Yamcha and Power Creep in Dragonball FighterZ

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  • Опубліковано 28 лис 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 1,7 тис.

  • @MoldyBagel
    @MoldyBagel  3 роки тому +3392

    Couple people have pointed out UI's power very much exceeds 10,000,000, as SSJ was listed as 150,000,000 in Daizenshuu 7. I missed that. Kinda justs drives home my point even more though lol

    • @StarkMaximum
      @StarkMaximum 3 роки тому +347

      Power level: Maximum
      There, now it's always relevant (until he gets a new form)

    • @MetaGamingDojo
      @MetaGamingDojo 3 роки тому +50

      UI=♾

    • @whodatboi2567
      @whodatboi2567 3 роки тому +54

      @@StarkMaximum No, Broly Power Maximum.

    • @notredboi
      @notredboi 3 роки тому +131

      @@whodatboi2567 *maximumer

    • @camel521
      @camel521 3 роки тому +10

      bro you and shoyoumomo need to do a collab

  • @Spock1777
    @Spock1777 Рік тому +1976

    I love how this mirrors Yamcha's actual story in DBZ/S. He never got weaker, everyone around him just kept getting stronger until he became irrelevant by comparison.

    • @_____8676
      @_____8676 Рік тому +114

      Kinda sad tbh

    • @sarcasticsuperjerk18
      @sarcasticsuperjerk18 Рік тому +112

      It’s crazy that he’s never _actually_ gotten weaker or was ever confirmed to have gotten weaker. Characters like Krillin and _especially_ Gohan tend to just stop training and get so weak they’re an arc or two behind where they should be.

    • @phantomclippedu
      @phantomclippedu Рік тому

      Right

    • @BackOff_xd
      @BackOff_xd Рік тому +29

      ​@@sarcasticsuperjerk18hes just a human in-between gods.

    • @Skew0443
      @Skew0443 Рік тому

      LMAO

  • @koharuyuuki3162
    @koharuyuuki3162 3 роки тому +4007

    Yamcha went from a powerhouse to irrelevancy
    Just like in the anime and manga

    • @MoldyBagel
      @MoldyBagel  3 роки тому +718

      feelsbadman

    • @boop7784
      @boop7784 3 роки тому +85

      @@MoldyBagel feels bad indeed

    • @iamthehype3684
      @iamthehype3684 3 роки тому +18

      F

    • @Akodakun
      @Akodakun 3 роки тому +22

      @@failfort7822 Sounds about right

    • @joaquinperez9382
      @joaquinperez9382 3 роки тому +79

      @@failfort7822 sounds about all dragon ball alright

  • @omlett6482
    @omlett6482 3 роки тому +293

    "The Ice Climbers have our hypothetical gun" is the funniest thing i've seen in a while

  • @GiovanniD
    @GiovanniD 3 роки тому +2295

    This was quite informative actually. Overcentralization can soon ruin a game if not fixed as it could even drive the people away from the game. That's why it's important to have the right buffs and nerfs while being wary of the characters left in the dust.

    • @MoldyBagel
      @MoldyBagel  3 роки тому +295

      yeah im really happy with how this script turned out. it was the hardest one to write by far so i am glad to hear it made sense to you. Rewrote many times to try and make it as easy to understand as possible

    • @noboty4168
      @noboty4168 3 роки тому +34

      @@MoldyBagel as someone who only has a few hours in dbfz despite having the game from launch day, mission accomplished.

    • @MadMunky20k
      @MadMunky20k 3 роки тому +30

      Not a FGC example, but Mega Kangaskhan in the early Pokémon XY metagame was a textbook example of what overcentralization could do. The singles meta devolved into Kangaskhan and things able to answer it.

    • @Druid-T
      @Druid-T 3 роки тому +8

      @@MoldyBagel Honestly, this might end up being one of your best performing videos. You layout and explain the concepts so well that this video could be shared around in non-FGC communities, because they are incredibly easy to understand and apply to different games

    • @erluq9309
      @erluq9309 3 роки тому +9

      @@MadMunky20k Damn I remember that. Mega Kangaskhan was all you see in online matches. I was only using Kangaskhan to complete the battle tour.

  • @enzoerfe8429
    @enzoerfe8429 3 роки тому +1021

    Yo this went from a DBFZ analysis to a whole class about fighting game balance. Love it.

    • @MoldyBagel
      @MoldyBagel  3 роки тому +119

      Glad you like the expansion it makes me happy

    • @HCSR2
      @HCSR2 Рік тому +26

      It's a lesson on general balance. This is applicable to almost anything where choices and competitions are involved. Pieces on a board, cards, spells, any game with choices will inevitably end up like this if one option is blatantly superior to others. And the way he's explained would help anyone understand it in any scenario. Another great analysis video.

  • @nstar674
    @nstar674 3 роки тому +1314

    No matter how far he falls, I'll use Yamcha. He's just incredibly fun to play and it feels good winning with him.

    • @mohsinchughtai7727
      @mohsinchughtai7727 3 роки тому +73

      Same, can never drop Yamchad

    • @FileCorruption
      @FileCorruption 3 роки тому +67

      @@mohsinchughtai7727 the virgin UI Goku vs the Chad yamcha.

    • @webbowser8834
      @webbowser8834 2 роки тому +29

      Funny enough, SSJ Vegita has almost an identical story to Yamcha. He was a solid character with a busted assist, but the assist got nerfed and after a couple seasons being "solid" just wasn't good enough.

