Yes the CIA has long record of atrocity after atrocity in regards to regime changes, and supporting dictators, killing millions of people in the porcess of maintaning the status quo, meaning the status of america as World superpower. Despite thos despicable actions of the CIA, America is somehow still regarded as the land of the free. What people need to understand is that America engages in the game of pragmatic geo politics just like every other nation, and utlilizes it's individualistic idealism is a means of propaganda to justify govermental intervetion to it's people who foolish enough to consume those lies as truth like the sheeps that are and to the Nations they have the audacity to violently invade. America only regards it's interests as relevant and if she needs to undermine the freedom of other Nations, medle in their election and replace those democratically elected leaders with authoritarian dictators it will do so: 1. foreignpolicy.com/2013/08/19/cia-admits-it-was-behind-irans-coup/ 2. www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2016/12/23/the-cia-says-russia-hacked-the-u-s-election-here-are-6-things-to-learn-from-cold-war-attempts-to-change-regimes/ 3.www.huppi.com/kangaroo/CIAtimeline.html 4.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_CIA_controversies 4. www.amnesty.org/download/Documents/60000/amr511942007eng.pdf
@@endloesung_der_braunen_frage they should’ve done that in Afghanistan right after the Soviet war it would’ve saved a lot of this stuff that is going on right now
It is, and it is almost mind-blowing how Grenier represents the CIA and explains how they designed the war. They are literally telling us these facts and we are so used to it we think its normal, it saddens me to think that we are so aware of all this backwards corruption and we are doing nothing, the government must be feeling pretty smug...
carter braun The USA realized in 1953 that by using some key Jesuit-style tactics, via the CIA, it could overthrow governments and install puppet governments. By gosh, it didn't have to fool around with messy things like world war. Google search: "CIA admits role in 1953 Iranian coup." This year, 1953, ushered in numerous similar CIA operations.... The rest is history.
Show me one place where intervention was a good idea? Pretty much the crap we are in today is a result of CIA operations starting at the bay of pigs/ Kennedy assassination. Pretty much every major manipulation of sovern leadership has ended in a more deadly outcome over time. If the USA didn't allow the CIA to attempt manipulation of most world events, I bet we would be far safer today than we are. America is excellent at creating enemies and spending war money. Very similar to the kind of things going on near the end of the Roman empire...
Hhheeemmmm..... the C.I.A. runs America. We need to turn that around. JFK wanted to bust the C.I.A. into a thousand pieces. We know what happened to him.
"The job of the CIA is to inform policy not make policy" Found this really interesting. Reminded of all the comparisons about the United States to Rome, the transition of the Praetorian Guard from a bodyguard unit to a powerful political force that could and did decide the fates of the emperors.
+Barry Smith Seriously! I feel like an attentive nod can get more out of a person sometimes than an aggressive stare. The man he's interviewing is admitting things that I don't think he would admit if he felt like he were under attack. You can draw whatever parallels you want from that haha.
Having served in Afghanistan I can say that a lot has changed on the ground. Not sitting behind a desk in Kabul or some air base in Kandahar but actually being on the ground eating,sleeping and living with Afghans.I know what it was like on the ground and some spook that works for a financial agency isn't going to change what we accomplished on the ground. I would see kids going to school flourishing bazaars and a very vibrant populace happy with change and the security forces being proud and able to conduct operations by themselves.But since this guy is in a suit and using fancy words I guess you can take his word for it...
I love how all these CIA guys refer to the various policies that have led to the current situation in the Middle East as "mistakes." They were not mistakes. The goal was and is clearly continual destabilization and inflammation of the Middle East. Without all the strife, we'd have no excuse to get all up in there. It's something the establishment doesn't acknowledge, but if you think about it for even a minute, it makes too much sense to be untrue. And in that light, clearly CIA's policies were quite successful.
I really like this journalist, he is one of the most professional that VICE has. He really knows how to ask the tough questions but in such a way that they seem very neutral to the person he is interviewing. I think it really helps to sort of let the interviewee's guard down and get them to actually share their thoughts/information.
That’s what separates us from the ruling class. You don’t live in a society with rule of law anymore it’s rule in law created by the ruling class and there’s a huge difference between the two
That's because the CIA guy got his trophy from the local population that was his allies, the reason troops don't take war trophies is because the enemy booby traps them after they found out American troops will take souvenirs.
Make no mistake, I'm far far far from a CIA apologist, and I never supported either War, but comments about this interview being propaganda are just laughable. Mr. Grenier is very straight forward in his answers and I didn't pick up on any "double speak". He has an excellent grasp on the realities of trying to foster a stable environment in an extremely volatile region and outlined the many mistakes made. That said, he's very likely on or closely in tune with the Council of Foreign Relations, Trilateral Commission, Bilderberg Group ect. So if you're well informed, you'll be able to pick up on some very keen information, directly from the "horses mouth" so to speak. If you don't realize this, then well you're stupid.
***** there is not only desert, there are mountains, there are deserts there are forest, it is a very diversified country in terms of nature, you can even have snow during winter
Key Point: 10:30 to 12:25 Grenier even says that the uprising with ISIS aka IS traces back to Bush Era Policy. Once the military campaign of dethroning Hussain, major mistakes were made that opened doors for ISIS.
Unslaved Films, the youtube channel with videos such as Psychic Vampirism lol...ya ill pass bud. I don't think my comment warranted such a harsh response. If you disagree with my statement, I would like to hear your point of view Tom.
***** I'm just paraphrasing what his Grenier said. I never said "It's Bush's Fault," Im saying that from what I read and see, political commentators like to say ISIS happens because of Obama's decision to try and end the longest conflict in American History. I personally don't believe its any one single persons fault, but a culmination of errors and jumping the gun to quickly over the past 14 years. Ultimately, this conflict shows the inability of the middle east to reestablish themselves in a from of government that will stop terrorist groups from uprising, establish democratic qualities (voting, civil rights, ect), and maintain stability in the region.
***** I think you miss the fact that Bush sign a agreement in 2008 to withdraw troop from all Iraq territory no later than 2011, and Obama was force by law of Us president to fellow that agreement. Obama fail in navigating with Maliki to allow US. troop to stay in Iraq.
You damn right It was obvios for the US and the world that the US Army wouldnt have much trouble beating Hussein, the big problem was actually the aftermath of the campaign, he said it himself it was a series of mistakes that eventually will come back in force, or should I say come back with the name of ISIS. Shame. Now those mistakes Are a global issue.
