My transgender sister lost her life recently due to pancreatic cancer. She didn't fully transition until age 60 but her last 5 years have been full of joy and authenticity for her and all of the family, including her wife of 45 years. What a great interview and I thank you for going into considerable depth about this issue. Who are we to decide whom is worthy of God's love?
You seriously said sister. For decades he is a biological male, and all of a sudden you call him a her because he had a psychiatric condition? What is happening to people’s brains.
"Who are we to decide whom is worthy of God's love?" Much judgment on this page. So, just about everyone decides. However, for a *church* that will always and only be the leaders of a church. It is very easy to start your own church in the United States and have it exactly the way you want it.
In the bastion of what is said to embrace God's eternal love, action speak louder than platitudes of "we love you but, your's never really good enough for God, or church unless you ignore your authentic self..." The church doesn't care about the type of harm that it's draconian policies cause. People have such a strong attachment need that they will often ignore their own mental well-being to be loved and belong to a church that continues to harm them--time and again and ironically calls it God's love. That is the travesty.
1. Make a policy in line with popular beliefs of 50 years ago. 2. Double down hard when there’s backlash. 3. Realize that huge damage has been done and tithing revenue is affected 4. God changes his mind (again), and it’s a miracle that proves the church is true.
Except now the Church has so much money I doubt Nelson and Oaks care about losing tithing anymore. Even if every member stopped paying tithing the Church has plenty of money. Nelson and Oaks won’t live long enough to see any financial harm to the Church.
@@hturt4this was my thought. The Widows Mite Report analyzed that the church does not need members or tithing to keep the wealth accumulation going. When you have hundreds of billions of dollars in real estate, the stock market and other forms of for-profit commerce, they do not need the nuisance members and their pittance of alms.
I am PIMO with a calling. I’ve decided I will resign from it tomorrow. This new church policy lacks of love, compassion and understanding. I need to figure out how to fully leave. Thanks MS + Amanda and Shaye!
Nothing to figure out ... Just leave! You won't regret it. I sure didn't!!! Hearing stories like this just confirms it all the more! Wish I didn't wait 10 years while I was in the thick of a faith crisis to leave. Amanda and Shaye are inspirational. Thank you MS for caring and giving people the platform to share.
Quit Mormon .Com Was what I used to leave the church. It was made by a lawyer who was once a member and thought it ridiculous that the church’s process to leave was so awful, long, and invasive. So they made a website to help members leave. It makes it to where all you have to do is fill out a form/answer a few questions, and then have the letter stating you want to leave that they generate for you notarized (the church is the one that requires the notary), send it off and they take care of the rest for you! It’s a free service but they do accept donations to help keep the website running. The only indication you get from the church that your records have been removed is an email saying your email is no longer associated to the Mormon main website (lds. Com/whatever they call it now). The church doesn’t even send you a letter or email or anything saying that your records have been removed, just that. So once you get that email, you’re good!
Out of 10 kids 6 sibs have written a letter (1 paragraph) and had their name & LD$/Auschwitz # removed. All welcomed back with baptism at any time btw- I had mine removed decades ago as my sister was beaten in the 60s for dating a person of color. I have never chose to join again though. mormons are falling fast at not even 200 yrs
Watch the Mormon stories on David archuleta's mom leaving because of how they treated lgbtq plus. It's a beautiful story and she said the same thing. She was sitting there in Sacramento meeting and realized there was no love there.
As an ex member, I'm removing my name from the church's records. I used to not care bc it didn't impact me. But I refuse to have my name associated with any organization that feels comfortable making policies like this.
@@celinepope They will send you a letter . I was so angry I tore it up. I regret that action . I am 66 years old and I remember the bigoted teachings they are trying to hide .
My cousin was born without a perfect XX chromosome & also hormone variances. Over time she was a simple tomboy. As she feels more male and accepts her lot as male LD$ puts her in the same category as the pedophile and porn addict in Utah setting standards for all. YEP, same as my sister who married a black man in the 60s.
Welp, between this and the Church acting like an absolute mafia about temples in small towns, I think it's time to officially resign. Since they don't listen to opposing votes, I guess they'll just have to take my request for records removal.
They will as thousands are leaving for various reasons. LD$ isn't even 200 yrs old! New age politics is not god. Dont let them shame you with meeting locals! After a year or so you can get rebaptized with knowledge!
Yeah Shaye, I totally agree about the background checks!!! If the church is worried about child abuse, then all people working or volunteering with children (bishops, teachers, etc.) need to be background checked annually. I cannot believe this does not happen AND I cannot believe that LdS families just simply trust random un background checked adults being alone with their children. Like John said the child abuse is being perpetrated by believing cis heterosexual men, not trans people.
As a never Mormon I thought this was bizarre. I work as a teacher and I volunteer in seniors centres and my local hospital. Not only do I need a background check, I need to renew every 2 years. I’m happy to do so! Vulnerable folks deserve protection even when it’s mildly inconvenient.
In Davis County UTAH there are dozens of groups for pedophiles, porn addicts, alcoholics, & drug users. But a child born a hermaphrodite (ancient term) shall be chastised, criticized and cast away like garbage? Little LGBT support
My trans sibling has never come anywhere close to being a predator. As far as I can tell, none of my LGBTQ+ family and friends have ever come close to being a predator. You know who did? The two worthy Priesthood leaders who molested me on two different occasions. The Hypocrisy and the pain they're causing makes me nauseous.
@@daffodilfleur not true. The LDS church actually advocates publicly against background checks. They have been required to do it in certain states (eg California , Illinois) and countries (eg England) due to child abuse issues. But even now in Utah and Idaho as well as other states, no background check is required for bishops or volunteers with children.
So glad I left the church 23 years ago and gave myself the freedom to stop judging my family and friends, loving them for WHO they truly are and being their forever friend and life cheerleader. Bless you Amanda and Shaye!
@@charisma-hornum-fries I too want my name taken off their membership roles. However, I don’t know my membership number. As far as I can tell, I may be forced to speak to a local bishop to get this done. I resent being put in a position of coming to them at all.
@@kelleyturner6584 excommunication isnt even a thing any more as thousands are leaving. Write a paragraph to LD$ records, notarize its you, bypass your "meeting with authorities" (embarrass tactic) You are welcome to be baptized again any time :) as I was. I will never forget the shame given to my sister for dating a person of color. This is not gods way, this is all about politics.
My high-school boyfriend was investigating the church and he was in a priesthood meeting. The lesson was about the eternal nature of sex and gender. He was 17 talking to a grown middle aged man. (please excuse the outdated term. This was a long time ago and education was limited. The word was used with pure intentions and no malice.) My boyfriend: "what about hermaphrodites?" [intersex people] My bishop: "do you believe in unicorns?" 🙄
"My boyfriend: "what about hermaphrodites?"" The church offers to check your DNA and help to become one or the other depending on your internal organs and DNA. Or you can stay hermaphrodite. I suspect, but do not know, that certain roles appointed to men might not be available to hermaphrodites that are genetically female. Conversely, being genetically male does not guarantee priesthood office. "please excuse the outdated term" Sure. You will have to ask forgiveness for using ordinary ancient words here. It is unlikely you will confuse anyone; and given the degree of love, tolerance and liberty by this crowd, I can see why you ask forgiveness. You could inadvertently *sin* .
A true testament to how little study and education they do in general. Apparently the Sunday School echo chamber is enough. And they can definitively speak about things they don't know anything about. How comfortable for them.
I am so very sorry about this news. Your child has been learning about themself and accepting themself in a new way, and to have the church not just reject, but to put them in a class with sexual abusers is so very wrong.
I’m a nevermo, but have family/friends in the church and am the parent of a trans son. Didn’t think the ‘church’ could go any lower, but they have. Just vile.
As a parent of a trans kiddo who has had affirming surgery and care, it was clear that once he had his surgery it saved his life. If I hadn’t left the church a year ago due to other things like the church using government in Utah to fight against legalizing marijuana and not caring in other states, the SEC crap and mostly NOT protecting children from abuse through reporting properly, then this exact thing would have pushed me out. I was a faithful member, albeit with doubts, my entire life (40 years) but I will always choose my children over the church; otherwise eternal families don’t really matter, right?!?
"I will always choose my children over the church; otherwise eternal families don’t really matter, right?" It is a bit of a catch-22, but yes. If you leave the church, no eternal family. If they leave the church, no eternal family.
@@thomasmaughan4798 says the Mormon church. More coercive abuse. They come at you with, ‘boy howdy, did you know that with the LDS church you and your family can be together for all eternity’ as if other religions don’t already believe they’ll be with them in the afterlife.
The rates of people being born intersex isn't that rare. There are approx the same number of intersex people as their are natural red heads. Think about how many people you might know of that have natural red hair, for me it's 2 or 3, you probably know the same amount of intersex people, you just don't know it.
Yes! It's even higher than we think because technically intersex is when your chromosomes don't align with typical sex chromosomes. So, with genome testing, we are finding so many more intersex people.
@@celinepopeindeed, before genetics the distinction would never be known in those cases. And before 20th century medical scans etc knowledge of internal variations would not have been clear either.
I have followed Amanda and Shaye for years. They are heros and trailblazers. It’s so hard to believe the many steps back they (LDS organization) has taken with this new ruling. It’s going to be very interesting to see peoples’ reactions.
@99blackbird😊s NO MORE TRUMP NO MORE TRUMP NO MORE TRUMP NO MORE TRUMP NO MORE TRUMP NO MORE TRUMP NO MORE TRUMP NO MORE TRUMP NO MORE TRUMP NO MORE TRUMP NO MORE TRUMP NO MORE TRUMP NO MORE TRUMP NO MORE TRUMP NO MORE TRUMP NO MORE TRUMP NO MORE TRUMP NO MORE TRUMP NO MORE TRUMP NO MORE TRUMP
I truly don’t understand how transgender people would want to stay in the church. The church doesn’t align or seem to want to understand this topic. Sending my love to all.❤️
"I truly don’t understand how transgender people would want to stay in the church." Agreed. It is about *family* which in turn is about human reproduction.
