helpful video. One suggestion I learned from a plumber. Leave it always ON, plug into a smart plug (available almost anywhere for under $15), and control it with your phone instead. You can use your phone to program it to turn on/off whenever you want, from anywhere. Way easier than using the 1970's dial.
Really nice video. Simple and to the point, even mentioning how the seal is made as well as what to do if the stem leaks. I am a plumber and appreciate people who spread the knowledge.
Hard to believe I'm the first commenter...I'm new to all this re-cir pump stuff but after buying and refurb/remodeling my mobile home and final resting place I decided to try this system for my kitchen sink...which is way on the other end of my place. So I found one of these units on Ebay and installed it. For me the install was a piece of cake, but I'm very mechanically inclined. I only needed one medium crescent wrench... Done! Beware...the two main fittings in and out of the pump use a "ONE" way valve. Once installed I had questions so I contacted the tech service hot line provided with the literature. I was amazed at how quite this unit is...as the tech guy said... these pumps are quiet and some are very quiet. My other concern was that the motor/cartridge housing get fairly hot. The Tech guy confirmed that yes it does...when the pump is operating. After 24hrs this has been confirmed. OKAY...now here's the rub. Instant "HOT" water? Not gonna happen. Hot water within a minute is acceptable. Now for the rub...The way this works is that it keeps the hot water circulating thru your water system...hot side to cold side constantly, or should I say warm side when not in use. The pump thermo sensor controls this. BUT...on the flip side...if you want "COLD" water it take as much or more time for that to happen...hence the rub or trade off. So for me...instead of waiting "Literally" 2 minutes for warm to hot water...I get "warm" water pretty much at the hit, and the hot within a minute...which is much better than my original system. So... okay...it does a pretty good job. Now the final test will just be time & reliability. I did a LOT of research and shopping around...and some of these pumps are ridiculously expensive! This original post was from an Eastman Nevercold 70601 under sink unit video. I do a lot of business with Amazon and the Eastman water heater top mount unit on Amazon is under $300 bucks. But essentially the same unit under sink mount is over $500 bucks! I don't get that. If anything it should be the same or less and they would sell a ton of these under sink units. They are really easy to install. So there's my take...worth a couple hundred bucks...and I'm reasonably satisfied...and that's no easy task.
My husband and I just installed this exact product today and I hopeful but skeptical. We completed the install in about an hour (we were being goofy or it would have been faster). I thought it was going to take an hour or more for the system to kick in and start working but we had hot water to the bathroom sink right away. We used to never get hot water to the sinks in the bathrooms, it took too long to wait for it to heat up and the showers took 5+ minutes to get tepid hot water in the winter but it was heating up in 30 seconds. So far I love this and wish we had known about it for the last 12 years that we have lived in this house. I'll update my post if anything changes but so far I love it and it doesn't hum any more than a refrigerator, something I can certainly live with! Looking forward to hot showers and lower water bills!
Thanks for the report, and you must have followed directions, yes circulation pumps work. Some piping is more complex and the house lay out is problematic, but your must be a simple layout. Enjoy and save both water and energy.
Greg Chick We followed your video tutorial instead of the directions in the box since the product was the same thing you installed in the video! Your video saved us a ton of money paying someone else for installation! Thanks!
This was a clear and informative video. Thank you. Had 2 plumbers cemo out and try to get to buy a thankless water heater. My water heater works and gets hot water everywhere. However hot water to the kitchen and guest bathroom sink takes forever. Neither one mention this option. Smh. $300 for this pump or $4000-$6000 new water heater.
There are different hot water piping layouts, all layouts do not use same circulation pump system. Pumps can go at the wtr. htr. or at the far fixture, as well different timers and controls are used to make work best or even at all. This is not a simple solution. As well, you guessed it, a tankless is not the answer, they do NOT get water to far end faster. Fasterhotwater.com. is best source for a system. The video you watched is an older video look at my newer video on circulation...
Yes I got a newer model and installed it in my kitchen after watching your video. It was pretty straight forward thank to you. I'm happy and it saved me thousands as a plumber was trying to convince me I needed a new tankless water heater. Lol
thanks boss for this video I'd been looking at others on here with their systems and non of them said anything about letting the system run 24 / 7 as my wife and I are retired we are home most of the time so that is how we will use it. and as we are also adding reclaiming system to take our bath as well as sinks water to flush our toilet these 2 systems should safe us water and money. Thanx again.
Thank you for this video! Your instructions are very clear! Would you consider posting a video showing how to install the pump under a kitchen sink that has a garbage disposal? Also, would you explain further WHY the pump works? Thanks again!
All I can say is I'm extremely happy with my Hot Water Lobster. I had a pump system in my last house. The pump system filled the entire cold water pipes with boiling hot water for the entire time the pump was running...it was impossible to get water cool enough to shower in...and the pump only lasted 2-years before failing. Oh well, to each his own.
That was the best DIY video I have ever seen...thank you. I will put that pump in myself, wish me luck. I will follow along with your video as I go. Thanks again
This just seems like a beautiful way of allowing Legionnaires, the correct way to keep your hot water permanently hot is to have a piped return in the system, this mean there's a hot flow and return, doing as they say, Its used mainly in larger buildings such as hospital, but more and more in larger houses. BUT your best installing it when the first fix is being done due to the degree off pipework that's needed.
Thank you for very clear lecture and very good presentation the only question is suppose you have several faucets, bathroom, shower, kitchen sink..etc then I assume you have to install a pump at each point.
Ed, No, the pipe goes frpm water heater tp the distant faucet, along the way, it passes the ones between. The crossovers if used can go at the end of the longest run, and if a T shaped house has such a branch, a bridge crossover valve can go there to allow circulation in that "Wing" of the house. There are different home piping layouts, details matter, but to cut to the chase short answer, no, one pump.
Thanks for reply, The pressure of the water comes out of the wall under the sink (warm&cold) is too low (approximately 1 bar). I want to increase/boost it to 3 bar. It has to start when i open the faucet and stop when close the faucet. The price musn't exceed $130,- And must be small as possible. I haven't more place than what you have in the video and live in Turkey. So the wall outlet is 220 V AC. Thank you for your help.
