clips to use in marketing and social media.
As pessimistic as it sounds that luck is a huge part of marketing, I would like to add that appeal is just as important. When I was in college, I was designing a poster for my graphic design class to advertise something for a real business conference and they were going to choose the best poster to use. Everyone was doing the exact same thing in my class. They just used some abstract design with a simple color scheme and it looked all samey. I put a picture of a human in mine and put a catch phrase and it just stood out from everyone else. Basically in order to market something, first you just have to figure out what everyone's doing so you can stand out so you can to turn there head in your direction, and after that, keep them engaged. Yeah sure, marketing has luck involved, but I would say it is more like fishing. Marketing's not to different from hook, line, and sinker.
That's the difference between your average gambler and a pro. The pro plays for the long game. Tim is marketing his next game right now, to us, by making this vid. He's playing long game by giving value via sharing his insights.
Dead Cells was a hit because there wasn't anything like it, and it invigorated the 2D side scrolling action genre that was sorely lacking. It also helped that the game played well, looked good, and that had appeal. It's either a game with addicting game play or a really well put together product that appeals to everyone. I don't look at marketing as much. I look at the past and learn from it. Do what people did before you. Listen to what people want in a game.
You nailed it on the luck part. Some people are so good at what they do that they're almost destine to succeed, the rest of us typically have to get a bit lucky along with hard work.
Finally! I've been looking for marketing information on Game Dev for ages! Thank you very much for creating these videos! It's been very helpful and I'm definitely gonna stick around to get more of that wisdom of yours.
Contacts and a vast network of connected people is number 1, easily. And right behind is is luck. There is brilliant stuff out there that never really takes off because people are indie game devs to the true sense of the word, they're really alone, in all aspects.
Good points here. I've always thought the same of get rich schemes - like legit ones - that yes, it worked for you or one person. That doesn't mean it will work for everyone. Especially if everyone and their mom is trying to do it now. Window of opportunity is over - need to do something new. Same concept of just focusing on tactics. If the tactic is commonly known now then it is probably oversaturated and won't work. ...
I like to think of it like a surfer catching a wave. Waves come and go, you need the right one at the right time and the skill to catch it all to align for success, i don't even surf. 😎
don't you think with no luck and no good contacts, it will work? Pure effort and skill. maybe marketing like flooding the market with free playable art and gameplay concepts. I try my shot on this. edit: some grammar
Sure I also think that with great work you can be successful, although it is still about probability. With a really good game your chances are higher but you still want to understand who your audience is just to increases your probability and luck. We humans really don't understand statistics all that well so luck is always involved.
I think what happens is that, it was new and trendy when one person was doing something but, when a bunch of people started doing the same thing, the concept got over saturated and too many people are doing the same thing. The crazy part is, I started doing devlogs to build a UA-cam channel because I noticed more people clicked on my game development videos than my other videos I had. Slowly but, surely, that began to die and trickle down as well. In regards to Discord, I do notice that Game Developers with Discords are a lot more successful now than Game Developers without.
I'm preparing my indie game company website and I'm wondering which is ideal: Is it better to showcase each of your games on your company website... Or should you have websites for each game and just link to them from your company site? It seems most established game companys have a website for each game or game series but purchasing each domain may get expensive especially if you're not getting a lot of sales yet.
Just have the main company website, then a separate directory for each game. Make sure your links are easy to use and navigate. I get lost going to some big game sites like Squaresoft, sheesh.
Maybe too many videos in a short time, so people can't watch most videos and give up after some time as there are so many. Even though the content is really good, there are currently so many UA-camrs out there that you activate the bell and the videos disappear too fast.
I get the idea of what people mean when they start talking about "success = luck," but where that falls apart is that all the luck in the world won't matter if you aren't positioning yourself in a place to take advantage of that luck. And are armed with the tools to leverage that luck.
Great video, but one big question keeps popping up in my head: How do you know who your target audience is? I'm making a game, but I don't know how to know what the people who would like it are like. You've talked a lot about the importance of knowing who your target is, but as far as I know, you never said how to actually know who those people are.
I don't do game dev, but am intrigued by this channel... As a general business principle, do something you would want as a user, and sell it to users like you. Success!
I am making a game that is very hard to marketing because everthing for the game is a surprise. I am realy nervous about it. the trailers needs to be about the first 10 minutos of game, tops, because the surprise is the content. How could someone advertise that?
There should be something important about your game that is evident and true for the whole experience regardless of the surprises. For Undertale it was "You don't have to kill anyone". Even though that game still threw surprise after surprise into the mix, that statement remains true for the whole game. Try to find that and use it as the pillar of marketing. If you can't figure out something, considering thinking more about the theming of your game and what it's trying to tell its players. It doesn't have to be a super unique idea but the more appealing you can make it sound (without any dishonesty) the better. Just my 2 cents without context, but I hope it helps.
eh.. wanna know why you got still only 60k subs? because watching your vids is a pain... For example I fail in marketing so I watch this... and it is disorganized video without any concerte tips. the whole video is like a drop of juice in a lake. You watch it and you listen talk and talk and talk and talk... there is 70% of talk 20% of repetition 10% of substance I've watched your vids from the beginning and stoped because you were making same videos xDD literally the same videos talking about the same. I am not a moron.. if you tell something once I remember it so watching another video about the same with the same tips was A PAIN.
