1- Roma Invicta 2- i disagree with this video actually… If we see talking about “gays” it is because they didn’t see it as a “normal thing”. Or at least… it was, but it wasn’t seen as a good thing, for example Heliogabalus was a gay guy who was hated even by his pretorians, in fact they killed him. Caesar… they made jokes about him even tho he was not gay.
I'm not sure if it matters, but Rome had a law making it illegal for two male citizens to lay with each other. It was punishable by death for the top, since they saw it like he removed the citizenry from the bottom
@@niclasjohansson5992 This law was enacted as part of the Justinian Code in the 6th century more than 200 years after the Christianisation of the empire. It didn't exist in the classical period
What virgins study: "Those ancient sources totally got the battle wrong. It wasn't five million Gauls vs 200 Romans! It was more like 20,000 on both sides" What chads study:
Yup but as with any rule there were probably Knights that did that too just secretly. Just because something is banned does not mean people stopped doing it just look at Junkies
@@corneliuscapitalinus845 hey bro I'm not a pervert bro. Rich people in ancient Rome used to have drunk bisexual orgies bro muh warrior culture, it's not degenerate i swear just trust me bro
Pederasty wasn't innitially sexual. The term platonic love comes from plato saying that a man should love a boy that he's mentoring but if they have sex it's gross. It became sexual only after alexander conquered the east and the greeks became rich and decadent. At that point the romans came into contact with them and they disapproved of that, which is why we have the impression that pederasty was sexual, where as in the greek golden age it wasn't.
and lets not forget that in the greco roman world, relationship between tennager and adults was the norm even in straight relationships, roman girls married at 15 years of age
_That's another reason why those effete Roman Italian senators despised me, because I actually loved my wife. My Julia was a true goddess in personality, brains and body. I really enjoyed rubbing it in their obnoxious faces._ _Although there are times where I do wish she had given me daughters instead of sons..._
Fun fact: Severus was married to an Arab woman, Julia is what romans call anyone whose names they cant pronounce. Domna, is an archaic Arabic word meaning "black",[8][9] referencing the nature of Elagabal which took the form of a black stone.
Hadrian was gay on an entirely different level than his contemporaries, he founded an entire cult in honor of his boyfriend. Also a massive fan of Greek culture, and arguably one of the best emperors Rome had ever had.
Not gay, bisexual. The Romans looked down on homosexuals. Bisexuality was fine, but being exclusively homosexual was frowned upon as everyone was expected to have a wife and children.
@@yoloswaggins7121 I am not talking about Rome in general, but Hadrian in particular (and in a somewhat tongue in cheek way). It seems to me that you misunderstood what I said...
@@Mandark020 I'm pretrt sure that Hadrian was bisexual and not gay. Although I see your point. He did seem very devoted to his boyfriend and made a cult in his honour, but I think this is more because of his tragic death.
@@yoloswaggins7121 he had a wife but to my knowledge their relationship was purely about procreation and he had no love or affection for her, he has no known female lovers which was extremely rare for most emperors while his relationship with his greekoid bubble butt bottom was extremely affectionate physically and emotionally
Best I can say is: 1.Rome was interconnected, after all every road leads to Rome and travel was very accesibile 2. Because of the previous point bishops and the like could, after Constantine made Christianity legal travel and spread their teachings across the empire easily 3. The romans never did enforce their religious views on the population. Sure they wanted you to be pegan but they didn't meddle in people's affairs. Often times they just left the people to worship whatever local gods they had whereas christians saw themselves as having a duty to convert others to their religion much like most other Abrahamic religions 4. Pegans also had a multitude of gods. The closest they've gotten to having a central figure was Sol Invictus (correct me if I'm wrong) and they didn't try to enforce that one god and unify the population. 5. Christianity was a religion which offered the prospect of an easy afterlife which was peaceful. This obviously appealed to the masses which broke their back in late antiquity and had a pretty miserable life, so you can imagine why they'd choose to embrace this religion. Add to that the fact that christians liked to share amongst them food and the like (as someone from an Orthodox Christian county we have a lot of holidays on which food is given alongside a bunch of other stuff, mainly in small communities but you get the point). 6. In the Roman world, converting one person often meant converting the whole household-if the head of the household was converted, he decided the religion of his wife, children and slaves. 7. Stories of miracles and healings purportedly showed that the one Christian God was more powerful than the many Roman gods, or at least that's what the christians were trying to make people at the time believe.
@rimacutem of Alsvartrsmiðr- Crisis of the 3rd Century had already destabilized and nearly torn the empire apart, and the Byzantines had no problems in administrating their empire despite it being Christian
I wonder how widespread this was. Was this only popular among the Roman patrician and equestrian classes, or the vast majority of plebs too? We might be a little biased since contemporary historians were almost always of the upper, literate classes.
@@Ayushgraphy while it did happen, it wasn’t very common, as it depended from muslim state to Muslim state, and Wahhabism wasn’t an influential force until the late 20th century so it’s got nothing to do with it. Homosexuality was denounced by Arab society ever since the early caliphates, but yes it did happen, as it still does.
8:01 you said Eastern Roman emperor Julian but I think you meant Justin. Julian was the last pagan emperor and despised Christianity, he probably did not hate homosexuality.
Most men are vers. Read Same-Sex Unions in Pre-Modern Europe by Yale Historian John Boswell. Greece was about a billion times gayer than this storyteller knows about.
I do want to point out that the Spartans were the least gay. They literally mocked the Athenians as being boy lovers and unable to find or keep women, as their fathers had already taken them all. So, uh, Lacadaemons were the least gay I suppose?
That’s not to seat the Spartans weren’t gay though. They had to spend years together with only men, so they did sleep with each other during that time. Once they reached the age they were given wives and were expected to have children, they usually stopped. Although some men (probably the actually gay ones) became very depressed once they reached this stage and had to have their wives shave bald and dress like men to “finish”.
Kind of sounds like you're taking 300 too seriously lol. Athens threw the same accusations at Sparta. Bi relations did occur quite a bit in Sparta. Mainly in the child soldier training they had, with captured slaves and iirc with soldiers themselves, although the latter was more discouraged than it was in Thebes or Athens
@@HW-sw5gb Though the foremost source we have on the Spartans said that, contrary to Athenian assumption, they regarded the idea of a physical relationship between mentor and apprentice (they even used the non-sexual terms "Speaker" and "Listener" for them respectively) with the same abhorrence as incest.
