The idler moves the chain forces under load from In between the upper and lower stay to the upper stay only. Reducing the impact of chain tension (upper part of the chain only) from the suspension. Effectively isolating chain forces from suspension performance. VPP and DW link have been doing this for years in a virtual way compared to the idler. Steve Peat used to say you wanted a certain amount of pedal kickback under heavy braking to allow the rear end to Jack into the ground, only really applies to a Dh bike though as you don't pedal it up a hill. The other solution is the cranks some Dh racers are using with adjustable float.
Oi m8! You know what!? I would love to se you go for some strava runs, K.O.M Hunting on some of the gnarlier tracks you guys got over there!! With some indeepth thoughts of how you approach features to get the most speed coming out of said feature! Love you’re content Stay shreddy and wish you the best year racing yet!! Pz
Lewis , is hig pivot bikes the same like having a non high pivot with a O ring fitted to the chainring. High pivot bikes look more sik and aggressive. Thanks for explaining in depth buddy, thanks Ross 🤘🤘
With high pivot on the norco I noticed the derailleur cage moves far more than the standard pivot bikes. I wonder how this would translate in terms of the longevity of the derailleur.
Hey Lew, might help your explanation if you take the chain off the idler pulley, leaving it on the chain ring and cassette, compress the suspension and see the kickback
Sick bike. Looking at a sight for my next bike as I don’t think I have steep enough terrain for the range. Was the sight quite linear with the coil or did the bike handle it ok? Did you over stroke the coil? Cheers.
Have you had a chance to try an O-chain yet? I'd be interested to hear a comparison. My guess would be the high pivot wins due to the back wheel action over edges and instant engagement, but it's an interesting concept for retrofitting bikes without high pivot to have no pedal kick.
Great video explaining the reason Ning behind the high pivot design. Has it been long enough for you to comment on how the Range feels compared to your previous year’s bike?
It's not the high pivot that gives you no chain growth though, it's the lack of anti squat, you can have that with no idler pulley, but you can't have a high pivot with no idler pulley, the whole idea of high pivot is "rearward axle movement" For an example of a non high pivot bike with no pedal kickback look at Propain Rage (there are probably many others) it's just a design choice.
Just in general, I get notified of your vids but by the time i get around to watching them they are often deleted, any reason you dont leave up longer? Also, any disadvantages to higher pivot?
Sometimes they are just scheduled for any time and I forget to schedule them for the specific time I want and they go live when I don’t want them too, honesty no disadvantages from my time in it
Thanks dude! Not really, I just try keep it the same throughout every bike I have had regarding feel to the suspension. Running it much faster though than I use too
And one more important thing is that when the rear wheel hits an obstacle, the front triangle moves forward, and so does your center of gravity. This is very important because it is already over the obstacle when the rear wheel gets there, so there is less loss of balance, we can go faster 😉
How are they at tight turns and wheelies/popping the front over obstacles? A growing rear making it longer wouldn't be ideal in theory. And how's it go for mashing the pedals out of the saddle?
@@LewisBuchanan How does it feel, after riding bikes for years where wheel base of bike actually shortens? Due to fork moving back! What is wheel base of bike on sag & full travel, does it actually lengthen?
If it ever gets available it will be in a long time I think. Norco might be getting Tredz to do a better job than Evans did with the brand. But even if that happens, im sure it will be ages until they get Range’s.
Also this Design is actually a different look on how to go fast, "Technically" the rearward path actually creates rearward energy but in the proccess lengthens the bike and having it lengthen is actually what's going on and the "myth saying" of the wheel gets out of the way isnt actually correct, just dumbed down for the arm chair engineers on pinkbike. Everyone understands what a longer bike does vs a short one in stability and this platform allows for both to be achieved on the one design making Chainstay length extremely important along with leverage ratio.
Luis Arraiz was pushing the idler waaaay back, I almost bought a K9 DH001 from him at fort bill around 2010 but his skills as a salesman didn't match his brilliance as an engineer
Norco didnt “ solve this “ they borrowed the tech from dh bikes , just like forbidden , commencal, and deviate …. The tech has been around for a while lol … but your description on how it works is good
Fantastic vid! My lad’s moving towards this system - maybe a Norco - for his fist bike upgrade since he was 15 about 10yrs ago. And he’s making this choice because of the rearward travel and the lack of kickback. It’s all very well some saying the kickback can help (somebody’s mentioned Peaty 🤣). But, seriously, how many of us are strong enough that kickback can be used to increase our control by using sheer leg-grunt for increasing the weight on the tyre lugs for more grip during the kickback? My lad for one says he isn’t and he’s quick pointing down. Doddy commented on something I hadn’t spotted: apparently there’s a split developing in Pro Enduro riding style with one group taking on heavier everything to use a more DH style and the other staying with lighter more agile rigs for a little less ‘plowing’. Why would a heavy DH style setup be any good at all for a fast time (and NO, I do know nobody’s using double crown in pro enduro racing🙄)? Well his theory was that it’s due to the liaison stages being shorter and less hilly. It would be easy to say a high pivot bike with a slightly lighter build would suit the second group still using a classic enduro style rather well. I don’t race, so I’d be interested in your opinion Lewis 😊
The idler moves the chain forces under load from In between the upper and lower stay to the upper stay only. Reducing the impact of chain tension (upper part of the chain only) from the suspension. Effectively isolating chain forces from suspension performance. VPP and DW link have been doing this for years in a virtual way compared to the idler. Steve Peat used to say you wanted a certain amount of pedal kickback under heavy braking to allow the rear end to Jack into the ground, only really applies to a Dh bike though as you don't pedal it up a hill.
