There are so many unanswered questions that would've been resolved in a fifth installment of the series. It has often been alluded to by staff, writers and the actors. Alas, with many of them dead (Auberjonois who voiced Audron, Lukather who voiced Vorador, Tony Jay who voiced the Elder God, William, Zephon and Mortanius) and many others aged so far their voiced would no doubt have changed drastically, I fear this may never come true, unless as a book.
Yeah, personally I'd only accept a graphical and gameplay update. If they use the same audio files from Soul Reaver 1 onwards that'd be fine. Blood Omen is a little more tricky because the audio quality is quite dated, but I wouldn't mind them redoing that one with a new voice cast as long as Simon Templeman returned as Kain. In terms of gameplay, It'd be amazing if they incorporated From Software Souls difficulty into the remake. Imagine fighting terrifying bosses like Melchiah which provide a real challenge.
I always liked that, at the end of Defiance, Raziel chose integrity, just like he told Kain that he would. He saw the way to save the world, and sacrificed himself while Kain basically didn't have a real choice.
Yeah, you could argue that this culmination is also a last 'Fuck you' to the person he has feared, despised and learned to respect. By making his own ultimate choice and sacrifice he both trusts Kain and leaves him no other option.
That's the best fuck you Raziel can give to him, even better than revenge. The only reason Kain wants to save the world is because he doesn't want to rule on a ruin. If Nosgoth could be saved in a way that doesn't involve him controlling the world, he would say no.
He doesn't really save the world... it's too late, but he "save what remains", and gives to Kain the opportunity to restart (once again) the time loop... with now a purified Soul Reaver
@@wareforcoin5780 i agree. now, one i've been hoping for is a remake of the series. with todays graphic power, this old game would be beautyful AF... maybe a continuation to the story as well
"Revenge is motivation enough, at least it's honest. Hate me! But do it honestly", - i love this series so much. These dialogues still inspire, years after the making.
@@silkybuns799 Let's drop the moral posturing shall we? We both know there is no altruism in this pursuit, your reckless indignation brought you here; I counted on it! There's no shame in it Raziel..."
The voice acting in this series has never been rivaled. From Kain's first lines to an innkeeper, to Raziel cleansing the Balance Guardian, I never stopped having chills.
@@jimhuffman9434 so true! when i played that game with a friend and we met that bartender again...yeah, revenge was sweet. Even more so, was the fact, that he had some hidden things. So we came to this conclusion: never trust a tavern keeper, because they might hide something from you. Thus our quest to hunt every tavernkeeper began.
It's like, devs have listened to the games dialogue and just said to themselves "Well. We can't top that, so lets just have the player read lines of text". I have not seen better in a game since, Max Payne III has some amazingly written dialogue - well read too - but it really is rare when we get to hear great dialogue in games. There are certainly games out there that do a great job, but it is these titles that I recall when thinking about it.
When I first played Soul Reaver when it came out on PlayStation, during the opening cut scene when Kain destroyed Raziel's wings then ordered him tossed into the abyss, I originally thought that he paused as a way to torment Raziel. As the other games came out, I began seeing a depth in elder Kain that spoke of someone who was playing at a longer game. At the key point of Soul Reaver 2 when Kain pulled the sword from Raziel and showed genuine concern, it made me ask a question: If Kain was so ruthless, why didn't he simply let the sword consume Raziel? AT the point in Defiance when Raziel allowed himself to be run through by the reaver, my mind immediately snapped back to the opening cut scene of Soul Reaver: Kain didn't pause because he was taunting Raziel, or giving false hope that he wouldn't be executed, or ever to relish in his suffereing. Kain wavered for a moment, legitimately not wanting to doom his most trusted and loyal lieutenant to unknown centuries suffering and torment and rage, for a split second he nearly ordered his lieutenants to release Raziel, but knew if he did, it would damn all of Nosgoth.
Yeah. The later games paint a different picture of Kain actually feeling doubt and pain over what he was doing to his most loyal and favorite son. Especially since Defiance almost seemed to hint that Kain was actually looking for a way to win but not sacrifice Raziel. He always tried to avoid killing him even at the end he was horrified showing that despite how he acts Kain did care.
It's likely that Kain was originally just tormenting Raziel, Soul Reaver originally wasn't planned to kick off this bigger plot involving Kain having a bigger plan until the developers found they couldn't implement all the ideas they wanted to. Basically the games series is like Breaking Bad, it's looks like there was a grand plan for all of it, but in fact the story is the result of a number of rewrites and adjusted plans.
@@dragonstormx the only thing I would say contrary to this is that, in Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver, Kain was anticipating Raziel’s return and even looking forward to it. If his goal was simply to destroy Raziel and condemn him to suffering, I don’t see how his return would be something Kain would desire. Moreover, the series did a lot to demonstrate that there was a much larger game afoot than what appears on the surface. I’m not saying you are dead wrong, but there is evidence early on to suggest he was playing the long game the whole time.
"Had I condemned RAZIEL to this nightmare, when I cast him into the abyss?" Here, Kain realised what RAZIEL had to experienced and bear during few eons because of his fault, at the end of LoK Defiance
Every single time I see this Legacy of Kain videos, it warms my heart. This series have big and dedicated fanbase. And since Square take they dirty hands off this series, maybe we will get a remake/reboot sometime in the future.
@@Kougeru Imagine this series made by From Software, with all the attention to details they had in Dark Souls, with help of some original writers. I think this is the only studio, who would do this series justice, and I'm not even big fan of Souls games, but they attention to lore and storytelling would benefit LoK remake.
I actually would love to see a reboot that turned out to be just another cycle, with the new Raziel and Kain learning from what happened before. Maybe that would even been a subtle way to give the original series a canonical ending
Ive always considered Kain my hero, since i was 10. Growing up rather powerless in a frequently abusive home, he spoke to me. It was he that showed me that brute strength only got you so far. It was these ideals that led me to give up my fathers dreams for me (to continue with sports since i was good at them) and instead follow my dreams of writing. I often reflect on Kain's tenacity when i'm at a low point, something that continues to push me forward to this day. I cant wait to publish my first book, and in doing so, i'll get my LoK sleeve tattoo as a sign that im finally worthy of Kain's ideals. That i fought the forces around me, to achieve my own dream.
@@EvolutionArchive23 Doing pretty well, seeing as how i don't waste mine to leave hateful comments for no reason. Yeah man, i didn't do the thing that i didn't love. Real waste there.
@@EvolutionArchive23 lmao alrighty breh. I moved to europe and married a swedish model, and started a family. Think I'm doing just fine. Mind your own business.
kain basically had no idea what/who the Wheel of Fate was, but he felt the meddling hand everywhere. And he was trying to find out who and what it was, who was meddling so much in his fate, until he found out in Defiance. Kain always felt there were strings attatched, but he couldn't find out by himself, where they led to. always great to see new vids about LoK from you.
agreed, Kain knew that there is a vicious cycle that's unbroken, he wanted to break it ("suppose you flip a coin enough times, suppose one day, it lands on it's edge") but didn't know where to strike to break it. If he strikes down circle of nine, they'd just come back if the elder god wills it, if he kills anyone that would upset the cycle, elder god would bring them back as their pawns. Raziel enabled him to see the single point of failure, now Kain knows where to strike.
The conversation Raziel and Kain have at the pillars have new meaning to me now. The line where Kain says, "if Moebius told you I was at the pits of hell would you come all the way down to find me" is such an easy way to describe human nature. In fact, this whole series in general feels like a commentary on human nature. I have seen lots of people online talk with the self righteousness that Raziel does to Kain at the pillars and I just act more like Kain the more I am older. It's weird, when it comes to online matters, I feel like Vorador from SR2 but when it comes to life I feel more like Kain and Raziel in how much more proactive I want to be.
I think a central question that the story, intentionally or otherwise, brings up is this. What value does morality have to someone who doesn't have a true choice anyway? In that position, surely the 'right' thing to do is to take any action that would give you the choice rather than living under the whims of people who do not have your best interests at heart. Sometimes, the bravest choice is recognising that the choice you have been presented with is not really your choice after all, and working to change that.
That is exactly what I enjoy about the series as well. I've had a few times in my life where I was given a "choice" but people don't actually expect you to walk away from it and do something better with your time. In Kain's case he spent a lot of immortality trying to find a way to fix a problem he didn't create.
Exactly. Furthermore, this seems to mirror Kain's words at the beginning of Defiance, as he talks about having more options and defy fate, to finally have a real choice. Also, he asks what a king should do. This, to me, would mean 'How can I abuse my power to its full extent to benefit myself ?', in the real world. But, in Kain's case ? No. In his case, it means 'What is the best thing I can do for the sake of the world ?'
the game series shows you that you do have a realy choice the funny thing that this series hammers you over the head with time and time again is to make shure a choice is youre own and not someone els manipulating you,everytime raziel is manipulated he fucks up and everytime he does what he wants they get a stepp further.
