Disruptors: Smart power - BBC News
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- Опубліковано 22 лип 2024
- The push towards renewable energy and the quest for greater efficiency mean that we need to find more ways of storing energy.
This is part of the BBC's Disruptors series.
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Please stop it with the annoying screen transition effects and noises...omg.
I know. It sucks and the high frequency components really bother me. It's not even the real visual effect you used to get from old TV's
U.S. "documentaries" are even worse, you can count yourself lucky
Yep, totally agree. I guess some young yuppie producers think those old-fashioned noise effects are cool. Well, they are not!
SurfinScientist v
annoys me so much,that new buildings of any sort,especially houses dont have solar as standard when this would keep the industry alive,as well as keeping those bills down,lets see if we can start a revolution.
The revolution starts with you! Please lead by example!
In California all NEW home construction will Require SOLAR on the roof, a Powerwall or Home Battery is Optional but a likely add on. your HOME after charging POWERWALL first can then go 100% Battery and send Solar Electric to the GRID for a Paycheck .
The important thing for new-build is insulation and airtightness so that the winter heating (and summer cooling) demand is low. That has much more effect on our overall decarbonisation than PV on the roof (which is also a good idea, but there is no way it can provide UK winter heating). The UK is a long way north so the summer/winter solar input varies by a factor of 9. That makes our winter heat load the critical thing that will be hard to decarbonise. Currently it's 95% gas and that all has to go (or be turned into bio-gas). Removing load is most cost-effective. Nuclear and wind are the other two options. In practice we almost certainly need a lot of all 3.
@@Wookey. I would think that between wind and offshore turbines capturing the currents there would be no shortage of energy. Hydro of that type I believe is still in its infancy in terms of production scale
@@Wookey.
Insulation is very important to reduce waste, most certainly, however as long as there is sunlight solar can produce energy, even under many cloudy conditions. That combined with wind (in locations that have it) can go a long way. Nuclear is not a realistic solution simply because it is too costly when plant construction, decommission and spent fuel storage is factored in. The highly radioactive spent fuel rods are also another major concern. Natural gas or propane plants are the only really good fall back option in combination with solar and wind as they are the least polluting of the fossil fuels. The liquid air plant that was shown in this video didn't mention anything about efficiency but I suspect that it's quite poor.
Why is there no "CC" function on BBC news videos on UA-cam? So many BBC news videos there are good materials of practising English listening. CC function can show the words what people are saying in the way of the subtitle. So convenient and useful.
Great to see our telsa battery gets a mention-south australia now over 50% renewable power generation
Dude, don't take my air, i need it to breathe.
How efficient is cold air compared to other systems?
19.3%
Looked up the efficiency. The company selling the idea suggests 50% is possible within a system where low grade waste heat is available for the process needed to heat and thus expand the cold nitrogen back to a high pressure. It takes a lot of electricity to clean, compress and chill it. That is less efficient, even when the source of waste heat is both available and right there to be used, than storing the electricity needed by the process directly into a battery bank.
I would say that the other caveat to getting good efficiency might be the time factor. The process also has limits to its ability to absorb available surplus electricity, I suspect. The "waste heat" will still go to waste if not needed during the storage phase, and also when there is no need to store the renewables as the supply gets full consumed by the grid.
I still think that battery storage will win out in most places where pumped hydro is not cost effective. Maybe even in those places if the switch-over takes more than mere milliseconds.
Even 50% would be really low compared to high-80s in battery-storage. If it's nearer to 20%, there's really no reason to use cold air.
This. When he started talking about it was like what shit is this hahaha
The whole issue is that if the energy were not used, it would go to waste. Thus the energy not being used by the community is instead used to liquefy/chill air for use when green power is low or not available - night for solar or lack of wind for turbine. Is is viable....I think it depends on the cost of the plant vs the cost of a conventional battery type solution including employee, upkeep and maintenance costs.
This type of facility might be better suited to cold climate regions. Not because it will help liquefy the air but because batteries tend to lose function and storage performance in cold weather and have to be maintained at or above room temperature....meaning it has to be heated.
Liquefying air may not be the best methodology but I'm glad people are thinking outside the box on these issues. I only wish the cost of things like solar and power storage would drop to a viable level
What's the efficiency of that air storage thing
love the programme!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Excellent.
we can have a good life with 1/2 the energy we use now!
