Note for everyone here. Tod is an expert who knows what he's doing. Unless you're an expert like him do not shoot wooden arrows out of a modern crossbow. Tods arrow has a reinforced nock point and it undoubtedly very high quality. An arrow without the reinforced nock point runs the risk of splitting up the nock and sending broken arrow shards up your forearm. Not to mention his warbow arrow likely has much more mass than your average wooden target arrow to soak up some of that energy. Plenty of real life examples of people shooting wooden arrows out of modern compound bows and ending up in the emergency room (including my father). Please be careful before you replicate what he's doing here.
Timothy is absolutely right. The likelihood of injury by a person using the wrong gear is high. Modern crossbows are made for modern bolts; tossing any old wooden arrow on their will likely lead to catastrophic failure. If lucky, just a broken crossbow.
My thoughts exactly. It's fun sometimes to just unload whatever power you have at your fingertips into whatever target using whatever ammo you have. In other words, it's just fun to shoot stuff.
I hear you. I have a 45# Bear Montana longbow. I could go higher right away but I can shoot my bow well and all afternoon without busting a gut. I don't hunt but if I did I believe it is enough to get the job done. I am in awe of those who can shoot 100 lbs + bows and shoot them well. Joe Gibbs is in another realm altogether.
how many people can draw a 120+ pound longbow once? let alone the tens or hundreds of times Tod needed it for testing. can't be more than just a couple of people
@@SanosukeTanaka It's totally sensible and understandable. Like I said, I could draw a bigger bow than my 45 lbs bow but I'd be rubbish with it. All I can say is that I'm in awe of those who can properly shoot 100 lbs + bows. Tod's solution is perfect for his testing.
6:16 "I've decided that this is going to be fun." I'm sure you weren't intending it, but this little sentence struck me as profound. Making the choice that your life is going to be experienced as fun. That IS a choice we can make: how we personally experience things. What lens we view them through. Even things that have yet to happen. Imagine waking up each day and immediately saying "I'm deciding that this day is going to be fun." Maybe I'm just in a contemplative mood, but that really stuck with me. I need to do it.
Another one to live by, happiness is found in all of the small things in life. It's great to do great and big things but for most of us those are few and far between. Find pleasure in the small things in life and you'll be happy. Always remember to count your blessings too. Love to you all.
Really looking forward to this. I would love to see what the crossover point is for the poundage of the bow to get through the different types of armor, like, minimum 100 pound bow to get through the gambeson? less? More?
Hi Shad, This series is being self funded, just for the hell of it and so I am happy to make a series of films whilst the arrows live but they will start to die during the course of filming and at the "mates rate" of £25 a piece there is only so much testing I can do. For this reason I have started with the low attrition tests and will move onto plate etc later so I can kill the arrows on that and then finally - game over. If I have left overs then yes I can come back to this. In a more general sense though a 100lbs bow will be around half the energy I would think of a 160lbs and a little more than the flexible armour test I did with a crossbow a few months back, so my expectation is that a needle bodkin off a 100lbs will go deep enough to wound, but unlikely to pass right through.
@@tods_workshop I'm sure you could crowd-fund a series of experiments, much like C&Rsenal+Forgotten Weapons did "Project Lightening" about WW1 light machine guns. Experiments like that are exactly what this community wants to see.
For shields: a construction replica of the Black Prince's shield at Canterbury or the like; a linen canvas covered-leather embossed-gessoed poplar-board shield would be nice to see shot at.
@@tods_workshop I'd be interested to see how modern armour can stand up in these tests too, if you're able to source some without getting put on a watch list. Don't want the daily fail going after you like they tried with Joerg...
Today was almost as excited as the people in that send a cake add with the fake butterflies flying around. ( don't act like you haven't seen that add on UA-cam)
also, something that i feel a lot of testers miss but i think is super important for a real life analogue is the “give” of a real human vs a static heavy target. both the body will carry some innertia backwards qnd disperse it as well as the fleshy nature of the human body. something without some give to it will make the arrow in question more penetrative then it would otherwise.
By using the repeatable accuracy of the crossbow, Todd will be able to target the thinner areas of plate at varying distances. We know an arrow won’t go through the front of a breastplate or helmet (ignoring armour quality for the moment), but it gives the opportunity to target the 1mm thickness of armour on the backs of the legs and arms, etc. Can’t wait!
As someone who shoots longbows you have my seal of approval! It shoots the right arrows at the right weight with the right amount of power, and can we add more consistantly? We are not here to talk about the science of the bow, we are talking about the science of the arrow- the method of delivery is irrelevant.
Given the rate of fire of a crossbow that can deliver the same penetrative power as a longbow it would take several crossbows to replace one Joe Gibbs.
@@Steve_Coates On the flipside, a crossbow is much faster to learn to shoot, so you could likely afford to have several of them instead of one highly trained longbowman.
@@siegekeebs indeed - there's only one Joe Gibbs, the rest is camera trickery! That's why the English law was for every man to practise every week on the common - to be ready for war. The French simply hired crossbowmen.
@@Steve_Coates Thanks to Andreas Bichler, we know at least cranequin-spanned horn crossbows could deliver around 200 J at 70 m/s under good conditions (cold & dry). & the crossbow in question only weighs 3.5 kg; some surviving 15th-century horn crossbows are bigger. The yew warbow certainly still wins in total energy output per minute, but each shot from such a crossbow is significantly more powerful (about +50% compared with that 160lb yew warbow).