Except that the storyteller here got all his info from other UA-cam videos and he's wrong. Read Same-Sex Unions in Pre-Modern Europe by Yale Historian John Boswell. Greece was about a billion times gayer than this storyteller knows about.
Seriously--go to a real historian. This guy got all his info from other UA-cam videos and he's wrong. Read Same-Sex Unions in Pre-Modern Europe by Yale Historian John Boswell. Greece was about a billion times gayer than this storyteller knows about.
There's a great description by Livy about the monogamy and strict heterosexuality of German tribes being remarkable and strange. Also guess we know why so many famous Roman women were completely insane.
5:46 Wait a minute, who was Augustus's male "lover"? I ask that because I'm quite sure that we have no definitive mention of him having such relationships. Of course there were claims that he had such relationship with Caesar himself, but that is today by historians agreed to be most likely a propaganda made by Mark Anthony to discredit Augustus. Not to mention that he was quite known for his very deep love for his wife Livia. So again, who was his lover?
@@arttuke4757 You mean by Aulus Hirtius? Again that's most likely propaganda of Mark Anthony and his brother Lucius. Such slander for being a "gay receiver" in Rome was quite common actually. But as I said, barring such propaganda examples, we don't have any proof of a genuine love relationship with any male. Not to mention that Augustus was quite known in his time to be in heavy favour of a man-woman marriages and even decreed many of his natalist measures.
@@Qwerty-yp3jq He was most likely neither Bi nor gay. Again as I said, this story is almost completely propaganda. Although Caesar himself would be earlier in his life be dragged into similar smear campaign, where his enemies claimed that he had sexual relationship with a king of Bythinia while he was staying at his court. Wether this story is true is hard to tell. I personally don't believe it, because if Caesar did such a thing it would severely diminish his image, something that Caesar would surely not allow.
If anyone thinks Augustus had a male lover, I'd assume they'd claim Agrippa. He was a close personal friend and general of Augustus and was extremely loyal. I still think this is more modern projection onto the past. Dudes can't just be bros anymore.
5:35 "It'd even be weird if you didn't engage in such behavior." In ancient Rome: Person 1: "You really gotta try some of that bussy bro it's awesome!" Person 2: "Um, yeah, I'm not into that..." Person 1: "What are you, gay!?"
A wife, in the eyes of Romans, was primarily to be the mother of children and the giver of a dowry from her father. It was a socio-economic bond. The average married Roman man would have either a slave girl/boy or go to the lupanarium for sex.
@@Moribus_Artibus so??? Doesn't mean it was normal behavior outside of elite circles. Modern analogue: is housewives of x real life besides for the rich?
It should also be noted that just because homosexuality obviously and of course existed throughout the Greco-Roman world, it wasn't always vastly approved neither encouraged or sometimes it was a matter of how "much gay" could someone be allowed to be or show. Despite the fact that people even scientists can generalise entire societies it wasn't always the case. A fairly good example(I believe at least) is if I remember right was that at a symposium that a guy who won a poetry contest held in Classical Athens in his house,was mocked and laughed at by many guests (both men and women) for being too gay and "girly" like shaving off his ankles,speaking with a higher pitched voice,putting a lot of makeup,never had sex with a woman etc... (he was indeed known for being with a lot of men).I'm not saying that homosexuality didn't exist during those times and since forever or wasn't real ( it is and was real and no-one should deny that) but we should also never hold a view that it was widely accepted by everyone and anyone during those times.
the greek word for "lover" could also be translated as "friend" or "companion" depending on the context, so a biased historian could easily change the meaning of the scriptures completely to make it look like two male friends were lovers(Achilles and Patroclus are the best example for that).
Ancient Greeks and Romans had rather negative opinions on makeup and beautification, since they viewed it as degrading to make oneself more sexy for others. This did not necessarily translate to dislike of homosexuality, for example actors and slave-traders were both despised by "polite society" but their services were still used and appreciated
So basically it's ok to be gay but not feminine lol it's still kinda same today if you are gay, you are more likely to accepted if you are masculine than feminine
You have a contemporary patriarchal take on homosexuality. Homosexuality and flamboyancy are two different things. Back then was more like a cult of masculinity with the other men and each other , and the encouragement of athletism strenght youth , cult of body etc. A kind of approval among your male peers , exploring each other body , and also as strong connection and support when youre at war far from home and your wife. Sadly in ancient greece , women were even locked in the home in some cases , you couldnt have the same type of sex with people who easily can get pregnant. That also a reason why they were like " preserved " 😥 . Like in some parts of mediterranean and middle eastern tradition , the young boys had the permition to be slightly femenine and they had the role of submissive bottoms. This worked as some kind of pervy initiation on the adult phase of life , and they were the slaves. A grown up bearded man with homosexual tendencies couldnt typically be a bottom . At least if you were the older one in the sex activities. We recently come from a culture were this gay male or bicurious impulses have been repressed and men of every kind had to live their tastes in private. And without clear ancient reference we tend to associate people who like men with the group that traditionally had preserve femeninity : women.
Having sex with your own gender and being girly has nothing in common. Being girly while being born male is more of a gender expression discussion , in my opinion
"what about the wives" was a missed opportunity to talk about the cult of baucus, which was a cult active in both Greek and Roman periods, dedicated to wives getting drunk and sleeping with slave men. And eventually became a spanking cult with a lot of lesbian elements.
