Single axle rolling nut trigger system - medieval crossbow
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- Опубліковано 3 сер 2017
- This video outlines the standard medieval crossbow trigger system used from Roman times to approximately 1500. The system is simple and easy to understand and this shows how it works.
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I made this system in my cross bow with aluminum parts and it was soooo satisfying to have it work correctly the second time I tuned it up a bit with a file.
It would be very pleasant to see a video on how to make crossbow strings and all about why certain materials work and others don't.
For real
Thank you for this briliant video. I always wondered exactly how it worked and all the words in the world aren't as good as your demonstration mockup. Great info on the finer points of construction and operation. Thanks again!
It's very interesting to me how the terminology around firearms and crossbows overlap. Great video, keep up the great work. ^.^
An excellent video which has helped me understand this system. Many thanks.
Great video! I've always wanted to have a closer look at this type of system, since I'm planning on giving a shot at making crossbows eventually - not a historically accurate one at first, I'm more inclined into doing some mad max-ish post apocaliptic contraption for some backyard shooting, but this is still very useful knowledge.
Thank you I am make a 15th century crossbow for the first time and your videos help quite a lot. Please keep up the good work. I'm a big fan.
Exactly what I was looking for. Thank you !
I was just gonna ask to talk more about triggers! Thanks!
Fantastic video! Thank you for the insights!
I see 2 axles altogether in the system, but it is simple and efficient
outstanding vid.. i love the cutaway view of the mechanism. thank you
Could I make the trigger without using heat?
@@briananuvattanachai6646 You could, it just wouldn't be pretty or that easy.
Highly educational indeed. Cheers man !
Thank you for the in-depth explanation about this!
Glad it was helpful!
Thanks for explaining that.
Very informative, thank you!
Ευχαριστουμε που μιραζεσε μαζί μας τις γνώσεις σου! 🇬🇷🇨🇾
The trigger is pretty clearly a product of blacksmithing techniques, but the nut seems like an impressive piece of machining for an era when it had to be done by hand with files.
It helps that the nut doesn't really have to be even. As long as all the contact points are in the right place then it'll work perfectly.
I think we have all forgotten that a highly skilled blacksmith could do with a hammer and fire just about anything that a machine could do.
John Nepovietz to an extent
They actually mass produced them in bronze in China, one of the first interchangeable parts. Ofc you cast bronze so its a bit different but i don't think they where especially hard to make in iron, i doubt they did much filing either since you can forge it into the basic shape. It doesn't exactly need to be high precision.
Fascinating, Thanks
Thanks for sharing! 👍🙂
One small improvement that is likely to have existed quite early on in the development of this design would be to enlarge the nut slightly to allow for a stop that prevents the nut from spinning excessively by impacting the sear in its downward position. This would also allow for a self resetting system due to how the sea is under constant spring tension. What is most surprising with this design is that it clearly incorporates a finger trigger as we're used to seeing them on firearms but still persists with a lever grip extension. For the purposes of releasing a high poundage crossbow, this makes sense since it can be difficult to drop the sear if the nut is keeping a lot of pressure on it, but on lighter target crossbows I think a fitted pistol grip would be more appropriate, just as we see on more modern crossbow designs. Crossbows are an excellent microcosm of missed opportunities a divergent evolutionary paths.
Ahaaaa. So thats how it works. I need to read more before i get started.
Awesome demonstration! In your opinion as a craftsman, is the rolling nut inherently superior to the ancient trigger mechanism (used in the gastraphetes/oxybeles/many of the roman ballistae) which was simpler to make?
What's the comparison with the even simpler trigger mechanism of the Skane lockbow?
Not sure if you'll see this since this is an older video, but I was just wondering if you machine your own roller nuts and trigger systems? I was looking into building a crossbow a few years ago and stopped when I got to planning out the trigger system since I was unsure how to create the roller nut out of metal, but antler might be the material for me since it would be easier to work with and it would just be a target bow I would be building. Anyway, big fan of your content for years now and I appreciate all of the content you put out, most of what I know about crossbows I picked up from here. Keep up the great work man!!!
thank you !
