Christine Jorgensen - Hour Magazine
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- Опубліковано 25 лип 2010
- Segment from the daily talk series Hour Magazine hosted by Gary Collins. This segment is from the early 1980s and features the first person to come out as having had gender reassignment surgery (sex change), Christine Jorgensen.
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Gary was far more respectful and understanding than I ever expected a host of that generation to be. Excellent interview.
Linda Goodwin You would be surprised how respectful television hosts were 1, 2 even 3 generations ago. If anything I think TV hosts have actually devolved for the sake of ratings. Media was very limited even a generation ago. Today however there is a second by second competition from every angle. There is social media to contend with that is available 24/7. TV hosts are pressured today to sensationalize while seeming knowledgeable and tolerant a dangerous combination that wasn't available back then.
Yeah I like how he treats her someone totally normal person (even if with a unique life experience).
He still dead named her and started off by calling her Man.
@@zestzonertheoblivious5828 back then, there wasn't anything known as "dead name". He used it to explained who she was in the introduction and not disrespectfully.
Media actually used to be far more respectful towards us, actually telling our stories from our perspectives. Now it’s all about fear mongering and misinformation about how we want to take over the entire world. Trans people’s goals haven’t changed since the 1950s: we still just want to live like everyone else
It breaks my heart how much we've regressed, to the point that her remarks about society sound like something you'd read in yesterday's news.
That's exactly what i was thinking when watching this. I hoped we'd be at a point where we could watch this and be like ''man society was something else back then, glad we got past that mess''. But we still are basically at that point, progress is being made, and i am hopeful for the future, but man we're slow when it comes to this stuff :/
The part about her saying true TG/TS is what resonates then and now. She had a high preponderance of female glands and was truly biologically TG.
Yes I feel that too!
@@mariomaniac581 When the most outspoken transperson is Dylan Mulvaney, you can't only blame the fundamentalists.
@@bunjijumper5345 It wasn't my intention to blame anyone. I moreso meant that i hoped when comparing this footage to todays society it would've been apparent just how much we've progressed, but things only seem to be going backwards.. It was moreso just a comment on the situation as a whole
Interesting how this is in the early eighties and they are talking about how open, tolerant, and enlightened the world is. And that was 35 years ago.
Strange times we are living in...seems now we've gone backwards
You're forgetting that this is only the world being presented by the media back then. Way before the public was aware of the violence that trans people face. Realistically, back then they were probably treated way worse.
@@user-nv9vn8fm1d *"Way before the public was aware of the violence that trans people face."*
This is a person that has gone through sex reassignment surgery.
Not a man that a straight man picked up, only to be humiliated when he found out that he picked up a dude.
@@richardwicks4190 Could you paraphrase what you think I said? I think I might have miscommunicated.
I interpreted the og comment as making it sound like everyone was being super tolerant back then. I replied that the way the audience and show were treating this wasn't representative of most people in America. I think the public today is better in a lot of ways than it was back then.
I wasn't talking about the specific man she used to be with. Like what did I get wrong? (sincerely)
No honey; according from what I see and I know given the wide history and lately events about the LGBT community,,,,,and especially for a trans-wowman....the situation for her woudln't be so subtle and respectful, is she wasn't white and if she did not belonged to a certain branch of the society and some sort of high education,,,,,a one of a kind indeed, because till today,,,,, we see lots of discrimination , hate and violence against the trans community.
For the first person to have a publicly known sex change, it must have been a very brave move for her in the period this happened. I raise my glass to her. An absolutely wonderful story.
She is truly an icon. How ingelligent, articulate and charismatic she was.
No.... SHE! Nobody cares what you think. The world is changing! Go spread your filth somewhere else.
@@ValleyoftheRogue christine was smarter than you
She? Nope, no matter how he thinks or feels he is still is in fact a man, a male. Crazy people!
@@elaineel-adly2872oh !yes chromosomes etc ,go to sleep and take your pills jerk
Exactly! It would have been so nice to know HER in life.