Very good instruction. Can you install two recirculating pumps? I've already got one installed on the water heater. I would like to know if I can install an additional one like the way you did below the sink.
I'm not a professional so take with a grain of salt but for just a single house I remember my buddy saying it would be counter productive. Essentially they'll just be fighting one another overworking.
Yes I get a lot of e-mail and comment's thanking me it's really up lifting and make it all worth wild very humbling. And at the same time I'm just like every one ells. I find a lot of great videos on here that help me. Like work on cars, electrical, Learning computer software program how to. It's endless. Any way you have a great day.
So if I understand how this works, you save water by not having to wait for the hot water to heat up. But aren't you losing water by waiting for the water to cool in the cold side? We also are heating up the cold side piping which is typically not insulated so energy will have to be made up by the hot water heater as it recirculates through it? Especially in the colder months of the year.
Interesting...I found a similar hot water recirculation valve that is much esier to install. Thermal convection circulates the water-so no pump is required. I installed it several months ago in less than 15-miutes and it has been working great! If you are interested it is called the "Hot Water Lobster". Billy-D
Yes, the thermostat valves can go anywhere, and several, not a problem. The Laing makes a unique pump and a timer is a good feature as is an aquastat. The timer can be just one of those plug into the wall for a lamp sort of thing or built on the pump. One issue with multiple floors is air in the line. Purging out all air is needed.
Thermal expansion, yeah probably. A T & P valve should be in order near the top of the piping system in the "collector" and a needle valve up there to release trapped air and back venting draining.... Mr. Greg, what kind of timer can I use for the shorter 2 or 3 minute on/off intervals? Any suggestion of brand name for me to search? Need something that will last for more than just a few months...
Hi loved the video - I am not handy. I live in San Diego too. Are issue is we have a Tankless water heater on the opposite end of the house that always makes it cold during winter waiting for the warm up. Last year we had a slab leak and our pipes are in the attic. So the cold is even worse. Does this video work similar with a rinnei tankless? The odd part during the repipe our plummer brought it up but with our limited knowledge we did not want to spend more money. Is it something your plumbing company can do?
When the pump turns off due to temperature being met and stops the flow of water, how much does the temperature have to drop before it turns on again to bring more hot water along? When it does turn on again, isn't it going to pump moderately hot or at least very warm water down the cold line? What if after that you want cold water? Won't the cold line then be full of mildly hot water?
Water and gas, which one is cheaper? You may end up to pay more on gas than water! My best guess is if you have the return water from the circulation, you will definitely have the gas stove reheat your tank or your tankless. Water in my area is still much cheaper than gas!
great video,I'm trying to save water bring that its become expensive to use.I have" no water tank so what type of pump would be best for this type of situation
Due to using the closed loop system within the hot/cold water plumbings, it is very important that the water heater is clean because you will be drinking from it. This hot water will be circulated within your potable water system as well. All the sediments, corrosion, calcium deposits, rotten egg smell (if any) will be part of your drinking water. I would flush the water heater at least twice a year and change the anode rod every year if you have a recirculating pump.
i don't have a water tank just a boiler, if I put this under the sink will it also give instant hot water in the shower? or will I have to put one also in the bathroom?
Yea, if I had endless time and resources our site could double or more the content and then viewers then we could sell this valuable service to the public for a win win trade. Till then we dream of going viral... Do you get e mails thanking you ?
Is there a way to have a recirculation pump close to the source (tankless water heater) that is initiated manually (wireless remote), but at the fixture furthest from the source, an unpowered bypass valve? There are no recirculation loops in this house either. I have seen something on Amazon.com, for a bypass valve by Grundflous, but nothing else. We do not want the recirculation pump at the furthest fixture because it is a pedestal sink. Great video.
Thanks, I always wanted to install this but thought it had to be done at the water heater. I do waste 1 minute of water waiting for the hot to come out.
A lot of this working efficiently for comfort surely depends on the differential in temperature between on/off on the pump thermo stat. If it's only a matter of 1-2 degrees the pump will be constantly pulsing the cold line with warm-hot water during the time frame the pump is set to run, which causes an issue if you have the cold open too. I guess you could hope to rely on the cold neutralizing the entirety of hot pulses. I'd be interested to know how well it works in actual application?
Darrell, That is a good option, many people have done that. One issue is often the light switch is not near the location the pump can go. But in the smaller bathrooms the location often works. An amp capacity check is in order, as sometimes the exaust fan is also on that circut! I have known installs that require a good electrican to arrange safely and to code. Done this way, the best is to use a fast velocity pump, one that matches the pipe size and distance from water heater. As well put an aquastat on the pump so when light is on, the pump only runs till hot water is there, and no more, yet again if needed. Thanks for the comment, it allowed me to share some details with everyone.
Well, in theory this thing will save money (and water). In Canada this pump costs some $1800. There is a lot of water to waste to make up for that kind of money, I hope you understand what I mean.
T&P valves are not for operation, that is like using air bags for brakes. A Thermal exp. tank is a good addition to any home where pressure at street is over 80 psi, or a check valve is used in the system.
We moved into this house (built in 2010) that has a tankless water heater. I looked under one of the bathrooms sinks and found this extra house that is connected (on the side) to the water hose going to each faucet and then the extra hoses join together in a small box in the center, under the faucet. Any idea what it could be and is it unique to tankless?
@@gregchick3311 Thanks - just caught up with the tech and bridge / crossover valves. I'll probably go with motion sensors as scheduling would be a challenge.
I recommend ACT Demand circa. pump in general. If you want a circa. pump on a tankless water heater, the Mfgr. recommendation takes priority over my recommendations for warranty reasons, if they specify. The layout of piping might require a high head pump, or the pipe size might require a pump designed to move volume, not pressure..... Plumbing design is different than opinions, it needs to be based on protocol set by physics.