@@thomasmaughan4798 Transgender people can reproduce, have kids, and can have kids in other ways. What about people who were infertile as is, transgender or not? What then Also OP as someone who was trying to make that work for years, it was entirely because of the threat of losing my family. The idea that I wouldn't have any friends or family left after leaving was really hard, but in the end I had to make the choice to leave. The threat of being alone is scary
@@toriray6126 "Transgender people can reproduce, have kids" I'll believe it when I see it (or at least reliable news stories). For now it appears fake vaginas cannot produce and bear babies. "What about people who were infertile" They will not reproduce. For such person to remain in the church will require considerable faith in eventual opportunity because of this intense focus on the family.
@@thomasmaughan4798 You make a marvelous point. "FAMILY", as JESUS MAKES THE POINT, IS NOT ABOUT BUILDING DYNASTY, DYNASTIC WEALTH, heirs and descends to BUY UO ALL THE LAND, essential resources, housing, "SO THAT YOU ALONE MAY DWELL UPON THE Earth"! It is the FAMILY OF CREATION not the creation of a family or of a family "name".
I was shocked by the churches policy about the intersexed!!! Letting the "parent" decide what sex the child is, instead of allowing the child to chose! So many stories of the intersexed being mutilated because a parent made the decision for them. So wrong!
"instead of allowing the child to chose!" A newborn is in no position to choose anything. Parents have many duties with regard to children and children do not get many choices (at law). That's just the way it is. If you are a parent, you can certainly abrogate your duties and big blue cities show plenty of evidence of what happens next.
@@thomasmaughan4798 please look into this topic before acting like this is a parents “duty”. A vast majority of the time the operation is unnecessary (only to make the infants genitals align with our idea of male or female). That is something they can choose when they’re older. Especially since the operation always causes complications when done before puberty. It’s selfish to make that choice for an infant when it’s cosmetic and not life threatening.
@@WaffleSalad A parent's (noun) duty is to parent (verb). Bear and raise children to become adults who in their turn also bear and raise children. It sort of is not your job to interfere in someone else's parenting; nor mine to interfere in yours. HOWEVER, evolution will reveal strategies that turn out to be effective. The medical benefits of circumcision seem indisputable and significant; not that I have any idea WHY a parent chooses this. Jews obviously. It is part of the Abrahamic covenant. "Yes, male circumcision is a common practice in Muslim countries and is strongly encouraged in Islam, though it is not required. It is considered an important ritual that aims to improve cleanliness and is seen as a sign of belonging to the Islamic faith. The practice is also said to have been performed by the prophet Abraham, who Muslims believe circumcised himself at the age of 80." It is unsurprising that the opponents of it tend to be Democrats for whom various things substitute for their former religions. It produces oddities such as forbidding to circumcise BUT okay to cut it completely off.
@@thomasmaughan4798 this convo isn’t about choosing to circumcise your kid. It’s about intersex kids getting their genitals “corrected” to look “right” for their gender. That can wait till they’re 18 and they can decide if they want the surgery or not. *Especially* when nobody is going to be seeing it and it won’t impact the child socially at all. It’s literally just for the parents at that point. It’s wildly irresponsible to have this operation done (for no reason other than conforming to male or female) on your infant with all the known complications associated with the operation
As someone working through some transphobia, it is so good to hear this perspective. I think the word phobia is apt - it is a fear of the unknown. The more we listen to those who are different from us and empathize with their perspective and experience, the better the world is. Thank you John for having a platform for these voices, and thank you Shaye and Amanda for being willing to share your experience.
Phobia is usually abused and misused. Many things I do not fear but also do not embrace. With regard to language, I am pedantic. I learned the meaning of words long ago and I see no reason to change meanings of words every day. How can one communicate? It is impossible. How about reading history? Impossible. Writing a journal for your descendants? They will laugh at your word choices.
@@jackiejormpjomp "I think a lot of people mean trans hate, not trans phobia." For sure. As for me, I neither fear nor hate "trans" and if you are good enough at it, I shouldn't even notice. However, I simply have nothing in common with such persons and they tend to be very demanding with pronouns and so on. I do not specify my pronouns because they are YOUR word choices, not mine! When would you EVER use my pronouns talking to ME? So, yeah, my pronouns are me, myself and I. That is how I refer to myself when I am talking about myself. If I am talking about you, I will choose the words I use. The one man I know that transitioned accepts that I am not going to call him a woman. But he's also no longer a man. So I don't really have a way to say what he is.
Like John said, it's so ironic that this is coming out when RMN is knocking on death's door. Just like the commentary letter wasn't signed. Amanda and Shaye, thank you so much for sharing your story!! You are two beautiful souls!! ❤❤❤
The rule that actually disturbs me most is the one about only being allowed to use a single occupancy toilet and, I quote, "Alternatively, a “trusted person” must be stationed outside the restroom to keep others from entering when a transgender person uses a restroom that aligns with their personal gender identity." - Imagine having to go to the toilet and having the entire restroom blocked off because you're in there. Imagine having a bowel disease and needing a lot of time in there, while you can imagine the line outside and people getting upset at you, and when you come out...the stares. This is entirely inhumane
"Imagine having to go to the toilet and having the entire restroom blocked off because you're in there." Yes. The men's room has one commode and one urinal. Only two men can be in there anyway. "Imagine having a bowel disease and needing a lot of time in there" Yes. Anyone that needs to sit is going to have to wait; the commode is occupied.
As a recent YW President, I would have gladly had a trans woman as one of my counselors. It is awful that the church leadership are treating trans men and women as a danger to kids. And the restrictions to trans kids and youth is going to be so damaging.
@@PlutoFields you sound exactly like an obstinately uninformed, uneducated person who is scared and angry and needs someone else to do the thinking for you. What are you afraid of?
I would like to say that these new exclusionary policies surprise me but tbh it doesn't really. I guess I have been expecting them to go after us with a renewed vigor. I transitioned and left the church in 2015 but as an adult I could do that. My concern now is for the safety of the young people that can't just leave. I think that this will drive them to desperation, which, sadly, is usually s**cide. I know this, I have been there :(
Crazy that they’re doubling down on fascist segregation. I saw jasmine from scriptureplus say it’s lovely as she described all the points of segregation!🤯. I had several members tell me on TikTok that the new policy is loving. I can’t stand the gaslighting! I hope this is a Nov 2015 moment! People should stop acting as if the LDS corporation cares about anyone!
"People should stop acting as if the LDS corporation cares about anyone!" I believe no one has claimed the corporation cares about anyone. In what manner would this "acting" be manifest?
Love it when two of my fave channels collab! Shaye and Amanda: I found you through Five Two Love, and have subbed ever since. I enjoyed your decorating style and loved watching your house transform in to a home (I will never forget those Potteresque floating candles!). Amanda's projects and the renos in the theatre room along with some cool new tech (the lit up thingies on the walls) had me in awe, as we share the same aesthetic, althought not the same budget, lol. So I have been a steady follower...and I just want to say how much I've loved getting to know Shaye over the past while. And I especially LOVE your witty shorts that drive home strong points in the most creative and humorous way! I hope they change some minds along the way.
Also, if someone has legally changed their gender through their government documents (in the U.S.) on their birth certificate, with social security, etc with doctor’s support, then the church is denying a legal document?
I actually wonder how this will comport with laws in Europe. In the UK, organizations are required by law to maintain accurate records. If they refuse to update your information on request, you can potentially take legal action against them under GDPR (though it doesn't typically come to that). I don't know whether churches or other religious institutions have an exemption to that law or not, but it seems like this could get interesting if people really want to push it. It also seems like the whole, "We'll flag you the way we flag child molesters," thing could run afoul of the Equalities Act, but again, they may get a pass because they're ostensibly a religious organization.
50:33 I have to respectfully disagree on this interpretation: the LDS church doesn't seem overly concerned about preventing child abuse; I suspect that the prohibition of letting trans people teach/work with children is to prevent children from meeting trans people and getting to know them as people not unlike themselves. As civil rights for everyone increase, it makes it increasingly difficult to frighten your homogeneous population into the corner you want to keep them in where you can convince them of whatever you want to. Children who grow up around trans people grow into adults who are less likely to fall for trans-panic inspired fear mongering.
Especially when people think it’s a “social contagion”. Can’t have the kids being around trans people because they might turn trans ((sarcasm)) However a lot of people also think trans people are predators so it truly could be either or both
They don’t want trans folk around for (2) reasons; 1) they believe being trans may be contagious; & 2) They equate being trans as a type of sexual deviancy that their flock needs to be protected from. Strange the church doesn’t feel the same need to protect its children & young women from pedophiles & other sexual predators. They don’t even do a simple background check on members “called to” work w/ minors. Hypocrisy much?!🤦🏻♀️
And the 'contagion' aspect, saw this over gay youth leaders, 'they will turn the kids gay'. To which I replied that all the straight leaders couldn't turn the gay youth straight, so...
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints places enormous emphasis on family. Therefore, bishops must be the husband of one wife, says so right in the bible, and presumably anyone teaching children should set an example of an eternal family.
I am a cis gay never-Mormon man raised in evangelical Christianity. I am baffled why this church feels the need to institute and publicize formal exclusionary policies or doctrine. Most churches I know of either have an LGBTQIA affirming policy, or they have no stated policy and varying levels of tolerance or acceptance, but most are not inclusive. Many preach against it based on their interpretation of Bible passages, but without a formal policy or doctrine change.
