Giant Un-fixable Villain Plot hole? - Section 31
Вставка
- Опубліковано 6 лют 2025
- Join this channel to get exclusive access to great perks:
/ @trekyardswebseries
Main Website:
www.trekyards.com
Support Trekyards on Patreon:
/ community
PayPal Support via: trekyards@hotmail.com
Want cool Trekyards Merchandise? Check out our TeeSpring store:
teespring.com/...
or the new TeePublic Store: www.teepublic....
Please visit: www.AwayTeamGe... and use Discount Code - Trekyards15 at checkout to get 15% off of your order!
Trekyards on Twitter:
/ trekyards
Trekyards Public Discord Server:
/ discord
Trekyards Official Fleet Members Only Discord Server:
/ discord
Captain Foley's Channel
/ @stuartfoleycaptainfoley
Social Media:
Trekyards on Twitter:
/ trekyards
Main Trekyards Facebook Page:
/ trekyards
Main Trekyards Universe (formerly Fleetyards) Facebook Page:
/ fleetyards
Trekyards Model Building Showcase Facebook Page:
/ 525656090901951
Team Trekyards Star Trek Online Facebook Group:
/ teamtrekyards
ABOUT US: Star Trek ships, tech and minutia are examined here in great detail.
As well as everything from episode reviews, breaking news, cast and crew interviews, detailed ship breakdowns, special events, LIVE discussions with you, our great community, in depth discussions with the ships creators and all of the NEW (and original) Trek content are discussed in a format that points out the good and bad in ALL of Trek. Because none of it is exactly perfect...and we here at Trekyards LOVE Trek in all of its forms even when it disappoints or makes us mad. So if you wanna discuss Trek this is your one stop shop for all of it! We have a fantasic community of Trekyardians that we know and love and that join us on a regular basis to chat with us about the thing they love the most...Star Trek.
So if you love Star Trek you belong here on this channel.
i love how RLM just by going over the dates Paramount gives us aaalmost discovered the same plothole, but their perspective was more on the age of the Garret character
Everything about this so called Star Trek product is an absolute joke. A shame Mike had to smash his plate. But there was no other choice.
@@CamelsarseI own that plate and hate the person that gave it to me so I should smash it also lol
I think Mike and Rich are just beleaguered by the abuse of Star Trek over the past decade or so and didn’t care to pull on this thread lol
The movie has so many glaring problems that it's hard to pick which is the worst.
I think the thing that bothers me the most is the super weapon. It's ridiculous and cliched. Where does the Terran Empire even get that level of technology? If they had weapons that powerful then how did the Mirror Klingons and Mirror Cardassians conquer them by the time of DS9? What is the power source of the weapon? A bunch of Omega Particles? A baby Q? And how did they ever test it to make sure that it works? They don't just build nuclear bombs and hope they work. They have to blow up a lot of nuclear bombs to test them. So how do they test a weapon that can blow up billions of planets and stars? Are they just blowing up entire solar systems?
Obviously it didnt even work in the end
This bothered me when it first revealed that it was him. I'm glad you guys caught it
The writers weren't paying attention to what they wrote?!
What is this The Acolyte?!
What is this the last season of Game of Thrones?!
No it's kurst man dreck, 🤮 don't think about it ever again, stay safe & sane
Guys why are you bending yourself backwards? It is a plot hole. Example number 5,024 of bad writing from this movie. They constantly fail at basic storytelling here.
It’s been at least a year or two since we heard that this show would involve a young Rachel Garrett, therefore it’s clearly set in the so-called Lost Years era leading into TNG. I said at the time that we’re dealing with Discovery writers and showrunners who have never actually watched Star Trek and don’t know the timeline. I said, at the time, that there’s no reason to assume these writers even know that 100 years passed between TOS and TNG. I said, at the time, that this show could be set immediately after Discovery, season 2, and they wouldn’t bat an eye at including a young Rachel Garrett. Alas, despite what certain shills are making up about the stardate system that’s never been heard of before now, the stardate shown clearly implies a setting pre-TOS. I’m telling you, they don’t know the difference. They have no idea that there was a massive time jump between TOS and TNG. They think it was twenty-some years later like it was in real time. That’s why they didn’t age him.
