@@fabulouswomeninhistory Aren't all ages/eras twisted? Mankind is not kind! Those British royals, nobles and aristocrats were "twisted" even before the Victorian age and Edwardian era. So were the French, Austrians, Germans! ^_^ Also, some Russians during various eras (Depending upon how pious the Tsar was at the time)
I do think that Oscar in the HBO Gilded Age miniseries was modeled, in part, after Harry Lehr. I fear that the character of Gladys Russell may become his prey and suffer a similar fate to that of Bessie Lehr.
It does make for a good story line. I bet Bertha wins out and Gladys becomes a dollar princess. Keeps us hoping for more TGAS! Thanks for your thoughts.
She was very pretty. Not an airhead though. Girls were raised quite different during those times marriage was so central and especially in the social elite. It seems cruel to us but their views were stricter. You were to carry yourself in a "higher than thou" type attitude. Growing up I learned some of that was still around. Today we see the people with money looking on the working man and women as lower,even deplorable. Looking down your noses at fellow humans is truly the wrong way. They are the ones that will answer in the long run. Their lives were not without trials and struggles they just handled it different,clearly.
If Elizabeth was married twice in St. Patrick's it would seem she was a Catholic. Although Divorce was legal in the US at that time the Catholic Church did not permit divorce it did allow annulments. If Elizabeth divorced she would have been excommunicated by the Catholic Church. Thank you so much for your very thorough and diligent research.
But as far as the Cathic Church, she would have been granted an annulment. And legally she might have gotten a state annulment had she left that first night. I would have annulled him immedietly.
@@Anonom2012 I didn't think the Drexels were. The family was very upset when Katherine Drexel converted to Catholicism as per the religion of her stepmother and actually became a nun and started a Convent. I remember learning that the family was very upset about that
Why didn’t she divorce him right after the wedding night??! And how the hell and why the hell would you stay married to a man who only married you for your money??! Stupid, ridiculous woman! Why would you waste your life??! 😂🤣
It makes sense that she would have befriended Consuelo Vanderbilt, who hopefully and likely was empathetic and supportive. When Consuelo was unhappily married to the Duke of Marlborough, she was also subjected to constant verbal abuse, and very often in the company of others. The recurring insults and hostile behavior that so many of these poor wives endured naturally had a profound impact on their health and well being and it took a lot of fortitude to persevere in the face of such abject behavior.
Fascinating. I'm afraid that might've been a 'Snapped' episode for me. What a horrible man. I hate that she wasted so much of her life on him. Didn't they have arsenic back then? Jeez, I promise I'm not a terrible person lol. Great job on this!
It isn't always fair to judge an individuals choices, especially more than 150 years ago. Her life was full and at least she had a brief, but happy marriage and one surviving son. I still feel she should of had more regardless of Queen Victoria's beliefs. This is definitely a time when social norms and parental desires were the possible standard especially by women. I have to admit I would have definitely done something to get even in someway!!
Although we with our modern sensibilities would have left the next morning, it was a different time. Besides the fear of her mother cutting her off if she filed for a divorce, she probably didn't understand why her husband couldn't love her. It wasn't until after Harry's death, and she found and read his diary did she understand that her husband was a homosexual. She had been so sheltered she probably really wasn't fully aware what a homosexual was. She did get social prestige out of their marriage.
I couldn’t help but notice the beautiful sketches you used. Most look to be Gibson Girls. I thought saw Christie Girl or American Girl by HC Christy in the mix. I have loved the Christy and Gibson Girls sketches ever since we inherited an original, one of kind, HC Christy portrait from my husband grandmother. It was the event poster for the Philadelphia Circus Ball in 1932 (late in his career). I think they bid and won it at event. I hangs in or bedroom now and I get to enjoy it every day.
Gibson girls are so iconic to the era. You might enjoy an earlier video on this channel of colorized images of these beautiful women from the Edwardian era. ua-cam.com/video/puM-1LVe3dE/v-deo.html . Thanks for joining the conversation!
Thanks! If your interested in seeing a 1 of a kind Christy worth $45000, I would be glad to send you a pick, I just love it and it was the one piece we took from the estate due to its high value. My hubs ancestors were Mayflower Society, Founding Fathers (Thomas McKean and Gov Morris and most founding Philly families. They had so many interesting connections that my hubs couldn’t care less about but I’m fascinated with.
I don't think I would have done well in that time. idk, I guess if that was the only life I knew, maybe. But I wouldn't have been happy! And thanks for the link to the book.
