Well Werewolf was one of the original forms of the "find the traitor" game. Mafia was the initial form when it was first done in Russia while Werewolf was the imported version.
@@sanstheazmo I have not seen executioner or jester once, except in videos. Frankly, I haven't actually played much at all, and a good portion of those were in 4 horseman
Don't worry. They decided that coven needed next level of hell with the Wildling. At the end of night you just get spewed crap ton of info if I understand it correctly at night lol.
at lot of mafia's roles were incorporated into the coven though. it's for the better, 15 player lobbies just can't support 3 clashing factions in a balanced way
The amount of new content in this actually makes the game so much more complex, like basically anything could be wrong, if a sheriff finds you sus it might have been wrong and if they find you in no then it might be wrong too. This seems extremely chaotic and I'm all for it
@@brianfrommars In the roblox parody of TOS, theres a role like Deputy that kills during the day. It goes completely horrible, I'm excited for this in the real game
@@bloxer9563 bloxston mystery is heavily influenced by this game so yeah, tho theres no looking and acting inside the house during night. you just see the town square the whole time
The fact that neutral evil rolls "walk away from the town" after reaching their goal seems honestly good since they no longer have any reason to play other than messing with one side.
@@unknowed5048 They do? That is weird lmao, interacting with the dead… but it would be boring otherwise. I thought maybe they’d stay alive (as in no dead chat) but just can’t vote or be targeted for any abilities. Just cause it would be boring if they couldn’t talk. Maybe color the text or label NE so you know who not to listen to. But, I get that it would be odd to keep them in living chat, so fair enough. Edit: added “(as in no dead chat)” as they aren’t _technically_ dead
@@unknowed5048 personal headcannon: The neutral evils become mediums after winning because they feel as though they accomplished everything in life and wanna learn about the afterlife.
The change of Jailor losing the ability to execute vs the ability JAIL is... it makes mistakes (or griefing) FAR more costly. *Adding more as I watch* Ritualist == Death Note Cue fight between an Investigator and Ritualist named L and Light.
I also assume that "You walk away from town in victory" means that once exe pirate etc win, they can no longer vote, so can't influence the rest of the game. Might be wrong.
I'm calling it now, the pro jester strat might be to fake claim investigator and then give a ToS 1 investigator will, pretend it's one of your first games and you didn't know it changed. Or claim Surv and act confused when everyone tells you surv doesn't exist in this game.
The best one I thought of is pretending to act like an insane vigilante, telling the town to lynch you or it's gonna make you random shoot. Like how a vigi gets controlled?
The new Ritualist/Doomsayer roles appear to be aimed at hard countering the "vote for role" strategy, by introducing an element of risk to claiming your role. Openly claiming your role could now open yourself up to an attack that the TP can't save you from.
from the games i've seen so far, this basically made most of the Town roles utterly useless, even Mayor, which whole thing was being able to easily confirm...
War and Death is a Dangerious Pair, Wining the Game in 4 Days and 3 Nights if not Detected(war's Mortal form Kills and Deaths mortal form gets the Soul and the nightly Passive soul, 3 nights and They Enter their Horseman forms)
"Seven is arso." "Bullshit, you're lying!" *whips out a revolver, shoots seven, hits bullet proof arsonist vest* "I TOLD YOU HE WAS EVIL!" *gets lynched, was executioner* "My work here is done." *rides off into sunset, gets eaten by werewolf*
Not many people noticing the equally hilarious scenario where an extremely confident deputy just randomly shoots someone they're certain is evil only to fall over dead after being wrong.
is it just me or do a lot of these new roles seem insanely powerful? especially with the coven having a lot of killing roles on top of all the other abilities
Kinda of a weird choice to remove the other teams like Mafia and Vamps. All any games are usually best when there are several evil factions not just one.
True bro , it's always fun seeing the coven and mafia fighting each other while the town is dealing with the vamps and nk slowly but surely sneak his way through
I wouldn't be surprised if one day we get a "Return of Mafia" expansion or something. At least I really hope we get one. All Any just won't be as chaotic and exciting without the potential for two rival evil factions.
If you do propose then you and your lover should have defence and anyone who attacks your lover (as the admirer) will be revealed to you That sounds balanced
@blubba843 does a person lose their original role when they accept a proposal, or is like regular lovers from tos. If they keep their original roles then that makes for some interesting scenarios where evils cannot accept under any circumstances- which could be good for information gathering.
Feign is another deception game with an ‘Insane’ role in which the person believes that they are a certain role and at night they get random results. For example, if I’m insane then on my side it tells me I’m a tracker and if I track someone at night I can see them visit someone even if they didn’t. For other people, I just stayed home. I’m basically just feeding false information to everyone and believing it to be real. It’s such a cool concept that I wish more games did
Not quite, its just guaranteed that the player you pick is in the vision. Doesn't change anything else so doesn't create a Monty Hall problem since we aren't guaranteed that the player we picked is good or evil.
Hoping for a comparison video of roles from ToS1 to ToS2. I get that some of them are obvious, like Doctor and Escort got renamed, Juggernaut became a horseman, and Coven absorbed the Mafia, but having them all cleanly shown off in a video would be cool. Or gameplay, that'd work.
This looks so cool!!!! The only thing that would concern me is just how getting the insane status would probably just cause people to rage-quit, as it doesn’t look like they can do anything else.
I like that winning pirate/exe leave the town, seems like a decent idea Not sure about how there are roles who can kill you if they know what you are, as I feel people won't be claiming and it will be a mess/random lynching
That alongside the ability to kill in the day via conjurer, coven has A LOT of killing potential it seems. I wonder how players are supposed to information gather with such a strict time limit and inhibition. If the conjurer has a limit then that would be balanced.
If your willing to answer, how balanced is the coven in this. My first impression from seeing conjurer + coven Leader is that coven can kill every phase. That seems to make lynching VERY costly if chosen wrong no?
@@msepiphqny I was part of the third wave and I played some different modes (town traitor, all any, some set role lists). I will say Coven tends to win all any most of the time when they have a full team, which is 5 now. All the other modes I played felt balanced, the day time killing roles are really fun, it makes the day so chaotic. The devs have been updating it regularly and listening to all of our feedback, so I’m excited for everyone else to be able to enjoy it :)
@@UncreativePF Coven in all any can be a bit OP, they can have up to 5 members now. Conjurer can only kill once when the don’t have the book which helps a little, but I definitely noticed more coven wins in all any. The feature that bans roles helps keep things balanced though. The devs are also really listening to our feedback, so there are sure to be plenty of little tweaks after the release :)
Fun fact for anyone who sees this, both the Town Power role alignment and the Shroud are famous suggestions from the ToS forums. Obviously I don't know BMG's process for adding them but TPow was used for ages as a way to section Jailor and Mayor off from TK/TS slots and the Shroud bears an uncanny resemblance to murat1996's "Shadowalker" role idea from 2015.
Apparently they specifically designed the game to remove "kingmaker" situations. Now you win and lose on your own terms instead of a surv that you pissed off three turns ago siding with arsonist.
I have one thing to say. Death sounds metal as hell, a literal living timebomb you need to defuse in one day, or lose the game. These are gonna be great games.
Tons of this stuff as a huge ranked player of the first Town of Salem looks incredibly good. Tons of metas are forced to be removed/rethought, tons of decision making will be even more incorporated as any wrong moves and you can make yourself looks suspicious even more, and tons of new roles being added so evils can claim more fake roles. Though some things scare me of TOS 2. First off tons of roles have been majorly reworked and in general worse. Mayor is a great example. In TOS 1 once a mayor reveals they will gain 3 votes instead of 1 and can only be saved by BG or jailor. But in TOS 2 Mayor is a huge risk to get as not even BG can save them now and relies on jailor, but if jailor exes someone then mayor is basically a sitting duck. Plus if Mayor reveals then an evil / neutral role can just instantly guess them and kill them, making it even more of a risk. There are tons more changes but don’t wanna put in all in this. 2nd is the removal of Mafia. Mafia was the staple of TOS 1 and completely removing them leaves a huge dissatisfaction of wanting to switch over to the newer game. I think a good thing to add is what TOS 1 had and had a Coven / Mafia button so people can play which ever one they wanted and maybe just reskin all the coven roles with mafia forms so it can feel like you are playing the true OG TOS again. 3rd is the new texture stuff. Looking from TOS 1 game look and the Traitors game look really didn’t want me to switch to traitors. The TOS 1 old feeling with no 3Dness at all is what I truly loved it for. With upgrading the graphics, to me it looks like I am looking at polished rubber. And 4th is the running of the game. Tons of TOS 1 games just felt abandoned and over ran with purposely throwing, spamming, and even cheating without any punishments happening to them. What would be a good system is hire supporter members inside of TOS (made up by people who knows what they are doing Game and work wise) and has the option to go to a site hosted by the creators of TOS and can do a supporter votes to determine if it’s true throwing, spamming or cheating. I feel like all of these changes would make the new game the best as possible, but they are my opinions and other people can vary opposing mine. Feel free to express opinions if any of you agree/disagree and hope the devs see our thoughts
I like the enchanter being a fusion of forger and framer, framer has always been the worst role but im glad to see it's function added to a better role
I feel like games will go very quickly with these roles. Many roles seem to be able do dish out Powerful attacks and I wonder if there are enough protective roles to counter them
"They will walk away from the Town in victory" so does that mean winning Neutrals simply exit the game? In that case, is negotiating with neutrals to side you just dead? That's a huge nerf to NKs if so imo
@Tawnyami I doubt it according to exe, info they grief any person that voted guilty or abstaines dealing unstoppable damage, sounds like they stay with that, it's just victory
Idk. From the way its worded and considering the current game, it seems like a way to tell players that they have secured their win. I don't think they automatically leave the game cuz that'd be kinda weird
You'll exit the game in that it's like you died, not a disconnect. They want to lessen kingmaker shenanigans, it seems, since amne is now town, and surv no longer exists.
Town of Salem 2 rewording all the roleblock effects from sleeping with your target to getting piss-drunk with them is *very funny* to me. It's also probably more tasteful, let's be honest, not that it wasn't a source of crass comedy in its own right, but being a Charismatic Tavern-Keeper who can convince *anyone* to drink themselves into a stupor on a whim is *very funny* to me. I also *love* that the Poisoner is now a roleblocker, I think that's a great rework for the role.
Killing during the day is a very exciting new mechanic. I can already imagine getting into a final 1v1, the other guy says "gg ez win" and you can say "lol nope" and shoot him dead on the spot. But I do wonder, is a Conjurer vs Deputy 1v1 a tie, or does it become a quickdraw duel for who can hit their day kill button first? That would be fun, but I imagine it's more likely that you select a target during discussion, and there's a day action phase that triggers before voting begins.
I don't see many people talking about shroud surprisingly. The idea of being able to make roles like tis and tps kill their targets seems like a really fun concept.
@@universalperson The fate was still kinda sealed when they picked Pestilence, since there's pretty much no chance Conquest would get in as long as Pestilence was there.