At 9:02 of the video, you mention that it will thermostatically run when it needs to keep the pipe warm, and turn off when it is warm enough. Is the user able to set that temperature? Are all these recirculating pumps thermostatically controlled? The Grundfos UP models have a thermostatic valve for under the sink, so will that pump then keep trying to run until the valve opens up again? Your video is helpful because I have wanted to install the pump under the sink, so thank you.
Thanks for getting back to me. The system in the video, is there any way to not have warm water coming out of the cold side of the faucet when the cold water valve is activated for cold water only? It seams that running hot water back through the cold water pipe will give you warm water if the cold water is used.
It depends on how the piping is layed out. The full length is circulated, but branches are not. there are pumping systems that do that, but more is needed to be known
If I understand the mechanics correctly, without a dedicated return line, when the water recirculates back through the cold line, we are then drinking water that has been run through the hot water tank? I have always understood that due the use of decaying aluminum anode rods, water from the hot water tank should not be used for drinking or cooking. Is this safe?
In the video you said that if you don’t have an outlet at the sink that you could install the pump at the water Heater. That won’t work as this pump is designed only for installation at the point farthest away from the water Heater This unit has a thermostat which needs to be at the farthest point away from the heater to work. This unit won’t work well unless you have shared water main. Some newer houses have each faucet a home run to a central distribution point. That type won’t work because only one faucet gets the benefit.
I would prefer to have a switch to control when the pump starts and stops. Is there one like that? Or just set to run continously and wire through a switch?
Currently I have a basic duplex outlet installed under my kitchen sink but both outlets are occupied by the plugs for the dishwasher & disposal. Is it okay to install another duplex piggybacked off of the existing one?
Do you have any suggestions for a recirculating pump and timer for a "solar" hot water heating system? I would like to recirculate water through a homemade solar collector, tied into my water heater, and back thru my water heater at about 10 intervals during the hottest part of day for 5 minutes each interval. I need a pump recommendation and a timer that can be set at shorter intervals. Under regular use, the water comes from the hw tank, not the collector outside. I'm in TX heat is free.
Commenting from the UK but I do have this problem - however, our cold water comes straight from the main line outside in the street - I don't have a cold water tank. Would this still work?
Any faucets that are serviced by the line which the pump is installed will have quicker hot water. Be sure to read the fine print if you have hard water. Not all pumps are hard water friendly like RedyTemp pumps are. Period inspection requirements and/or water softener requirements are one down fall that RedyTemp has solved.
Nice video! With this setup do you get much hot water when you turn on the cold water faucet? Do these units have a thermostat or just a timer. Thanks!
Furthest is in bathroom, will this help when I turn on shower, if its connected under sink or should I cut a hole in wall to get to shower and fenagle it that way?? Am thinking, looks easy is a lot of moola and gas and hours of doing it..like so many of my 30 minute jobbers lasting hours or days...
Your question is too open, in what application and from what pressure to what pressure and with or with out an electrical outlet in and how much space available and what price range?
My Laing LHB08100092 re-circulation pump stopped working after about 3 years. I hear the motor running but no hot or warm water as it used to work. What could be the problem?
Thanks for you helpful videos! Will installing a recirculator pump quickly bring hot water to the other fixtures in the room, as well? Would you require an additional pump for other bathrooms in need? And... nice orange Vistalite! :)
I suspect the Pump install was poorly done. Normally the circulators last 15 yrs or more. Also the controls that work the pump are the reason the pump over pumped. I suspect the controls killed the pump and caused the water to be hot on cold side. As a question as to the shower that had cold water that was made hot, is that valve a Moen or a Mixit brand ?
I have the same question as Surge P. Water does not compress well. How does the water from the hot side get pumped into the cold line? Where does that cold water go to?
It circulates, back to water heater where the water heater gets its inlet water. Cold water is what goes into the water heater to get heated. This water is the same water that goes to the cold side of all faucets. The house is fed by one cold source. This is why we call this a circulation system, the water circulates from the hot outlet of the tank, back to the cold side where it re enters the tank... Now one may ask, isnt that reheating the hot water that has cooled down? and yes, it is and that is why it costs fuel to constantly re heat the water.
@@userdjl It is just a circulator, instead of a pump... actually the "Pump" used will lift /push water up a pipe to a hight of 15' high, then the pump just spins and no more movement! That is what the term "foot of head" means how many feet above head... so to speak. the water pipes are pressureized to say, 60 or 80 PSI, but that is any direction, the circulator just moves it inside that pressure..
if you install this on the faucet farthest from the hot water tank, does it only bring instant hot water to that specific faucet or to every faucet in the house?
What happens to the cold water that is sitting in the cold water line when water from the hot side comes and pushes the water? So where does the water that was sitting in the cold water line go? Does it go back in the city line? And does your meter go backwards by the amount of water that was initially in the cold water line?
Dear Greg, I just watched your video and found it interesting--thanks! This same unit is installed on our water heater and has been for 5 years... But I think the water heater is going out and will only heat to hot if all the way on "very hot". Unlike it was so very hot even on vacation mode when new! So, I really need to have that looked into. I am by no means savvy in these kinds of thing by far. However, since this pump is installed shouldn't it somehow heat the water even if the actual water heater is going? Or does it just hold it and or recirculated it. Or, am I missing how this device works all together. Only when water is very hot from heater it still comes out hot within 2 seconds and once again probably the water heater and can't circulate what is not there. I may have answered my own question, but thought I would ask the expert. Many thanks....
This Lobster could be a monster for a house that needs a pump and this Lobster is bought and does not work. In order for it to work there must either be pitched pipes in house, or thermal expansion pushing the water around to loop it. I suggest if thermal expansion is pushing water there is trouble head with a flood from thermal expansion pressures trapped in piping system. A pump does not create such pressure, a pump just circulates creating harmless pressure in doing so.