I really hope that there are some high end academics out there who are actually using your videos for serious research. The level of effort you put into your testing deserves recognition
@@tods_workshop and it's your interest that helps us develop a further knowledge and deeper appreciation of it. I cannot wait for more videos on the topic, i just simply hope you are recognised for your advancement of our understanding on the topic in an "official" capacity. Need to get you some honourary degrees or something from a lot of prestigious universities
This *is* high end academia (it's performing experiments that require a serious amount of investment and preparation), and this *is* serious research (appropriately controlled, measured, reported and reproducible).
@@tods_workshop But really, I think this kind of research could benefit a lot official research too. As they are doing in stone age archeology, researchers could learn and test a lot of theories and historical analysis based on field tests!
@@andrewmartin3671 Still, there is the need to collect the data, publish them, make them visible and recognized by other researchers, as well as cross-correlate them with other tester/researchers. Otherwise it remains a test, not a research :) I am not saying it is not valid, only that in the scientific/academic world there must be a shared consensus for the idea or the theory to be acceptable and accepted. One man opinion is just an opinion (or a test) and it becomes a solid theory when it is reproduced, shared and confirmed
Tod it's awesome to see you so energized and enthusiastic, especially when the news is filled with depressing things. Thanks for being a beacon of positive and encouraging things! Love your channel.
187.8 fps = 57.21 m/s 187.1 fps = 57.02 m/s 0.5 * 0.081 * 57.21^2 = 132.55 Joule 0.5 * 0.081 * 57.02^2 = 131.67 Joule Momentum: 4.63401 and 4.61862 It's probably just under 57 m/s on impact because of the range. 0.5 * 0.081 * 56.5^2 = 129.28 Joule
@@eirikronaldfossheim So roughly in line with a 150lb bow then it seems, a bit less than Joe was shooting in the armour penetration video but still a damn heavy impact.
@@ad3z10 Yes, about the same as what Joe did with 63 gram and 75 gram arrows and 145-160 lb bows at point blank range. The arrows in the ARROWS vs Armour Medieval Myth Busting film were around 80-85 gram (I have screenshots) and had a speed of 55.686 m/s at 10 meters and 52.1 m/s at 25 meters. That's 124.04 and 108.576 Joule respectively if the arrows were 80 grams. It's 131.789 Joule and 115.362 Joule if the arrows were closer to 85 grams. That will give us about 57.8 m/s at 1 meter because the drop in speed is approximately 0.239066 m/s per meter. It's just about the same as Tod's crossbow. He's just a tad slower, about 0.6-0.8 m/s. And taken into account that Joe's 160 lb bow shot a 75 gram arrow at 60.8 m/s at 1 meter and it hit with 138.65 Joule, the arrows were probably closer to 85 grams than 80 grams. If the arrows were 80 grams and left the bow at 57.8 m/s, it's only 133.63 Joule, and that doesn't make sense. It should be higher than 138.65 Joule. If the arrows were 85 gram the kinetic energy at 1 meter should be 142 Joule when the speed was 57.8 m/s. That's more in line with what the results should be. 5 grams matter a lot. (I have the screenshots of the arrowsmith telling us on FB the arrows were 80-85 grams.)
Love this idea of this Todd, just watching you get all excited over this this is so joyful, love your job, and never work again because you are enjoying what you do, more people should strive for this.
Watching you shoot the chronograph, and talking about crunching the numbers, made me think of Paul Harrell. He shoots a lot of guns with a wide variety of ammunition. Look up his videos on UA-cam. He has a great formula for a "meat target" that can be used to simulate a human or animal torso.
@Crawling Chaos he was making a joke, Paul prefers not to make conclusions on his channel, he shows you his testing, his results, asks the questions, and closes with "you be the judge"
great! At last a proper serious test involving people that really knows what they are doing and not just using target tips and cheap plates for their tests. Thanks Tod, you and your team are incredible!
Please put this argument to rest: - "Should mail be warn above or below the gambeson?" (Their are historical evidence for both). This is the perfect tool for it.
That's a brilliant idea! It's probably more consistent than an actual longbow, so for tests it's arguably better than an actual longbow. I'm excited to see the following videos
love the elaborate intro and how it all crumbled away in the split second the arrow needed to pierce the linen to give way to child-like wonder! Thats what its all about.
Brilliant idea. I was thinking if the arrows from the crossbow might have meaningfully less wobble than longbow arrows, and wether or not that would make a difference. Might be testable with your 90lb longbow and an equivalent crossbow in terms of velocity. Cheers
That would be an interesting comparison. A longbow shot through a chronograph at a target, but the target being filmed on an ultra high frame rate camera in front of a scale so you could measure velocity at impact and compare it to velocity at release... then make the same shot with a crossbow calibrated for equivalent release velocity.
I agree, but not just with velocity but also the force of the impact, the force will be much higher if the shaft is in line with the point. From a longbow the arrow leaves the bow oscillating and continues to do so up to the target although slowly reducing. When the oscillating arrow impacts the target the shaft is unlikely to be behind the point and a lot of the energy goes into bending the shaft. However, with a crossbow, the oscillations in the arrow will be much less if not eliminated and thus the shaft is likely to be behind the point (assuming no significant cross wind) resulting in a much higher energy being imparted into the target. I'm not certain as to how much the arrows oscillate from crossbows but I expect this will have a significant difference as to the penetration of the arrows from different bow types.