VICE News visited Grenier at his home in Virginia to talk about America’s longest war, the CIA’s use of "enhanced interrogation techniques," and the rise of the Islamic State. Watch "Ex-CIA Officer John Kiriakou: The VICE News Interview” - bit.ly/1JxQ8SW
1 million Afghans died . The war left Afghanistan with severe political, economic, and ecological problems. More than 1 million Afghans died in the war and 5 million became refugees in neighboring countries. In addition, 15,000 Soviet soldiers were killed and 37,000 wounded. Economic production was drastically curtailed, and much of the land laid waste. At the end of the war more than 5 million mines saturated approximately 2% of the country, where they will pose a threat to human and animal life well into the 21st cent. The disparate guerrilla forces that had triumphed proved unable to unite, and Afghanistan became divided into spheres of control. These political divisions set the stage for the rise of the Taliban later in the decade. Read more: Afghanistan War www.infoplease.com/encyclopedia/history/afghanistan-war.html#ixzz3Y9TV8qmP
***** not as in keep the army so it could fester. more like the fact that we kicked them out should have never happened, but since we did it festered with hate for America. (sorry for my bad wording)
16:50 - how, in the context of "enhanced intereogation", he tries to make employees who may have ethical or moral conscience concerns about such orders/acts, and inclined to say no, as "institutional insubordination." Legal (if it really is) does not mean ethical. If someone truly thinks it is a grave ethical violation, they should be allowed to opt out and do other work. It seems he wants it to run like the military chain of command. I get following lawful orders, but it's also not the military, and even lawful orders could sometimes be gravely immoral / unethical. There should be an office for ethical integrity to petition such things/ opt-out. He does seem well versed otherwise.
Never seen somebody so spot on. This guy is the real deal. Knows his shit and knows it well. I'd want him in charge of my foreign policy team in the Middle East.
Glad he's talking about it just now, when he lives in a white-picket fence house in Virginia while people step foot out of their house across the war with a fear of getting blown to pieces.
And literally all of his expert predictions turned out to be wrong, from the Iraq War to the Taliban never taking over Afghanistan again. Typical worthless spook, thinking he's the master of the world. Anyways, let's check out the dagger collection of all of these people who actually hate me...
Pashtuns are called by different names Punjabi and Hindus call us pathans, Persians call us Afghani, Americans call us Taliban and Arabs call us mujahideen. At the end of the day this war is being waged on Pashtuns, they suffered the most in this war.
He is saying the same thing that the other CIA member said, that the government never set up policy to govern the interrogation practices and then blamed them as to why they were doing it. Organizations of the government are supposed to have clear mandates from the government, but that would then leave the government responsible so that is why they never made a policy.
BombasticLove87 CIA interrogation was introduced in a field manually I believe back in the 60's which didn't conform to the UN convention of torture. This UN convention went into effect in the United States during Bill Clinton's presidency where Bill Clinton and the CIA formed new interrogation methods which were used during Bill Clinton's administration this is where "rendition" became popular. Under Bill Clintons administration the CIA was performing renditions to Egypt, Bush etc actually reformed this to improve the legality and policies..
Gillad Fide It's a shame that the USA has to act like they actually care about what the UN thinks or does. The UN is a joke and should act as an outlet for discussion and unity not as policy makers.
Checkingokop We have a system of laws and a constitution w/ a supreme court. I believe legislation passed that authorized forced sodomy by the government with a giant metal pole would be found unconstitutional, since it would be considered cruel and unusual punishment.
Checkingokop lol.. Well it is a fruitless exercise to try to fit government forced sodomy into some definition outside of cruel and unusual punishment.. Now if you want someone else to put a large metal pole and both of you are consenting adults I believe someone can assist you with that... Rape is a sex crime already defined...
"In 2009 Grenier was appointed Chairman of ERG Partners, an independent financial and strategic advisory firm solely focused on the security and intelligence sectors." Why is there a revolving door between the CIA and the finance sector?
@TheQualityrkc, I think we all know the answer to that question. But "they" believe, we are all sheep with blinders on and as dumb as a bag of dicks. Until we prove how smart we as a people are, and that we the people are Lions rather than the sheep "they" NEED us to be, we the people will continue to be blind sheep. I am a Lion, I am a Patriot. Don't tread on me.
true, but its also all he knows, unless he goes be a bus driver, teacher, waiter, or whatever else that he would consider beneath him, so he goes private and does the same job he always was doing
@@Claptonisgod33 American made basses when they weak now Occupied not leaving the bases While Afghanistan and middle East invade by west twice In world War 1 then start of 21 century with New World Order
Anyone read this book? Edit: Vice - This is one of your better reporters. Utilize him. P.S. - This guy has SO much cooler stuff to talk about then 'enhanced interrogation techniques' come on
i know haha i've heard that before from another CIA man. That must be one of their universal replies from a CIA-agent-answering-public-questions-manual.
Very engaging interview. Robert Grenier is definitely the authority on relations in the region also coupled with lessons learned in hindsight. It would be wise for the current US administration to heed his wisdom.
When you fund a terrorist group to get rid of a terrorist group that you funded to get rid of a terrorist group that you funded to get rid of a terrorist group that you funded to get...
I may not agree with Grenier on everything [particularly his position on the Iraq invasion], but it is nice to finally hear someone speaking directly, cohesively, analytically and honestly to these diverse and complex subjects. It is unusual in media to find this concise perspective, clearly presented, accurate and to relevant facts without heavy spin. Despite differences of opinion, this was music to my ears. This is what news and media SHOULD be like.
Jay Tee Congrats to Grenier on the Afghan war strategy. Epic smooth success - CIA brilliance. The epic fails after the end of the "first Afghan war" [in his words], were however beyond description in the ignorance, arrogance and folly that resulted in trillions of dollars wasted, American and Afghan lives needlessly spent, and total failure to achieve the bizarre goals and methodology chosen toward unachievable ends.
Supreme Spiritualist Look at the comment section, there are plenty of conspiracy theorists, clamining that 9/11 was an inside job, and that this guy is lying.