Has anyone ever figured out who Elizabeth was in love with during her marriage to Harry? The mysterious Mr X died shortly after her mother, and was famous, at least in his day. I tried looking at well known individuals who died within 12 months after her mother's death, but no name stands out. They have figured out who Harry's secret boyfriend was.
I have done a considerable amount of research on this and I have narrowed Mr X down to three men who died in the months after her mother passed away. She left a surprising number of clues in her book. I'm not revealing who these three men are just yet because of a book I am writing about Newport. I am convinced that her story of Mr. X is true, although she may have altered a few details in order to "throw the hounds of the scent."
@@titanicbill9440 Fascinating. Hope I'm still alive when your book comes out. I haven't done extensive research, just a little with my friend, Mr Google. I too, thought she might have thrown in a few red herrings. I'm thinking he may have been married as well, hence her keeping his identity a secret even years after his death.
There is a man who has a channel called They got away with murders. Most of these murders he researched are from the late 19th to the mid 1950's. So, many died from poisoning.
I feel that if she would have gotten an annulment based on fraud....an annulment is different than a divorce and bringing out he was gay would give her another sympathy, as the society were so anti gay. she just didn't have the real pride to leave. she did what was easiest like most of us so and then found reasons to stay.
Oscar Van Rhign fits the description and maybe even Mrs Astor's friend Ward Mccallister....he wife is never seen, he loves money and he's always in the company of socialites
I'm sorry if this is a stupid question, but back then wasn't a thing for gay men to marry rich women who preferred to keep people outside their bedroom and being married only for the show? Why did HL ruin the life of a young and naive woman who wanted to be loved by him?
Edith Wharton was also part of the gilded age socialite set so Elizabeth wasn't the only Wharton. Her father's business, ie the Drexel bank, meant that they lived in NYC in the winters. Elizabeth talks about this ii her book. Thanks for joining the conversation!
she was rich and had options just live separate lives and be my little actor husband. he was her paid public clown from other comments. Seems she was getting what she desired from other relationships outside of scam marriage.
There is the John Vinton Dahlgren memorial Library at the Georgetown University Medical Dental School. Was it named for Elizabeth’s first husband or for their son John Vinton Dahlgren II?
@@lauravalentine9488 do you know why the son made the donation for the library? Georgetown doesn’t seem to have much info on their website about the sons donation?
@@williammacdonnell6965 it was named for the son that died as an infant. Elizabeth made the donation. Here's a link to the Wikipedia entry for Elizabeth
The medical dental school library is called the John Vinton Dahlgren library so it’s named for the some who lived and went to georgetown Joseph Drexel Dahlgren (1890-1891), who died as an infant John Vinton Dahlgren Jr. (1892-1964), who married Helen Broderick in 1946,[7][8] was a graduate of Harvard and Georgetown.[9]
@@williammacdonnell6965 Sorry, I got confused. The chapel was named for the son that died young. Elizabeth made the donation during her first marriage. I believe that her first husband and son are buried there as well as herself. The medical library was dedicated in 1971 (according to Wikipedia) and was named for Elizabeth's first husband.
When I saw 'Wharton Drexel' I immediately knew she was from Pennsylvania. I wonder if her family is the Wharton of the Business school & Drexel of the University which would also make her related to Saint Katherine Drexel who founded Xavier University of Louisiana.
Was it or was it pronounce that way because of the reference to Shakespeare's play? Not sure so I went with the less referential pronunciation. Thanks though and Thanks for joining the conversation!
@@fabulouswomeninhistory When the Astor estate, Beechwood, was open as "Mrs. Astor's Beechwood" and offered a tour with actors who played Mrs. Astor's staff and guests, all of the players pronounced it in Shakespeare's "King Lear."
Very interesting. Someone should do an alternate store line - "The Twisted Age". Too many secrets.
Love the title and the idea! Thanks for your thoughts.
@@fabulouswomeninhistory
Aren't all ages/eras twisted?
Mankind is not kind! Those
British royals, nobles and
aristocrats were "twisted"
even before the Victorian
age and Edwardian era.
So were the French, Austrians,
Germans! ^_^ Also, some
Russians during various eras
(Depending upon how pious
the Tsar was at the time)
I feel for her. Every person deserves love. It's sad she didn't have the courage to leave that husband.
She saw what happened to Alva Vanderbilt. And, her family (mother) may have disowned her for divorcing Lehr.
