Watch This Next 🌟 ua-cam.com/video/kKiW-8bUSQg/v-deo.html 🌟 TODAYS SPONSOR 👉 25% Coupon code for software using "TL25": biitt.ly/XQT7V How does Intel's handling of this situation sit with you?
first off i am only aware of MSI motherboards having the Intel microcode patch too bring the CPU back too specs instead of OVERCLOCKED straight out the box with too much voltage !!! also too check you have the patch applied you go into BIO,s and power limits and PL1 should be 125watts and PL2 should be 253watts and core voltage should be idle 1.0v and boost 1.2v ... i dont think you got the microcode update and you have a bad CPU cooler block mount , don't use carbon pads , their garbage . use thermal paste and a Thermalright retention bracket for 12/13/14 gen Intel .. and if the settings ive just given you are not applied in your bios then you do not have the microcode update that make the voltages Stock intel and your still running the OC bios which is causing issues ..
I remain unimpressed by what I've seen from Intel regarding these issues thus far: stonewalling, stealth edits, and finger pointing. (One might almost get the idea that they're running a Presidential campaign. 🤔)
It's just a patch to keep the power spikes down to a minimum so chips degrade slower until those warranties run out and they won't have to replace all of them.
My response to Intel: I'm buying AMD from now on. (This scandal better create an new industry standard on how chips are screened and tested for defects moving forward; until that happens I no longer trust Intel to do the right thing). Hell, even AMD has issues but they're the lesser of two... inconveniences.
Same. It took me a year between settings and BIOS updates to get both 12700KF & 12900KF fully stable (even left Windows for Linux, Nobara 40 now was 39). I don't even have the 13th/14th issue though had I spent more money I could have had it. 1 gen of support, it's a new low. 12400F also will stay untouched. Essentially 1 gen of stability this time around.
@@gungagalunga9040 Businesses actually care if they are investing in cpu's that would cause their operations to slow down or even halt due to these issues. And telling other people are geeks when you're watching a tech channel is peak hypocrisy. Geeks are specialists at what they are interested in and people will listen to them because they know so much about a given topic. Given how much amd's market share has been growing and intel has been going through a downhill trend, they should actually worry.
@@samwaller4092 Psst, spoiler alert, it isn't. The voltages are still too high and they are still gonna degrade. Marginally slower, but no big change. If they want to run them safe they would have to go lower, run them at around 1,3v. that means say goodbye to 6Ghz singlecore turbo, or any high turbos above 5Ghz in general. They do not want to do that so we have this mess.
4:36 One of the problems you show with your voltage graph is it is the average. The problem happens because the CPU requests a large spike of voltage for a very short period. The average hides those spikes. The problem is that those repeated spikes damage parts of the core and you get silicon degradation. The big issue people are having is that this microcode will not solve the problem. If you have damage to your CPU from the voltage spikes, it is irreversible. This microcode update may prevent it from happening, but if there is degradation it can't fix this because it's physical damage. Just like the Pentium floating point problem, intel is not going to have a recall. They will not refund your money. And they will keep selling chips. NEVER buy buy used or second hand intel CPU's because you don't know what you're going to get. There will be a bunch of people selling working but bad chips.
Yeah used to be that used Intel CPU was the safe choice, bought plenty 2nd gen to 8th gen used and OCed them no problem, running a 5.1Ghz OC on my 9900k for 4+ years with no problems but you're rights about 13th and 14th gen I won't be buying any of those used unless I can test before buying or I know it's from someone that manually tuned their system. TL very disappointed that you ran your 4000$ PC at stock bios settings, expected you to tune your PC.
I'm glad I'm not a content creation guy who needed an Intel cpu, but just a gamer. My Ryzen 7 7800X3D has been probably the best cpu purchase I've made and looks to be for a few years more. Sorry, Intel consumers😕
_Save one for me!_ (Once I'm done with my current round of builds) I'm moving *back* to Team Red. (The last AMD CPU I used in a build of mine was a _Phenom II X6 1055T._ 😛)
I am glad I went with the 12900KF. I am not having any issues and by the time I need to upgrade Intel will be on 16th gen or more. I swore off AMD after the FX8350 Black was such a letdown. I will probably never go back to team RED.
I started using the 7800x3d on my work pcs. Keeps my office cooler, uses less energy, has been very stable so far. I have swapped almost every one of my kids pcs over to it. Fantastic cpu. You can cool it with a silver soul 135 just as well as a noctua.
@charlesg5085 Yeah, you could cool it with a Wraith Prism cpu cooler if you really wanted to, lol. I've got mine cooled with an aio and a -30mhz boost offset, max temp of 75. I want it to last.
Good thing I got the service plan with my processor at Micro Center. Going to return it and get a free upgrade to a 9950x or 9950X3d when they come out later this year.
Good call waiting for Zen 5 X3D! Zen 5 regular CPUs in my opinion won't come close to Zen 5 X3D! Micro Center just kicks ass. Always superior to Best Buy.
I strongly believe that those 900 series are actually 700 series, but they got greedy and pushed those chips to perform as 900 by using some kind of voltage tricks that are currently failing, and they blamed it as bug. Now they're in a very difficult situation if they couldn't find a way to keep them run stable as 900 specs, they would have to revert them back to 700 specs and legal issues would probably hit them very hard.
This is such a low IQ take, the underlying architecture is totally different please see level1techs video to understand. And do you think Amd would dare do this is the current environment with what is happening to intel is laughable 😂
Just lock all your cores and lower your vcore and offset, and lower your cpu power to 253 watts. Problem solved, you dont need the micro code update as many others have stated it only prolongs the degradation by forcing longer idle states, but when the cpu is pushed hard those 2 cores will still ramp up, and it will shove more than 1.4+ volts into the cores, and kill the cpu overtime.
@@RP-16 Yeah, I understand. I too wish you could just plug and play with the cpu like with previous generations, and not have to worry about the cpu degrading, or having to manually tune it to save it, but this is where we are at now. It is either tune it yourself or do the bios update, and prolong the inevitable of the cpu degrading in a few years time.
@@TheCzar1 did the update and my game just doesn’t run as good as it did a few weeks ago before the crashes and freezes started. My pc is cooked I picked intel performance, should I do extreme?
@@RP-16 I wouldn't even bother with the Intel profile. I would just manually go into the bios and lock all the cores to the real speed of the cpu. For example, if you have a 13900ks or 14900k, lock all the cores to 56 (5.6 ghz), then set the vcore to 1.345v with a negative offset starting at -75 and working your way up if you need more of an offset. You want to keep the voltage below 1.35v at all times. Also, if you have Windows 11 you have to turn off "core isolation" as it will override any vcore voltage and offset that you set. Also, limit the cpu power to 253 watts max. If your cpu is already degraded then send it into Intel and once you get the new one tune it right away. Hope this helped.
What pisses me off is that IF my 13900k blows up, what the hell am I gonna replace it with? Unless Intel actually fixes the problem on a new chip, I'm in the same boat, so I'd have to replace my $1000 mobo as well!!! So far, luckily, I've seen no issues, but I've been running it stock and haven't had too much time to play with OC it yet, thank god! I've installed the fix, but still #$%! you Intel.... 😡
The most importance is any chance that the coming 15th gen CPU has issue (degradation , freeze during high load) or not . If I am not sure I will jump ship to AMD , I dont have time to waste , just buy AMD and good to go.
I'm jumping back to AMD next build. I spent a lot of time tuning over the past year to get 12700KF & 12900KF rigs stable. I don't think it was worth the cost savings though both are great htpcs/gaming rigs (perhaps a 7800X3D would have just been less hassle). The experience to get there was bad though, countless Windows 10/11 fresh installs, ram swaps (still not getting QVL promised). The last straw was , just went full (no dual boot anymore) Nobara 39 now 40 fresh installs. My Intel experience with stability did get worse over time and I feel on the one hand I may have blamed the 7800XT & 7900XTX for crashing in a few games . When even the 4090 was having issues, I think some of those were just Intel issues. Am e cores off, running decently conservative settings on the Z690s. My friend I helped with his 5800X build in 2020 has 0 issues. Even if a future sale exists I'm not sure it's worth saving a small amount of money to have to troubleshoot just to be stable. I haven't played much with 12400F, still have that B760M from the original builds. I feel like 9600K and 12th gen moreso are the most time I have ever spent on BIOS settings. Everything is updated and I do like some learning/tinkering but I feel like never again if I can help things. It probably wasn't Windows or AMD drivers fault though any Alder Lake issues, oddly enough the AMD drivers/machines were stable on Linux. I think the theory about the IO moving for 13th/14th that they made it worse is interesting. I could stay on these machines a good 2-3 years and be happy now, but I don't think I would build them again.
For the first part if my life i was all intel, when it came to cpu, after all i had a pentium e5500, e8400 , after that went to an i7 6700k , than to 8700k. But i kept track with AMD stuff.Than they released the 3000 series and the core doubled again to 16c/32th as well as the ipc. At this point i decided to get an AMD processor, the ryzen 3600 , which i soon upgraded to ryzen 3700x and in 2022 i got a ryzen 5900X, which at 1440p was perfect along an rx 6800xt. But i wanted the best for once and a month ago i got the ryzen 7800x3d and a rx 7900xtx. I have yet to test the difference, but what's certain is that i won't be upgrading anytime soon or at least untill i actually have to or there's a noticeable increase in IPC and cores per CCD along with 3d Cache. Now i'm all AMD and i'm glad i made the switch.
@@Greenalex89 Same AMD 5950x, Sapphire 6700xt. Building pcs 30 years, best rig yet. Intel screwed the pooch, I had the original Pentium 60 with FPU and was never compensated. I've also have Nvidia chips with substrate issues in laptops. Both times they wriggled out of it until the machines were out of warranty, Intel will do the same now.
I feel like Intel not only has to flawlessly refund buyers without any further issues whatsoever, but also drop a new tech bomb, issue free high value CPU to regain their position, at least for the small gaming segment. I don't think the big industry gives 2 shits about the brand. They have contracts and make their calculations for investments. If those run out and new purchases need to be made, they start the same procedure, based on numbers.
I’ve personally been on Ryzen since Ryzen 2000 series CPUs till AM5 (now) and simply undervolt or used curve optimiser for all my CPUs 💪😇👍. I used to overclock back in the mid-late 90’s but in recent times prefer undervolts as I’ve been building ITX PCs since intel 3770k and love sff designs 😱🤩🥳
I dipped after the 8700k/7980XE, bought a 1950x then 3950x and now a 7950x. Nothing to do with brand loyalty for me, Intel 18 core cost me $3500 while AMD offered me 16 cores for $1200 which performed better with reduced power consumption. I really don't know why anybody would buy an Intel processor for anything? Adobe? Does it really matter saving a minute off your render? I can play Robocop Rogue City, run an Arch VM, render a 4k video, watch a podcast or film on my other panel all at the same time, 14900k can't do that. 7800x3D for gaming and 7950x or Threadripper for power users, Intel is simply not the best choice not even close. Sorry this has happened though but I saw the potential issues when they started with this big core little core crapola.
Always had Intel heavily overclocked in my gaming systems. I have a 8700K that is running rock solid on 5.4Ghz (base 3.6Ghz) for over 4 years now, which is amazing. But this debacle brought me over to AMD.