2:13 I was literally expecting you to say, "This is what I've come up with, let me show you its features. Ha-ha-ha!" I think I watch too much slingshot channel...
This seems like a highly practical way to test things. For the sake of accuracy I do have to mention: you really need some ballistic gel underneath the armour as part of your target. The effect of the gambeson was likely lowered because of the inflexible way it was mounted, and mounting it on a block of gel would mitigate that. Im not sure it would have made a difference in that case, but you never know, and that's why it's important. Keep up the good work
In this case I personally would say "the end justifies the means" so use what you have to. Really looking forward to those videos :-) Thanks for that Tod and best of luck to you.
Nice. To be accurate: be sure to not pin it flat against a wall/hard target. A person, granted they're not running into the shot full speed, will likely have a bite more give to absorb the power. Usually Balistig gel is used.
A dummy mounted on a semi-flexible pole may work for crude approximations; if more accuracy for measurement is required, perhaps a tethered hanging dummy with some side-to-side movement allowed?
If you convert grams to grains, you have a 1250 grain projectile traveling at 187 ft/s. That’s about 97 ft lbs of energy, or about as much as a medium to high velocity .22 long rifle caliber bullet. I suspect a .22 would perform rather comparably.
@@bozo5632 do they? That sounds like a great thing to test! And if they're more effective against faster projectiles, could the "longbow" provide enough speed to "activate" the Kevlar?
@@ScottKenny1978 Any idea what kind of velocity is required? Or what kind of arrow point would work best? The most I can draw is about 67-70 pounds, depending on if I can overdraw a little bit, and I have some heads that are "supposed" to be target heads, but they're almost like a hollow ground javelin point. I'm not at all planning on "needing" to defeat 3-A body armor with my recurve, but it's at least good to know.
@@mtgAzim I don't know an actual speed, but any hunting weight bow should be able to do the job. Those "hollow ground javelin heads" would be your best bet.
I love your excitement Tod, I can't wait to see what tests you come up with in the next few weeks! It would also be great if you could replicate the exact tests you did with Joe with your crossbow just to see if there is any difference
Putting wooden bow arms under the constant stress of being at max draw is not great for longevity or reliability and is nonetheless very dangerous in the event of a failure.
Last minute is Tod version of a kid in a candy store. He's so excited. Besides that, its more about the arrow and the armour. Good science is getting rid of variables and as much as we appreciate Joe Gibbs, his shooting is a variable.
Tod, your videos make my day, man. I only wish I had your skill, knowledge, and the opportunity to do these things. I'm living vicariously through you.
I do love armour and shield tests, this is gonna be good. What goes through what, what just gets slowed down, what gets stopped dead, will Tod clean his bit of maille up for the test? So many questions, can't wait.
I absolutely love your enthusiasm! I can see it on your face you are really enjoying this! And so am I. That arrow might have gotten through the gambeson because there was little give, as a human on two legs would!
Great idea, I look forward to the next videos, but I think it would be very interesting if in addition to the bow arrows you also tried to shoot a war crossbow from the same historical period, to see if there are differences
I hope you do the same concept with a movable target to represent how much the arrow might push someone back! That was part of the brilliancy of your Medieval Myth Busting: Arrows vs. Armor series
Of all the people in the known universe that we want to get a sudden burst of manic happy cabin fever enthusiasm, Tod is definitely a contender for the championship belt! Go get ém, Tod! The world needs to see enthusiasm and happy things now. More than ever.
Awesome demonstration! I was amazed that that arrow made it through too! I shoot longbows of 55lbw and 75 lbw at targets, 100lbw and 140lbw at roving shoots. My biggest warbow arrows are 97 gram ash and almost topple the boss!
You seems sooo enthusiastic for all these test at the end it was too cute xD You are an amazing content creator and artisan, keep up what you are doing it’s awesome! ^^
I'm looking forward to seeing these tests! I've watched a number of your videos in the past, but just subscribing now so I don't miss them. I think its a great idea to use a crossbow for this, when doing scientific testing it is important to eliminate as many variables as possible, such as the archer pulling back slightly different distances and having slightly different draw weights for every shot. Once the arrow is in the air and at the right velocity it doesn't matter if it was fired from a bow, crossbow, or even air cannon. For those curious, a 80g arrow at 188 ft/s is ~130 joules. To put this in comparison a hockey puck shot at 89 MPH has 130 joules, a baseball thrown at 94 MPH has 130 joules, and a tiny .22LR round has about 160 joules. So the actual energy behind this arrow is really not as much as you would think, considering the size and weight of the bow (especially the bows that Joe Gibbs shoots). What makes them dangerous is all of that energy is concentrated into the small sharp metal point at the tip.
What makes arrows dangerous is their momentum (Mass * Velocity). How long does it take a train to stop from even 10kph? Several hundred meters. While a car at 100kph with the same kinetic energy can stop in less than 50m.