She only stayed with him because of her mother who would not tolerate a divorce. Such a heartbreaking life.
The house of Worth had to have had hundreds of seamstresses to cater to these dozens of wealthy women. Each dress was a work of art.
Good info. Thanks for joining the conversation!
Ture😊
Divorce was not necessary. She could have gotten an annulment. The marriage was entered into by him under false pretenses and was never consummated.
He sounds like a combo of oliver & mr rakes
He does doesn't he. Thanks for your thoughts.
One of the most interesting American history channels on UA-cam. Thank you.
Glad you think so!
I do think that Oscar in the HBO Gilded Age miniseries was modeled, in part, after Harry Lehr. I fear that the character of Gladys Russell may become his prey and suffer a similar fate to that of Bessie Lehr.
It does make for a good story line. I bet Bertha wins out and Gladys becomes a dollar princess. Keeps us hoping for more TGAS! Thanks for your thoughts.
Thank You for your videos I enjoy the informative content of the lives and times of the people in high society in the era of the gilded age.
Thanks for watching!
She was very pretty. Not an airhead though. Girls were raised quite different during those times marriage was so central and especially in the social elite. It seems cruel to us but their views were stricter. You were to carry yourself in a "higher than thou" type attitude. Growing up I learned some of that was still around. Today we see the people with money looking on the working man and women as lower,even deplorable. Looking down your noses at fellow humans is truly the wrong way. They are the ones that will answer in the long run. Their lives were not without trials and struggles they just handled it different,clearly.
That is a very well thought out response and one that I totally align with. Thank you do much!
Thank you. I like your very nicely spoken delivery. You studied your subject well.
Lehr the leach!
Such a sad story that he married her for money. 🙄
Thanks for joining the conversation!
If you have time look into the life of Allene Tew and American woman who through turmential life events became a princess.
I will look into it. Thanks so much!
If Elizabeth was married twice in St. Patrick's it would seem she was a Catholic. Although Divorce was legal in the US at that time the Catholic Church did not permit divorce it did allow annulments. If Elizabeth divorced she would have been excommunicated by the Catholic Church. Thank you so much for your very thorough and diligent research.
If the marriage was never consumated, she would have received an annulment as per RC guidelines.
But as far as the Cathic Church, she would have been granted an annulment.
And legally she might have gotten a state annulment had she left that first night.
I would have annulled him immedietly.
@@lindagarrido4353 I realize that which is why I don't understand why she didn't go for the annulment.
The Drexels and Whartons were not Catholic; she would not have been one by birth.
@@Anonom2012 I didn't think the Drexels were. The family was very upset when Katherine Drexel converted to Catholicism as per the religion of her stepmother and actually became a nun and started a Convent. I remember learning that the family was very upset about that
Why didn’t she divorce him right after the wedding night??! And how the hell and why the hell would you stay married to a man who only married you for your money??! Stupid, ridiculous woman! Why would you waste your life??! 😂🤣
How stupid of YOU to apply modern standards to a woman living 100 plus years ago 😂 clown.
So she sacrificed 28 years of independence and freedom for pride and her mom. Sad trade.
Too bad she did annul her second marriage 😢
I love her writing.
She is a very good writer. Thanks for your thoughts.
Wrong person, this is NOT Edith Wharton, it ELIZABETH 😂
Hello friends 👋
Thanks for visiting
Does she have any relation to Edith Wharton?
Edith wouldn’t have been directly related to her but it’s highly probable that her ex husband Teddy Wharton was.
@@serenawilliams6138 thanks!
Err......."her father died when she was very young?" According to the information you've tossed on the screen, he died when she was an adult of 20.
His death still affected her greatly and BTW 20 IS young,! LOL Thanks for your thoughts!
@@fabulouswomeninhistory You're welcome!
cannot stand.
It makes sense that she would have befriended Consuelo Vanderbilt, who hopefully and likely was empathetic and supportive. When Consuelo was unhappily married to the Duke of Marlborough, she was also subjected to constant verbal abuse, and very often in the company of others. The recurring insults and hostile behavior that so many of these poor wives endured naturally had a profound impact on their health and well being and it took a lot of fortitude to persevere in the face of such abject behavior.
Thanks for your thoughts.
Fascinating. I'm afraid that might've been a 'Snapped' episode for me. What a horrible man. I hate that she wasted so much of her life on him. Didn't they have arsenic back then? Jeez, I promise I'm not a terrible person lol. Great job on this!