It wasn't dedicated to wives it was just men and women meeting up to get drunk and do illegal sex acts while listening to loud music, it wasn't a lesbian sex cult
Nothing funny about it. He got all his info from other UA-cam videos and he's wrong. Read Same-Sex Unions in Pre-Modern Europe by Yale Historian John Boswell. Greece was about a billion times gayer than this storyteller knows about, mostly with dudes the same age. To lie about it and make it seem gross when it was awesome is the opposite of hilarious.
i think people really underestimate how much a culture can change over the course of a few generations their was a stage in Athens where homosexuals were barred from holding office I'm quite sure this was the equivalent to the modern wests view of homosexuals a mere 100yrs ago so for me the question isn't whether the greeks/romans are gay/er it's a question of when they were gay and when they were not almost all society's seem to have a homosexual period and boxing a culture into single stereotype seems nonacademic
Also forgetting the amount of time these civilizations existed "the greeks" consisted of a multitude of different cultures with widely different views. Reguardless from a wide perspective sex between males was extremely common, with a variety of stipulations and outliers
Civilizations at their peak always honor man to man love. Ancient Greece, Samurai Japan, Medieval Islam. Get academic--this guy is obviously not--he got all his info from other UA-cam videos and he's wrong. Read Same-Sex Unions in Pre-Modern Europe by Yale Historian John Boswell. Greece was about a billion times gayer than this storyteller knows about.
@@JesusChristisLord.3 It's true, i'd love to see an HBO series about a cabal of Roman femcels who assassinate all the most bootiful booty bois in Rome to get their husbands back.
I used to think Nietzsche was exaggerating in saying Christianity was the slaves' revenge against the Roman government, but I'm kinda starting to see his point. Christianity basically condemned everything that the Roman elite had - money, success, pride, power, fun, all kinds of sex, everything that's nice about life in general. And it makes sense when you think about it, cause I've seen individual people like that in my own life. They don't have what you have, so they'd rather you didn't have it either, out of envy. And they criticize you for having sex and whatnot, or subtly scorn or disregard your success as something that's beneath them.
I that case the Romans of the Republican era were "envious" of Greeks (they weren't) since they had much of the same views on money, sex and leisure as the Christians you're speaking of.
That's weird, because Rome with Christianity lasted another 1,000 years after the fall of the Western Roman Empire. It lasted the same with as it did without Christianity.
@@decimusausoniusmagnus5719 Um, no, they didn't. How did you get the idea that Republican Rome had values resembling Christianity? And yes - you can argue that indeed the Romans were envious of the Greeks, in terms of the Greeks' achievements in philosophy and art etc, which is why they adopted and imitated their achievements, and which is also why they hurriedly labelled them as 'slaves', so weak and pathetic that they got conquered by the rough Romans. That reeks of envy to me.
@@KraNisOG That's not the point, Rome may have lasted as a political entity, but it did so, because it adopted the increasingly predominant Christian morality and worldview, instead of rejecting it and collapsing, much like the regime of Julian. You might argue that this transformation of the Roman empire was ultimately the genius of Rome - change, adapt, and survive. But then there are those who say that it was ultimately because of Christianity that the Roman empire fell in 1453, because the slave morality of the Christian religion made it weak and unable to defend itself (Edward Gibbon). I'm not sure which of the two options I'd support, probably neither, because both of them are rather simplistic.
@@KRISTIANITY_ Not really, the Romans were very enamored with the Greeks, at least the upper class who could afford Greek education and luxuries were. The lower classes tended to be less favorable, but there's a reason why the Senate of Rome and most legal proceedings were in Greek. Overall, despite their being a gradient in opinion, Rome was heavily influenced and enamored with Classical Greek Culture.
You do awesome work and your humor hits well! Before when you were questioning what's next for your channel, etc. I hoped that this is what you would do. Like a previous video I fell out of my chair laughing when you were talking about a temple donated by a guy with an unpronounceable name and pronounced it ass fuck. Awesome as always!
well in roman times, infanticide was common and only the husbands choice. Christianity forbidding infanticide and abortion was very popular in amongst the roman women.
@@corneliuscapitalinus845 more like how plagues and shitty incentives to die for your country make people stop fighting for it but hey it’s your podium
There is nothing morally wrong with being gay as long as it’s two consenting adults. Also, if anything Rome declined while Christian spread. So that would actually imply abandoning the Pagan and adopting Christianity helped in that decline lol. Doesn’t that sound silly though? That’s why any actual professional doesn’t take social shit like that seriously when looking at any historical developments.
I'd say the Greeks are gayer - the Greek view was a loving relationship between two men, related somewhat to war with quite a bit of masculinity to it. The Roman view has more room in it for like femboys and stuff, Antonia and Sporus for example, maybe not femboys in the way we would think of it now but certainly without the emphasis on masculinity that almost certainly existed in Greece. Femboys are still men but closer to women than the soldiers involved in Greece, making the Greek version more gay.
Truth the gayest man in history according to the Guinness Book of World Records was Plato while the second gayest man was emperor Hadrian. To put in perspective Freddy Mercury comes in on 9th place.
Roman homosexuality by Craig Williams covers the Roman part. For the Greeks I double checked the part about Eros and sure enough the god of love had many tales regarding male to male love, even one about Hercules and his male lover.
Where do you think you are? This is Rome. My great great ancestor saw Hannibal cross the Alps with War elephants. That's my source. Jupiter curse you if you think otherwise.
It's interesting how in my language there is a word "peder" which is sort of a insulting word for homosexuals or for straight men that don't act so manly
I think it also depends on if you view time or total population as more important. Romans spent more time not gay than the Greeks, but there were a lot more Greek city-states that weren't gay.
Has anyone found the archeological remains of a gathering where all the patrons wore leather pants and tank tops. Most likely called the Latin or Greek version of the words "The Blue Oyster Macho Dance Bar"? Or other variations; "The Spartan Oyster", "The Roman Leather Bar", etc?
@@HVLLOWS1999 bro what they definitely were gay af too I'd say any warrior society has gay undertones, Spartans were well known to like little boys who were their trainees.
Na he got all his info from other UA-cam videos and he's wrong. Read Same-Sex Unions in Pre-Modern Europe by Yale Historian John Boswell. Greece was about a billion times gayer than this storyteller knows about.
I would really like to see you examine the story of Ganymede, the only male lover of Zeus and his cupbearer. They too had a pedastry relationship and he was said to be the only one of Zeus’s lovers that he actually protected against Hera. He was also the only one granted immortality. Some scholars believed that Ganymede was known as the god of homosexual love due to him being in company of the Erotes all the time, particularly Eros who was his best friend/Playmate.