So much of what you said differs from what is actually written on the cards (im assuming the spoken part was recorded before some updates on the cards?), so that just adds to the confusion and natural questions that arise with some of these roles. That said...TOS 2 GET HYPE!
Funny thing, the game that made the role 'Seer' iconic was "Ultimate Werewolf". UW's Seer is likely what ToS's Sheriff was based off of, but ToS2's Seer is actually 1-to-1 a different UW's role called the 'Mentalist'.
Maf has been absorbed into the Coven. On the one hand, kinda sad to see the 3-way bickering between Town, Maf and Coven is gone, all trying to pit the other 2 against each other. But at the same time, the NK's and the NA's can still fill that role somewhat
I hated most of the Mafia roles, but damn... I was expecting the whole faction to get reworked, not just morphed into Coven. I guess it is for balancing? Since Mafia + Coven + Neutral would result in Town losing more often than not. Either way, a sad decision. :'(
@@blackmailed1072 That, and the game is literally bamed after the SALEM Witch Trials, so the Mafia being there never made sense from a timeline perspective. Granted certain others that are also still in the game like Spy and Pirate could be similarly condemned, but whatever.
TOWN - The coroner sounds interesting. - Investigator has been heavily nerfed, now you only know is someone attacked someone? - LO is a neat change, nerfed quite a bit (no confirming other LOs, and cant see astral things). - Psychic seems to overall be the same, don't understand why you would put someone in your visions. maybe you put a confirmed evil in the good vision to confirm a good person and a confirmed good person in the evil vision to lower the options? So just a buff I guess. I mean heavily nerfed with the enchanter/illusionist being able to affect it, but in a game without either of those, its an overall buff. - Seer seems to have the same idea as the Psychic good vision would. - Sheriff is unchanged. - Spy is buffed because they can see affects on a player, but otherwise unchanged. - Tracker is the same (unless the astra visits not being seen is new). - So the Deputy and Vigi seem to be the same role acting at different times. - The trickster sounds like a beguiler from the better TOS mod, but only against attacking roles. sounds fairly useful though - Vet is unchanged. - Sounds like the jailor has been nerfed a bit (no n1 jails, no jailing multiple times in a row, etc.). - The mayor seems unchanged, and is still doctor (or cleric?) proof, but the wording makes it sound like the BG might not be able to defend them. - The monarch is neat, I can see a few ways to use it to your advantage. And it's easy to confirm. - Prosecutor sounds like the deputy, but you put them on trial (so I guess it bypasses defence), and you can only use it once? - Bodyguard seems mostly unchanged. now you can vest twice, wich is cool. - The doctor is now the cleric for some reason? - Crusader is unchanged. - Trapper sounds to be unchanged. - The admirer sounds a bit powerful because if someone refuses, you know they are either a town(power) or an evil role (or just a jerk). Though I guess people can explain not accepting it as them not being weak to dying if the admirer dies. - Amne being town and limited to town is a nerf. its completely unchanged except for that. - Retri not being unique is interesting, though I bet it will be turned back. - Tavern Keeper sounds like a nerfed escort (no role blocking twice in a row?), though I wonder what a hangover does. Dream Weaver sounds interesting, but no idea what insane does. COVEN - Enchanter sounds like a framer+forger. - Illusionist is a disguiser, though if it can only be used on a coven member, I don't understand that Necronomicon part. - Dusa is the same aside from all coven knowing what the role was. - Conjurer seems boring, but I can see how it might be useful. - Jinx is just the ambusher. - Ritualist sounds fun, but it's just that one guesser role that appears in other games (like that one among us mod). - CL is now killing with the old abilities being transferred to the witch? which honestly just sounds like an overall nerf (aside from the empowering self?). - Poisoner is now a one use for kill, but can role block? So consort + 1 use poisoner? - PM is nerfed to have no attack, but now the whole coven knows the reveal, which I guess might be an overall positive. - Voodoo Master is a BMer minus the whisper reading, and also nerfed to not be able to affect players multiple times in a row. (Why is everyone getting the debuff the pirate had in TOS1?) - The wildling sounds like it could be OP, or useless. depends on if it tells you who is visiting or not. NEUTRAL - The baker seems to be a variant old plaguebearer (no spreading, and you only need 3 living players). Apparently the three you choose will not immediately die upon flipping to Famine, so I guess that's neat. - Berserker / War sounds to be a jugg. Literally just a renamed jugg it looks like. - PB is unchanged, but Pest lost the rampage. - the soul collector is a bit fast for my liking, winning after only 6 days. (less if it visits people who die), though I guess its nice that players have one last chance to deal with death before they lose. - Doomsayer sounds to be a ritualist, but they have a harder time. guessing 3 times the players, but they win if they guess all three. - Executioner has the jest ability for its targets for some reason? but otherwise seems unchanged. - The jester is unchanged. - The pirate is mostly the same, but dies if it doesn't win before there is only 1 other person left, which honestly is just kinda funny. Though its less funny if you cant pirate people multiple times. - The arsonist looks to also be completely unchanged. - SK looks mostly the same, but with a scary rampage after it kills two people in a row. - Shroud is cool, basically turns anyone it visits into a killing role. - And finally, the werewolf is unchanged. overall an interesting set of roles, but probably could use some adjustments and clarifications.
Admirer seems to be a double-edged sword. Yes, it allows both you and a Townie to be confirmed, but that also means that a Ritualist or Doomsayer are now able to guarantee your death. Doomsayer in particular gets way stronger when that happens, since they only need to know 1 other role to get their bomb.
It seems like Admirer can make another player win with you, much like how WW lover can win together with town if they had a town lover. Tavern Keeper is just weakened Escort - hangover is just "cannot target them next day" i think. From what I get, Dreamweaver's Insanity means target can no longer choose who they target at night (it's random instead), and they also randomly vote during the day. Sounds OP to be honest. Illusionist's Necro action is just basic attack, which they can choose to do instead of their normal action. Medusa is no longer vet, it's now janitor. Necro medusa is nerfed (only basic attack) Conjurer is "nuke the player during the day". Basically Coven Deputy. Ritualist is a VFR counter. CL is Mafioso. Necro CL is Godfather who can trade defense for powerful attack and RB immunity. Wildling seems annoying AF. Baker/Famine needs to ensure it taps non-confirmed players to ensure they don't get instantly voted up. Berserker/War is just Jugg, except Invincible on last level. Pest is nerfed. Soulkeeper/Death seems like a bomb of a role. NEs now leave the game upon victory. No more "I Win, Now I'm Gonna Make Town Suffer More". Doomsayer is a huge VFR counter, Exe is a bit more flexible, Jester is SUS, and Pirate is... buffed? Can no longer be stopped by TPs.
some additional notes: - veteran and werewolf are also not unique, that's totally not gonna be chaotic at all - insanity mechanic was explained in the video (and in the comment above me), votes and ability targets will be random - potion master seems buffed overall, the potions no longer have a 3 day cooldown (previously you needed the necronomicon to remove it) or a 3 use limit for each potion, so now you can just go crazy with heals and reveals while coven leader does all the killing - executioner got superbuffed, can now choose a target each night (was previously assigned a random target at the start of the game) and must lynch that target the following day. if you failed, you can choose a target again the next night (including the same player), if you succeeded, like you said, you will perform a jester haunt and "leave the town in victory" - "leaving" means you cannot vote on lynches, be targeted at night by other players, or type in the living (?) chat. you are just gone from the game after winning, you can probably still spectate, but you will no longer be counted as a living player. this change, like other changes they made (removing survivors for example) is implemented to prevent kingmaker scenarios
Wait, the Illusionist protects a coven member from attacks dealt by BG and Trapper? Will their attack still go through then? That's OP as a support... except not really since it wouldn't do anything most of the time. Edit: Had to sleep to remember that this role basically screws any investigative roles since the illusionist can just stick to the dedicated coven killing member of the team to shield them from suspicion forever. Pretty strong given how impotent the TI roles are now.
Mmmm it mainly after the backlash against the coven dlc bmg gave up updating coven and mafia does have teamplay buts it's more you have to use tools you have and work with the team for them to work.
@Ply447 don't forget famine Easily possible with the right set up Basically famine has to pop 2nd or 3rd(easily done by N3/4), war 1st(no passive attack, once turned just stay home) and pest 2nd or 3rd(passive attack and makes it harder for famine), then death comes in to say hi Would be a cool combo... and they took away pestilence rampage
Let's start with 'Jest Is Best', because now they go after abstains too. Soul Collector sounds terrifying when playing quietly to creep up on everyone. They don't need to visit, they just need to live to at least day six. Famine would be pretty hard to win with, given you leave three people alive and those three people can quickly find and vote you out. If a mayor is one of those three incidental survivors... War sounds awesome on paper and would be a master at attacking at night, but during the day they are quite vulnerable to lynching as a Juggernaut. Dreamweaver sounds like it's made of pure fun. Doomsayers leave automatically upon winning, but like Baker/Famine requires three living targets and for them to not die and for you to know their roles implicitly. Not as easy as it sounds. Executioner with an ability to target people... the chaos waiting to happen. Pirate's now a race against time and will definitely find a nemesis in the Baker role. SK is far more dangerous now. Shroud is very much a role for framing people. Excited to see some great Prosecutor or Deputy plays.
looks good but i am gonna miss the chaos of 2-3 factions + neutrals going at eachother from good old all any, kinda makes it more bland with just 2 factions and neutrals
@@franciscomelon4159 not really since it has been confirmed afaik that only 1 of thsoe can spawn so its gonna be basically just a PB/jugg with 2 other flavors and you cant even have PB and jugg at the same time, all any is gonna be way less chaotic and wya more like the standard modes in the ToS 2 which is a shame imo
New invest is honestly what Sherrif should’ve always been, either that or have sherrif not have SO MANY evil roles that show up not sus. That being said, the fact that sherrif still exists in basically the same form (just hopefully with more reliable results it seems as it’s only noted that illusionists and the book mess with their results) is kinda disappointing imo. Spy being deception immune is a neat trade off for removing how hard it could shut down some maf/cov though. I do really like how roles like psychic now actually have a choice to make at night, and how role cards have their counterplay plainly listed, instead of those interactions having to be learned. Also seems like the devs are trying to prevent other ways of “not getting to play the game” what with chain jails and chain role blocks not being allowed anymore. Not really feeling Prosecutor tbh, when Deputy exists and it’s competing for a slot with Jailor and Monarch, a slightly better deputy seems underwhelming. Admirer seems like it could have some really funny late game plays if you wanna betray town and get on evil teams or kingmake an NK Amne being a town role instead of NB is really lame imo. Is ret actually not unique like card says or is your voiceover correct? Dreamweaver is a really nice evolution of poisoner and enchanter is a good combination of both framer/HM and forger. Haven’t gotten through whole video at time of writing but looking at a lot of the coven role changes it looks like mafia is no more and coven has inherited their functionalities EDIT: went and watched rest of video. Famine seems kinda awful, like, worse than PB. Gets transformation like 1 day faster than PB usually does, but then has to survive an endgame voting situation for multiple days in a row. Jugg being converted to War seems really nice though, makes a full power Jugg feel as strong as it should be. Death is so much better in comparison. Not sure I really agree with the mid-game win NEs just auto removing themselves from the game, especially since besides Jester, they could theoretically just keep doing their thing anyways if they’re not outed, though I do appreciate that the game mercy kills you if it’s impossible to win as pirate/baker.