    • @Nero_9000
      @Nero_9000 2 місяці тому

      Yup, these writers of manga and these anime made me support the side characters WAY more. Like they never get a spotlight. And it can easily be fixed. Either introduce more than one villain so side characters can have proper OP battles with em or have one villain but first side characters who are weakest in the group fight the bad guy then as bad guy transforms and grows stronger have other side characters fight em and at the very end the absolute strongest fight em and still even in last moments show the side characters characters comeback ton assist the main heros.
      I only got into manga through jjk, and say what you will about jjk like it or hate it, I respect your opinions. But, the fight structure is good. Especially how they did the final fight with Sukuna, you got weakest characters jumping in as well and you got strong characters teaming up or pulling up at the end.
      On Second thought not really a good example but you get the point.
      Side characters are just as important as the main characters. Give them hype moments once in a while

    • @normal_handle47
      @normal_handle47 Місяць тому

      U get the excuse to say lol imaging getting beaten by yamcha

  • @ooferguy1517
    @ooferguy1517 3 роки тому +588

    This might actually be your best video ngl. The initial explanation of power creep leading into an explanation of how it shows in fighting games and how its specifically impacted Yamcha, and using that to tie into the larger discussion on buffs and nerfs and explain exactly why you can't just go hard in any one direction really flowed well in a way I can't describe. The editing was top notch as usual but the structure of the video was A1, to the point where the video felt less like it was about Yamcha and more like it used Yamcha to demonstrate a larger issue in fighting games and showed how he can be used as a direct example for why buffs, nerfs, and the keeping in mind of the fundamental mechanics of a game, matters. It really does facilitate a discussion on why avoiding overcentralization is so important and how it can really impact a game, its characters, and its community, and I think that's what you were going for so kudos to you man, it all came out super well honestly.

    • @MoldyBagel
      @MoldyBagel  3 роки тому +87

      Yeah I think it was the best script at least, it was really intimidating to write honestly as it's probably the most broad topic I've tackled. Glad the result shows, thank you!

    • @edwardnygma8533
      @edwardnygma8533 3 роки тому +6

      So what you're saying is, as this is my first video I've watched by this creator, that I should stop here?

    • @bernabo9115
      @bernabo9115 2 роки тому +7

      @@edwardnygma8533 no dude you gotta sub

    • @liljamesfgc
      @liljamesfgc 2 роки тому +4

      @@MoldyBagel nah honestly I think its at least one of the best ones you have edited as well. The intro especially shows this

  • @fancetheperson3394
    @fancetheperson3394 3 роки тому +2045

    It's honestly crazy to me that the DBFZ team felt the need to nerf Wolf Fang Flash AGAIN whilst also buffing characters like Z Broly and A21
    Yamcha really didn't deserve the nerfs at all

    • @MoldyBagel
      @MoldyBagel  3 роки тому +844

      oh we're gonna talk about the fucking z broly buffs one day i swear to god dont worry

    • @Ender41948
      @Ender41948 3 роки тому +62

      @@MoldyBagel OH BUDDY.

    • @zachopath
      @zachopath 3 роки тому +42

      @@MoldyBagel THEY'RE OUTTA HAND, MAN

    • @odd-eyesvon
      @odd-eyesvon 3 роки тому +19

      @@MoldyBagel Please do, because wtf even

    • @DestinyFY
      @DestinyFY 3 роки тому +10

      @@MoldyBagel LETS GO

  • @afri.2843
    @afri.2843 3 роки тому +682

    "hopefully one day he'll rise again"
    Patch notes: yamcha's assist now combos across stages

    • @noticeme6412
      @noticeme6412 3 роки тому +88

      Yamcha’s assists now reaches across multiple universes worth of stages

    • @joaquingamarra3248
      @joaquingamarra3248 2 роки тому +63

      Yamcha's assist now has auto-tracking

    • @vivelespatat2670
      @vivelespatat2670 2 роки тому +45

      Yamcha's assist now ignores block.

    • @weeb_dweeb
      @weeb_dweeb 2 роки тому +28

      Yamcha's assist now plays the game for you

    • @Borealis109
      @Borealis109 2 роки тому +28

      Yamcha's assist now activates a dramatic finish on every character

  • @MajinLotuss
    @MajinLotuss 3 роки тому +605

    It’s terrifying to see yamacha with no glow up

    •  3 роки тому +5

      What is glowup?

    • @OnEiNsAnEmOtHeRfUcKa
      @OnEiNsAnEmOtHeRfUcKa 3 роки тому +91

      @ You know when you have like a 10-year-later school reunion and that one kid in your class that skipped every class and did drugs behind a dumpster turns out to have become a successful businessman with a beautiful wife and kids and a nice house? That kind of shit.

    • @Idkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk50
      @Idkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk50 3 роки тому +25

      Sheesh
      Here I was thinking it was like UI’s fancy aura, or the lens flare eye meme or something.

    •  3 роки тому +37

      @@OnEiNsAnEmOtHeRfUcKa So... ‘‘getting your shit together’’?

    • @lessel3465
      @lessel3465 3 роки тому +18

      @ exactly

  • @sev1120
    @sev1120 2 роки тому +375

    Beating a top tier with Yamcha gives the same rush as winning a street fighter tournament with Dan

    • @rydislordran434
      @rydislordran434 2 роки тому +40

      I main Yamcha, am steadily pink and whomp on fushions. "With hard work even trash can achieve greatness."

    • @Guille-mz7xf
      @Guille-mz7xf Рік тому +34

      @@rydislordran434 Pink Yamchas are the real underdogs of this game

    • @liviekumori
      @liviekumori Рік тому +3

      A character is as good as the person playing it

    • @CommentPositionInformer
      @CommentPositionInformer Рік тому +6

      @@liviekumori When the character is well balanced? Yes.
      The issue is when the character is *better* than the person playing it.

    • @liviekumori
      @liviekumori Рік тому

      @@CommentPositionInformer That makes no sense.

  • @Neoxon619
    @Neoxon619 3 роки тому +423

    Fitting that a fighting game based on a Shonen property would also face Shonen power creep.

    • @MoldyBagel
      @MoldyBagel  3 роки тому +116

      at least not to the same level as actual shonen

    • @Neoxon619
      @Neoxon619 3 роки тому +48

      @@MoldyBagel True, it’s more in line with modern Shonen properties rather than the classics.