Tim... not all games have the potential to be equally successful. There is no correlation between how much effort you put into a game and how popular that game is. When one of your games really takes off, it's going to be lightning in a bottle. There's no such thing as "Bioware magic." Do the math on all that, and you'll see that game dev isn't about each game being more popular than the last, any more than youtube is about each video getting more views than the last. It's all hooks and luck and force multipliers. Search your spreadsheets. You know it to be true.
It's like math. Someone can tell you 3x4=12 but if you don't understand it's actually 3+3+3+3, it's going to be very difficult for you to understand 3x5 and so on
people should stop doing marketing and start selling games. I mean why do people spend money for twitter followers? Imagine Twitter goes down one day. People who only sell 3 copies didnt went outside and sold their game. If my game would be done I would speak to every stranger on the street that fits into my target group. Or maybe better: start communicating to people on discord. Ask them to play a demo. Just try to sell your game!! Or am I wrong?????
Yes, you are. By talking to everyone on the street you will lose 10 times more time to earn 1 potential buyer. It’s better than doing no marketing at all, but completely ineffective.
Shouting to people to buy your game will never really work. You need to be much smarter than that. People hate if you want to force them to do what you want. You need to make something they want, and then only show it to them so they start wanting to buy it themselves.
I'm a Game Dev. I watch, I listen, and enjoy your perspective. In my mind bro, you've made it, and we are here, surrounding you man.
Well done, all around. Keep up the great work.
Edit: in the scheme of things, I'm still a nobody, but never give up.
In the scheme of things you're somebody aspiring to do what you love, and you're gonna make it. Good luck my man!
Always a good listen Tim, some additional thoughts:
Know your games' strengths, highlight that strength in your marketing.
Your marketing shouldn't bottleneck how good your game is it should amplify it. Get to the point, show off your shit out of the gate. Keep it short and sweet. Just have marketing in the back of your mind as you work, when you do something awesome, make a short 10 second clip of it, do this consistently and you'll have a wealth of clips to use in marketing and social media.
As pessimistic as it sounds that luck is a huge part of marketing, I would like to add that appeal is just as important.
When I was in college, I was designing a poster for my graphic design class to advertise something for a real business conference and they were going to choose the best poster to use. Everyone was doing the exact same thing in my class. They just used some abstract design with a simple color scheme and it looked all samey. I put a picture of a human in mine and put a catch phrase and it just stood out from everyone else.
Basically in order to market something, first you just have to figure out what everyone's doing so you can stand out so you can to turn there head in your direction, and after that, keep them engaged. Yeah sure, marketing has luck involved, but I would say it is more like fishing. Marketing's not to different from hook, line, and sinker.
Tim is here to keep it real with the dellusional career of game development, it is a gamble, but you can still choose where to place your bets.
That's the difference between your average gambler and a pro. The pro plays for the long game. Tim is marketing his next game right now, to us, by making this vid. He's playing long game by giving value via sharing his insights.
Dead Cells was a hit because there wasn't anything like it, and it invigorated the 2D side scrolling action genre that was sorely lacking. It also helped that the game played well, looked good, and that had appeal. It's either a game with addicting game play or a really well put together product that appeals to everyone.
I don't look at marketing as much. I look at the past and learn from it. Do what people did before you. Listen to what people want in a game.
You nailed it on the luck part. Some people are so good at what they do that they're almost destine to succeed, the rest of us typically have to get a bit lucky along with hard work.
Finally! I've been looking for marketing information on Game Dev for ages!
Thank you very much for creating these videos! It's been very helpful and I'm definitely gonna stick around to get more of that wisdom of yours.
Contacts and a vast network of connected people is number 1, easily. And right behind is is luck. There is brilliant stuff out there that never really takes off because people are indie game devs to the true sense of the word, they're really alone, in all aspects.
Another great video. Your hard work is inspiring. Thank you again!
Great video. Just starting down this path. Love your prospective.
Great video, Tim! I love your marketing videos. You always provide some great perspective.
excellent vid mate keep going buddy!
Good ad placement. Lol I appreciate you Tim.
Good points here. I've always thought the same of get rich schemes - like legit ones - that yes, it worked for you or one person. That doesn't mean it will work for everyone. Especially if everyone and their mom is trying to do it now. Window of opportunity is over - need to do something new. Same concept of just focusing on tactics. If the tactic is commonly known now then it is probably oversaturated and won't work. ...
I like to think of it like a surfer catching a wave. Waves come and go, you need the right one at the right time and the skill to catch it all to align for success, i don't even surf. 😎
I needed this
A long term of relationship of customer is better than a temporary friend.
don't you think with no luck and no good contacts, it will work? Pure effort and skill. maybe marketing like flooding the market with free playable art and gameplay concepts. I try my shot on this. edit: some grammar
Sure I also think that with great work you can be successful, although it is still about probability. With a really good game your chances are higher but you still want to understand who your audience is just to increases your probability and luck. We humans really don't understand statistics all that well so luck is always involved.