I think deputy should be the one reworked since Prosecutor came first in traitors of Salem and was a staple in that game. Did I interpret admirer wrong? Because if lovers work like regular tos and don't override roles- and you are still revealed to the town, then evils will not want to accept your proposal. That's what I got from the video, but this along with other comments all have different interpretations and seem to add different mechanics... so I'm not even sure how specifically the role works. How I feel about the role depends on what the dynamic of the role actually is. Also is it just me or the ability to kill in the day (conjurer) and night (coven leader) seem like it could be really powerful? If conjurer has a limit then it would be somewhat balanced but as it seems there is a lot of pressure to lynch as town accurate and fast- which is hard when there seem to be a lot of roles prohibiting disclosing roles.
@@codebreaker1o119 yeah i suppose so, kinda weird how they're still called "neutral" instead of something like "unaligned" but it does make sense that if NBs have to go then NEs can't be free agents either
@@UncreativePF conjuror only has one use as i recall, though yeah with how many non CK roles can kill, coven can potentially have an extremely stacked team in terms of kill pressure. Also as i understand it, Admirer is *meant* to be a way for townies to confirm themselves at the risk of outing themselves and being love bound to someone. What im saying is that if you're in an endgame situation with some confirmed evils and yourself and town will definitely lose, it seems you can potentially jump ship and win with your lover's evil team with the vote they've now gained
I feel like some of the town roles got indirectly nerfed. Invest sounds like a bad sheriff now, mayor can't really be protected anymore, jailor nerfs feel like a bit too far, mostly not being able to jail the same person twice. It feels like in an ALL ANY game mode town will lose nearly 100% of the time. Though some town buffs like Admirer sounds like an amazing role for confirming good players. Amnesiac got worse by a lot, only can become town now. Retri not being unique seems bad, 2 retris allows them to fuck each other over.
Hot take, amnesiac is gonna be a hell of a lot better, cuz a vig won’t just shoot them to confirm themselves, and now amne won’t just be a survivor that goes with the majority
@@franciscomelon4159 Except now your a role that can't do anything until you autoconfirm yourself when you remember, which means you die before you can do anything with the new role. And you can only be town now, so no reason to be a silent amne anymore which means an entire playstyle died alongside any nuance to the role. Its a braindead role now.
Admirer sounds more like a double-edged sword, possibly to the point of being bad. Ritualist and Doomsayer exist now, and the moment anyone gets confirmed a possible Ritualist or Doomsayer can kill them for free. Ritualist and Doomsayer existing at all will make life really difficult for Town, I think. Since Townies don't know who's Town they rely heavily on the ability to confirm roles, which is heavily discouraged when there are roles that can bypass TP's.
I agree with the fact how they had removed the "kingmakers" by removing Survivor, Mafia or Vamps and making roles like Exe or Pirate leave once they win the game but on the other hand I'll miss the chaos that the multiple factions allowed. Some new roles and reworks I like but with some others I hope they bring back the old ones: Coroner: I really like this role, it could easily be in the original ToS Investigator: No clue why did they decide to make Investigator a weaker Sheriff now, I hope he doesn't stay like this Seer: Seems weak until there's someone in the game who's "ultra confirmed", easy to mess up and get incorrect results, also borderline useless N1 Sheriff: They insist on keeping the binary investigator in the game and make the real investigator weaker... Spy: So, they remove the one thing spy was good at, determining who Coven and Mafia visits but they keep the weaker Lookout ability, from which most info is redundant and on top of that buff Lookout to not be limited to 3 people and not actually visit the target at night which protects him from Rampages... Deputy and Prosecutor: What's the point of having two distinct roles that can kill during the day? One with a gun the other with lynching? Unless there are some limits to how often they can use their abilities or I'm just understanding it wrong. Trickster: So they replace the Transporter with his true purpose of murdering innocent townies by using them as meatshields, nice Jailor: A bit conflicted about the Jailor nerf, not being able to jail twice in a row is a massive blow to how you play Jailor or how you vote, when there's no coven kills and if you want to reveal yourself as Jailor it basically forces you to vote a person you jailed but didn't execute, no more "just jail them again". Losing the ability to jail after killing townies is good though, should've been there a long time ago, both punishes jailor for a bad decisions and stops stupid jailors from making more mistakes. Mayor: Can be healed by a -Doctor- Cleric now but no longer protected by a Trapper, a neat trade off I guess, trap on mayor is generally more problematic than a doctor on mayor would be Monarch: I assume you can only knight a single player at a time, although a thought of having a Monarch give out Knight titles like candy every night and then getting lynched by a majority evil town all of which are his knights at the end of the game is very funny to me. Bodyguard: a good buff to BG imo Admirer: Does the Admirer having a lover works like in the Lovers Game Mode? Because if true he's absolutely awful. Tying yourself to another person who would most likely be another townie and confirming both of you for a low low price of a double kill the following night seems bad. If all it does is reveal both of your roles then it's ok I guess. Amnesiac: Oh yeah thanks for making a role that wasn't even that good to begin with even worse in a situation where town is being curb stomped. It's like the pre-rework Retri where all he did was wait until someone important dies so they can revive them the next night, most of the time when it didn't matter (or the target immediately left lol) or the town had already lost. If they want to remove Kingmakers from the game this badly just remove Amnesiac altogether or give him something to do before he chooses another role. -Escort- -Town- -Drunk- Tavern Keeper: I don't know how to feel about the nerf to roleblocking in general. It wasn't really fun if you were on the receiving end of being roleblocked every single night (extremely fun for the Escort though, blocking a confirmed evil) but at the same time it forces the player to actually be smart about who and when they roleblock people. Dreamweaver: How does the "random vote" actually work, does the dream weaver have a button to force a player to vote for someone or do they vote the same person Dreamweaver does? -Forger- Enchanter: I don't know how to feel about including mafia roles in the Coven. The thing was that Coven and Mafia had two different playstyles. In mafia no matter how many players you had 4 or 2 you actually had to coordinate what you're doing. With Coven? 4 players may as well be GG unless you fuck up badly. Coven members can basically do their own thing almost every night. A merged Coven and Mafia seem more of a "buffed Mafia" than "nerfed Coven". Getting 4 worse Coven roles now means you need to play like the old Mafia. But 4 good roles means you can still destroy the town with relative ease. There will be a very high variation on your performance given what roles you have. -Disguiser- Illusionist: they actually are keeping the disguiser in the game at least it gives a protection against bodyguards and traps so it's not completely useless. Conjuror: I only hope this has like 1 time limit, otherwise it seems insanely broken. Jinx: Ambusher Ritualist: I don't know how to feel about this guy, he seems insanely powerful if you're a good player (same with their neutral counterpart the Doomsayer). I don't know how the ritual is supposed to look is it a choice of 1 in 3 or is it all the possible roles in the game? Anyway it is still insanely powerful, a mayor killer, a "confirmed veteran" killer and so on. Coven Leader: I think that the Godfather killed the old Coven Leader and is now wearing his skin but he got older thus he's weaker than the original. Anyway, not much of a Coven Leader but it's an ok nerf to the Godfather. Poisoner: A good combination with a consort, kind of weird that Poisoner wasn't designed like this from the beginning. Voodoo Master: They nerf the only good thing about the Blackmailer and leave him with his now half-useless ability. Wilding: I really don't get the point why this is a Coven role? Like why do you need to know this info? You don't even know who is visiting who just who was visited. It's half-useless info and especially more useless since town usually wants to tell publicly about their night activities to confirm themselves. This being an actual town role might be more useful since they can "confirm" that townies are telling the truth. 4 horsemen: Baker and Soul Collector I like but the other two? Berserker is just Jugg but renamed and you have friends now so it's no longer a technically weaker Werewolf. PB though... they take the objectively weakest role in the game and they make it weaker... I think they're just making a joke role for now and are going to rework them later. Doomsayer: I had spoken about him before, but I'm going to say it again. If it's a "choice of x" ability then it's super easy if it's any role in the game then I guess it's the ultimate test of ToS knowledge. Serial Killer: Blue Vigi getting a buff? In my Town of Salem? the Christmas must be early. How does the "cautious" is supposed to work? Does it mean you don't kill Escort and just get RBed normally? Shroud: Does his basic attack also count as astral? It might be very strong if it does. I know that all of it is subject to change, but it's just some of my thoughts about it.
Naw mayors basically die unless BG protects. SK cautious works the same I assume. For most Prosecutor vs deputy is for lynching vs shooting. Lynch Neutral apoc shoot coven basically. be careful to not lynch jest or exe targets. Lynching is above unstoppable vs powerful.
Cautious for SK means you don’t kill the role blocker but still kill your original target. Also the ritualist and doomsayer have to select from all the possible roles in the game. And im pretty sure shroud’s attack is astral since they only visit the target they will shroud.
Some notes as I think out loud to myself while watching the video: 1. Trickster sounds pretty interesting. Sounds like a counter to the bait meta. I wonder if they can choose where the attacker is redirected to or if it's random. Could be fun in a endgame scenario if you redirect an attacker on their own teammate. 2. Did they remove the inability to whisper a revealed mayor? There goes the easy vamps check if they did. I think it would be cool if the vote gets reverted to 1 if mayor is converted to reward players who are paying attention. (After video: actually, I guess there is no vamps? So I guess that mechanic isn't even relevant anymore, at least not for that somewhat cheesy purpose.) 3. Can a monarch knight a revealed mayor to give them 4 votes? If an unrevealed mayor is knighted, does their vote go from 2 to 3 or 4? 4. Dreamweaver sounds interesting, though maybe a little OP if insanity perma-RBs day roles like jailor and mayor. Though, there also appears to be more day roles now, so maybe they need to have a counter and this is it. 5. I like the changes to CL. A little less OP than holding a killing role from another faction hostage and the choice between empowering offense or defense sounds interesting. 6. Ah, witch is a separate role now with the same old ability. Still like the new CL. 7. Not sure how I feel about changes to poisoner. I feel like if they wanted to give coven a roleblocker they should've made a new role or at least bump the poison to 2 or 3 uses (maybe if you have book?). Maybe make the RB and poison an either/or choice similar to the new CL. Though, as it is, you could potentially poison someone one night then RB the cleric the next night to ensure your poison target dies and push the cleric the following day as "fake" so maybe it's fine. 8. Are the apocalypse roles on a team together or is it every horseperson for themselves? I assume they're all solo, but what happens if more than one are in the same game and they transform at the same time? Which invincible hell horse wins? I think it would be cool if they win together if transformed, but an untransformed version loses. So, hypothetically War and Famine transform and both win, but the PB who's still missing a few plague victims loses with the rest of the mortals. 9. So exe chooses (and presumably can change) their target each night? Sounds like a good fix to the failstate of being locked to a hard confirmed player. Also makes it easier to fake claim an investigative role since you don't have a set target and can push someone new each day (if your target doesn't die the night you choose them). Also like the built in jester haunt as a reward for wining since if you can change targets now the previous role switch is no longer needed. I wonder if it would be worthwhile for tavern or poisoner to RB an exe to prevent them from changing targets since even a known exe could still win if they switch to a confirmed evil (or confirmed town in evil maj) who's likely to get lynched soon. 10. There's a few roles that say they walk away in victory. Do they instantly leave if they win or am I reading too much into flavor text and they stay for the remainder of the game (like it currently works). 11. Shroud sounds interesting, but probably harder to frame a TI as NK than I'm thinking. 12. I like some of the name changes. Especially escort and consort. Those two always seemed a bit needlessly risque and out of place, IMO. Now their RBing roles remain, but with more thematically appropriate names. Same with cleric. I didn't have a problem with doc like I did the other two, but cleric feels better thematically. I tried to wishlist on Steam, but looks like it's not there (yet?).
