Yamaha Upright Piano Hammer Spring Problem
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- Опубліковано 19 сер 2024
- How to correct bobbling & double-striking hammers in Yamaha upright pianos. The issue with hammer butt flange springs is prominent in most 20 year old and older Yamaha pianos.
Whenever I change a set of flanges on one of these old Yamaha uprights I always space all of the hammers first with the old flanges and then replace every other hammer with the new flange placing it back exactly the way it was between the adjacent hammers. In other words do 44 flanges and then go back and do the other 44. This will automatically assure that after the whole set is replaced the hammers will automatically be spaced.
thanks, good tip! 🙂
Oh wow. So we picked up a 1969 Yamaha P2 with no bridge damage, stable tuners, and good sound board needing some cosmetic TLC. It is a project. I noticed some hammers paused at the top rather than returning quickly. Exploring, I found all these brown broken strings bits, and metal springs attached to nothing. I was wracking my brain to figure out the point of springs attached to nothing! Your video solved the mystery. Every single butt flange string is broken. They disintegrate to the touch. Rather than replacing all the butt flanges, can I not somehow replace the strings with a bit of nylon string, then re-seat the springs? The project just got more complicated!
Tuner technician here, 32 years, still at it. Have had to do this many a time, just did a whole set on a school piano couple months ago.
Thanks for sharing! Schaff calls that tool a flange bushing broach. You can get them in a kit with different sizes.
Thanks for this video! I'm learning how to fix my own instrument thanks to this.
Yes, it is always a good idea to pay a tech to come out and inspect your purchase! I have saved many a customer by flushing out a serious problem before they purchased (including piano stores - one of which had a Yam. with many broken flange strings; the sales rep said they would not fix them. A good fast test for non techies is to hold down the sustain pedal and use your arm to push down many keys at once while watching the hammers. Quickly release the keys noting if all the hammers return quickly, as designed. Sluggish hammers are ones that are suspect!
Great video! Learned a lot and you explain it really well.
Very comprehensive video, I learned much from this. Thank You! Was 1981 the last year for the cotton style Butt Flange String Loops vs the new Nylon style Butt Flange String Loop design? We have a 1976 U1D and some of these Hammer Butt Springs have the broken cords. So thanks to your video, I am up to the task of replacing the full 88.
Very technical skill… your a great teacher. Merits my subscription. Thanks
That was a great explanation and video.
Should I ask the company trying to sell me the 1989 Yamaha when the piano’s butt flanges were last replaced with new ones when I inspect the piano myself?
I *am* planning to ask them to take the action out of the piano so I can see for myself whether or not there are any broken springs…..
Your video has me *seriously* worried now, but i *AM* glad I watched this; now I know *exactly* what to look for before committing to a big purchase.
I am a technician. Helping my customers inspect pianos, I ALWAYS check for these rotting spring string loops on older Yamahas. Most of them have not been changed out; you must pretty much disassemble the action to remove and change them. I charged $750. There was a recall on these pianos, but I know of none of my customers who were notified and subsequently had the work done. Yes! Bring a good flashlight and your glasses and look yourself. Some techs charge over $1K for the work. It is not the death of a piano, but you must factor in the extra cost of having these changed out and use that as a bargaining point.
Great video - the newer Yamaha uprights have a screw plate that fastens down on the pin. This is a lot faster than dealing with the phlange pin .
the newer Yamaha uprights,?
So do older ones. I just serviced a 1958 U3 that had screws plate attachment.
what is that tool you used to punch out the pins?
Great job, thanks a lot👏
if just the springs have snapped or are broken, why not just change the springs, like on a Charles Walter console. What kind of matched spring is needed, if the old British Langer action was installed.
I allways thought that the moment the jack disengages is the escapement and aftertouch is the slight movement you have when the key depresses the depth front cushion.
Very informative.