@@ScottKenny1978 Yes and no. Their momentum or kinetic energy alone isn't super dangerous. As I said in the first post, that arrow he shot has the same kinetic energy as a hockey puck or fast ball in baseball. Neither of those regularly kill people, but they might bruise or break a bone if it hits you without padding. If you took that same arrow and put a 3 inch foam tip on it, the momentum and kinetic energy would be the same, but it would be less dangerous. Why? Because the energy is not concentrated into a single small hard point.
Note for everyone here. Tod is an expert who knows what he's doing. Unless you're an expert like him do not shoot wooden arrows out of a modern crossbow. Tods arrow has a reinforced nock point and it undoubtedly very high quality. An arrow without the reinforced nock point runs the risk of splitting up the nock and sending broken arrow shards up your forearm. Not to mention his warbow arrow likely has much more mass than your average wooden target arrow to soak up some of that energy. Plenty of real life examples of people shooting wooden arrows out of modern compound bows and ending up in the emergency room (including my father). Please be careful before you replicate what he's doing here.
A very good point - thank you
I believe PSE make arrow-length bolts out of aluminium or carbon fiber, for use with their crossbow that fits on the lower receiver of an AR15.
Timothy is absolutely right. The likelihood of injury by a person using the wrong gear is high. Modern crossbows are made for modern bolts; tossing any old wooden arrow on their will likely lead to catastrophic failure. If lucky, just a broken crossbow.
@@carloscaro9121 The sad thing is this should be common sense, and yet it isn't.
Would and arrow reach a long distance without the archer paradox effect or is just the same?
I would like to nominate "Faux Gibbs" as the name for the lockdown longbow.
brilliant!
Seconded
Hear hear!!!!
YEES!
Or the Cross-Joe...
"I'm just going to shoot stuff, alright?" Yes. Yes that is very alright.
My thoughts exactly. It's fun sometimes to just unload whatever power you have at your fingertips into whatever target using whatever ammo you have. In other words, it's just fun to shoot stuff.
Tod's gone stir crazy...
Looking forward to it!
"I'm just not the man enough for it"
Me at my computer: same
I hear you. I have a 45# Bear Montana longbow. I could go higher right away but I can shoot my bow well and all afternoon without busting a gut. I don't hunt but if I did I believe it is enough to get the job done. I am in awe of those who can shoot 100 lbs + bows and shoot them well. Joe Gibbs is in another realm altogether.
how many people can draw a 120+ pound longbow once? let alone the tens or hundreds of times Tod needed it for testing. can't be more than just a couple of people
@@SanosukeTanaka It's totally sensible and understandable. Like I said, I could draw a bigger bow than my 45 lbs bow but I'd be rubbish with it. All I can say is that I'm in awe of those who can properly shoot 100 lbs + bows.
Tod's solution is perfect for his testing.
@@Stigstigster Same... I have a 55# long bow and I'm all "dude..... 95??? whatever."
Correct projectile + correct speed + repeatable =seince
I "c" something you missed.
Sainz
that's a stonks meme right there
Sighyence*
Are you all sure he didn't miss spell Seance and not Science, because this is gonna summon all kinds of things?
6:16 "I've decided that this is going to be fun."
I'm sure you weren't intending it, but this little sentence struck me as profound. Making the choice that your life is going to be experienced as fun. That IS a choice we can make: how we personally experience things. What lens we view them through. Even things that have yet to happen. Imagine waking up each day and immediately saying "I'm deciding that this day is going to be fun." Maybe I'm just in a contemplative mood, but that really stuck with me. I need to do it.
Nice thoughts - positive thoughts. Take this and try to live by it!
I wanted to comment with the same quote... Yes, it should be fun! Why wouldn't it?
More people should be saying it, I think too many people wake up and want to be outraged and offended every morning.
The Dutch say: One does not have time, one needs to make it." Same goes for fun..
Another one to live by, happiness is found in all of the small things in life. It's great to do great and big things but for most of us those are few and far between. Find pleasure in the small things in life and you'll be happy. Always remember to count your blessings too. Love to you all.
Really looking forward to this. I would love to see what the crossover point is for the poundage of the bow to get through the different types of armor, like, minimum 100 pound bow to get through the gambeson? less? More?
Same. A big chart of arrow weight, bow lbs, target distance, armor type, penetration depth.
Hi Shad,
This series is being self funded, just for the hell of it and so I am happy to make a series of films whilst the arrows live but they will start to die during the course of filming and at the "mates rate" of £25 a piece there is only so much testing I can do. For this reason I have started with the low attrition tests and will move onto plate etc later so I can kill the arrows on that and then finally - game over. If I have left overs then yes I can come back to this.
In a more general sense though a 100lbs bow will be around half the energy I would think of a 160lbs and a little more than the flexible armour test I did with a crossbow a few months back, so my expectation is that a needle bodkin off a 100lbs will go deep enough to wound, but unlikely to pass right through.
@@tods_workshop I'm sure you could crowd-fund a series of experiments, much like C&Rsenal+Forgotten Weapons did "Project Lightening" about WW1 light machine guns.
Experiments like that are exactly what this community wants to see.
@Shadiversity maybe you could sponsor some additional arrows for some sort of colab research.
Just add swords for extra resistance
For shields: a construction replica of the Black Prince's shield at Canterbury or the like; a linen canvas covered-leather embossed-gessoed poplar-board shield would be nice to see shot at.
And that is what you shall have sir!