This was my biggest problem with the film (and it had a lot of problems) because it breaks the entire plot so badly. I don't know how professional writers can be so shoddy with their writing. How do you make such giant error and not even notice? I mean they probably did notice and just didn't care, which is in some ways worse. It's the laziness and lack of respect to viewers that makes me most mad. All of this could have so easily have been avoided if Georgiu had just been sent back to the year she originally left. I mean, it still would have been a terrible movie, but at least it would - 'make sense' is too strong praise - at least not break the entire plot. The only reason they set it in 2324 was to have Rachel Garrett, but she is Rachel Garrett in nothing but name. She could have been anyone.
In the TOS and Enterprise episode where the Defiant goes to the Terran Empire... it goes back in time.
Perhaps this rift has the same effect.
Come to think of it, when Discovery comes back from the mirror universe, it ends up 9 months in the future.
I guess, depending on method (The Wormhole and transporters don't seem to have a temporal shift), there's a natural affinity to time-shift where the Mirror universe is in the past compared to the Prime universe.
Prime universe does seem to naturally be ahead in time too, as seen in the Lower Decks Season 5 episode 9. While it's possible Kerzon is just really old, the fact that T'Pol is there too suggests those 2 character are from the past relative to the prime timeline.
They should still address it in the film. There's any number of explanations they could have given.
Phasing again ignores floors like in "The Next Phase". Maybe they found the U.S.S. Jenolen to avoid aging or a wormhole like Dr. Telek R'Mor.
Stop!!! Do you expect the producers of Kutzman era Trek to keep track of their own continuity? LOL!
When I first watch this movie I was not sure it took place in the early 24th century. The startdate of 1292.4 made me think of the 23rd century and later we have Rachel Garrett from the captain of the Enterprise C or was she supposed to be an ancestor? This was confusing and so we were told this was from the lost era.
The opening shot specifies that it takes place in 2257, which would have been shortly before TOS. Not a plot hole, just folks not noticing shit in order to complain about "errors" that aren't.
@@DeaconBlues117 Except the film has Rachel Garrett in it, she is Captain of the Enterprise C in 2366, that would mean in the TNG episode where she meets Picard through the time rift she would be about 130ish years old if she a Starfleet officer in 2257, she sure as heck doesn't look that old and would most certainly be well into retirement by then and not captain of the Ent-C.
This whole thing is one big Kurtzman hole.
Personally I didn’t even notice this plot hole, probably because I wasn’t invested in the slightest. Let’s also acknowledge that this isn’t even the first time DISCO-era writers have messed up continuity in their own productions.
I’ve given up hope on this team staying true to Star Trek history when they can’t even keep their own stories straight.
Anyone else remember when they added the biological fact that people from the Mirror universe can’t deal with the light frequency of the Prime Universe and needed to use eye-drops?
Yeah that was why Lorca(right name?) was in the dark alot right, a foreshadowing of the twist? I haven't watched Discovery properly, only clips and maybe first ten minutes of the pilot.
I noticed this straight away, and expected there to be a throwaway line, saying that the portal had a temporal element to it, or he had been in stasis, to heal, or something... but it never happened.
However, if his plan was to destroy Georgiou... she might not have been there, when he came through (to a different time), so WOW... wasn't he lucky!!... and... How did he even know she had gone to through to our universe?
The problem of course is that eather San is 110 years old or Garrett(at the time of yesterday's Enterprise) is... but one of them MUST be 110. Now I may have to eat crow later because I have not finished your video yet but I am surprised you guys seem to just assume that thr writers put this in the early 24th century since the only hard date given is 2257 for the year Gorgeu crossed over then a 'current' Star Date that is exactly 20 days prior to "where no man has gone before" I think the writers did set this in the TOS era but screwed up with Garrett.
they could have got George Takei he's 87 that would not have been a stretch. and fleshed out the script like they did for captain Nero in JJ trek.
So the wormhole between federation and Terran empire, he traveled is supposed to be time shifted?
Not first time they did time shifting between universes they did that with the Defiant from TOS era being sent to past in Mirror universe… of course the difference is they explained it on screen….
No one ever even hits that its time shifted, so there is no reason to suggest it was.
Every time shifted travel was always a artificially caused trip VS all the real time shifted travel has been naturally occurring anomalys.
Until otherwise stated, we must assume this Ion storm, as in TOS, was a naturally occurring real time anomaly.
In Enterprise the Terran Empire managed to steal a Starfleet Constitution Class ship through a rift that not only jumped universes but also jumped time. We could assume that travelling between universes via rifts/openings there could be time travel involved but when jumping between universes other ways like spore drives or teleportation there is no time slips.
The filmmakers didn’t care 😅
You guys are putting more effort into this than the makers deserve.