Yes, to a degree, but the crossover valve is thermostatic and automatically closes when hot water gets to the vavle and closes it. So, the "to a degree" means some warm water can be felt on the cold side for a second, but the crossover is limited. The option is to install a pipe from the fartherest faucet all the way back the the cold inlet at the water heater. This is expensive, sometimes impoissible. So a way to circulate water is done this way.
Thermal siphon will only work if pipe is pitched, most places are not pitched, so you got lucky. The new code has prohibited 24 hr. circulation because the heat loss is prohibitive, literally.
Michael, Tankless water heaters require a min. flow to trigger the burner. Different tankless units by different makers have factory approved pumps and pump controls. Some tankless units have built in pumps. Others have built in control wires to power and or control circ pumps. Best to contact the maker of your tankless and get a schematic and pump spec needed for your unit.
I certainly hope you are not a licensed plumbing contractor and do work like this. The pump system is fine. The install job. Definitely a handyman grade job. Plus, set your timer to come on at 6:00am turn off at 6:15. The hot water will get to your furthest fixture in less than 15 minutes . Then you will be using the hot water. No need to run the pump anymore at the time period. Next time. Try mounting the pump on the wall first. Then run your lines. You can lay them out much neater. Not all twisted up & taking up the lady of the house cabinet space.
Lee Olaeta so your saying the homeowner has a gap time between 6:15 - 6:45 to use his instant hot water? After about 30 minutes the water in the pipe should have dropped down temperature. Also his installation is not bad. No kinks in lines and it’s not in the way of the cabinet space. You might find easier to mount the pump first. Both ways will work some people do things different at the end there still potatoes 🥔 I’ve hade license plumbers with over 20 year experience ( not cheap guys) and there installation is bad. Trust me I’ve seen bad.
There is always a guy like you in the comment section that can’t help but point out what they deem to be a problem. Maybe you should post a video where you do it the right way. This is aimed at lee
Yeah Lee, maybe this gentleman lives alone and doesn’t give shit ‘bout cabinet space. You should get a pump circulating some of that cold water outta your heart brah.
I herd you say that we could install the pump at the hot water tank of just put cross overs under the sinks do you have a video of that insulation. thanks.
One thing that wasn't covered. I know of no bathroom vanities that have an outlet under the sink. Care to discuss how I can get power for this system? I have two bathrooms upstairs that could benefit from this system.
when i installed mine, i simply pulled power from the wall behind my vanity and put an outlet under my sink. easy peasy. or you can pull it from the wall next to your vanity and mount an outlet inside your vanity.
Has anyone done a payback analysis on the water savings vs the cost of the pump, and including the extra cost of heating the water? Obviously there will be more heat lost from the circulating hot water. Be sure to insulate the pipes. How much water will be lost when you have to let the cold water run to get a cold drink? This might make sense for a public washroom where you don't care about getting cold water. Especially with low-flow faucets that take forever to get hot water from a distant heater. In this case, it might make more sense to install a small point-of-use heater.
no appreiciable difference in cold where i live. the main thing is that you don't have to wait for hot water, whcih in my case was as much as 4 minutes wait. add that up over a lifetime and that is a lot of wasted time.
hi Kevin ,I have well water at my house . although I do not have the circulation pump for the instant hot water ,I lose 1 gallon of water just waiting for my water to get hot from the hot water tank. I hope this helps somewhat. I do know that it would save me water having the circulation pump. Now Im not on city water so other than the cost of my well system my water is free ,however why waste the gallon of water waiting for hot water
Thank you for the info.... makes sense (cents really) and with hard time with our fresh water system - everyone should take advantage of this easy task. Bod Haddock ask if yo have a video for installing a pump to the hot water heater - do you? It would be nice if you did. How much does a recirculating like the one you installed cost? Once again thank you for the info. Ray Bazan
WHY should everyone do this? For the dubious usefulness of instant hot water? If you are that upset about lost water down the drain, put a bucket under the faucet and meditate until hot water arrives. Use the water collected in the bucket for other useful purposes.
Water Softener question. I have a tankless water heater and salt water softener. Do I need to make any changes to the lines for it? Also, Do you recomend an expansion tank?
So if I have one bathroom on a loop and the sink is before the shower, but obviously I want to install the bypass under the sink b/c it is accessible. The only negative is that there will be instant hot water at the sink (when the pump is on) and a couple second delay at the shower b/c it is a few feet down the line? Is this correct?
helpful video. One suggestion I learned from a plumber. Leave it always ON, plug into a smart plug (available almost anywhere for under $15), and control it with your phone instead. You can use your phone to program it to turn on/off whenever you want, from anywhere. Way easier than using the 1970's dial.
Really nice video. Simple and to the point, even mentioning how the seal is made as well as what to do if the stem leaks. I am a plumber and appreciate people who spread the knowledge.
Installed a circulation pump at my house today because of this video. Ready for instant hot water this winter :) Thank you for the great video.
Seeing how the manufacturer has the 'ON-OFF' time set was the one thing I was not sure of. Thanks!
Hard to believe I'm the first commenter...I'm new to all this re-cir pump stuff but after buying and refurb/remodeling my mobile home and final resting place I decided to try this system for my kitchen sink...which is way on the other end of my place. So I found one of these units on Ebay and installed it. For me the install was a piece of cake, but I'm very mechanically inclined. I only needed one medium crescent wrench... Done! Beware...the two main fittings in and out of the pump use a "ONE" way valve. Once installed I had questions so I contacted the tech service hot line provided with the literature. I was amazed at how quite this unit is...as the tech guy said... these pumps are quiet and some are very quiet. My other concern was that the motor/cartridge housing get fairly hot. The Tech guy confirmed that yes it does...when the pump is operating. After 24hrs this has been confirmed. OKAY...now here's the rub. Instant "HOT" water? Not gonna happen. Hot water within a minute is acceptable. Now for the rub...The way this works is that it keeps the hot water circulating thru your water system...hot side to cold side constantly, or should I say warm side when not in use. The pump thermo sensor controls this. BUT...on the flip side...if you want "COLD" water it take as much or more time for that to happen...hence the rub or trade off. So for me...instead of waiting "Literally" 2 minutes for warm to hot water...I get "warm" water pretty much at the hit, and the hot within a minute...which is much better than my original system. So... okay...it does a pretty good job. Now the final test will just be time & reliability. I did a LOT of research and shopping around...and some of these pumps are ridiculously expensive! This original post was from an Eastman Nevercold 70601 under sink unit video. I do a lot of business with Amazon and the Eastman water heater top mount unit on Amazon is under $300 bucks. But essentially the same unit under sink mount is over $500 bucks! I don't get that. If anything it should be the same or less and they would sell a ton of these under sink units. They are really easy to install. So there's my take...worth a couple hundred bucks...and I'm reasonably satisfied...and that's no easy task.