Overclocking is a complete waste of time and money. All it does is risk voiding your warranty and shorten the life of your parts. When there is a genuine manufacturing defect you will be out of luck because you overclocked.
I bought my i9 13900K in January 2023.In October 2023 starts crashing in games and BSOD.Then i undervolt it and crashing stops.Update to the latest bios (not the August one yet).Now CPU gets high temps on cores 0,1,2,18,and 19. I have 360 AIO and 8 vents in a big tower case.I tried RMA ,but Intel denied it and send me the chart for setting the correct parameters in bios.Did that but problems stays.I will try through the seller of CPU to RMA again.I don't have high hopes, bcs i'm from EU. When i run cinebench or similar stress tests,temps are normal for this CPU,but when i watch yt video in full screen and move mouse,the above mentioned cores go crazy on temps.
Same with me, just sending me bogus parameters instead of a working chip (3 months old now). Conflicting parameters too. They, after a week, first provided me with values I asked for and some more, but when applied my 14700k performance drops for 35%. Main culprits for nerfing are: eTVB = Enabled, TVB voltage = Enabled, CEP = Enabled. But then, the same day, shortly after first the email with nerfing parameters, Intel sends me another email that says I should set Intel defaults... and to contact motherboard manufacturer.
do remember intel gen13 and gen 14 CPU also have an oxidation issue that is separate from the over voltage issue. The oxidation issue probably continued to damage the CPU after you solved the over voltage issue. Your CPU is dying.
just sue them. they have to fulfil the RMA. they are in troubled waters and most likely to have a class action lawsuit over this. thousands and thousands of companies use their chips and are failing which means losing profits and business because of hardware failure effecting their operations. they will not only be sued for the hardware but potential losses because of these chips. i have no idea why they think they are going to be able to pay a penalty when there is going to be an army of businesses and corporations that will be demanding they make up the losses through a lawsuit. intel did the dumbest reaction they could have followed through with. whoever made the move to hide it and come up with a BS non fixer should immediately step down for ruining a huge chunk of their reputation. They were well aware of the problems before they shipped them to sale but went ahead and sent them for sale. it was intentional to make a dollar and probably one of the worst business decisions made in recent years.
I bought my i9 13900kf in october 2023, until this day never had any issues.. I tried all of the tests people have said the 13th gen i9 shits it self at cinebench, prime95, black myth wukong benchmark tool etc etc and I never had any issues with the cpu, my cpu never even went above 1.48v. I guess I am good..
Yeah well everyone can't afford to throw out their $400 or up mb because when I bought my Intel cpu AMD chips were catching fire so I went with Intel, not everyone has a crystal ball on hand.
@@EddieMcclanahan you mean a few on a specific mobo that was addmitid to be the mobo fault and where amd said the same day that it would replace any damaged chip? Vs intell hiding ww2 gens of bad chips? I would agree ridenyour setup till it dies but if you defend intell or buy thier products again you deserve the issues you get.
@@mddunlap03 And not all 13/14900k CPUs are degrading either. This story started from a company using Intels highest boosting CPUs for their game servers, and then wonder why the CPUs are crashing. Every server grade CPU has been a limited to low boost clocks for a reason, it’s for heat and longevity, but for some reason this company decided to use CPUs that boost to 6ghz in all their server racks and are stunned they’re having problems. Pueget also stated their AMD CPUs were crashing and having more RMAs than their Intel CPUs but nobody wants to talk about that 😂
Despite firing 15k employees and recent CPU woes Intel must be doing alright overall as Pat Gelsingers yearly remuneration increased 45% to $16.86 million in 2023.
Its a sales and marketing company now, that occasionally throws a bone to engineering and research. Thats why they are in trouble, 15+ years of under investment in R&D. Pats unlikely to be able to fix it, I suspect they fired 15,000 engineers and not sales and marketing gimps.
Keep in mind that I am no engineer, so really you shouldn't pay attention to anything I say, but I have a theory. I think the oxidation thing is a red herring. What I really think is going on is that Intel has something going on in the architecture itself that is causing degradation. The microcode update will make no difference over the long term, as it will simply make the issue take longer to manifest. The only "fix" here is to undervolt a brand new CPU, but that obviously will get you nowhere near the advertised speeds. Now obviously Intel cannot tell you that, nor can they do a recall. Their only move here is to attempt to "placate" to buy themselves time until they can come up with a proper fix, not for these CPUs, which I believe are unfixable, but within the next gen CPUs, and in that way hope to sweep it all under the rug. They are caught between a rock and a hard place, since right now they are teetering on the edge of getting through this relatively unscathed and completely destroying confidence in their products, i.e. forcing pretty much everyone towards AMD, which will be a point of no return and bankrupt them, and I am 99% sure they know that.
Yes this is true. NO IMPROVEMNT since Alder Lake, they're just pushing that silicon past its limits to keep up with Zen 4. It's literally breaking down because of their chase of 6ghz and shooting 1.5+V through all the cores.
I'm pretty sure that Gamers Nexus hired a Failure Analysis lab to do a 'postmortem' on one (or more) of the degraded CPUs (sent in by viewers, IIRC), who in turn verified the presence of the oxidation, which occurred due to a fabrication error (as reported by Intel). It's confusing because this oxidation (allegedly) only exists in affected 13th generation CPUs, while both they _and_ many 14th gen chips are *also* being degraded by whatever the 0x129 microcode update is intended to remedy. (It may in fact be a design flaw for all I know -- I'm not an engineer.) The really jacked up part of all this is, *_once_*_ an affected CPU begins to show signs of performance degradation_ -- no matter what the cause is determined to be -- the aforementioned CPU is effectively _toast:_ it can't be reversed or remedied, by a microcode update or anything else. This is why Intel's stumbling around the issue of replacements is so infuriating. A *LOT* of people (including HUGE corporate entities experiencing failure rates approaching *50%* 🫨) know damned well that their CPUs are trashed, while Intel continues to stall and issue vague and conflicting statements.
@@MikeBob2023 Well yes, I saw a report that claimed that oxidation is indeed a thing, limited to a specific batch of CPUs manufactured at a specific plant. Whether it is a limited issue or more widespread, only Intel themselves know. It is possible the CPU GN had was one of those. Or it could be a bigger issue. What I am suggesting is that the oxidation thing is unrelated, i.e. there is an architecture problem quite apart from manufacturing issues. I of course agree with you regarding the microcode. Ask yourself this: If the issue was limited and could be prevented with a code update going forward, why are Intel not just immediately replacing all RMA'd ones, or explicitly stating that they will replace even if undamaged, making dead sure to communicate that they would do so, no questions asked? Could be they are just really terrible at customer service. Or it could be that they know it is a large scale issue and that replacing CPUs will cost them billions of $$$. My money is on the latter. Ultimately it is a PR thing. As I said, Intel CANNOT do a recall. It would bankrupt them immediately. Nor can they (at this specific time) admit to a flaw, since that would effectively do the same. What they are doing is textbook: say as little as possible, do as little as possible, hope for it to sort itself out given enough time.
@@JoeL-xk6bo This has been a thing coming for at least ten years, probably more. For a very long time Intel was the only game in town. Even before Bulldoser AMD simply couldn't compete. Being an effective monopoly, Intel sat on their laurels and neglected to invest properly in R&D and advancing their manufacturing process. After Ryzen they got caught out and are now playing catchup. Again, I am no engineer but I suspect that for the last few gens they have been pushing the silicon to their absolute limits to "fake" performance, just to keep up with AMD. Their process is just not good enough to cope with what they are trying to do with it. If they were to keep things in check to ensure the CPUs will last, I suspect they'd have to throttle them hard, which would of course mean they'd start looking terrible compared to AMD in the performance stakes. That is my theory anyhow. Guess we will find out at some point.
@@siubhan2047 What *_I_* find incomprehensible is that Intel refuses to give the specific date ranges, codes, or the production ranges for the oxidation-affected CPUs. It's as if they're fearful that users will RMA the parts within said ranges once they realize they're using them (and yeah, I know _I_ would). The upshot of this is (as I see it) that Intel is willing to let the blissfully ignorant *remain* ignorant for the sake of saving as much money as they can in 'addressing' this issue. Bloody hell, I say. 🙄
I have a 14900K in a rig I spent $6K on, no 4090 involved. I seem to be blessed with a golden sample. Every critical metric is looking very good, especially the dreaded V-min. My system is stable across the board. Push comes to shove, and my brain box does go tango uniform, I still have my 12900K in reserve in the event of an RMA ordeal. I am on the x129 microcode.
Ive used i9 14900KS for 2 weeks and thats true about the issue.. Crash when iam rendering image in 3Dsmax and Corona Render, BSOD after i give him full load task like rendering in 3D, or i cannot open software like Unreal Engine 5 and D5 Render.. it says error at Unreal and Force close at D5 Render.. i don't know what's wrong but i waited for the Intel driver update so i could running some games and work with this CPU.. My SPECS is i9 14900KS, ROG Z790A, i-game RTX 4080 Super, 64Gigs RAM and running at windows 11 pro.. but still randomly crashes, Ive try different RAM, SSD and downgrade to Windows 10 but still no fix on there.. Ive buy the real license with Corona and D5 and still crashes randomly when i give him full load task.. i don't know if Intel have this issue before i build my rig.. come on Intel 🙄
@@Nopanda_Architect your cpu is damaged . you need to RMA which will give you another defective part . all 13 and 14 gen are bad 65 watt and up. id grab a 12900k and forget about 13 and 14
That's great, My 12700KF & 12900KF are stable htpc/gaming rigs. Spent a lot of time tuning to get there. Great to have a backup. I'm not an expert Nopanda if you're open to Linux testing would see if the crashes still occur there. I've had crashing that occurred in Windows but not Linux in gaming on 12th. I've done the ram swaps, nvme swaps, lowering ram speed to JEDEC (even bought QVL for Z690s), running 2 dims, I did use both Windows 10/11. Question is did degradation occur, and that's possible, if so would RMA. I've had though the same machines that were BSODing on Windows 10/11 are stable on Nobara Linux 39 now 40. Would test everything, if it can't even Linux stably or perform the same Windows task if degradation has occurred more voltage & offset would be necessary to achieve what it used to be able to do normally. I wonder if sometimes the drivers/something conflicts in Windows. I did GPU swaps too 4090 in main rig, also used AMD 7800XT a lot and 7900XTX. In my case I found ecores off better for what games I play/in general stopped game (mostly WoW) from falling onto an e core and crashing.
I bought my 13700K in the Fall of 2022, and I've had no issues. Still, in response to all this, I have not powered it on since early June 2024. I'm waiting to see how the new microcode goes.