@@tods_workshop looking forward to seeing it!
@@tods_workshop awesome, I liked the tests by thrand on his period Viking shield
Linnen and poplar, I still have two steam trunks made that way, sturdy but not arrow proof
@@tods_workshop I'd be interested to see how modern armour can stand up in these tests too, if you're able to source some without getting put on a watch list.
Don't want the daily fail going after you like they tried with Joerg...
Todd is so excited at the end. LOL. "I'm gonna go shot some stuff!" So excited.
My wife watched this and thought I had taken something - just a hi energy day I guess
Today was almost as excited as the people in that send a cake add with the fake butterflies flying around. ( don't act like you haven't seen that add on UA-cam)
That whole "it's gonna be fun... I'm gonna shoot stuff" bit at the end started to sound like a manifesto of some kind. Little bit worrying.
@@tods_workshop you're sure you're not stealing my president's meth? (sorry)
Reminded me of a little kid with a new toy. Just more proof that boys never really grow up, their toys just get more expensive.
"I'm not Joe Gibbs but I have the power"
I'm gonna put that on a shirt and wear it when shooting a crossbow
You should send a copy of the print to gibbs for fun.
Stick He-Man on there too.
I'd buy that.
Tod it's a good testing tool, being repeatable every time.
And mark the arrows for depth reading.
And probably even more consistent than you could ever do with an actual bow
also, something that i feel a lot of testers miss but i think is super important for a real life analogue is the “give” of a real human vs a static heavy target. both the body will carry some innertia backwards qnd disperse it as well as the fleshy nature of the human body. something without some give to it will make the arrow in question more penetrative then it would otherwise.
@@midshipman8654 Paul Harrel's meat target?
@@midshipman8654 @Dragos Coco maybe some Ballistic Gel? less messy and reusable
By using the repeatable accuracy of the crossbow, Todd will be able to target the thinner areas of plate at varying distances. We know an arrow won’t go through the front of a breastplate or helmet (ignoring armour quality for the moment), but it gives the opportunity to target the 1mm thickness of armour on the backs of the legs and arms, etc. Can’t wait!
"I've decided that this is going to be fun."
Hearing an Englishman say this, the french are getting concerned.
As someone who shoots longbows you have my seal of approval!
It shoots the right arrows at the right weight with the right amount of power, and can we add more consistantly?
We are not here to talk about the science of the bow, we are talking about the science of the arrow- the method of delivery is irrelevant.
You had a choice between physics and shooting. You made the right choice.
You just came to the same conclusion they did in medieval days - crossbows replace the need of having Joe Gibbs!
Given the rate of fire of a crossbow that can deliver the same penetrative power as a longbow it would take several crossbows to replace one Joe Gibbs.
@@Steve_Coates On the flipside, a crossbow is much faster to learn to shoot, so you could likely afford to have several of them instead of one highly trained longbowman.
@@Steve_Coates as always the trade-off
@@siegekeebs indeed - there's only one Joe Gibbs, the rest is camera trickery!
That's why the English law was for every man to practise every week on the common - to be ready for war. The French simply hired crossbowmen.
@@Steve_Coates Thanks to Andreas Bichler, we know at least cranequin-spanned horn crossbows could deliver around 200 J at 70 m/s under good conditions (cold & dry). & the crossbow in question only weighs 3.5 kg; some surviving 15th-century horn crossbows are bigger. The yew warbow certainly still wins in total energy output per minute, but each shot from such a crossbow is significantly more powerful (about +50% compared with that 160lb yew warbow).
I really hope that there are some high end academics out there who are actually using your videos for serious research. The level of effort you put into your testing deserves recognition
Thank you that is very kind; I am interested and enjoy it that’s all. Interesting work on cuir boille and gambesons to come..
@@tods_workshop and it's your interest that helps us develop a further knowledge and deeper appreciation of it. I cannot wait for more videos on the topic, i just simply hope you are recognised for your advancement of our understanding on the topic in an "official" capacity. Need to get you some honourary degrees or something from a lot of prestigious universities
This *is* high end academia (it's performing experiments that require a serious amount of investment and preparation), and this *is* serious research (appropriately controlled, measured, reported and reproducible).
@@tods_workshop But really, I think this kind of research could benefit a lot official research too. As they are doing in stone age archeology, researchers could learn and test a lot of theories and historical analysis based on field tests!
@@andrewmartin3671 Still, there is the need to collect the data, publish them, make them visible and recognized by other researchers, as well as cross-correlate them with other tester/researchers. Otherwise it remains a test, not a research :) I am not saying it is not valid, only that in the scientific/academic world there must be a shared consensus for the idea or the theory to be acceptable and accepted. One man opinion is just an opinion (or a test) and it becomes a solid theory when it is reproduced, shared and confirmed
Tod's American spirit is coming out. "I just want to shoot stuff!"
Me too, Tod. Me too.
You're gonna have to rename this to your "Mechanical Joe" lol
I like that idea.
"Yeah let's shoot shields"
The smile that accompanied that statement made my day. Truly wholesome. Can't wait for this series!
I love how exited Todd is at the end, its great to watch someone who really enjoys finding out the historical stuff
Tod it's awesome to see you so energized and enthusiastic, especially when the news is filled with depressing things. Thanks for being a beacon of positive and encouraging things! Love your channel.