Good to see another utility scale energy storage to exist which is mostly run by the laws of thermodynamics.
interesting documentation ......
Professor Sovacool, at 2min10s mark you were meant to say "water vapour" rather than "steam"
holy god.....energy stored in mode of cold liquid air.....wow....so much still to know
What is the problem with generating electricity from rain? A lot of fans can be installed as the rain falls everywhere. Fans can be placed on top of the house, in the field and in the sea. If the number of fans is increased, more power can be produced. If the generator is movable, it can be moved after the rainy season.
Nothing on flow batteries here? I wonder how efficient the liquid N system is vs flow batteries.
The thumbnail reminds me so much of London.
Love that disruptive stuff in Africa.
On the cold air storage I wonder if, as they pump atmospheric air through it, they can separate out the fraction that is CO2 (which goes solid at -70-ish C) so they can extract it from the air and safety store it away. That would earn then some carbon credit money I think right?
While harder to manage, a distributed energy supply grid would be far more robust against power outages.
V2g such a good idea
Learn how you can become a renewable energy pioneer at resystechdotcom.
Reducing demand is the biggest energy "supply". The massive grid is required to handle the peak load on the system but a little cooperation by each home or business significantly reduces the need for giant and expensive grids. Especially thanks to local energy generation. Builders should contact LumenCache for a smart infrastructure that helps reduce demand and improves smarthome user experience
There are ways to produce saleable energy supply at any location 24/7 with more modern methods than old wind & solar through large transmission lines and into storage. I came across some presentation videos from an energy design lab called H2IL They have some revolutionary, game-changing technology that looks very interesting. It could be the biggest thing since energy itself.. Worth looking into.
Was this actually on bbc main news?
So, what happen to those people, who get stuck on their installment ?? hm.. i wonder~
United states needs to make more solar farms. More wind power. This would help on developing electricity more cleaner.
Where will the remains of the thousands of windmills go to die when their 20 year lifespan expires?
@@Plainsman1300
One of many good questions without a good answer. It seems as if the current fad is to jump from the frying pan into the fire. Who cares if we are making things worse as long as we are doing something.
5:34 Enel is an Italian company 🇮🇹!!!!
I like the idea of liquid air.
They didn't say how efficient it was. That plant only powered 5000 homes compared with the Tesla battery plant which could power 30000 homes for 1 hour. That's 6 times the energy storage and with millisecond response.
@@MrPDawes The Tesla battery plant looked like it covered a lot more area than this though so id assume that's more about scale.
Also with this to get more storage you just make the tanks bigger or add more storage tanks so it could be cheaper for long term storage with batteries cheaper for short term storage.
I love how this is being used to lift people out of extreme poverty.
liquid cool air is very potential, can use it to power rocket
I like the Africa systems the best. I run something similar to power all of my outdoor requirements and the yard and power tools that are rechargeable (all of them including the mower)
Please use Gw-hr to describe energy storage and not just gigawatts.
This electric sounds was very irritable.
The BBC and other TV companies are adding this extremely annoying random note background music to ever more programmes. Even repeats that originally did not have it, are getting it added. I have stopped watching some shows because it annoys me so much and disrupts my concentration on documentaries.
Indianapolis has a (battery)energy shortage array . It is used in conjunction with renewable sources such as solar🌞 (seemingly growing every day) & wind 🌬. They are also turning to natural gas more in the fossil fuel area. (Gas turbine generators, etc.)
This is being done on the grid by power provider Indianapolis Power and Light. ⚡
15:31 this guy must be the chief. He has a leather jacket!
grt
The cold air battery, doesn't seem be a battery at all. It looks like a power generation engine, using liquid nitrogen for fuel. Perhaps a little more explanation of the process, would be useful here?
What an irritating sound effects in this video :/
Capacitor Energy Tech
I like the idea of micro-hydroelectricity. There are lots of places to store water for micro-hydro. It could be stored inside the walls of large tall buildings absorbing heat in the summer then drain it through the turbines at night. Water works as an insulator in the winter as well. Mirco-hydro in underground storm water runoff and reservoirs could also be built.