Thank you! 🙏🏼 I've been monitoring this Intel CPU debacle closely, and I'm really glad to see you weighing in on the matter. 🤗 I have two Intel CPUs currently in use (an i5-12400 and an i9-13900T), and four others (all brand new) sitting on the shelf (for the builds I'm still acquiring parts for 🙄) -- an *i7-12700T,* an *i9-12900k,* an *i5-13500,* and an *i5-13600k.* The 12th gen parts are probably all okay, and I believe I'm in the clear with my (35W) *i9-13900T* -- I've been running it 12-14 hours a day, _every_ day, since I built this machine in mid-March of last year -- with *_zero_* issues under fairly heavy use -- but I'm waiting for *0x129* to hit all of Intel's board partners' BIOS update pages before proceeding with any additional builds. (And I'm patting myself on the back right now for using ONLY motherboards with a BIOS flashback feature, let me just say. 😇) As for the oxidation issue: I've checked all the date codes on my CPUs and they seem to have been manufactured either before it developed (i.e. the 12th gen chips) or during the last 2 weeks of 2023 (all the others), so I'm crossing my fingers there. 🤞🏼 So for my overall situation, I'm optimistic - but for _you and everyone else_ who's invested in expensive high-end, unlocked 13th/14th gen Intel Core processors -- and are currently getting the runaround from Intel regarding replacements -- I'm pretty damned concerned. The situation doesn't look good (the way I see it) because, for them to 'do the right thing' (assuming they *do* pull their heads out and decide to make things right), Intel's going to have to take a HUGE financial hit. (I've even wondered if the fallout from this mess mightn't result in Xe2 being eventually scuttled. 🤔) Please let us know if/when you hear anything new. 👂🏼 Thanks again. 👍🏼 (Stay safe and be well! 🐱) EDIT: Typo Management 🙄
Scan have offered me a full refund on my 13900k and mobo I bought early last year. I’ve decided to go with the 7950x3D instead of a replacement chip. Now my i9 won’t even pass a single core cinebench test
I hate knowing other consumers/gamers/humans have to deal with scummy behaviour. But, as an ex intel fanboy, intel fanboys had it coming. Writing has been on the wall - that's why I jumped ship! Just saw someone post 5.2 ghz running 253watts on their 14900k(buildzoid video). 253 watts on a CPU is LOONEY! My 5950x does 4.4 running 105W, undervolted!
Very definitely, _yes,_ imo. If you're stuck on an Intel platform (as opposed to having the option of switching over to AMD right away), all the 12th generation Intel CPUs (and the 12900k in particular) are tried & true performers, safer alternatives, _and_ *reliable.* The i9s and i7s *are* power-hungry mofos, mind you, and care should be taken to keep the unlocked SKUs cool under load, but my advice there would be to check your BIOS settings to insure that whoever your motherboard manufacturer is didn't ship it with its _Balls to the Wall_ performance settings enabled. 🤔
My 13600k has been affected as well and I've undervolted it and kept it exceptionally cool since it came out of the box. Great chip before the issues too, very disappointing.
I think this is a defect in the architecture of the 13th and 14th gen cpus. The microcode bios update in my opinion is just a bandage to slow down the cpus from failing . If it was just a micro core issue intel would of released it a long time ago, I mean the 13900k came out almost 2 years ago and their just releasing a patch for ? makes no sense
False it has nothing to do about hardware. It’s the terrible stock bios settings. Were they are pushing 1.5 volts into 2 of their cores. People that naturally tune their CPU’s or undervolt don’t have these issues at all.
The team that made the 12th gen said the ICC was beyond maxed out also ringbus, they left and new team made 13/14 in record time. Not hard to figure out what went wrong lol
@@ZackSNetwork This just isn't true. I've undervolted my CPU by -0.07mV (the most I could get stable). Generally, my voltage never went past 1.53V. It still became unstable after a few months. I also used PL1 = PL2 = 253W, and ICCMax = 307A. Any further undervolting became unstable. The new microcode caps voltages at 1.55V, and mine was always below that.
@@ZackSNetwork no its absolutely the cpu design . the IO is disconnected off the die and is linked to another part that needs more voltage unfortunately that high voltage is killing the IO controller . its a flawed design
Built a new system a while back, Got a 13900KS as it was the best processor at the time. Nothing but problems from day 1, game crashes, instabilities, etc... Dealt with it for a while, eventually it just died, wouldn't boot windows, wouldn't boot Linux off a USB. Took the system to local shop to confirm the dead CPU and yeah that was it. So I bought a 14900K as a replacement. Figured I'd just RMA the 13900KS later. 14900K ran great for 5-6 months and then started having issues as well. Game crashes, instabilities, Eventually it died as well, system would run for a bit and then just power off/reboot. I RMA'd the 13900KS and got a replacement like 5-6 days after I did the RMA. Gotta give Intel credit on that part I guess. Still working with support on the 14900KS, just haven't got around to bios hoops they want me to jump through. Scared to put the 13900KS back in. Kinda waiting to see how things play out with the microcode patch. Running on my 4790K system in the mean time.
New microcode still hitting 1.55v ....1.4v is really pushing the safe spot. 40mv drop is not saving anything but may get them out of warranty in home use servers now will last 3 months not 2
Man that has to be the most sinking feeling when your Intel based PC starts acting squirrely. You should send gamers nexus your CPU, they are collecting them and using a focused ion beam (seriously) to split them open to do a deep dive on the physical issue. 2:38 kitty
I think degradation 13/14th is being slowed people will come out of warranty, idle states are being more actively used (framechasers had an interesting take on it). Have watched a few videos on the subject, don't think it's fixed. The degraded chips still should be RMAed and I believe the voltages on the P cores are still too high (my understanding).
Intel can't even replace them as all current CPUs with the LGA1700 chipset seem to be concerned by those issues. I heard they'll make another CPU supporting that chipset but I don't see them sending those instead :D (assuming they work fine)
the problem is AMD isn't really competing that well, yeah there's the x3d cpus but their performance is really a smoke screen, if you want cpu horse power and good 1% lows then intel has the best solution. Despite intel being a bit of a shady dealer I can see myself upgrading to their next CPU offering on the basis it shows good benchmarks.
in my opinion, its kind of nice that amd is not rushing to compete with intel. sure they are not giving the best performance but whatever the performance they are giving, is rock solid. so I personally feel that its okk if they just stick their pace and keep improving slowly instead of rushing to get more buyers. cuz intel just did that and its a shitshow. and not just with cpu companies, but games as well. how many studios make sequels just to get more money such as ubisoft. so m kind of hoping that amd would stick to improving slowly rather than rushing. and I think they already learned their lession after there last fck up. but thats just my opinion.
Wow you seem to be having the same type of issues that I am. I use Adobe Premiere and I have found out that long GOP footage is a big no-no. Anytime I use long GOP and I am editing a complicated 4K timeline. Consistently crashing and causing me anguish
had my 14900k about a year getting the random spikes to 100C on whatever core for half a second when sitting at the windows desktop doing nothing but core temp running is annoying. To tame these 253-watt cap the power and run a 420 AIO with a push pull 140mm fan x6 and you be a ok temp spikes now only get to 80C which is fine sad a 360 with 6x 120mm fans cant even keep thermals down.
I agree, I think they are trying to buffer customers Sending in their CPUs for RMA. They can't afford and don't have the stock for any of this. They don't have CPUs that will be reliable to give out at this time. But I think it's mostly financial. Intel has been in trouble financially for some time now in my opinion. I have to wonder how much of the issues is from the design level and possibly materials or fab level. The last two I think are much less likely.
I have a 14900K, and I am constantly getting lockups or app/game just closing. I've never OC'd on my own, updated the BIOS to the Asus Z790-E Gaming Wifi with the 0x129 microcode, set to Intel Performance, and still having the same issues. I believe my CPU is damaged, but this wait is driving me insane. Also, there is nothing in the Event Viewer when I experience these issues, which really puzzles me. I've been in contact with Intel for about 2 weeks, and am waiting for a response with the RMA information. Starting to think I am going to have to turn into the Gorilla jumping on the desk.
You need to manually set setting's in your motherboard bios or you will always have problems with these cpu's. Mine's been running strong without issues for almost a year now, I do not want to say it's a user error issue since these cpu's are not stable plug and play without degradation due to shitty mb vendor default bios, but anyone with basic computer knowledge can have these cpu's 100% stable hitting top benchmark numbers under 1.35v v-core without any stability issue's pretty easily.
@joeysuzyjozy I've tried manually setting to Performane and Extreme wattage and amps, still having the issues. I've reset the BIOS, made sure all drivers are current, tested RAM, video (I have an nVidia 4090), using 1200W Corsair Shift. I am at a loss. I believe my CPU is defective. I didn't have these issues until about a month ago.
@@joeysuzyjozy the cpu architecture itself is defective . its IO controller is separate from the die and is connected to another part that requires more voltage . unfortunately the IO controller cannot handle the voltage is eventually fails . no it has never been the mobo venders fault. research will show you are incorrect
@@amdintelxsniperx Everything can be manually set to run smoothly without ever having degradation or issues on the cpu using the mb bios and manually setting everything. Yes, the default cpu microcode is bad and the mb vendor default settings are worse, but that still doesn't change what I previously said above and if you don't know or realize that then I am sorry but you're an amateur.
I have a real aversion towards Intel. they made me angry once (yes that is enough) with their Spectre SW that was only running in US English Windows Systems but threw an error code when trying to run their Program on a PC that was running Windows in German). They corrected it after I opened a support ticket. Since then I never trusted them ever again and they make me still angry. This now is a real debacle. I am glad I run a AMD Ryzen 7 5800X. I do not care it is slower than a 14900K but it is stable and Rock solid.
Your 13900k only clocks at 5MHz so something isn't set up correctly. It's still a k CPU so you just have to set it yourself. Do the update and just make sure it doesn't go above 1.4v and you're safe. and take a look in your bios
intel is taking a divide and conquer approach , what they ought to do is to recall all the chips and replace at no cost instead of asking people to RMA and get rejected and hope your RMA eventually get accepted or do a full refund!
Latest bios didn't do diddly squat for me, and that's because the CPU was doomed from the day i bought it AND INTEL KNEW THIS AND STILL SOLD THEM. They need to be sued, they need to recall these processors and give full refunds to everyone that bought them during a certain time frame and even with this it doesnt help that we now have USELESS z790 motherboards..
Am on 12700KF & 12900KF Alder Lake, I lucked out in not buying Raptor. Spent a lot of time tuning though about a year to be stable. Going AMD next round. I think the microcode will delay degradation but not fix it as is. If it has degraded RMA is the best fix. The voltages seem to be too high (namely the P cores).
@TechLens I don't trust Intel's default settings. I've manually optimized my system using a Gigabyte motherboard profile (optimsed setting). I've applied the following settings: IETU with a -0.050v undervolt, AVX2 offset of 5.0x, Turbo Boost Power Max set to 140W for 128 seconds, all active cores at 53x multiplier. Under load, the voltage never exceeds 1.414v and there's no thermal throttling. I get a sore of 4004 on cinebench R23. No fail in the intel stress test all pass. If i try to set the IA VR Valtage Limit to 1400 by current EDP limit is thermal throttling when idel it the same if i dont set it and use the new SAFE LOL defualt settings. Any ideas? BTW if i you the new mirocode bios update it worse LOL Cry cry...
Recently i made PC with intel i7 4700k CPU with msi z790 project zero motherboard my CPU crashed after 2 hours of usage. And no display is there till now. This is the very expensive PC build i made but in return i am very unhappy with intel .... (From INDIA)
Thank God you got SOlution #2 right.. But theywill never do it unless their feet are held to the fire and ... BOYCOT ALL FUTURE PROCESSORS UNLESS THEY CREATE A DEFECT FREE BATCH of 14900Ks to hand out to all with issues and do a full recall!