The other solution is the cranks some Dh racers are using with adjustable float.
Ochain active spider
Oi m8!
You know what!? I would love to se you go for some strava runs, K.O.M Hunting on some of the gnarlier tracks you guys got over there!! With some indeepth thoughts of how you approach features to get the most speed coming out of said feature!
Love you’re content
Stay shreddy and wish you the best year racing yet!!
Pz
As long as my chain don't drop off that's all I really care about as a non pro
👌🏽
Do some of you videos disappear from You tube? I commented on the Glencoe one and you replied but the video seems now to have gone.
you explaiend it in a way i've never heards before, and for the first time ever, i understand it now
👌🏽
True 😃👍
👏🏽
Wow, that's quite a difference there. Makes me feel like changing my bike. I didn't realize the difference was so apparent.
👌🏽👌🏽
Lewis , is hig pivot bikes the same like having a non high pivot with a O ring fitted to the chainring. High pivot bikes look more sik and aggressive. Thanks for explaining in depth buddy, thanks Ross 🤘🤘
Love the videos dude, quick question - whys the clutch creaking like that? The clutch on my Jekyll 2 is making the same noise.
With high pivot on the norco I noticed the derailleur cage moves far more than the standard pivot bikes. I wonder how this would translate in terms of the longevity of the derailleur.
Good point! So far so good
Hey Lew, might help your explanation if you take the chain off the idler pulley, leaving it on the chain ring and cassette, compress the suspension and see the kickback
Thanks for the heads up! I think it still show it though
Sick bike. Looking at a sight for my next bike as I don’t think I have steep enough terrain for the range. Was the sight quite linear with the coil or did the bike handle it ok? Did you over stroke the coil? Cheers.
Thanks! Sight is an amazing bike! I’ll be doing a bit of a comparison soon! But yes the sight with coil works very very well!
Are you happy with the mrp chainguide?
Have you had a chance to try an O-chain yet? I'd be interested to hear a comparison. My guess would be the high pivot wins due to the back wheel action over edges and instant engagement, but it's an interesting concept for retrofitting bikes without high pivot to have no pedal kick.
Great video explaining the reason Ning behind the high pivot design. Has it been long enough for you to comment on how the Range feels compared to your previous year’s bike?
whats the brake jack like with that design?
How much weight does this system add? What does this bike weigh?
It's not the high pivot that gives you no chain growth though, it's the lack of anti squat, you can have that with no idler pulley, but you can't have a high pivot with no idler pulley, the whole idea of high pivot is "rearward axle movement"
For an example of a non high pivot bike with no pedal kickback look at Propain Rage (there are probably many others) it's just a design choice.
You can see how mutch the bike lengthens when he holds the back wheel and squashes the front wheel rolls forward quite a bit
Hell yeah!
@@LewisBuchanan i am going up a gondola in fort willam with my nukeproof giga rn lol
Nice enjoy haha
Saw it by the rear derailleur. The chain growth.
Great vid mate!
Thanks
What’s the difference between forbidden bike and this new norco range?
A lot! But drag up the geo for both n have a look. They honestly ride so different! I prefer the range overall for sure 😊
Who is the UK distributor for Norco Lewis?
Just in general without saying which is better, could you give a quick list of the differences between the Forbidden Dreadnought and the new Range?
New range feels like less bike, not as long feeling, feels like I am in control of it rather than the bike being in control of me.
The norco has a high headtube measurement.
How long must be the headtube of the fork be to fit an L model?
Cheers
Just in general, I get notified of your vids but by the time i get around to watching them they are often deleted, any reason you dont leave up longer? Also, any disadvantages to higher pivot?
you have to use an idler pulley. more friction in pedalling and noise especially at the top and bottom end of the cassette
Sometimes they are just scheduled for any time and I forget to schedule them for the specific time I want and they go live when I don’t want them too, honesty no disadvantages from my time in it
nice one mate keep it up 👍does having the idler make any difference to how you set up your suspension - damping etc?