“Greeks felt the sexiest body part were the thighs”
Truly the font of western culture
this shows that greeks werent western
@@niklask8753 no they were, thighs are key to western civilization
They even had a special word for thigh sex ...
@@verandi3882 which one?
*BASED*
No wonder why was olive oil popular in those times...
Celts using butter in the meantime! XD
as a Greek
yeah.....i use alot of olive oil too-
@Saadeh Thanks bro, your Gilgamesh one looks based too
why
It gives a new meaning to "anointed one" ( Greek _xristos_ ) Even Priapus is depicted as anointing his own penis with olive oil.
Now THESE are real questions, we need to keep researching this topic further.
You wanted to say deeper. *wink*
Oh my god
@@TominusMaximus I believe he meant harder. *wink*
By god I shall help. Buy me two tickets to Greece and Italy, a phone with Grindr, a ton of olive oil, and I shall determine
Put more power in the figure it out machine.
Or should I say.. Juice
Another profound Greek victory.
I love your gameplays!!!🎮🕹
Ps- if you’re ok I can show you my roleplays🏓JK!!
Rest of the world, are you even trying?!
ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ! ΗΕΛΛΑΣ!
1- Roma Invicta
2- i disagree with this video actually…
If we see talking about “gays” it is because they didn’t see it as a “normal thing”.
Or at least… it was, but it wasn’t seen as a good thing, for example Heliogabalus was a gay guy who was hated even by his pretorians, in fact they killed him.
Caesar… they made jokes about him even tho he was not gay.
The Greeks were gayer because they were enamored with gayness. The Romans were just hornier.
True gayness is measured in quality, not quantity.
amen to that, brother!
Yeah, Romans seem to be just hornier in general.
Ok professor
I'm not sure if it matters, but Rome had a law making it illegal for two male citizens to lay with each other. It was punishable by death for the top, since they saw it like he removed the citizenry from the bottom
@@niclasjohansson5992 This law was enacted as part of the Justinian Code in the 6th century more than 200 years after the Christianisation of the empire. It didn't exist in the classical period
What virgins study: "Those ancient sources totally got the battle wrong. It wasn't five million Gauls vs 200 Romans! It was more like 20,000 on both sides"
What chads study:
Greeks were obviously gayer. The Romans just became more Greek as time went on.
Roman: suck 100 different ducks
Greek: suck a duck 100 time
Based greeks
The romans got reverse-conversion therapied into gay.
If I know romans try. To limit Greek laws and make first anti gay legislation
@@nileshkumaraswamy2711 kind of like modern children
So greeks were basically doing the knight squire thing before medieval Europe, but with more "sword pollishing"?
The sword polishing is way overblown (lol, blown) - mainly by people looking to validate their crude habits.
Yup but as with any rule there were probably Knights that did that too just secretly.
Just because something is banned does not mean people stopped doing it just look at Junkies
Let's not forget samurai thing
@@corneliuscapitalinus845 hey bro I'm not a pervert bro. Rich people in ancient Rome used to have drunk bisexual orgies bro muh warrior culture, it's not degenerate i swear just trust me bro
@@forickgrimaldus8301 >something is declared bad
>some people still do it
retards: if it were bad, nobody would ever do it
Cant believe youtube took down such a key piece of ancient history
"Im not gay if Im on the top"
-famous philosopher, idk
I'm sure that's still the case in prison now!
You have synthetized history very well
“And I’m always on top.” - Chad Roman males
i feel like tops can get it, you know
You're missing out and so insecure no self respecting dude will want you
Pederasty wasn't innitially sexual. The term platonic love comes from plato saying that a man should love a boy that he's mentoring but if they have sex it's gross. It became sexual only after alexander conquered the east and the greeks became rich and decadent. At that point the romans came into contact with them and they disapproved of that, which is why we have the impression that pederasty was sexual, where as in the greek golden age it wasn't.
and lets not forget that in the greco roman world, relationship between tennager and adults was the norm even in straight relationships, roman girls married at 15 years of age
Funny how wealth and comfort seem to inexorably lead to homosexuality.
@@floridaman318 -looks at me
- being gay and poor
- where is wealth ?
@@praisethesun.praisedeussol6051 what country are you in
are you a discord mod?
_That's another reason why those effete Roman Italian senators despised me, because I actually loved my wife. My Julia was a true goddess in personality, brains and body. I really enjoyed rubbing it in their obnoxious faces._
_Although there are times where I do wish she had given me daughters instead of sons..._
At least the first one was ok
@@balintkiraly6187 _Me._
Note to self, never anger Severus otherwise its severe
Fun fact: Severus was married to an Arab woman, Julia is what romans call anyone whose names they cant pronounce. Domna, is an archaic Arabic word meaning "black",[8][9] referencing the nature of Elagabal which took the form of a black stone.
Sauce for quotes?
Hadrian was gay on an entirely different level than his contemporaries, he founded an entire cult in honor of his boyfriend.
Also a massive fan of Greek culture, and arguably one of the best emperors Rome had ever had.
Not gay, bisexual.
The Romans looked down on homosexuals. Bisexuality was fine, but being exclusively homosexual was frowned upon as everyone was expected to have a wife and children.
@@yoloswaggins7121 I am not talking about Rome in general, but Hadrian in particular (and in a somewhat tongue in cheek way).
It seems to me that you misunderstood what I said...
@@Mandark020 I'm pretrt sure that Hadrian was bisexual and not gay.
Although I see your point. He did seem very devoted to his boyfriend and made a cult in his honour, but I think this is more because of his tragic death.
Lol Gaydrian
@@yoloswaggins7121 he had a wife but to my knowledge their relationship was purely about procreation and he had no love or affection for her, he has no known female lovers which was extremely rare for most emperors while his relationship with his greekoid bubble butt bottom was extremely affectionate physically and emotionally
I would love a video explaining how, when and why, paganism was replaced so fast by Christianity.