We could also invest more in energy efficiency. Don't just think of new ways to produce more power and store more power but rethink how we use power. Do we all really need to commute to an office everyday? Would people really be opposed to living underground where temperatures change very little? What if the goods and services were produced closer to where they were consumed or transported more efficiently? What if we could grow floating oxygen producing islands in the middle of the oceans?
How will this matter in 2,000,000 years?
Why isn't hydroelectric power considered renewable energy? It is clean cheap and abundant, where available and much of the power generated, can be shared with other states, like California.
We are a year old startup in india. Have developed a technology which solves the duck curve issue of renewable energy efficiently. Can we connect?
FIRE YOUR GRAPHICS DESIGNER AND VIDEOGRAPHER
The transition 'shiver' effects are cheap and don't belong in 2018/19
👌
I'm a little disappointed that they didn't include Energy Vault in their list of disruptive energy technologies. Energy Vault is essentially a gravity battery technology, but they amusingly describe themselves as hydro-electric technolgy using cement blocks instead of running water.
Wouldn’t charging and recharging car batteries constantly mean they’d loose capacity faster? What could work is by the time the car fails or the battery range is far to low they could get taken out of the car and are connected to the grid until they loose all of there capacity to hold charge
Germaine's Blog I think the idea with those cars is not so much to store or transport large amounts of energy. That would be incredibly inefficient as you say. I think the cars are used to stabilise the grid supply, same with the Tesla battery in south Australia. When demand fluctuates unpredictably, supply needs to adjust power output, maintain frequency etc. I think the cars are probably helping with that.
Yea it's only 4-5kwh that is available from each car, multiple that by millions of cars and it would make a difference, new cars are coming out with 250-300 miles range and are likely to loose only about 10% of that over 8-10 years!
Nissan do recycle their batteries for home storage at the end of their motoring days!
We are getting there, battery charging and use will also be revolutionised when solid state batteries come into play!
BBoxx and Azuri are great companies, if one has good manufacturing like to see them join with BioLite. Make something based around the BioLite SolarHome 620 a unit comes as low as $120 including two lights solar and battery, radio. BioLite operates in Kenya.
If BBC is going to be biased please be biased towards renewables and sustainable living.
Sonar luminescence check it out .... why doesn’t mainstream look into that ...or rf energy ..like Tesla was doing 100 years ago .... because they can’t tax it that’s why ...
What's with the fake HD resolution on this video? Why even offer 1080p if it's just a badly upscaled version of a lower resolution video?
Much better to use supercapacitors for short term storage, no loss of capacity and minimal power loss. There will also be new, more effective and cheaper batteries available within the next few years.
_Very_ short term. They work fine for regenerative braking in vehicles and frequency control on grids, but they are useless for storage of more than a few minutes.
@@Wookey. they are getting better, and you would never use capacitors on their own.
What is going happens to all the batteries needed to store this energy years from now?
neonfiremarcus The batteries can be recycled. Tesla is doing it now.
Car cells > static storage (10-20 years?) > Full recycling.
It's obvious that cold air storage is one of the worst way to store energy, it's not effecient and it's far from maintenance free (there is alot of mecanical parts).
V2G isnt available here. So you're unfortunately going to have to keep on hoping, since until it becomes viable and available, there won't be a lot of support :/
Where do you live?
High speed trains with regenerative wind water energy for india,africa,
What alien technology you are talking 'bout peyotcacti
Car company?? It has been Tesla energy for a long time
In cold climates, solar with natural gas is a workable combination. Solar with batteries isn't. So how do we quit burning natural gas?
stop being a first world country, after all the bullshit and double speak that is really what all this is a about. Good luck with that in the UK climate.
poor audio balancing
You would be amazed at the amount of people that do not want you using solar power Canada boast about solar power cars and wind turbines and solar homes..Yet In order to get solar power into your home you have to go with the Hydro company list of which panels and extra to buy or they will not hook you up to the grid Then you must have one of their sister companies or someone paying the company to "look at your system and say yes or no" this takes weeks on weeks into months to flip a switch to have you making solar and putting power into and back on the grid ..For the cost and the wear and tear on your system .. and the basic month fee You will not get that money back in savings Ontario sold its hydro to the USA and prices have been climbing more than the norm .. ..greed over need
Net metering is not a desirable by the residential or single noncomericial users. The best current method is a battery backed up solar, wind and hydro electrical system, with grid charging of the battery bank when necessary or needed. All extra power from solar, wind or hydro should be sent to on site arteries and not the grid.