Thanks dude! Not really, I just try keep it the same throughout every bike I have had regarding feel to the suspension. Running it much faster though than I use too
@@LewisBuchanan interesting, yeah that makes sense I guess having less kick back lets you deal with quicker rebound more easily
And one more important thing is that when the rear wheel hits an obstacle, the front triangle moves forward, and so does your center of gravity. This is very important because it is already over the obstacle when the rear wheel gets there, so there is less loss of balance, we can go faster 😉
💪🏼
Finally understand, thanks!
Pleasure
Any videos on tyre choice for Glentress.. lol. Riding it in September and want the right tyres on.
Maxxis dhf front and rear or maxxis assegai works great
@@LewisBuchanan thank for the reply, love your videos. Maxxgrip DH casing or would they be too heavy.
Thanks so much! Dh casing is more puncture resistant so maybe better to go for that!
How are they at tight turns and wheelies/popping the front over obstacles? A growing rear making it longer wouldn't be ideal in theory.
And how's it go for mashing the pedals out of the saddle?
Feels good all in all to me!
@@LewisBuchanan How does it feel, after riding bikes for years where wheel base of bike actually shortens? Due to fork moving back!
What is wheel base of bike on sag & full travel, does it actually lengthen?
How’s the noise from the rear of the bike? I have a C1 ordered. I watched the review on Freehub magazine channel and is sounded quite loud?
It’s somewhat noisey but nothing crazy. It’s just a hollow frame
@@LewisBuchanan okay cool, so no tube in tube cable routing?
None from what I hear when riding
@@LewisBuchanan All good thanks mate
I think it would be sick if you did a raw edit on the range
👏🏽👏🏽
Nice! What chain ring are you running?
Unite components 34t
I'm thinking of getting an onyx SC just wondering what your thoughts on it are compared to other high end forks
Honestly on par if not better. Plenty of adjustment and I love the OTT adjuster for suppleness and that sensitivity! I love them
@@LewisBuchanan yeah I think I'll go for it all I hear is good things thanks
Hell yeah! Awesome! Cheers
Where is the range available in the uk? Thanks for the video
If it ever gets available it will be in a long time I think. Norco might be getting Tredz to do a better job than Evans did with the brand. But even if that happens, im sure it will be ages until they get Range’s.
Hi what is the model of the second black norco?
Norco sight
Can you run the new range as a mullet?
Nope
Damn!
How do you find it pedals vs a non high pivot is there a noticeable increase in drag ??
No drag, it’s pretty amazing to be honest
@@LewisBuchanan will have to have a go on one good luck at hamsterley 👍🏻
Also this Design is actually a different look on how to go fast, "Technically" the rearward path actually creates rearward energy but in the proccess lengthens the bike and having it lengthen is actually what's going on and the "myth saying" of the wheel gets out of the way isnt actually correct, just dumbed down for the arm chair engineers on pinkbike.
Everyone understands what a longer bike does vs a short one in stability and this platform allows for both to be achieved on the one design making Chainstay length extremely important along with leverage ratio.
what bar width are you running?
750mm!
Luis Arraiz was pushing the idler waaaay back, I almost bought a K9 DH001 from him at fort bill around 2010 but his skills as a salesman didn't match his brilliance as an engineer
Can i install that pulley in my full sus bike ?
Norco didnt “ solve this “ they borrowed the tech from dh bikes , just like forbidden , commencal, and deviate …. The tech has been around for a while lol … but your description on how it works is good
you r puttin' your whole weight on a link D:
Fantastic vid! My lad’s moving towards this system - maybe a Norco - for his fist bike upgrade since he was 15 about 10yrs ago. And he’s making this choice because of the rearward travel and the lack of kickback. It’s all very well some saying the kickback can help (somebody’s mentioned Peaty 🤣). But, seriously, how many of us are strong enough that kickback can be used to increase our control by using sheer leg-grunt for increasing the weight on the tyre lugs for more grip during the kickback? My lad for one says he isn’t and he’s quick pointing down.
Doddy commented on something I hadn’t spotted: apparently there’s a split developing in Pro Enduro riding style with one group taking on heavier everything to use a more DH style and the other staying with lighter more agile rigs for a little less ‘plowing’. Why would a heavy DH style setup be any good at all for a fast time (and NO, I do know nobody’s using double crown in pro enduro racing🙄)? Well his theory was that it’s due to the liaison stages being shorter and less hilly. It would be easy to say a high pivot bike with a slightly lighter build would suit the second group still using a classic enduro style rather well.
I don’t race, so I’d be interested in your opinion Lewis 😊
Sick
💪🏼
hmmm yeah that's why a yeti and a canyon won ews
I didn’t say it would 100% guarantee win you a race though did I? 😊
@@LewisBuchanan true true, I like the concept but why fix something that isn't broken?
I can see why it works but I it a bit of a gymmik. Extra unnecessary weight and more moving part to maintain and have issue with.
damn
💪🏼
Early gang
Yewww
First!
Yeww