Where can I order parts. This is the exact problem I have several of these broken springs and white loops
Schaff piano supply has them
Thank you. You have a wonderful teaching manner. I once replaced all of the loops on a piano by removing the loop, scraping out the old glue, measuring and glueing a new piece of chord in there; a much more time-consuming process. I had no idea I could have replaced the flanges with new loops. :) I have a question about replacing hammer return springs. Usually, at least on the pianos I've looked at, the springs are on a rail. However, I need to fix a broken spring on a hammer like the one you feature in this video, in which the spring is integral to the piece, attached to the butt near the shank, rather than on a rail.
Do you have any information on this please? I'd like to see the process. Thanks again.
@pds002 It seems a good solution too. Avoid replacing the original flange. I have the same problem: may I ask what type of chord did you use (possibly the section) ? thank you! 🙂
My keys also have this problem of not returning like in this video on a light touch but it's not noticed or understood by the tuner even when I tried to explain as per your video.
Would solving this problem also help solve the "weightyness" of the keys? I have a 40+ year old Yamaha U1 that is too light on the touch. I just had my piano tuned and the tuner said there's nothing you can do, but...I don't trust him.
It can be really hard to increase touch in an upright, especially as the hammers become worn, reshaped and lose material over time. Sometimes key weighting adjustments are necessary, or I've even seen people put binder clips right below the hammer head. New, heavier hammers might be the most long term solution.
What model years of Yamaha pianos does this affect?
I HAVE JUST PUT A DOWN PAYMENT ON AN OLDER YAMAHA PIANO, AND WILL BE INSPECTING THE PIANO IN PERSON TO MAKE MY FINAL DECISION ON THE PURCHASE **THIS TUESDAY** (Nov 21).
**PLEASE** can you give us this information before then? I do **not** wish to spend thousands of dollars on a piano with hammer-spring and after-touch problems. There *are* alternatives. I originally selected the Yamaha bc of the company’s superb reputation as piano manufacturers (just beneath Steinway). The piano’s cabinet is lovely and in excellent condition, but if the action doesn’t feel PERFECT to me, there’s NO point in the purchase.
What happens when the hammer does not reset to its resting position? I looked and nothing seemed broken nor loose nor lacking any spring/parts. Just baffles the mind.
Also can the sustain pedal rod be repaired as its tip is rusted and broken off? Or does it need to be replaced completely? Where do you even get parts like that? What's the cost?
Give us a call. Yamaha parts are available.
I have a new yamaha that double strikes when playing softly, Is the same problem?
No. Your technician may need to increase the let off slightly or check for other issues like lost motion.
No. Practically all new Yamahas, Kawais, and many other vertical pianos have problems with bobbling hammers, generally in the low tenor. I've asked many fellow techs and there are lots of theories, including damper and hammer spring strength. It's a problem even on new, perfectly regulated modern pianos. For some reason, old pianos don't have the problem. I've often wondered if the size of the tip of modern jacks may be an issue: maybe they can't clear the hammer butt fast enough.
I agree. I have an ‘84 Yamaha U1 that bobbled quite badly in the tenor. I reglued in all new thread loops like in this video and it reduced the problem but it still remained to some extent. I think it’s just inherent with some uprights.
Is it possible to just replace the cord that the spring pushes against? On mine many of the cords are broken but there does not seem to be a problem with the rest of the hammer butt flange.
Replacing the loop would require excessive time and labor cost.
Not only would this take many hours but it is very difficult to glue every end of string in exactly the same lenght and position.
Yes, this is the standard repair: scrape out the old cords and glue in new ones.
I personally reglued in all the strings on my ‘84 U1 and it’s a long laborious job. If you had to pay a tech to do it it might cost more than the piano is worth.
I am a technician. I have heard other piano folk do the "quick-and-dirty" resolution this way. A couple of things... If there is one, there are others. And more will follow; as all 88 are dying! Yes, it is pricey to have it done (I charged $750 and others over $1K) but it really is the best resolution.
Берешь подходящую нитку и клеишь новые))