I think this is one of the best comments about LoK ever made. But this is LoK only from Kain's point of view. There is also LoK from Raziel viewpoint and the lesson it presents: As a being with true free will, Raziel must come to accept responsability for his actions. He spend the better part of most games trying to undo things he consider evil, and for which he feels guilty about. In the first game, he tries his best to undo the vampiric empire he helped to create. In the second, he undoes the fated fight between him and Kain that would result in Kain's death. In the third, he tries to undo the evil he himself did to Janos Audron so many years ago, and in the very end, he undoes the doom of Nosgoth and the false fate Kain has to contend with.
i love the legacy of kain. on one hand i am sad, that the series is dead, but on the other i am happy it is. if i imagine what the mad people in their greed could have done to this series, makes me happy it is not continued. i always loved kain the most. his voice alone cought me emediatly. and the depth of the character is something rarely seen.
Can you imagine this game with microtransactions, paid for skins, some grindy leveling system designed to make you want to pay to advance? This series was a product of its era, and that era, much like Nosgoth, is dead. I'm glad it existed, but I'd hate to see a creeping ghoul of a remake destroying a once proud series.
"Let's drop the moral posturing, shall we?! We both know there's no altruism in this pursuit. Your reckless indignation lead you here, I counted on it! There's no shame in it, Raziel, revenge is motivation enough -- at least it's honest. Hate me -- but do it honestly." That whole exchange is some of the best writing in videogames to date, and it tells you everything you need to know about Kain. He's morally ambiguous, seeming evil on the surface, but there's no question that he has strong integrity. The series' main theme has always been about destiny and fatalism, as it's the easiest thing to talk about, but from the perspective of the characters, especially Kain, he put a really important question on the table as well: "What is a king to do?" Looking at it from his perspective, as a character and as a creature, he isn't just a king, he is a god. "Do you not feel with all your soul how we've become like gods? And as such, are we not indivisible? As long as a single one of us stands, we are legion." And as such, being the one destined to become the Scion of Balance, he knows he must take action, for the manipulations he suffered in his youth can't be easily undone. His reckless actions fuelled by revenge and bloodlust and misguided self-righteousness are what compelled him to kill the young boy king before turning into the Nemesis, and that in turn, became the main reason why Moebius began a genocidal war on vampires, effectively wiping them from the world, leaving Kain as the last one. After all that, Kain's final selfish decision to not sacrifice was the right one. He was the last, truly powerful being left on the world. Nobody could stop him at that point. He could've continued living on top of the world, but as he matured, his values changed. He realized the world was slowly dying and something had to be done. So he took Moebius's place and used the chronoplast to study history and learn as much as he could to try to alter his fate, and with it, the fate of the world. And armed with all that knowledge, he had Raziel thrown into the abyss. He would not throw him with his own hands, however. He doesn't want to do it. Raziel is his own Childe, after all, and he knows full well what will happen to him... but it must be done. And he has faith that Raziel will chase him through history, so that he may also be able to arm himself with knowledge and truth. It's absolutely brilliant storytelling and every little piece of story in these games clearly show just how deep Kain is as a character, and I'm sure most LoK fans don't even realize it. Kain is THE most complex hero ever, going from victim, to villain, to anti-hero, to greatest hero that ever lived. In fact, if there was ever a continuation of the story, thousands of years after Kain finally managed to restore Nosgoth, that the story of his actions would become as religious gospel for future generations in-universe. A true, living, breathing god walked the world, as the ancient vampires once had, and through many hardships, being born corrupted and murdered and reborn again as a vampire, dedicated most of his life studying and planning for the best course of action to save Nosgoth.
I often relate to Kain more as an adult as well as admire his character more in general. I obviously related heavily to Raziel in my youth since the name has very much become my own. I still love Raziel but Kain is now the one I relate to and admire the most
The series entire premise, lore and story can be summarized as: Young Kain vs Elder Kain. Young Kain is selfish, he cares only for power and he kills friend and foe alike who he sees as a threat to his rule. Nosgoth after belongs to him and him alone. He doesn't care if it is a broken world so long as he rules it. A tyrant and horrible king. Old Kain is more complicated. He has learned the forbidden truth of the illusion of free will and seeks to break the Wheel of Fate. He is still not a hero because he is desperate, he after all fights the impossible: fate itself. He is willing to do whatever it takes just like younger Kain but while his younger self only wanted power, elder Kain wants truth and freedom. And when the true enemy is revealed, Kain even discover one of the best qualities of life: hope. Old Kain will remain a monarch of a dying world but he will use his power to ensure that free will is no longer determined by the horrible parasite who has brought Nosgoth and all it's people to their knees for countless millennia. Kain has become a wise and noble King. And to think that Dark Prophecy would have both Kains. What better way to end the series than a final showdown with yourself? After all, there can be only one King. Vae Victis!
I feel like old kain behaves like that because he is mad that there was no way for him to save nosgoth . He knew the timeline he was in was done for yet he couldn’t find a solution until he does . Thats when we see the big change in his character…maybe hope does it for him.
Don't forget how enormously difficult it would have been for him to change like that, he was afflicted with the madness that destroyed the entire circle, so it's not just normal character growth, he would have had to find some kind of iron will to resist the madness and be rational enough to seek the truth and fight the impossible. I feel like it's often overlooked just how difficult that must have been to fend of his twisted destiny, the schemes of the powerful, history and literal madness all at the same time.
In his own words, Kain was tainted from the moment of his birth. He even says this in a cutscene. So yes, it is a wonder that he has come as far as he has.
I GENUINELY love it when a game asks you if you’re sure you’re doing the right thing and has the writing and characters to look you dead in the eyes and go “How sure are you that’s the right choice?”
"Hate me, but do it honestly!" I've said it before, but that line really has become hauntingly relevant in these last several years. People will blindly despise and hate others for the littlest of things, often to the point of blinding themselves to the truth. Kain's line is extremely poignant, as he makes it clear that there isn't anything necessarily wrong with being hateful, but that it should at least be done with a clear understanding of WHY someone would choose to hate instead of operating purely out of spite or misguidance.
Such a master class in character development and voice acting. This game series was once in a lifetime. I wish more people had been exposed to it because it’s impossible to get new people to understand. LOVE that you’re keeping the franchise alive for us fans.
The dialogue in the series is amazing. As a child it made me look up several of the words I really didn't understand. As a result I can appreciate vocabulary and even look to improve my own.
I never played the original Blood Omen, with Soul Reaver being my introduction to the series. So from the start, I identified with Raziel a lot more than Kain. Raziel, whatever his failures, wanted to do the "right thing", but his fate is plagued by manipulators who simply play the game better than he does. Raziel is honorable in character to a fault, his loyalty to Janos set the stage for a Hylden resurgence. His good moral characteristics make him easy to manipulate, in a way making Raziel his own worst enemy. Kain on the other hand has realized that the only path to victory, real victory, lay through playing the game of fate better than his foes. It took time, but eventually he came to see that his "choice" to sacrifice or save Nosgoth was no choice at all. His ideal victory of restoring the Pillars and thus Nosgoth could only lay in finding his hidden third option, which required the sacrifice of everything and everyone he held dear, Raziel most of all. TL;DR: Raziel does the right thing for the wrong reason, while Kain does the wrong thing for the right reason. By balancing the one against the other, there is a chance to overcome the truly malicious foes. It is a brilliant dynamic and I hope we see the ending of their story someday.
It's actually funny because I started with Soul Reaver 1 and 2 and then played Blood Omen 1 and 2. And even during my gameplay through the Soul Reaver games something drew me more towards Kain than Raziel. I loved and identified with Raziel. Then, I played the BO games, and then Defiance, and I realized I sympathized way more with Kain than Raziel(but I still got Raziel in my heart).
@@KingNexusMOCs Yeah, pretty much the same experience. It was in SR 2 that I really began to understand just how complex Kain is as a character, not just a one dimensional "bad guy". The way Kain manages to get Raziel to reconsider his circumstances works just as well on us, the audience, to see that there are no black and white answers, and certainly no easy fixes for Nosgoth.
This needs to be an animated show on netflix with the original writer at the helm. Season 1 - Blood Omen: Legacy of kain Season 2 - Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver So on and so forth. This deserves a full-on storied display for more to see!