They basically just added mafia to the coven. Enchanter is literally forger and framer combined. Jinx is also just ambusher. They also just made poisoner consort that can kill once. Voodoo master is just bmer that can't read whispers.
jailors piss me off because they're always so braindead, like they say "huuuurr role durr" and I'm like "oh, I'm trapper, who are you so i can trap u n3?" And they're like "..." Also the time a trapper exed me for fake claiming jailor as doc chaining with crus, which ruined the game and led to his death
@@thepotatotaxi2430 Trapper is a common evil claim, and so is Vigilante. Most evils claim either role because they don't require a N1 will, so they're common panic claims when you don't have a solid alibi for N1. No anonymous Jailor will give out their identity to an unconfirmed TP because they could've revealed themselves to Mafia/Coven/NK and would be killed the next night. And it doesn't matter if the person who claimed TP/TK gets lynched since the town just lost a valuable asset, and evils have most likely won overall with the death of the Jailor. Anonymity for Jailor is becoming more common as it allows Jailor to survive longer without reliance on the notoriously unreliable TPs. Also, don't fake claim Jailor if you don't anticipate getting exed by the real Jailor.
Something I liked about coven all any, was the 3-way faction war feel, I wonder if the horsemen team will manage to carry over the torch to keep that feel in the game.
The fact that NEs leave on victory and Survivor isn't in the game is quite big. Now it's just town vs not town, so keeping your townies alive is that much more important.
Voodoo master should along the lines of you visit, collect someone’s doll and silence them. However, if you salience them again, you don’t have to visit as you already have their doll.
Yeah, they repurposed some of the mafia abilities into the coven roles. It's a shame having to see the BMer, the hypnotist, the consiglieri and the forger abilities gone though.
@@anzyroadside2374 Only the Blackmailer's whisper ability and the Hypnotist are gone. Forger is I believe the Enchanter, Consigliere is just the Potion Master, and Blackmailer's Blackmail ability is the Voodoo Master. To be honest, the Hypnotist was a garbage role that only served to fake claim town roles. I'm more bummed out about the new Investigator. It's just another Sheriff now.
Damn the ritualist looks cool.. huge risk for high chance reward. necro ability is kind of dull, though, just ignores their whole deal and attack... i'd want to pull of a sweet multi kill to also apply basic attacks to town visitors to the target or something
Wait, so is this a rework to the first game or are they gonna be seperate? I kinda hope it's a rework so that I won't have to feel as bad about abandoning the first game. I like the artstyle of the original better too.
Its better if its seperate anyways, the 2 games are different enough thats its likely people will be in both, so if youre feeling classic just hop onto 1, then hop back onto 2 if you want to play it.
This is realy cool, they removed mafia yes but the coven become so much more diverse, now all coven roles will have the ability to kill with the necronomicum, that is a big change and is something that was realy needed in the game, how many roles for mafia and coven that realy suck, you cant do much with that role, more about mafia, but since some mafia roles are now coven still apllies. The horseman look realy cool too, with something from the old game but with a nice twist to it. The evil ones are nice too, with some new ones.
the fix to poisoner is INSANELY CLEVER, giving the coven an escort type role as poisoner of all things is ingeneous!, how ever with the new coven roles all just dealing a basic attack on visit is a bit lazy imo, i know they all need a way to kill but some could have been more creative
BG, Retri and Jester are not unique my bad :S
Disclaimer: Everything in the video is subject to change from the time of publishing
In voice you stated that Retributionist IS unique, but the info card says NOT unique. I assume the role is still unique, but could you verify that?
How to play
Where do i play the game
I think its cool that they made Juggernaut into War :)
@@Poeeffr the early acces isnt out, yet
Doomsayer:
> Enters Town
> Randomly guesses 3 people’s jobs
> Kills them all somehow
> Refuses to elaborate
> Leaves
Me hearing how many old roles are no longer unique is wild. Like imagine a 4 werewolf game. This is going to be utter chaos.
a slaughter house it will be
What's weird to me is the fact that executioner and jester seem to be unique, based on the rolecard
Well Werewolf was one of the original forms of the "find the traitor" game. Mafia was the initial form when it was first done in Russia while Werewolf was the imported version.
@@geoman265. you were in the play test you should know they aren't :/
@@sanstheazmo I have not seen executioner or jester once, except in videos. Frankly, I haven't actually played much at all, and a good portion of those were in 4 horseman
NOOOO the blackmailer’s whisper seeing ability is gone! It will be missed…
Sobbing
Don't worry. They decided that coven needed next level of hell with the Wildling. At the end of night you just get spewed crap ton of info if I understand it correctly at night lol.
I won't get to see ppl having e-sex in whispers anymore 😭
@@1a2d09 I’m sure it’ll just be like spy
Atleast we cant suffer the pain of people e-dating in whispers
Trully sad that maf is gone, its so fun three teams clashing each other (maf, town,coven)
Yea dude
Agreed, some of these changes seem sad, changing stuff we love
Watch BMG release a "Mafia returns" DLC in a few years
its to prevent kingmaker scenarios. and is why survivor didnt return
at lot of mafia's roles were incorporated into the coven though. it's for the better, 15 player lobbies just can't support 3 clashing factions in a balanced way
The amount of new content in this actually makes the game so much more complex, like basically anything could be wrong, if a sheriff finds you sus it might have been wrong and if they find you in no then it might be wrong too. This seems extremely chaotic and I'm all for it
And that’s not even including roles like Deputy, which can kill DURING THE DAY. Lmao this is gonna get wild
@@brianfrommars In the roblox parody of TOS, theres a role like Deputy that kills during the day. It goes completely horrible, I'm excited for this in the real game
@@msepiphqny bro is this just bloxston mystery
@@bloxer9563 Probably, Bloxton is the only mafia styled game on Roblox I can think of besides Flicker which hasn’t had a role update in years.
@@bloxer9563 bloxston mystery is heavily influenced by this game so yeah, tho theres no looking and acting inside the house during night. you just see the town square the whole time
The fact that neutral evil rolls "walk away from the town" after reaching their goal seems honestly good since they no longer have any reason to play other than messing with one side.
Though it's weird that lore wise they interact with the dead since they leave the town and wasn't killed/on the gallows
I liked stucking around and fucking with everyone else
Yeah, literally had that happen the other day. Neutral evils walking away seems like a pro.
@@unknowed5048
They do? That is weird lmao, interacting with the dead… but it would be boring otherwise. I thought maybe they’d stay alive (as in no dead chat) but just can’t vote or be targeted for any abilities. Just cause it would be boring if they couldn’t talk. Maybe color the text or label NE so you know who not to listen to.
But, I get that it would be odd to keep them in living chat, so fair enough.
Edit: added “(as in no dead chat)” as they aren’t _technically_ dead
@@unknowed5048
personal headcannon: The neutral evils become mediums after winning because they feel as though they accomplished everything in life and wanna learn about the afterlife.
The change of Jailor losing the ability to execute vs the ability JAIL is... it makes mistakes (or griefing) FAR more costly.
*Adding more as I watch*
Ritualist == Death Note Cue fight between an Investigator and Ritualist named L and Light.
I also assume that "You walk away from town in victory" means that once exe pirate etc win, they can no longer vote, so can't influence the rest of the game. Might be wrong.
@@jozokrstanovic9040 That means you basically die. You appear only in dead chat, even though you won.
I'm calling it now, the pro jester strat might be to fake claim investigator and then give a ToS 1 investigator will, pretend it's one of your first games and you didn't know it changed.
Or claim Surv and act confused when everyone tells you surv doesn't exist in this game.
Or do this:
"Fake whisper.
Fake whisper.
Another fake whisper.
Another other fake whisper."
Ad nauseam ^
Or doc
for like how long? 3 months?
The best one I thought of is pretending to act like an insane vigilante, telling the town to lynch you or it's gonna make you random shoot. Like how a vigi gets controlled?
@@msepiphqny witch now can spawn with the coven and control people
The new Ritualist/Doomsayer roles appear to be aimed at hard countering the "vote for role" strategy, by introducing an element of risk to claiming your role. Openly claiming your role could now open yourself up to an attack that the TP can't save you from.
Vfr is lame, good.
VFR will still be the only real way for town to win in very high elo ranked games, the game is basically impossible at that level without it.
@@bloxer9563 “Vfr is lame, good.” - skill issue noob
from the games i've seen so far, this basically made most of the Town roles utterly useless, even Mayor, which whole thing was being able to easily confirm...
@@ass-master-deluxe vfr isnt skill
I already know the apocalypse roles are going to make this game so much more intense. This is going to be so much fun to play
I am also curious as if the Neutral apocalypse roles can all win together
@@lukejones783 I assume they're for the special "4 horseman of the apocalypse" mode so I'd guess they can.
The death seems the weakest the baker seems ok and the pest is mid and the war sounds broken
@@juggernut2795 war is basically juggernaut but better
War and Death is a Dangerious Pair, Wining the Game in 4 Days and 3 Nights if not Detected(war's Mortal form Kills and Deaths mortal form gets the Soul and the nightly Passive soul, 3 nights and They Enter their Horseman forms)
God the deputy sounds hilarious
Imagine you're just having a conversation, arguing with someone and someone else just immediately falls over dead.
"Seven is arso."
"Bullshit, you're lying!"
*whips out a revolver, shoots seven, hits bullet proof arsonist vest*
"I TOLD YOU HE WAS EVIL!"
*gets lynched, was executioner*
"My work here is done."
*rides off into sunset, gets eaten by werewolf*
@@ayanithtalreign Deputy has a Powerful Attack so shooting Arsonists in the day is going to leave a dead body.
"Nice argument however I'm deputy"
*proceed to shoot the person accusing him*
Not many people noticing the equally hilarious scenario where an extremely confident deputy just randomly shoots someone they're certain is evil only to fall over dead after being wrong.
@@Nekrotix12 It's also funny that they don't die the next night, they die IMMEDIATELY
I like how to the timestamp for retributionist is called necromancer cause that's what they always get accused of being lol
is it just me or do a lot of these new roles seem insanely powerful? especially with the coven having a lot of killing roles on top of all the other abilities
Kinda of a weird choice to remove the other teams like Mafia and Vamps. All any games are usually best when there are several evil factions not just one.