I'm quite apathetic about this particular "movie" but I applaud the effort and thought Sam put into this. I thought I couldn't watch more S31 content anywhere but y'all kept my attention.
San should look like Dr. McCoy in Encounter at Farpoint.
I don't Think this Movie is getting a Sequel.
The "movie" was probably cut down for time. There must be an explanation for something this obvious.
Yeah... it's called Alex Kurtzman's laziness
If it was, removing important plot information, but leaving one liners was a bad choice by the creatives.
There was also no limitation on run time for a streaming movie, had they wanted it to be longer then they would have.
There were most definitely big chunks cut out of this thing. It jumped around so much, I got dizzy
They could say San is Lanthanite, but pretending to be human... then again the Empire would probably do DNA tests, unless he fakes them.
The story was broken before they started writing it. Wrong person calling the shots, wrong writers working as a committee instead of a creative group. The moment they got obsessed with prequels, they broke it. As good as Enterprise was they handicapped themselves by having to join up two points in time in every part of every story, every part of the design, every component of production. When they did STD they ripped the rule book up. It broke. They tried to write their way out of the hole by going forward and wrecking anyone else’s story set before that ridiculously poorly thought out ‘future.’ It takes a special kind of vandal to destroy the artwork you were steaming from. Like buying a Da Vinci to copy the Mona Lisa’s techniques then paining over the Mona Lisa so nobody compares them😢
8:00 -- Yeah, humans live, on average, significantly longer (and healthier) by the TOS, and especially TNG, eras, even beyond what the currently-believed general genetic limit for longevity is, sans genetic manipulation (which is a big no-no in the Trek verse in that regard), of about 120, but that doesn't in-narratively justify this relative plot hole. (Cross Example: Bones, per secondary canon, died when he was 139, during TNG S-3 timeline-wise, and that was extraordinary for a human.) So yeah -- something needed to be added, even a passing line, to address that.
Question: When Georgiou and the villain attempting to steal the weapon use their phase shifting technology. This allows them to run through walls. How are they not falling through the floor/deck?
That's how trek phasing works
Phasing doesn't work through gravity plating, the gravitons are impenetrable. I mean for them to even be able to move means they need to push off something solid with their feet, they need to still be effected by gravity otherwise when they phase shift the ship or station around them would continue to move and they'd be floating in space in the same place. So the fact they're still affected by gravitons means they can't phase through gravity plating. Now that could be a general rule of phasing or the technology itself is designed with settings so that gravitons will still affect the user.
is it the God Send, or the Gods End?
Its like Futures End all over again
Fork Handles
@XennialTV I once got my mum "Four Candles" for Christmas as a joke.
Different question, but still connected. You've mentioned San coming over from the other side. But what about the other guy, Data Noe. He came over too. And that's by question. Trying to understand. That guy stole the device, then San followed him over and came up with this plan?
Vitamins! Work wonders for the body.
Since when are they selecting emperors Hunger Games style? Wasn't it usually, "You want to be the emperor? Kill the current one." You keep what you kill style.
No because emperor is a major position and the fate of the entire empire and it's survival requires a ruler that everyone is sure is strong and skilled. Having two people simply fight only tests their physical skill and doesn't test every aspect of that person including their mental and emotional capabilities. Also in a fight the strongest wont necessarily win, sometimes winning can be a fluke. That why a robust system of tests is required for such a major position.
The Empress/controller is a even bigger plot hole.
The Kurtzman stuff is slop. What do you expect? He and his cohort have no love, nor respect for the canon, nor the franchise.
Where Star Trek is going, it doesn't need commonsense or plot. This shit makes Discovery look like TNG by comparison.
As an ex-treky/treker/whatever I am so not surprised that theres a giant plot hole in the new tv-movie? I am so far removed from trek I don't even know what format this is, is it a show or in cinema or somewhere in between, not that I care just for someone that knows a couple of kingon phrases I think thats important to point out I don't even know what section 31 is outside of its DS9 and ENT references.
Trek died when the gave up on continuity (flawed as it was) and rebooted/reconned everything, it smacked of a lazy we don't care to keep our stories straight approach and seems thats what happened. The fact I'm commenting here probably shows that Trek has a huge audience if it wanted it but clearly it doesn't because hand wavey only nerds follow the story and this is trash attitude is where the suits thing theres money to be lost or something
This movie has not aged well and will not age well!
Asians really don't raisin.