Well, we have 12 years during which we have to become carbon negative. No pressure.
big oof
This VTG thing won't work. People charge their cars at night so they can drive them around during the day. They don't charge them during the day to use the battery to watch tv at night and probably never will.
The laws of Thermodynamics dictate that energy is never perfectly converted from one form to another. This is seen in conventional power plants to a great degree, but it is even more pronounced in renewable plants. The average solar panel is about 15% efficient, compared to 33% in a thermal or nuclear plant. Wind sits at about 30%. And there is no way to improve those values, because there is no way to get around thermodynamics. In short: non-hydro renewables will never become commonplace. Only hydroelectric and nuclear power have a chance at beating fossil fuels.
14:54 Liv Tyler?
MMMMMMM Liv Tyler 😛
Everything is electric, from the atom to the sun.
Look at Gerard Morin.
Car to grid systems is not really a good thing because if the cars use lithium batteries, the batteries will degrade much faster
If done correctly, only a few percentage difference. A typical electric car battery can hold a week work of average USA household power usage, and we're incredibly wasteful. v2g doesn't need hundreds of hours of power, only 2-4 hours to get over that peak. Even sharing only 30 minutes would be a decent win.
@@BenjaminCronce typical? average US household? methinks you are stretching things a little,, but you know that
I thought we answered the question DC vs AC back in Tesla's day DC power is very inefficient for the grid so why are we trying to make huge battery plants and use batteries in general 4 large utility companies it almost sounds like we're trying to do exactly what Edison wanted which we all know how that went
Modern High voltage DC beats AC for transmission of power over long distance.
Solar peak power in the middle of the day just when we need it ............not
Subscribe 15:14 - 15:32
Cars, even as a collective, produce too little electricity to make the cost viable for car manufacturers to include them. They'll instead just make the electric models like what the trend is currently showing toward
My stove. It takes 1-2 seconds to light the burner. Over 20 years just my stove i have pushed un-burnt natural gas out. When I calculated it it comes to 36 hours of wasted fuel. calculate that by the millions of stoves out there. my furnace takes 1 second to light as well. lol
Clean coal for the win? None of this hippie stuff! MAGA. Cough cough, sorry just a touch of black lung.
Patrick Carroll ...?
We don't want air pollution but pure CO2 to make the plants grow.
@@kenmarriott5772 that's by far one of the dumbest arguments against climate science ever. smh
@@joeyhext8323 that doesn't mean much. if we pump all of our fossil fuel reserves into the air in the form of CO2 we'll be royally screwed. And we're already quite screwed.
*delicious clean coal ftw
Interesting information spoiled by irritating production effects. I guess this program was made to educate children. The sound editor should stick to working on animated kid's programmes.
Car to grid is going to wear your battery out because battery will last for x number of charge discharge Cycles then you need new batteries.
Therefore Australia's idea is better, buy batteries for the grid nationality.
The amount of batteries needed will ultimately be the same because instead of having to replace all the car batteries that same amount of capacity has been purchased exclusively for the grid
Yeah, it looks like a nice idea but not particularly scalable. Better to invest in denser energy storage solutions like what Australia is doing. Scaling up renewables is how to fight climate change and energy scarcity.
What do you think all the manufacturers are planning to use car batteries for when they leave the cars?
The packs will be dismantled and the cells placed into static storage batteries just like the one in Australia, because the relative loads on the cells are so much lower than in a car.
it's not so much the recharge Cycles that causes the problems with batteries, it's the stress of the extremely high charge and discharge during rejane and acceleration. I understand they're expecting used car cells to last anything up to 10 or 20 years Extra in static storage.