Despite that Rome itself fell.
a video about how Paganism could have survived also if The reforms of emperor julian succeded would be very cool also
Best I can say is:
1.Rome was interconnected, after all every road leads to Rome and travel was very accesibile
2. Because of the previous point bishops and the like could, after Constantine made Christianity legal travel and spread their teachings across the empire easily
3. The romans never did enforce their religious views on the population. Sure they wanted you to be pegan but they didn't meddle in people's affairs. Often times they just left the people to worship whatever local gods they had whereas christians saw themselves as having a duty to convert others to their religion much like most other Abrahamic religions
4. Pegans also had a multitude of gods. The closest they've gotten to having a central figure was Sol Invictus (correct me if I'm wrong) and they didn't try to enforce that one god and unify the population.
5. Christianity was a religion which offered the prospect of an easy afterlife which was peaceful. This obviously appealed to the masses which broke their back in late antiquity and had a pretty miserable life, so you can imagine why they'd choose to embrace this religion. Add to that the fact that christians liked to share amongst them food and the like (as someone from an Orthodox Christian county we have a lot of holidays on which food is given alongside a bunch of other stuff, mainly in small communities but you get the point).
6. In the Roman world, converting one person often meant converting the whole household-if the head of the household was converted, he decided the religion of his wife, children and slaves.
7. Stories of miracles and healings purportedly showed that the one Christian God was more powerful than the many Roman gods, or at least that's what the christians were trying to make people at the time believe.
Well given that the pagan world seem to be having more gay sex than not, i’d say the birth rate is one of the main reasons why Christianity exploded.
@rimacutem of Alsvartrsmiðr- Crisis of the 3rd Century had already destabilized and nearly torn the empire apart, and the Byzantines had no problems in administrating their empire despite it being Christian
@@1lobster Also, Christianity forbade abortions or child abandoning, so yeah.
"Sextus Tedius"
This guy doesn't sound like a very good lover.
I wonder how widespread this was. Was this only popular among the Roman patrician and equestrian classes, or the vast majority of plebs too? We might be a little biased since contemporary historians were almost always of the upper, literate classes.
We'll never know, though Pompeii graffiti gives us some idea
It was widespread among arabs and ottomans too despite being a Muslim all of that changed because of fundamentalism.
@@Ayushgraphy only among the Turks, as in Arab societies it was already despised by the 8th century, so you can’t really blame fundamentalism.
@@theArab__ arabs used to engaged in it with pleasure😌 😂they started to despised in 19th century because of wahhabism
@@Ayushgraphy while it did happen, it wasn’t very common, as it depended from muslim state to Muslim state, and Wahhabism wasn’t an influential force until the late 20th century so it’s got nothing to do with it. Homosexuality was denounced by Arab society ever since the early caliphates, but yes it did happen, as it still does.
8:01 you said Eastern Roman emperor Julian but I think you meant Justin. Julian was the last pagan emperor and despised Christianity, he probably did not hate homosexuality.
God dammit, not again. I always mix those two names up. Thanks for the correction.
@@TominusMaximus What was Julian's stance on gayness though?
As far as I know Julian devoted his life to science and maintained celibacy for the most of his life.
So he was gay lol
@@TominusMaximus All priests are gay then, and I imagined that it was only the pedophiles
Damn. Ancient Rome is the civilization I have always been most interested in. Now... I'm even more interested in it!
gay
Thats not true. Western cultures use gay all the time as an insult and it is. Sex with same sex doesnt lead to population increase
@1chems0 so youre just racist in response to homophobia
@@binguscat2514 grow up
@@j-wizzy how is it racist? He's completely correct
"It's not gay if you're the top!" - Romans
Tops are supergay from sexological point of view.
Most men are vers. Read Same-Sex Unions in Pre-Modern Europe by Yale Historian John Boswell. Greece was about a billion times gayer than this storyteller knows about.
I do want to point out that the Spartans were the least gay. They literally mocked the Athenians as being boy lovers and unable to find or keep women, as their fathers had already taken them all.
So, uh, Lacadaemons were the least gay I suppose?
Athenians also called spartans boy lovers because many in the spartan army were fucking each other
That’s not to seat the Spartans weren’t gay though. They had to spend years together with only men, so they did sleep with each other during that time. Once they reached the age they were given wives and were expected to have children, they usually stopped. Although some men (probably the actually gay ones) became very depressed once they reached this stage and had to have their wives shave bald and dress like men to “finish”.
@@HW-sw5gb and there is spartan laws saying that women can be gay as long as they have done their duty as wife (having already produce an heir)
Kind of sounds like you're taking 300 too seriously lol. Athens threw the same accusations at Sparta. Bi relations did occur quite a bit in Sparta. Mainly in the child soldier training they had, with captured slaves and iirc with soldiers themselves, although the latter was more discouraged than it was in Thebes or Athens
@@HW-sw5gb Though the foremost source we have on the Spartans said that, contrary to Athenian assumption, they regarded the idea of a physical relationship between mentor and apprentice (they even used the non-sexual terms "Speaker" and "Listener" for them respectively) with the same abhorrence as incest.
Greeks: being the big gay
Romans: being the big gay
meanwhile in egypt: "Holy is Sobek, fursona of semen"
What right do you have as a 21st century beta to insult Romans and Greeks
@@JesusChristisLord.3 maybe he's Gay?
Egyptians aren't furries...LOL 🤣
@@DoctahDizzle The Achaemenid Empire is typing...
@@DoctahDizzle no, their gods were lmao
This is the content I never knew I needed
Is this you from Discord?
@@unclesam5230 nice seeing you here
@@nyxhighlander9894 you too
is it...big?
Except that the storyteller here got all his info from other UA-cam videos and he's wrong. Read Same-Sex Unions in Pre-Modern Europe by Yale Historian John Boswell. Greece was about a billion times gayer than this storyteller knows about.
Now listen.
The Romans could just say no homo. That makes it not gay.
I rest my case.
Not funny
Gay means happy so then we should be doing which emperor was the gayest
Ive unironically been looking for a professor or historian to ask this exact question
My college history professor loved to do demonstrations on his students so I'd be terrified if I asked him about ancient gay sex
@@TominusMaximus do it for science
Seriously--go to a real historian. This guy got all his info from other UA-cam videos and he's wrong. Read Same-Sex Unions in Pre-Modern Europe by Yale Historian John Boswell. Greece was about a billion times gayer than this storyteller knows about.