I was 8 when my dad bought Soul Reaver, and at that age, it was beyond my grasp the existence of a world, of a story, with no clear cut good and bad guys, just a whole lot of conflict of interests... That keep on scaling and growing.... Kain and his gamble to restore nosgoth and himself to be the ruler of a sustained land. Raziel on his crusade for revenge and then for answers. Moebious and his mixed motivations to extinguish the vampires, from the mandate of god to the young and scared child that was taken away to be transformed into a monster, only to become one by choice. Mortanious and his plan for redemption once he found out what the pillars were for. The old winged ones, whose war against the Hylden was just a purge of the heretics that defied their god's work. The Hylden who didn't want to submit to mortality and wanted to rule above all. And The Elder God, so eloquently put by Raziel, hidding is hunger in a shroud of righteousness. Everyone wanted something, the heroes of their own story. I will never forget this series. Thank you for your work. Cheers!
I could honestly hear hundred of hours of Raziel and Kain talking about morality and I wouldnt get bored These two characters are so iconic when it comes to story telling
"You're lifespan, is a flicker, compared to mass of doubt and regret I have borne since Mortanius first turned me from The Light." OH! The Writing. Chef's kiss.
Great video! In a nutshell, Kain is secretly a good guy who has to do bad-guy shit in order to set the playing field for the good ending. Depending on which Kain you’re talking about will vary one’s opinion of him.
I also grew up with the legacy of Kain series. I tried to figure out the story of this game for so long. it took me years to figure out and I finally figured it out at some point in the past. I love this games story the most out of all the games I play partly cause I loved the challenge it took to figure out.
The pre-rendered intro cutscene in Soul Reaver still looks DAMN GOOD even now despite being from the PlayStation 1 era. Where even now even pre-rendered CGI from those days have not aged all that well alongside the in-game graphics.
One small problem, probably, at 11:17; Kain doesn't seem to know about the Hylden until after the third Raziel paradox. It's possible he knew and lost the knowledge after the first or second Raziel paradox, but there's no indication until the end of Soul Reaver 2. He does seem to know that his death with not restore the pillar of balance and he needs Raziel to do so.
Does that mean that all of Blood Omen 2 got retconned by paradox? Because if so, that's kinda sad. I liked the weird Hylden vampire hybrid oracle, she was cool. I'm hoping he just chose to gloss over the whole Hylden problem, fearing that it would distract Raziel too much from his main goal. But it's hard to speculate about the motives of a mad balance guardian. :\
@@MadamFoogie As Drudicta said. Blood Omen 2 Is the "final" game in the series' noodly timeline. The reason for Vorador's living in BO2 has not yet been uncovered, but he was decapitated in Blood Omen, so that's not a timeline he can be in. Rumor has it that the oracle was to be in the next game, had it continued and you'd play as Kain as a young vampire and as his ancient form.
Leave it to LoK to make things as convoluted as possible. History abhors a paradox, and so does my mental timeline. I've been a fan of the series since it began, and I still can't wrap my head around all of it! Feels like I need to make a set of flashcards or something to study with.
My god. Each video you make following this series makes me love the series more. Thank you for your videos, you provide such wonderful insight into what is arguably one of the best pieces of video game storytelling. The concept of morality and free will in the Legacy of Kain franchise is so fascinating and puts so much into perspective.
I happened upon Blood Omen as a teen and became instantly obsessed with the game. I'd played nothing like it before. The story is engaging. The puzzles were interesting and varied. The story gripping. It's a true gem of a game. Probably considered clunky by todays standards, it still holds a special place in my heart.
I always loved how in the Legacy of Kain world everyone is either wanting to manipulate Kain/Raziel for their own will or for the will of those manipulating the manipulators. Kain basically came to the conclusion; "Play or get played" and took it to heart
Thanks for this. I feel like you unearth some of the reasons that these two characters still inspire loyalty and the desire for more games even so long after the series ended. I guess I personally appreciate Kain's pragmatism as a character and I feel he had a really strong character journey across the whole series, from wild youth to father figure (of a form)
It's telling that when Kain first met Raziel when he returned from the Abyss, he ambigously insinuated that if Raziel was given the choice to sacrifice himself for the sake of the world that he would falter out of selfishness like Kain did. In the end, Raziel WAS more courageous that Kain, willingly allowing himself to not only die, but to have his soul trapped in the Reaver to protect the world.
I feel like Simon Templeman's performance also helps to really sell all of Kain's more subtle personality traits, and the slow but clear arc he takes through the series. You can always tell what he's feeling but never what he's thinking which just makes the character all the more enjoyable. Kain and Loghain (another villain played by Simon) are two of my favorite villains in all of video games for similar reasons of being damn near if not entirely irredeemable, but completely understandable characters.
@@labelledamedumanor4876 Dragon Age: Origins. It's a great game that even if it's a bit old it's held up fairly well and if you like lore heavy RPGs I'd highly recommend it.
Dude, thanks so much for this. The LOK series has to one of the best ever. Thank you so much for delving so deep into its lore. It is such a complex series with so many twists and turns that it is sometimes difficult to accurately access all of the details. You make that happen with these videos. Thanks again. I enjoyed this one so much as I did all the others
It has always been team Kain for me. He had the benefit of immortality so he could learn and become so much more than what is allowed in a human lifespan. He did what he wanted and how he wanted as best he could, and as he lived longer and longer, what he wanted shifted not unlike regular people.
LoK is a series with fantastic writing, a true passion project. It's nice to see creators like you exploring and dissecting the characters so more people can appreciate the franchise in more depth.
One thing I always liked about Kain calling out Raziel for trying to find an excuse for his revenge being righteous is how he only takes issue with it being a mask, whereas Raziel just wanting revenge would have been fine. Considering his debut was avenging his own murder in pretty much the same way Raziel believes he’s doing, he knows he can’t tell him he’s wrong for seeking it and even goes in the opposite direction saying “revenge is motivation enough, at least it’s honest. Hate me, but do it honestly.” It’s a nice detail in making his character more consistent and having him relate to Raziel.
Your videos on this series are always such a treat for me. I also grew up with this series as a kid. I always found Kain to be such a bad ass growing up because of all his cool powers, but as I got older and started to understand it's much more mature themes I really began to appreciate Kain more for his thought provoking and interesting dialogues with Raziel and, like you said, his sheer determination to attempt to fix Nosgoth.
Thank you so much for continuing to put out videos studying this story. It's like getting to view my favorite series from new eyes with each installment, and I'm always amazed by your insights and attention to details. I look forward to the next one!
Fantastic video, so rare to find people who cover this series and almost none who cover it in the way you do. This video was such a delight as a fan of the series, and hearing some of this dialogue again was just a nostalgia trip. Thank you for that, have a like and a subscribe.
L.O.K. was ahead of its time....I would love to see a fleshed out game of Vampire Raziel or even the Ancient wars between Vampires and Hilden race. Perhaps even put the first type of Whare wolves in there.
That's one thing this series always did amazing for me; showing the complexity of morals or ethics is never clear cut... Thanks for another study in this series Strictly!
Absolutely loved this video! From start to finish, I've never identified with either character because as I grew up playing this game from being very young a long time ago, I resulted in ending up being characteristically like Kain due to his beaming influence. And as it rubbed off on me couple times a year every very few years during my time alive, it's affected me, everything I've learnt about him again and again over the years has just stacked the influence up more and more. So while I may not act like him, a good 90% of my behaviour was influenced from Kain and has now become integral within' my own personality, absorbed if you will. Yet I cannot change it, not that I would. Where I am from, the common people mis-perceive me as a lot of the stuff you've described Kain as throughout the video during his early days of being blood bound, those that knew me I mean, failed to see my complex morality just like a lot of people misjudged Kain's. But fail to see my 'changes' for the inconceivable good that I make for others and myself. Instead I become branded a villain, I've led quite an unfortunate life myself and made some questionable decisions that the ancient (in age) Kain would've made. Maybe not as grandeur a plot(s) as Kain's and Raziel's but unfortunate nevertheless, I am at the point right now where Kain gets wiser as his 'Empire' crumbles, but instead of Empire it's my family that is doing the crumbling (as we have a very big family). In short, in a modern real life day, I can be hard to deal with. Especially in a bad mood heh! Anyway, I am praying hands and feet that this survey becomes a game some day. Needless to say, thanks a lot for this video, it was like staring in a mirror hearing you speak about Kain's behavioural traits and moral philosophy. All this I've said, is extremely uncanny to me, even still to this day. Immediate subscribe + like from me! :)
Great video, thank you so much! Love when this series gets another new retrospective or analysis. I remember even just 5 years ago there were so few. And in nearly ever one tho, you really notice when clips come together, I hate the constant 4-note music loop in nearly every big dialogue scene/ Pillar scene throughout Soul Reaver 2 - once you notice it, it drives you crazy. it's like a 5 second loop over and over!