The whole basis of this church is gender though. Everything is segregated from the age of 12 onwards and gender roles are literally drilled into every aspect of your personality/life plan/ideals. It’s so fucked.
I was Mormon from a devout family, slowly left over 20+ years. I have a trans kid, and LGBTQIA+ nieces and nephews too. They have hit my mama bear fury, and I f#%$* pissed off! I think they are separating out the wheat from the chaff. It is their version of a course correction back to their ultra conservative roots. They are solving a bunch of problems like the “liberal wing” pushing for changes, how can we modify our policies to cover this more complicated gender fluid world, we really don’t want to include any of the LGB…alphabet. So it’s those old geriatric octogenarians, yanking the wheel of the mini van suddenly to the right while opening the doors on the left side hoping all the lefty weirdos they don’t like fall out or jump, but you can bet anybody who they see as undesirable, who is left after that course correction, will get excommunicated, or whatever they call it now 🙄 , if they don’t tow the line. I also agree with John that the timing is definitively political.
"I am baffled why this church feels the need to institute and publicize formal exclusionary policies or doctrine." All churches ought to publish doctrine and policy. Those that do not can barely be called a church. However, most Christian churches lack any sort of authority structure and just sort of stumble along democratically more or less.
They did an in depth video on their Mormon stories a few yrs ago, before Shaye fully transitioned socially. It was excellent & makes you love these 2 more. That’s how I first heard of them, before they had their Insta page. Beautiful kids x 3 as well.
Thank you for being courageous enough to make yourselves vulnerable and talk about your journey. I come from a TBM family and have a trans nephew. As an ex-mo, I am the only one in the family that will acknowledge my nephew. He is braver than I could ever be and I am so proud of him. I am disappointed how this dangerous rhetoric rips apart families and causes them to reject their own.
I'm a non-religious, never mormon, and I wish I knew what I could do to help the very real people who are going to be harmed by this ridiculous policy.
It's always interesting to me when the Proclamation on the Family comes up since it was praying about that document in the Celestial room of the Jordan River Temple that I got clarity that I was transgender. I did exactly what I was told to do, and the idea that gender is eternal was what lead me to come to peace with being trans.
Me too!! At the time, it felt like the Proclamation on the Family was saying that my gender is eternal, and to live in a life and body that was incongruent with that gender would be against God's plan. I fasted and prayed earnestly, over and over again, asking if I should transition. The feeling of peace and acceptance from Heavenly Father, every single time, was and is the clearest revelation I've had my whole life.
When anyone gives a percentage of the population as a justification for irrelevance, I think it's extremely important to humanize that number. 1% of the US population is ~3,314,000 humans. We are talking about humans, people who love, work, care, and live. Each of them, all of them are worthy of acknowledgment. They ARE significant. Ignoring any minority group or need because it's "only" a "small" percentage is a wild approach. I'm so glad that the 1%-2% spoken of here was contextualized as significant because they are.
I am the mother of three (now adult) children assigned male at birth. My oldest came out as trans at age 28 and my other two identify as male but have had relationships with opposite sex and same sex. I grew up in the church but always had questions and doubts and was viewed as a bad Mormon. I haven’t attended church in 27 years. I started listening to Mormon Stories and other xMo channel’s and have learned so much and have been so validated. I have been wanting to officially withdraw my name from the church for over a year now. I even tried using Quit Mormon just last week only to realise I will probably need to talk to the local bishop as I have no idea how to find my membership number. Ughh! Learning about this massive step backwards into such devastating intolerance and hate has made my wish to officially leave the church 1000 times stronger. Looking for the fast track to them no longer being able to count me in their bloated membership numbers.
@@blisteryurt - I’m sorry for your situation, and hope it gets better. My parents aren’t supportive either, I have made my own life and friends about three hours away and have a great life without them. But it’s hard when I see others with lovely family lives. My mothers last phone call to me was a month ago and it was to have a go at me for something I said at Christmas, that was true, but didn’t align with her ideals, so she called me a liar. She is older and has fragile health and I wish we could just say how much we love each other instead of analysing the past, but she won’t or can’t. I can’t imagine what life would be like with grandparents (my parents) who love and support their offspring, they have many and haven’t given a gift to any, or even acknowledged any of them, but boast to others how many they have.
@@blisteryurt I’m so sorry your parents don’t understand how wonderful you are as YOU. I feel lucky to have my kids just as they all are. As long as they are kind, loving people, that’s enough for me. Their strength and courage to live as they are in such a time of LGBTQIA being demonized and politicized makes me so proud of them. You should be proud too.
"children assigned male at birth" How was this assignment made? Flip a coin? But that's so *binary* ! I *observed* the sex of my child; there was no *assignment* .
This doesn't all surprise me. My YSA bishop told me that if I were to transition medically, I would lose my calling as a Sunday school teacher and no longer be able to go to the temple. It broke my heart and now 2-3 yrs ltr they are doubling down on what was in the guidebook to begin with imo.
This transphobia wave is sooo weird. It is such a small percentage of the whole population; but they make it sound like very urgent issue. By the way, I don’t have anything against everyone doing whatever they want with their body or identity. I just think that this had to be put into perspective.
From a female perspective, it is harming women's rights, when men want to compete in female sports, pageants etc. From parent's perspective, this massive trend and trans hipe is harming children in puberty, when they are searching for their identity, not allowing them to fully develop mentally and physically. It is a very harming ideology, the same as mormonism.
@@usagi_tan ‘ideology’? I would maybe educate yourself on human gender identity throughout known human history. It’s been part of the human experience for a long time.
@@usagi_t Have you considered that you might not have all the information about this topic? Just like you're asking others to do, I would encourage you to seek out some unbiased sources about trans people, the spectrum of gender through human history, the current biological and scientific understanding of the subject, and who is profiting from people believing false things about trans people. You're right - we should all continue to question and reevaluate our beliefs, and be willing to change them when we learn new information. Please don't exempt yourself from your own call to be educated on all sides of the subject.
Then you will be separated from God. As he holds judgment. He also laid out clearly what we are to stay away from. We have discernment. Youre basically saying God makes mistakes. And to live in sin. Not good.
@@onlyicedcrybaby7297Your leap from a possible creator to the angry and jealous Abrahamic deity has no credible evidence. How many millions of innocent children were needlessly slaughtered in the global flood? Their position on slavery was also terrible as is the misogyny and now homophobia. Stop using your dogma to attack people different than you.
@@onlyicedcrybaby7297No, that’s not at all what she’s saying. God is one thing, the church run by flawed humans who abuse their authority is entirely another. People leave the abusive church to draw near to God and have peace.
I just hope the closeted trans kids at BYU are ok. I remember when the 2015 policy came out, I had never felt so alone there. This likely has a similar or worse impact on them.
My sister has a grandchild that is transgender man. I love him so much. My sister is still an all in Mormon, it breaks my heart that he isn't getting all the support from the family
I’m going back about 20 years when I was in young men’s. We had a joint activity young mens/young womens. Where the leaders insisted we spend the activity writing letters to parliament. Denouncing trans rights and “explaining why it was evil from a Mormon point of view” naturally I refused this.
My newly trans sister says she will still go to church and will not conform to the patriarchy. She been a member for over 50 years and just transitioned in the last few years. She says she has friends in the relief society that support her so she'll continue to go.
"None of their damn business." This is where you are mistaken. Chapels belong to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. You join (or leave or ignore) the church; it does not join YOU.
This whole thing reminds me of open door vs closed door concept. The church will only react when they cannot cover it up. Trans people are in your face and visible while sex predators are more easily covered up and can be kept in the shadows, Trans people are in the light so they can't hide it under the rug so they are exile them instead, quietly
I'm a practicing Buddhist and the Bodhisattva of Infinite Compassion, Quan Yin (The One Who Hears the Cries of the World) is canonically genderfluid! Transgender people have ALWAYS been with us! Thank you Amanda for bringing that up! 25:17
Churches should be places of inclusion & connection w/ in a loving & compassionate faith community. That was the central message & gone out of their way to instead focus on creating policies of exclusion, which is the opposite of WWJD. So glad to see Shaye & Amanda back on your show, though I wish it was under better circumstances. I saw their original MS episode & follow them on Instagram as well. Their story is one of such deep & unconditional love, acceptance, & commitment, & is a testament to living authentically & the definition of family. They’re clearly amazing parents & have kids that make that obvious as well. The fact that this church, all in the name of Jesus & the eternal family, sees Shaye as someone kids need to be protected from, yet the many cisgendered males in the positions of church leadership who have abused children in the most horrific of ways, are protected from exposure & consequences, often allowed to continue having access to children in the ward, & are held up as beacons of safety & all the good this church promises it’s members, is a kind of hypocrisy, cruelty, & mind-f**kery that I’ll never be able to wrap my head around. Any parent who was to have Shaye or Amanda as a teacher &/or youth leader for their kids should be grateful & happy. This new policy wants those who are trans & families of these folks to go back to living in the closet, keeping secrets, living a lie, feeling constant shame & struggle, & denying their beautiful God-made selves. There is nothing Christian or Jesus-like about that. I will always be an outspoken ally for the trans community & their families, as they need our love, voices, & activism, especially right now. We see you. We stand beside you. We love you. We celebrate you.🫶🏳️⚧️🏳️🌈
I am pleased to hear this is getting national attention. The church should be ashamed of their disgusting policy change that characterizes trans as child abusers. My trans ex-mo relative is a hardworking, honest, transparent superwarrior! The hate sent his way is appalling.