I always find it funny when people shit on the 9000 chips from AMD. If intel came out with the 13900k at 350w and then the 14900k at 45% less wattage but with the same performance they would yell at the sky about how intel is back baby. AMD does it and people shit on them ....somehow. You want to make sure this doesnt ever happen again? you follow AMD's lead and lower CPU power consumption while letting the overclockers do what they do best. Come out with a 100% rock solid product and then let OC'ers run with it.
over the last two years with my 13900kf I had progressive performance degradation and blamed it on windows or software, until recently when I started to get frequent game crashes and BSOD. turns out my performance is now equivalent to a ryzen 5700x when and if it even works without crashing. Microcode update madenothing for me except reduce the performance even more
Degradation does not impact performance. It effects how much voltage is required to keep the chip stable. If the chip is slowing down something else is at play.
the i9 is a Enthusiast CPU product and is top tier for programmers , streamers and PC pro,s , when someone buys a i9 , they ussaully know how too build and or configure a PC and optimize it and reflash their bios or manually enter the settings --> in bios too fix the issue with Ai bio,s automatically giving the i9,s too much voltage and a failed overclock which it isnt supposed too do at all , power limits should be set too PL1-125 and PL2 253 and Core voltage while idle 1.0v and core voltage while boosted 1.2v , average gamers ussaully use i5 and i7,s ... you can manually press and hold DELETE or F12 on startup too enter Bios and enter the correct Intel Spec power limits and voltages or update bios too fix the issue causing crashes .. the issue is auto overclock failing and causing crashes ... and actaully Intel has had alot of SCAMMERs sending in i3 12100 and i3 13100 for warrenty with re silk screened too look like i9,s !!!! so they refuse too replacce those ones as their not geniune intel core i9,s .. scammers trying too get free i9,s ... not everyone is doing that but alot have ..
lock the P cores to whatever clock speed 1.3 Volts can deliver. The cpu will run for years to come. Don't wait for scam microcode updates. You have an unlocked chip on a Z mobo. Never rely on auto settings ever.
intels microcode pre 125 didnt really lower multicore speed. Intel's 125 microcode lower multicore performance by around 5%. Intel's 129 (newest as of mid aug.) doesn't lower performance at all but it also seems to THROW MORE VOLTAGE AT THE FUCKING CHIP (Tech Yes City newest video today). by making their chips hotter they are hoping it throttles by heat because voltage becomes more of an issue
Intel doesn’t care , because the DIY market is a very small part of their sales. They even sold way more this year than last. OEM is the real money and the average user has no idea of the problems.
I have a i7 13700k and since i bought it i noticed it was voltage hungry when turbo was turned on ( Default setting Asus Z690 plus ) Default setting will turn on turbo boost , My cpu runs at 5300 mhz ( @ Turbo default speed )and is pulling 1.45v ( Which I am told is really bad for cpu )so in short I have to leave my turbo turned off since I updated the bios a few days ago . I have downloaded the new bios and I still needed to undervolt my cpu.
Trying to get a replacement for my 1 year 5 month old i9-13900k and you're right about Intel Customer Support acting like we're doing something wrong or that we should be all computer pros and figure out how to fix their failing products, I've been waiting for a week just to hear back from the person who's supposed to be helping me with my i9-13900k problem and I definitely don't want to call and be on hold for hours at a time with those same results.
the i9 is a Enthusiast CPU product and is top tier for programmers , streamers and PC pro,s , when someone buys a i9 , they ussaully know how too build and or configure a PC and optimize it and reflash their bios or manually enter the settings --> in bios too fix the issue with Ai bio,s automatically giving the i9,s too much voltage and a failed overclock which it isnt supposed too do at all , power limits should be set too PL1-125 and PL2 253 and Core voltage while idle 1.0v and core voltage while boosted 1.2v , average gamers ussaully use i5 and i7,s ... you can manually press and hold DELETE or F12 on startup too enter Bios and enter the correct Intel Spec power limits and voltages or update bios too fix the issue causing crashes .. the issue is auto overclock failing and causing crashes ... and actaully Intel has had alot of SCAMMERs sending in i3 12100 and i3 13100 for warrenty with re silk screened too look like i9,s !!!! so they refuse too replacce those ones as their not geniune intel core i9,s .. scammers trying too get free i9,s ... not everyone is doing that but alot have ..
you have different way's to try to fix this by your hand set all 4 svid vcore voltage settings to the same voltage: my 13700kf run with 5.5 ghz + first two cpu cores + 1 5.6 ghz ring 5.0 ghz i have to set all four svid vcore voltage settings to 1.35 voltage if i set it to 1.34 voltage or deeper i have the same problems as many other guys closing games blue screens this means the cpu need the minimum of the 1.35 on all four settings in the bios to run stable to high undervolting create the same problems as to high overvolting over longtime it looks for me over 80% of the intel 13. and 14. gen cpu user specific on i7 and i9 have no idea how to tune the k versions correct and give intel the fault for what cpu input voltage for 17 and i9 should be around 1.75 and 1.85 voltage .
Maybe, just maybe - one should be familiar with the specifications and not push things so far. What I see is many people blaming Intel for what Asus (and others) did as well as their own failure to be reasonable in overclocking. Thermal throttling is the equivalent of auto breaking in crash avoidance. It's not intended to be used on a regular basis nor as a substitute for good judgement. I suspect had people treated 80°C as the absolute maximum, there would be no controversy. I don't know your personal story, but the question must be asked "Why is it that we don't hear businesses reporting this? Why is it that it is gamers - most often - tweakers...? Too much correlation to call it coincidence. There's an old expression "Sailing too close to the wind." Best wishes in resolving any problems you may be having.
FYI some of these CPUs aren't covered by Intel's warranty, only the resellers', so if you bought a "Tray" Intel CPU, you're buying AMD next time. On Intel's "help" page for this issue, they link to a 200 page technical manual for some of the settings, surely these people are stewards in hell?
So this is happening to me, my game will randomly crush, when I use chrome it will crash or sometime say aw snap try reload this page. This is driving my crazy I just build this pc not a 5month ago with i9 14900k
Intel doesn’t have the same policy when it comes to return bad products or getting a refund. Not on all its markets. There are a lot of third party resellers who sells Intels CPUs or computers. Intel simply cannot say bring your faulty CPU wherever you are in this world. Reviewers are usually mistake the US market with everything else. My reseller told me that he can’t do nothing unless my COU drops under 3.2 ghz that is its core speed guaranteed by Intel. The speed of 6.0 GHz is .. UP TO and it spends on a lot of variables. And no one on my market guarantees variables 😂
I waited 10 years to build another pc only to go with a 13700k. Every time I have played a game it has crashed. The machine just feels unresponsive at times too. Intel can eat one, never buying them again unless used.
I think it's a hardware-level issue and not a software level... it definitely fucked inside the billions of transistors or pipelines fuckery.. it's irreversible.
Using the fastest and th hottest chip is never a recipe for longevity. Its not call the bleeding edge for nothing. Glad I went lower power, air cooled, and AMD.
I'm wondering when i5's are going to start crapping out? I've got a 13600k and the last couple months I've started to notice stutters in work related tasks. Stuff that shouldn't have issues like filling out a spreadsheet or questionaire, or when I have two windows open at once on the same screen. Things that should be no problem for that cpu. It's not happening all the time, but it's making me wonder if it's starting to degrade. One thing for sure, is it's going to be my last Intel cpu. I'm already saving up to switch my pc over to AMD
i5's already are dying, just at a lower rate. the 13600K and 14600K have definitely been dying in decent numbers too. 14600K especially. This is actually not new, because intel 11th gen had the same problems, people gave intel grace on that and overlooked it as growing pains finally moving from Skylake refreshes. That was actually a sign that their new architecture was shit. Their next gen cpu/gpu has been shit.
@@epeksergastis It's stupid that we have to do that just to make sure the cpu doesn't die.........right away. It's like having a car that works as long as you stay under 80Km/h. Intel really shit the bed
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How does Intel's handling of this situation sit with you?
first off i am only aware of MSI motherboards having the Intel microcode patch too bring the CPU back too specs instead of OVERCLOCKED straight out the box with too much voltage !!! also too check you have the patch applied you go into BIO,s and power limits and PL1 should be 125watts and PL2 should be 253watts and core voltage should be idle 1.0v and boost 1.2v ... i dont think you got the microcode update and you have a bad CPU cooler block mount , don't use carbon pads , their garbage . use thermal paste and a Thermalright retention bracket for 12/13/14 gen Intel .. and if the settings ive just given you are not applied in your bios then you do not have the microcode update that make the voltages Stock intel and your still running the OC bios which is causing issues ..
I remain unimpressed by what I've seen from Intel regarding these issues thus far: stonewalling, stealth edits, and finger pointing. (One might almost get the idea that they're running a Presidential campaign. 🤔)
It's just a patch to keep the power spikes down to a minimum so chips degrade slower until those warranties run out and they won't have to replace all of them.
Yep
the increase voltages in other things while dropping vcore
Exactly, it's basically a band aid over a bullet hole
run the chips at 1.5v+ and warranty the chip as soon as instability occurs. It's yuour right to get a chip with the performance advertised.
Sad and likely correct.
My response to Intel:
I'm buying AMD from now on.
(This scandal better create an new industry standard on how chips are screened and tested for defects moving forward; until that happens I no longer trust Intel to do the right thing).
Hell, even AMD has issues but they're the lesser of two... inconveniences.
Same. It took me a year between settings and BIOS updates to get both 12700KF & 12900KF fully stable (even left Windows for Linux, Nobara 40 now was 39). I don't even have the 13th/14th issue though had I spent more money I could have had it. 1 gen of support, it's a new low. 12400F also will stay untouched. Essentially 1 gen of stability this time around.
Intel doesn't seem to care that they're ruining their reputation. I'm going AMD on my next build.
Intel doesn't care about a few geeks talking among themselves. True story.
100%
@@gungagalunga9040 Those few geeks are the enthusiasts who buy Intel CPUs. They can’t afford not to care.
@iLegionaire3755 yeah well intel is just gonna ignore them
@@gungagalunga9040 Businesses actually care if they are investing in cpu's that would cause their operations to slow down or even halt due to these issues. And telling other people are geeks when you're watching a tech channel is peak hypocrisy. Geeks are specialists at what they are interested in and people will listen to them because they know so much about a given topic. Given how much amd's market share has been growing and intel has been going through a downhill trend, they should actually worry.
Permanent damage already. Microcode update ain't saving it.
Yep, microcode patch only fixes for new users basically or users without problem.
@@samwaller4092 Psst, spoiler alert, it isn't. The voltages are still too high and they are still gonna degrade. Marginally slower, but no big change. If they want to run them safe they would have to go lower, run them at around 1,3v. that means say goodbye to 6Ghz singlecore turbo, or any high turbos above 5Ghz in general. They do not want to do that so we have this mess.
@@Lady_ZenithIn other words, buy the 7800X3D problem solved lmao. Intel is a joke now.
time for him to buy a new replacement cpu to fix the problem muhahahahahahahaha or rma his cpu if it's still on warranty
4:36 One of the problems you show with your voltage graph is it is the average. The problem happens because the CPU requests a large spike of voltage for a very short period. The average hides those spikes. The problem is that those repeated spikes damage parts of the core and you get silicon degradation.
The big issue people are having is that this microcode will not solve the problem. If you have damage to your CPU from the voltage spikes, it is irreversible. This microcode update may prevent it from happening, but if there is degradation it can't fix this because it's physical damage. Just like the Pentium floating point problem, intel is not going to have a recall. They will not refund your money. And they will keep selling chips. NEVER buy buy used or second hand intel CPU's because you don't know what you're going to get. There will be a bunch of people selling working but bad chips.