    • @Deathmare235
      @Deathmare235 3 роки тому +5

      @@MoldyBagel it’s good power creep though there’s still some bad

    • @nuredingeziqi679
      @nuredingeziqi679 2 роки тому +8

      @@MoldyBagel personally I'm just a bit confused on to why One Piece specifically was shown as an example for powercreep in Shonen in that explanation, but ignoring that for both Naruto and especially DB it's perfectly spot on

    • @ashikjaman1940
      @ashikjaman1940 2 роки тому +3

      @@nuredingeziqi679 I've never read One Piece but I think it was just used for it's sheer length

  • @JustDextin
    @JustDextin 3 роки тому +128

    I find it funny that of all the characters to get stomped by power creep, it just had to be Yamcha. Like, Krillin and Tien are still largely viable characters but Yamcha? Just as forgotten in DBFZ as in the anime.

    • @SamuSeen
      @SamuSeen 3 роки тому +38

      Yamcha got Yamcha'd both in anime and in game.

    • @Fall-oo6mt
      @Fall-oo6mt 7 місяців тому +3

      This is part of why the Moro arc is one of my favorites. Yamcha straight up leads a bunch of Galactic Patrollers and kills a bunch of the Moro henchmen, he's such a badass

  • @flaco3462
    @flaco3462 3 роки тому +497

    I remember this one Dragonball fanmanga about Yamcha that's still ongoing (i can't remember the name) where he trained hard enough and got new moves, like learning Piccolo's Hellzone Grenade and combining it with his Spirit Ball
    He also learned Kaioken and I think the ability to absorb the Spirit Bomb but I could definitely be misremembering that
    I wish he and other characters had cool new moves or something cuz I find that he and other characters especially in FighterZ don't have many moves compared to newer ones
    But anyhoo
    It saddens me to see him in this sorry state
    Again.
    I like to pair him up with Puar and I think that makes for a happy man and not a laughingstock

    • @MoldyBagel
      @MoldyBagel  3 роки тому +195

      that sounds dope actually as a yamcha fan

    • @logicaltips4107
      @logicaltips4107 3 роки тому +76

      @@MoldyBagel it's called dbz elsewhere. It has a website where you can read it

    • @noboty4168
      @noboty4168 3 роки тому +14

      @@logicaltips4107 give

    • @wakkaseta8351
      @wakkaseta8351 3 роки тому +111

      What's sad is that over time characters have lost moves in the show. Yamcha stopped using Wolf Fang Fist techniques from Z onwards for some reason while Tenshinhan only ever seems to use Tri-beam anymore in Super.

    • @logicaltips4107
      @logicaltips4107 3 роки тому +22

      @@noboty4168 Brooooo i keep sending you the link but i think they're getting deleted. Just google DBZ elsewhere and it should be there

  • @HiImAiden
    @HiImAiden 3 роки тому +81

    That transition of manga UI Goku to in-game UI Goku was SO good man

  • @AceLeader101
    @AceLeader101 3 роки тому +557

    I do actually believe though, even with the crazy power creep in the game I believe he's still viable. The game at the moment is pretty well balanced despite all the crazy shit they added.

    • @XernuhtZwei
      @XernuhtZwei 3 роки тому +98

      DBFZ's always been pretty good about that, even in the old days when Jiren, Videl and Goku Black were hanging out at the bottom. It's just that we've never seen as sudden or steep a fall as S4 Yamcha.

    • @BigJohnny214
      @BigJohnny214 3 роки тому +24

      Man, I didn't even knew he was so low in tier list, thought he was on mid tier. This is indicate to me how balance this game really is

    • @XernuhtZwei
      @XernuhtZwei 3 роки тому +34

      @@BigJohnny214 I think it's neat that two of the most solid Anchors from older seasons are now sitting at the bottom simply because other characters had to get buffed past them... and Ginyu because he's literally too much work for the same value as killers like UI, ZBroly, and 21.

    • @caldw615
      @caldw615 3 роки тому +32

      @@XernuhtZwei Ginyu is such an oddity because he theoretically has the most potential because he can outright steal a much stronger character while trading healthbars to shift the momentum a bit. Like you said he is a lot of work though.

    • @Cezuhhh
      @Cezuhhh 3 роки тому +4

      captain ginyu shouldnt be low teir tbh

  • @theotherjared9824
    @theotherjared9824 3 роки тому +142

    Something that was vaguely hinted at in the melee tangent is that players found ways to break the game that the developers either didn't realize was possible or didn't think was a big deal. Emergent gameplay options like this are often what truly define a game, as they are more often than not optimal strategies for those that want to win. This wasn't in a big deal pre-internet, but now developers are put in a tough place. They could patch everything out and make the game "perfect" in their eyes, but that would upset the players that like using exploits to gain a borderline unfair advantage. Once again, it all comes down to balance and how egregious things can get.

    • @MoldyBagel
      @MoldyBagel  3 роки тому +43

      Yeah I think developers have a really hard time deciding what is "tech" vs what is a bug. That's very much a case-by-case basis answer and hard to generalize as it depends on the exploit. All I'm saying is I'm glad Melee can't be patched lmao

    • @Parpeing
      @Parpeing 2 роки тому +8

      @@MoldyBagel saaaaame god can you imagine what nintendo would do

    • @BlusterTheBenevolent
      @BlusterTheBenevolent 2 роки тому +5

      Those asking for Melee HD are fools, they’d be setting themselves up for disappointment since not even the playerbase knows what to draw the line between a feature and a glitch.

    • @renatoramos8834
      @renatoramos8834 2 роки тому

      It depends on wheter the exploit benefits the game or not. For example, combos in fighting ganes were originaly an exploit but it's very beneficial to the genre, so it stayed. Wave dashing and other BS from melee ruins the game, so it was removed.

    • @renatoramos8834
      @renatoramos8834 2 роки тому +1

      @@BlusterTheBenevolent Everyone knows very well. It's just that melee fans live in denial. I do wish for a melee remaster that is actually balanced. No wavedashing and similar crap.

  • @zach8523
    @zach8523 3 роки тому +64

    As a yamcha main since day 1, he is still a fun character to play between all the changes.