187.8 fps = 57.21 m/s
187.1 fps = 57.02 m/s
0.5 * 0.081 * 57.21^2 = 132.55 Joule
0.5 * 0.081 * 57.02^2 = 131.67 Joule
Momentum: 4.63401 and 4.61862
It's probably just under 57 m/s on impact because of the range.
0.5 * 0.081 * 56.5^2 = 129.28 Joule
Joe's test for comparison
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hU44CTyPtKp1SR22bETWRcGXrQjWkJQsoG0AAsLpiJk/edit?usp=sharing
Thanks - numbers coming in the next film
@@eirikronaldfossheim So roughly in line with a 150lb bow then it seems, a bit less than Joe was shooting in the armour penetration video but still a damn heavy impact.
@@ad3z10 No, you've gone the wrong way. 129 joules is only 95ft-lbs.
@@ad3z10 Yes, about the same as what Joe did with 63 gram and 75 gram arrows and 145-160 lb bows at point blank range.
The arrows in the ARROWS vs Armour Medieval Myth Busting film were around 80-85 gram (I have screenshots) and had a speed of 55.686 m/s at 10 meters and 52.1 m/s at 25 meters. That's 124.04 and 108.576 Joule respectively if the arrows were 80 grams. It's 131.789 Joule and 115.362 Joule if the arrows were closer to 85 grams. That will give us about 57.8 m/s at 1 meter because the drop in speed is approximately 0.239066 m/s per meter.
It's just about the same as Tod's crossbow. He's just a tad slower, about 0.6-0.8 m/s.
And taken into account that Joe's 160 lb bow shot a 75 gram arrow at 60.8 m/s at 1 meter and it hit with 138.65 Joule, the arrows were probably closer to 85 grams than 80 grams. If the arrows were 80 grams and left the bow at 57.8 m/s, it's only 133.63 Joule, and that doesn't make sense. It should be higher than 138.65 Joule. If the arrows were 85 gram the kinetic energy at 1 meter should be 142 Joule when the speed was 57.8 m/s. That's more in line with what the results should be. 5 grams matter a lot. (I have the screenshots of the arrowsmith telling us on FB the arrows were 80-85 grams.)
Love this idea of this Todd, just watching you get all excited over this this is so joyful, love your job, and never work again because you are enjoying what you do, more people should strive for this.
Watching you shoot the chronograph, and talking about crunching the numbers, made me think of Paul Harrell. He shoots a lot of guns with a wide variety of ammunition. Look up his videos on UA-cam. He has a great formula for a "meat target" that can be used to simulate a human or animal torso.
Is the meat target a suitable analog for performance against a human target, you be the judge
@Crawling Chaos he was making a joke, Paul prefers not to make conclusions on his channel, he shows you his testing, his results, asks the questions, and closes with "you be the judge"
Then Todd would need a new and improved high tech fleece bullet stop.
@Crawling Chaos are human lungs made of tasty oranges?
@@Tfaonc with the way 2020 is going, im sure someone will find out yes or no shortly.
great!
At last a proper serious test involving people that really knows what they are doing and not just using target tips and cheap plates for their tests.
Thanks Tod, you and your team are incredible!
the enthusiasm of someone who loves data when they find a consistent testing method meets the enthusiasm of shooting stuff
Brilliant! .. this is the holy grail for every medieval enthusiast.
PS: I hope you will test the effect of adding 🐝-wax again!?!
I thought those findings were immensly interesting!
watch this space
Yes, bring it on Tod! Your enthusiasm is just infectious, can't wait.
Stay healthy out there
Please put this argument to rest:
- "Should mail be warn above or below the gambeson?"
(Their are historical evidence for both).
This is the perfect tool for it.
Umm... both on top and under simultaneously of course!
Worn like a jack coat of plates but with chainmail in the middlelayer?
I'm going to wager the gambeson was worn over for weather reasons. Keeps the wet and cold and wind and hot off of your very conductive armor!
I'm betting on mail above gambeson, because mail on normal clothing/naked skin is just uncomfortable.
@@thrownswordpommel7393 no, not really, two layers of linen are perfectly fine when wearing mail on top, if it is tailored correctly.
That's a brilliant idea! It's probably more consistent than an actual longbow, so for tests it's arguably better than an actual longbow. I'm excited to see the following videos
"I'm just gonna shoot stuff alright"
Tod never change :')
love the elaborate intro and how it all crumbled away in the split second the arrow needed to pierce the linen to give way to child-like wonder! Thats what its all about.
Thanks and it was a moment
"I'm just gonna shoot stuff" and thus this channel turned into the medieval-English version of the DemolitionRanch
Just needs a creepy Cooter and he'll be official
What an awesome channel. I love this 'WHAT IF?'...stuff!.. Lots of fun to watch... It uses technology that was available back in the day.
Love the 'lucky trousers' - they look like they can stand on their own :D :o
Old friends
I love these experiment videos. The one with Joe Gibbs shooting the plate armor was absolutely fascinating.
The eagle eyed amongst you, lol
Finally someone with science. Well done and plzzzz moooore.
Brilliant idea. I was thinking if the arrows from the crossbow might have meaningfully less wobble than longbow arrows, and wether or not that would make a difference. Might be testable with your 90lb longbow and an equivalent crossbow in terms of velocity. Cheers
definitely going to affect armor penetration
Exactly what I was thinking!