Christine Jorgensen was a shining example for today's transgender community. Shewas brave and courageous.
👏👏👏💯💯💯
Yes, without stomping her feet and demanding that people sit up and do what she wants. She really is a lady, just living her life on her terms… Brava, Christine,
The thing that suprised me most about this was how accepting Christine's family was off her transition. It's amazing to think that the parents of one of the first transwoman ever were more accepting than some parents are transgender people today.
*one of the first famous and openly trans women in america. sorry, not to play semantics
@@bogmanhimself4656 Was going to say pretty much the same thing, but you beat me to it. It's semantics, but it's an extremely important distinction.
*his.
You can blame the religious right bigots that won't accept anything outside of their narrow views of the world.
Soon everything will be revealed
She was such an intelligent and well spoken person, love when she says that the reassignment surgery will not change your life completely, its who you are that is important.
Then there is no point in having SRS, is there? Jorgensen's life was a tragedy.
Susan Nunes She seems pretty happy.
He
Susan Nunes why do u even care? Chromosomally a transperson will never be their desired sex. That is true. But they do what they can to make their outside match who they feel like, It isn't hurting anyone to use their preferred pronouns. U might come into contact with transpeople who "pass" every day & are not activists ... and u willingly use their preferred pronouns because u don't know their past -- because u cannot tell they are trans. Why should it be any different with a public figure? No one is asking u to pretend. At the very least, u need only to be POLITE & use their preferred pronouns. U can still think of them whatever u want.
@@ValleyoftheRogue why a tragedy ??
She seems like your cool aunt that has fine China with cats on it. Like she's very "aunt that crochets you a hat while she drinks Vodka in a tea cup". And I love it.
"I did my own thing during a period when people weren't doing their own thing"
The host seems more sensitive here than most TV hosts are today!
Gary Collins was very popular in his time. Audiences loved him. He lost his career because of personal demons with alcohol.
William French Tragic.
@@frenchjr25 I didn't know that. That's so sad.
The generation that preceded the baby boomers were the real peak culturally, They were inquisitive, open to new ideas (most were the professors who inspired the 60's protests movements). They were seekers, but they were pulled down by the first wave of mass consumerism and hyper commercialization. And Reaganism came along and killed whatever cultural advances they made, while those who sought to advance ideas receded into crazy niche postmodernist movements that are currently canceling themselves out. Most media presenters today are high paid corporate teleprompter readers with little agency themselves.
@@thegardenoffragileegos1845 Most of that generation never set foot on a college campus. I assume you mean people who were mostly upper middle class.
What an interesting, well-spoken woman. She's always been a hero of mine, and watching this I remember why. She certainly seems to have enjoyed her life, though it's tragic that cancer took her at still quite a young age.
She states that she is overwhelmingly accepted in colleges and universities. This was in the early 80's, and those 20 year olds are now in their 50's and 60's. Why does it now seem like its the same age group that now does not accept transgenders?
KingOfKings Those college people today compose partly the liberal politicians, parents, neighbors, educators and corporate business people in liberal parts of the country where todays transgender people find refuge, understanding, work, family and even houses of prayer.
Remember however that not all education produces liberal understanding nor can everybody afford a college education, liberal or otherwise and that interestingly enough understanding sometimes comes from the most unlikely of places that neither had or was afforded a college education.
+KingOfKings That's an interesting point. I guess they become more conservative when they have kids.
Well after a little more thought, maybe its the 50/60 years olds that were NOT in college in the 80's. its all the uneducated conservatives that are intolerant.
Maybe because back then it wasn't being shoved /forced down peoples throats .Now if you don't say the right pronouns it could cost someones job.
People who didn't like her wouldn't pay to hear her lectures.