Yeah used to be that used Intel CPU was the safe choice, bought plenty 2nd gen to 8th gen used and OCed them no problem, running a 5.1Ghz OC on my 9900k for 4+ years with no problems but you're rights about 13th and 14th gen I won't be buying any of those used unless I can test before buying or I know it's from someone that manually tuned their system.
TL very disappointed that you ran your 4000$ PC at stock bios settings, expected you to tune your PC.
This is really depressing because I just purchased a $3k laptop with a 14k chip and I'm already experiencing these issues
EU countries have good consumer protection laws. You should be able to have it repaired or replaced.
This one s why I am not getting the Lenovo legion
if u spent $3k on a laptop u deserve to be ripped off
@@cloudnine5651 all depend on what the use of this laptop... Maybe he need it for work
@@cloudnine5651Nah bro, nobody should get defective CPUs independently if they are in laptops or desktops
I'm glad I'm not a content creation guy who needed an Intel cpu, but just a gamer. My Ryzen 7 7800X3D has been probably the best cpu purchase I've made and looks to be for a few years more. Sorry, Intel consumers😕
_Save one for me!_
(Once I'm done with my current round of builds) I'm moving *back* to Team Red. (The last AMD CPU I used in a build of mine was a _Phenom II X6 1055T._ 😛)
I am glad I went with the 12900KF. I am not having any issues and by the time I need to upgrade Intel will be on 16th gen or more. I swore off AMD after the FX8350 Black was such a letdown. I will probably never go back to team RED.
My best friend at work went that route, while I went with Intel. His system is fantastic.
I started using the 7800x3d on my work pcs. Keeps my office cooler, uses less energy, has been very stable so far. I have swapped almost every one of my kids pcs over to it. Fantastic cpu. You can cool it with a silver soul 135 just as well as a noctua.
@charlesg5085 Yeah, you could cool it with a Wraith Prism cpu cooler if you really wanted to, lol. I've got mine cooled with an aio and a -30mhz boost offset, max temp of 75. I want it to last.
Good thing I got the service plan with my processor at Micro Center. Going to return it and get a free upgrade to a 9950x or 9950X3d when they come out later this year.
@@traingp7 feels good having a micro center close by. Micro center is goated
Good call waiting for Zen 5 X3D! Zen 5 regular CPUs in my opinion won't come close to Zen 5 X3D!
Micro Center just kicks ass. Always superior to Best Buy.
I strongly believe that those 900 series are actually 700 series, but they got greedy and pushed those chips to perform as 900 by using some kind of voltage tricks that are currently failing, and they blamed it as bug. Now they're in a very difficult situation if they couldn't find a way to keep them run stable as 900 specs, they would have to revert them back to 700 specs and legal issues would probably hit them very hard.
Bit this issue is happening on server boards too...
Those are much better made and certified
This is such a low IQ take, the underlying architecture is totally different please see level1techs video to understand. And do you think Amd would dare do this is the current environment with what is happening to intel is laughable 😂
technically it’s the other way around, all i7s and i5 k series are i9s that have failed, it’s called binning
imagine buying a proccesor that costs more than my pc only to broke itself
same happend to me XD...
Just lock all your cores and lower your vcore and offset, and lower your cpu power to 253 watts. Problem solved, you dont need the micro code update as many others have stated it only prolongs the degradation by forcing longer idle states, but when the cpu is pushed hard those 2 cores will still ramp up, and it will shove more than 1.4+ volts into the cores, and kill the cpu overtime.
Man this shit is confusing. I was just gonna update the bios
@@RP-16 Yeah, I understand. I too wish you could just plug and play with the cpu like with previous generations, and not have to worry about the cpu degrading, or having to manually tune it to save it, but this is where we are at now.
It is either tune it yourself or do the bios update, and prolong the inevitable of the cpu degrading in a few years time.
@@TheCzar1 did the update and my game just doesn’t run as good as it did a few weeks ago before the crashes and freezes started. My pc is cooked
I picked intel performance, should I do extreme?
@@RP-16 I wouldn't even bother with the Intel profile.
I would just manually go into the bios and lock all the cores to the real speed of the cpu.
For example, if you have a 13900ks or 14900k, lock all the cores to 56 (5.6 ghz), then set the vcore to 1.345v with a negative offset starting at -75 and working your way up if you need more of an offset.
You want to keep the voltage below 1.35v at all times.
Also, if you have Windows 11 you have to turn off "core isolation" as it will override any vcore voltage and offset that you set.
Also, limit the cpu power to 253 watts max.
If your cpu is already degraded then send it into Intel and once you get the new one tune it right away. Hope this helped.
remember CPU''s would outlast motherboards?
i bet pepperidge farm remembers
What pisses me off is that IF my 13900k blows up, what the hell am I gonna replace it with? Unless Intel actually fixes the problem on a new chip, I'm in the same boat, so I'd have to replace my $1000 mobo as well!!! So far, luckily, I've seen no issues, but I've been running it stock and haven't had too much time to play with OC it yet, thank god! I've installed the fix, but still #$%! you Intel.... 😡
The most importance is any chance that the coming 15th gen CPU has issue (degradation , freeze during high load) or not . If I am not sure I will jump ship to AMD , I dont have time to waste , just buy AMD and good to go.
I'm jumping back to AMD next build. I spent a lot of time tuning over the past year to get 12700KF & 12900KF rigs stable. I don't think it was worth the cost savings though both are great htpcs/gaming rigs (perhaps a 7800X3D would have just been less hassle). The experience to get there was bad though, countless Windows 10/11 fresh installs, ram swaps (still not getting QVL promised). The last straw was , just went full (no dual boot anymore) Nobara 39 now 40 fresh installs. My Intel experience with stability did get worse over time and I feel on the one hand I may have blamed the 7800XT & 7900XTX for crashing in a few games . When even the 4090 was having issues, I think some of those were just Intel issues. Am e cores off, running decently conservative settings on the Z690s. My friend I helped with his 5800X build in 2020 has 0 issues. Even if a future sale exists I'm not sure it's worth saving a small amount of money to have to troubleshoot just to be stable. I haven't played much with 12400F, still have that B760M from the original builds. I feel like 9600K and 12th gen moreso are the most time I have ever spent on BIOS settings. Everything is updated and I do like some learning/tinkering but I feel like never again if I can help things. It probably wasn't Windows or AMD drivers fault though any Alder Lake issues, oddly enough the AMD drivers/machines were stable on Linux. I think the theory about the IO moving for 13th/14th that they made it worse is interesting. I could stay on these machines a good 2-3 years and be happy now, but I don't think I would build them again.
There ain't gonna be 15th gen, they are calling it intel ultra X naming. Msi claw already has the ultra 5 and ultra 7 APU's
Arrow Lake will be unaffected. It's years in the making unlike Raptor trash lake.
Im surprised you are hoping 15th gen will be better! do you like suffering?
@@elizabethiradukunda1950 if you understand what Raptor's problem is you do would be assured Arrow will be fine.
For the first part if my life i was all intel, when it came to cpu, after all i had a pentium e5500, e8400 , after that went to an i7 6700k , than to 8700k.
But i kept track with AMD stuff.Than they released the 3000 series and the core doubled again to 16c/32th as well as the ipc. At this point i decided to get an AMD processor, the ryzen 3600 , which i soon upgraded to ryzen 3700x and in 2022 i got a ryzen 5900X, which at 1440p was perfect along an rx 6800xt.
But i wanted the best for once and a month ago i got the ryzen 7800x3d and a rx 7900xtx. I have yet to test the difference, but what's certain is that i won't be upgrading anytime soon or at least untill i actually have to or there's a noticeable increase in IPC and cores per CCD along with 3d Cache. Now i'm all AMD and i'm glad i made the switch.
Same. All AMD, 5800x3D and 7900xtx nitro+. Been building PCs since my teen years and this is the most satisfying build I've made so far.
@@Greenalex89 Same AMD 5950x, Sapphire 6700xt. Building pcs 30 years, best rig yet. Intel screwed the pooch, I had the original Pentium 60 with FPU and was never compensated. I've also have Nvidia chips with substrate issues in laptops. Both times they wriggled out of it until the machines were out of warranty, Intel will do the same now.
you're thowing too much money on computers man...
Half AMD :) 5800x OC 4,7all core + rtx 4070 the pc runs flawless !!!
I feel like Intel not only has to flawlessly refund buyers without any further issues whatsoever, but also drop a new tech bomb, issue free high value CPU to regain their position, at least for the small gaming segment.
I don't think the big industry gives 2 shits about the brand. They have contracts and make their calculations for investments. If those run out and new purchases need to be made, they start the same procedure, based on numbers.
If you have problems with this platform RMA the processor, microcode updates will just delay the inevitable
I’ve personally been on Ryzen since Ryzen 2000 series CPUs till AM5 (now) and simply undervolt or used curve optimiser for all my CPUs 💪😇👍.
I used to overclock back in the mid-late 90’s but in recent times prefer undervolts as I’ve been building ITX PCs since intel 3770k and love sff designs 😱🤩🥳
I dipped after the 8700k/7980XE, bought a 1950x then 3950x and now a 7950x. Nothing to do with brand loyalty for me, Intel 18 core cost me $3500 while AMD offered me 16 cores for $1200 which performed better with reduced power consumption. I really don't know why anybody would buy an Intel processor for anything? Adobe? Does it really matter saving a minute off your render? I can play Robocop Rogue City, run an Arch VM, render a 4k video, watch a podcast or film on my other panel all at the same time, 14900k can't do that. 7800x3D for gaming and 7950x or Threadripper for power users, Intel is simply not the best choice not even close. Sorry this has happened though but I saw the potential issues when they started with this big core little core crapola.
How hard can it he to replace motherboard and COU to AMD? I don'tt understand
Always had Intel heavily overclocked in my gaming systems. I have a 8700K that is running rock solid on 5.4Ghz (base 3.6Ghz) for over 4 years now, which is amazing. But this debacle brought me over to AMD.
Overclocking is a complete waste of time and money. All it does is risk voiding your warranty and shorten the life of your parts. When there is a genuine manufacturing defect you will be out of luck because you overclocked.
I bought my i9 13900K in January 2023.In October 2023 starts crashing in games and BSOD.Then i undervolt it
and crashing stops.Update to the latest bios (not the August one yet).Now CPU gets high temps on cores 0,1,2,18,and 19.
I have 360 AIO and 8 vents in a big tower case.I tried RMA ,but Intel denied it and send me the chart for setting the correct
parameters in bios.Did that but problems stays.I will try through the seller of CPU to RMA again.I don't have high hopes,
bcs i'm from EU.
When i run cinebench or similar stress tests,temps are normal for this CPU,but when i watch yt video in full screen and
move mouse,the above mentioned cores go crazy on temps.
dump the 13 and 14 and go back to 12th gen
Same with me, just sending me bogus parameters instead of a working chip (3 months old now). Conflicting parameters too. They, after a week, first provided me with values I asked for and some more, but when applied my 14700k performance drops for 35%. Main culprits for nerfing are: eTVB = Enabled, TVB voltage = Enabled, CEP = Enabled.