Raziel was in general my favorite character from a protagonist standpoint, as he was learning the truth together with you. But really what I felt was the best thing was how well they complete each other. While Raziel was being driven by revenge first, I just love that over the entire franchise he comes full circle back to Kain, arguably to a stage where they both clearly better friends and allies than at the start. I would've loved to see a continuation of the story as I feel that after Raziels self sacrifice there would be no stone Kain would leave unturned to try and free his best and true friend from the reaver somehow
I really appreciate kain as a character, he's the perfect mix of selfishness and selflessness. Honestly, I feel there should more of these types of characters. Although this is VERY controversial and it wouldn't surprise me if people questioned my sanity, but the hylden general is actually my favorite character in LOK and if possible I'd really like a character study of him.
Hylden are victims of Elder's tyrrany as much as everyone else, if not more. Lord Hylden did terrible things both to the world and to our cast of characters, but his actions are justified from his point of view. He is the leader of his banished people, and his sole motivation is to bring them back home, to the world without wars, suffering and gods. Or, at least, to avenge their kind. So yeah, he's a cool dude.
@@strictlyfantasy so grateful you're not questioning my sanity, but I'll try to be brief. Basically, he's the one who made this all HAPPEN, he killed Ariel which caused nupraptor to corrupt the pillers which in turn put raziel and kain in this seemingly unwinnable situation. I like characters who are somewhat amoral, powerful AND have a good head on their shoulders. In regards to him being amoral, I know his methods are............ questionable but I think he has pretty good reasons for doing what he does. I mean he wants what best for people and he wants revenge on the vampires for screwing over his entire race. People can say what they want but I totally understand and empathize with Mr. Hash'ah'gik.
There's something about Kain's remark on his personal despise of imposed self-righteousness to cover more selfish primal desires for revenge that resonates with me, specially in these times of frequent hollow witchhunts we live in. "Hate me, but do it honestly", it's such a brutal yet undeniable piece of truth. I bet a lot of these 'champions of justice' we so often see in social media and even in real life nowadays would never actually be able to stand before their own mirrored self. Horror would cast them away, as so many did when they confronted the magic mirror from Neverending Story that revealed people exactly as what they truly were. After so many centuries of existence, you gotta grant Kain one of the most underappreciated yet most valuable gits anyone can get: a deep retrospective knowledge of himself, both his lighter and his darker side. Something Raziel still needs to learn through his own journey. Nothing illustrates that better as the moment he fights and destroyes his past Saraphan self, as he spits the line "I despise you". Hating him honestly, just as Kain requested him to do.
I'm the same as you, when I was young, I identified more on Raziel because of his morality. But as an adult, after experiencing life and seeing the world through an observer's standpoint, I've come to realize his naivete and appreciate how Kain did things. Kain chose to do the hardest things to get the most desirable result; a choice that is rarely chosen.
What series I found the legacy of kain series when I was 8 years old on the dreamcast. i was hooked immediately. I've always identified with kain. Raziel is such a excellent character himself. The twist and turns environment and dialog of this series were completely something in itself. To this day I play through the series every couple of years. It feels like home every single time. Excellent video my friend. Vae victis!
"Kain does the right thing for the wrong reasons, while Raziel does the wrong thing for the right reasons." Perfect That is a perfect little encapsulation of their characters.
I like what you said about liking Raziel more as a kid, but relating to Kain more as you get older. Definitely resonates with me. I love your LOK essays!
This game is hugely influential on my art career and my life, it's very dear to my heart it's story it's themes it's depth its lore everything about it, it's forever immortalised and apart of me, games such a life changing experience, 0ver 3 decades later I constantly still think on this game, your an absolute legend covering this game, I thankyou 🤘
I would love a Legacy of Kain reboot or remake. Soul Reaver is still to this day one of my favorite games ever. The story telling waa top notch. Voice acting unparred. A current gen game is what i have been wanting for years. Subbed. Great video.
Thanks. Yeah, I'd love to see a remake too as long as they use the same voice actors who are still alive and use the audio recordings for those who have sadly passed away. I can't see anyone else replacing Tony Jay as the Elder God.
I'll never get tired of seeing videos on this legendary series. I can Holy hope someday they mite do a new version with updated graphics but keep the audio since id feel bad for anyone trying to fill those shoes of the originals
Ever since Soul Reaver 2, Kain's refusal to sacrifice sounded more like an act of spite and indignation, rather than greed. To me, he was like "f- this world and f- you in particular, Ariel. I'm not doing this."
I just wanted to say I really really like your UA-cam channel! I especially enjoy your Legacy of Kain videos. I grew up loving those games dearly and I find their themes and esthetic incredibly evocative. Your videos are a thoughtful dive into nostalgia for me. Thanks! I hope you keep creating!
I feel like I used to relate to Raziel more when I was younger as well. Also relate more to Kain now as an adult too. The narrative between the two is just fantastic and your videos are great as well. Keep up the good work.
I love this game so much all of them. I will always appreciate hearing someone talk more about these games. We must manifest a true sequel to LOKD. This recent fan remaster of SR1 has given me what the end of lokd gave Kane, hope.
Very well written video, you drew visible parallels between the characters and gave clear cut examples, without just repeating the story from the games. I think there is another character who is easy to overlook that acts in selflessness, and that is Rahab. He is loyal to his master to the end, and holds no animosity towards Kain, unlike his brothers, to the point he is even entrustsed knowlodge (to a certain degree) of Kain’s plan, letting him know that he will be killed by Raziel so the pieces fall into the right place. I too find myself identifying with Kain more as an adult and Raziel as a child (I even considered playing Kain the worst parts of Defiance, now its the reverse).
A great analysis-well done. Legacy of Kain game series is a masterpiece--the story writing, the dialogue, the vocal performance sets the bar high for all others. It is a crying shame that the creators and voice actors are not honored enough, instead of the drivel that people are fed from Hollywood.
Ive rewatched several retrospectives over a span of weeks, trying to understand the entire moral scope of what Kain was doing in this and only recently did it hit me what his actions truely were aligning. Good vid.
We need this franchise back so badly
There are so many unanswered questions that would've been resolved in a fifth installment of the series. It has often been alluded to by staff, writers and the actors.
Alas, with many of them dead (Auberjonois who voiced Audron, Lukather who voiced Vorador, Tony Jay who voiced the Elder God, William, Zephon and Mortanius) and many others aged so far their voiced would no doubt have changed drastically, I fear this may never come true, unless as a book.
@@ServantOfOdin i feel a comic series or graphic novel series could work as a continuation
@@crimsondynamo615 i trust no one but amy hennig to finish the story
A full body graphic upgrade but keep the same audio
Yeah, personally I'd only accept a graphical and gameplay update. If they use the same audio files from Soul Reaver 1 onwards that'd be fine. Blood Omen is a little more tricky because the audio quality is quite dated, but I wouldn't mind them redoing that one with a new voice cast as long as Simon Templeman returned as Kain.
In terms of gameplay, It'd be amazing if they incorporated From Software Souls difficulty into the remake. Imagine fighting terrifying bosses like Melchiah which provide a real challenge.
I always liked that, at the end of Defiance, Raziel chose integrity, just like he told Kain that he would. He saw the way to save the world, and sacrificed himself while Kain basically didn't have a real choice.
Yeah, you could argue that this culmination is also a last 'Fuck you' to the person he has feared, despised and learned to respect.
By making his own ultimate choice and sacrifice he both trusts Kain and leaves him no other option.
That's the best fuck you Raziel can give to him, even better than revenge. The only reason Kain wants to save the world is because he doesn't want to rule on a ruin. If Nosgoth could be saved in a way that doesn't involve him controlling the world, he would say no.
He doesn't really save the world... it's too late, but he "save what remains", and gives to Kain the opportunity to restart (once again) the time loop... with now a purified Soul Reaver
@@psychopatate There's a chance now that Kain can save the world. The series ends literally on the word "hope."
@@wareforcoin5780 i agree. now, one i've been hoping for is a remake of the series. with todays graphic power, this old game would be beautyful AF... maybe a continuation to the story as well
"Revenge is motivation enough, at least it's honest. Hate me! But do it honestly", - i love this series so much. These dialogues still inspire, years after the making.
My favourite quote
That’s such a cringe line.
You get your back broken, spend 500 years in an acid bath, I guarantee you’d hate someone honestly.
@@C0wb0yBebop yeah. So why is he trying to hide it behind high morals and important causes?
@@selensewar for real. What's the line before that about revenge is motivation enough and that theres no shame in it?
@@silkybuns799 Let's drop the moral posturing shall we? We both know there is no altruism in this pursuit, your reckless indignation brought you here; I counted on it! There's no shame in it Raziel..."