I can't get over how brave Christine was. To pursue a sex change operation when nobody else was doing it. It just wasn't an option. She was risking her health, she was putting herself out there as an experimental subject and she was doing it at a time when people were incredibly intolerant of sex roles. I always admire people that take control of their lives. She certainly did that.
Rayarena As she said a true transexual has no choice. She had to become Christine! So many transexuals today express the same need. Gender Dysphoria is truly an overwhelming need to match up what one perceives to what one sees.
Someone had to be the first. She was the one.
You all are a bunch of morons. This person is NOT trans, that was a HE and NEVER a SHE! Facts
Unstoppable And Unbreakable Christian Man you are like water and you are unstoppable.
@@invaliduser9397 she is trans
its crazy, people act like transgender people are a new thing....
Wait until transphobes learn about lili Elbe.
@@-uda2672 or Chevalier d’Eon
right wingers claiming that "transgender" is a new phenomenon is insane. we've always existed. the fear mongering against us today is heartbreaking.
She was so engaging and interesting to listen to - I wish I knew her in person.
Fabulous human being. She'll never be forgotten.
He'll
@@ras6283 she'll. You don't have chromosome sensors. She is a woman. Cope.
what a lovely woman , thank you
It's a man
Funny... A Black Man who was also oppressed, being prejudice against a Trans-WOMAN! 😂
Christine is a lovely woman! STFU.
@@jordancollett2 Nah I'd rather be woke.. #sleepsheep
She certainly is/was! It would have been nice to get to know such a pleasant lady! I agree that SHE is/was without a doubt a very brave pioneer on what had to be so difficult. I hope I get to meet her one day. That would be an honor.
TheBearcub410 - what a stupid man, you're welcome, moron.
She seems like the kind of person you'd sit down and have a chat with, and have a great time!
Simon Frisk I wish I could’ve, before her passing! 😇🙏😢
HE you dumb diluted morons. NOT a she
@@invaliduser9397 no one cares you stupid hateful and bigoted moron!
I think she seems like the kind of person you'd sit down to chat with, and *she'd* do all the talking, because her life is so much more interesting than yours, and you'd *still* have a lovely time!
An utterly charming, beautifully spoken, highly articulate personality. So polished, refined and genuine. Astonishingly LIKABLE.
I see she aged just like everyone else. I almost did not recognize her at first. Interesting that she did not resort to plastic surgery to reverse the signs of age. Apparently, she was, as she said, "content" to be who she was. Sadly that is true of far too few.
REMARKABLE!
+Hyramess Hiramess ...It may have been also that she was too poor to afford any cosmetic surgery because on her A&E Biography it was said she died practically penniless in a V.A. hospital.
+Lani Moore she died in her own home in San Clemente California with her sister and niece by her bedside with Furs and jewels I read her obituary you should look it up ignorant she had money
ldyreal I'm not sure why the A&E Biography got that wrong because that was the only account I heard.
@@ldyreal She had plenty of facial surgery in Denmark, but in this interview it was obvious her "eyes were done, but not a full face-lift".. She chain smoked and died from lung and bladder cancer..
To see Christine in 1953 we've uploaded a video form our archive onto our UA-cam channel called "World's First Hormone Therapy Transsexual - Ex GI Soldier Christine Jorgensen"
Wow. So eloquent and so wise. I am absolutely in awe. Christine Jorgensen is truly an icon. 💖💖💖
Beyond ahead of her time, just brilliant
He
omg ras ben yahweh stfu
@@steelethescene YOU stfu. It IS a HE!
RomaRules - NOT beyond ahead of HIS time, he was stupid like you are.
@@invaliduser9397 she*
God she was so brave. What an amazing woman. Thank you Christine.
So glad for You Tube's ability to show cousin Chris as she was - an accomplished, forward-thinking, warm, gracious, funny and enduring human being and - I don;t think she would mind my adding - a "great dame!" in every sense of the word. Long live your legacy, cousin Chris!
When she was younger, she reminded me of Bette Davis. Here she's older, and she reminds me of Bea Arthur.