I had just read "Imperial Life in the Emerald City" about the 2003/2204 post war US occupation of Iraq and it's refreshing to hear the admittance of the many errors back then from a high ranking ex-CIA member. One of the biggest problems back then was that jobs where given to people loyal to the president's agenda foremost, not if they were qualified for it and that's something that seems to be even more rampant with the government right now. I also fear that Trump might eventually succeed in reshaping some intelligence agencies (whom most president's don't seem to listen to enough in the first place since they are often the bringer of bad news and complicated problems) to his liking so they are just another group of lackeys and yes-men.
holyinfantry999 If it was propaganda they wouldn't admit they made mistakes. The whole point of propaganda is to make people believe something is real when it isn't. In this video they point out that mistakes were made and that the Afghan are in a precarious situation due to these mistakes from the U.S. These are both real and true. If this was a propaganda video they would say that America did it right and everything will be ok but they do not. In conclusion: this is reporting.
You guys not paying much attention to the background of all the mess in Middle East. CIA was supposly getting info and supporting the Afghans dealing with the taliban, that's basically why the "War Plan" of this guy was used, he spent some time Close to the people and had best perspective of what was going down.
Kjetil Pedersen Because Clinton's objective for the CIA in the 1990s was to kill or capture Bin Laden. The planned military operations to capture/kill Bin Laden were never carried out, but the paramilitary operatives there did build fairly good relations with some of the tribal leaders during their pursuit of Bin Laden. Keep in mind that the US, during Clinton's presidency, were also launching cruise missiles into Afghanistan in the late 90s when our government got word that Al Qaeda was responsible for the 1998 US embassy bombings, and thus targeted the military training camps that were spread throughout afghanistan.
It's THE C.I.A NOT C.I.A! for example "I joined THE C.I.A" NOT "I joined C.I.A" It makes no sense because C. I. A stands for Central Intelligence Agency.
4:25 "Very little known... including in the intelligence community". Then how did they determine within hours of the Twin Towers that Afghanistan was at all responsible?
lol whats funny is that...according to the CIA guy....they were planning a coup in afghanistan 14 months prior to 9 - 11..but couldnt go with it cuz there was no funding. And then lol..conveniently..9-11 happens...and now they get all the funding in the world. So basically the blueprint was always there...just waiting for a pretext. Kinda shows how they wanted 9 - 11 to happen..or even executed it themselves
He also says they didn't have "presidential findings" to try and "actively" overthrow the taliban...what? So what the hell were they even doing this for? Crazy how obviously contrived the narratives of the last 16 years are looking in hindsight.
Until you read Robert’s book “88 Days to Kandahar” please refrain from biased and groundless claims on this man’s story. I am in no way stating that the Agency is exempt from malpractice but Bob certainly had a well deserved career in his years there. Intelligence is a tough business to be in, especially with its covert nature and moral contradictions. He at least seemed to be on the better side of the three letter agencies.
This gentlemen is easily the most learned, clear-thinking person I have heard from the US intelligence community. And yet he still does not get it. He still "fears" the US will be "forced" into another US-Afghan war... How can these people be reasoned with?
I will be honest the gov in Afghanistan controls little more than the land it stands on however I wouldn't say it is a american loss at all the war was never about victory it was about revenge and destroying training camps I do think afghanistan will slip back in a few years but we will see
TheSympathize They did not win simpley because they dint reach their goal, they foght this war to stabilce the region and to step down on terrorism but now they are leaving and all they have to show for is a even more unstable country which has a unsable gouvermant and is far from peace, not to mention the heavy losses and large amount of tax dollars used for this war which has achived not one single goal but rather even more encouraged terrorism. So jeah they lost
From 2001 to 2005, Afghanistan was relatively peaceful after the invasion. But when Iraq sucked up resources, Afghanistan returned to chaos. If Iraq hadn't happened, our foreign policy of the last decade and a half would have be seen as extremely successful.
It is quite remarkable how when you type "Operation Cyclone" on UA-cam, the first video that pops up is an interview with a former CIA official that talks about post 9/11 actions/policies. Funny enough that the actual root cause for terrorism in the area was laid out exactly by having armed and planted the seed of terrorism through CIAs involvement in Afghanistan in the 80ies (Operation Cyclone). Hoped to find more information about that instead of having a CIA person talk about the consequences (station troops in Afghanistan) of a consequence (9/11 terrorist attacks) of the actual cause (CIA supporting Mujahedin) that was ultimately the mistake of the CIA. I also love how the guy just randomly says that it was okay to wage war over a sovereign country (Iraq), where over 100.000 civilians died and refers to torturing as "harsh interrogation". How many times will it take the US to learn from their mistakes (just to name a few); Support and arm Mujaheddin in Afghanistan --> Actively help the spreading of terrorism Invade Iraq --> Prepare the way for the ascendence of the IS Arm the Kurds in Syria --> Destabilizing region, majorly Turkey (NATO partner) Thank you very much CIA.
It seems Mr. Grenier recently heard or read the expression "writ large" used by someone he admires or finds noteworthy. He is using the expression every time he sees an opportunity. I saw this practice often in the Marine Corps among officers and senior enlisted. The repetition of an expression they felt made them sound knowledgeable or experiences in their fields. There are so many funny quirks like this within the armed services.
There are two aspects missing: the first one is the historical subject that international capital concentrated in US needed to keep it social control: the revolutionary proletariat and, the second aspect is strictly business: the production of heroin. After the CIA secured the production, distribution and consumption of Heroin to the internacional market, capital agents in Doha agreed to a withdraw from Afghanistan.
This guy is really intelligent and I get the sense that he really knows what he is talking about. Great interview! If only our politicians during this conflict were not completely insane (Bush and Cheney). Even though I am not a big fan of CIA operations I from this interview at least got the sense that Mr. Grenier was trying to do the best he could in a bad situation.
I have great respect for him. I attended his book signing recently. He was a good friend of Pakistan and we had an excellent working relationship with him and the CIA during his time. There was great cooperation between Pakistan/ISI and the US/CIA under his leadership as station chief. Many al qaeda scum bags were nailed through joint operations.
***** His tenure in Pakistan ended around 2006....WAY after we defeated the soviets in afghanistan. I think you should watch this video again and/or refresh your knowledge as for these allegations about Pakistan's role in Afghanistan - tell me why the US is in contact with these same groups?