    • @MoldyBagel
      @MoldyBagel  3 роки тому +12

      absolutely, it's just a shame he got outclassed

    • @gokufromfortnite867
      @gokufromfortnite867 3 роки тому

      @@MoldyBagel On the zamasu video I thought you were gonna talk about Yamcha at the end instead of beerus

  • @seb_masou3179
    @seb_masou3179 3 роки тому +128

    To me, there's one other reason why Yamcha is bad, and it relates with the universal 5M buff. His 5M has more range so it's easier to land, but if you combine that with his doodoo 2M and other ground combo options, landing a 5M means that you likely get a combo that does no damage and makes you use meter and/or assists to get a knockdown. You _could_ go for a 2M instead but it has so little range, 5M is more logical to go for, but also not, and it leaves Yamcha in a bad spot

    • @ebonie.harrington6192
      @ebonie.harrington6192 3 роки тому +2

      Don't 5m and 2m have the same scaling because I can't never tell the difference

    • @seb_masou3179
      @seb_masou3179 3 роки тому +2

      @@ebonie.harrington6192 I think so, but hitting a 5M with Yamcha from a distance greater than the 2M can reach forces you to Wolf Fang Fist, either EX to combo solo or use an assist

    • @absentcoder4552
      @absentcoder4552 3 роки тому +5

      I mean, I never really think about 2M except for when I want to pick up the opponent after a Flash. But the ability to better throw it out in neutral would be appreciated. Sure, it’s fast, but the fact that it’s his only low with the range of a 5L if even that much hurts. Sure, he’s centered around left-right mixups rather than high-low but having a halfway decent low would make him so much more terrifying. You’re kinda locked into his rekka the moment you use it and from there the opponent can really relax regarding the pressure Yamcha can impart. I don’t think that giving him a low ender would be balanced but he should definitely have a safe ender. I always figured Flash was supposed to be the safe ender, or at least 4S-Flash would be safe due to spacing. Now? He needs a lot of meter to be threatening, but he burns through it so fast that outlasting him is a non-issue if he burns through 1.4 bars every time he fails to open you up, which is every time if your opponent is able to react to everything you can throw at them.
      Edit: Yeah sure 4S is safe but Yamcha really wants to be in your face, and 4S just doesn’t allow that since all he has are the universal approach options. Maybe if Flash were immune to ki blasts or had a better disjoint.

    • @seb_masou3179
      @seb_masou3179 3 роки тому

      @@absentcoder4552 yea that's the thing, he relies on the same mix he has for 3 years, people likely are used to it by now, and if not, they will probably adapt in the middle of the match soon enough, making his mix weaker

  • @swagzagoon2596
    @swagzagoon2596 3 роки тому +158

    I still main him for one reason.
    Spiritball combos make me feel so GOOD.

    • @MoldyBagel
      @MoldyBagel  3 роки тому +57

      dude i remember when i first started playing this game and yamcha was my first main and i tried to do the spirit ball into level 3 for like an hour and fucking couldn't. I was like BRO FIGHTING GAMES ARE MESSED UP

    • @theyneverlearn3679
      @theyneverlearn3679 3 роки тому +6

      I've done the spirit ball combo like twice.
      I felt so powerful.

    • @InfraredGod
      @InfraredGod 3 роки тому +1

      @@MoldyBagel one of my friends just started FighterZ and decided to put Yamcha on his team (Along with Kid Buu and Goku Black cuz he a Kid Buu main). I said Yamcha wasn’t OP, but he was balanced….and then I saw this video. Oh well, only UI Goku ruins Saibamen and Earthling ranked matches anyway (cuz none of em use Zamasu or SS4 Gogeta)

    • @cashewlater5317
      @cashewlater5317 3 роки тому +2

      @@MoldyBagel me trying to combo it into spirit bomb and failing.

  • @SweaterPuppys
    @SweaterPuppys 3 роки тому +62

    I fought for Yamcha my whole life and I will keep fighting for his liberation until I die

  • @muno
    @muno 3 роки тому +47

    always so excited to see one of these in my sub feed!

  • @FreetStighter
    @FreetStighter 2 роки тому +9

    The way the information is shown along with the game footage is so pleasing. Great job!

  • @MrWhatcat
    @MrWhatcat 3 роки тому +28

    I teach writing for a living and this script is exceedingly tight and well put together. Excellent structure, excellent analysis. You really understand how to be concise and fun while making an argument. This is what good writing looks like, and it's what keeps me coming back to your vids!

    • @kingofcrap4414
      @kingofcrap4414 3 роки тому +2

      You teach writing for a living? Bro, I'm an aspiring writer and it would be great to sign up to your class in a year when I'm done with high school! If you're interested, could you perhaps provide me with more details?

  • @wnihaunter3943
    @wnihaunter3943 3 роки тому +45

    this reminds me of how parts of bardock's toolset was given out to later characters because it was so good

  • @FOB0124Official
    @FOB0124Official 3 роки тому +41

    Man I thought I was one of the few people to remember that Divekick actually existed, truly an interesting fighting game.

    • @absoul112
      @absoul112 3 роки тому +1

      It's so much fun.

    • @normalguycap
      @normalguycap 3 роки тому +1

      @@absoul112 sounds like you still play it. But how?

    • @athath2010
      @athath2010 3 роки тому +2

      I wrote up an entire comment asking why it wasn't mentioned, then resumed the video... seconds before Divekick footage was shown. :pensive:

    • @absoul112
      @absoul112 3 роки тому +1

      @@normalguycap it’s still on Steam. I wish people were still online.

    • @normalguycap
      @normalguycap 3 роки тому +1

      @@athath2010 I do that a lot and jump the gun.

  • @SailorLarkspur
    @SailorLarkspur 3 роки тому +1

    your insight and editing are so distinctively satisfying. i could watch/listen to you explain paint drying techniques and id still have a blast

  • @jaced8437
    @jaced8437 3 роки тому +5

    I dont even play this game but your info, edits, and humor are top notch. Pure entertainment. Bravo.

    • @MoldyBagel
      @MoldyBagel  3 роки тому +1

      thanks man

    • @noboty4168
      @noboty4168 3 роки тому +1

      Agreed. I quit this game years ago, but I always light up seeing a MB video anyways.