"The church should be ashamed of their disgusting policy change" Here we go again. As if the church should seek your approval. "The hate sent his way is appalling." So labeling 16 million Mormons "disgusting" is NOT hateful? Maybe just church leaders. Well, okay, so be it. As the scripture says, where the body is, the vultures gather. It's not enough that thousands of Christian denominations will embrace you. Just not this ONE and that's intolerable to the tolerant.
I’m ex-Mormon for decades. I’m not surprised LDS church has taken such a stance which is harmful. I do want to make a correction. Your guest commented that Algerian boxer, Imane Khelif, is trans or implied it. Khelif is not trans. She is cis female and caught up in a false narrative she innocently fell victim.
The last person I worry about in a women's public restroom is someone originally assigned male who is taking estrogen... Really, a trans woman likely has a higher estrogen level than I did naturally even premenopausal! And she voluntarily joined the sisterhood and all our obstacles! Just not the threat that the guys making the bathroom rules think it is. We had unisex restrooms (toilet stalls and individual shower facilities) in grad school and we felt it was actually protective, not threatening. Besides, most people have unisex bathrooms at home... And it's not unusual for women to live in apartments and houses with unrelated men and no romantic connection. That was true even more than 50 years ago when I was in grad school.
The top 15 are making the same "Nov 15 policy" mistake all over again. Not only can they not see around corners, they can't even see what's in their rear view mirror.
I think maybe it comes down to priesthood. The whole reason for separating the sexes is because they think men and women have different roles, i.e. women become mothers and men get the priesthood. Trans people challenge that structure and force people to question the priesthood.
I wonder if a convert who is socially accepted post transition, would be acceptable? Or is it just 'when they know' they would have a problem.... Though would modern temple endowment still amount to the genital checks?? I know people who I accepted as they are, and only later they mentioned they were trans.
@@helenr4300 I was just thinking about this. I mean, I can't imagine why a trans person would do that to themselves, join a church that hates them this much, but the reality is that the Church would have absolutely no way of knowing if, say, a trans man called up the missionaries, took the discussions, and got baptized. Even if they requested birth certificates, plenty of states will allow people to update gender markers on their birth certificates. A number of them will actually seal the old birth certificate so that it can't be accessed by anyone but the trans person or a lawyer authorized by them to do so. Transphobes are convinced that "we can always tell," but the reality is that that is simply not true. Trans people successfully pass in the world every single day of the year, and the people we encounter have no idea at all that we're trans unless we tell them so. I think that's actually what terrifies them most, that maybe people can actually transition successfully, maybe it's not actually as set in stone as they pretend it is, maybe the world is more complex than they want it to be. I pity people who spend their lives living in such fear of a tiny, miniscule percentage of the population.
"they sure do change their mind a lot." Perhaps you could point me to the revelation where women get the priesthood. For small things, yes, having a prophet ensures that what CAN be changed, IS changed as needed and when needed.
@@styphlynne8253 "Its all politics" Mostly. Politics and religion are almost the same thing; which is why both politics and religion are topics not to be discussed at family reunions. Discussing religion and politics with friends is a good way to find out who are your friends. They don't have to agree but it is unusual to find a friend that you can disagree with while still being friend.
Speaking about the form letter: They still tell black students that BYU is a difficult school to attend. Not in an official letter, but the athletes and such are normally warned by their coaches about it during the recruitment process.
These women are beautiful inside and out. As an LGBTQ mom I’m so proud of them. I’m grateful they are willing to come on Mormon Stories to speak about their experience.
I love you Amanda and Shaye! You are beautiful, inspiring, and hilarious ladies!💗🏳️⚧️💗 These handbook changes are more reasons why no corporation should be run by 100 year old men!!🤦🏼♀️
I am a NeverMo in Moridor with many exMo & also member friends, neighbors, colleagues. The members I know are generally kind & more progressive & still if they stay they tacitly support this. Change from within by average members is super hard & slow & rare - but many seem to rationalize staying as if they might do that. If only. This is yet another demonstration that the claim that the CoJCoLDS is about family togetherness forever is plain wrong on so many levels. The ghosts of ultraRW Ezra Benson & other bigots carry on in current Oaksian authoritarianism. For trans people and their loved ones affected by this, take good care right now. There are a lot of us allies even in this terrible period of backlash.
There isn’t a voice for church members to express their feelings, beliefs, & viewpoints. It’s all up to a bunch of old white men claiming God is speaking thru them. It’s an authoritarian patriarchy & Oakes sickens me.
I'm having the same thoughts. I have a couple of very good friends. I know them to be kind, thoughtful people who have been nothing but respectful of my transition and are very politically progressive, feminist, et cetera. They're also believing Mormons who literally went to the Temple a week ago and have a kid who's serving a mission. I genuinely have no idea of how they square any of this in their heads, and while I would be fascinated to talk to them about this new policy, I also kind of think that that kind of confrontation can actually make people dig in more in a way that's not productive.
It seems to me that most transphobes would prefer that their children not know that trans people exist at all, but these policies almost require conversations to place. How does a parent answer, “Mommy, why is that man going to relief society?” without talking about it.
My Aunt was born male. She, when she was in a male body, married in the Temple and had 5 children. She transitioned from male to female and moved to a ward in Southern California where she taught Relief Society in her ward. This was back in the 1970s.
Shaye you are so brave. Thank you for sharing your story under such difficult circumstances. I wish you all the best on your journey. You are lucky to have such an amazing life partner. The church doesn’t deserve you! This is why I am so against organized religion of any kind. ❤
"Go start your own church make you own rules." I have written that many times. If the thousands of existing churches are not to your liking, start one! But that is clearly not what is wanted.
Someone on Reddit made what I fear is an accurate point: they will not repeal this policy for a very long time, because if they did so, it would mean allowing trans men the priesthood, and all associated privileges. If they do that, how could they continue to deny all AFAB people the priesthood and access to power in the church? Maybe they will walk back the most severe parts of it early, but I really think that Redditor is probably right.
I believe Jesus Christ would like to be left out of every “church” claiming to represent Him and “Biblical Truth”. Mathew 7:23 (KJV) Edited for spelling
My transgender sister lost her life recently due to pancreatic cancer. She didn't fully transition until age 60 but her last 5 years have been full of joy and authenticity for her and all of the family, including her wife of 45 years.
What a great interview and I thank you for going into considerable depth about this issue. Who are we to decide whom is worthy of God's love?
Pancreatic cancer? Wring sex hormones destroy the human endocrine system.
@@PlutoFieldsNope, her sister 😊
❤
You seriously said sister. For decades he is a biological male, and all of a sudden you call him a her because he had a psychiatric condition? What is happening to people’s brains.
"Who are we to decide whom is worthy of God's love?"
Much judgment on this page. So, just about everyone decides. However, for a *church* that will always and only be the leaders of a church. It is very easy to start your own church in the United States and have it exactly the way you want it.
It upsets me soooooo much that they are treating trans members like abusers, but nothing for actual child abusers. It’s offensive and sickening.
@@sandaroocompilations5182 EXACTLY
This!!! ^^^^^^^
@sandaroocompilations.
Talk about PERVERSION!
Old school but Existant (hermaphrodites) should have been punished for being born. Just like Beautiful Albinos born in Africa.
In the bastion of what is said to embrace God's eternal love, action speak louder than platitudes of "we love you but, your's never really good enough for God, or church unless you ignore your authentic self..." The church doesn't care about the type of harm that it's draconian policies cause. People have such a strong attachment need that they will often ignore their own mental well-being to be loved and belong to a church that continues to harm them--time and again and ironically calls it God's love. That is the travesty.
1. Make a policy in line with popular beliefs of 50 years ago. 2. Double down hard when there’s backlash. 3. Realize that huge damage has been done and tithing revenue is affected 4. God changes his mind (again), and it’s a miracle that proves the church is true.
I'm using this 😂
Absolutely spot on 😂
Except now the Church has so much money I doubt Nelson and Oaks care about losing tithing anymore. Even if every member stopped paying tithing the Church has plenty of money. Nelson and Oaks won’t live long enough to see any financial harm to the Church.
@@hturt4this was my thought. The Widows Mite Report analyzed that the church does not need members or tithing to keep the wealth accumulation going. When you have hundreds of billions of dollars in real estate, the stock market and other forms of for-profit commerce, they do not need the nuisance members and their pittance of alms.
@@AprilFriday-de6vm and there ya go
I am PIMO with a calling. I’ve decided I will resign from it tomorrow. This new church policy lacks of love, compassion and understanding. I need to figure out how to fully leave. Thanks MS + Amanda and Shaye!
Nothing to figure out ... Just leave! You won't regret it. I sure didn't!!! Hearing stories like this just confirms it all the more! Wish I didn't wait 10 years while I was in the thick of a faith crisis to leave. Amanda and Shaye are inspirational. Thank you MS for caring and giving people the platform to share.
Quit Mormon .Com
Was what I used to leave the church. It was made by a lawyer who was once a member and thought it ridiculous that the church’s process to leave was so awful, long, and invasive. So they made a website to help members leave. It makes it to where all you have to do is fill out a form/answer a few questions, and then have the letter stating you want to leave that they generate for you notarized (the church is the one that requires the notary), send it off and they take care of the rest for you!
It’s a free service but they do accept donations to help keep the website running.
The only indication you get from the church that your records have been removed is an email saying your email is no longer associated to the Mormon main website (lds. Com/whatever they call it now). The church doesn’t even send you a letter or email or anything saying that your records have been removed, just that. So once you get that email, you’re good!
What is your calling?