I guarantee you this is how it went down. script where there was a stick in the ass starfleet character. no plot hole, film is set 60 years earlier than currently. someone points out there is literally nothing in this movie that has anything to do with star trek, how about we make the starfleet name recognition, make her ent c captain. writer (now on 1215th major script revision and completely broken as a person) that wouldn't make sen...... ahhhh fuck it.
Hmm I just had a thought that new star trek could have its cake and eat it too. Maybe all this amazing tech, which is more futuristic than Nemesis era, DID exist back in tos days... but it wasn't reliable, so the federation never allowed it. Like medicine needs to be cleared before use in the federation sector . Just throw the word "experimental" around show said technology going awfully wrong every now and then.
This is kurst🤢man drek🤮 move on stay sane and safe don't think, forget! 😊
I picked up on this right away. It's clear they just didn't think of it. Or they did and figured it wasn't worth it.
I don't think we need to nitpick how he hasn't aged or there's plot holes, they just didn't account for it.
Georgiou is from Discovery era... Garret is from a fair bit later. I didn't even look at the supposed dates.
Could have addressed it by saying the link between the universes wasn't to the same date a bit like Yesterdays Enterprise.
Yep! you can artificially create a breach between the 2 universes and have it be between 2 years...or you can use a naturally occurring rift which is in real time.
Would not have taken long to line of dialogue ha.
Am i surprised they might've forgotten ?! Not at all!
Does it even matter with a trainwreck of a movie like that? Not at all!
Also, most people haven't watched Discovery past season 3, thats the issue aswell!
Trust me there's enough already breaking this film it doesn't need an additional plothole just for that.
I was thinking the same thing and was like another bad thing about the movie.
Glad I'm not the only one who noticed this. San's age has been keeping me up for days, and I really want to stop thinking about this stupid crap movie.
Are they fully human? Also does it matter? LOL
Anyways, realistically I think this was really just scenes from what was going to be a tv series bunched together into a film. In other words I could've seen this as a 10 episode miniseries with part of it being flashbacks to the mirror universe. I wonder if this dude from the mirror universe was originally just suppose to be in flashbacks or something. This is an example of how a series shouldn't be transformed into a movie.
Hit that like button!
If only I cared.
With that superweapon in the movie is the mother of all superweapons. Even the progenitor story arc of SD TD last season deus ex machina does not over shadow this. The Borg dont have a superweapon like this. Why is this being glossed over. It makes all other stakes like a drop in the ocean in other movies/series. Its so OP it is stupid. Just like spore drive, Burhams being so good at everything and the basis for Spock being the man he is etc etc etc. This is Kurtzman logic. How do you top this or anything else when they keep breaking any logic and rules established?
This is why I also had problem with EU in Star Wars. Eventueally every character is ridicolously OP to the extent that Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker seems like kindergarden kids. It removes what has been established. And its so easy and stupid to just "oh wow lets make the Death Star look like a joke!" and then the next movie "oh wow lets make this thing make the weapon that made Death Star look like a joke, look like a joke! And also the OG and beloved characters as a joke!".. Its just bad writing and IP care
I think the entire of Section69 is a plothole.
This movie was so poorly written, this glaring pothole wasn't even noticeable.
This thing made the worst of Discovery season 1 seem like DS9 by comparison. Just a lazy pile of trash.
This movie is too forgettable to warrant this amount of discussion.
You're over-thinking this. It was an uninspired, bland script. Moving on...
I refuse to watch the movie. I hated Discover and the Picard season one and two. The cheap decision making is out of stupidity or laziness .
Michelle Yeoh and most of the actors were great but the writers SUCK!!!! I'm sorry but that's just how I feel. And i oiked discovery so i ain't no nuTrek hater.
Picard S1
Picard is what 80 years old? Couldnt even run up a flight of stairs. 😂
All Kurtzman trek is bad trek. SNW is the worst of the lot.... thank god for the previous 800 episodes to fall back on. Star Wars fans arent as lucky. They've got 3 or 4 movies and Andor.
wdym 110 years is reasonable tho?
No plot hole.
Spatial anomalies don't sync up with between the universes, which is why the USS Defiant was send from the TOS to Mirror Enterprise's timeline.
Not exactly.
The Defiant breach was a artificially created tear in space which the tholians used to lure the Defiant too and bring it into their universe.
In TOS its an naturally occurring Ion storm which messes with transporters and causes the universe hop.
Section 31, the breach is an ion storm in both universes which converge and cause a breach, not the Tholian artificially caused tear.