  • @kurizu1510
    @kurizu1510 3 роки тому +11

    0:22 Such a smooth transition.

  • @ASA-ux7cg
    @ASA-ux7cg 3 роки тому +106

    Solution: Give Yamaha Ultra Instinct, easy.

    • @MoldyBagel
      @MoldyBagel  3 роки тому +37

      truly terrifying

    • @Burdboy14
      @Burdboy14 3 роки тому +33

      You can’t give him something he already has

    • @EaTStu
      @EaTStu 3 роки тому +8

      @@MoldyBagel i think in another dragon ball game, Xenoverse 2, theres a side quest where yamcha kinda just gets insanely strong after eating fruit from the tree of might. its honestly kind of hard

  • @stormcutter59
    @stormcutter59 2 роки тому +1

    Fantastic video and if makes me weep for my Boi. Also the music choices are fantastic, it made me immediately go out and give a listen to One Step From Eden. What an interesting game I never even knew about.

  • @APerson-ws4cw
    @APerson-ws4cw 3 роки тому +128

    I think you're using a different definition of balance to these people. They see it as balance between characters, but you also see it as balance between mechanics. You're both right, and hopefully they give yamcha some cool tools like blue vegeta did

    • @kevinm1193
      @kevinm1193 3 роки тому +1

      Yamcha problem are not easy to fix since his 2M lack range, 5M is too slow, 5H is not good and don't allow normal combo, doesn't have a 2H in the air... Also, the scaling on his 236x series is so bad. To fix him, you would need to... basically copy/paste Gogeta SSB. Make his divekick give sliding knockdown and the ability to use his 236H after to keep combo going (which will skyrocket his damage input especially when punishing anti-air), give him a normal 5M (you can choose to delay it) and increase the distance (like SSJ Goku for instance), increase his 2M range... and give him back his 236M cross-up. Scaling on 236x should be the same as gogeta. Increase his beam speed... Well, basically, change everything... BUT give him back his cross-up :)

  • @cookiecat190
    @cookiecat190 2 роки тому +6

    The way you made the definition of power creep at the start showing how much a character can change over time is very clean and Imo good

  • @caldw615
    @caldw615 3 роки тому +16

    I still really like Yamcha, even with him being on the lower end of the power scale he still has 2 very solid assist options, can still open you up with EX meter to burn and can give teams easier TOD's using level 1> Level 3. He has a LOT of competition for that though. So many characters got new supers, similar assists or just benefitted way more from the mid/anchor position he often occupied.

  • @marsmonke4160
    @marsmonke4160 2 роки тому +93

    I love how the method of balancing this game is making everything so overpowered it's balanced via pure powerhouses

    • @Mister100Percent
      @Mister100Percent 2 роки тому +20

      As the saying goes “And if everyone is super, no one will be.”

    • @NeutralGuyDoubleZero
      @NeutralGuyDoubleZero Рік тому +8

      Unfortunately not all the characters seem to get any of that crazy OPness. That way of balancing has issues when it's not well... balanced. And mostly given to DLC characters

  • @YahhSirio
    @YahhSirio 3 роки тому +12

    I main Yamcha and have played him on my team since launch, I remember them nerfing WFF: Flash and I though well damn, maybe it won't be that bad, then characters like UI and Gogeta released and I thought again, "No he definitely didn't" Its crazy how many characters have become better than Yamcha, he used to be the character that could 1v3 or just a good assist, and everything that released after they nerfed him, just killed him, its sad, but I still think hes amazing and will continue to be so.

  • @monken364
    @monken364 3 роки тому +4

    I love this type of video. As someone who loves to watch fighting games but also sucks at them and rarely has the time to practice, seeing the in depth explanation of mechanics is so helpful for enjoying the content.

    • @MoldyBagel
      @MoldyBagel  3 роки тому +2

      I'm glad the explanations were satisfactory I was worried about that

  • @YABOIMIKEYBOI
    @YABOIMIKEYBOI 6 місяців тому +3

    Fun fact.Yamcha trained for the T.O.P cause he thought Goku was gonna pick him but unstead we got Frieza...the dude who tried to kill them not once,not twice,BUT THREE FRICKEN TIMES! I felt so bad when Yamcha showed up,ready to exchange phalanges (fancy word for hands) and Goku just said "Wtf are you talking about i was talking about reviving my arch enemy that tried to kill us 3 times."

  • @krimsonk-9478
    @krimsonk-9478 Рік тому +1

    I clicked on this video out of sheer boredom, i dont even play fighter Z.
    But its so informative, well edited and humorous that i think i am gonna sub to the channel for more.

  • @chris-cu3kl
    @chris-cu3kl 3 роки тому +3

    As someone who didn’t play DBFZ during it’s lifetime of balance updates, I really love your video in how it talks about the history of balance updates and discusses the issue of balancing games in the genre.

  • @RosalinaSama
    @RosalinaSama 3 роки тому +17

    neat video, i just wanted to point out though, brawl minus is actually a lot more reasonable and balanced than the melee mod shown, would strongly recommend anyone giving it a try its pretty legit as a competitive game

    • @ashikjaman1940
      @ashikjaman1940 2 роки тому

      It's been ages since I've seen any of it but isn't Meta Knight mostly the same?

    • @RosalinaSama
      @RosalinaSama 2 роки тому +3

      @@ashikjaman1940 hes a lot less able to camp in the air in minus, his up and down air are a bit slower but his main big buffs are that none of his b moves put him in special fall anymore and he can do each one of them once before landimg, so he has insane air combos
      he also has a suicide upthrow that blows you and the opponent up and kills at about 40 lol

    • @ashikjaman1940
      @ashikjaman1940 2 роки тому +1

      @@RosalinaSama this is what Sakurai really wanted, very glad the modders were able to understand his vision

  • @Somerandomjingleberry
    @Somerandomjingleberry 2 роки тому +12

    It’s kind of poetic how this game and actual Dragon Ball ended up treating Yamcha the same way

  • @Hugelag
    @Hugelag 3 роки тому +9

    This was a very nice and informative video. I don't know much about fighting games, but if Smash has taught me anything, it's that balance is important for a game's longevity. Brawl is not a good game competitively. Aside from the tripping, the character balance is all over the place and one character standing above all of them. In a situation I don't think I've ever seen before, the community came together to make their own mod for the game: Project M. Character balancing, stage changes and they even brought back some characters. The best part was that they kept updating the game and it was pretty popular in tournaments. It was great seeing people coming together to improve a game they loved. If a group of fans can come together and improve a game, it shows how important game balance is.
    On a side note, overcentralization answers a couple of questions I had about the competitive scene. Great video.
    Also, 4:50 caught me off guard. It was hilarious.