Always a beautiful lady and a wonderful person. ❤❤
Im currently transitioning mtf and she inspires me thank you Christine.
Kerys
I saw her lecture at USC in 1974!
What a beautiful dignified lady Ms Jorgensen was. It was a different time and she reflected that era.
tvee Many women today can an do act like Ms. Jorgensen but they have to overcome the peer pressure exerted by today's disposable culture.
HE. Get your info straight, stupid. This person is a HE.
@@invaliduser9397 she. Language is by nature arbitrary. Gatekeeper language makes you rude, in no way correct.
@@AnthonyRizzo2 Many men are crass and undignified too, so I wonder why you see this as a women's problem. (Did you miss four years of the last president?) So damn close to saying that we don't know how to be "ladies." Culture has changed across the board.
Christine Jorgensen was a TRUE trailblazer.!! So very strong in herself when she had no role models. Reminds me of my hero James Baldwin.
I don’t know how she was viewed by the 1980s but Gary is remarkably accepting. Even today many people wouldn’t be as comfortable
Christine was a lovely person..I wish more trans people would be like Christine.She is such an intelligent lovely person...I think people would be more acceting of Trans people if they acted like Ms Jorgenson.
@@zorkwork3841I don't know.. I think more "cis" folks need to be more like Ms. Jorgensen.. intelligent and lovely..
Thanks for posting this. I grew up in this era and did not know about her. A real pioneer and an elegant, well spoken lady!
Crazy how the more recent comments are dripping with transphobia. We have fallen so far... If trans people were actually a danger... Wouldnt that be evident by now? Let people be who they want to be.
she's wonderful. such an inspiration, even over 30 years later
Well spoken, intelligent, eloquent, self deprecating, but confident and seems like a nice lady...She knows who she is and not afraid to own it, and live it...good on ya..
have her autobio and treasure it, courageous and wonderful woman & Gary on here is a very good talk show host, we need more like him, he really listens, is really interested
Damn I couldn't even imagine doing what she did in the 50s.
@@invaliduser9397 Yes, you are quite the moron
@@invaliduser9397 no you are quite the moron in this conversation.
Lol :D yes :D that's when Elvis swung his hips and long hair was forbidden
She was great. Poised, dignified, intelligent and so patient and well spoken. Also (obviously) one tough cookie. When i think of what I went through, years ago, in my own transition, I simply can't imagine what it must have been like for her. Too bad they have never produced a decent movie about her life.
Could still be done. Great idea
Cool interview like a fine conversation. The interviewer is way more polite, way less rude & not as vulgarizing than most of nowadays media puppets when approaching such a topic.
What an amazing and brave individual; especially during those harder times! I'm so please that I found out about this lady from reading my book called "Gender & Sexuality" by Jamie Garbacik
She was a beautiful person..RIP Christine.
What an amazing courageous woman, so likeable and sensible
Great interview x
Why is Christine not referenced by Laverne Cox and other high profile women. She is truly a pioneer and a cogent voice for the trans community.
S C lol, ok! Because she’s white (they’re not!) and because they forget about those who’ve pathed the way! 💯🙋♀️🤷♀️👍👌
@@bodereksmith1063 or maybe because Christine is not well know anymore, I just found out about her myself and came to check her out on UA-cam. I don’t know why you’re making it a race thing.
@@RosieOleanderDallinger lol, truth hurt? 🙀😮🤷♀️
@@bodereksmith1063 sure, except there’s no truth around here and it’s mostly just confusion felt but sure, whatever you wanna think.
@@bodereksmith1063 "Pathed" the way?
I had the pleasure of meeting cousin Chris in her later years, probably circa 1980s.I recall her voice and engaging, warm presence welcoming us, dressed in a colorful caftan. My Mom kept in contact with her over the years, visiting her in her Laguna Niguel home.The truth of "cousin Chris" was kept under wraps until I was a young adult for reasons I can only guess at. It's a shame that I never got to know her or share family life with her.