Habbib Bihak companies engaged O Rit anyone who knew Jml partner solar energy sends the Gemayel
Solar all the way. I have 4kw on my place with a smart diverter to send excess electric to the panel heaters after the hot water has been done. The rest goes into the batteries which I use in the evening when no more solar energy is available. I still have leftover to export to the grid. Wind is a waste of time as the inverters for these work hard and need to be changed every 5-10 years. Makes me angry with all these videos trying to baffle people with science. Dont believe the bullshit you hear. If every house had solar with a couple of batteries, there wouldn't be this talk of energy crisis. Return on investment in solar is 10-15. Find anything that will give you that back. My electric bill is £2-8 a month. I do use a tiny but only because I have extra heating for my chickens in winter. I am a solar engineer in East Anglia so shop around and dont be fooled by free solar offers. The price is coming down drastically this year and into 2019. I should really start making simple non-BS videos and real returns on installs.
and of course that is easily afforded and relicated across the community, many of whom dont own the home they are in or are in apartments
We could also move daylight saving to 2 hours in the peak of summer to save wasting electricity in the evening and switch off street lights in small hours instead of this ridiculous idea we have to have light 24 hours a day
We could build interconnects to Greece and Protugal who have lots of sun and get electricity from them in the morning (Greece) and in the evening (Portugal).
@@dickmartino9933 it's about 1000 miles between time zones so we would need some kind of superconducting Power Transmission to power an entire country from thousands of miles away during the night but it must be possible
@@phildobson8705 China has a very high voltage direct current option which is efficient. Others are being considered or constructed.
Daylight Savings should be removed , be Standard US Time all the Time.
@@markplott4820 because of its latitude UK has much longer days in the summer and much shorter days in the winter. In the winter it's dark when you drive to work and dark when you drive home and that's with 12 set for natural highest peak of the sun. In the summer it gets light at 3 a.m. but nobody is going to get up there early so we called 3 a.m. 4 am. People often liked be in bed till 7 a.m. so we call 6 a.m. 7 a.m. and they are all happy. This way it stays light till 10 p.m. saving a fortune in lighting
All the money and time spent on wind and solar would be much better used to develop Thorium nuclear energy....clean and safe....much better energy source than all the crazy wind turbines that require so much land space and only provide sporadic energy. We need an energy system that can provide clean and steady energy that doesn’t require expensive and dirty gigantic storage batteries....Nuclear, when used correctly, is nothing to be afraid of....think of all the happy birds we would save !
Real Journalism: ua-cam.com/video/vea9d7slJ0M/v-deo.html
I was trying to follow the process of energy storage with liquified air but lost it when the guy explaining the liquid air > energy process said "we take that liquid, we pump it to a high pressure...". 13:40 This is nonsense as you can't compress a liquid (at least not very much). I guess they're keeping their secrets but I wish they'd just say that instead of dishing out mumbo-jumbo psuedoscience to people who are trying to learn.
I think that the tank would have to be a high pressure tank because unless they maintained the nitrogen at that temperature, it would try really really hard to blow up. So to contain the explosion without maintaining the nitrogen as a liquid, it would need to be kept in a severely pressurized container.
Basically it is either temperature or pressure that needs to be maintained and it would take less energy to maintain the pressure. That is my guess.
The low pressure tank is for bulk storage. The high pressure tank is were the liquid nitrogen is heated to make high pressure nitrogen gas.
@@JP-zp5ic That makes perfect sense and it's what I theorised myself. However it's not what the guy running the show said.
Just because you don't understand what he is talking about, does not make it pseudoscience. I admit I could not follow him either because he talks fast and uses words beyond me. But I can listen, pause the video and go learn more (we are on the internet after all). I suggest we all do that instead of jumping to conclusions.
@@martythemartian99 You misunderstand I *am* a scientist and the words aren't beyond me - they are simply nonsensical from a scientific standpoint. No matter how wonderful the internet is researching nonsense only gives back more nonsense.
New was of storage = me no longer needing to be hooked up to the grid. After that I lose all interest in the national conversation for industrial solutions to what really is a building by building issue.
Nope. Bad idea.
The vehicle to grid concept does not make any sense whatsoever!
Its just another thought bubble in the list of glorious futures that never eventuate. Everything is so simple, so doable but always coming, imminent or just around the corner
Grid storage in Li-ion batteries is probably the stupidest thing ever thought of. Yes Australians installed it, not because it was a good idea, but because they had buggered up their grid to the point of being unable to provide reliable service. A very expensive band aid, rumor is it cost 66 million USD. 30k homes for an hour, what do you do when you need to supply power to 30M people for an entire windless night, have 12000 of these giant batteries at ready? While I'm sure Tesla would love to sell you all the batteries they can make, it's not a realistic solution, not least because they are not even capable of making over half a trillion worth of batteries.