    • @MoldyBagel
      @MoldyBagel  3 роки тому +5

      It's a shame that Smash's biggest competitive downfall is that it's owned by a company that hates it. rip project m

  • @AliasTheJ-unko
    @AliasTheJ-unko 2 роки тому +14

    And finally, as of today, Yamcha has finally risen again

  • @NotTheWheel
    @NotTheWheel 2 роки тому +1

    I simply want to applaud the level of editing you put into this video. In terms of frame transition, it's a masterwork. Not to mention informative. Well done.

  • @axellion9951
    @axellion9951 2 роки тому +7

    Heyo, saw the reference to Brawl Minus and would like to point out that the Minus philosophy, while buffing every character in the game, still maintains balance through adding new options and making sure not to overbuff certain characters. Old Minus was very competitively unviable due to a lot of reasons, but mostly balance, nowadays Minus is trying to balance within reason while still making everyone as powerful as they can be!
    Sorry, just wanted to point that out as while it was a problem in the early days, we now realize the effect that overbuffing has and are trying to fix it!

  • @Eric6761
    @Eric6761 2 роки тому +7

    Crazy how even in videogames he still gets the power creep

  • @Thejigholeman
    @Thejigholeman 2 роки тому +3

    you were talking about the idea of just giving a character a hypothetical gun that oneshots people, but as it turns out, there is a real non hypothetical situation where a character has a non hypothetical gun that kills characters in 1 shot.
    Bushido Blade.
    the character katze had a gun, and it would one shot people. this was in a slow methodical sword fighting game, btw.

  • @doggo4078
    @doggo4078 3 роки тому +2

    Every time you put out bangers moldy I can’t believe how amazing your work and animation style is. Hats of to you again

  • @dark0q205
    @dark0q205 3 роки тому +11

    2:53
    The Vegeta voice killed me lol

  • @cherrydude.378
    @cherrydude.378 3 роки тому +6

    I love Yamcha's intro so much, he was such a cool character back in DB and a bit of DBZ.

  • @doubleoof7907
    @doubleoof7907 3 роки тому +12

    As Cooler said, “The weak die and the strong survive!”

  • @RichMondGesicht
    @RichMondGesicht 3 роки тому +2

    Dude, your videos are so unbelievably well made.

  • @TeeArCreep
    @TeeArCreep 3 роки тому +6

    Remember. Low tiers don't just exist because you are told "keep playing the boring meta brainwashed slave", but because they bring much more satisfaction to win with.

  • @majorghoul9017
    @majorghoul9017 2 роки тому +2

    Another example of overcentralization is found in Guilty Gear Missing Link, where infinites are plentiful and landing the franchise's iconic instant kill moves with you the entire game. So all that really matters is landing an infinite or instant kill to win

  • @lucystarlight8887
    @lucystarlight8887 3 роки тому +48

    It's really weird to think that Yamcha, of all characters, was top tier when the game came out

    • @kamatariedgar3603
      @kamatariedgar3603 3 роки тому +14

      When he was announced people in the comments was like "Would not be funny if he is top tier?" and surprise surprise he was, good times.

    • @TheWrathAbove
      @TheWrathAbove 3 роки тому +10

      Reminds me a lot of day 1 pichu in Smash Ultimate.

    • @Druid-T
      @Druid-T 3 роки тому +6

      It makes sense if you think about it though. The Wolf Fang style is based around fast-multi hitting attacks, so in a combo heavy game, even with damage scaling, that's a recipe for a health bar shredder

    • @rogaken
      @rogaken 3 роки тому +7

      He's been top tier in other games before. So it's not really bizarre.

    • @DXYS95
      @DXYS95 3 роки тому +5

      Uh... He was not top tier at all when the game came out?
      Some characters had access to so much broken stuff that Yamcha couldn't really compare. Like 16's 50/50 from auto combo and his 236L hard knockdown, or A Gohan's insane loop damage and hard knockdowns from 214H, or 21's infinite combo.
      Yamcha only became S tier after most of the bs was patched out of the game, so probably at the end of season 1

  • @BlackerSpaniel
    @BlackerSpaniel 3 роки тому +15

    Honestly I haven't played FighterZ in MONTHS but I really do hope in another patch (whenever that happens) they'd give Yamcha some of the buffer treatment.

  • @TUCell-ps5mi
    @TUCell-ps5mi 3 роки тому +16

    Never thought I’d see Piccolo & Saitama in the same frame.
    By the way, you gave amazing taste in music.

  • @TheVocoderGuy
    @TheVocoderGuy 3 роки тому +5

    8:18 you had the harp glissando match the key of the background music, I love you :)

  • @kits588
    @kits588 2 роки тому +6

    Ah yes patch 1.3.1 is where our boy rises up again

  • @zeuvia_
    @zeuvia_ 2 місяці тому +2

    latest patch has just made this video even more relevant again ngl

  • @pinball-wizard
    @pinball-wizard 3 роки тому +8

    Instead of being bad, Blue Vegeta’s new joke is he’s dealing trades with the likes of Paul McCartney and Jaco Pastorius

  • @legojay14
    @legojay14 Рік тому +1

    I really hope you do general fighting game explanations that aren't just fighterz. The main person I see for fighting game content is woolievs, and honestly, you explain this in a way that my brain understands

  • @Megapples
    @Megapples 3 роки тому +3

    "If everything is broken, it's balanced"
    Sonic Team : "Perfectly balanced"

    • @MoldyBagel
      @MoldyBagel  3 роки тому +3

      Sonic 06 most balanced game

  • @VisaCardholder
    @VisaCardholder 3 роки тому +1

    Thank you for bringing up Melee. Can't wait for your next Ganondorf combo video.