True bro , it's always fun seeing the coven and mafia fighting each other while the town is dealing with the vamps and nk slowly but surely sneak his way through
I wouldn’t be surprised if Vamps made a comeback later in the form of DLC.
no vampires is a plus honestly
They don't want kingmaker scenarios, which is stupid. Also why they cut Surv.
No surv means not playing this soo
@@iamspotpanda kingmaker scenarios is literally town of salem
Gonna miss some of the old roles and playstyles, hope they can bring it back in some Remniscience game mode or something
I wouldn't be surprised if one day we get a "Return of Mafia" expansion or something. At least I really hope we get one. All Any just won't be as chaotic and exciting without the potential for two rival evil factions.
@@erikm8373 or even better, a new faction is added that has some old roles involved, like some kind of medium that can read whispers
cant you just play the first game for that? unless this gets too popular and no one plays the other one anymore
@@flat0124 honestly, they should just pull an Overwatch and delete ToS when ToS 2 gains popularity
@@flat0124 so the playerbase doesn’t get split
You see everyone around you in the town dropping like flies and then you propose
If you do propose then you and your lover should have defence and anyone who attacks your lover (as the admirer) will be revealed to you
That sounds balanced
@blubba843 does a person lose their original role when they accept a proposal, or is like regular lovers from tos. If they keep their original roles then that makes for some interesting scenarios where evils cannot accept under any circumstances- which could be good for information gathering.
@@UncreativePF Regular lovers, minus the fact that you cannot win with the other person or their team. RIP
@@forgottenetremembered wait so you are saying that an admirer cannot win with a coven or neutral?
@@Intronometro Correct. And the same goes for the other lover, unless the other lover is town.
Feign is another deception game with an ‘Insane’ role in which the person believes that they are a certain role and at night they get random results. For example, if I’m insane then on my side it tells me I’m a tracker and if I track someone at night I can see them visit someone even if they didn’t. For other people, I just stayed home. I’m basically just feeding false information to everyone and believing it to be real. It’s such a cool concept that I wish more games did
That’s cool!! I’m gonna check out that game out of curiosity
Now that I watched everything, holy crap that's insane. Also since pirate isn't unique, what happens when two pirates attack each other?
Holy mackerel, I hope that isn’t patched and is possible xd
Probably an achievement and an epic duel.
Pipe just clarified that that was a mistake, pirate is actually unique.
@@brianfrommars rip the greatest interaction will not happen
New Psychic is actually the Monty Hall Problem and I absolutely love that.
Always switch!
Not quite, its just guaranteed that the player you pick is in the vision. Doesn't change anything else so doesn't create a Monty Hall problem since we aren't guaranteed that the player we picked is good or evil.
@@invurret9533 Well the strategy is to choose someone who is confirmed on evil nights and then it becomes a Monty Hall problem.
Hoping for a comparison video of roles from ToS1 to ToS2. I get that some of them are obvious, like Doctor and Escort got renamed, Juggernaut became a horseman, and Coven absorbed the Mafia, but having them all cleanly shown off in a video would be cool.
Or gameplay, that'd work.
Actually Cleric resembles a fusion of Doc and GA
This looks so cool!!!! The only thing that would concern me is just how getting the insane status would probably just cause people to rage-quit, as it doesn’t look like they can do anything else.
Is a person notified when targeted by a Dreamweaver? That would allow some sort of counterplay potential, while still possibly used for bait.
I like that winning pirate/exe leave the town, seems like a decent idea
Not sure about how there are roles who can kill you if they know what you are, as I feel people won't be claiming and it will be a mess/random lynching
That also means that nobody can claim exe that has won anymore
That alongside the ability to kill in the day via conjurer, coven has A LOT of killing potential it seems. I wonder how players are supposed to information gather with such a strict time limit and inhibition. If the conjurer has a limit then that would be balanced.
@@UncreativePF yeah im p sure conjuror gets one meteor and that's it
i had so much fun playing this during the testing phase!!
Can you give us a lil snippet of how it went? Was it balanced?
If your willing to answer, how balanced is the coven in this. My first impression from seeing conjurer + coven Leader is that coven can kill every phase. That seems to make lynching VERY costly if chosen wrong no?
@@msepiphqny I was part of the third wave and I played some different modes (town traitor, all any, some set role lists). I will say Coven tends to win all any most of the time when they have a full team, which is 5 now. All the other modes I played felt balanced, the day time killing roles are really fun, it makes the day so chaotic. The devs have been updating it regularly and listening to all of our feedback, so I’m excited for everyone else to be able to enjoy it :)
@@UncreativePF Coven in all any can be a bit OP, they can have up to 5 members now. Conjurer can only kill once when the don’t have the book which helps a little, but I definitely noticed more coven wins in all any. The feature that bans roles helps keep things balanced though. The devs are also really listening to our feedback, so there are sure to be plenty of little tweaks after the release :)
@@OrionNix1 woahhh 5. I wasn’t sure they had all any so thank you! We’re very excited
Fun fact for anyone who sees this, both the Town Power role alignment and the Shroud are famous suggestions from the ToS forums. Obviously I don't know BMG's process for adding them but TPow was used for ages as a way to section Jailor and Mayor off from TK/TS slots and the Shroud bears an uncanny resemblance to murat1996's "Shadowalker" role idea from 2015.
So it seems like they merged a lot of the weaker roles into other roles and pretty much merged all the Mafia into Coven. Oh and Benign is just gone.
Honestly Benign being gone was destined, especially considering they decided to remove Mafia.
@@zaero2379 and vamps
Im so Happy surv is gone. No more lame surv day 1 strats
Apparently they specifically designed the game to remove "kingmaker" situations. Now you win and lose on your own terms instead of a surv that you pissed off three turns ago siding with arsonist.
@@isaacbruner65 Makes sense.
I have one thing to say. Death sounds metal as hell, a literal living timebomb you need to defuse in one day, or lose the game. These are gonna be great games.
Me to Coven when death has been announced: "Listen... I know we had our differences, but right now a greater threat is on the horizon."
@@UncreativePF It's a one-day truce. *Work with eachother **_or die._*
Tons of this stuff as a huge ranked player of the first Town of Salem looks incredibly good. Tons of metas are forced to be removed/rethought, tons of decision making will be even more incorporated as any wrong moves and you can make yourself looks suspicious even more, and tons of new roles being added so evils can claim more fake roles. Though some things scare me of TOS 2. First off tons of roles have been majorly reworked and in general worse. Mayor is a great example. In TOS 1 once a mayor reveals they will gain 3 votes instead of 1 and can only be saved by BG or jailor. But in TOS 2 Mayor is a huge risk to get as not even BG can save them now and relies on jailor, but if jailor exes someone then mayor is basically a sitting duck. Plus if Mayor reveals then an evil / neutral role can just instantly guess them and kill them, making it even more of a risk. There are tons more changes but don’t wanna put in all in this. 2nd is the removal of Mafia. Mafia was the staple of TOS 1 and completely removing them leaves a huge dissatisfaction of wanting to switch over to the newer game. I think a good thing to add is what TOS 1 had and had a Coven / Mafia button so people can play which ever one they wanted and maybe just reskin all the coven roles with mafia forms so it can feel like you are playing the true OG TOS again. 3rd is the new texture stuff. Looking from TOS 1 game look and the Traitors game look really didn’t want me to switch to traitors. The TOS 1 old feeling with no 3Dness at all is what I truly loved it for. With upgrading the graphics, to me it looks like I am looking at polished rubber. And 4th is the running of the game. Tons of TOS 1 games just felt abandoned and over ran with purposely throwing, spamming, and even cheating without any punishments happening to them. What would be a good system is hire supporter members inside of TOS (made up by people who knows what they are doing Game and work wise) and has the option to go to a site hosted by the creators of TOS and can do a supporter votes to determine if it’s true throwing, spamming or cheating. I feel like all of these changes would make the new game the best as possible, but they are my opinions and other people can vary opposing mine. Feel free to express opinions if any of you agree/disagree and hope the devs see our thoughts
I like the enchanter being a fusion of forger and framer, framer has always been the worst role but im glad to see it's function added to a better role
Yeah enchanter can now mess with pretty much any ti unlike framer who could only trick investigators and sherrifs
I feel like games will go very quickly with these roles. Many roles seem to be able do dish out Powerful attacks and I wonder if there are enough protective roles to counter them
"They will walk away from the Town in victory" so does that mean winning Neutrals simply exit the game? In that case, is negotiating with neutrals to side you just dead? That's a huge nerf to NKs if so imo
Yes
@Tawnyami
I doubt it according to exe, info they grief any person that voted guilty or abstaines dealing unstoppable damage, sounds like they stay with that, it's just victory
Idk. From the way its worded and considering the current game, it seems like a way to tell players that they have secured their win. I don't think they automatically leave the game cuz that'd be kinda weird
You'll exit the game in that it's like you died, not a disconnect. They want to lessen kingmaker shenanigans, it seems, since amne is now town, and surv no longer exists.
@@Alphay01 honesty kinda sucky to get taken out of the game after winning, you should be able to stay alive like old exe
WTF so many roles, this is so hype :o I hope this comes out soon!
Wait, Pipe, you can't just drop "ToS 2" and not explain!
@@doodman6870 does this mean traitors in salem is ded
@@nandanthony It was already :(
@@nandanthony yes, caca
@@nandanthony Traitors in Salem was a _spinoff_ if anything. A mere cash grab.
I Love the fact that this game takes some roles from Traitors in salem and other games as well however some role changes bother me or unnecessary
I hate new Invest, it's trash :c
The way the changed the Juggernaut and made him an even scrarier role than Pestilence, holy shit
Town of Salem 2 rewording all the roleblock effects from sleeping with your target to getting piss-drunk with them is *very funny* to me. It's also probably more tasteful, let's be honest, not that it wasn't a source of crass comedy in its own right, but being a Charismatic Tavern-Keeper who can convince *anyone* to drink themselves into a stupor on a whim is *very funny* to me. I also *love* that the Poisoner is now a roleblocker, I think that's a great rework for the role.
Killing during the day is a very exciting new mechanic. I can already imagine getting into a final 1v1, the other guy says "gg ez win" and you can say "lol nope" and shoot him dead on the spot.
But I do wonder, is a Conjurer vs Deputy 1v1 a tie, or does it become a quickdraw duel for who can hit their day kill button first? That would be fun, but I imagine it's more likely that you select a target during discussion, and there's a day action phase that triggers before voting begins.
It's either a quickdraw duel or a simple "who can use their ability" check
cuz conjurer can only delete *one* person during the day
I don't see many people talking about shroud surprisingly. The idea of being able to make roles like tis and tps kill their targets seems like a really fun concept.
Oh cool they finally added the other 3 horsemen that's nice
Conquest is crying
@@universalperson Conquest already was when they chose Pestilence over them in TOS 1
@@ThatOneAnnoyingPubPlayer yeah, but Pest was by himself, which made sense. Pest was the made up horseman.