***** Amrullah Saleh is a warlord from northern alliance and an indian stooge. His career is destroyed and he has no effect on policy. Find more suitable/relevant role models sir
***** That's right. Saleh and the NA are nothing but indian stooges but Pakistan, the ISI and our assets in Afghanistan have done a tremendous job containing them and also destroying their careers. Saleh was head of the NDS. Now he's cowering away in some safe house spending all his days on twitter. And buddy - let me tell you something. There is no "and IF" ....there are no "Ifs"....The US govt. was the one that literally BEGGED Pakistan to facilitate the setting up of an Afghan taleban office in Doha Qatar. Pakistan's intentions were good, we wanted the Americans and this Afghan organization to have contact with eachother in the interests that we are ALL on the SAME PAGE. And yes America's goals are ever shifting. We know the US is itching to scale down and leave the problems for us to solve. We knew that in 2001, which is why we hedged our bets and had a good insurance policy in place.
The man giving the interview openly says his mistakes and calculations in his interview and says America needs a presence to both fight and make progress with countries...which is treat each war lord like a ruler of a nation in Afghanistan to make sure that "country" isn't a threat. What else do people want?
In mid-August 2013, Rupert Murdoch's corporation 21st Century Fox invested US$70 million in Vice Media, resulting in a 5 percent stake. Following the announcement, Smith explained, "We have set ourselves up to build a global platform but we have maintained control."[10][11]
Russia, Britain, the USA, France, Iran and the Saudis work together, however, all that effort plus more failed against the freedom fighters fighting the invaders and colonized regimes.
Very interesting interview and his comments are enlightening. But overall, what a waste of solders, civilians and money that has very little good to show for it all.
Robert Grenier points are spot on, these were points I thought of even as a teenager while following the sectarian violence. in Iraq. If they went in with the idea of countries led by locals, they would have been more successful. By essentially demolishing Saddam's supporters they created a new regime that was equally unfair as it was dominated by the victors. History shows us time and time again that if you completely replace the previous regime by the victors you usually end up with a second war or a revolution.
The United States efforts in Afghanistan deserve praise and support. The Taliban was oppressive and sheltered terrorists including Bin Laden. Fighting the Taliban was a noble effort. One additional way to do this is to support Pakistan in waging war against the Taliban in its territory. The United States should not leave Afghanistan until the Taliban is eliminated. . A coalition government with the Taliban is bad because then the Taliban is legitimized and can infiltrate and take over the Afghan government.
"The majority of those never saw anything, uh, you know, more coersive than what you would expect to find in a You Ess police precinct." Ah, so they were handcuffed and driven roughly about in the backs of police vans until their necks broke. Got it.
no counters? i mean come on he just laid out that our economy is a war based economy or else we would be back into the areas we were at pre 9-11. how well would our social programs be this long in if we had invested locally rather than abroad? should of let a former soldier interview him.
Correction, we have the Kurds which can be utilized as a power to stabilize the region. The only thing, I would presume, they would ask for is the same as when they fought in northern Iraq. Government and autonomy throughout Iraq and Syria.
Bradley Cooper and Sam Harris had a child and it is this Vice reporter.
True :-D
+oO0E HHAHAHA throughout I'm thinking
Zach Galifianakis
is going to pop out from soemwhere.
+oO0E How about Patrick Dempsey, that dude from Grey's Anatomy lol
+oO0E hahaha that is the best call ive heard all month!
+oO0E spot on.
"The job of CIA is to in form policy, not make policy" That was so cute...
None of us are fooled by that statement.
Inform*
Yes the CIA has long record of atrocity after atrocity in regards to regime changes, and supporting dictators, killing millions of people in the porcess of maintaning the status quo, meaning the status of america as World superpower.
Despite thos despicable actions of the CIA, America is somehow still regarded as the land of the free.
What people need to understand is that America engages in the game of pragmatic geo politics just like every other nation, and utlilizes it's individualistic idealism is a means of propaganda to justify govermental intervetion to it's people who foolish enough to consume those lies as truth like the sheeps that are and to the Nations they have the audacity to violently invade.
America only regards it's interests as relevant and if she needs to undermine the freedom of other Nations, medle in their election and replace those democratically elected leaders with authoritarian dictators it will do so:
1. foreignpolicy.com/2013/08/19/cia-admits-it-was-behind-irans-coup/
2. www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2016/12/23/the-cia-says-russia-hacked-the-u-s-election-here-are-6-things-to-learn-from-cold-war-attempts-to-change-regimes/
3.www.huppi.com/kangaroo/CIAtimeline.html
4.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_CIA_controversies
4. www.amnesty.org/download/Documents/60000/amr511942007eng.pdf
@@endloesung_der_braunen_frage they should’ve done that in Afghanistan right after the Soviet war it would’ve saved a lot of this stuff that is going on right now
It was inform 🤣
But Vietnam was also a CIA war.... all the way. This is not unusual for the U.S.A. It is the norm, completely.
It is, and it is almost mind-blowing how Grenier represents the CIA and explains how they designed the war. They are literally telling us these facts and we are so used to it we think its normal, it saddens me to think that we are so aware of all this backwards corruption and we are doing nothing, the government must be feeling pretty smug...
carter braun The USA realized in 1953 that by using some key Jesuit-style tactics, via the CIA, it could overthrow governments and install puppet governments. By gosh, it didn't have to fool around with messy things like world war. Google search: "CIA admits role in 1953 Iranian coup." This year, 1953, ushered in numerous similar CIA operations.... The rest is history.
Show me one place where intervention was a good idea? Pretty much the crap we are in today is a result of CIA operations starting at the bay of pigs/ Kennedy assassination. Pretty much every major manipulation of sovern leadership has ended in a more deadly outcome over time. If the USA didn't allow the CIA to attempt manipulation of most world events, I bet we would be far safer today than we are. America is excellent at creating enemies and spending war money. Very similar to the kind of things going on near the end of the Roman empire...
Hhheeemmmm..... the C.I.A. runs America. We need to turn that around. JFK wanted to bust the C.I.A. into a thousand pieces. We know what happened to him.
Watch out everyone, the Phoenix Program is in the USA today. We are all the enemies of the USA. Evil, corruption, prevailing covertly.
"The job of the CIA is to inform policy not make policy"
Found this really interesting. Reminded of all the comparisons about the United States to Rome, the transition of the Praetorian Guard from a bodyguard unit to a powerful political force that could and did decide the fates of the emperors.
Watch out for new post man
And the gay culture took over and broke down the family and took down Rome.