My husband and I just installed this exact product today and I hopeful but skeptical. We completed the install in about an hour (we were being goofy or it would have been faster). I thought it was going to take an hour or more for the system to kick in and start working but we had hot water to the bathroom sink right away. We used to never get hot water to the sinks in the bathrooms, it took too long to wait for it to heat up and the showers took 5+ minutes to get tepid hot water in the winter but it was heating up in 30 seconds. So far I love this and wish we had known about it for the last 12 years that we have lived in this house. I'll update my post if anything changes but so far I love it and it doesn't hum any more than a refrigerator, something I can certainly live with! Looking forward to hot showers and lower water bills!
Thanks for the report, and you must have followed directions, yes circulation pumps work. Some piping is more complex and the house lay out is problematic, but your must be a simple layout. Enjoy and save both water and energy.
Greg Chick
We followed your video tutorial instead of the directions in the box since the product was the same thing you installed in the video! Your video saved us a ton of money paying someone else for installation! Thanks!
This was a clear and informative video. Thank you. Had 2 plumbers cemo out and try to get to buy a thankless water heater. My water heater works and gets hot water everywhere. However hot water to the kitchen and guest bathroom sink takes forever. Neither one mention this option. Smh. $300 for this pump or $4000-$6000 new water heater.
There are different hot water piping layouts, all layouts do not use same circulation pump system. Pumps can go at the wtr. htr. or at the far fixture, as well different timers and controls are used to make work best or even at all. This is not a simple solution. As well, you guessed it, a tankless is not the answer, they do NOT get water to far end faster. Fasterhotwater.com. is best source for a system. The video you watched is an older video look at my newer video on circulation...
Yes I got a newer model and installed it in my kitchen after watching your video. It was pretty straight forward thank to you. I'm happy and it saved me thousands as a plumber was trying to convince me I needed a new tankless water heater. Lol
thanks boss for this video I'd been looking at others on here with their systems and non of them said anything about letting the system run 24 / 7 as my wife and I are retired we are home most of the time so that is how we will use it. and as we are also adding reclaiming system to take our bath as well as sinks water to flush our toilet these 2 systems should safe us water and money. Thanx again.
I put one of these in my house 20 years ago and its still working fine.
are you serious? Has this idea been around for 20 years?
Thank you for this video! Your instructions are very clear! Would you consider posting a video showing how to install the pump under a kitchen sink that has a garbage disposal? Also, would you explain further WHY the pump works? Thanks again!
Call me, I will tell you directly, videos are a lot of work...760-788-2889, Greg
All I can say is I'm extremely happy with my Hot Water Lobster. I had a pump system in my last house. The pump system filled the entire cold water pipes with boiling hot water for the entire time the pump was running...it was impossible to get water cool enough to shower in...and the pump only lasted 2-years before failing. Oh well, to each his own.
That was the best DIY video I have ever seen...thank you. I will put that pump in myself, wish me luck. I will follow along with your video as I go. Thanks again
Very good, clear, easy to understand and easy follow instructions. Thanks !!
Thank you Greg for the clear and concise explaination. I learned alot and feel confident in installing my Nevercold pump! Great work!
This just seems like a beautiful way of allowing Legionnaires, the correct way to keep your hot water permanently hot is to have a piped return in the system, this mean there's a hot flow and return, doing as they say, Its used mainly in larger buildings such as hospital, but more and more in larger houses. BUT your best installing it when the first fix is being done due to the degree off pipework that's needed.
Thank you for very clear lecture and very good presentation the only question is suppose you have several faucets, bathroom, shower, kitchen sink..etc then I assume you have to install a pump at each point.
Ed,
No, the pipe goes frpm water heater tp the distant faucet, along the way, it passes the ones between. The crossovers if used can go at the end of the longest run, and if a T shaped house has such a branch, a bridge crossover valve can go there to allow circulation in that "Wing" of the house. There are different home piping layouts, details matter, but to cut to the chase short answer, no, one pump.
Thanks for reply,
The pressure of the water comes out of the wall under the sink (warm&cold) is too low (approximately 1 bar). I want to increase/boost it to 3 bar.
It has to start when i open the faucet and stop when close the faucet. The price musn't exceed $130,- And must be small as possible.
I haven't more place than what you have in the video and live in Turkey. So the wall outlet is 220 V AC.
Thank you for your help.
Very good instruction. Can you install two recirculating pumps? I've already got one installed on the water heater. I would like to know if I can install an additional one like the way you did below the sink.
I'm not a professional so take with a grain of salt but for just a single house I remember my buddy saying it would be counter productive. Essentially they'll just be fighting one another overworking.
Yes I get a lot of e-mail and comment's thanking me it's really up lifting and make it all worth wild very humbling. And at the same time I'm just like every one ells. I find a lot of great videos on here that help me. Like work on cars, electrical, Learning computer software program how to. It's endless. Any way you have a great day.
So if I understand how this works, you save water by not having to wait for the hot water to heat up. But aren't you losing water by waiting for the water to cool in the cold side? We also are heating up the cold side piping which is typically not insulated so energy will have to be made up by the hot water heater as it recirculates through it? Especially in the colder months of the year.