    • @MoldyBagel
      @MoldyBagel  3 роки тому +1

      omg the ganon video 😭

  • @HunterForHire422
    @HunterForHire422 3 роки тому +80

    Fighterz is honestly one of the most balanced modern FGs i can think of. Even the "worst" in this game are still good. Especially compared to a game like smash ultimate the power difference, while still there, is one that is much less drastic and still fixable.

    • @MoldyBagel
      @MoldyBagel  3 роки тому +64

      Or melee, where a third of the characters are actually completely unplayable

    • @bguy6778
      @bguy6778 3 роки тому +17

      Smash Ultimate Is actually considered very balanced itself.

    • @Super_Suchi
      @Super_Suchi 3 роки тому +18

      @@MoldyBagel Even Melee I’d argue is pretty balanced compared to other smash games. At least Melee doesn’t have a single character that completely dominated the meta like Brawl with meta knight or Smash 4 with Bayonetta. Sure Fox is a popular pick, but he still has his weaknesses like his fast falling speed, linear and predictable recovery making it easy for characters like Marth to edgeguard, and the lack of disjointed hitboxes besides Shine.

    • @flamingrubys11
      @flamingrubys11 3 роки тому

      hate to tell you but fz is far from balanced as long as juggling exists

    • @bguy6778
      @bguy6778 3 роки тому +16

      @@flamingrubys11 juggling -=- imbalance

  • @StarkMaximum
    @StarkMaximum 3 роки тому +1

    Oh also I think it's super interesting how this video goes from shonen power levels in manga to power levels in games to Yamcha specifically to overall discussion on game balance in fighting games. This video covers a LOT of ground and it keeps it super interesting, it doesn't really linger too hard on any one topic. Very interesting take on this video.

  • @WohMi
    @WohMi 3 роки тому +5

    5:09 i really thought Divekick was about to come up here I got so hyped lmao

  • @shingshing8816
    @shingshing8816 3 роки тому

    your edits continue to make me chuckle like 2:53, keep up the fantastic edits and informative videos

  • @sir_wffles
    @sir_wffles Рік тому +4

    At this point I’m actually not sure if this video aged well or not…

  • @cheeseisgood17
    @cheeseisgood17 3 роки тому

    So interesting that you brought up Melee to compare. The entire vid I could not stop thinking about how this and Melee are so technical and then Melee appeared on screen, kinda mind blowing. Amazing vid!

  • @Skel_fgc
    @Skel_fgc 2 роки тому +4

    I’d like to add that while Yamcha WAS buffed in what I like to call “the mahvel patch” where everyone was improved to hilarious degrees, he was ALSO NERFED! They felt the need to FURTHER nerf the whiff recovery of wolf fang flash! They gave most characters full screen meterless lariats like Frieza’s 5M, but oooh nooo god forbid Yamcha have a good metered lariat.

  • @DarkThomy
    @DarkThomy 2 роки тому

    (side note, THANKS ! You made me discover One Step from Eden ost and it's AMAZING omg)
    Great, Great explanation of general balance in fighting games ! Very interesting !

  • @noboty4168
    @noboty4168 3 роки тому +7

    Never change your style. My face hurts from laughing so hard. As a Yamaha day one enjoyer, this also hurts me to my soul.

  • @samundef3500
    @samundef3500 3 роки тому

    Really great video! Haven’t played dbfz in awhile but I’m still happy whenever I get to see you in my recommended

  • @krullachief669
    @krullachief669 3 роки тому +4

    6:15 Give the gun to everyone, I want to see Melee get into some really wacky shit with its platform fighter footsies.

  • @cloudstrifevii554
    @cloudstrifevii554 3 роки тому +1

    I love how you used the "One Step From Eden" sound track, very nice

  • @helloimvon
    @helloimvon 3 роки тому +6

    this game made me love yamcha as a character. Will continue to play him until the game's servers shut down

  • @Scoobydoo-ju9ch
    @Scoobydoo-ju9ch 2 роки тому +1

    The sad thing is that people normally don't understand that nerfs can be good and sometimes if your favourite character or build in a game is so broken you one shot everything it can ruin the core aspect of the game, but on the other hand you have developers who nerf on reflex and it can usually be super harsh instead of looking at why the character/build is so powerful

  • @dash3462
    @dash3462 2 роки тому +8

    “Do you take away the gun or give it to everyone”
    Yeah I think the recent patch shows that bamco or arcsys thought giving it to everyone was the better option

    • @GlitchanBlack
      @GlitchanBlack 2 роки тому

      Bandai Namco made the game - Arc System Works just helped with the development.

    • @Just.Kidding
      @Just.Kidding Рік тому

      @@GlitchanBlack the development _is_ making the game

  • @iMrPaperBagGuy
    @iMrPaperBagGuy 2 роки тому

    Good educational video with historical examples to explain both sides of the nerf vs buff argument, and the One Step From Eden soundtrack? My man 👌

  • @bageltoo
    @bageltoo 3 роки тому +30

    My main team is AGohan, 16, Yamcha. I call it “Fallen from Grace”

    • @fissilewhistle
      @fissilewhistle 3 роки тому +5

      But Gohan is good now. You should replace him with Black, or maybe Super Vegeta.

    • @bageltoo
      @bageltoo 3 роки тому

      @@fissilewhistle Gohan in game? Totally.
      In Canon? Well…

    • @fissilewhistle
      @fissilewhistle 3 роки тому +3

      @@bageltoo I mean, even in canon Gohan fought with and against godly beings and did decently well. He’s stronger than the likes of Piccolo and Tien, despite not working nearly as hard as them.

    • @GamerTowerDX
      @GamerTowerDX 2 роки тому +1

      God i forgot AGohan was in this game.