I like the way Kaj Larsen reports. He allows the person being interviewed to actully tell their story. Rare these days
+Barry Smith Seriously! I feel like an attentive nod can get more out of a person sometimes than an aggressive stare. The man he's interviewing is admitting things that I don't think he would admit if he felt like he were under attack. You can draw whatever parallels you want from that haha.
This is one of the most fascinating interviews I've ever seen! Well done VICE, I am more and more impressed with you guys every day!
Having served in Afghanistan I can say that a lot has changed on the ground. Not sitting behind a desk in Kabul or some air base in Kandahar but actually being on the ground eating,sleeping and living with Afghans.I know what it was like on the ground and some spook that works for a financial agency isn't going to change what we accomplished on the ground. I would see kids going to school flourishing bazaars and a very vibrant populace happy with change and the security forces being proud and able to conduct operations by themselves.But since this guy is in a suit and using fancy words I guess you can take his word for it...
It doesn’t sound like he was wrong though. That world could only exist if the US committed to staying in Afghanistan for a much longer time period
I love how all these CIA guys refer to the various policies that have led to the current situation in the Middle East as "mistakes." They were not mistakes. The goal was and is clearly continual destabilization and inflammation of the Middle East. Without all the strife, we'd have no excuse to get all up in there. It's something the establishment doesn't acknowledge, but if you think about it for even a minute, it makes too much sense to be untrue. And in that light, clearly CIA's policies were quite successful.
What's the cost of all that?
I really like this journalist, he is one of the most professional that VICE has. He really knows how to ask the tough questions but in such a way that they seem very neutral to the person he is interviewing. I think it really helps to sort of let the interviewee's guard down and get them to actually share their thoughts/information.
Pfft. Of course a CIA agent would boast that every single inch of Planet Earth needs to be under the watchful eye of government. :P
I like how the CIA dude gets to bring back war trophy's but troops can't.
That’s what separates us from the ruling class. You don’t live in a society with rule of law anymore it’s rule in law created by the ruling class and there’s a huge difference between the two
Well legally no u can’t but you know
Well , the CIA orchestrates the war , the poor troops just blindly fight them 😉
That's because the CIA guy got his trophy from the local population that was his allies, the reason troops don't take war trophies is because the enemy booby traps them after they found out American troops will take souvenirs.
Make no mistake, I'm far far far from a CIA apologist, and I never supported either War, but comments about this interview being propaganda are just laughable. Mr. Grenier is very straight forward in his answers and I didn't pick up on any "double speak". He has an excellent grasp on the realities of trying to foster a stable environment in an extremely volatile region and outlined the many mistakes made. That said, he's very likely on or closely in tune with the Council of Foreign Relations, Trilateral Commission, Bilderberg Group ect. So if you're well informed, you'll be able to pick up on some very keen information, directly from the "horses mouth" so to speak. If you don't realize this, then well you're stupid.
i like the terrain and landscape of Afghanistan, but the only problem is the war and live shells and mines that are still there.
Same here, beautiful country
Eze Enwereuzor yeah, too bad the people there aren't competent enough to develop it. ;D
4EverDubin LOL yep.
***** Thats a biome simplification.
***** there is not only desert, there are mountains, there are deserts there are forest, it is a very diversified country in terms of nature, you can even have snow during winter
Great stuff!!!!!!!!! Always watch Vice!!!
Powerfully insightful! Solid work guys!
Great interview.
Key Point: 10:30 to 12:25
Grenier even says that the uprising with ISIS aka IS traces back to Bush Era Policy. Once the military campaign of dethroning Hussain, major mistakes were made that opened doors for ISIS.
Unslaved Films, the youtube channel with videos such as Psychic Vampirism lol...ya ill pass bud. I don't think my comment warranted such a harsh response. If you disagree with my statement, I would like to hear your point of view Tom.
***** I'm just paraphrasing what his Grenier said. I never said "It's Bush's Fault," Im saying that from what I read and see, political commentators like to say ISIS happens because of Obama's decision to try and end the longest conflict in American History.
I personally don't believe its any one single persons fault, but a culmination of errors and jumping the gun to quickly over the past 14 years. Ultimately, this conflict shows the inability of the middle east to reestablish themselves in a from of government that will stop terrorist groups from uprising, establish democratic qualities (voting, civil rights, ect), and maintain stability in the region.
Pickleman I simplify things or Grenier does?
***** I think you miss the fact that Bush sign a agreement in 2008 to withdraw troop from all Iraq territory no later than 2011, and Obama was force by law of Us president to fellow that agreement. Obama fail in navigating with Maliki to allow US. troop to stay in Iraq.
You damn right It was obvios for the US and the world that the US Army wouldnt have much trouble beating Hussein, the big problem was actually the aftermath of the campaign, he said it himself it was a series of mistakes that eventually will come back in force, or should I say come back with the name of ISIS. Shame. Now those mistakes Are a global issue.
VICE News visited Grenier at his home in Virginia to talk about America’s longest war, the CIA’s use of "enhanced interrogation techniques," and the rise of the Islamic State.
Watch "Ex-CIA Officer John Kiriakou: The VICE News Interview” - bit.ly/1JxQ8SW
VICE News ответь на мой коментарий!
1 million Afghans died . The war left Afghanistan with severe political, economic, and ecological problems. More than 1 million Afghans died in the war and 5 million became refugees in neighboring countries. In addition, 15,000 Soviet soldiers were killed and 37,000 wounded. Economic production was drastically curtailed, and much of the land laid waste. At the end of the war more than 5 million mines saturated approximately 2% of the country, where they will pose a threat to human and animal life well into the 21st cent. The disparate guerrilla forces that had triumphed proved unable to unite, and Afghanistan became divided into spheres of control. These political divisions set the stage for the rise of the Taliban later in the decade.
Read more: Afghanistan War www.infoplease.com/encyclopedia/history/afghanistan-war.html#ixzz3Y9TV8qmP
VICE News personally we should have never disbanded parts of the iraqi army, and let it fester
***** soviets aren't socialist though otherwise the Nazis wouldn't have attacked them
***** not as in keep the army so it could fester. more like the fact that we kicked them out should have never happened, but since we did it festered with hate for America. (sorry for my bad wording)
"When we talk about "CIA" why we never use the word "the" in front of it. And I asked him, do you put the word "the" in front of "God"?"
This is the best summary of Afghanistan that I have seen and the most accurate prediction of what has unfolded
16:50 - how, in the context of "enhanced intereogation", he tries to make employees who may have ethical or moral conscience concerns about such orders/acts, and inclined to say no, as "institutional insubordination."