Interesting...I found a similar hot water recirculation valve that is much esier to install. Thermal convection circulates the water-so no pump is required. I installed it several months ago in less than 15-miutes and it has been working great! If you are interested it is called the "Hot Water Lobster". Billy-D
Yes, the thermostat valves can go anywhere, and several, not a problem. The Laing makes a unique pump and a timer is a good feature as is an aquastat. The timer can be just one of those plug into the wall for a lamp sort of thing or built on the pump. One issue with multiple floors is air in the line. Purging out all air is needed.
Thermal expansion, yeah probably. A T & P valve should be in order near the top of the piping system in the "collector" and a needle valve up there to release trapped air and back venting draining.... Mr. Greg, what kind of timer can I use for the shorter 2 or 3 minute on/off intervals? Any suggestion of brand name for me to search? Need something that will last for more than just a few months...
Hi loved the video - I am not handy. I live in San Diego too. Are issue is we have a Tankless water heater on the opposite end of the house that always makes it cold during winter waiting for the warm up. Last year we had a slab leak and our pipes are in the attic. So the cold is even worse. Does this video work similar with a rinnei tankless? The odd part during the repipe our plummer brought it up but with our limited knowledge we did not want to spend more money. Is it something your plumbing company can do?
When the pump turns off due to temperature being met and stops the flow of water, how much does the temperature have to drop before it turns on again to bring more hot water along? When it does turn on again, isn't it going to pump moderately hot or at least very warm water down the cold line? What if after that you want cold water? Won't the cold line then be full of mildly hot water?
Water and gas, which one is cheaper? You may end up to pay more on gas than water!
My best guess is if you have the return water from the circulation, you will definitely have the gas stove reheat your tank or your tankless. Water in my area is still much cheaper than gas!
great video,I'm trying to save water bring that its become expensive to use.I have" no water tank so what type of pump would be best for this type of situation
This pump can give hot water to all faucets in the house or just this one?
Thanks for this video. It answered a big question for me about the bracket. So simple though. I was afraid of breaking it!
Due to using the closed loop system within the hot/cold water plumbings, it is very important that the water heater is clean because you will be drinking from it. This hot water will be circulated within your potable water system as well. All the sediments, corrosion, calcium deposits, rotten egg smell (if any) will be part of your drinking water. I would flush the water heater at least twice a year and change the anode rod every year if you have a recirculating pump.
i don't have a water tank just a boiler, if I put this under the sink will it also give instant hot water in the shower? or will I have to put one also in the bathroom?
Yea, if I had endless time and resources our site could double or more the content and then viewers then we could sell this valuable service to the public for a win win trade. Till then we dream of going viral...
Do you get e mails thanking you ?
I’m want to install this pump in my kitchen but I have a boiler suppling my domestic hot water. Will this pump work the same way
Is there a way to have a recirculation pump close to the source (tankless water heater) that is initiated manually (wireless remote), but at the fixture furthest from the source, an unpowered bypass valve? There are no recirculation loops in this house either. I have seen something on Amazon.com, for a bypass valve by Grundflous, but nothing else. We do not want the recirculation pump at the furthest fixture because it is a pedestal sink. Great video.
Thanks, I always wanted to install this but thought it had to be done at the water heater. I do waste 1 minute of water waiting for the hot to come out.
A lot of this working efficiently for comfort surely depends on the differential in temperature between on/off on the pump thermo stat. If it's only a matter of 1-2 degrees the pump will be constantly pulsing the cold line with warm-hot water during the time frame the pump is set to run, which causes an issue if you have the cold open too. I guess you could hope to rely on the cold neutralizing the entirety of hot pulses. I'd be interested to know how well it works in actual application?
How loud is the pump? And also. How does it work?
I would make the power outlet tied to the light so the pump only gets power when the light is on. I always turn the light on when I use the bathroom.
Darrell,
That is a good option, many people have done that. One issue is often the light switch is not near the location the pump can go. But in the smaller bathrooms the location often works. An amp capacity check is in order, as sometimes the exaust fan is also on that circut! I have known installs that require a good electrican to arrange safely and to code. Done this way, the best is to use a fast velocity pump, one that matches the pipe size and distance from water heater. As well put an aquastat on the pump so when light is on, the pump only runs till hot water is there, and no more, yet again if needed.
Thanks for the comment, it allowed me to share some details with everyone.
Well, in theory this thing will save money (and water). In Canada this pump costs some $1800. There is a lot of water to waste to make up for that kind of money, I hope you understand what I mean.
This makes more pressure for hot and cold water?
T&P valves are not for operation, that is like using air bags for brakes. A Thermal exp. tank is a good addition to any home where pressure at street is over 80 psi, or a check valve is used in the system.
We moved into this house (built in 2010) that has a tankless water heater. I looked under one of the bathrooms sinks and found this extra house that is connected (on the side) to the water hose going to each faucet and then the extra hoses join together in a small box in the center, under the faucet. Any idea what it could be and is it unique to tankless?
Great video - can it be installed in the basement to reduce the noise?
Pumps circulate water, the schimatic says where is effective. If the end of the loop is in the basement, then yes.
@@gregchick3311 Thanks - just caught up with the tech and bridge / crossover valves. I'll probably go with motion sensors as scheduling would be a challenge.
@@boedillard8807 Switching by motion or button is best. Wi-Fi is an option today, batteries on sender!
Is it better with on demand button?
I recommend ACT Demand circa. pump in general. If you want a circa. pump on a tankless water heater, the Mfgr. recommendation takes priority over my recommendations for warranty reasons, if they specify. The layout of piping might require a high head pump, or the pipe size might require a pump designed to move volume, not pressure..... Plumbing design is different than opinions, it needs to be based on protocol set by physics.
At 9:02 of the video, you mention that it will thermostatically run when it needs to keep the pipe warm, and turn off when it is warm enough. Is the user able to set that temperature? Are all these recirculating pumps thermostatically controlled? The Grundfos UP models have a thermostatic valve for under the sink, so will that pump then keep trying to run until the valve opens up again? Your video is helpful because I have wanted to install the pump under the sink, so thank you.
Very good video easy to follow, thanks
Hello,
Do you have such a thing for repressuring either the cold or the hot water comes out of the wall?