Out of 10 kids 6 sibs have written a letter (1 paragraph) and had their name & LD$/Auschwitz # removed. All welcomed back with baptism at any time btw- I had mine removed decades ago as my sister was beaten in the 60s for dating a person of color. I have never chose to join again though. mormons are falling fast at not even 200 yrs
Watch the Mormon stories on David archuleta's mom leaving because of how they treated lgbtq plus. It's a beautiful story and she said the same thing. She was sitting there in Sacramento meeting and realized there was no love there.
As an ex member, I'm removing my name from the church's records. I used to not care bc it didn't impact me. But I refuse to have my name associated with any organization that feels comfortable making policies like this.
Yes. They're not the only ones allowed to have a list. You can have a list too and relegate them right down or right off it.
We are too.
@@celinepope They will send you a letter . I was so angry I tore it up. I regret that action . I am 66 years old and I remember the bigoted teachings they are trying to hide .
My cousin was born without a perfect XX chromosome & also hormone variances. Over time she was a simple tomboy. As she feels more male and accepts her lot as male LD$ puts her in the same category as the pedophile and porn addict in Utah setting standards for all. YEP, same as my sister who married a black man in the 60s.
This is why I bothered to do it as well. Want nothing to do with this damaging organization ❤
I love Amanda and Shaye and give them a load of credit for sharing their story.
Welp, between this and the Church acting like an absolute mafia about temples in small towns, I think it's time to officially resign. Since they don't listen to opposing votes, I guess they'll just have to take my request for records removal.
They will as thousands are leaving for various reasons. LD$ isn't even 200 yrs old! New age politics is not god. Dont let them shame you with meeting locals! After a year or so you can get rebaptized with knowledge!
Yeah Shaye, I totally agree about the background checks!!! If the church is worried about child abuse, then all people working or volunteering with children (bishops, teachers, etc.) need to be background checked annually. I cannot believe this does not happen AND I cannot believe that LdS families just simply trust random un background checked adults being alone with their children. Like John said the child abuse is being perpetrated by believing cis heterosexual men, not trans people.
As a never Mormon I thought this was bizarre. I work as a teacher and I volunteer in seniors centres and my local hospital. Not only do I need a background check, I need to renew every 2 years. I’m happy to do so! Vulnerable folks deserve protection even when it’s mildly inconvenient.
In Davis County UTAH there are dozens of groups for pedophiles, porn addicts, alcoholics, & drug users. But a child born a hermaphrodite (ancient term) shall be chastised, criticized and cast away like garbage? Little LGBT support
My trans sibling has never come anywhere close to being a predator. As far as I can tell, none of my LGBTQ+ family and friends have ever come close to being a predator. You know who did? The two worthy Priesthood leaders who molested me on two different occasions. The Hypocrisy and the pain they're causing makes me nauseous.
Background checks are required by the Church. I’ve done them many times and I’m LDS.
@@daffodilfleur not true. The LDS church actually advocates publicly against background checks. They have been required to do it in certain states (eg California , Illinois) and countries (eg England) due to child abuse issues. But even now in Utah and Idaho as well as other states, no background check is required for bishops or volunteers with children.
So glad I left the church 23 years ago and gave myself the freedom to stop judging my family and friends, loving them for WHO they truly are and being their forever friend and life cheerleader. Bless you Amanda and Shaye!
I left the church over the 2015 policy. It took me some time to decide to leave in full, but spiritually that was the end for me.
I'm really feeling I need to leave after this!
@kelleyturner6584 If you do, there are ressources for you. And a lot of support from people all over the world.
@@charisma-hornum-fries I too want my name taken off their membership roles. However, I don’t know my membership number. As far as I can tell, I may be forced to speak to a local bishop to get this done. I resent being put in a position of coming to them at all.
@@kelleyturner6584 excommunication isnt even a thing any more as thousands are leaving. Write a paragraph to LD$ records, notarize its you, bypass your "meeting with authorities" (embarrass tactic) You are welcome to be baptized again any time :) as I was. I will never forget the shame given to my sister for dating a person of color. This is not gods way, this is all about politics.
My high-school boyfriend was investigating the church and he was in a priesthood meeting. The lesson was about the eternal nature of sex and gender. He was 17 talking to a grown middle aged man.
(please excuse the outdated term. This was a long time ago and education was limited. The word was used with pure intentions and no malice.)
My boyfriend: "what about hermaphrodites?" [intersex people]
My bishop: "do you believe in unicorns?"
🙄
to be fair not a whole lot of people know about intersex people
That is WILD. This is why gender studies needs to be a requirement. Not only for education and awareness but for the sale of people's identities.
@@guzlemuzle- To be fair? No excuse. If you don’t know the answer then don’t reply w/ a comment that implies intersex doesn’t exist. 🤦🏻♀️
"My boyfriend: "what about hermaphrodites?""
The church offers to check your DNA and help to become one or the other depending on your internal organs and DNA. Or you can stay hermaphrodite. I suspect, but do not know, that certain roles appointed to men might not be available to hermaphrodites that are genetically female.
Conversely, being genetically male does not guarantee priesthood office.
"please excuse the outdated term"
Sure. You will have to ask forgiveness for using ordinary ancient words here. It is unlikely you will confuse anyone; and given the degree of love, tolerance and liberty by this crowd, I can see why you ask forgiveness. You could inadvertently *sin* .
A true testament to how little study and education they do in general. Apparently the Sunday School echo chamber is enough. And they can definitively speak about things they don't know anything about. How comfortable for them.
Disgusting. I just sent my resignation letter to my stake president.
@@DeeMangum-h8b you will receive a letter in the mail . I tore mine up with a surprising emotion. I wish I would have kept it now just to show people.
No you didnt hahaha
Have you been an active member?
@Ketchup584 Why doubt Thomas?
The letter confirming my resignation arrived yesterday.
We have transgender men/women teachers in South Africa. They are not child molesters. Love you Shaye and Amanda
Please contact me.I am in Durban
I am a proud parent of one of those trans kids.
So a narcissistic child abuser then.
🙋🏼♀️🙋🏼♀️🙋🏼♀️
There is no such thing as being born in the wrong body
@@user-gl8ms3ie7kIt's not about the body. It's about the brain.
I am so very sorry about this news. Your child has been learning about themself and accepting themself in a new way, and to have the church not just reject, but to put them in a class with sexual abusers is so very wrong.
I’m a nevermo, but have family/friends in the church and am the parent of a trans son. Didn’t think the ‘church’ could go any lower, but they have. Just vile.
Thank you to these two this is very disturbing to me also I have a transgender grandchild love to both of you and thank you John😊❤
I'm sure your grandchild is very appreciative of you 💗💗💗
As a parent of a trans kiddo who has had affirming surgery and care, it was clear that once he had his surgery it saved his life. If I hadn’t left the church a year ago due to other things like the church using government in Utah to fight against legalizing marijuana and not caring in other states, the SEC crap and mostly NOT protecting children from abuse through reporting properly, then this exact thing would have pushed me out. I was a faithful member, albeit with doubts, my entire life (40 years) but I will always choose my children over the church; otherwise eternal families don’t really matter, right?!?
"I will always choose my children over the church; otherwise eternal families don’t really matter, right?"
It is a bit of a catch-22, but yes. If you leave the church, no eternal family. If they leave the church, no eternal family.
@@thomasmaughan4798 says the Mormon church. More coercive abuse. They come at you with, ‘boy howdy, did you know that with the LDS church you and your family can be together for all eternity’ as if other religions don’t already believe they’ll be with them in the afterlife.
The rates of people being born intersex isn't that rare. There are approx the same number of intersex people as their are natural red heads. Think about how many people you might know of that have natural red hair, for me it's 2 or 3, you probably know the same amount of intersex people, you just don't know it.
Exactly!!!!
Yes! It's even higher than we think because technically intersex is when your chromosomes don't align with typical sex chromosomes. So, with genome testing, we are finding so many more intersex people.
@@celinepopeindeed, before genetics the distinction would never be known in those cases. And before 20th century medical scans etc knowledge of internal variations would not have been clear either.
I have followed Amanda and Shaye for years. They are heros and trailblazers.
It’s so hard to believe the many steps back they (LDS organization) has taken with this new ruling. It’s going to be very interesting to see peoples’ reactions.
Thank you for your lgbtq+ activism❤
I am a CONSERVATIVE american and LIBERL MORMON!!! Go Trump! Go LGBTQ! Go NEMO! go JESUS CHRIST!!! (learn the sins of the fathers and forgive them )
@@99blackbirds ?
@99blackbird😊s NO MORE TRUMP NO MORE TRUMP NO MORE TRUMP NO MORE TRUMP NO MORE TRUMP NO MORE TRUMP NO MORE TRUMP NO MORE TRUMP NO MORE TRUMP NO MORE TRUMP NO MORE TRUMP NO MORE TRUMP NO MORE TRUMP NO MORE TRUMP NO MORE TRUMP NO MORE TRUMP NO MORE TRUMP NO MORE TRUMP NO MORE TRUMP NO MORE TRUMP
I truly don’t understand how transgender people would want to stay in the church. The church doesn’t align or seem to want to understand this topic. Sending my love to all.❤️
"I truly don’t understand how transgender people would want to stay in the church."
Agreed. It is about *family* which in turn is about human reproduction.
@@thomasmaughan4798 Transgender people can reproduce, have kids, and can have kids in other ways. What about people who were infertile as is, transgender or not? What then
Also OP as someone who was trying to make that work for years, it was entirely because of the threat of losing my family. The idea that I wouldn't have any friends or family left after leaving was really hard, but in the end I had to make the choice to leave. The threat of being alone is scary
@@toriray6126 "Transgender people can reproduce, have kids"
I'll believe it when I see it (or at least reliable news stories). For now it appears fake vaginas cannot produce and bear babies.
"What about people who were infertile"
They will not reproduce. For such person to remain in the church will require considerable faith in eventual opportunity because of this intense focus on the family.