That would be an interesting comparison. A longbow shot through a chronograph at a target, but the target being filmed on an ultra high frame rate camera in front of a scale so you could measure velocity at impact and compare it to velocity at release... then make the same shot with a crossbow calibrated for equivalent release velocity.
I agree, but not just with velocity but also the force of the impact, the force will be much higher if the shaft is in line with the point. From a longbow the arrow leaves the bow oscillating and continues to do so up to the target although slowly reducing. When the oscillating arrow impacts the target the shaft is unlikely to be behind the point and a lot of the energy goes into bending the shaft. However, with a crossbow, the oscillations in the arrow will be much less if not eliminated and thus the shaft is likely to be behind the point (assuming no significant cross wind) resulting in a much higher energy being imparted into the target. I'm not certain as to how much the arrows oscillate from crossbows but I expect this will have a significant difference as to the penetration of the arrows from different bow types.
Tod, videos like yours are the reason why I switch my ad blocker off. Thanks for the amazing content!
2:13
I was literally expecting you to say, "This is what I've come up with, let me show you its features. Ha-ha-ha!" I think I watch too much slingshot channel...
This seems like a highly practical way to test things.
For the sake of accuracy I do have to mention: you really need some ballistic gel underneath the armour as part of your target.
The effect of the gambeson was likely lowered because of the inflexible way it was mounted, and mounting it on a block of gel would mitigate that.
Im not sure it would have made a difference in that case, but you never know, and that's why it's important.
Keep up the good work
I love how Tod is slowly turning into Jorge, while Jorge is more and more acting like Tod
We'll probably see so much collaboration, that the features will be repeatedly shown, with extra science on top!
When Tod said "I just not the man enought for it" bro I really felt that
In this case I personally would say "the end justifies the means" so use what you have to. Really looking forward to those videos :-)
Thanks for that Tod and best of luck to you.
thanks Tod.
i always appreciate your dedication to a methodology. always good to limit the variables.
You should do a comparison video between a longbow, crossbow and instant legolas. Just a suggestion.
By the end, your excitement was nearly palpable! Lol. Great vid, I can't wait to see more.
Nice.
To be accurate: be sure to not pin it flat against a wall/hard target. A person, granted they're not running into the shot full speed, will likely have a bite more give to absorb the power. Usually Balistig gel is used.
I was about to write the Same ^^
I think he will be if his original video was anything to go by
ballistic gel does not account for bones. I would not worry about ballistic gel and accuracy...
A dummy mounted on a semi-flexible pole may work for crude approximations; if more accuracy for measurement is required, perhaps a tethered hanging dummy with some side-to-side movement allowed?
@@Jafmanz just put bone structure in before letting it set. You can even put balloons or bags to represent organs. Each organ with a specific color.
I love how excited tod got towards the end of the video
Tod's videos in a few months: How many toilet seats does it take does it take to stop a 50 cal longbow arrow?
You're passion is infectious. I really enjoy all your information and videos. Thank you for making them.
Most other Archery Vids:
1, A melon,
2, A pig
3, A block of rubber stuff
This has recently become ky favorite channel in the last 6 months. Love your content Tod!
Tod:
“And then for the rest of the world, 81 grams”
Don’t worry Tod, there are many Americans that are very familiar with grams :)
And British who prefer inches!
Count me in that group.
As an American we use grains for our arrows. Fun video though.
Love the passion. He sincerely seems excited.
Dudes just flexxing that when sh*t hits the fan he'll out survive all of us
Well, maybe not all, some of us are thirdworlders with some 'field' experience
If you convert grams to grains, you have a 1250 grain projectile traveling at 187 ft/s. That’s about 97 ft lbs of energy, or about as much as a medium to high velocity .22 long rifle caliber bullet. I suspect a .22 would perform rather comparably.
Do you have any way of getting some modern armor to test with? Maybe some 3-A soft armor?
Arrows go right through regular body armor.
@@bozo5632 do they? That sounds like a great thing to test! And if they're more effective against faster projectiles, could the "longbow" provide enough speed to "activate" the Kevlar?
Arrows will go right through modern soft body armor (Kevlar without a trauma plate). You saw what they did to the gambeson.
@@ScottKenny1978 Any idea what kind of velocity is required? Or what kind of arrow point would work best? The most I can draw is about 67-70 pounds, depending on if I can overdraw a little bit, and I have some heads that are "supposed" to be target heads, but they're almost like a hollow ground javelin point. I'm not at all planning on "needing" to defeat 3-A body armor with my recurve, but it's at least good to know.
@@mtgAzim I don't know an actual speed, but any hunting weight bow should be able to do the job. Those "hollow ground javelin heads" would be your best bet.
I love your excitement Tod, I can't wait to see what tests you come up with in the next few weeks! It would also be great if you could replicate the exact tests you did with Joe with your crossbow just to see if there is any difference
Why not just use the the 160lbs bow as an crossbow prod and make the stock longer to compensate the drawlenght?
right? just build a hooter shooter
Putting wooden bow arms under the constant stress of being at max draw is not great for longevity or reliability and is nonetheless very dangerous in the event of a failure.
@@FoxyOwl Not like you're going to wait a minute at it's full drawlenght 15 seconds at most should be fine, I mean wasn't it done somewhere in Asia?