Thank you for your video.
Thanks for getting back to me. The system in the video, is there any way to not have warm water coming out of the cold side of the faucet when the cold water valve is activated for cold water only? It seams that running hot water back through the cold water pipe will give you warm water if the cold water is used.
It depends on how the piping is layed out. The full length is circulated, but branches are not. there are pumping systems that do that, but more is needed to be known
If I understand the mechanics correctly, without a dedicated return line, when the water recirculates back through the cold line, we are then drinking water that has been run through the hot water tank? I have always understood that due the use of decaying aluminum anode rods, water from the hot water tank should not be used for drinking or cooking. Is this safe?
In the video you said that if you don’t have an outlet at the sink that you could install the pump at the water Heater. That won’t work as this pump is designed only for installation at the point farthest away from the water Heater This unit has a thermostat which needs to be at the farthest point away from the heater to work.
This unit won’t work well unless you have shared water main. Some newer houses have each faucet a home run to a central distribution point. That type won’t work because only one faucet gets the benefit.
Instead of the goal to have immediate hot water.....can you rig the system to prevent water line freezing of the home's lines?
I would prefer to have a switch to control when the pump starts and stops. Is there one like that? Or just set to run continously and wire through a switch?
If i understand you i need to install pump in my hot water recirculation line? My goes into the bottom of tanks drain valve have a tee installed.
Wouldn’t you want to install this on a second floor fixture? Farthest away?
Currently I have a basic duplex outlet installed under my kitchen sink but both outlets are occupied by the plugs for the dishwasher & disposal. Is it okay to install another duplex piggybacked off of the existing one?
Do you have any suggestions for a recirculating pump and timer for a "solar" hot water heating system? I would like to recirculate water through a homemade solar collector, tied into my water heater, and back thru my water heater at about 10 intervals during the hottest part of day for 5 minutes each interval. I need a pump recommendation and a timer that can be set at shorter intervals. Under regular use, the water comes from the hw tank, not the collector outside. I'm in TX heat is free.
Commenting from the UK but I do have this problem - however, our cold water comes straight from the main line outside in the street - I don't have a cold water tank. Would this still work?
will the circulation pump at the furthest point help other ,closer (to the hot water tank ) hot water draw ?
Any faucets that are serviced by the line which the pump is installed will have quicker hot water. Be sure to read the fine print if you have hard water. Not all pumps are hard water friendly like RedyTemp pumps are. Period inspection requirements and/or water softener requirements are one down fall that RedyTemp has solved.
Nice video! With this setup do you get much hot water when you turn on the cold water faucet? Do these units have a thermostat or just a timer. Thanks!
What am I missing or complicating? Unless you have additional return hose to main hot water system I dont understand how this would actually work.
Furthest is in bathroom, will this help when I turn on shower, if its connected under sink or should I cut a hole in wall to get to shower and fenagle it that way?? Am thinking, looks easy is a lot of moola and gas and hours of doing it..like so many of my 30 minute jobbers lasting hours or days...
My left ear really enjoyed this video.
how noisy is the pump? maybe that's a good reason to put it outside?
A personal evaluation, it's quieter than a faucet flowing water..
Your question is too open, in what application and from what pressure to what pressure and with or with out an electrical outlet in and how much space available and what price range?
Hi, I’m worried about the pressure on my cold water line and the pressure of water being forced backwards- any risk to my lines busting? Thanks
My Laing LHB08100092 re-circulation pump stopped working after about 3 years. I hear the motor running but no hot or warm water as it used to work. What could be the problem?
most everyone needs this. done correctly it saves water and power as well as time!..
Thanks for you helpful videos! Will installing a recirculator pump quickly bring hot water to the other fixtures in the room, as well? Would you require an additional pump for other bathrooms in need?
And... nice orange Vistalite! :)
I suspect the Pump install was poorly done. Normally the circulators last 15 yrs or more. Also the controls that work the pump are the reason the pump over pumped. I suspect the controls killed the pump and caused the water to be hot on cold side. As a question as to the shower that had cold water that was made hot, is that valve a Moen or a Mixit brand ?
I have the same question as Surge P. Water does not compress well. How does the water from the hot side get pumped into the cold line? Where does that cold water go to?
It circulates, back to water heater where the water heater gets its inlet water. Cold water is what goes into the water heater to get heated. This water is the same water that goes to the cold side of all faucets. The house is fed by one cold source. This is why we call this a circulation system, the water circulates from the hot outlet of the tank, back to the cold side where it re enters the tank...
Now one may ask, isnt that reheating the hot water that has cooled down? and yes, it is and that is why it costs fuel to constantly re heat the water.
Water is not compressable at all! it does flow to path of least resistance back to the cold inlet of the water heater...
I see the error of my ways. I didn't think about the water being pulled in by by the pump and the output just replacing it.
@@userdjl It is just a circulator, instead of a pump... actually the "Pump" used will lift /push water up a pipe to a hight of 15' high, then the pump just spins and no more movement! That is what the term "foot of head" means how many feet above head... so to speak. the water pipes are pressureized to say, 60 or 80 PSI, but that is any direction, the circulator just moves it inside that pressure..
if you install this on the faucet farthest from the hot water tank, does it only bring instant hot water to that specific faucet or to every faucet in the house?
What is the name of the pump !! I am in Spain were can I buy in Europe
Great video, extremely well presented. Thanks.
Thanks Claude, I will take some time to view yours some day. I watch others and learn too. I wish I had time and resource to do more.
Will this pump work on a tankless water heater?
What happens to the cold water that is sitting in the cold water line when water from the hot side comes and pushes the water?
So where does the water that was sitting in the cold water line go? Does it go back in the city line?
And does your meter go backwards by the amount of water that was initially in the cold water line?
I’ve heard different model can’t use if water heater has heat trap. Does this one work with heat trap in the water heater?
Do you really need one when you live in Arizona?