No matter what some try to sell you, total changeover to wind and solar is not a realistic option and probably never will be. You can use more wind and solar, which certainly makes sense if your alternative is coal, but you can't switch over entirely and still keep a reliable grid service. You'll get power as weather permits and that's that. You can keep spare baseload to cover for wind and solar, but let's face it, keeping a power station operational while refusing to use it is just stupid and inefficient. No, the key to more wind and solar is not on the supply side, you got to make the demand more flexible. First, if you haven't already, switch to LED lighting. It's a no brainer, less power you use, less of a problem there is.
Secondly, what is needed is a method to regulate demand according to available supply. Right now there is really only one way to do so and that's rolling blackouts. Clearly, that's less than satisfactory. The grid needs a way to turn off your non-essential demands when required. Air conditioning, washing machines, dim your lights, electric car charging, that last one will be a big one in the future.
That's a lot of compromises to make as a consumer, but if we want more wind and solar, then that's what we'll need, it's that or live with rolling blackouts. Or you could go the French route and build a ton of nuclear stations. Or you could go Trump route and pretend that coal is clean, if you repeat it enough maybe you will even start believing it yourself.
There are no free lunches or magic bullets in engineering, everything is a compromise.
Cold air storage.. trouble is the amount of electricity needed to do the chilling would be huge and the bigger the system the bigger the electricity would need to power this cold air system! Bad system then because the power needed to run and store the cold air outweighs the power got back? Plus liquid Nitrogen very dangerous indeed.. only needs a loony anti-eco nut or crash of a car into the tanks and boom lots of killed animals and people frozen solid and broken into pieces! Remember if you have only a small amount of liquid Nitrogen go over any living organic matter for a few seconds you freeze it to death. Better sticking to battery storage system as they go wrong you all live.
The comment below: I've not heard of this country. Obviously you watch too many films and, thus, do not live in the real world.
Make that 80% to 85% of power plants waste the energy they produce! Our current energy transportations system is just plain DUMB! It was never meant to be a long distance portal,! We need micro energy production generators!
Vehicle to Grid is a Stupid idea, and should only be used in Emergency's. and only for your or Someone else home.
HOME solar and wind should be used for powering the Grid at Peak Times but ONLY after your HOME battery or POWERWALL is FULLY charged first. then Release the Electrons to help stabilize the Grid.
Totally agree. V2G is born dead. It's not commercially viable option ever.
The batteries only last 12 years or so. Complete and utter waste of time!
100% renewables here we come through high insulation, high efficiency and connecting to wind and solar with Tesla batteries and electric vehicles. Heating with thermal mass electric radiant floors. Let's go!
sorry to say but world 86% of primary energy comes from fossil fuels till now. its not easy as you are thinking.
Don’t store power just produce alternative energy and put it on the grid. Think of solar there’s always sun somewhere in the world. This means connect every country together.
This is in the works too. But there are losses too. I know that in transmission today over actual distances over 2% is lost. There is more, but I mention only the loss during long distance transmission. So since the distance will be a lot more, the losses will be more than 10 percent, and this they are working for higher tension.
You couldn't do that even with HVDC lines of the highest voltages. You just can't transmit electricity that far.
@@martinsoos oh, the math is done, the variables are accounted. and actually the lines were done here and there en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-high-voltage_electricity_transmission_in_China, but is a matter of costs.
And I was answering to Jasmine. There is solar somewhere in the world, but sending it ten or twenty thousands kilometers, even with ultrahigh voltage may cost more than storing. Recently I saw lithium storage for 50 usd per kwh. So, lines have competition. Rest assured, someone somewhere is doing the math :)
So who else find those transitions annoying?
Batteries of any type would be far simpler and easy to maintain.
THE ENERGY company Tesla...that makes cars.......
hm? They have a mega factory that manufactures a huge amounts of batteries. For cars, the powerwall and those big batteries for grid storage.
Not first ..
"Bottled lighning" is one of the dumbes things you could describe it as. And what kind of students are you teaching when you need to use things like that? Elementary school?
Vehichle to grid doesnt work cause your battery isnt designed to charge and discharge so many times. It will die super super fast.
Wrong read my other posts I can't be bothered to repeat them
These transitions suck so bad! Pretty much a torture! Stop using them! They ruin this great doc