@@universalperson The fate was still kinda sealed when they picked Pestilence, since there's pretty much no chance Conquest would get in as long as Pestilence was there.
So much of what you said differs from what is actually written on the cards (im assuming the spoken part was recorded before some updates on the cards?), so that just adds to the confusion and natural questions that arise with some of these roles.
That said...TOS 2 GET HYPE!
Interesting, some of the roles were nerfed, for example the jailor.
Jailor also got unstoppable attacks now
@@kyogrecrown5869 Jailor always had unstoppable attacks, it's just that GA stopped it anyways
Amnesiac got SUCH a huge nerf it makes me sad
@@msepiphqny I SEE
@@msepiphqny Being forced to remember some random town role sucks
Funny thing, the game that made the role 'Seer' iconic was "Ultimate Werewolf". UW's Seer is likely what ToS's Sheriff was based off of, but ToS2's Seer is actually 1-to-1 a different UW's role called the 'Mentalist'.
Veteran Not Unique?? Was that an error? That's Insane! Also, has mafia been completely replaced?
Yes :,)
Maf has been absorbed into the Coven. On the one hand, kinda sad to see the 3-way bickering between Town, Maf and Coven is gone, all trying to pit the other 2 against each other. But at the same time, the NK's and the NA's can still fill that role somewhat
I hated most of the Mafia roles, but damn... I was expecting the whole faction to get reworked, not just morphed into Coven.
I guess it is for balancing? Since Mafia + Coven + Neutral would result in Town losing more often than not. Either way, a sad decision. :'(
Yes, the whole time travel storyline with the witch going forward in time to get the mafia to help her is kind of silly imo.
@@blackmailed1072 That, and the game is literally bamed after the SALEM Witch Trials, so the Mafia being there never made sense from a timeline perspective. Granted certain others that are also still in the game like Spy and Pirate could be similarly condemned, but whatever.
So from what I can tell does that mean mayor can only be protected by BG now, Crus and Trap will still allow mayor to die?
apparently they thought tps on mayor were too strong?
@@beanslinger2 I guess so. He'll be pretty left open tbh
Last day mayor meta?
Yeah but a LO can be on mayor, coroner can autopsy on mayor. Also you must’ve forgotten about the trickster which redirects attacks
@@tac5901 Trickster can only redirect attacks against him though. It can't protect Mayor
TOWN
- The coroner sounds interesting.
- Investigator has been heavily nerfed, now you only know is someone attacked someone?
- LO is a neat change, nerfed quite a bit (no confirming other LOs, and cant see astral things).
- Psychic seems to overall be the same, don't understand why you would put someone in your visions. maybe you put a confirmed evil in the good vision to confirm a good person and a confirmed good person in the evil vision to lower the options? So just a buff I guess. I mean heavily nerfed with the enchanter/illusionist being able to affect it, but in a game without either of those, its an overall buff.
- Seer seems to have the same idea as the Psychic good vision would.
- Sheriff is unchanged.
- Spy is buffed because they can see affects on a player, but otherwise unchanged.
- Tracker is the same (unless the astra visits not being seen is new).
- So the Deputy and Vigi seem to be the same role acting at different times.
- The trickster sounds like a beguiler from the better TOS mod, but only against attacking roles. sounds fairly useful though
- Vet is unchanged.
- Sounds like the jailor has been nerfed a bit (no n1 jails, no jailing multiple times in a row, etc.).
- The mayor seems unchanged, and is still doctor (or cleric?) proof, but the wording makes it sound like the BG might not be able to defend them.
- The monarch is neat, I can see a few ways to use it to your advantage. And it's easy to confirm.
- Prosecutor sounds like the deputy, but you put them on trial (so I guess it bypasses defence), and you can only use it once?
- Bodyguard seems mostly unchanged. now you can vest twice, wich is cool.
- The doctor is now the cleric for some reason?
- Crusader is unchanged.
- Trapper sounds to be unchanged.
- The admirer sounds a bit powerful because if someone refuses, you know they are either a town(power) or an evil role (or just a jerk). Though I guess people can explain not accepting it as them not being weak to dying if the admirer dies.
- Amne being town and limited to town is a nerf. its completely unchanged except for that.
- Retri not being unique is interesting, though I bet it will be turned back.
- Tavern Keeper sounds like a nerfed escort (no role blocking twice in a row?), though I wonder what a hangover does.
Dream Weaver sounds interesting, but no idea what insane does.
COVEN
- Enchanter sounds like a framer+forger.
- Illusionist is a disguiser, though if it can only be used on a coven member, I don't understand that Necronomicon part.
- Dusa is the same aside from all coven knowing what the role was.
- Conjurer seems boring, but I can see how it might be useful.
- Jinx is just the ambusher.
- Ritualist sounds fun, but it's just that one guesser role that appears in other games (like that one among us mod).
- CL is now killing with the old abilities being transferred to the witch? which honestly just sounds like an overall nerf (aside from the empowering self?).
- Poisoner is now a one use for kill, but can role block? So consort + 1 use poisoner?
- PM is nerfed to have no attack, but now the whole coven knows the reveal, which I guess might be an overall positive.
- Voodoo Master is a BMer minus the whisper reading, and also nerfed to not be able to affect players multiple times in a row. (Why is everyone getting the debuff the pirate had in TOS1?)
- The wildling sounds like it could be OP, or useless. depends on if it tells you who is visiting or not.
NEUTRAL
- The baker seems to be a variant old plaguebearer (no spreading, and you only need 3 living players). Apparently the three you choose will not immediately die upon flipping to Famine, so I guess that's neat.
- Berserker / War sounds to be a jugg. Literally just a renamed jugg it looks like.
- PB is unchanged, but Pest lost the rampage.
- the soul collector is a bit fast for my liking, winning after only 6 days. (less if it visits people who die), though I guess its nice that players have one last chance to deal with death before they lose.
- Doomsayer sounds to be a ritualist, but they have a harder time. guessing 3 times the players, but they win if they guess all three.
- Executioner has the jest ability for its targets for some reason? but otherwise seems unchanged.
- The jester is unchanged.
- The pirate is mostly the same, but dies if it doesn't win before there is only 1 other person left, which honestly is just kinda funny. Though its less funny if you cant pirate people multiple times.
- The arsonist looks to also be completely unchanged.
- SK looks mostly the same, but with a scary rampage after it kills two people in a row.
- Shroud is cool, basically turns anyone it visits into a killing role.
- And finally, the werewolf is unchanged.
overall an interesting set of roles, but probably could use some adjustments and clarifications.
Admirer seems to be a double-edged sword. Yes, it allows both you and a Townie to be confirmed, but that also means that a Ritualist or Doomsayer are now able to guarantee your death. Doomsayer in particular gets way stronger when that happens, since they only need to know 1 other role to get their bomb.
It seems like Admirer can make another player win with you, much like how WW lover can win together with town if they had a town lover.
Tavern Keeper is just weakened Escort - hangover is just "cannot target them next day" i think.
From what I get, Dreamweaver's Insanity means target can no longer choose who they target at night (it's random instead), and they also randomly vote during the day. Sounds OP to be honest.
Illusionist's Necro action is just basic attack, which they can choose to do instead of their normal action.
Medusa is no longer vet, it's now janitor. Necro medusa is nerfed (only basic attack)
Conjurer is "nuke the player during the day". Basically Coven Deputy.
Ritualist is a VFR counter.
CL is Mafioso. Necro CL is Godfather who can trade defense for powerful attack and RB immunity.
Wildling seems annoying AF.
Baker/Famine needs to ensure it taps non-confirmed players to ensure they don't get instantly voted up.
Berserker/War is just Jugg, except Invincible on last level.
Pest is nerfed.
Soulkeeper/Death seems like a bomb of a role.
NEs now leave the game upon victory. No more "I Win, Now I'm Gonna Make Town Suffer More".
Doomsayer is a huge VFR counter, Exe is a bit more flexible, Jester is SUS, and Pirate is... buffed? Can no longer be stopped by TPs.
some additional notes:
- veteran and werewolf are also not unique, that's totally not gonna be chaotic at all
- insanity mechanic was explained in the video (and in the comment above me), votes and ability targets will be random
- potion master seems buffed overall, the potions no longer have a 3 day cooldown (previously you needed the necronomicon to remove it) or a 3 use limit for each potion, so now you can just go crazy with heals and reveals while coven leader does all the killing
- executioner got superbuffed, can now choose a target each night (was previously assigned a random target at the start of the game) and must lynch that target the following day. if you failed, you can choose a target again the next night (including the same player), if you succeeded, like you said, you will perform a jester haunt and "leave the town in victory"
- "leaving" means you cannot vote on lynches, be targeted at night by other players, or type in the living (?) chat. you are just gone from the game after winning, you can probably still spectate, but you will no longer be counted as a living player. this change, like other changes they made (removing survivors for example) is implemented to prevent kingmaker scenarios
That jailor nerf though. Losing the ability to JAIL instead of exeing is rough.
I'm so stoked for tos 2! Can't wait to watch your videos on them!
Wait, the Illusionist protects a coven member from attacks dealt by BG and Trapper? Will their attack still go through then? That's OP as a support... except not really since it wouldn't do anything most of the time.
Edit: Had to sleep to remember that this role basically screws any investigative roles since the illusionist can just stick to the dedicated coven killing member of the team to shield them from suspicion forever. Pretty strong given how impotent the TI roles are now.
The Mafia has been absorbed into the Coven, which is something I've always wanted. Coven has too few roles, and Mafia's roles have no synergy.
Mmmm it mainly after the backlash against the coven dlc bmg gave up updating coven and mafia does have teamplay buts it's more you have to use tools you have and work with the team for them to work.
I wonder if you will get an achievement if War attacks a pestilence in the server you were in, would be a pretty cool update ngl.
Im imagining an achivement for war death and pest showing up in the same game... but that would be hard.
@Ply447 don't forget famine
Easily possible with the right set up
Basically famine has to pop 2nd or 3rd(easily done by N3/4), war 1st(no passive attack, once turned just stay home) and pest 2nd or 3rd(passive attack and makes it harder for famine), then death comes in to say hi
Would be a cool combo... and they took away pestilence rampage
@@Ply447 don't forget famine
One apocalypse member per game but there is a game mode with all of them
@@sanstheazmo would they force a faction or would they be against each other
You also need to make a video with your thoughts on each role please pipe!
I like the flavor of having the witches be the default opponents. Putting in the other horsemen. and changing escort to be something else
The poisoner also got reworked, merged with the consort (keeping the theme of replacing sex with drinks)
The Role Icons are mesmerisingly beautiful
thank you pipebomb for explaining all the roles from town of salem 2
I like that it's just town and witches, the Mafia was kinda random so this themes better, can't wait to see the roles in action
Watch mafia be re-added via DLC in... a year's time?
Let's start with 'Jest Is Best', because now they go after abstains too.
Soul Collector sounds terrifying when playing quietly to creep up on everyone. They don't need to visit, they just need to live to at least day six.
Famine would be pretty hard to win with, given you leave three people alive and those three people can quickly find and vote you out. If a mayor is one of those three incidental survivors...