What an fuckin lady . I adore her .
Mahalo Tutu Jorgensen, your courage gave me courage! 'Aloha love you!
I cringed a little when she coughed at 9:25. Lung cancer was what took her. Sad to think that all she'd been through and it was probably the cigarettes that did her in. RIP Christine, you were beautiful. :(
“It’s who you are that’s important “
She was absolutely gorgeous ❤️
She's funny and smart and beautiful...what a boss!
I was watching an episode of The Jack Benny Show from the mid 1950's and Jack and guest Bob Hope make reference to Christine. There was a reference on I Love Lucy as well. And these are just the few that survive. Imagine how many other shows me reference or opening talked about it (of course most would have been extremely negative).
I remember an All in the Family episode that put Archie in the unexpected position to have to claim a trans woman was his wife until Edith showed up. Ended on a lovely note.
This is wonderful
Christine was my inspiration
I just heard about her today. What a trailblazer
she was so brave and lovely 💖
Amazing and here to expand all our consciousness
What a beautiful Lady☺
Her response about Jorges life had she remained Jorge was enlightening. She was quick to assert jorges personhood and her sameness of self with him. In other words she didn't deny being Jorge. She instead insisted that she is Christine and that Christine had to be made manifest. This is pretty much the same thing Bruce Jenner said to Dianne Sawyer that inside he was always a woman and that all of Bruce Jenners decisions were shaped by this woman.
such a classy women !!! her actions scram women u go hun
NICOLE KAYLA she can't go she's dead
@@gametimewithjamie That was figurative, honey
Ms. Jorgensen certainly was well-spoken.
Hy Gardner was a newspaper reporter who also had his own TV series.
Amazing woman!!!
Man
@@DEEHERR trans-WOMAN, Dorkass.
@@DEEHERR why are you watching??
@@teptime God decides our gender and there is NOTHING anyone can EVER do to change that.
@@DEEHERR God ostensibly decides our BIOLOGICAL SEX. That is not synonymous with "gender", which is a social construct typifying certain traits and behaviors with either biological sex. These designations are a comfortable fit most of the time...but not always. This is why we have tomboys, sissies, the lgbt, and other geder-nonconformists. Gender is highly nuanced, touching on matters of culture, association, and ipseity. It's often thought to be a word interchangable with "biological sex", to a degree such that the incorrect definition was added to most dictionaries in the 1940s, thus validating that misconception.
Wonderful woman a very courageous human being ❤️
A class act.
I'm considering the change.
I'm transgender myself, and i know you wrote this 2 whole years ago, but i just wanted to say that, whether you ended up going trough with it or not, i hope you're doing great. And being happily yourself, whoever that person may be.
She is just perfect ❤❤❤
It's sad how people treated trans folk with more respect back then than now.
Kathleen Turner could play her in her later years.
Him
Yes she can!!
That would be brilliant
@@moonsetful that would be stupid, like you are.
She's from a time when people were engaged, knew how to have a conversation, knew how to speak, and spoke in full, well thought out sentences.
Too bad she didn't live until today, she died relatively young in her early 60's.
Strangely, with as early as she transitioned (1952) she looks very feminine. I dont know if she had add'l work done later, but she really is a lovely woman.
I'm doing some research on her now, she underwent hormone therapy in Denmark according to Wikipedia. And it seems to have been basically the same process of medication + gender reassignment surgeries people may undergo nowadays surprisingly enough. It just was not widespread at all, and obviously more primitive.
I should really like to have known this woman. She’s really something.
She was even mentioned on I Love Lucy (not by name though).
In a 1980 interview with People magazine, Ball was asked, “How do you feel about gay rights?”
It’s perfectly all right with me. Some of the most gifted people I’ve ever met or read about are homosexual. How can you knock it?
i wish she was still alive!! American society (and worldwide) still has a long way to go, but I would think she would be happy with the progress :)! She would have love to meet Jazz and see her success. Christine led the way!!