The voice acting in this series has never been rivaled. From Kain's first lines to an innkeeper, to Raziel cleansing the Balance Guardian, I never stopped having chills.
Facts
Word.
Or words you looked up because this game expanded your vocabulary.
Damn that bartender!
@@jimhuffman9434 so true! when i played that game with a friend and we met that bartender again...yeah, revenge was sweet. Even more so, was the fact, that he had some hidden things. So we came to this conclusion: never trust a tavern keeper, because they might hide something from you. Thus our quest to hunt every tavernkeeper began.
It's like, devs have listened to the games dialogue and just said to themselves "Well. We can't top that, so lets just have the player read lines of text". I have not seen better in a game since, Max Payne III has some amazingly written dialogue - well read too - but it really is rare when we get to hear great dialogue in games. There are certainly games out there that do a great job, but it is these titles that I recall when thinking about it.
"Revenge is motivation enough, at least it's honest. Hate me, but do it honestly." That is a powerful quote.
When I first played Soul Reaver when it came out on PlayStation, during the opening cut scene when Kain destroyed Raziel's wings then ordered him tossed into the abyss, I originally thought that he paused as a way to torment Raziel. As the other games came out, I began seeing a depth in elder Kain that spoke of someone who was playing at a longer game. At the key point of Soul Reaver 2 when Kain pulled the sword from Raziel and showed genuine concern, it made me ask a question: If Kain was so ruthless, why didn't he simply let the sword consume Raziel? AT the point in Defiance when Raziel allowed himself to be run through by the reaver, my mind immediately snapped back to the opening cut scene of Soul Reaver: Kain didn't pause because he was taunting Raziel, or giving false hope that he wouldn't be executed, or ever to relish in his suffereing. Kain wavered for a moment, legitimately not wanting to doom his most trusted and loyal lieutenant to unknown centuries suffering and torment and rage, for a split second he nearly ordered his lieutenants to release Raziel, but knew if he did, it would damn all of Nosgoth.
Yeah. The later games paint a different picture of Kain actually feeling doubt and pain over what he was doing to his most loyal and favorite son. Especially since Defiance almost seemed to hint that Kain was actually looking for a way to win but not sacrifice Raziel. He always tried to avoid killing him even at the end he was horrified showing that despite how he acts Kain did care.
Kain is a hardass, but he really does care. He is such a well written and complex character.
It's likely that Kain was originally just tormenting Raziel, Soul Reaver originally wasn't planned to kick off this bigger plot involving Kain having a bigger plan until the developers found they couldn't implement all the ideas they wanted to.
Basically the games series is like Breaking Bad, it's looks like there was a grand plan for all of it, but in fact the story is the result of a number of rewrites and adjusted plans.
@@dragonstormx the only thing I would say contrary to this is that, in Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver, Kain was anticipating Raziel’s return and even looking forward to it. If his goal was simply to destroy Raziel and condemn him to suffering, I don’t see how his return would be something Kain would desire. Moreover, the series did a lot to demonstrate that there was a much larger game afoot than what appears on the surface. I’m not saying you are dead wrong, but there is evidence early on to suggest he was playing the long game the whole time.
"Had I condemned RAZIEL to this nightmare, when I cast him into the abyss?" Here, Kain realised what RAZIEL had to experienced and bear during few eons because of his fault, at the end of LoK Defiance
Amazing analysis. Legacy of Kain is one of if not the best game stories.
Legacy of Kain's lore is the best imo, so deep, so interpretable
Yes. It’s honestly my favorite single player game tbh.
Yep.
Every single time I see this Legacy of Kain videos, it warms my heart. This series have big and dedicated fanbase. And since Square take they dirty hands off this series, maybe we will get a remake/reboot sometime in the future.
So long as the original writer joins the project...
With important members of the voice cast dead, I don't think it would work. Remaster? Sure. The controls aged poorly. Reboot... No thanks
@@Kougeru Imagine this series made by From Software, with all the attention to details they had in Dark Souls, with help of some original writers. I think this is the only studio, who would do this series justice, and I'm not even big fan of Souls games, but they attention to lore and storytelling would benefit LoK remake.
I actually would love to see a reboot that turned out to be just another cycle, with the new Raziel and Kain learning from what happened before. Maybe that would even been a subtle way to give the original series a canonical ending
@@matthewbixler2728 Agreed, like with FF7 Remake, the reboot is also a continuation.
Ive always considered Kain my hero, since i was 10. Growing up rather powerless in a frequently abusive home, he spoke to me. It was he that showed me that brute strength only got you so far. It was these ideals that led me to give up my fathers dreams for me (to continue with sports since i was good at them) and instead follow my dreams of writing. I often reflect on Kain's tenacity when i'm at a low point, something that continues to push me forward to this day. I cant wait to publish my first book, and in doing so, i'll get my LoK sleeve tattoo as a sign that im finally worthy of Kain's ideals. That i fought the forces around me, to achieve my own dream.
Follow your True Will, brother.
Tatoos are boring , sheeps tattoibg al the time.
@@supergobgoblin424 Lmao at you actually taking the time to write this.
@@EvolutionArchive23 Doing pretty well, seeing as how i don't waste mine to leave hateful comments for no reason. Yeah man, i didn't do the thing that i didn't love. Real waste there.
@@EvolutionArchive23 lmao alrighty breh. I moved to europe and married a swedish model, and started a family. Think I'm doing just fine. Mind your own business.
God I've always LOVED Kain's "Given the Choice" speech
Gives me chills to this day ❤
The dichotomy between Kain and Raziel has to be some of the best writing in all of video games nothing but perfection in storytelling.
kain basically had no idea what/who the Wheel of Fate was, but he felt the meddling hand everywhere. And he was trying to find out who and what it was, who was meddling so much in his fate, until he found out in Defiance.
Kain always felt there were strings attatched, but he couldn't find out by himself, where they led to.
always great to see new vids about LoK from you.
agreed, Kain knew that there is a vicious cycle that's unbroken, he wanted to break it ("suppose you flip a coin enough times, suppose one day, it lands on it's edge") but didn't know where to strike to break it. If he strikes down circle of nine, they'd just come back if the elder god wills it, if he kills anyone that would upset the cycle, elder god would bring them back as their pawns.
Raziel enabled him to see the single point of failure, now Kain knows where to strike.
The conversation Raziel and Kain have at the pillars have new meaning to me now. The line where Kain says, "if Moebius told you I was at the pits of hell would you come all the way down to find me" is such an easy way to describe human nature. In fact, this whole series in general feels like a commentary on human nature. I have seen lots of people online talk with the self righteousness that Raziel does to Kain at the pillars and I just act more like Kain the more I am older.
It's weird, when it comes to online matters, I feel like Vorador from SR2 but when it comes to life I feel more like Kain and Raziel in how much more proactive I want to be.
I think a central question that the story, intentionally or otherwise, brings up is this. What value does morality have to someone who doesn't have a true choice anyway? In that position, surely the 'right' thing to do is to take any action that would give you the choice rather than living under the whims of people who do not have your best interests at heart. Sometimes, the bravest choice is recognising that the choice you have been presented with is not really your choice after all, and working to change that.
That is exactly what I enjoy about the series as well. I've had a few times in my life where I was given a "choice" but people don't actually expect you to walk away from it and do something better with your time. In Kain's case he spent a lot of immortality trying to find a way to fix a problem he didn't create.
Beautifully put and I agree completely 👍
Exactly. Furthermore, this seems to mirror Kain's words at the beginning of Defiance, as he talks about having more options and defy fate, to finally have a real choice. Also, he asks what a king should do. This, to me, would mean 'How can I abuse my power to its full extent to benefit myself ?', in the real world. But, in Kain's case ? No. In his case, it means 'What is the best thing I can do for the sake of the world ?'
the game series shows you that you do have a realy choice the funny thing that this series hammers you over the head with time and time again is to make shure a choice is youre own and not someone els manipulating you,everytime raziel is manipulated he fucks up and everytime he does what he wants they get a stepp further.
I think this is one of the best comments about LoK ever made. But this is LoK only from Kain's point of view. There is also LoK from Raziel viewpoint and the lesson it presents: As a being with true free will, Raziel must come to accept responsability for his actions. He spend the better part of most games trying to undo things he consider evil, and for which he feels guilty about. In the first game, he tries his best to undo the vampiric empire he helped to create. In the second, he undoes the fated fight between him and Kain that would result in Kain's death. In the third, he tries to undo the evil he himself did to Janos Audron so many years ago, and in the very end, he undoes the doom of Nosgoth and the false fate Kain has to contend with.
i love the legacy of kain.
on one hand i am sad, that the series is dead, but on the other i am happy it is. if i imagine what the mad people in their greed could have done to this series, makes me happy it is not continued.
i always loved kain the most. his voice alone cought me emediatly. and the depth of the character is something rarely seen.