Dear Greg, I just watched your video and found it interesting--thanks! This same unit is installed on our water heater and has been for 5 years... But I think the water heater is going out and will only heat to hot if all the way on "very hot". Unlike it was so very hot even on vacation mode when new! So, I really need to have that looked into. I am by no means savvy in these kinds of thing by far. However, since this pump is installed shouldn't it somehow heat the water even if the actual water heater is going? Or does it just hold it and or recirculated it. Or, am I missing how this device works all together. Only when water is very hot from heater it still comes out hot within 2 seconds and once again probably the water heater and can't circulate what is not there. I may have answered my own question, but thought I would ask the expert. Many thanks....
This Lobster could be a monster for a house that needs a pump and this Lobster is bought and does not work. In order for it to work there must either be pitched pipes in house, or thermal expansion pushing the water around to loop it. I suggest if thermal expansion is pushing water there is trouble head with a flood from thermal expansion pressures trapped in piping system. A pump does not create such pressure, a pump just circulates creating harmless pressure in doing so.
Great video, thanks!
Doesn't this send hot water into the cold water line? If you open a cold water line in another sink, the water will be warm ?
Yes, to a degree, but the crossover valve is thermostatic and automatically closes when hot water gets to the vavle and closes it. So, the "to a degree" means some warm water can be felt on the cold side for a second, but the crossover is limited. The option is to install a pipe from the fartherest faucet all the way back the the cold inlet at the water heater. This is expensive, sometimes impoissible. So a way to circulate water is done this way.
@@gregchick3311 Thanks for your reply
Thermal siphon will only work if pipe is pitched, most places are not pitched, so you got lucky. The new code has prohibited 24 hr. circulation because the heat loss is prohibitive, literally.
Will this application work if the house is equipped with a tankless water heater?
Michael,
Tankless water heaters require a min. flow to trigger the burner. Different tankless units by different makers have factory approved pumps and pump controls. Some tankless units have built in pumps. Others have built in control wires to power and or control circ pumps. Best to contact the maker of your tankless and get a schematic and pump spec needed for your unit.
Very helpful and useful video
I certainly hope you are not a licensed plumbing contractor and do work like this. The pump system is fine. The install job. Definitely a handyman grade job.
Plus, set your timer to come on at 6:00am turn off at 6:15. The hot water will get to your furthest fixture in less than 15 minutes . Then you will be using the hot water. No need to run the pump anymore at the time period.
Next time. Try mounting the pump on the wall first. Then run your lines. You can lay them out much neater. Not all twisted up & taking up the lady of the house cabinet space.
Lee Olaeta so your saying the homeowner has a gap time between 6:15 - 6:45 to use his instant hot water? After about 30 minutes the water in the pipe should have dropped down temperature. Also his installation is not bad. No kinks in lines and it’s not in the way of the cabinet space. You might find easier to mount the pump first. Both ways will work some people do things different at the end there still potatoes 🥔 I’ve hade license plumbers with over 20 year experience ( not cheap guys) and there installation is bad. Trust me I’ve seen bad.
There is always a guy like you in the comment section that can’t help but point out what they deem to be a problem. Maybe you should post a video where you do it the right way.
This is aimed at lee
Yeah Lee, maybe this gentleman lives alone and doesn’t give shit ‘bout cabinet space. You should get a pump circulating some of that cold water outta your heart brah.
I herd you say that we could install the pump at the hot water tank of just put cross overs under the sinks do you have a video of that insulation. thanks.
One thing that wasn't covered. I know of no bathroom vanities that have an outlet under the sink. Care to discuss how I can get power for this system? I have two bathrooms upstairs that could benefit from this system.
when i installed mine, i simply pulled power from the wall behind my vanity and put an outlet under my sink. easy peasy. or you can pull it from the wall next to your vanity and mount an outlet inside your vanity.
Will this work on a system with a tankless heater water system?
Has anyone done a payback analysis on the water savings vs the cost of the pump, and including the extra cost of heating the water? Obviously there will be more heat lost from the circulating hot water. Be sure to insulate the pipes.
How much water will be lost when you have to let the cold water run to get a cold drink? This might make sense for a public washroom where you don't care about getting cold water. Especially with low-flow faucets that take forever to get hot water from a distant heater. In this case, it might make more sense to install a small point-of-use heater.
Kevin Lundgren
B
no appreiciable difference in cold where i live. the main thing is that you don't have to wait for hot water, whcih in my case was as much as 4 minutes wait. add that up over a lifetime and that is a lot of wasted time.
hi Kevin ,I have well water at my house . although I do not have the circulation pump for the instant hot water ,I lose 1 gallon of water just waiting for my water to get hot from the hot water tank. I hope this helps somewhat. I do know that it would save me water having the circulation pump. Now Im not on city water so other than the cost of my well system my water is free ,however why waste the gallon of water waiting for hot water
Thank you for the info.... makes sense (cents really) and with hard time with our fresh water system - everyone should take advantage of this easy task.
Bod Haddock ask if yo have a video for installing a pump to the hot water heater - do you? It would be nice if you did.
How much does a recirculating like the one you installed cost?
Once again thank you for the info.
Ray Bazan
WHY should everyone do this? For the dubious usefulness of instant hot water? If you are that upset about lost water down the drain, put a bucket under the faucet and meditate until hot water arrives. Use the water collected in the bucket for other useful purposes.
Water Softener question. I have a tankless water heater and salt water softener. Do I need to make any changes to the lines for it? Also, Do you recomend an expansion tank?
does the pump have to be plugged into gfi outlet
Can you tell me what model of pump you used. It looks like what I have and I would like to replace it with the same unit. Thanks
Is there an issue with water pressure as a result of using this pump?
So if I have one bathroom on a loop and the sink is before the shower, but obviously I want to install the bypass under the sink b/c it is accessible. The only negative is that there will be instant hot water at the sink (when the pump is on) and a couple second delay at the shower b/c it is a few feet down the line? Is this correct?
the pump has instructions that show the exact spot to set correct time.
I have this pump for a few years, but it stopped pumping water. Now I can troubleshoot it?