Legal (if it really is) does not mean ethical. If someone truly thinks it is a grave ethical violation, they should be allowed to opt out and do other work.
It seems he wants it to run like the military chain of command. I get following lawful orders, but it's also not the military, and even lawful orders could sometimes be gravely immoral / unethical. There should be an office for ethical integrity to petition such things/ opt-out.
He does seem well versed otherwise.
My life is "just a little better" having watched and enjoyed this incredibly adept and skilled journalist.
Never seen somebody so spot on. This guy is the real deal. Knows his shit and knows it well. I'd want him in charge of my foreign policy team in the Middle East.
+stylz1 i liked the part when he didnt even flinch when lying about the effectiveness of torture
Glad he's talking about it just now, when he lives in a white-picket fence house in Virginia while people step foot out of their house across the war with a fear of getting blown to pieces.
And literally all of his expert predictions turned out to be wrong, from the Iraq War to the Taliban never taking over Afghanistan again. Typical worthless spook, thinking he's the master of the world. Anyways, let's check out the dagger collection of all of these people who actually hate me...
Pashtuns are called by different names Punjabi and Hindus call us pathans, Persians call us Afghani, Americans call us Taliban and Arabs call us mujahideen.
At the end of the day this war is being waged on Pashtuns, they suffered the most in this war.
this didnt age well
He is saying the same thing that the other CIA member said, that the government never set up policy to govern the interrogation practices and then blamed them as to why they were doing it. Organizations of the government are supposed to have clear mandates from the government, but that would then leave the government responsible so that is why they never made a policy.
BombasticLove87 CIA interrogation was introduced in a field manually I believe back in the 60's which didn't conform to the UN convention of torture. This UN convention went into effect in the United States during Bill Clinton's presidency where Bill Clinton and the CIA formed new interrogation methods which were used during Bill Clinton's administration this is where "rendition" became popular. Under Bill Clintons administration the CIA was performing renditions to Egypt, Bush etc actually reformed this to improve the legality and policies..
Gillad Fide It's a shame that the USA has to act like they actually care about what the UN thinks or does. The UN is a joke and should act as an outlet for discussion and unity not as policy makers.
America is a country ruled by law and inhabited by bullshit artists... Take it for what it is worth, but we abide the law...
Checkingokop We have a system of laws and a constitution w/ a supreme court. I believe legislation passed that authorized forced sodomy by the government with a giant metal pole would be found unconstitutional, since it would be considered cruel and unusual punishment.
Checkingokop lol.. Well it is a fruitless exercise to try to fit government forced sodomy into some definition outside of cruel and unusual punishment.. Now if you want someone else to put a large metal pole and both of you are consenting adults I believe someone can assist you with that...
Rape is a sex crime already defined...
"In 2009 Grenier was appointed Chairman of ERG Partners, an independent financial and strategic advisory firm solely focused on the security and intelligence sectors."
Why is there a revolving door between the CIA and the finance sector?
@TheQualityrkc, I think we all know the answer to that question. But "they" believe, we are all sheep with blinders on and as dumb as a bag of dicks. Until we prove how smart we as a people are, and that we the people are Lions rather than the sheep "they" NEED us to be, we the people will continue to be blind sheep. I am a Lion, I am a Patriot. Don't tread on me.
true, but its also all he knows, unless he goes be a bus driver, teacher, waiter, or whatever else that he would consider beneath him, so he goes private and does the same job he always was doing
Everything America touches turns into stone.
Except Japan, Korea, Germany, and the Philippines.
Go drive a Hyundai!
I wish. Everything we touch turns into drywall.
A diamond stone.
@@Claptonisgod33 American made basses when they weak now
Occupied not leaving the bases
While Afghanistan and middle East
invade by west twice
In world War 1 then start of 21 century with New World Order
Anyone read this book?
Edit: Vice - This is one of your better reporters. Utilize him.
P.S. - This guy has SO much cooler stuff to talk about then 'enhanced interrogation techniques' come on
So he admits of wrong doing and error in policy making and with this "Mistake"They end up killing thousands of innocent people.
What else are CIA are known for ?
Acting like that's NOT what they are known for what else.
The 12th Man
The 12th Man
yes as understood from what the ex cia says in this video interview
War is complicated.
josh brolins best appearance ever
13:00
"It belongs in a museum!"
2:36 He worked "very hard' in 2 long meetings....
i know haha i've heard that before from another CIA man. That must be one of their universal replies from a CIA-agent-answering-public-questions-manual.
Very engaging interview. Robert Grenier is definitely the authority on relations in the region also coupled with lessons learned in hindsight. It would be wise for the current US administration to heed his wisdom.
When you fund a terrorist group to get rid of a terrorist group that you funded to get rid of a terrorist group that you funded to get rid of a terrorist group that you funded to get...
I may not agree with Grenier on everything [particularly his position on the Iraq invasion], but it is nice to finally hear someone speaking directly, cohesively, analytically and honestly to these diverse and complex subjects. It is unusual in media to find this concise perspective, clearly presented, accurate and to relevant facts without heavy spin. Despite differences of opinion, this was music to my ears. This is what news and media SHOULD be like.
Jay Tee Congrats to Grenier on the Afghan war strategy. Epic smooth success - CIA brilliance. The epic fails after the end of the "first Afghan war" [in his words], were however beyond description in the ignorance, arrogance and folly that resulted in trillions of dollars wasted, American and Afghan lives needlessly spent, and total failure to achieve the bizarre goals and methodology chosen toward unachievable ends.
Conspiracy theorists coming in 3.2.1...
This isn't even a theory. It's fact.
Marcus Ryser You're a dumbass.
Supreme Spiritualist Look at the comment section, there are plenty of conspiracy theorists, clamining that 9/11 was an inside job, and that this guy is lying.
Marcus Ryser 9/11 was an inside job.
Supreme Spiritualist Thank you for proving my point.
Nice velvet glove interview guys, real great "journalism".
I had just read "Imperial Life in the Emerald City" about the 2003/2204 post war US occupation of Iraq and it's refreshing to hear the admittance of the many errors back then from a high ranking ex-CIA member. One of the biggest problems back then was that jobs where given to people loyal to the president's agenda foremost, not if they were qualified for it and that's something that seems to be even more rampant with the government right now. I also fear that Trump might eventually succeed in reshaping some intelligence agencies (whom most president's don't seem to listen to enough in the first place since they are often the bringer of bad news and complicated problems) to his liking so they are just another group of lackeys and yes-men.
great interview by vice
I dont know if this is reporting or propaganda.
holyinfantry999 Vice news is has the same owner as Fox news.