Can you imagine this game with microtransactions, paid for skins, some grindy leveling system designed to make you want to pay to advance? This series was a product of its era, and that era, much like Nosgoth, is dead. I'm glad it existed, but I'd hate to see a creeping ghoul of a remake destroying a once proud series.
If we got dark prophecy then I'd be happy
Squenix sold the legacy of kain rights for nft money. Hope burns anew.
"Let's drop the moral posturing, shall we?! We both know there's no altruism in this pursuit. Your reckless indignation lead you here, I counted on it! There's no shame in it, Raziel, revenge is motivation enough -- at least it's honest. Hate me -- but do it honestly."
That whole exchange is some of the best writing in videogames to date, and it tells you everything you need to know about Kain. He's morally ambiguous, seeming evil on the surface, but there's no question that he has strong integrity. The series' main theme has always been about destiny and fatalism, as it's the easiest thing to talk about, but from the perspective of the characters, especially Kain, he put a really important question on the table as well: "What is a king to do?"
Looking at it from his perspective, as a character and as a creature, he isn't just a king, he is a god. "Do you not feel with all your soul how we've become like gods? And as such, are we not indivisible? As long as a single one of us stands, we are legion."
And as such, being the one destined to become the Scion of Balance, he knows he must take action, for the manipulations he suffered in his youth can't be easily undone. His reckless actions fuelled by revenge and bloodlust and misguided self-righteousness are what compelled him to kill the young boy king before turning into the Nemesis, and that in turn, became the main reason why Moebius began a genocidal war on vampires, effectively wiping them from the world, leaving Kain as the last one. After all that, Kain's final selfish decision to not sacrifice was the right one. He was the last, truly powerful being left on the world. Nobody could stop him at that point. He could've continued living on top of the world, but as he matured, his values changed. He realized the world was slowly dying and something had to be done. So he took Moebius's place and used the chronoplast to study history and learn as much as he could to try to alter his fate, and with it, the fate of the world.
And armed with all that knowledge, he had Raziel thrown into the abyss. He would not throw him with his own hands, however. He doesn't want to do it. Raziel is his own Childe, after all, and he knows full well what will happen to him... but it must be done. And he has faith that Raziel will chase him through history, so that he may also be able to arm himself with knowledge and truth.
It's absolutely brilliant storytelling and every little piece of story in these games clearly show just how deep Kain is as a character, and I'm sure most LoK fans don't even realize it. Kain is THE most complex hero ever, going from victim, to villain, to anti-hero, to greatest hero that ever lived. In fact, if there was ever a continuation of the story, thousands of years after Kain finally managed to restore Nosgoth, that the story of his actions would become as religious gospel for future generations in-universe. A true, living, breathing god walked the world, as the ancient vampires once had, and through many hardships, being born corrupted and murdered and reborn again as a vampire, dedicated most of his life studying and planning for the best course of action to save Nosgoth.
I often relate to Kain more as an adult as well as admire his character more in general. I obviously related heavily to Raziel in my youth since the name has very much become my own. I still love Raziel but Kain is now the one I relate to and admire the most
The best thing about this famdon is that in our early stage we were more like Raziel and in our adult stage Kain's point of view is understendable.
The series entire premise, lore and story can be summarized as: Young Kain vs Elder Kain.
Young Kain is selfish, he cares only for power and he kills friend and foe alike who he sees as a threat to his rule. Nosgoth after belongs to him and him alone. He doesn't care if it is a broken world so long as he rules it. A tyrant and horrible king.
Old Kain is more complicated. He has learned the forbidden truth of the illusion of free will and seeks to break the Wheel of Fate. He is still not a hero because he is desperate, he after all fights the impossible: fate itself. He is willing to do whatever it takes just like younger Kain but while his younger self only wanted power, elder Kain wants truth and freedom. And when the true enemy is revealed, Kain even discover one of the best qualities of life: hope.
Old Kain will remain a monarch of a dying world but he will use his power to ensure that free will is no longer determined by the horrible parasite who has brought Nosgoth and all it's people to their knees for countless millennia. Kain has become a wise and noble King.
And to think that Dark Prophecy would have both Kains. What better way to end the series than a final showdown with yourself? After all, there can be only one King. Vae Victis!
I feel like old kain behaves like that because he is mad that there was no way for him to save nosgoth . He knew the timeline he was in was done for yet he couldn’t find a solution until he does . Thats when we see the big change in his character…maybe hope does it for him.
Don't forget how enormously difficult it would have been for him to change like that, he was afflicted with the madness that destroyed the entire circle, so it's not just normal character growth, he would have had to find some kind of iron will to resist the madness and be rational enough to seek the truth and fight the impossible.
I feel like it's often overlooked just how difficult that must have been to fend of his twisted destiny, the schemes of the powerful, history and literal madness all at the same time.
In his own words, Kain was tainted from the moment of his birth. He even says this in a cutscene. So yes, it is a wonder that he has come as far as he has.
not really, get over yourself.
It would have been bad ass, because Dark Prophecy was going to take place partly in the Hylden realm. Maybe he was going to save Janos.
I GENUINELY love it when a game asks you if you’re sure you’re doing the right thing and has the writing and characters to look you dead in the eyes and go “How sure are you that’s the right choice?”
"Hate me, but do it honestly!"
I've said it before, but that line really has become hauntingly relevant in these last several years. People will blindly despise and hate others for the littlest of things, often to the point of blinding themselves to the truth. Kain's line is extremely poignant, as he makes it clear that there isn't anything necessarily wrong with being hateful, but that it should at least be done with a clear understanding of WHY someone would choose to hate instead of operating purely out of spite or misguidance.
Such a master class in character development and voice acting. This game series was once in a lifetime. I wish more people had been exposed to it because it’s impossible to get new people to understand. LOVE that you’re keeping the franchise alive for us fans.
The dialogue in the series is amazing. As a child it made me look up several of the words I really didn't understand. As a result I can appreciate vocabulary and even look to improve my own.
I never played the original Blood Omen, with Soul Reaver being my introduction to the series. So from the start, I identified with Raziel a lot more than Kain. Raziel, whatever his failures, wanted to do the "right thing", but his fate is plagued by manipulators who simply play the game better than he does. Raziel is honorable in character to a fault, his loyalty to Janos set the stage for a Hylden resurgence. His good moral characteristics make him easy to manipulate, in a way making Raziel his own worst enemy.
Kain on the other hand has realized that the only path to victory, real victory, lay through playing the game of fate better than his foes. It took time, but eventually he came to see that his "choice" to sacrifice or save Nosgoth was no choice at all. His ideal victory of restoring the Pillars and thus Nosgoth could only lay in finding his hidden third option, which required the sacrifice of everything and everyone he held dear, Raziel most of all.
TL;DR: Raziel does the right thing for the wrong reason, while Kain does the wrong thing for the right reason. By balancing the one against the other, there is a chance to overcome the truly malicious foes. It is a brilliant dynamic and I hope we see the ending of their story someday.
It's actually funny because I started with Soul Reaver 1 and 2 and then played Blood Omen 1 and 2.
And even during my gameplay through the Soul Reaver games something drew me more towards Kain than Raziel. I loved and identified with Raziel. Then, I played the BO games, and then Defiance, and I realized I sympathized way more with Kain than Raziel(but I still got Raziel in my heart).
@@KingNexusMOCs Yeah, pretty much the same experience. It was in SR 2 that I really began to understand just how complex Kain is as a character, not just a one dimensional "bad guy". The way Kain manages to get Raziel to reconsider his circumstances works just as well on us, the audience, to see that there are no black and white answers, and certainly no easy fixes for Nosgoth.
Ironically Raziel wasn't lying about choosing integrity as he sacrificed himself to purify the Reaver and maybe Kain in the process
"Self righteous little twit" is the funniest description I've ever heard for Raziel! 🤣🤣🤣
it's from Amy Hennig herself :)
This needs to be an animated show on netflix with the original writer at the helm.
Season 1 - Blood Omen: Legacy of kain
Season 2 - Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver
So on and so forth. This deserves a full-on storied display for more to see!
I was 8 when my dad bought Soul Reaver, and at that age, it was beyond my grasp the existence of a world, of a story, with no clear cut good and bad guys, just a whole lot of conflict of interests...
That keep on scaling and growing....
Kain and his gamble to restore nosgoth and himself to be the ruler of a sustained land.
Raziel on his crusade for revenge and then for answers.
Moebious and his mixed motivations to extinguish the vampires, from the mandate of god to the young and scared child that was taken away to be transformed into a monster, only to become one by choice.