Last minute is Tod version of a kid in a candy store. He's so excited. Besides that, its more about the arrow and the armour. Good science is getting rid of variables and as much as we appreciate Joe Gibbs, his shooting is a variable.
87th!!!!!
Yup.. im going to be sitting on the edge of my seat waiting for these vids.. love these type of historical archeology tests.
Keep up the good content. The way the arrows explode from the forces when hitting the steal plates is amazing
I love his excitement over this. He is really getting into it.
Tod, your videos make my day, man. I only wish I had your skill, knowledge, and the opportunity to do these things. I'm living vicariously through you.
This is golden. Can't wait to see the upcoming videos, awesome work Tod!
I love it when I find other adults that still know how to play. Have fun!
Tod seams so happy especially at the end of the video, I'm looking forward to then next few weeks and the lockdown longbow
Tod's excitement is contagious!
I do love armour and shield tests, this is gonna be good. What goes through what, what just gets slowed down, what gets stopped dead, will Tod clean his bit of maille up for the test? So many questions, can't wait.
I absolutely love your enthusiasm! I can see it on your face you are really enjoying this! And so am I.
That arrow might have gotten through the gambeson because there was little give, as a human on two legs would!
I love your enthusiasm.
Great idea, I look forward to the next videos, but I think it would be very interesting if in addition to the bow arrows you also tried to shoot a war crossbow from the same historical period, to see if there are differences
Wow! I’m in the Nevada desert now and every day! So excited you mentioned that and said Nevada correctly! Love your videos! Keep it up!!
I'm excited for whats to come! This channel is better than Netflix..
Todd is getting excited. This will be interesting, indeed.
Looking forward to seeing the results!
I can't wait to see those Tests.
Fun, Fun and some more Fun.
Thanks Tod.
I love how excited you got at the end of the video. Can't wait for the upcoming stuff!
Your excitement has translated to my excitement, can't wait.
That title and the beginning of the video had me thinking Tod had gone full Joerg.
Your excitement has me excited.
Cheers!
I have never seen Tod this excited,and it's really refreshing. He's like a 10 yo on his way to disneyland!
I hope you do the same concept with a movable target to represent how much the arrow might push someone back! That was part of the brilliancy of your Medieval Myth Busting: Arrows vs. Armor series
I love the energy you're putting into this. Good stuff
You can see the excitement in his eyes... That's when you know this man has true passion in what he does.
Of all the people in the known universe that we want to get a sudden burst of manic happy cabin fever enthusiasm, Tod is definitely a contender for the championship belt!
Go get ém, Tod! The world needs to see enthusiasm and happy things now. More than ever.
*"nNOOOOOOOO!!!* You cant just do medieval longbow tests with a modern crossbow!"
Tod: _"Hhaha 'Faux Gibbs' goes twang!"_
This was a clever and cool idea! I can't wait to go through the whole series!
Awesome demonstration! I was amazed that that arrow made it through too! I shoot longbows of 55lbw and 75 lbw at targets, 100lbw and 140lbw at roving shoots. My biggest warbow arrows are 97 gram ash and almost topple the boss!
This is going to be great, but it is your personal enthusiasm for it elevates the quality that much higher.
You sir bring tears to my eyes
This is gonna be great! Can't wait! Let the testing commence!! 😀
great video, and wonderful to see how excited you are to try all this stuff out. can't wait to see it.
I very much like the idea of several videos worth of Tod shooting stuff.
This is fantastic! I can't wait to see more of your amazing armor tests!
Sounds like a totally cool experiment to my way of thinking. I'm looking forward to the results.
You seems sooo enthusiastic for all these test at the end it was too cute xD You are an amazing content creator and artisan, keep up what you are doing it’s awesome! ^^
Thank you
I'm looking forward to seeing these tests! I've watched a number of your videos in the past, but just subscribing now so I don't miss them.
I think its a great idea to use a crossbow for this, when doing scientific testing it is important to eliminate as many variables as possible, such as the archer pulling back slightly different distances and having slightly different draw weights for every shot. Once the arrow is in the air and at the right velocity it doesn't matter if it was fired from a bow, crossbow, or even air cannon.
For those curious, a 80g arrow at 188 ft/s is ~130 joules. To put this in comparison a hockey puck shot at 89 MPH has 130 joules, a baseball thrown at 94 MPH has 130 joules, and a tiny .22LR round has about 160 joules. So the actual energy behind this arrow is really not as much as you would think, considering the size and weight of the bow (especially the bows that Joe Gibbs shoots). What makes them dangerous is all of that energy is concentrated into the small sharp metal point at the tip.
What makes arrows dangerous is their momentum (Mass * Velocity). How long does it take a train to stop from even 10kph? Several hundred meters. While a car at 100kph with the same kinetic energy can stop in less than 50m.
@@ScottKenny1978 Yes and no. Their momentum or kinetic energy alone isn't super dangerous. As I said in the first post, that arrow he shot has the same kinetic energy as a hockey puck or fast ball in baseball. Neither of those regularly kill people, but they might bruise or break a bone if it hits you without padding.
If you took that same arrow and put a 3 inch foam tip on it, the momentum and kinetic energy would be the same, but it would be less dangerous. Why? Because the energy is not concentrated into a single small hard point.