@@thomasmaughan4798
You make a marvelous point.
"FAMILY", as JESUS MAKES THE POINT,
IS NOT ABOUT BUILDING
DYNASTY,
DYNASTIC WEALTH,
heirs and descends to BUY UO ALL THE LAND,
essential resources,
housing,
"SO THAT YOU ALONE MAY DWELL UPON THE Earth"!
It is the FAMILY OF
CREATION
not
the creation of a family
or of a family "name".
I was shocked by the churches policy about the intersexed!!! Letting the "parent" decide what sex the child is, instead of allowing the child to chose! So many stories of the intersexed being mutilated because a parent made the decision for them. So wrong!
Yep even worse when the parents keep it a secret for the kids. So messed up
"instead of allowing the child to chose!"
A newborn is in no position to choose anything. Parents have many duties with regard to children and children do not get many choices (at law). That's just the way it is. If you are a parent, you can certainly abrogate your duties and big blue cities show plenty of evidence of what happens next.
@@thomasmaughan4798 please look into this topic before acting like this is a parents “duty”.
A vast majority of the time the operation is unnecessary (only to make the infants genitals align with our idea of male or female). That is something they can choose when they’re older. Especially since the operation always causes complications when done before puberty. It’s selfish to make that choice for an infant when it’s cosmetic and not life threatening.
@@WaffleSalad A parent's (noun) duty is to parent (verb). Bear and raise children to become adults who in their turn also bear and raise children. It sort of is not your job to interfere in someone else's parenting; nor mine to interfere in yours.
HOWEVER, evolution will reveal strategies that turn out to be effective. The medical benefits of circumcision seem indisputable and significant; not that I have any idea WHY a parent chooses this. Jews obviously. It is part of the Abrahamic covenant.
"Yes, male circumcision is a common practice in Muslim countries and is strongly encouraged in Islam, though it is not required. It is considered an important ritual that aims to improve cleanliness and is seen as a sign of belonging to the Islamic faith. The practice is also said to have been performed by the prophet Abraham, who Muslims believe circumcised himself at the age of 80."
It is unsurprising that the opponents of it tend to be Democrats for whom various things substitute for their former religions. It produces oddities such as forbidding to circumcise BUT okay to cut it completely off.
@@thomasmaughan4798 this convo isn’t about choosing to circumcise your kid. It’s about intersex kids getting their genitals “corrected” to look “right” for their gender. That can wait till they’re 18 and they can decide if they want the surgery or not. *Especially* when nobody is going to be seeing it and it won’t impact the child socially at all. It’s literally just for the parents at that point.
It’s wildly irresponsible to have this operation done (for no reason other than conforming to male or female) on your infant with all the known complications associated with the operation
As someone working through some transphobia, it is so good to hear this perspective. I think the word phobia is apt - it is a fear of the unknown. The more we listen to those who are different from us and empathize with their perspective and experience, the better the world is. Thank you John for having a platform for these voices, and thank you Shaye and Amanda for being willing to share your experience.
Phobia is usually abused and misused. Many things I do not fear but also do not embrace. With regard to language, I am pedantic. I learned the meaning of words long ago and I see no reason to change meanings of words every day. How can one communicate? It is impossible. How about reading history? Impossible. Writing a journal for your descendants? They will laugh at your word choices.
@@thomasmaughan4798 yeah I think a lot of people mean trans hate, not trans phobia. But maybe that branches from fears and insecurities too.
@@jackiejormpjomp "I think a lot of people mean trans hate, not trans phobia."
For sure. As for me, I neither fear nor hate "trans" and if you are good enough at it, I shouldn't even notice. However, I simply have nothing in common with such persons and they tend to be very demanding with pronouns and so on.
I do not specify my pronouns because they are YOUR word choices, not mine! When would you EVER use my pronouns talking to ME? So, yeah, my pronouns are me, myself and I. That is how I refer to myself when I am talking about myself. If I am talking about you, I will choose the words I use.
The one man I know that transitioned accepts that I am not going to call him a woman. But he's also no longer a man. So I don't really have a way to say what he is.
@@thomasmaughan4798 shouldn’t you be in church?
Like John said, it's so ironic that this is coming out when RMN is knocking on death's door. Just like the commentary letter wasn't signed. Amanda and Shaye, thank you so much for sharing your story!! You are two beautiful souls!! ❤❤❤
Seriously though, how can you not admire and adore these two people?!
The rule that actually disturbs me most is the one about only being allowed to use a single occupancy toilet and, I quote, "Alternatively, a “trusted person” must be stationed outside the restroom to keep others from entering when a transgender person uses a restroom that aligns with their personal gender identity." - Imagine having to go to the toilet and having the entire restroom blocked off because you're in there. Imagine having a bowel disease and needing a lot of time in there, while you can imagine the line outside and people getting upset at you, and when you come out...the stares. This is entirely inhumane
"Imagine having to go to the toilet and having the entire restroom blocked off because you're in there."
Yes. The men's room has one commode and one urinal. Only two men can be in there anyway.
"Imagine having a bowel disease and needing a lot of time in there"
Yes. Anyone that needs to sit is going to have to wait; the commode is occupied.
As a recent YW President, I would have gladly had a trans woman as one of my counselors. It is awful that the church leadership are treating trans men and women as a danger to kids. And the restrictions to trans kids and youth is going to be so damaging.
Delusional
I will be more concerned if I were the parent of a 14 years old girl and if Joseph Smith "the prophet" was my next door neighbor..
@@PlutoFields you sound exactly like an obstinately uninformed, uneducated person who is scared and angry and needs someone else to do the thinking for you. What are you afraid of?
I hope you arent a YW president anymore.
I would like to say that these new exclusionary policies surprise me but tbh it doesn't really. I guess I have been expecting them to go after us with a renewed vigor. I transitioned and left the church in 2015 but as an adult I could do that. My concern now is for the safety of the young people that can't just leave. I think that this will drive them to desperation, which, sadly, is usually s**cide. I know this, I have been there :(
I’m happy you’re here with us ❤
@@CelestialBarbie Thank you so much, and I too am glad that I chose to stay :)
With you and these kids ❤
Thank you for covering this, I hope many people leave this unChristlike church. This policy has Oaks' fingerprints all over it.
I'm not Mormon, but I have a trans daughter, and she wouldn't hurt a fly. It's terrible to know that others will treat her as less than human.
Crazy that they’re doubling down on fascist segregation. I saw jasmine from scriptureplus say it’s lovely as she described all the points of segregation!🤯. I had several members tell me on TikTok that the new policy is loving. I can’t stand the gaslighting! I hope this is a Nov 2015 moment! People should stop acting as if the LDS corporation cares about anyone!
It’s not saying to respect pronouns. It’s saying don’t tell or force members to use someone preferred o pronouns
"People should stop acting as if the LDS corporation cares about anyone!"
I believe no one has claimed the corporation cares about anyone. In what manner would this "acting" be manifest?
Love it when two of my fave channels collab! Shaye and Amanda: I found you through Five Two Love, and have subbed ever since. I enjoyed your decorating style and loved watching your house transform in to a home (I will never forget those Potteresque floating candles!). Amanda's projects and the renos in the theatre room along with some cool new tech (the lit up thingies on the walls) had me in awe, as we share the same aesthetic, althought not the same budget, lol. So I have been a steady follower...and I just want to say how much I've loved getting to know Shaye over the past while. And I especially LOVE your witty shorts that drive home strong points in the most creative and humorous way! I hope they change some minds along the way.
Churches really are fighting for their obsolescence
Also, if someone has legally changed their gender through their government documents (in the U.S.) on their birth certificate, with social security, etc with doctor’s support, then the church is denying a legal document?
I actually wonder how this will comport with laws in Europe. In the UK, organizations are required by law to maintain accurate records. If they refuse to update your information on request, you can potentially take legal action against them under GDPR (though it doesn't typically come to that). I don't know whether churches or other religious institutions have an exemption to that law or not, but it seems like this could get interesting if people really want to push it. It also seems like the whole, "We'll flag you the way we flag child molesters," thing could run afoul of the Equalities Act, but again, they may get a pass because they're ostensibly a religious organization.
50:33 I have to respectfully disagree on this interpretation: the LDS church doesn't seem overly concerned about preventing child abuse; I suspect that the prohibition of letting trans people teach/work with children is to prevent children from meeting trans people and getting to know them as people not unlike themselves. As civil rights for everyone increase, it makes it increasingly difficult to frighten your homogeneous population into the corner you want to keep them in where you can convince them of whatever you want to.
Children who grow up around trans people grow into adults who are less likely to fall for trans-panic inspired fear mongering.
Especially when people think it’s a “social contagion”. Can’t have the kids being around trans people because they might turn trans ((sarcasm))
However a lot of people also think trans people are predators so it truly could be either or both
💯
They don’t want trans folk around for (2) reasons; 1) they believe being trans may be contagious; & 2) They equate being trans as a type of sexual deviancy that their flock needs to be protected from.
Strange the church doesn’t feel the same need to protect its children & young women from pedophiles & other sexual predators. They don’t even do a simple background check on members “called to” work w/ minors. Hypocrisy much?!🤦🏻♀️
And the 'contagion' aspect, saw this over gay youth leaders, 'they will turn the kids gay'. To which I replied that all the straight leaders couldn't turn the gay youth straight, so...
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints places enormous emphasis on family. Therefore, bishops must be the husband of one wife, says so right in the bible, and presumably anyone teaching children should set an example of an eternal family.