WowElias300 yes because fox is owned by Shane Smith
tales Heard of Rupert mordoch?!
WowElias300 hes not the owner, hes a share holder. although you probably already know that and are lying for mother russia
holyinfantry999 If it was propaganda they wouldn't admit they made mistakes. The whole point of propaganda is to make people believe something is real when it isn't. In this video they point out that mistakes were made and that the Afghan are in a precarious situation due to these mistakes from the U.S. These are both real and true. If this was a propaganda video they would say that America did it right and everything will be ok but they do not.
In conclusion: this is reporting.
Robert Grenier is a genius, we should get him back in charge
+ph0kused He more or less concedes that most of what he touched turned to shit.
@ofnotandi, Yessir! You must listen, not just hear.
Why was the CIA in Afghanistan before 9/11 in the first place? Informed answers appreciated.
You guys not paying much attention to the background of all the mess in Middle East. CIA was supposly getting info and supporting the Afghans dealing with the taliban, that's basically why the "War Plan" of this guy was used, he spent some time Close to the people and had best perspective of what was going down.
Kjetil Pedersen Because Clinton's objective for the CIA in the 1990s was to kill or capture Bin Laden. The planned military operations to capture/kill Bin Laden were never carried out, but the paramilitary operatives there did build fairly good relations with some of the tribal leaders during their pursuit of Bin Laden. Keep in mind that the US, during Clinton's presidency, were also launching cruise missiles into Afghanistan in the late 90s when our government got word that Al Qaeda was responsible for the 1998 US embassy bombings, and thus targeted the military training camps that were spread throughout afghanistan.
TheSympathize They were dealing with the Bin Laden family at large for a long time, not trying to "capture/kill" him...
Kjetil Pedersen i heard they like the smack
Kjetil Pedersen Proxy war against Soviets duh.
good interview Larsen!
It's THE C.I.A NOT C.I.A! for example "I joined THE C.I.A" NOT "I joined C.I.A" It makes no sense because C. I. A stands for Central Intelligence Agency.
10Phoenix01 Gamer Calm down there, skipper.
Dr Gonzo I am calm, I only shout at my computer when it answers back
10Phoenix01 Gamer anyone been round to cart you off in a straight jacket yet lol
They are on their way
10Phoenix01 Gamer CIA is a big word don't you think?
Bankers and Capitalism make US policy, not the government.
So, he's in Afghanistan prior to 9/11, laying the groundwork for a war against the Taliban, and you don't question him on the coincidence?
I know man, I thought I was the only one that noticed this.
Kremlin bots see "CIA" Attack mode engaged
The white house bots - protection mode engaged
Noble Sublett a russian flotilla has just entered New York harbor
Noble Sublett Because the CIA are the good guys...
4:25 "Very little known... including in the intelligence community". Then how did they determine within hours of the Twin Towers that Afghanistan was at all responsible?
lol whats funny is that...according to the CIA guy....they were planning a coup in afghanistan 14 months prior to 9 - 11..but couldnt go with it cuz there was no funding. And then lol..conveniently..9-11 happens...and now they get all the funding in the world. So basically the blueprint was always there...just waiting for a pretext. Kinda shows how they wanted 9 - 11 to happen..or even executed it themselves
That was said in this video? I missed that part I guess.
1:14
oh damn
He also says they didn't have "presidential findings" to try and "actively" overthrow the taliban...what? So what the hell were they even doing this for? Crazy how obviously contrived the narratives of the last 16 years are looking in hindsight.
Until you read Robert’s book “88 Days to Kandahar” please refrain from biased and groundless claims on this man’s story. I am in no way stating that the Agency is exempt from malpractice but Bob certainly had a well deserved career in his years there. Intelligence is a tough business to be in, especially with its covert nature and moral contradictions. He at least seemed to be on the better side of the three letter agencies.
There war criminals whose only real job is manipulates meases create false enemies by deception and attack countries for there resources
Applied for the CIA earlier today on their website
N u get rejected.🤣
This gentlemen is easily the most learned, clear-thinking person I have heard from the US intelligence community. And yet he still does not get it. He still "fears" the US will be "forced" into another US-Afghan war... How can these people be reasoned with?
That is my UNCLE
Love you ❤️
Thanks
wait the US won a war in Afghanistan? maybe the gouverment needs to redifine the words :D
LP Games CH they did pretty well for a war zone they were not familiar with in any way
Is the afgan government still in control of most of the country? Yes! Then we won!
LP Games CH wait, why didnt they win?
I will be honest the gov in Afghanistan controls little more than the land it stands on however I wouldn't say it is a american loss at all the war was never about victory it was about revenge and destroying training camps I do think afghanistan will slip back in a few years but we will see
TheSympathize
They did not win simpley because they dint reach their goal, they foght this war to stabilce the region and to step down on terrorism but now they are leaving and all they have to show for is a even more unstable country which has a unsable gouvermant and is far from peace, not to mention the heavy losses and large amount of tax dollars used for this war which has achived not one single goal but rather even more encouraged terrorism. So jeah they lost
An interesting insight on some details.
Robert kinda reminds me of George Bush.
It's his eyes.
very well spoken
This guys questions are so weak.
I feel like you could have called this "The Real Life Sol Berenson"
"C.I.A = Clowns In Action" - my history teacher
John Criminal in Action -Zack Delarocha
From 2001 to 2005, Afghanistan was relatively peaceful after the invasion. But when Iraq sucked up resources, Afghanistan returned to chaos. If Iraq hadn't happened, our foreign policy of the last decade and a half would have be seen as extremely successful.
It is quite remarkable how when you type "Operation Cyclone" on UA-cam, the first video that pops up is an interview with a former CIA official that talks about post 9/11 actions/policies.
Funny enough that the actual root cause for terrorism in the area was laid out exactly by having armed and planted the seed of terrorism through CIAs involvement in Afghanistan in the 80ies (Operation Cyclone). Hoped to find more information about that instead of having a CIA person talk about the consequences (station troops in Afghanistan) of a consequence (9/11 terrorist attacks) of the actual cause (CIA supporting Mujahedin) that was ultimately the mistake of the CIA.