There's a great description by Livy about the monogamy and strict heterosexuality of German tribes being remarkable and strange. Also guess we know why so many famous Roman women were completely insane.
The Romans were already far from their common Indo European ancestors at that time.
If it’s remarkable doesn’t that mean most other tribes weren’t that way? I suspect most at least allowed male polygamy.
@@withnail-and-i ah the classic "everything i don't like isn't white"
@@floridaman318 No, the Chinese culture remains to this day the greatest that our species has ever seen. And it will lead the future.
@@withnail-and-i right. That's why it's china that dominated the world for the last 500 years, right?
5:46 Wait a minute, who was Augustus's male "lover"? I ask that because I'm quite sure that we have no definitive mention of him having such relationships. Of course there were claims that he had such relationship with Caesar himself, but that is today by historians agreed to be most likely a propaganda made by Mark Anthony to discredit Augustus. Not to mention that he was quite known for his very deep love for his wife Livia. So again, who was his lover?
Check out History Collection's article "The Scandalous love lives of 8 Roman emperors". There is some information referring to Augustus' homosexuality
@@arttuke4757 You mean by Aulus Hirtius? Again that's most likely propaganda of Mark Anthony and his brother Lucius. Such slander for being a "gay receiver" in Rome was quite common actually. But as I said, barring such propaganda examples, we don't have any proof of a genuine love relationship with any male. Not to mention that Augustus was quite known in his time to be in heavy favour of a man-woman marriages and even decreed many of his natalist measures.
How can Caesar be gay? He had 2 Kids that means he was Bi not Gay.
@@Qwerty-yp3jq He was most likely neither Bi nor gay. Again as I said, this story is almost completely propaganda. Although Caesar himself would be earlier in his life be dragged into similar smear campaign, where his enemies claimed that he had sexual relationship with a king of Bythinia while he was staying at his court. Wether this story is true is hard to tell. I personally don't believe it, because if Caesar did such a thing it would severely diminish his image, something that Caesar would surely not allow.
If anyone thinks Augustus had a male lover, I'd assume they'd claim Agrippa. He was a close personal friend and general of Augustus and was extremely loyal.
I still think this is more modern projection onto the past. Dudes can't just be bros anymore.
5:35 "It'd even be weird if you didn't engage in such behavior."
In ancient Rome:
Person 1: "You really gotta try some of that bussy bro it's awesome!"
Person 2: "Um, yeah, I'm not into that..."
Person 1: "What are you, gay!?"
A wife, in the eyes of Romans, was primarily to be the mother of children and the giver of a dowry from her father. It was a socio-economic bond. The average married Roman man would have either a slave girl/boy or go to the lupanarium for sex.
Absolutely based.
@@Anonymous07192 yeah lack of discipline is so based.
@@floridaman318 Bro, it was crazy. All the comedies of Terence and Plautus feature some young man trying to get a hooker or slave girl
@@Moribus_Artibus so??? Doesn't mean it was normal behavior outside of elite circles.
Modern analogue: is housewives of x real life besides for the rich?
Not the average person tho
Now this is quality content
"Historians": I love WW2 history! Did you know that the Germans thought they were the good guys?
Actual Historians:
*disdain of plebs intensifies*
"A gay relationship between an older man and his younger companion...."
So..... Batman and Robin.
Good to see this real masterpiece.
>Roman nuggas walked around with names like Gayus and Metellus (sounds like Mételos which means put them in, in Spanish).
It should also be noted that just because homosexuality obviously and of course existed throughout the Greco-Roman world, it wasn't always vastly approved neither encouraged or sometimes it was a matter of how "much gay" could someone be allowed to be or show. Despite the fact that people even scientists can generalise entire societies it wasn't always the case. A fairly good example(I believe at least) is if I remember right was that at a symposium that a guy who won a poetry contest held in Classical Athens in his house,was mocked and laughed at by many guests (both men and women) for being too gay and "girly" like shaving off his ankles,speaking with a higher pitched voice,putting a lot of makeup,never had sex with a woman etc... (he was indeed known for being with a lot of men).I'm not saying that homosexuality didn't exist during those times and since forever or wasn't real ( it is and was real and no-one should deny that) but we should also never hold a view that it was widely accepted by everyone and anyone during those times.
the greek word for "lover" could also be translated as "friend" or "companion" depending on the context, so a biased historian could easily change the meaning of the scriptures completely to make it look like two male friends were lovers(Achilles and Patroclus are the best example for that).
Ancient Greeks and Romans had rather negative opinions on makeup and beautification, since they viewed it as degrading to make oneself more sexy for others. This did not necessarily translate to dislike of homosexuality, for example actors and slave-traders were both despised by "polite society" but their services were still used and appreciated
So basically it's ok to be gay but not feminine lol it's still kinda same today if you are gay, you are more likely to accepted if you are masculine than feminine
You have a contemporary patriarchal take on homosexuality. Homosexuality and flamboyancy are two different things.
Back then was more like a cult of masculinity with the other men and each other , and the encouragement of athletism strenght youth , cult of body etc. A kind of approval among your male peers , exploring each other body , and also as strong connection and support when youre at war far from home and your wife. Sadly in ancient greece , women were even locked in the home in some cases , you couldnt have the same type of sex with people who easily can get pregnant. That also a reason why they were like " preserved " 😥 .
Like in some parts of mediterranean and middle eastern tradition , the young boys had the permition to be slightly femenine and they had the role of submissive bottoms. This worked as some kind of pervy initiation on the adult phase of life , and they were the slaves.
A grown up bearded man with homosexual tendencies couldnt typically be a bottom . At least if you were the older one in the sex activities.
We recently come from a culture were this gay male or bicurious impulses have been repressed and men of every kind had to live their tastes in private.
And without clear ancient reference we tend to associate people who like men with the group that traditionally had preserve femeninity : women.
Having sex with your own gender and being girly has nothing in common. Being girly while being born male is more of a gender expression discussion , in my opinion
"what about the wives" was a missed opportunity to talk about the cult of baucus, which was a cult active in both Greek and Roman periods, dedicated to wives getting drunk and sleeping with slave men.
And eventually became a spanking cult with a lot of lesbian elements.