I am a cis gay never-Mormon man raised in evangelical Christianity. I am baffled why this church feels the need to institute and publicize formal exclusionary policies or doctrine. Most churches I know of either have an LGBTQIA affirming policy, or they have no stated policy and varying levels of tolerance or acceptance, but most are not inclusive. Many preach against it based on their interpretation of Bible passages, but without a formal policy or doctrine change.
The whole basis of this church is gender though. Everything is segregated from the age of 12 onwards and gender roles are literally drilled into every aspect of your personality/life plan/ideals. It’s so fucked.
@@TradBarbie nailed it. 🔨 Unwelcome is the default.
I was Mormon from a devout family, slowly left over 20+ years. I have a trans kid, and LGBTQIA+ nieces and nephews too. They have hit my mama bear fury, and I f#%$* pissed off!
I think they are separating out the wheat from the chaff. It is their version of a course correction back to their ultra conservative roots. They are solving a bunch of problems like the “liberal wing” pushing for changes, how can we modify our policies to cover this more complicated gender fluid world, we really don’t want to include any of the LGB…alphabet. So it’s those old geriatric octogenarians, yanking the wheel of the mini van suddenly to the right while opening the doors on the left side hoping all the lefty weirdos they don’t like fall out or jump, but you can bet anybody who they see as undesirable, who is left after that course correction, will get excommunicated, or whatever they call it now 🙄 , if they don’t tow the line. I also agree with John that the timing is definitively political.
They added an A now? Ffs😂
"I am baffled why this church feels the need to institute and publicize formal exclusionary policies or doctrine."
All churches ought to publish doctrine and policy. Those that do not can barely be called a church. However, most Christian churches lack any sort of authority structure and just sort of stumble along democratically more or less.
omg i love their family! im so happy you got them on the show
They did an in depth video on their Mormon stories a few yrs ago, before Shaye fully transitioned socially. It was excellent & makes you love these 2 more. That’s how I first heard of them, before they had their Insta page. Beautiful kids x 3 as well.
Thank you for being courageous enough to make yourselves vulnerable and talk about your journey.
I come from a TBM family and have a trans nephew. As an ex-mo, I am the only one in the family that will acknowledge my nephew. He is braver than I could ever be and I am so proud of him. I am disappointed how this dangerous rhetoric rips apart families and causes them to reject their own.
Thank you for this stream. Love to all of you.
I'm a non-religious, never mormon, and I wish I knew what I could do to help the very real people who are going to be harmed by this ridiculous policy.
It's always interesting to me when the Proclamation on the Family comes up since it was praying about that document in the Celestial room of the Jordan River Temple that I got clarity that I was transgender. I did exactly what I was told to do, and the idea that gender is eternal was what lead me to come to peace with being trans.
Me too!! At the time, it felt like the Proclamation on the Family was saying that my gender is eternal, and to live in a life and body that was incongruent with that gender would be against God's plan. I fasted and prayed earnestly, over and over again, asking if I should transition. The feeling of peace and acceptance from Heavenly Father, every single time, was and is the clearest revelation I've had my whole life.
When anyone gives a percentage of the population as a justification for irrelevance, I think it's extremely important to humanize that number. 1% of the US population is ~3,314,000 humans. We are talking about humans, people who love, work, care, and live. Each of them, all of them are worthy of acknowledgment. They ARE significant. Ignoring any minority group or need because it's "only" a "small" percentage is a wild approach. I'm so glad that the 1%-2% spoken of here was contextualized as significant because they are.
I am the mother of three (now adult) children assigned male at birth. My oldest came out as trans at age 28 and my other two identify as male but have had relationships with opposite sex and same sex. I grew up in the church but always had questions and doubts and was viewed as a bad Mormon. I haven’t attended church in 27 years. I started listening to Mormon Stories and other xMo channel’s and have learned so much and have been so validated. I have been wanting to officially withdraw my name from the church for over a year now. I even tried using Quit Mormon just last week only to realise I will probably need to talk to the local bishop as I have no idea how to find my membership number. Ughh! Learning about this massive step backwards into such devastating intolerance and hate has made my wish to officially leave the church 1000 times stronger. Looking for the fast track to them no longer being able to count me in their bloated membership numbers.
Your kids are so lucky to have you! I wish my parents were accepting of queerness, it's a whole different type of heartbreak
@@blisteryurt - I’m sorry for your situation, and hope it gets better.
My parents aren’t supportive either, I have made my own life and friends about three hours away and have a great life without them.
But it’s hard when I see others with lovely family lives.
My mothers last phone call to me was a month ago and it was to have a go at me for something I said at Christmas, that was true, but didn’t align with her ideals, so she called me a liar. She is older and has fragile health and I wish we could just say how much we love each other instead of analysing the past, but she won’t or can’t.
I can’t imagine what life would be like with grandparents (my parents) who love and support their offspring, they have many and haven’t given a gift to any, or even acknowledged any of them, but boast to others how many they have.
@@blisteryurt I’m so sorry your parents don’t understand how wonderful you are as YOU.
I feel lucky to have my kids just as they all are. As long as they are kind, loving people, that’s enough for me. Their strength and courage to live as they are in such a time of LGBTQIA being demonized and politicized makes me so proud of them. You should be proud too.
"children assigned male at birth"
How was this assignment made? Flip a coin? But that's so *binary* !
I *observed* the sex of my child; there was no *assignment* .
@@thomasmaughan4798 sex =/= gender 🫶
So so happy for you both! I flllow your shorts and yall inspire me everyday. Shaye is unbreakable 💪🏼
This doesn't all surprise me. My YSA bishop told me that if I were to transition medically, I would lose my calling as a Sunday school teacher and no longer be able to go to the temple. It broke my heart and now 2-3 yrs ltr they are doubling down on what was in the guidebook to begin with imo.
This is so important.Thank you for covering this.❤
Shaye and Amanda's hair is hairing (just started watching, excited to watch!)
Their hair is absolutely gorgeous!!🫶🏼
Such an intelligent and lovely couple. May your life continue to be blessed. 🩷✌🏽
Shaye and Amanda are such a beautiful couple, inside and out! I'm so happy you had them back.
This transphobia wave is sooo weird. It is such a small percentage of the whole population; but they make it sound like very urgent issue.
By the way, I don’t have anything against everyone doing whatever they want with their body or identity.
I just think that this had to be put into perspective.
It's because they are the latest SCAPEGOAT!
From a female perspective, it is harming women's rights, when men want to compete in female sports, pageants etc. From parent's perspective, this massive trend and trans hipe is harming children in puberty, when they are searching for their identity, not allowing them to fully develop mentally and physically. It is a very harming ideology, the same as mormonism.
@@usagi_tan ‘ideology’? I would maybe educate yourself on human gender identity throughout known human history. It’s been part of the human experience for a long time.
@@CatskillsGrrl Educate yourself on how this trend is harmful. Castrating children and taking away female rights.
@@usagi_t Have you considered that you might not have all the information about this topic? Just like you're asking others to do, I would encourage you to seek out some unbiased sources about trans people, the spectrum of gender through human history, the current biological and scientific understanding of the subject, and who is profiting from people believing false things about trans people. You're right - we should all continue to question and reevaluate our beliefs, and be willing to change them when we learn new information. Please don't exempt yourself from your own call to be educated on all sides of the subject.
God bless you! Forget and leave any organization that holds judgement.
Then you will be separated from God. As he holds judgment. He also laid out clearly what we are to stay away from. We have discernment. Youre basically saying God makes mistakes. And to live in sin. Not good.
@@onlyicedcrybaby7297Your leap from a possible creator to the angry and jealous Abrahamic deity has no credible evidence. How many millions of innocent children were needlessly slaughtered in the global flood? Their position on slavery was also terrible as is the misogyny and now homophobia. Stop using your dogma to attack people different than you.
@@onlyicedcrybaby7297No, that’s not at all what she’s saying. God is one thing, the church run by flawed humans who abuse their authority is entirely another. People leave the abusive church to draw near to God and have peace.
Thanks beautiful people for your lovely spirits and dignity.
I just hope the closeted trans kids at BYU are ok. I remember when the 2015 policy came out, I had never felt so alone there. This likely has a similar or worse impact on them.
1 step forward, 100 billion steps backward
My sister has a grandchild that is transgender man. I love him so much. My sister is still an all in Mormon, it breaks my heart that he isn't getting all the support from the family
I mad/sad/happy cried throughout this entire episode 🏳️⚧️🫂🏳️🌈🫂✊🏳️⚧️
Oaks is going to take the church hard hard right. His homophobia will cause many extreme “policy / doctrine”
And DezNat will be rejoicing!
This would be funny if not for all the members and especially the children who will suffer so much at Oaks hands.
@@kelleyturner6584 good point. Gods racist sexist fanatics will rejoice.
😂😂😂😂
Shaye!!! We love you! Hugs hugs hugs!!!!
The “threat” is someone actually being themselves.
I’m going back about 20 years when I was in young men’s. We had a joint activity young mens/young womens. Where the leaders insisted we spend the activity writing letters to parliament. Denouncing trans rights and “explaining why it was evil from a Mormon point of view” naturally I refused this.
What an amazing couple. A fine definition of pure love and mutual respect. I would love to watch their channel❤
If they’re ACTUALLY worried about kids getting hurt (which they’re not) then they’d say this about men.
My newly trans sister says she will still go to church and will not conform to the patriarchy. She been a member for over 50 years and just transitioned in the last few years. She says she has friends in the relief society that support her so she'll continue to go.
It’s so hateful. Period. None of their damn business.
"None of their damn business."
This is where you are mistaken. Chapels belong to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. You join (or leave or ignore) the church; it does not join YOU.
@@thomasmaughan4798 think again. majority of everyone in LDS is actually born into it.