War sounds awesome on paper and would be a master at attacking at night, but during the day they are quite vulnerable to lynching as a Juggernaut.
Dreamweaver sounds like it's made of pure fun.
Doomsayers leave automatically upon winning, but like Baker/Famine requires three living targets and for them to not die and for you to know their roles implicitly. Not as easy as it sounds.
Executioner with an ability to target people... the chaos waiting to happen.
Pirate's now a race against time and will definitely find a nemesis in the Baker role.
SK is far more dangerous now.
Shroud is very much a role for framing people.
Excited to see some great Prosecutor or Deputy plays.
Jester already can kill abstainers though...
@@lol0999
Could have sworn they didn't before... ah well.
@@dshadows2966always could, most people don't abstain though. They vote innocent or guilty
@@dylantucker5374 Jester didn't kill abstainers on release. No idea when it was changed though.
Games don't usually last 'till day 6. *You visit or get killed by process of elimination.*
looks good but i am gonna miss the chaos of 2-3 factions + neutrals going at eachother from good old all any, kinda makes it more bland with just 2 factions and neutrals
Neutral Apocalypse gonna make it a lot more intense though
@@franciscomelon4159 not really since it has been confirmed afaik that only 1 of thsoe can spawn so its gonna be basically just a PB/jugg with 2 other flavors and you cant even have PB and jugg at the same time, all any is gonna be way less chaotic and wya more like the standard modes in the ToS 2 which is a shame imo
The first few weeks of this game are going to be CHAOTIC while everyone learns the roles. Can't wait!
Wildling is gonna be insane
New invest is honestly what Sherrif should’ve always been, either that or have sherrif not have SO MANY evil roles that show up not sus. That being said, the fact that sherrif still exists in basically the same form (just hopefully with more reliable results it seems as it’s only noted that illusionists and the book mess with their results) is kinda disappointing imo.
Spy being deception immune is a neat trade off for removing how hard it could shut down some maf/cov though.
I do really like how roles like psychic now actually have a choice to make at night, and how role cards have their counterplay plainly listed, instead of those interactions having to be learned. Also seems like the devs are trying to prevent other ways of “not getting to play the game” what with chain jails and chain role blocks not being allowed anymore.
Not really feeling Prosecutor tbh, when Deputy exists and it’s competing for a slot with Jailor and Monarch, a slightly better deputy seems underwhelming.
Admirer seems like it could have some really funny late game plays if you wanna betray town and get on evil teams or kingmake an NK
Amne being a town role instead of NB is really lame imo.
Is ret actually not unique like card says or is your voiceover correct?
Dreamweaver is a really nice evolution of poisoner and enchanter is a good combination of both framer/HM and forger.
Haven’t gotten through whole video at time of writing but looking at a lot of the coven role changes it looks like mafia is no more and coven has inherited their functionalities
EDIT: went and watched rest of video. Famine seems kinda awful, like, worse than PB. Gets transformation like 1 day faster than PB usually does, but then has to survive an endgame voting situation for multiple days in a row. Jugg being converted to War seems really nice though, makes a full power Jugg feel as strong as it should be. Death is so much better in comparison.
Not sure I really agree with the mid-game win NEs just auto removing themselves from the game, especially since besides Jester, they could theoretically just keep doing their thing anyways if they’re not outed, though I do appreciate that the game mercy kills you if it’s impossible to win as pirate/baker.
They wanted less neutrals siding with others now the game has factions only.
I think deputy should be the one reworked since Prosecutor came first in traitors of Salem and was a staple in that game.
Did I interpret admirer wrong? Because if lovers work like regular tos and don't override roles- and you are still revealed to the town, then evils will not want to accept your proposal. That's what I got from the video, but this along with other comments all have different interpretations and seem to add different mechanics... so I'm not even sure how specifically the role works. How I feel about the role depends on what the dynamic of the role actually is.
Also is it just me or the ability to kill in the day (conjurer) and night (coven leader) seem like it could be really powerful? If conjurer has a limit then it would be somewhat balanced but as it seems there is a lot of pressure to lynch as town accurate and fast- which is hard when there seem to be a lot of roles prohibiting disclosing roles.
@@codebreaker1o119 yeah i suppose so, kinda weird how they're still called "neutral" instead of something like "unaligned" but it does make sense that if NBs have to go then NEs can't be free agents either
@@UncreativePF conjuror only has one use as i recall, though yeah with how many non CK roles can kill, coven can potentially have an extremely stacked team in terms of kill pressure. Also as i understand it, Admirer is *meant* to be a way for townies to confirm themselves at the risk of outing themselves and being love bound to someone. What im saying is that if you're in an endgame situation with some confirmed evils and yourself and town will definitely lose, it seems you can potentially jump ship and win with your lover's evil team with the vote they've now gained
@@UncreativePF there are technical differences to prosecutor and deputy ones hanging and the other is only powerful attack.
I feel like some of the town roles got indirectly nerfed. Invest sounds like a bad sheriff now, mayor can't really be protected anymore, jailor nerfs feel like a bit too far, mostly not being able to jail the same person twice. It feels like in an ALL ANY game mode town will lose nearly 100% of the time. Though some town buffs like Admirer sounds like an amazing role for confirming good players. Amnesiac got worse by a lot, only can become town now. Retri not being unique seems bad, 2 retris allows them to fuck each other over.
There's no indication that the retri uses up the bodies anymore, though.
Hot take, amnesiac is gonna be a hell of a lot better, cuz a vig won’t just shoot them to confirm themselves, and now amne won’t just be a survivor that goes with the majority
@@franciscomelon4159 Except now your a role that can't do anything until you autoconfirm yourself when you remember, which means you die before you can do anything with the new role. And you can only be town now, so no reason to be a silent amne anymore which means an entire playstyle died alongside any nuance to the role. Its a braindead role now.
Admirer sounds more like a double-edged sword, possibly to the point of being bad. Ritualist and Doomsayer exist now, and the moment anyone gets confirmed a possible Ritualist or Doomsayer can kill them for free. Ritualist and Doomsayer existing at all will make life really difficult for Town, I think. Since Townies don't know who's Town they rely heavily on the ability to confirm roles, which is heavily discouraged when there are roles that can bypass TP's.
@@DiviNazuphus alright you win the argument lmao
Pestilence has returned and brought his fellow horsemen along to play.
I agree with the fact how they had removed the "kingmakers" by removing Survivor, Mafia or Vamps and making roles like Exe or Pirate leave once they win the game but on the other hand I'll miss the chaos that the multiple factions allowed.
Some new roles and reworks I like but with some others I hope they bring back the old ones:
Coroner: I really like this role, it could easily be in the original ToS
Investigator: No clue why did they decide to make Investigator a weaker Sheriff now, I hope he doesn't stay like this
Seer: Seems weak until there's someone in the game who's "ultra confirmed", easy to mess up and get incorrect results, also borderline useless N1
Sheriff: They insist on keeping the binary investigator in the game and make the real investigator weaker...
Spy: So, they remove the one thing spy was good at, determining who Coven and Mafia visits but they keep the weaker Lookout ability, from which most info is redundant and on top of that buff Lookout to not be limited to 3 people and not actually visit the target at night which protects him from Rampages...
Deputy and Prosecutor: What's the point of having two distinct roles that can kill during the day? One with a gun the other with lynching? Unless there are some limits to how often they can use their abilities or I'm just understanding it wrong.
Trickster: So they replace the Transporter with his true purpose of murdering innocent townies by using them as meatshields, nice
Jailor: A bit conflicted about the Jailor nerf, not being able to jail twice in a row is a massive blow to how you play Jailor or how you vote, when there's no coven kills and if you want to reveal yourself as Jailor it basically forces you to vote a person you jailed but didn't execute, no more "just jail them again". Losing the ability to jail after killing townies is good though, should've been there a long time ago, both punishes jailor for a bad decisions and stops stupid jailors from making more mistakes.
Mayor: Can be healed by a -Doctor- Cleric now but no longer protected by a Trapper, a neat trade off I guess, trap on mayor is generally more problematic than a doctor on mayor would be
Monarch: I assume you can only knight a single player at a time, although a thought of having a Monarch give out Knight titles like candy every night and then getting lynched by a majority evil town all of which are his knights at the end of the game is very funny to me.
Bodyguard: a good buff to BG imo
Admirer: Does the Admirer having a lover works like in the Lovers Game Mode? Because if true he's absolutely awful. Tying yourself to another person who would most likely be another townie and confirming both of you for a low low price of a double kill the following night seems bad. If all it does is reveal both of your roles then it's ok I guess.
Amnesiac: Oh yeah thanks for making a role that wasn't even that good to begin with even worse in a situation where town is being curb stomped. It's like the pre-rework Retri where all he did was wait until someone important dies so they can revive them the next night, most of the time when it didn't matter (or the target immediately left lol) or the town had already lost. If they want to remove Kingmakers from the game this badly just remove Amnesiac altogether or give him something to do before he chooses another role.
-Escort- -Town- -Drunk- Tavern Keeper: I don't know how to feel about the nerf to roleblocking in general. It wasn't really fun if you were on the receiving end of being roleblocked every single night (extremely fun for the Escort though, blocking a confirmed evil) but at the same time it forces the player to actually be smart about who and when they roleblock people.
Dreamweaver: How does the "random vote" actually work, does the dream weaver have a button to force a player to vote for someone or do they vote the same person Dreamweaver does?
-Forger- Enchanter: I don't know how to feel about including mafia roles in the Coven. The thing was that Coven and Mafia had two different playstyles. In mafia no matter how many players you had 4 or 2 you actually had to coordinate what you're doing. With Coven? 4 players may as well be GG unless you fuck up badly. Coven members can basically do their own thing almost every night. A merged Coven and Mafia seem more of a "buffed Mafia" than "nerfed Coven". Getting 4 worse Coven roles now means you need to play like the old Mafia. But 4 good roles means you can still destroy the town with relative ease. There will be a very high variation on your performance given what roles you have.
-Disguiser- Illusionist: they actually are keeping the disguiser in the game at least it gives a protection against bodyguards and traps so it's not completely useless.
Conjuror: I only hope this has like 1 time limit, otherwise it seems insanely broken.
Jinx: Ambusher
Ritualist: I don't know how to feel about this guy, he seems insanely powerful if you're a good player (same with their neutral counterpart the Doomsayer). I don't know how the ritual is supposed to look is it a choice of 1 in 3 or is it all the possible roles in the game? Anyway it is still insanely powerful, a mayor killer, a "confirmed veteran" killer and so on.
Coven Leader: I think that the Godfather killed the old Coven Leader and is now wearing his skin but he got older thus he's weaker than the original. Anyway, not much of a Coven Leader but it's an ok nerf to the Godfather.
Poisoner: A good combination with a consort, kind of weird that Poisoner wasn't designed like this from the beginning.
Voodoo Master: They nerf the only good thing about the Blackmailer and leave him with his now half-useless ability.
Wilding: I really don't get the point why this is a Coven role? Like why do you need to know this info? You don't even know who is visiting who just who was visited. It's half-useless info and especially more useless since town usually wants to tell publicly about their night activities to confirm themselves. This being an actual town role might be more useful since they can "confirm" that townies are telling the truth.