I also love how the guy just randomly says that it was okay to wage war over a sovereign country (Iraq), where over 100.000 civilians died and refers to torturing as "harsh interrogation".
How many times will it take the US to learn from their mistakes (just to name a few);
Support and arm Mujaheddin in Afghanistan --> Actively help the spreading of terrorism
Invade Iraq --> Prepare the way for the ascendence of the IS
Arm the Kurds in Syria --> Destabilizing region, majorly Turkey (NATO partner)
Thank you very much CIA.
who's here in 2021?
Grenier certainly has had an interesting life. I bet he would be fun to talk to and listen to the stories he has.
It seems Mr. Grenier recently heard or read the expression "writ large" used by someone he admires or finds noteworthy. He is using the expression every time he sees an opportunity. I saw this practice often in the Marine Corps among officers and senior enlisted. The repetition of an expression they felt made them sound knowledgeable or experiences in their fields. There are so many funny quirks like this within the armed services.
There are two aspects missing: the first one is the historical subject that international capital concentrated in US needed to keep it social control: the revolutionary proletariat and, the second aspect is strictly business: the production of heroin. After the CIA secured the production, distribution and consumption of Heroin to the internacional market, capital agents in Doha agreed to a withdraw from Afghanistan.
I think this guy is a very good Risk player
It is not in the stars to hold our destiny but in ourselves.
Jim Gant is a hero
Good guys always helping out
No one walks away from torture unchanged, not the victim, nor the torturer himself.
This guy is really intelligent and I get the sense that he really knows what he is talking about. Great interview! If only our politicians during this conflict were not completely insane (Bush and Cheney). Even though I am not a big fan of CIA operations I from this interview at least got the sense that Mr. Grenier was trying to do the best he could in a bad situation.
I have great respect for him. I attended his book signing recently. He was a good friend of Pakistan and we had an excellent working relationship with him and the CIA during his time. There was great cooperation between Pakistan/ISI and the US/CIA under his leadership as station chief. Many al qaeda scum bags were nailed through joint operations.
Diesel_Nut84 Can't trust USA. They are a terrorist state.
***** His tenure in Pakistan ended around 2006....WAY after we defeated the soviets in afghanistan. I think you should watch this video again and/or refresh your knowledge
as for these allegations about Pakistan's role in Afghanistan - tell me why the US is in contact with these same groups?
***** Amrullah Saleh is a warlord from northern alliance and an indian stooge. His career is destroyed and he has no effect on policy. Find more suitable/relevant role models sir
***** That's right. Saleh and the NA are nothing but indian stooges but Pakistan, the ISI and our assets in Afghanistan have done a tremendous job containing them and also destroying their careers. Saleh was head of the NDS. Now he's cowering away in some safe house spending all his days on twitter.
And buddy - let me tell you something. There is no "and IF" ....there are no "Ifs"....The US govt. was the one that literally BEGGED Pakistan to facilitate the setting up of an Afghan taleban office in Doha Qatar. Pakistan's intentions were good, we wanted the Americans and this Afghan organization to have contact with eachother in the interests that we are ALL on the SAME PAGE. And yes America's goals are ever shifting. We know the US is itching to scale down and leave the problems for us to solve. We knew that in 2001, which is why we hedged our bets and had a good insurance policy in place.
Diesel_Nut84 They use Pakistan as an escape goat. The US fucked up plain and simple.
This video aged like fine milk
The man giving the interview openly says his mistakes and calculations in his interview and says America needs a presence to both fight and make progress with countries...which is treat each war lord like a ruler of a nation in Afghanistan to make sure that "country" isn't a threat. What else do people want?
Fascinating
That's a big problem right now. Public Officials deciding what rules they want to follow, and which they do not.
Hard to believe the CIA would let him talk
They let him tell truth mixed with lies
I was in Kabul in early 2002 with British Forces my first tour an interesting place
In mid-August 2013, Rupert Murdoch's corporation 21st Century Fox invested US$70 million in Vice Media, resulting in a 5 percent stake. Following the announcement, Smith explained, "We have set ourselves up to build a global platform but we have maintained control."[10][11]
That heroin isn’t going to move itself.
No it began when the us started supplying osoma with money to fuel his troops.
There is little to show. What a shame.
Russia, Britain, the USA, France, Iran and the Saudis work together, however, all that effort plus more failed against the freedom fighters fighting the invaders and colonized regimes.
😂this was an aged half - thought threat ?!
Title should say “how the cia waged war in Afghanistan and LOST.” 😂🤣
Now if I was selling a book, I would do the same. Good marketing guy.
@12:30
oh yeah check out the spoils of my crusader days!
cool daggers bro.
What's the point of war in Afghanistan ? Poppy plant black market or crude oil ?
Michael Lamph I would love to see the world one day, work together explore the outer space / unlimited resources at other planet.
Very interesting interview and his comments are enlightening. But overall, what a waste of solders, civilians and money that has very little good to show for it all.
Robert Grenier points are spot on, these were points I thought of even as a teenager while following the sectarian violence. in Iraq. If they went in with the idea of countries led by locals, they would have been more successful. By essentially demolishing Saddam's supporters they created a new regime that was equally unfair as it was dominated by the victors. History shows us time and time again that if you completely replace the previous regime by the victors you usually end up with a second war or a revolution.
The United States efforts in Afghanistan deserve praise and support. The Taliban was oppressive and sheltered terrorists including Bin Laden. Fighting the Taliban was a noble effort.
One additional way to do this is to support Pakistan in waging war against the Taliban in its territory.
The United States should not leave Afghanistan until the Taliban is eliminated. . A coalition government with the Taliban is bad because then the Taliban is legitimized and can infiltrate and take over the Afghan government.
His prediction came true
"The majority of those never saw anything, uh, you know, more coersive than what you would expect to find in a You Ess police precinct."
Ah, so they were handcuffed and driven roughly about in the backs of police vans until their necks broke. Got it.
Did they just change the title?
no counters? i mean come on he just laid out that our economy is a war based economy or else we would be back into the areas we were at pre 9-11. how well would our social programs be this long in if we had invested locally rather than abroad? should of let a former soldier interview him.
Correction, we have the Kurds which can be utilized as a power to stabilize the region. The only thing, I would presume, they would ask for is the same as when they fought in northern Iraq. Government and autonomy throughout Iraq and Syria.
''Been There Done That''