As such, the example we have to pull from is real time crossing, which is every other example in TOS/DS9/Disco.
They did not say it was an artificial created tear, nor did they say ay any point that San was coming from a displaced era.
As such, onscreen evidence shows this as a plot hole :D
Oh and the Discovery final season naturally occurring way to travel between universes, was also real time and not time displaced.
We really thought this through.
@@Trekyardswebseries Discovery was time displaced the first time they went through to the mirror universe. They were there for days and missed months of their time in the prime universe. You can't ignore that. Simply because this was written before the final season of Discovery. They aren't breaking the rules established by the show. Sans just going from one universe to the next can be time displaced as Discovery was as was the Defiant. You can't ignore the show. There are 1:1 times the travel happened but there are also time displaced ones too. You can't just ignore the time placed episodes. Or that entire plot point in season 1 of discovery is meaningless i guess?
@@jasondiend4248 We dont ignore the show or canon.
The first season Discovery, they travelled in real time over to the Mirror universe, then the return home was time displacement due to them spore jumping through the mycelial network on the end of a giant explosion, not a normal jump. You cant ignore the mycelial jump part of it.
This jump was artificial and unusual, just as with the Tholian Defiant time displacement , only artificial jumps have ever caused time displacement, you cant ignore this in the show.
All natural anomalys, the TOS Ion Storm, the Disco S5 storm and to some extent the DS9 wormwhole are all natural, this along with the DS9 easy beaming, almost every travel is in real time so you cant just ignore the context of those.
As presented in section 31, this is a naturally forming nebula which acts in real time, there is no where in the script which even implys there is a time displacement. You really cant ignore the lack of any dialogue to say there was a time element, its simply not there.
As such, without any of this evidence, and with the portal being a seeming natural version at a real time line ness, it is there for a plothole.
Aging in Star Trek isn't really a problem. Remember in the TNG pilot McCoy says he is 137, but visually looks in his 80s. Likewise, in the DS9 pilot, Dax is said to be 328 and she had no problem fighting the klingons when they tried to board the station in The Way Of The Warrior.
@@davepusey The Dax symbiote was 300+ Jadzia was only 27-30 in the show when she died
For those speaking ill of the movie. Two points, this was TV Movie, not a major motion picture. Our expectations should be set differently. And, yes the movie has some problems, it's Trek and any day we can talk Trek is a good day. Just making blunt comments doesn't help anything, doesn't even leave van opening for a response. And if we don't want anyone to respond, then why post.?
I still personally think, a TV movie should have the same quality writing as a larger budget movie. All media should strive for the best writing possible and infect some indi films with much smaller budgets then this have incredible writing.
It’s really not that big a plot hole. I’ll applaud you for pointing out how old San COULD have gotten, before the year 2333 (yes, i checked that with Google, so sue me!) However, we’ve had PLENTY of Trek episodes mention people being put into stasis, before this. So why wouldn’t it happen with San?
Yes, okay, it’s something that really deserved explanation, because otherwise you essentially get to be right about the age difference. But Section 31 as a movie was invariably two things - Extremely fast-paced, and ruthlessly edited down from what was intended to be a mini-series length. This definitely left a lot of cracks for the plot to get lost in - out heroes basically didn’t even have time, to find out how San even came over from the Mirror Universe, let alone find out how he didn’t age while waiting for Georgiou to show up. Or, indeed, why he would go and make a deal to get hold of the Godsend, in a venue that Georgiou very obviously runs!
So now that I really think about it, there are WAY bigger deficiencies in the plot, than just whatever “proper” age San is meant to be!
The thing is, if you say "Im sure they had a reason...it was just not in the movie".
Then literally every issue we just cant talk about, in any way.
Its a bad president to set.
The fact is, they left not a single implication/clue/hint of anything about him being the wrong age or having skipped via stasis or time travel, as such...its a fair plot hole as its a hole in story which affects the plot and believability, and there is no answer or clue or answer.
@ Oh, that’s completely what I’m pointing out! The movie was too fast-paced, and too poorly edited, for them to fit in an explanation for any of that - and i can only assume they originally wanted to.
@@NineWorldsFromDrew Ha! Still...gotta call out the things that dont make sence, in a Trekyards way.
Sooooooo, ppl in the future don't live longer?
I'm sure it's an oversight but hardly a plot hole LOL.
If you watch the video you will see we discuss age in the Trek universe :)
Given the arguments as presented in this video, certainly its a plot hole.
Almost Nobody watched such Nu Wreck Crapp......