  • @100organicfreshmemes5
    @100organicfreshmemes5 3 роки тому +2

    This is probably the best video I've seen that refutes the whole idea of "buff everything". To go to Smash Ultimate, the solution to some OP characters like Pikachu shouldn't be to buff everyone so their recovery is both basically impossible to edgeguard and a powerful combo tool, it should be to nerf Pikachu's so that edge guarding is actually a viable option instead of just ledge camping like we see 95% of competitive players do already. (Pikachu is also far from the only character who could use a nerf to recovery)

    • @MoldyBagel
      @MoldyBagel  3 роки тому +1

      ExAAAAActly

    • @lonkster
      @lonkster 3 роки тому

      This vid is a goated for that ngl

  • @300IQPrower
    @300IQPrower 3 роки тому +3

    Fighting games seem to “balance” their games the way mobas and gachas do (although the latter shouldn’t even be considered games.) Early in their life there’s usually one of two clear concepts on display: making every character jack of all trades enough to work in any situation with the differences catering to a variety of personal preferences, or making every character specialized with clear strengths and weaknesses and the differences between character being entirely different playstyles.
    Then the power creep comes in.
    And inevitably it reaches this stage, where new characters have the strengths of multiple base characters with none of their weaknesses, usually more or less specialized depending on what the meta dictates is stronger, rendering older characters downright obsolete and incentivizing purchasing the newer flashier characters.
    Even Street fighter, the series that practically codified fighting game archetypes and the idea of clear and intuitive strengths and weaknesses to said archetypes, is doing this as we speak with that Luke twat very clearly having the strengths of both rushdowns and zoners.
    Part of it is certainly natural evolution of universal mechanics but there’s also a clear intent here to make new characters appealing even if it means undermining old ones.

    • @MoldyBagel
      @MoldyBagel  3 роки тому +3

      Yeah I think the biggest examples of this were UI and GT Goku on their launches. Especially GT. They removed 4 way level 3 mix and then ADDED a new character that had it even better, undermining their own balance intent

  • @RemiAutor
    @RemiAutor 3 роки тому

    This video was wonderful. I watched every minute of it and liked it the entire time. Way to go, MoldyBagel. You made a really good video. Thank you. I really enjoyed watching that. Take care.

  • @absentcoder4552
    @absentcoder4552 3 роки тому +4

    I mean, speaking as a Day 1 Yamcha main he can still deal substantial amounts of damage and do some pretty wack stuff if you’re really good at mixing up with Flash.
    The problem is that everything else is just… there. Being able to combo H into tatsu midsceen, and H into S into tatsu in the corner just ain’t gonna do it anymore. What I’m thinking is the ability to buffer the startup frames of his 5H into specials so that when he stops backflipping he can go straight into beam, Flash or perhaps he can just hold the button and land back in a neutral state.
    Like a command backdash with no invuln but more range.

    • @MoldyBagel
      @MoldyBagel  3 роки тому +3

      That's a really cool change. Yeah I want Yamchas gameplan to be around 5H pressure reset mix. I think that would make him more distinguished among anchors if he got really efficient resets

  • @azzo3449
    @azzo3449 3 роки тому

    Therapeutic whenever I watch your videos, it's just got amazing editing and with actual legit contents in it.

  • @Shadowrayquaza27
    @Shadowrayquaza27 3 роки тому +22

    I've gotten used to seeing people making fun of Yamcha, and that makes me sad. Glad to see someone else who thinks he deserves more respect

  • @mrfroboto1
    @mrfroboto1 2 роки тому +1

    Dang, I don't even play dbfz but these videos are so entertaining and informative I might just have to subscribe.

  • @thatonenerd9252
    @thatonenerd9252 3 роки тому +5

    Will you do more Guilty Gear character videos bcuz I really enjoyed the Sol Badguy one. I love all the videos I've seen on your channel

    • @MoldyBagel
      @MoldyBagel  3 роки тому +3

      unfortunately strive simply isn't panning out to be super popular and my motivation to play it kind of dried up fast. I haven't been playing fighting games at all outside of making videos for like the last 6 months actually.

    • @spreadwuvokay
      @spreadwuvokay 3 роки тому

      @@MoldyBagel That's sorta sad

    • @thatonenerd9252
      @thatonenerd9252 3 роки тому

      @@MoldyBagel are you doing videos on non-fighting games or are you going to stick with DBFZ

  • @danielsepulveda7303
    @danielsepulveda7303 3 роки тому

    I just picked up this game like a week ago and decided to try and main yamcha because he’s one of my favorite characters in DBZ so I had no idea this was going on but I love the editing and just information in this vid keep it up! 🔥

  • @PlagueOfWasps
    @PlagueOfWasps 3 роки тому +3

    *YESSSSS*
    You were talking about one shot mechanics and I immediately thought of Divekick.
    The Zaibatsu is gone, but they gave us enough.
    Zubaz-gang for life.

  • @strive210
    @strive210 3 роки тому

    I just found your channel and you have inspired me to get DBZ FighterZ. Your videos are easy to understand and helpful! Keep making good content king 👑

  • @mrunknown8335
    @mrunknown8335 3 роки тому +4

    I really love the short history lesson you did on melee, i would love more of it.

  • @Silentstorm2860
    @Silentstorm2860 3 роки тому +1

    Shout-outs for using the One Step From Eden OST. I love the Artic theme :)

  • @Tr0lliPop
    @Tr0lliPop 2 роки тому +5

    1:43 about "THIS WEIRD SHIT": This combined with ki charge gaining reflect property is probably the devs' way of making ki charge a viable way to deal with zoning. The opponent is spamming projectiles? Just charge ki and then suddenly GRAB THEM ACROSS THE SCREEN LMAO

  • @normalguycap
    @normalguycap 3 роки тому +1

    This was really well made, really informative. I haven't played since year 1 and I used to play Yamaha too because I like to use unpopular characters so this was also fascinating.

  • @tannokie40
    @tannokie40 3 роки тому +6

    so sad that yamcha went from alpha to beta thanks to every other goku ingame

  • @Mattmann97
    @Mattmann97 3 роки тому

    Man I haven't touched this game in years but your editing is so entertaining I end up watching a lot of these videos