Thanks for the encouragement and I don't think you are terrible for your thoughts.
This is the same Drexel family that produced the American Saint Katharine Drexel.
Is it? Awesome! Thanks for joining the conversation!
It isn't always fair to judge an individuals choices, especially more than 150 years ago. Her life was full and at least she had a brief, but happy marriage and one surviving son. I still feel she should of had more regardless of Queen Victoria's beliefs. This is definitely a time when social norms and parental desires were the possible standard especially by women. I have to admit I would have definitely done something to get even in someway!!
I like the way you think! Thanks for joining the conversation!
Although we with our modern sensibilities would have left the next morning, it was a different time. Besides the fear of her mother cutting her off if she filed for a divorce, she probably didn't understand why her husband couldn't love her. It wasn't until after Harry's death, and she found and read his diary did she understand that her husband was a homosexual. She had been so sheltered she probably really wasn't fully aware what a homosexual was. She did get social prestige out of their marriage.
Just have to say, after ALL of these years...not a lot has changed. Sad, very sad.
Psychology ie mommy issues trump society norms...in that way,yes, not much change in our human evolution! Thanks for joining the conversation!
If Harry managed to reincarnate to this lifetime he's in for a surprise. Women now will not take it sitting down.
So right! Thanks for your thoughts.
This practice is still quite common in the black church....gay men prey on naive church girls then marry them to conceal their homosexuality.
Jackie Kennedy Onnasis also had direct connections to the Drexel family through the Bouvier branch.
I couldn’t help but notice the beautiful sketches you used. Most look to be Gibson Girls. I thought saw Christie Girl or American Girl by HC Christy in the mix. I have loved the Christy and Gibson Girls sketches ever since we inherited an original, one of kind, HC Christy portrait from my husband grandmother. It was the event poster for the Philadelphia Circus Ball in 1932 (late in his career). I think they bid and won it at event. I hangs in or bedroom now and I get to enjoy it every day.
Gibson girls are so iconic to the era. You might enjoy an earlier video on this channel of colorized images of these beautiful women from the Edwardian era. ua-cam.com/video/puM-1LVe3dE/v-deo.html . Thanks for joining the conversation!
Thanks! If your interested in seeing a 1 of a kind Christy worth $45000, I would be glad to send you a pick,
I just love it and it was the one piece we took from the estate due to its high value. My hubs ancestors were Mayflower Society, Founding Fathers (Thomas McKean and Gov Morris and most founding Philly families. They had so many interesting connections that my hubs couldn’t care less about but I’m fascinated with.
I don't think I would have done well in that time. idk, I guess if that was the only life I knew, maybe. But I wouldn't have been happy! And thanks for the link to the book.
Your welcome. I thoroughly enjoyed reading the book and Thanks for joining the conversation!
THE GILDED AGE SEASON 2 IS HERE !!! New Plot Lines With Even More Drama Ahead! Teaser/Trailer ► ua-cam.com/video/jix7QY-iMIE/v-deo.html
⁸⁸
Thank you for these great videos!!
Instead of Oscar, could Lehr be the inspiration for Tom Raikes?
Seems unlikely since Raikes is so straight and why go after Marion is he wanted money? But, hey, thanks for your thoughts.
Has anyone ever figured out who Elizabeth was in love with during her marriage to Harry? The mysterious Mr X died shortly after her mother, and was famous, at least in his day. I tried looking at well known individuals who died within 12 months after her mother's death, but no name stands out. They have figured out who Harry's secret boyfriend was.
I have done a considerable amount of research on this and I have narrowed Mr X down to three men who died in the months after her mother passed away. She left a surprising number of clues in her book. I'm not revealing who these three men are just yet because of a book I am writing about Newport. I am convinced that her story of Mr. X is true, although she may have altered a few details in order to "throw the hounds of the scent."
@@titanicbill9440 Fascinating. Hope I'm still alive when your book comes out. I haven't done extensive research, just a little with my friend, Mr Google. I too, thought she might have thrown in a few red herrings. I'm thinking he may have been married as well, hence her keeping his identity a secret even years after his death.
I haven't done the work that you and Titantic Bill have so you are ahead of me. I do wonder who it was though. Thanks for joining the conversation!
Excellent. Looking forward to your book!
Poison was an option as well
I know really....Thanks for joining the conversation!
@@fabulouswomeninhistory There were a lot of arsenic deaths back then.