But then, the same day, shortly after first the email with nerfing parameters, Intel sends me another email that says I should set Intel defaults... and to contact motherboard manufacturer.
do remember intel gen13 and gen 14 CPU also have an oxidation issue that is separate from the over voltage issue. The oxidation issue probably continued to damage the CPU after you solved the over voltage issue. Your CPU is dying.
just sue them. they have to fulfil the RMA. they are in troubled waters and most likely to have a class action lawsuit over this. thousands and thousands of companies use their chips and are failing which means losing profits and business because of hardware failure effecting their operations. they will not only be sued for the hardware but potential losses because of these chips. i have no idea why they think they are going to be able to pay a penalty when there is going to be an army of businesses and corporations that will be demanding they make up the losses through a lawsuit. intel did the dumbest reaction they could have followed through with. whoever made the move to hide it and come up with a BS non fixer should immediately step down for ruining a huge chunk of their reputation. They were well aware of the problems before they shipped them to sale but went ahead and sent them for sale. it was intentional to make a dollar and probably one of the worst business decisions made in recent years.
I bought my i9 13900kf in october 2023, until this day never had any issues.. I tried all of the tests people have said the 13th gen i9 shits it self at cinebench, prime95, black myth wukong benchmark tool etc etc and I never had any issues with the cpu, my cpu never even went above 1.48v.
I guess I am good..
I noticed this problem a year ago and promptly switched to AMD 7950x3d.
no it's not as fast but it's rock solid.
no more crashing.
that cpu is beast master
Yeah well everyone can't afford to throw out their $400 or up mb because when I bought my Intel cpu AMD chips were catching fire so I went with Intel, not everyone has a crystal ball on hand.
@@EddieMcclanahan you mean a few on a specific mobo that was addmitid to be the mobo fault and where amd said the same day that it would replace any damaged chip? Vs intell hiding ww2 gens of bad chips? I would agree ridenyour setup till it dies but if you defend intell or buy thier products again you deserve the issues you get.
@@mddunlap03 And not all 13/14900k CPUs are degrading either. This story started from a company using Intels highest boosting CPUs for their game servers, and then wonder why the CPUs are crashing.
Every server grade CPU has been a limited to low boost clocks for a reason, it’s for heat and longevity, but for some reason this company decided to use CPUs that boost to 6ghz in all their server racks and are stunned they’re having problems.
Pueget also stated their AMD CPUs were crashing and having more RMAs than their Intel CPUs but nobody wants to talk about that 😂
@@EddieMcclanahan asus admitted to the issue themselves and amd gave new cpus unlike intel
Despite firing 15k employees and recent CPU woes Intel must be doing alright overall as Pat Gelsingers yearly remuneration increased 45% to $16.86 million in 2023.
Its a sales and marketing company now, that occasionally throws a bone to engineering and research. Thats why they are in trouble, 15+ years of under investment in R&D. Pats unlikely to be able to fix it, I suspect they fired 15,000 engineers and not sales and marketing gimps.
I enjoy his bible quotes.
Done with Intel,keeping my MSI prebuilt with core 17 13700KS,but I just built a Ryzen 7 7800X3D to replace it as my main computer
Smart move.
Intel acting like your typical gaslighting, cheating GF 😂
Keep in mind that I am no engineer, so really you shouldn't pay attention to anything I say, but I have a theory. I think the oxidation thing is a red herring. What I really think is going on is that Intel has something going on in the architecture itself that is causing degradation. The microcode update will make no difference over the long term, as it will simply make the issue take longer to manifest. The only "fix" here is to undervolt a brand new CPU, but that obviously will get you nowhere near the advertised speeds. Now obviously Intel cannot tell you that, nor can they do a recall. Their only move here is to attempt to "placate" to buy themselves time until they can come up with a proper fix, not for these CPUs, which I believe are unfixable, but within the next gen CPUs, and in that way hope to sweep it all under the rug. They are caught between a rock and a hard place, since right now they are teetering on the edge of getting through this relatively unscathed and completely destroying confidence in their products, i.e. forcing pretty much everyone towards AMD, which will be a point of no return and bankrupt them, and I am 99% sure they know that.
Yes this is true. NO IMPROVEMNT since Alder Lake, they're just pushing that silicon past its limits to keep up with Zen 4. It's literally breaking down because of their chase of 6ghz and shooting 1.5+V through all the cores.
I'm pretty sure that Gamers Nexus hired a Failure Analysis lab to do a 'postmortem' on one (or more) of the degraded CPUs (sent in by viewers, IIRC), who in turn verified the presence of the oxidation, which occurred due to a fabrication error (as reported by Intel).
It's confusing because this oxidation (allegedly) only exists in affected 13th generation CPUs, while both they _and_ many 14th gen chips are *also* being degraded by whatever the 0x129 microcode update is intended to remedy. (It may in fact be a design flaw for all I know -- I'm not an engineer.)
The really jacked up part of all this is, *_once_*_ an affected CPU begins to show signs of performance degradation_ -- no matter what the cause is determined to be -- the aforementioned CPU is effectively _toast:_ it can't be reversed or remedied, by a microcode update or anything else.
This is why Intel's stumbling around the issue of replacements is so infuriating. A *LOT* of people (including HUGE corporate entities experiencing failure rates approaching *50%* 🫨) know damned well that their CPUs are trashed, while Intel continues to stall and issue vague and conflicting statements.
@@MikeBob2023 Well yes, I saw a report that claimed that oxidation is indeed a thing, limited to a specific batch of CPUs manufactured at a specific plant. Whether it is a limited issue or more widespread, only Intel themselves know. It is possible the CPU GN had was one of those. Or it could be a bigger issue. What I am suggesting is that the oxidation thing is unrelated, i.e. there is an architecture problem quite apart from manufacturing issues. I of course agree with you regarding the microcode. Ask yourself this: If the issue was limited and could be prevented with a code update going forward, why are Intel not just immediately replacing all RMA'd ones, or explicitly stating that they will replace even if undamaged, making dead sure to communicate that they would do so, no questions asked? Could be they are just really terrible at customer service. Or it could be that they know it is a large scale issue and that replacing CPUs will cost them billions of $$$. My money is on the latter. Ultimately it is a PR thing. As I said, Intel CANNOT do a recall. It would bankrupt them immediately. Nor can they (at this specific time) admit to a flaw, since that would effectively do the same. What they are doing is textbook: say as little as possible, do as little as possible, hope for it to sort itself out given enough time.
@@JoeL-xk6bo This has been a thing coming for at least ten years, probably more. For a very long time Intel was the only game in town. Even before Bulldoser AMD simply couldn't compete. Being an effective monopoly, Intel sat on their laurels and neglected to invest properly in R&D and advancing their manufacturing process. After Ryzen they got caught out and are now playing catchup. Again, I am no engineer but I suspect that for the last few gens they have been pushing the silicon to their absolute limits to "fake" performance, just to keep up with AMD. Their process is just not good enough to cope with what they are trying to do with it. If they were to keep things in check to ensure the CPUs will last, I suspect they'd have to throttle them hard, which would of course mean they'd start looking terrible compared to AMD in the performance stakes. That is my theory anyhow. Guess we will find out at some point.
@@siubhan2047 What *_I_* find incomprehensible is that Intel refuses to give the specific date ranges, codes, or the production ranges for the oxidation-affected CPUs. It's as if they're fearful that users will RMA the parts within said ranges once they realize they're using them (and yeah, I know _I_ would). The upshot of this is (as I see it) that Intel is willing to let the blissfully ignorant *remain* ignorant for the sake of saving as much money as they can in 'addressing' this issue.
Bloody hell, I say. 🙄
I have a 14900K in a rig I spent $6K on, no 4090 involved. I seem to be blessed with a golden sample. Every critical metric is looking very good, especially the dreaded V-min. My system is stable across the board. Push comes to shove, and my brain box does go tango uniform, I still have my 12900K in reserve in the event of an RMA ordeal. I am on the x129 microcode.
Ive used i9 14900KS for 2 weeks and thats true about the issue.. Crash when iam rendering image in 3Dsmax and Corona Render, BSOD after i give him full load task like rendering in 3D, or i cannot open software like Unreal Engine 5 and D5 Render.. it says error at Unreal and Force close at D5 Render.. i don't know what's wrong but i waited for the Intel driver update so i could running some games and work with this CPU.. My SPECS is i9 14900KS, ROG Z790A, i-game RTX 4080 Super, 64Gigs RAM and running at windows 11 pro.. but still randomly crashes, Ive try different RAM, SSD and downgrade to Windows 10 but still no fix on there.. Ive buy the real license with Corona and D5 and still crashes randomly when i give him full load task.. i don't know if Intel have this issue before i build my rig.. come on Intel 🙄
@@Nopanda_Architectturn off cstates lower pl1/pl2 power limit (read what they should be) emm offsetcore undervolt and come back to us.
@@Nopanda_Architect your cpu is damaged . you need to RMA which will give you another defective part . all 13 and 14 gen are bad 65 watt and up. id grab a 12900k and forget about 13 and 14
That's great, My 12700KF & 12900KF are stable htpc/gaming rigs. Spent a lot of time tuning to get there. Great to have a backup. I'm not an expert Nopanda if you're open to Linux testing would see if the crashes still occur there. I've had crashing that occurred in Windows but not Linux in gaming on 12th. I've done the ram swaps, nvme swaps, lowering ram speed to JEDEC (even bought QVL for Z690s), running 2 dims, I did use both Windows 10/11. Question is did degradation occur, and that's possible, if so would RMA. I've had though the same machines that were BSODing on Windows 10/11 are stable on Nobara Linux 39 now 40. Would test everything, if it can't even Linux stably or perform the same Windows task if degradation has occurred more voltage & offset would be necessary to achieve what it used to be able to do normally. I wonder if sometimes the drivers/something conflicts in Windows. I did GPU swaps too 4090 in main rig, also used AMD 7800XT a lot and 7900XTX. In my case I found ecores off better for what games I play/in general stopped game (mostly WoW) from falling onto an e core and crashing.
lock the cores to all core boost and keep the Voltage around 1.3 Volts. Don't let it degrade man with crap auto settings
Hey Tech! What fans are those in your case? they look amazing!
I bought my 13700K in the Fall of 2022, and I've had no issues. Still, in response to all this, I have not powered it on since early June 2024. I'm waiting to see how the new microcode goes.
Thank you! 🙏🏼
I've been monitoring this Intel CPU debacle closely, and I'm really glad to see you weighing in on the matter. 🤗
I have two Intel CPUs currently in use (an i5-12400 and an i9-13900T), and four others (all brand new) sitting on the shelf (for the builds I'm still acquiring parts for 🙄) -- an *i7-12700T,* an *i9-12900k,* an *i5-13500,* and an *i5-13600k.*
The 12th gen parts are probably all okay, and I believe I'm in the clear with my (35W) *i9-13900T* -- I've been running it 12-14 hours a day, _every_ day, since I built this machine in mid-March of last year -- with *_zero_* issues under fairly heavy use -- but I'm waiting for *0x129* to hit all of Intel's board partners' BIOS update pages before proceeding with any additional builds. (And I'm patting myself on the back right now for using ONLY motherboards with a BIOS flashback feature, let me just say. 😇)
As for the oxidation issue: I've checked all the date codes on my CPUs and they seem to have been manufactured either before it developed (i.e. the 12th gen chips) or during the last 2 weeks of 2023 (all the others), so I'm crossing my fingers there. 🤞🏼
So for my overall situation, I'm optimistic - but for _you and everyone else_ who's invested in expensive high-end, unlocked 13th/14th gen Intel Core processors -- and are currently getting the runaround from Intel regarding replacements -- I'm pretty damned concerned. The situation doesn't look good (the way I see it) because, for them to 'do the right thing' (assuming they *do* pull their heads out and decide to make things right), Intel's going to have to take a HUGE financial hit. (I've even wondered if the fallout from this mess mightn't result in Xe2 being eventually scuttled. 🤔)
Please let us know if/when you hear anything new. 👂🏼
Thanks again. 👍🏼
(Stay safe and be well! 🐱)
EDIT: Typo Management 🙄
2 years extra warranty. Not much. This is a disaster.