Mortanious and his plan for redemption once he found out what the pillars were for.
The old winged ones, whose war against the Hylden was just a purge of the heretics that defied their god's work.
The Hylden who didn't want to submit to mortality and wanted to rule above all.
And The Elder God, so eloquently put by Raziel, hidding is hunger in a shroud of righteousness.
Everyone wanted something, the heroes of their own story. I will never forget this series.
Thank you for your work. Cheers!
I could honestly hear hundred of hours of Raziel and Kain talking about morality and I wouldnt get bored
These two characters are so iconic when it comes to story telling
"You're lifespan, is a flicker, compared to mass of doubt and regret I have borne since Mortanius first turned me from The Light." OH! The Writing. Chef's kiss.
The story of Kain is truly a masterpiece in itself.
Great video!
In a nutshell, Kain is secretly a good guy who has to do bad-guy shit in order to set the playing field for the good ending. Depending on which Kain you’re talking about will vary one’s opinion of him.
I also grew up with the legacy of Kain series. I tried to figure out the story of this game for so long. it took me years to figure out and I finally figured it out at some point in the past. I love this games story the most out of all the games I play partly cause I loved the challenge it took to figure out.
I got chills at the pillars scene. Great work as always, SF!
I meant the Soul Reaver 1 scene, but the SR2 scene gives me chills too. I love the OST.
The pre-rendered intro cutscene in Soul Reaver still looks DAMN GOOD even now despite being from the PlayStation 1 era. Where even now even pre-rendered CGI from those days have not aged all that well alongside the in-game graphics.
One small problem, probably, at 11:17; Kain doesn't seem to know about the Hylden until after the third Raziel paradox. It's possible he knew and lost the knowledge after the first or second Raziel paradox, but there's no indication until the end of Soul Reaver 2. He does seem to know that his death with not restore the pillar of balance and he needs Raziel to do so.
Alternatively, he is still aware of a puppeteer behind Mobius. That mystery figure could be the implication of his allusions at that point.
Does that mean that all of Blood Omen 2 got retconned by paradox? Because if so, that's kinda sad. I liked the weird Hylden vampire hybrid oracle, she was cool. I'm hoping he just chose to gloss over the whole Hylden problem, fearing that it would distract Raziel too much from his main goal. But it's hard to speculate about the motives of a mad balance guardian. :\
@@MadamFoogie Blood Omen 2 is a result of the end of Defiance, where we see the pillars explode. So it does still happen, but it is also overwritten.
@@MadamFoogie As Drudicta said. Blood Omen 2 Is the "final" game in the series' noodly timeline. The reason for Vorador's living in BO2 has not yet been uncovered, but he was decapitated in Blood Omen, so that's not a timeline he can be in. Rumor has it that the oracle was to be in the next game, had it continued and you'd play as Kain as a young vampire and as his ancient form.
Leave it to LoK to make things as convoluted as possible. History abhors a paradox, and so does my mental timeline. I've been a fan of the series since it began, and I still can't wrap my head around all of it! Feels like I need to make a set of flashcards or something to study with.
My god. Each video you make following this series makes me love the series more. Thank you for your videos, you provide such wonderful insight into what is arguably one of the best pieces of video game storytelling. The concept of morality and free will in the Legacy of Kain franchise is so fascinating and puts so much into perspective.
I happened upon Blood Omen as a teen and became instantly obsessed with the game. I'd played nothing like it before. The story is engaging. The puzzles were interesting and varied. The story gripping. It's a true gem of a game. Probably considered clunky by todays standards, it still holds a special place in my heart.
¡Gracias!
How many times can I rewatch the same videos? For eternity I will.
9:57 Best lines ever. Conscience..... 👌
I always loved how in the Legacy of Kain world everyone is either wanting to manipulate Kain/Raziel for their own will or for the will of those manipulating the manipulators.
Kain basically came to the conclusion; "Play or get played" and took it to heart
All your Legacy of Kain content is king!!!
Thanks for this. I feel like you unearth some of the reasons that these two characters still inspire loyalty and the desire for more games even so long after the series ended. I guess I personally appreciate Kain's pragmatism as a character and I feel he had a really strong character journey across the whole series, from wild youth to father figure (of a form)
It's telling that when Kain first met Raziel when he returned from the Abyss, he ambigously insinuated that if Raziel was given the choice to sacrifice himself for the sake of the world that he would falter out of selfishness like Kain did.
In the end, Raziel WAS more courageous that Kain, willingly allowing himself to not only die, but to have his soul trapped in the Reaver to protect the world.
I feel like Simon Templeman's performance also helps to really sell all of Kain's more subtle personality traits, and the slow but clear arc he takes through the series. You can always tell what he's feeling but never what he's thinking which just makes the character all the more enjoyable. Kain and Loghain (another villain played by Simon) are two of my favorite villains in all of video games for similar reasons of being damn near if not entirely irredeemable, but completely understandable characters.
I always thought Loghain’s VA sounded familiar! Makes sense why I like him so much.
What game was Loghain in?
@@labelledamedumanor4876 Dragon Age: Origins. It's a great game that even if it's a bit old it's held up fairly well and if you like lore heavy RPGs I'd highly recommend it.
@@labelledamedumanor4876 Dragon Age Origins and Inquisition.
Dude, thanks so much for this. The LOK series has to one of the best ever. Thank you so much for delving so deep into its lore. It is such a complex series with so many twists and turns that it is sometimes difficult to accurately access all of the details. You make that happen with these videos. Thanks again. I enjoyed this one so much as I did all the others
It has always been team Kain for me. He had the benefit of immortality so he could learn and become so much more than what is allowed in a human lifespan. He did what he wanted and how he wanted as best he could, and as he lived longer and longer, what he wanted shifted not unlike regular people.
Man I love the work you put into these LOK vids. Thank you.
LoK is a series with fantastic writing, a true passion project. It's nice to see creators like you exploring and dissecting the characters so more people can appreciate the franchise in more depth.
Kain is truly a CHAD and a magnificent character!
One thing I always liked about Kain calling out Raziel for trying to find an excuse for his revenge being righteous is how he only takes issue with it being a mask, whereas Raziel just wanting revenge would have been fine. Considering his debut was avenging his own murder in pretty much the same way Raziel believes he’s doing, he knows he can’t tell him he’s wrong for seeking it and even goes in the opposite direction saying “revenge is motivation enough, at least it’s honest. Hate me, but do it honestly.” It’s a nice detail in making his character more consistent and having him relate to Raziel.
I’m so glad I found this channel, we need this series to return and continue to the next chapter
Your videos on this series are always such a treat for me. I also grew up with this series as a kid. I always found Kain to be such a bad ass growing up because of all his cool powers, but as I got older and started to understand it's much more mature themes I really began to appreciate Kain more for his thought provoking and interesting dialogues with Raziel and, like you said, his sheer determination to attempt to fix Nosgoth.
I was just rewatching the Kain character study before going to classes, and when I came back saw this brand new upload. Amazing work as always!
Thank you so much for continuing to put out videos studying this story. It's like getting to view my favorite series from new eyes with each installment, and I'm always amazed by your insights and attention to details. I look forward to the next one!
i think if Kain would shed a couple of tears while saying " the abyss has been unkind" in a somewhat unpossible remaster it would be pretty cool
A heavily underrated game. Few videogame characters intrigued me as much as Kain.
Fantastic video, so rare to find people who cover this series and almost none who cover it in the way you do. This video was such a delight as a fan of the series, and hearing some of this dialogue again was just a nostalgia trip. Thank you for that, have a like and a subscribe.
Thank you. I appreciate the kind words.
L.O.K. was ahead of its time....I would love to see a fleshed out game of Vampire Raziel or even the Ancient wars between Vampires and Hilden race.
Perhaps even put the first type of Whare wolves in there.
Kain will always be my favorite character in legacy of kain series. He's both hero and villain of this story.
That's one thing this series always did amazing for me; showing the complexity of morals or ethics is never clear cut...
Thanks for another study in this series Strictly!
This is still one of my favourite videos on Legacy of Kain.
Absolutely loved this video! From start to finish, I've never identified with either character because as I grew up playing this game from being very young a long time ago, I resulted in ending up being characteristically like Kain due to his beaming influence. And as it rubbed off on me couple times a year every very few years during my time alive, it's affected me, everything I've learnt about him again and again over the years has just stacked the influence up more and more. So while I may not act like him, a good 90% of my behaviour was influenced from Kain and has now become integral within' my own personality, absorbed if you will. Yet I cannot change it, not that I would.