4 horsemen: Baker and Soul Collector I like but the other two? Berserker is just Jugg but renamed and you have friends now so it's no longer a technically weaker Werewolf. PB though... they take the objectively weakest role in the game and they make it weaker... I think they're just making a joke role for now and are going to rework them later.
Doomsayer: I had spoken about him before, but I'm going to say it again. If it's a "choice of x" ability then it's super easy if it's any role in the game then I guess it's the ultimate test of ToS knowledge.
Serial Killer: Blue Vigi getting a buff? In my Town of Salem? the Christmas must be early. How does the "cautious" is supposed to work? Does it mean you don't kill Escort and just get RBed normally?
Shroud: Does his basic attack also count as astral? It might be very strong if it does.
I know that all of it is subject to change, but it's just some of my thoughts about it.
Naw mayors basically die unless BG protects. SK cautious works the same I assume. For most Prosecutor vs deputy is for lynching vs shooting. Lynch Neutral apoc shoot coven basically. be careful to not lynch jest or exe targets. Lynching is above unstoppable vs powerful.
Cautious for SK means you don’t kill the role blocker but still kill your original target. Also the ritualist and doomsayer have to select from all the possible roles in the game. And im pretty sure shroud’s attack is astral since they only visit the target they will shroud.
oh wow, i didn't expect that at all!
this looks really cool, i hope it can really change the meta and encourage cool plays
I find ideal roles like pirate and exe leaving
There will be less scenarios were to win you depend on a neutral siding you
They fully removed "kingmaker" roles. I miss survivor but it is what it is :(
@@donaldjgumpofficial5754 you...LIKED survivor?
@@donaldjgumpofficial5754the good old days when 10 people used to claim surv d1 and coinflips to determine who your siding with
I can easily see there being a vigi achievement title, "I shot the sheriff," and the achievement description, "But I didn't shoot the deputy."
At Bodyguard 5:05 Bodyguard is NOT UNIQUE.
Hope Veteran is still RB immune...
It is rbd immune
Some notes as I think out loud to myself while watching the video:
1. Trickster sounds pretty interesting. Sounds like a counter to the bait meta. I wonder if they can choose where the attacker is redirected to or if it's random. Could be fun in a endgame scenario if you redirect an attacker on their own teammate.
2. Did they remove the inability to whisper a revealed mayor? There goes the easy vamps check if they did. I think it would be cool if the vote gets reverted to 1 if mayor is converted to reward players who are paying attention. (After video: actually, I guess there is no vamps? So I guess that mechanic isn't even relevant anymore, at least not for that somewhat cheesy purpose.)
3. Can a monarch knight a revealed mayor to give them 4 votes? If an unrevealed mayor is knighted, does their vote go from 2 to 3 or 4?
4. Dreamweaver sounds interesting, though maybe a little OP if insanity perma-RBs day roles like jailor and mayor. Though, there also appears to be more day roles now, so maybe they need to have a counter and this is it.
5. I like the changes to CL. A little less OP than holding a killing role from another faction hostage and the choice between empowering offense or defense sounds interesting.
6. Ah, witch is a separate role now with the same old ability. Still like the new CL.
7. Not sure how I feel about changes to poisoner. I feel like if they wanted to give coven a roleblocker they should've made a new role or at least bump the poison to 2 or 3 uses (maybe if you have book?). Maybe make the RB and poison an either/or choice similar to the new CL. Though, as it is, you could potentially poison someone one night then RB the cleric the next night to ensure your poison target dies and push the cleric the following day as "fake" so maybe it's fine.
8. Are the apocalypse roles on a team together or is it every horseperson for themselves? I assume they're all solo, but what happens if more than one are in the same game and they transform at the same time? Which invincible hell horse wins? I think it would be cool if they win together if transformed, but an untransformed version loses. So, hypothetically War and Famine transform and both win, but the PB who's still missing a few plague victims loses with the rest of the mortals.
9. So exe chooses (and presumably can change) their target each night? Sounds like a good fix to the failstate of being locked to a hard confirmed player. Also makes it easier to fake claim an investigative role since you don't have a set target and can push someone new each day (if your target doesn't die the night you choose them). Also like the built in jester haunt as a reward for wining since if you can change targets now the previous role switch is no longer needed. I wonder if it would be worthwhile for tavern or poisoner to RB an exe to prevent them from changing targets since even a known exe could still win if they switch to a confirmed evil (or confirmed town in evil maj) who's likely to get lynched soon.
10. There's a few roles that say they walk away in victory. Do they instantly leave if they win or am I reading too much into flavor text and they stay for the remainder of the game (like it currently works).
11. Shroud sounds interesting, but probably harder to frame a TI as NK than I'm thinking.
12. I like some of the name changes. Especially escort and consort. Those two always seemed a bit needlessly risque and out of place, IMO. Now their RBing roles remain, but with more thematically appropriate names. Same with cleric. I didn't have a problem with doc like I did the other two, but cleric feels better thematically.
I tried to wishlist on Steam, but looks like it's not there (yet?).
They removed vamps so why would you want easy vamp check?
deputy is actually a concept taken from bloxston mystery's enforcer!
They basically just added mafia to the coven. Enchanter is literally forger and framer combined. Jinx is also just ambusher. They also just made poisoner consort that can kill once. Voodoo master is just bmer that can't read whispers.
Pipe, you made a slight mistake. On Bodyguard you accidentally said that BG is unique, but it's card says not unique, and again on Retributionist.
Same for executioner, executioner is now unique..
Woah, mayor has an incredible nerf. So no TPs will defend against an attack after you reveal. You have to be very careful with when you reveal.
Pipe.. what is this, you can't just drop a video like this out of nowhere
Duuuude the monarch sounds like a really cool role
I really hope they bring Mafia into this though
Lol, Retributionist marked as Necromancer, Town already believes they are conspiring against them
This sound so much fun, also loving the nerfs on the jailor role
jailors piss me off because they're always so braindead, like they say "huuuurr role durr" and I'm like "oh, I'm trapper, who are you so i can trap u n3?" And they're like "..."
Also the time a trapper exed me for fake claiming jailor as doc chaining with crus, which ruined the game and led to his death
@@thepotatotaxi2430 Trapper is a common evil claim, and so is Vigilante. Most evils claim either role because they don't require a N1 will, so they're common panic claims when you don't have a solid alibi for N1. No anonymous Jailor will give out their identity to an unconfirmed TP because they could've revealed themselves to Mafia/Coven/NK and would be killed the next night. And it doesn't matter if the person who claimed TP/TK gets lynched since the town just lost a valuable asset, and evils have most likely won overall with the death of the Jailor. Anonymity for Jailor is becoming more common as it allows Jailor to survive longer without reliance on the notoriously unreliable TPs.
Also, don't fake claim Jailor if you don't anticipate getting exed by the real Jailor.
Something I liked about coven all any, was the 3-way faction war feel, I wonder if the horsemen team will manage to carry over the torch to keep that feel in the game.
A shame they got rid of Vampires. It was one of my favorite Neutral roles.
They will be making a return :)
@@BlankMediaGames holy god. Pls also make ga. İts my fav role
@@Andrew-ch3xjnot currently planned
@@BlankMediaGames Why remove transporter
@@forgottenetremembered transporter way too chaotic
also the _unavoidable_ "(n) is fake trans" could *easily* be taken out of context
The fact that NEs leave on victory and Survivor isn't in the game is quite big. Now it's just town vs not town, so keeping your townies alive is that much more important.
How did you find out about TOS2 when so many of us didn't even know of it?! Thanks for explaining though
It's been hinted at on the ToS subreddit for a while.
There have been multiple waves of playtesters such as my self
And I believe he was a wave 1 member
Voodoo master should along the lines of you visit, collect someone’s doll and silence them. However, if you salience them again, you don’t have to visit as you already have their doll.
*Do not. Buff. The silencer.*
I hope the mafia comes back. I always love seeing those games.
right? i didn't realize maf was my fav faction until now 😭
This sounds crazy. I don't even play the Coven mode right now so I have a lot of learning to do lol
RIP mafia. They will be missed. Mostly the consort.
I’ll miss seeing whispers. They’re sometimes so funny ;-;
@@starlightrai 😅
The poisoner is just the consort now so there's that.
Yeah, they repurposed some of the mafia abilities into the coven roles. It's a shame having to see the BMer, the hypnotist, the consiglieri and the forger abilities gone though.
@@anzyroadside2374 Only the Blackmailer's whisper ability and the Hypnotist are gone. Forger is I believe the Enchanter, Consigliere is just the Potion Master, and Blackmailer's Blackmail ability is the Voodoo Master.
To be honest, the Hypnotist was a garbage role that only served to fake claim town roles. I'm more bummed out about the new Investigator. It's just another Sheriff now.
Damn the ritualist looks cool.. huge risk for high chance reward. necro ability is kind of dull, though, just ignores their whole deal and attack... i'd want to pull of a sweet multi kill to also apply basic attacks to town visitors to the target or something
maybe multi poison visitors with necro so my idea is less op. and more use for poison status
Neutral Benign removed, or just un-changed?
removed
So rip Mafos, Vamps and Transporters.
Wait, so is this a rework to the first game or are they gonna be seperate? I kinda hope it's a rework so that I won't have to feel as bad about abandoning the first game. I like the artstyle of the original better too.
it's a sequel
Its better if its seperate anyways, the 2 games are different enough thats its likely people will be in both, so if youre feeling classic just hop onto 1, then hop back onto 2 if you want to play it.
Pet theory: for everyone but the CL, the "basic attack" is hitting the target upside the head with the book.
This is realy cool, they removed mafia yes but the coven become so much more diverse, now all coven roles will have the ability to kill with the necronomicum, that is a big change and is something that was realy needed in the game, how many roles for mafia and coven that realy suck, you cant do much with that role, more about mafia, but since some mafia roles are now coven still apllies.
The horseman look realy cool too, with something from the old game but with a nice twist to it.
The evil ones are nice too, with some new ones.
The new "When an unstoppable force meets an invincible object" Achievement probably when you meet war as pestilence or vice versa
no mafia in the game?
I noticed that too, it also seems that new coven roles function like old maf roles
i'm noticing that the Berserker is in fact, basically the Juggernaut but cooler
Yep. They made Juggernaut part of the Apocalypse gang. *Hell yeah.*
TOS2?
IKR?!?! (also your first)
the fix to poisoner is INSANELY CLEVER, giving the coven an escort type role as poisoner of all things is ingeneous!, how ever with the new coven roles all just dealing a basic attack on visit is a bit lazy imo, i know they all need a way to kill but some could have been more creative
The wildling (13:11) is gonna get a lot of information, lmao
I cant believe my man Doctor went to Church and became Cleric
Imagine loading up a game and seeing:
"Your role is Baker"
Oh that's nice!
"YOUR GOAL IS TO BECOME FAMINE, HORSEMAN OF THE APOCALYPSE"
Lookout doesn’t visit and therefore won’t die that way anymore? Nice