It's enough to run out those warranties though, by slowing degradation down.
@@EddieMcclanahan True
Scan have offered me a full refund on my 13900k and mobo I bought early last year. I’ve decided to go with the 7950x3D instead of a replacement chip. Now my i9 won’t even pass a single core cinebench test
Did you have extra coverage or is that solely down to manufacturer warranty?
I hate knowing other consumers/gamers/humans have to deal with scummy behaviour.
But, as an ex intel fanboy, intel fanboys had it coming. Writing has been on the wall - that's why I jumped ship!
Just saw someone post 5.2 ghz running 253watts on their 14900k(buildzoid video). 253 watts on a CPU is LOONEY! My 5950x does 4.4 running 105W, undervolted!
200w+ parts are indeed insane for 99% the market, that includes GPUs, people need to get their head straight.
Yeah they made me feel like a fool for giving them my business. I am doing an RMA now and cutting my ties with Intel.
Same here
*_Preach it!_* 📣📣📣
Is it a better idea to switch to 12900K rather than running a 14900K on a Z790 board with Intel's new microcode for the long run?
Very definitely, _yes,_ imo.
If you're stuck on an Intel platform (as opposed to having the option of switching over to AMD right away), all the 12th generation Intel CPUs (and the 12900k in particular) are tried & true performers, safer alternatives, _and_ *reliable.*
The i9s and i7s *are* power-hungry mofos, mind you, and care should be taken to keep the unlocked SKUs cool under load, but my advice there would be to check your BIOS settings to insure that whoever your motherboard manufacturer is didn't ship it with its _Balls to the Wall_ performance settings enabled. 🤔
100%
I'm on 10th gen intel, so I'm free and clear of Intel's current issues. When I can afford it, I'm switching to amd.
My 13600k has been affected as well and I've undervolted it and kept it exceptionally cool since it came out of the box. Great chip before the issues too, very disappointing.
I think this is a defect in the architecture of the 13th and 14th gen cpus. The microcode bios update in my opinion is just a bandage to slow down the cpus from failing . If it was just a micro core issue intel would of released it a long time ago, I mean the 13900k came out almost 2 years ago and their just releasing a patch for ? makes no sense
False it has nothing to do about hardware. It’s the terrible stock bios settings. Were they are pushing 1.5 volts into 2 of their cores. People that naturally tune their CPU’s or undervolt don’t have these issues at all.
The team that made the 12th gen said the ICC was beyond maxed out also ringbus, they left and new team made 13/14 in record time. Not hard to figure out what went wrong lol
@@ZackSNetwork This just isn't true. I've undervolted my CPU by -0.07mV (the most I could get stable). Generally, my voltage never went past 1.53V. It still became unstable after a few months. I also used PL1 = PL2 = 253W, and ICCMax = 307A. Any further undervolting became unstable. The new microcode caps voltages at 1.55V, and mine was always below that.
@@ZackSNetwork no its absolutely the cpu design . the IO is disconnected off the die and is linked to another part that needs more voltage unfortunately that high voltage is killing the IO controller . its a flawed design
@@ZackSNetworkyes i undervolted and set all limits on first day i got my 14900k and never had crashes
Built a new system a while back, Got a 13900KS as it was the best processor at the time. Nothing but problems from day 1, game crashes, instabilities, etc... Dealt with it for a while, eventually it just died, wouldn't boot windows, wouldn't boot Linux off a USB. Took the system to local shop to confirm the dead CPU and yeah that was it. So I bought a 14900K as a replacement. Figured I'd just RMA the 13900KS later. 14900K ran great for 5-6 months and then started having issues as well. Game crashes, instabilities, Eventually it died as well, system would run for a bit and then just power off/reboot.
I RMA'd the 13900KS and got a replacement like 5-6 days after I did the RMA. Gotta give Intel credit on that part I guess.
Still working with support on the 14900KS, just haven't got around to bios hoops they want me to jump through.
Scared to put the 13900KS back in. Kinda waiting to see how things play out with the microcode patch.
Running on my 4790K system in the mean time.
Fucking hell bro that's nuts.. I own an i9 13900kf since october 2023 and never had any issues with it.
New microcode still hitting 1.55v ....1.4v is really pushing the safe spot. 40mv drop is not saving anything but may get them out of warranty in home use servers now will last 3 months not 2
Man that has to be the most sinking feeling when your Intel based PC starts acting squirrely. You should send gamers nexus your CPU, they are collecting them and using a focused ion beam (seriously) to split them open to do a deep dive on the physical issue.
2:38 kitty
I think it would have been cheaper in them in a long run to just go ahead and recall all the chips and fully fix it
voltage are still high on the new updates though, so is it fixing anything?
I think degradation 13/14th is being slowed people will come out of warranty, idle states are being more actively used (framechasers had an interesting take on it). Have watched a few videos on the subject, don't think it's fixed. The degraded chips still should be RMAed and I believe the voltages on the P cores are still too high (my understanding).
Intel can't even replace them as all current CPUs with the LGA1700 chipset seem to be concerned by those issues. I heard they'll make another CPU supporting that chipset but I don't see them sending those instead :D (assuming they work fine)
Rest assured that a CEO will get a massive bonus.
the problem is AMD isn't really competing that well, yeah there's the x3d cpus but their performance is really a smoke screen, if you want cpu horse power and good 1% lows then intel has the best solution. Despite intel being a bit of a shady dealer I can see myself upgrading to their next CPU offering on the basis it shows good benchmarks.
in my opinion, its kind of nice that amd is not rushing to compete with intel. sure they are not giving the best performance but whatever the performance they are giving, is rock solid. so I personally feel that its okk if they just stick their pace and keep improving slowly instead of rushing to get more buyers. cuz intel just did that and its a shitshow. and not just with cpu companies, but games as well. how many studios make sequels just to get more money such as ubisoft. so m kind of hoping that amd would stick to improving slowly rather than rushing. and I think they already learned their lession after there last fck up. but thats just my opinion.
Did the micro code update resolve the issue?
the patch basically converts i9 to i5... so why did we have to pay more?
I bought the 13700k, shall I return it and get the 12700k ?
Wow you seem to be having the same type of issues that I am. I use Adobe Premiere and I have found out that long GOP footage is a big no-no. Anytime I use long GOP and I am editing a complicated 4K timeline. Consistently crashing and causing me anguish
I just had my I-9 replaced by Intel and from what I am seeing in hearing I don't think it's going to fix the issue overall
I’ve had no issues, I’ve been running at 253 watts since day one.
So, is it not recommended buying a 13th-14th gen at the moment?
I would not, I am going with 12th gen.
@@geofftottenperthcoys9944 I've done the same and bought a 12700k.
had my 14900k about a year getting the random spikes to 100C on whatever core for half a second when sitting at the windows desktop doing nothing but core temp running is annoying. To tame these 253-watt cap the power and run a 420 AIO with a push pull 140mm fan x6 and you be a ok temp spikes now only get to 80C which is fine sad a 360 with 6x 120mm fans cant even keep thermals down.
I agree, I think they are trying to buffer customers Sending in their CPUs for RMA. They can't afford and don't have the stock for any of this. They don't have CPUs that will be reliable to give out at this time. But I think it's mostly financial. Intel has been in trouble financially for some time now in my opinion. I have to wonder how much of the issues is from the design level and possibly materials or fab level. The last two I think are much less likely.
Me and my xeon e5 2690v4 sitting quietly in the corner😂😂
I have a 14900K, and I am constantly getting lockups or app/game just closing. I've never OC'd on my own, updated the BIOS to the Asus Z790-E Gaming Wifi with the 0x129 microcode, set to Intel Performance, and still having the same issues. I believe my CPU is damaged, but this wait is driving me insane. Also, there is nothing in the Event Viewer when I experience these issues, which really puzzles me.
I've been in contact with Intel for about 2 weeks, and am waiting for a response with the RMA information. Starting to think I am going to have to turn into the Gorilla jumping on the desk.
You need to manually set setting's in your motherboard bios or you will always have problems with these cpu's. Mine's been running strong without issues for almost a year now, I do not want to say it's a user error issue since these cpu's are not stable plug and play without degradation due to shitty mb vendor default bios, but anyone with basic computer knowledge can have these cpu's 100% stable hitting top benchmark numbers under 1.35v v-core without any stability issue's pretty easily.
@joeysuzyjozy I've tried manually setting to Performane and Extreme wattage and amps, still having the issues. I've reset the BIOS, made sure all drivers are current, tested RAM, video (I have an nVidia 4090), using 1200W Corsair Shift. I am at a loss. I believe my CPU is defective. I didn't have these issues until about a month ago.
@@joeysuzyjozy no its not the motherboard lol . that has been debunked
@@joeysuzyjozy the cpu architecture itself is defective . its IO controller is separate from the die and is connected to another part that requires more voltage . unfortunately the IO controller cannot handle the voltage is eventually fails . no it has never been the mobo venders fault. research will show you are incorrect
@@amdintelxsniperx Everything can be manually set to run smoothly without ever having degradation or issues on the cpu using the mb bios and manually setting everything. Yes, the default cpu microcode is bad and the mb vendor default settings are worse, but that still doesn't change what I previously said above and if you don't know or realize that then I am sorry but you're an amateur.
I have a real aversion towards Intel. they made me angry once (yes that is enough) with their Spectre SW that was only running in US English Windows Systems but threw an error code when trying to run their Program on a PC that was running Windows in German). They corrected it after I opened a support ticket. Since then I never trusted them ever again and they make me still angry.
This now is a real debacle. I am glad I run a AMD Ryzen 7 5800X. I do not care it is slower than a 14900K but it is stable and Rock solid.
Calm down, just think about your cat.
Your 13900k only clocks at 5MHz so something isn't set up correctly. It's still a k CPU so you just have to set it yourself. Do the update and just make sure it doesn't go above 1.4v and you're safe. and take a look in your bios
intel is taking a divide and conquer approach , what they ought to do is to recall all the chips and replace at no cost instead of asking people to RMA and get rejected and hope your RMA eventually get accepted or do a full refund!
Latest bios didn't do diddly squat for me, and that's because the CPU was doomed from the day i bought it AND INTEL KNEW THIS AND STILL SOLD THEM.
They need to be sued, they need to recall these processors and give full refunds to everyone that bought them during a certain time frame and even with this it doesnt help that we now have USELESS z790 motherboards..
I am having the same issues and literally everything in the world right now is weighing me down
I'd happily take a 10 or even 20% reduction in performance if it makes the machine 99.99999% stable, oh hang on, I did, I went with AMD!