Dam, really? Do you have any books or articles to link me on?
link, man.
BASED?
.
It wasn't dedicated to wives it was just men and women meeting up to get drunk and do illegal sex acts while listening to loud music, it wasn't a lesbian sex cult
This was hilarious.. Can you make more content similar to “Aurelian drop it” too?
Nothing funny about it. He got all his info from other UA-cam videos and he's wrong. Read Same-Sex Unions in Pre-Modern Europe by Yale Historian John Boswell. Greece was about a billion times gayer than this storyteller knows about, mostly with dudes the same age. To lie about it and make it seem gross when it was awesome is the opposite of hilarious.
1:13 omg the derogatory term for gay in my language is peder and now I know where it comes from lol
Are you from russia?
or there are other languages with the same word?
@@viiizzaalishvili9967 I'm from bosnia. It's used in our languages down here. It's used in Russia too?
@@redhidinghood9337 yes, but it's pronounced more like pidr. Maybe it's a word in slavic languages in general.
@@Artorias1234 yeah probably
in polish we have a similar word "pedał" but it sounds a little different and its a derogatory term for gay people
i think people really underestimate how much a culture can change over the course of a few generations their was a stage in Athens where homosexuals were barred from holding office I'm quite sure this was the equivalent to the modern wests view of homosexuals a mere 100yrs ago so for me the question isn't whether the greeks/romans are gay/er it's a question of when they were gay and when they were not almost all society's seem to have a homosexual period and boxing a culture into single stereotype seems nonacademic
Also forgetting the amount of time these civilizations existed "the greeks" consisted of a multitude of different cultures with widely different views.
Reguardless from a wide perspective sex between males was extremely common, with a variety of stipulations and outliers
Civilizations at their peak always honor man to man love. Ancient Greece, Samurai Japan, Medieval Islam. Get academic--this guy is obviously not--he got all his info from other UA-cam videos and he's wrong. Read Same-Sex Unions in Pre-Modern Europe by Yale Historian John Boswell. Greece was about a billion times gayer than this storyteller knows about.
@@DavidProductionsThe elite of those nations not their average peasants
To think the Romans and Greeks were free to be gay in their time, yet not here on UA-cam today :(
They were not "gay" you do not do proper historical research You have personal bias so you want it to be true
Oh shit you still around cool
@@JesusChristisLord.3 It's true, i'd love to see an HBO series about a cabal of Roman femcels who assassinate all the most bootiful booty bois in Rome to get their husbands back.
@Leon lionhardt yet they still fell
@Leon lionhardt clown
ah yes, the ancient european traditions.
I used to think Nietzsche was exaggerating in saying Christianity was the slaves' revenge against the Roman government, but I'm kinda starting to see his point. Christianity basically condemned everything that the Roman elite had - money, success, pride, power, fun, all kinds of sex, everything that's nice about life in general. And it makes sense when you think about it, cause I've seen individual people like that in my own life. They don't have what you have, so they'd rather you didn't have it either, out of envy. And they criticize you for having sex and whatnot, or subtly scorn or disregard your success as something that's beneath them.
I that case the Romans of the Republican era were "envious" of Greeks (they weren't) since they had much of the same views on money, sex and leisure as the Christians you're speaking of.
That's weird, because Rome with Christianity lasted another 1,000 years after the fall of the Western Roman Empire.
It lasted the same with as it did without Christianity.
@@decimusausoniusmagnus5719 Um, no, they didn't. How did you get the idea that Republican Rome had values resembling Christianity? And yes - you can argue that indeed the Romans were envious of the Greeks, in terms of the Greeks' achievements in philosophy and art etc, which is why they adopted and imitated their achievements, and which is also why they hurriedly labelled them as 'slaves', so weak and pathetic that they got conquered by the rough Romans. That reeks of envy to me.
@@KraNisOG That's not the point, Rome may have lasted as a political entity, but it did so, because it adopted the increasingly predominant Christian morality and worldview, instead of rejecting it and collapsing, much like the regime of Julian. You might argue that this transformation of the Roman empire was ultimately the genius of Rome - change, adapt, and survive. But then there are those who say that it was ultimately because of Christianity that the Roman empire fell in 1453, because the slave morality of the Christian religion made it weak and unable to defend itself (Edward Gibbon). I'm not sure which of the two options I'd support, probably neither, because both of them are rather simplistic.
@@KRISTIANITY_ Not really, the Romans were very enamored with the Greeks, at least the upper class who could afford Greek education and luxuries were. The lower classes tended to be less favorable, but there's a reason why the Senate of Rome and most legal proceedings were in Greek.
Overall, despite their being a gradient in opinion, Rome was heavily influenced and enamored with Classical Greek Culture.
Obviously Greeks. All those muscles 🤤
When we started thinking love could bloom bettewn man and woman is wheb civilization loss his way
Return to eros
go away Hadrian you're dead
"I came, i saw, i conquered"
-Julius Caesar after coming in a gay club
You do awesome work and your humor hits well! Before when you were questioning what's next for your channel, etc. I hoped that this is what you would do. Like a previous video I fell out of my chair laughing when you were talking about a temple donated by a guy with an unpronounceable name and pronounced it ass fuck. Awesome as always!
Yeah, Emperors Phocas and Pupienus, mortal enemies for life
Back when gays could go to wars
well in roman times, infanticide was common and only the husbands choice. Christianity forbidding infanticide and abortion was very popular in amongst the roman women.
What are you even trying to say with this comment?
@@floridaman318 That Christianity was good for women ig
@@wongijen9167 i think I posted on the wrong comment
@@wongijen9167 at those times, probably
Not the video we asked for,
but the video we needed.
muslims were the gayest. Don’t delete my comment, you joke, we joke too. Come on.
Acient Greek Warrior:Physically attarcted to *THIGHS*
Me:Im a Greek warrior myself
7:42 here comes Jesus' simps ruining the fun yet again. Can't even kiss the homies goodnight anymore
I blame the Wxmen
@Leon lionhardt you sound repressed.
Now THIS is kino.
Ok but what about Julias Caeser… “ He was Every women’s husband and every mans wife”
Now this is a video with a real controversial topic. Even more then why exactly the Empire fell.