Simplicity is the best weapon. ;)
Very simple but effective trigger machanism
0:54 "So I'll just load that with my thumb, now." How many pounds of draw weight is that? :-D
Great video Tod. How long would you say it takes to manufacture a steel nut versus a nut from bone? I'm finishing up an aluminum alloy but for a lightweight build and I can already imagine a synthetic material with a reinforcement with the sear would be much quicker. I'm using a band saw to rough cut, a drill press, and a belt and Ali for sander for finishing.
In firearms that is referred to as positive or negative sear engagement.
When you're talking about the trigger action not rotating the nut either way, does it require the front of the trigger sear bar to be an arc segment of a circle concentric with the trigger axle pin, or would a straight line mimicking that angle be sufficient?
Thankyou.
very good
Th ank you 👍👍frome Iraq 🌹
Hello Tod, very well explained on hard and light triggers, thanks, could you also share the drawings to demonstrate the contact angle to make an optimum trigger mechanism
Отличная система! Полезный канал! Лайк, подписка, уважение!
hi .do you hardened the nut and trigger tip. and if the bow I'm making is 175lbs is hardening necessary.could i use bronze for the nut and trigger
it's just i do like things made from brass and bronze
The people of the Iberian peninsula also liked their crossbows, did they make fancier models like the German and Central European people or did they go with the plainer variants.
I'm also curious if the spring was always made of steel or did they use brass or other copper alloys too?
I have another unrelated question; what kind of initial kinetic energy would one be able to achieve with a heavy windlass crossbow and a heavyweight bolt of around 125 grams and how would it compare to 140+ lbs. longbows firing heavy arrows
What takes the most force in a trigger system like this, the axle of the nut or the axle of the axle of the trigger?
I am making a crossbow myself and the axle of the nut goes through a metal plate on the outside of the stock but the trigger isnt.
Now while thinking about it doesnt all the force get transferred to the trigger in the end? 🤔Should i make a bigger metal plate where the axle of the trigger also runs through?
Again really nice video and craftsmanship the only thing which interest me is how powerfull bow can use a antler nut, because I know how strong diferent kinds of steel can be but I don't know nothing about antlers and I'm pretty sure they are weaker.
It's fairly easy to add steel side plates to an antler nut, which give you pretty much the same strength and still most of the weight savings.
Ra muito bom esse Arc flex
Is this mechanism available for sale please to allow home construction?
Where is it possible to buy these triger mechanisms ??
Was this system common enough in the 11th century such as at the battle of Hastings or in the first crusade? If so could anyone point me to references or art? As apposed to the push pin or other similar locks. Also what would the lowest draw weight for an 11th century war bow be?
I think it can be improved by simply adding a bearing so rotation is even better because the resistance will be less and it wouldn't even cost that much.
whoa, this is cool. is this how they designed it back in the days?
Yes, this was the best design in the olden days. Way back in mideivel times
how much power can creat buy a handmade crossbow?
can I build a nut with boxwood or will it break? Ive build one with reinforcements of horn on the trigger plate and the string plates of the nut. also on the rotatin axe Ive got a steel tube in the nut where the axe ist stuck through. the bow has 150lbs in expansion on the crossbow and Im not shure if the nut wont break. thnx for answer tod!
Well, it really depends on how much oressure is on the nut
how did they forge these mechanisms
My very own Mr. wizard
I don't know much about triggers on crossbows or the mechanics of even firearms triggers. I do know firearm triggers are often very different and come in many different modes with differing numbers of "stages" etc. Do the more complicated crossbow triggers have a different amount of slack/take-up, different poundages, easier or harder breaks, more or less slap, etc? Basically, wobbling the thing while pressing the trigger is where most inaccuracy comes in, so maybe the more complicated triggers were designed to help with marskmanship? Hunting could be at small animals or small parts of any sized animal, and they might be far away and trying to flee, and not wasting or spoiling the meat is an important part of hunting. Humans in war would more often be close and coming to get you, and any part of the enemy hit will do you good.
Just a thought and a question, I've never fired a crossbow so I don't know if the trigger/tickler is much different on any of them.
@@tods_workshop Awesome! Thanks for the info. Glad to hear the complicated trigger mechanisms are more than just showing off, and actually have a practical purpose. I've only shot a couple Modern crossbows a couple times, and they had triggers like guns.