Am on 12700KF & 12900KF Alder Lake, I lucked out in not buying Raptor. Spent a lot of time tuning though about a year to be stable. Going AMD next round. I think the microcode will delay degradation but not fix it as is. If it has degraded RMA is the best fix. The voltages seem to be too high (namely the P cores).
So how common are the i7-13700k?
Well spending £4000 on intel build was stupid
@TechLens I don't trust Intel's default settings. I've manually optimized my system using a Gigabyte motherboard profile (optimsed setting). I've applied the following settings: IETU with a -0.050v undervolt, AVX2 offset of 5.0x, Turbo Boost Power Max set to 140W for 128 seconds, all active cores at 53x multiplier. Under load, the voltage never exceeds 1.414v and there's no thermal throttling. I get a sore of 4004 on cinebench R23. No fail in the intel stress test all pass. If i try to set the IA VR Valtage Limit to 1400 by current EDP limit is thermal throttling when idel it the same if i dont set it and use the new SAFE LOL defualt settings. Any ideas? BTW if i you the new mirocode bios update it worse LOL Cry cry...
The problem is that Intel should not be manufacuring in the US. It is just not competitive to produce there.
He's only speaking out no for the views. U had all the time to fix it, buddy
Recently i made PC with intel i7 4700k CPU with msi z790 project zero motherboard my CPU crashed after 2 hours of usage. And no display is there till now. This is the very expensive PC build i made but in return i am very unhappy with intel .... (From INDIA)
Thank God you got SOlution #2 right.. But theywill never do it unless their feet are held to the fire and ... BOYCOT ALL FUTURE PROCESSORS UNLESS THEY CREATE A DEFECT FREE BATCH of 14900Ks to hand out to all with issues and do a full recall!
can i get the watercooling list?
intel shareholders response: hmm you have a good idea lad, but no, we will keep the money :D
I'm glad I'm still building AMD computers!
I always find it funny when people shit on the 9000 chips from AMD. If intel came out with the 13900k at 350w and then the 14900k at 45% less wattage but with the same performance they would yell at the sky about how intel is back baby. AMD does it and people shit on them ....somehow.
You want to make sure this doesnt ever happen again? you follow AMD's lead and lower CPU power consumption while letting the overclockers do what they do best. Come out with a 100% rock solid product and then let OC'ers run with it.
over the last two years with my 13900kf I had progressive performance degradation and blamed it on windows or software, until recently when I started to get frequent game crashes and BSOD. turns out my performance is now equivalent to a ryzen 5700x when and if it even works without crashing. Microcode update madenothing for me except reduce the performance even more
RMA asap and after they approve and give you the option to swap your CPU, demand a refund nicely. Get your money back you deserve it.
@@mehck-gk9yn Second that!
Degradation does not impact performance. It effects how much voltage is required to keep the chip stable. If the chip is slowing down something else is at play.
New beta update seems to hard force voltages down at times, to prevent damage I guess. Software can't fix degraded hardware tho
the i9 is a Enthusiast CPU product and is top tier for programmers , streamers and PC pro,s , when someone buys a i9 , they ussaully know how too build and or configure a PC and optimize it and reflash their bios or manually enter the settings --> in bios too fix the issue with Ai bio,s automatically giving the i9,s too much voltage and a failed overclock which it isnt supposed too do at all , power limits should be set too PL1-125 and PL2 253 and Core voltage while idle 1.0v and core voltage while boosted 1.2v , average gamers ussaully use i5 and i7,s ... you can manually press and hold DELETE or F12 on startup too enter Bios and enter the correct Intel Spec power limits and voltages or update bios too fix the issue causing crashes .. the issue is auto overclock failing and causing crashes ... and actaully Intel has had alot of SCAMMERs sending in i3 12100 and i3 13100 for warrenty with re silk screened too look like i9,s !!!! so they refuse too replacce those ones as their not geniune intel core i9,s .. scammers trying too get free i9,s ... not everyone is doing that but alot have ..
lock the P cores to whatever clock speed 1.3 Volts can deliver. The cpu will run for years to come. Don't wait for scam microcode updates. You have an unlocked chip on a Z mobo. Never rely on auto settings ever.
intels microcode pre 125 didnt really lower multicore speed. Intel's 125 microcode lower multicore performance by around 5%. Intel's 129 (newest as of mid aug.) doesn't lower performance at all but it also seems to THROW MORE VOLTAGE AT THE FUCKING CHIP (Tech Yes City newest video today). by making their chips hotter they are hoping it throttles by heat because voltage becomes more of an issue
Intel doesn’t care , because the DIY market is a very small part of their sales. They even sold way more this year than last. OEM is the real money and the average user has no idea of the problems.
Intel's micop update is designed to delay the degradations, hopefully this will extend its life beyond the Intel warranty. Very Sneaky.
Are those plants real? I'm planning to make my house look like Poison Ivy's
I just built a new rig using the 12900k... i need it for my canon R5 h.265 footage. Needed a new editing rig asap so i got the 12th gen i9 for $290
I have a i7 13700k and since i bought it i noticed it was voltage hungry when turbo was turned on ( Default setting Asus Z690 plus ) Default setting will turn on turbo boost , My cpu runs at 5300 mhz ( @ Turbo default speed )and is pulling 1.45v ( Which I am told is really bad for cpu )so in short I have to leave my turbo turned off since I updated the bios a few days ago . I have downloaded the new bios and I still needed to undervolt my cpu.
Anything above 1.35 and u can make your CPU prayers..
@@Greenalex89 1.35 is still honestly to high for 10nm / technically 14nm +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ its complicated
@@Greenalex89 Any idea why a cpu would call for such core voltage ?
Trying to get a replacement for my 1 year 5 month old i9-13900k and you're right about Intel Customer Support acting like we're doing something wrong or that we should be all computer pros and figure out how to fix their failing products, I've been waiting for a week just to hear back from the person who's supposed to be helping me with my i9-13900k problem and I definitely don't want to call and be on hold for hours at a time with those same results.
the i9 is a Enthusiast CPU product and is top tier for programmers , streamers and PC pro,s , when someone buys a i9 , they ussaully know how too build and or configure a PC and optimize it and reflash their bios or manually enter the settings --> in bios too fix the issue with Ai bio,s automatically giving the i9,s too much voltage and a failed overclock which it isnt supposed too do at all , power limits should be set too PL1-125 and PL2 253 and Core voltage while idle 1.0v and core voltage while boosted 1.2v , average gamers ussaully use i5 and i7,s ... you can manually press and hold DELETE or F12 on startup too enter Bios and enter the correct Intel Spec power limits and voltages or update bios too fix the issue causing crashes .. the issue is auto overclock failing and causing crashes ... and actaully Intel has had alot of SCAMMERs sending in i3 12100 and i3 13100 for warrenty with re silk screened too look like i9,s !!!! so they refuse too replacce those ones as their not geniune intel core i9,s .. scammers trying too get free i9,s ... not everyone is doing that but alot have ..
@@EpicGamingEct you are incorrect stop trying to say its not intels fault . the cpus are defective . period
you have different way's to try to fix this by your hand set all 4 svid vcore voltage settings to the same voltage: my 13700kf run with 5.5 ghz + first two cpu cores + 1 5.6 ghz ring 5.0 ghz i have to set all four svid vcore voltage settings to 1.35 voltage if i set it to 1.34 voltage or deeper i have the same problems as many other guys closing games blue screens this means the cpu need the minimum of the 1.35 on all four settings in the bios to run stable to high undervolting create the same problems as to high overvolting over longtime it looks for me over 80% of the intel 13. and 14. gen cpu user specific on i7 and i9 have no idea how to tune the k versions correct and give intel the fault for what cpu input voltage for 17 and i9 should be around 1.75 and 1.85 voltage .
you are incorrect . i can 100 percent guarantee you will have cpu issues soon
Maybe, just maybe - one should be familiar with the specifications and not push things so far. What I see is many people blaming Intel for what Asus (and others) did as well as their own failure to be reasonable in overclocking.
Thermal throttling is the equivalent of auto breaking in crash avoidance. It's not intended to be used on a regular basis nor as a substitute for good judgement. I suspect had people treated 80°C as the absolute maximum, there would be no controversy.
I don't know your personal story, but the question must be asked "Why is it that we don't hear businesses reporting this? Why is it that it is gamers - most often - tweakers...? Too much correlation to call it coincidence.
There's an old expression "Sailing too close to the wind."
Best wishes in resolving any problems you may be having.
the last microcode is 129 not 125 and the 129 cut even more performance
FYI some of these CPUs aren't covered by Intel's warranty, only the resellers', so if you bought a "Tray" Intel CPU, you're buying AMD next time. On Intel's "help" page for this issue, they link to a 200 page technical manual for some of the settings, surely these people are stewards in hell?
Me with my i3 6100 and rtx 4070 happy that don't have a single problem
Get hardware monitor, check your CPU vid table and voltages and then lock all your cores to idk 55 (5.5ghz) or whatever.
I'm on amd and I think Intel really need to do better better cpus ain't cheap they should be looking after there customers better
So this is happening to me, my game will randomly crush, when I use chrome it will crash or sometime say aw snap try reload this page. This is driving my crazy I just build this pc not a 5month ago with i9 14900k
Intel doesn’t have the same policy when it comes to return bad products or getting a refund. Not on all its markets. There are a lot of third party resellers who sells Intels CPUs or computers. Intel simply cannot say bring your faulty CPU wherever you are in this world. Reviewers are usually mistake the US market with everything else. My reseller told me that he can’t do nothing unless my COU drops under 3.2 ghz that is its core speed guaranteed by Intel. The speed of 6.0 GHz is .. UP TO and it spends on a lot of variables. And no one on my market guarantees variables 😂
I waited 10 years to build another pc only to go with a 13700k. Every time I have played a game it has crashed. The machine just feels unresponsive at times too. Intel can eat one, never buying them again unless used.
chip is bad go back to 12th gen
I think it's a hardware-level issue and not a software level... it definitely fucked inside the billions of transistors or pipelines fuckery.. it's irreversible.
Using the fastest and th hottest chip is never a recipe for longevity. Its not call the bleeding edge for nothing. Glad I went lower power, air cooled, and AMD.
I'm wondering when i5's are going to start crapping out? I've got a 13600k and the last couple months I've started to notice stutters in work related tasks. Stuff that shouldn't have issues like filling out a spreadsheet or questionaire, or when I have two windows open at once on the same screen. Things that should be no problem for that cpu. It's not happening all the time, but it's making me wonder if it's starting to degrade. One thing for sure, is it's going to be my last Intel cpu. I'm already saving up to switch my pc over to AMD
i5's already are dying, just at a lower rate. the 13600K and 14600K have definitely been dying in decent numbers too. 14600K especially. This is actually not new, because intel 11th gen had the same problems, people gave intel grace on that and overlooked it as growing pains finally moving from Skylake refreshes. That was actually a sign that their new architecture was shit. Their next gen cpu/gpu has been shit.
disable 1-2 core boost, lock the P cores to all core boost, have Voltage below 1.3 V
@@JoeL-xk6bo Alder Lake is the best CPU arch that has ever released.
@@epeksergastis It's stupid that we have to do that just to make sure the cpu doesn't die.........right away. It's like having a car that works as long as you stay under 80Km/h. Intel really shit the bed
@@spentcasing3990 completely agree with you. They rushed Raptor in order to compete with Zen 4 and they fucked up.