Rome fell when it stopped being gay 😓
@@redhidinghood9337 _Sack of Constantinople in 1204._
Ok then.
Red riding hood
Ghey cope.
Conversely, Rome is a testament to how gheying around will reap a rotten harvest
@@corneliuscapitalinus845 more like how plagues and shitty incentives to die for your country make people stop fighting for it but hey it’s your podium
There is nothing morally wrong with being gay as long as it’s two consenting adults.
Also, if anything Rome declined while Christian spread. So that would actually imply abandoning the Pagan and adopting Christianity helped in that decline lol. Doesn’t that sound silly though? That’s why any actual professional doesn’t take social shit like that seriously when looking at any historical developments.
Both are super straight. Being able to impose your dominance over a woman is easy, but over another man. That’s extremely masculine and straight.
I love that you can provide great content by mixing humour with historical facts. Kudos!
Greek is not gay their relationship between man and man is just like homies with homies
Wtf I love christianity now! :|
I'd say the Greeks are gayer - the Greek view was a loving relationship between two men, related somewhat to war with quite a bit of masculinity to it. The Roman view has more room in it for like femboys and stuff, Antonia and Sporus for example, maybe not femboys in the way we would think of it now but certainly without the emphasis on masculinity that almost certainly existed in Greece. Femboys are still men but closer to women than the soldiers involved in Greece, making the Greek version more gay.
Truth the gayest man in history according to the Guinness Book of World Records was Plato while the second gayest man was emperor Hadrian. To put in perspective Freddy Mercury comes in on 9th place.
Femboys are still men dude. And femmes are a thing.
Can we all agree that ancient germans were based strictly hetero chads yes?
Could you tell us the sources you used for this?
It appeared to him in a dream
Trust him bro
Roman homosexuality by Craig Williams covers the Roman part. For the Greeks I double checked the part about Eros and sure enough the god of love had many tales regarding male to male love, even one about Hercules and his male lover.
Where do you think you are? This is Rome. My great great ancestor saw Hannibal cross the Alps with War elephants. That's my source. Jupiter curse you if you think otherwise.
@Leon lionhardt because homosexuality causes empires to fall, sure.
Sacred Band of Thebes with grey beards, swing and a miss
So basically as long as you’re not in the receiving end (lol), it’s not gay.
Now this is the content I have been waiting for
did you even do any research other then a quick Wikipedia glance virtually everything you said was completely false utterly disrespectful to history
no u
Finally, a Roman topic my boyfriend will actually like to hear about!
Wow gay
I hope you are not a receiver.
If you're a receiver, you get the cleaver
Gae
I was always a Grecophile anyways
TFW the only Pagan Emperor who wasnt gay was uncle Claudius.
Marcus Aurelius didn't take any lovers as far as I know other than his wife; whom he was very productive with.
@@Pan_Z Marcus Aurelius did in fact have a male lover, Marcus Fronto. You can search for the letters of Marcus Fronto as they have been translated.
_That's where you're wrong..._
@@Pan_Z he seems to have been attracted to both genders but did not act upon it for moral reasons, he "never touched Benedicta or Theodotus"
Such is life for uncle Claudius
This was bretty gud, no homo
Based Emperor Claudius!
It's interesting how in my language there is a word "peder" which is sort of a insulting word for homosexuals or for straight men that don't act so manly
Your from the Balkans?
@@AmonsRealm yes
🇮🇹🤝🏼🇬🇷
🥒🥒
Glad this is back
So.
Who iz gae?
Now this is the content I come to YT for.
I think it also depends on if you view time or total population as more important. Romans spent more time not gay than the Greeks, but there were a lot more Greek city-states that weren't gay.
Ram Ranch has existed since the beginning of time
Meanwhile in Germania gays were usually drowned in bogs at least according to Tacitus...
Actually Sparta was way more accepting of pederasty than Athens. Young lovers for men was not only accepted it was an obligation.
Well this vid was both dank and fascinating, well done.
Has anyone found the archeological remains of a gathering where all the patrons wore leather pants and tank tops. Most likely called the Latin or Greek version of the words "The Blue Oyster Macho Dance Bar"? Or other variations; "The Spartan Oyster", "The Roman Leather Bar", etc?
The only one gayer than the Greeks or the Romans is you, the reader of this comment
K
*_Homosexuality was exported to Greece by Persia from India._*
So it's like prison....its not really a love between two people but a power and class thing.
Love is gay
Imagine St. Peter’s reaction to this shit-bleaches his eyes with holy water.
Neither of them were gay, they were cultured!
GAY VIDEO IS BACK BABY WOOOOO
Retvrn to tradition!
Based Christianity coming in to save the day... thank God!
as a Greek, i think both are, but us Greeks tip the scale more
then again, No Homo.
Spartans were the least gay out of all greece apparently.
I agree Lesbos explains it all, I mean there's literally a sexuality named after that island
@@HVLLOWS1999 i already know
Thebans are the most gay
@@jemalo36 yeah
@@HVLLOWS1999 bro what they definitely were gay af too I'd say any warrior society has gay undertones, Spartans were well known to like little boys who were their trainees.
So... It's not gay if I'm on top. But its fucking debauched if its my wife. Sounds about Roman.
Based Greeks knowing that the Homies always come first.
The fact that there were 60% males in that era do to infantacide on females may have been a reason too
Tops love the Romans
This is the kind of question you always ask, but nobody answer. Thank you!
Na he got all his info from other UA-cam videos and he's wrong. Read Same-Sex Unions in Pre-Modern Europe by Yale Historian John Boswell. Greece was about a billion times gayer than this storyteller knows about.
I would really like to see you examine the story of Ganymede, the only male lover of Zeus and his cupbearer. They too had a pedastry relationship and he was said to be the only one of Zeus’s lovers that he actually protected against Hera. He was also the only one granted immortality. Some scholars believed that Ganymede was known as the god of homosexual love due to him being in company of the Erotes all the time, particularly Eros who was his best friend/Playmate.
Ngl I have a similar view as the Romans, it's only gay if you're receiving 🤣
These videos are actually wonderful. :)
Nothing is more alpha that dominating a lesser man while your wife cooks you dinner, after all.