Where I am from, the common people mis-perceive me as a lot of the stuff you've described Kain as throughout the video during his early days of being blood bound, those that knew me I mean, failed to see my complex morality just like a lot of people misjudged Kain's. But fail to see my 'changes' for the inconceivable good that I make for others and myself. Instead I become branded a villain, I've led quite an unfortunate life myself and made some questionable decisions that the ancient (in age) Kain would've made. Maybe not as grandeur a plot(s) as Kain's and Raziel's but unfortunate nevertheless, I am at the point right now where Kain gets wiser as his 'Empire' crumbles, but instead of Empire it's my family that is doing the crumbling (as we have a very big family). In short, in a modern real life day, I can be hard to deal with. Especially in a bad mood heh!
Anyway, I am praying hands and feet that this survey becomes a game some day. Needless to say, thanks a lot for this video, it was like staring in a mirror hearing you speak about Kain's behavioural traits and moral philosophy. All this I've said, is extremely uncanny to me, even still to this day.
Immediate subscribe + like from me! :)
Finally someone made a video with what I have argued with people for so long about the story, especially about Kain. Love this video!
The more I grow, the more I side with Kain, rather than Raziel.
Great video, thank you so much! Love when this series gets another new retrospective or analysis. I remember even just 5 years ago there were so few. And in nearly ever one tho, you really notice when clips come together, I hate the constant 4-note music loop in nearly every big dialogue scene/ Pillar scene throughout Soul Reaver 2 - once you notice it, it drives you crazy. it's like a 5 second loop over and over!
Raziel was in general my favorite character from a protagonist standpoint, as he was learning the truth together with you. But really what I felt was the best thing was how well they complete each other. While Raziel was being driven by revenge first, I just love that over the entire franchise he comes full circle back to Kain, arguably to a stage where they both clearly better friends and allies than at the start.
I would've loved to see a continuation of the story as I feel that after Raziels self sacrifice there would be no stone Kain would leave unturned to try and free his best and true friend from the reaver somehow
Legacy of Kain is the kind of story that I can’t help but go down a rabbit hole every once in awhile.
That's the same thing with me and Kingdom hearts.
I really appreciate kain as a character, he's the perfect mix of selfishness and selflessness. Honestly, I feel there should more of these types of characters.
Although this is VERY controversial and it wouldn't surprise me if people questioned my sanity, but the hylden general is actually my favorite character in LOK and if possible I'd really like a character study of him.
Hylden are victims of Elder's tyrrany as much as everyone else, if not more. Lord Hylden did terrible things both to the world and to our cast of characters, but his actions are justified from his point of view. He is the leader of his banished people, and his sole motivation is to bring them back home, to the world without wars, suffering and gods. Or, at least, to avenge their kind. So yeah, he's a cool dude.
Interesting choice of favorite character. What do you like about him?
@@strictlyfantasy so grateful you're not questioning my sanity, but I'll try to be brief. Basically, he's the one who made this all HAPPEN, he killed Ariel which caused nupraptor to corrupt the pillers which in turn put raziel and kain in this seemingly unwinnable situation. I like characters who are somewhat amoral, powerful AND have a good head on their shoulders. In regards to him being amoral, I know his methods are............ questionable but I think he has pretty good reasons for doing what he does. I mean he wants what best for people and he wants revenge on the vampires for screwing over his entire race. People can say what they want but I totally understand and empathize with Mr. Hash'ah'gik.
General is a low title compared to who he actually was. He was the Hylden Elder and Lord.
@@selensewar true they were completely right to turn against the elder god but pay the price for it
There's something about Kain's remark on his personal despise of imposed self-righteousness to cover more selfish primal desires for revenge that resonates with me, specially in these times of frequent hollow witchhunts we live in. "Hate me, but do it honestly", it's such a brutal yet undeniable piece of truth. I bet a lot of these 'champions of justice' we so often see in social media and even in real life nowadays would never actually be able to stand before their own mirrored self. Horror would cast them away, as so many did when they confronted the magic mirror from Neverending Story that revealed people exactly as what they truly were.
After so many centuries of existence, you gotta grant Kain one of the most underappreciated yet most valuable gits anyone can get: a deep retrospective knowledge of himself, both his lighter and his darker side. Something Raziel still needs to learn through his own journey. Nothing illustrates that better as the moment he fights and destroyes his past Saraphan self, as he spits the line "I despise you". Hating him honestly, just as Kain requested him to do.
I'm the same as you, when I was young, I identified more on Raziel because of his morality. But as an adult, after experiencing life and seeing the world through an observer's standpoint, I've come to realize his naivete and appreciate how Kain did things. Kain chose to do the hardest things to get the most desirable result; a choice that is rarely chosen.
What series I found the legacy of kain series when I was 8 years old on the dreamcast. i was hooked immediately. I've always identified with kain. Raziel is such a excellent character himself. The twist and turns environment and dialog of this series were completely something in itself. To this day I play through the series every couple of years. It feels like home every single time. Excellent video my friend. Vae victis!
"Kain does the right thing for the wrong reasons, while Raziel does the wrong thing for the right reasons." Perfect
That is a perfect little encapsulation of their characters.
I like what you said about liking Raziel more as a kid, but relating to Kain more as you get older. Definitely resonates with me. I love your LOK essays!
im happy we are getting a remaster and continuation of the series
This game is hugely influential on my art career and my life, it's very dear to my heart it's story it's themes it's depth its lore everything about it, it's forever immortalised and apart of me, games such a life changing experience, 0ver 3 decades later I constantly still think on this game, your an absolute legend covering this game, I thankyou 🤘
Legacy of kain has some of the best writting. As always great video strictly fantasy.
I would love a Legacy of Kain reboot or remake. Soul Reaver is still to this day one of my favorite games ever. The story telling waa top notch. Voice acting unparred. A current gen game is what i have been wanting for years. Subbed. Great video.
Thanks. Yeah, I'd love to see a remake too as long as they use the same voice actors who are still alive and use the audio recordings for those who have sadly passed away. I can't see anyone else replacing Tony Jay as the Elder God.
One of the best of your videos
Absolutely 💯 outstanding video thanks!!!!😎👍👍👍👍👍
So glad to see that you're continuing this series, the character profiles were great, and I'm looking forward to seeing your further analysis!
Thank you :)
I'll never get tired of seeing videos on this legendary series. I can Holy hope someday they mite do a new version with updated graphics but keep the audio since id feel bad for anyone trying to fill those shoes of the originals
Honestly the LOK videos on this channel mean so much to me. Please keep these up
Wow I always watch this series before I go to sleep, it’s good to see someone still making content.
Ever since Soul Reaver 2, Kain's refusal to sacrifice sounded more like an act of spite and indignation, rather than greed. To me, he was like "f- this world and f- you in particular, Ariel. I'm not doing this."
I just wanted to say I really really like your UA-cam channel! I especially enjoy your Legacy of Kain videos. I grew up loving those games dearly and I find their themes and esthetic incredibly evocative. Your videos are a thoughtful dive into nostalgia for me. Thanks! I hope you keep creating!
Always appreciate people appreciating this series. Thanks for the work you put in on this video. Cheers
The Legacy of Kain series is to videogames what Shakespeare is to theater. A master class in writing.
I feel like I used to relate to Raziel more when I was younger as well. Also relate more to Kain now as an adult too. The narrative between the two is just fantastic and your videos are great as well. Keep up the good work.
These games deserve a remake. They would be so good and amazing settings.
I love this game so much all of them. I will always appreciate hearing someone talk more about these games. We must manifest a true sequel to LOKD. This recent fan remaster of SR1 has given me what the end of lokd gave Kane, hope.
Many thanks for keeping alive our beloved and great franchise with such elegant insights
Very well written video, you drew visible parallels between the characters and gave clear cut examples, without just repeating the story from the games. I think there is another character who is easy to overlook that acts in selflessness, and that is Rahab. He is loyal to his master to the end, and holds no animosity towards Kain, unlike his brothers, to the point he is even entrustsed knowlodge (to a certain degree) of Kain’s plan, letting him know that he will be killed by Raziel so the pieces fall into the right place.
I too find myself identifying with Kain more as an adult and Raziel as a child (I even considered playing Kain the worst parts of Defiance, now its the reverse).
I'm right there with you when learning to appreciate Kains character more as an adult.
I've always heard of these but had no idea I'd be so hooked! The voice work here is really really good and makes the characters so engaging!
A great analysis-well done. Legacy of Kain game series is a masterpiece--the story writing, the dialogue, the vocal performance sets the bar high for all others. It is a crying shame that the creators and voice actors are not honored enough, instead of the drivel that people are fed from Hollywood.
Great content as usual friend, something about the legacy of kain draws me in time and again
Ive rewatched several retrospectives over a span of weeks, trying to understand the entire moral scope of what Kain was doing in this and only recently did it hit me what his actions truely were aligning. Good vid.