Any particular reason for the axle the trigger rotates around being slightly above the 90 degree angle?
@@tods_workshop I wondered that too I think he's asking if there is a mechanical advantage to the sear being off axis on the trigger pivot.
Could you use an aluminium nut rather than steel, but with a steel sia bar/trigger ? Would the aluminium wear out too quickly ? (asking because I have some aluminium bar of about the right diameter, and steel to forge a trigger/sia from).
For low poundage bows it would probably be fine
@@tods_workshop Excellent. Having made your Dark Ages crossbow, with a very weak bow (20-25lb), and had a heap of fun with it, I think I'll try something a bit stronger and more complex. Going with a single axle nut trigger on this one.
I have a question. When the nut is released, how does the nut rotate back to its original form so that it can be pushed back by the string when reloading again?
My understanding is that the nut is reset by hand as part of the process of reloading
Is the slot where the butt of the bolt goes in between the fingers of the nut the same dept as the bolt groove?
@@tods_workshop would you ever do a video on how to build a crossbow with a roller nut mechanism?
Where could I purchase one of these contraptions?
Todsworkshop
Make one
Wouldn't antler knot wear out quickly?
Yes, crossbows required very constant matinence back then
Do you think a nut made from a hardwood would work? Of course, the trigger bar would have than from wood too, otherwise it would wear the wooden nut out in no time.
How low weights are we talking. If i were to make a bow to shoot red tips at people in a reenactment setting, I would need a very light crossbow. Regular bows in that setting have an effective range of 10-20m and a draw weight of 20 or 30 pounds, and I'd be happy with somewhat similar. performance. Obvously being aware of the draw of a crossbow and a regular bow is not immediately compearable.
@@Taeerom What kind of wood are we talking about? I think a piece of hardwood would work if you made a crossbow that you can draw yourself without any tools. But if we are talking about using natural materials why not use bone?
If you put steel plates on both sides it would be comparable to an iron nut wood won't work because of its grain structure if the nut gets pulled in the direction of the grain it will immediately break which is why you need steel on either side or to just make it out of steel
yeah.. never good to have heavy nuts..
you could drill some holes in it to make it lighter
Anyone got any idea where to buy bone/antler for a nut ?
Poppy Warner I know this 2 years ago but I’m about to make a crossbow with a rotating nut trigger and I’m going to use delrin. This an engineering plastic which comes in round bar so you can just buy the diameter you need, eg 25mm, 30mm and it’s already the right basic shape. If you buy it in its non dyed colour it’s a dirty white which looks vaguely bone like. As long as the draw weight isn’t silly it should be strong enough but I’ll reinforce the sear contact area with a steel plate.
You say "simple" but when I see those angles on that piece of metal, I wonder how accurate you have to be in terms of getting those curves and angles just right? That might as well be magic to me! It may be simple for you, but for me and for most medieval people it is high tech!
Manfred Connor, this is extreme simple. As is shown on a piece of wood, create and assemble this mechanism. You may struggle some and fail a time or two but it is simple. Puzzle it through, use the tools you have. I once used a drill and a wood chisel to re build a ramrod fo a muzzle loading rifle.
Things may not be pretty the first time but persistence and effort may prevail.
There are other videos available, search them and gain insight and ideas. You might perfect your own concept.
@@donlute3444 I do not have a workshop.
@@manfredconnor3194 ah! That makes a difference. I used a tent for several years. But rentals may prohibit that. The back bedroom. But family and wife may prohibit that. Your in a tough spot. Hunting, fishing and bushcraft. Go get'em Manfred.
Une expliquation en français merci
One of my hunting buddies had his thumb on the rail of a 180 lb modern xbow. It tOok the top of his thumb skin off along with his thumbnail. You could see his bone sticking out all nice and pretty like.
Sounds gruesome
"nut trigger" teehee
how about a smooth but fast release of the nut?
M,bom
Wrong thumbnail?
would be a good video if went into detail like how does the spring stay in place and the long trigger piece is that welded or bent into shape and what type of metal is it alloy or stainless sorry but useless video no measurements of but or rest of trigger
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Вариант..
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Too much talking in one side.. But that trigger useless, it spining without timming and not return at same place..