This whole thing reminds me of open door vs closed door concept. The church will only react when they cannot cover it up. Trans people are in your face and visible while sex predators are more easily covered up and can be kept in the shadows, Trans people are in the light so they can't hide it under the rug so they are exile them instead, quietly
I'm a practicing Buddhist and the Bodhisattva of Infinite Compassion, Quan Yin (The One Who Hears the Cries of the World) is canonically genderfluid! Transgender people have ALWAYS been with us! Thank you Amanda for bringing that up! 25:17
Love this couple and love your channel 👏❤️
Trans money, spends like anyone's money
Churches should be places of inclusion & connection w/ in a loving & compassionate faith community. That was the central message & gone out of their way to instead focus on creating policies of exclusion, which is the opposite of WWJD.
So glad to see Shaye & Amanda back on your show, though I wish it was under better circumstances. I saw their original MS episode & follow them on Instagram as well. Their story is one of such deep & unconditional love, acceptance, & commitment, & is a testament to living authentically & the definition of family. They’re clearly amazing parents & have kids that make that obvious as well. The fact that this church, all in the name of Jesus & the eternal family, sees Shaye as someone kids need to be protected from, yet the many cisgendered males in the positions of church leadership who have abused children in the most horrific of ways, are protected from exposure & consequences, often allowed to continue having access to children in the ward, & are held up as beacons of safety & all the good this church promises it’s members, is a kind of hypocrisy, cruelty, & mind-f**kery that I’ll never be able to wrap my head around. Any parent who was to have Shaye or Amanda as a teacher &/or youth leader for their kids should be grateful & happy.
This new policy wants those who are trans & families of these folks to go back to living in the closet, keeping secrets, living a lie, feeling constant shame & struggle, & denying their beautiful God-made selves. There is nothing Christian or Jesus-like about that.
I will always be an outspoken ally for the trans community & their families, as they need our love, voices, & activism, especially right now. We see you. We stand beside you. We love you. We celebrate you.🫶🏳️⚧️🏳️🌈
I am pleased to hear this is getting national attention. The church should be ashamed of their disgusting policy change that characterizes trans as child abusers. My trans ex-mo relative is a hardworking, honest, transparent superwarrior! The hate sent his way is appalling.
"The church should be ashamed of their disgusting policy change"
Here we go again. As if the church should seek your approval.
"The hate sent his way is appalling."
So labeling 16 million Mormons "disgusting" is NOT hateful? Maybe just church leaders. Well, okay, so be it. As the scripture says, where the body is, the vultures gather. It's not enough that thousands of Christian denominations will embrace you. Just not this ONE and that's intolerable to the tolerant.
Rusty just spreads love wherever he goes.
I’m ex-Mormon for decades. I’m not surprised LDS church has taken such a stance which is harmful.
I do want to make a correction. Your guest commented that Algerian boxer, Imane Khelif, is trans or implied it. Khelif is not trans. She is cis female and caught up in a false narrative she innocently fell victim.
Thank you, Shay and Amanda, for sharing your thoughts and for being open. I am disgusted that they have introduced these rules. Thank goodness I left.
The last person I worry about in a women's public restroom is someone originally assigned male who is taking estrogen... Really, a trans woman likely has a higher estrogen level than I did naturally even premenopausal! And she voluntarily joined the sisterhood and all our obstacles! Just not the threat that the guys making the bathroom rules think it is.
We had unisex restrooms (toilet stalls and individual shower facilities) in grad school and we felt it was actually protective, not threatening. Besides, most people have unisex bathrooms at home... And it's not unusual for women to live in apartments and houses with unrelated men and no romantic connection. That was true even more than 50 years ago when I was in grad school.
The top 15 are making the same "Nov 15 policy" mistake all over again. Not only can they not see around corners, they can't even see what's in their rear view mirror.
God absolutely LOVES you!!! 🙏
I think maybe it comes down to priesthood. The whole reason for separating the sexes is because they think men and women have different roles, i.e. women become mothers and men get the priesthood. Trans people challenge that structure and force people to question the priesthood.
I wonder if a convert who is socially accepted post transition, would be acceptable? Or is it just 'when they know' they would have a problem.... Though would modern temple endowment still amount to the genital checks?? I know people who I accepted as they are, and only later they mentioned they were trans.
@@helenr4300 Yes, I was wondering something along those lines too. What if a trans person went there and nobody could tell they were trans?
@@helenr4300 I was just thinking about this. I mean, I can't imagine why a trans person would do that to themselves, join a church that hates them this much, but the reality is that the Church would have absolutely no way of knowing if, say, a trans man called up the missionaries, took the discussions, and got baptized. Even if they requested birth certificates, plenty of states will allow people to update gender markers on their birth certificates. A number of them will actually seal the old birth certificate so that it can't be accessed by anyone but the trans person or a lawyer authorized by them to do so.
Transphobes are convinced that "we can always tell," but the reality is that that is simply not true. Trans people successfully pass in the world every single day of the year, and the people we encounter have no idea at all that we're trans unless we tell them so. I think that's actually what terrifies them most, that maybe people can actually transition successfully, maybe it's not actually as set in stone as they pretend it is, maybe the world is more complex than they want it to be. I pity people who spend their lives living in such fear of a tiny, miniscule percentage of the population.
For a church that claims to have a prophet receiving direct revelations from God, they sure do change their mind a lot.
"they sure do change their mind a lot."
Perhaps you could point me to the revelation where women get the priesthood. For small things, yes, having a prophet ensures that what CAN be changed, IS changed as needed and when needed.
Its all politics - LD$ isnt even 200 yrs old. New Age Religion falls fast !!
@@styphlynne8253 "Its all politics"
Mostly. Politics and religion are almost the same thing; which is why both politics and religion are topics not to be discussed at family reunions. Discussing religion and politics with friends is a good way to find out who are your friends. They don't have to agree but it is unusual to find a friend that you can disagree with while still being friend.
Wow that devilish distortion sounds warily familiar to Jodi Hildebrant and Ruby Frankie😬😬😬
Speaking about the form letter: They still tell black students that BYU is a difficult school to attend. Not in an official letter, but the athletes and such are normally warned by their coaches about it during the recruitment process.
These women are beautiful inside and out. As an LGBTQ mom I’m so proud of them. I’m grateful they are willing to come on Mormon Stories to speak about their experience.
Both Shaye and Amanda are such Kind and warm human beeings! I love to listen to them.
Love Shaye and Amanda❤
All my love to Shaye and Amanda ❤❤❤
I love you Amanda and Shaye! You are beautiful, inspiring, and hilarious ladies!💗🏳️⚧️💗 These handbook changes are more reasons why no corporation should be run by 100 year old men!!🤦🏼♀️
I am a NeverMo in Moridor with many exMo & also member friends, neighbors, colleagues. The members I know are generally kind & more progressive & still if they stay they tacitly support this. Change from within by average members is super hard & slow & rare - but many seem to rationalize staying as if they might do that. If only. This is yet another demonstration that the claim that the CoJCoLDS is about family togetherness forever is plain wrong on so many levels. The ghosts of ultraRW Ezra Benson & other bigots carry on in current Oaksian authoritarianism.
For trans people and their loved ones affected by this, take good care right now. There are a lot of us allies even in this terrible period of backlash.
There isn’t a voice for church members to express their feelings, beliefs, & viewpoints. It’s all up to a bunch of old white men claiming God is speaking thru them. It’s an authoritarian patriarchy & Oakes sickens me.
I'm having the same thoughts. I have a couple of very good friends. I know them to be kind, thoughtful people who have been nothing but respectful of my transition and are very politically progressive, feminist, et cetera. They're also believing Mormons who literally went to the Temple a week ago and have a kid who's serving a mission. I genuinely have no idea of how they square any of this in their heads, and while I would be fascinated to talk to them about this new policy, I also kind of think that that kind of confrontation can actually make people dig in more in a way that's not productive.
Just read this policy with the label Mormon instead of transgender member and see how quickly church would scream religious persecution
Great video! Love y'all. ❤
Glad you enjoyed it
It seems to me that most transphobes would prefer that their children not know that trans people exist at all, but these policies almost require conversations to place. How does a parent answer, “Mommy, why is that man going to relief society?” without talking about it.
I love their videos! They are relationship goals 😍
My Aunt was born male. She, when she was in a male body, married in the Temple and had 5 children. She transitioned from male to female and moved to a ward in Southern California where she taught Relief Society in her ward. This was back in the 1970s.
This policy is at the very least, heinous. The hate and ignorance is astounding.
Odd. Weird to think I wouldn’t be worthy of baptism over something so insignificant/unproblematic
Shaye you are so brave. Thank you for sharing your story under such difficult circumstances. I wish you all the best on your journey. You are lucky to have such an amazing life partner. The church doesn’t deserve you! This is why I am so against organized religion of any kind. ❤
I just started watching and am SO stoked to see Shaye and Amanda back! (despite this really gross and upsetting policy/reason for the show today).
Unbelievable! Go start your own church make you own rules. LDS Church has proven itself to be So blatantly untrue. I want my tithe money back!
"Go start your own church make you own rules."
I have written that many times. If the thousands of existing churches are not to your liking, start one! But that is clearly not what is wanted.
Someone on Reddit made what I fear is an accurate point: they will not repeal this policy for a very long time, because if they did so, it would mean allowing trans men the priesthood, and all associated privileges. If they do that, how could they continue to deny all AFAB people the priesthood and access to power in the church? Maybe they will walk back the most severe parts of it early, but I really think that Redditor is probably right.
I saw the episode with Shaye pretransition and i'm so glad you have them both back!
I believe Jesus Christ would like to be left out of every “church” claiming to represent Him and “Biblical Truth”. Mathew 7:23 (KJV)
Edited for spelling
I love these two. They've just been so open.