There is a man who has a channel called They got away with murders. Most of these murders he researched are from the late 19th to the mid 1950's. So, many died from poisoning.
I don't want to wait until 2023 for season 2 😥
Many of us feel the same! Thanks for your thoughts.
I feel that if she would have gotten an annulment based on fraud....an annulment is different than a divorce and bringing out he was gay would give her another sympathy, as the society were so anti gay. she just didn't have the real pride to leave. she did what was easiest like most of us so and then found reasons to stay.
Very interesting! Do you reckon Tom Raikes’s character is inspired by Henry Lehr?
No, not at all. He is def stragtht. Thanks for joining the conversation!
I just posted the same thing
Oscar Van Rhign fits the description and maybe even Mrs Astor's friend
Ward Mccallister....he wife is never seen, he loves money and he's always in the company of socialites
@@samlewis6615 Mrs. M. Was in Newport with him. But yes, he is often on his own. In real life his wife was called a “shut in”
I'm sorry if this is a stupid question, but back then wasn't a thing for gay men to marry rich women who preferred to keep people outside their bedroom and being married only for the show? Why did HL ruin the life of a young and naive woman who wanted to be loved by him?
I guess he wasn't very nice.
The real question is, what is a Drexel and a Wharton doing in NYC?
Edith Wharton was also part of the gilded age socialite set so Elizabeth wasn't the only Wharton. Her father's business, ie the Drexel bank, meant that they lived in NYC in the winters. Elizabeth talks about this ii her book. Thanks for joining the conversation!
Who is the Black woman you have pictured in the lower right corner of your banner?
She is Ada Overton Walker. I feature her in this video: ua-cam.com/video/puM-1LVe3dE/v-deo.html
not a word about her brilliant talent and writings. she was a master of the Victorian ghost story. very sad oversight.
Thanks for your thoughts. It was so much an oversight as pressed for time (plus never have read her ghost stories).
@@fabulouswomeninhistory My sincere apologies to you and community, I mistakenly confused EDITH Warton for Elizabeth. 🙄
Why didn’t she divorce him?
That's the big question.
she was rich and had options just live separate lives and be my little actor husband. he was her paid public clown from other comments. Seems she was getting what she desired from other relationships outside of scam marriage.
There is the John Vinton Dahlgren memorial Library at the Georgetown University Medical Dental School. Was it named for Elizabeth’s first husband or for their son John Vinton Dahlgren II?
The son
@@lauravalentine9488 do you know why the son made the donation for the library? Georgetown doesn’t seem to have much info on their website about the sons donation?
@@williammacdonnell6965 it was named for the son that died as an infant. Elizabeth made the donation. Here's a link to the Wikipedia entry for Elizabeth
The medical dental school library is called the John Vinton Dahlgren library so it’s named for the some who lived and went to georgetown
Joseph Drexel Dahlgren (1890-1891), who died as an infant
John Vinton Dahlgren Jr. (1892-1964), who married Helen Broderick in 1946,[7][8] was a graduate of Harvard and Georgetown.[9]
@@williammacdonnell6965 Sorry, I got confused. The chapel was named for the son that died young. Elizabeth made the donation during her first marriage. I believe that her first husband and son are buried there as well as herself.
The medical library was dedicated in 1971 (according to Wikipedia) and was named for Elizabeth's first husband.
Wow!! False advertisement with him 😬
When I saw 'Wharton Drexel' I immediately knew she was from Pennsylvania. I wonder if her family is the Wharton of the Business school & Drexel of the University which would also make her related to Saint Katherine Drexel who founded Xavier University of Louisiana.
Thanks for your thoughts.
Wharton is not a separate institution. It's part of the Univ. of PA.
@@yvonneplant9434 I know that. I'm wondering if this is the family it's named after.
@@cor3na Yes, there is a direct family connection.
Yes
It's pronounced "Lee - er." Like Shakespeare's play!
Was it or was it pronounce that way because of the reference to Shakespeare's play? Not sure so I went with the less referential pronunciation. Thanks though and Thanks for joining the conversation!
@@fabulouswomeninhistory When the Astor estate, Beechwood, was open as "Mrs. Astor's Beechwood" and offered a tour with actors who played Mrs. Astor's staff and guests, all of the players pronounced it in Shakespeare's "King Lear."
Married a no body gay man
Thanks for joining the conversation!
What a dope
Thanks for joining the conversation!
Harry was a Jiggalo lol