Nah she's better off dead because if she was still alive to
Life would honestly suck for her
Imagine how much pain she would be in
Her body wouldn't be able to keep up with her age
@frenchjr25 I watch it all the time I guess I'll have to look for it now. do you remember what the episode was about.
Absolutely amazing lady ❤️ xxLush
People are scared of what they don’t know. She paved the way for the lgb(t)q. Beautiful woman. 🌈
Chris was on with Tom Snyder in the mid 70s and did a very interesting hour with him. No idea whether NBC saved any of Snyder's midnight shows, but I hope so, just to see some of the people he had on.
I remember that. They smoked continualy through the interview. She wore a sleeveless blouse and her bicep shook like an old lady's. She was articulate but also very guarded about her personal life.
I forgot who played her in that movie but have y’all seen the movie about her called The Christina Jorgensen Story???????…it came out in 1970….I hope y’all will reply to this
Funny she mentions bionic dolls early in the interview. I vividly remember my cousin having one of those when I was a kid. I was absolutely fascinated by it. My toy collection as a kid was total shit compared to my cousins.
Growing Up Skipper was fun. you flipped her arm and she got boobs.
SHE LOOK VERY GOOD AND SHE LOOK LIKE JOAN CRAWFORD IN HER LATER YEARS
Why were the 1980s more pro trans than now?
It's actually depressing. But then again, a lot of what showed up didn't actually reflect reality, which was probably just as bitter
Cuz it started to infiltrate child development
She was a beautiful, intelligent , inspiration to so many . She was always a lady, with a capital L!
I had been wondering what Christine Jorgensen’s life had been like after her transition.Don’t know if Christine is still living but hope she had/ has a good life.
She died of cancer at age 62 in 1989.
@@EYE_GOTCHA That's too young. That's very sad.
Wise, smart, intelligent, witty.
"Cinderella syndrome: M-F thinking Prince Charming is coming around the corner on a white horse."
Wow I wish she was from my time.
9:41 i had no idea that "lowkey" was a term that they used in the 80's, hmmm
Parabéns es uma belíssima e elegante dama
@tifo316 I really don't remember the name of the episode. I just remember the reference. It was non-judgemental, which I thought was pretty cool when I first heard it.
In the “Lucy Thinks Ricky Is Trying To Murder Her” episode (November 5, 1951), the fourth one aired, Lucy reads a mystery novel and decides her husband Ricky is trying to kill her. Reading a list of women's names he wrote down while on the phone, Lucy convinces herself he's planning to have affairs with them after she's killed. The final name on the list (which in reality is a list of trained dogs for Ricky's act) is “Theodore,” leading Lucy to give the camera a pop-eyed reaction of shock that clearly conveys her confusion as to why her husband is planning to have an affair with a man.
Did anyone else notice her accent? You here that all the time in older movies, but never now.
when she was younger it was more of an affectation but here as an elder i hear the new yawk a lot more :)
Funny thing is I think it’s called the transatlantic accent
it's so common to see trans people be young that i find it fascinating to see transsexuals age and be of old age. Somehow that barely comes up and it gives me the feeling there is a future.
SHE WAS VERY ELOQUENT.
Damn, this is right before she died.....
I like her. She was cool.
I wish she was still around to be my mentor as a trans woman! Just brilliant
did she say her friend's name was HIgh Gardner?
Despite everything, she had a certain amount of class to be accepted !
@tifo316
There was never such reference. Remember: Lucy and Desi couldn't even sleep in the same bed, because Americans weren't ready to learn that married couples actually might have sex... Lucy could not be referred to as "pregnant" during her on-air pregnancy; euphemisms abounded. As neat as the idea of a "Christine Jorgenson" type reference sounds; I could find no record of one, nor do I recall one. If someone can find an actual quote or clip, I will stand corrected.
Beautiful 😍