I think what happens is that, it was new and trendy when one person was doing something but, when a bunch of people started doing the same thing, the concept got over saturated and too many people are doing the same thing. The crazy part is, I started doing devlogs to build a UA-cam channel because I noticed more people clicked on my game development videos than my other videos I had. Slowly but, surely, that began to die and trickle down as well. In regards to Discord, I do notice that Game Developers with Discords are a lot more successful now than Game Developers without.
thanks for the video.
I'm preparing my indie game company website and I'm wondering which is ideal:
Is it better to showcase each of your games on your company website...
Or should you have websites for each game and just link to them from your company site?
It seems most established game companys have a website for each game or game series but purchasing each domain may get expensive especially if you're not getting a lot of sales yet.
Just have the main company website, then a separate directory for each game. Make sure your links are easy to use and navigate. I get lost going to some big game sites like Squaresoft, sheesh.
@@XENOS_Indie_Game_Dev Thanks! That will also make it easier to do blog posts for them all.
Tim, make a video on why your channel suddenly started to receive such low views. I find it interesting and troublesome
Maybe too many videos in a short time, so people can't watch most videos and give up after some time as there are so many. Even though the content is really good, there are currently so many UA-camrs out there that you activate the bell and the videos disappear too fast.
I get the idea of what people mean when they start talking about "success = luck," but where that falls apart is that all the luck in the world won't matter if you aren't positioning yourself in a place to take advantage of that luck. And are armed with the tools to leverage that luck.
I have very little luck. I've been at this for 15 years and... what? Nothing. Granted, only been trading properly under my studio for 2 years...
A lot of it comes down to some luck and right contacts
Manaki-Senpai: GameDev definitely contacts
Great video, but one big question keeps popping up in my head: How do you know who your target audience is?
I'm making a game, but I don't know how to know what the people who would like it are like.
You've talked a lot about the importance of knowing who your target is, but as far as I know, you never said how to actually know who those people are.
I don't do game dev, but am intrigued by this channel...
As a general business principle, do something you would want as a user, and sell it to users like you. Success!
@@jchenweb That didn't really answer my question, who are "users like me", and how do I find them?
I am making a game that is very hard to marketing because everthing for the game is a surprise.
I am realy nervous about it. the trailers needs to be about the first 10 minutos of game, tops, because the surprise is the content. How could someone advertise that?
There should be something important about your game that is evident and true for the whole experience regardless of the surprises. For Undertale it was "You don't have to kill anyone". Even though that game still threw surprise after surprise into the mix, that statement remains true for the whole game. Try to find that and use it as the pillar of marketing. If you can't figure out something, considering thinking more about the theming of your game and what it's trying to tell its players. It doesn't have to be a super unique idea but the more appealing you can make it sound (without any dishonesty) the better. Just my 2 cents without context, but I hope it helps.
@@meganinja456 It does. thanks
says you :D wish you good
eh.. wanna know why you got still only 60k subs?
because watching your vids is a pain... For example
I fail in marketing so I watch this... and it is disorganized video without any concerte tips.
the whole video is like a drop of juice in a lake. You watch it and you listen talk and talk and talk and talk... there is 70% of talk 20% of repetition 10% of substance
I've watched your vids from the beginning and stoped because you were making same videos xDD literally the same videos talking about the same. I am not a moron.. if you tell something once I remember it so watching another video about the same with the same tips was A PAIN.
Hey man! I’m loving this but you gotta trim/edit more I hella was skipping thru and was losing concentration
Tim... not all games have the potential to be equally successful. There is no correlation between how much effort you put into a game and how popular that game is. When one of your games really takes off, it's going to be lightning in a bottle. There's no such thing as "Bioware magic." Do the math on all that, and you'll see that game dev isn't about each game being more popular than the last, any more than youtube is about each video getting more views than the last. It's all hooks and luck and force multipliers. Search your spreadsheets. You know it to be true.
It's like math. Someone can tell you 3x4=12 but if you don't understand it's actually 3+3+3+3, it's going to be very difficult for you to understand 3x5 and so on
I think I am confused after watching this
I think do everything. try all the conventional stuff and try think of unconventional stuff.
people should stop doing marketing and start selling games.
I mean why do people spend money for twitter followers? Imagine Twitter goes down one day. People who only sell 3 copies didnt went outside and sold their game. If my game would be done I would speak to every stranger on the street that fits into my target group. Or maybe better: start communicating to people on discord. Ask them to play a demo. Just try to sell your game!! Or am I wrong?????
Yes, you are. By talking to everyone on the street you will lose 10 times more time to earn 1 potential buyer. It’s better than doing no marketing at all, but completely ineffective.
Shouting to people to buy your game will never really work. You need to be much smarter than that. People hate if you want to force them to do what you want. You need to make something they want, and then only show it to them so they start wanting to buy it themselves.
There is a factor that: most of the games are bad.
So a lot of the failures were already bad.
TLDR; learn psycology. It will help you sell games
first
bum