Great review, guys. This is some of the best mtb content on UA-cam. Hope your channel goes from strength to strength. PS: it’s difficult to find, almost impossible by chance.
Fun video. A bit misleading though. The title says this is about 100mm vs.120mm. All other variables should be identical if suspension travel is the focus. Both should/should NOT have droppers, same handle bars etc. Trail looks fun and you rode both bikes really well. No dropper... respect!
Cheers Mark. Yea, there are tons of varibales at pay. For this one we wanted to pit two stock bikes against one another. ie: as they are sold - and just smash out two laps and let Strava tell the story. It's a common query we have so made a video on it. Cheers bru
My new winterbike is a hardtail with 2,8 inch spiked tyres and 140mm Marzocchi. Is it to much damping for a middleaged careful rider? Too me this big damper gave me extra safety. Its not fast, but its safe. Its been a happy winter and the damper was tuneable to give me nice flow over millions of footsteps in the snow/ice.
The trend towards better downhill performance seems to be pushed by the fact that on the whole, people vastly prefer cycling downhill, probably combined with the increasing prevalence in bike park lifts. I think there's a balance point, obviously -- getting shaken to pieces on a hardtail and needing to take a break takes the fun out of things, but even a small penalty riding uphill on a 140mm bike makes the pain so much worse. I think there's a mentality of either: do you live for those golden 4 minutes, or the whole ride? That is of course just one perspective. You can ride basically anything on any bike, but to ride a trail at speed is a different matter entirely. So a long-travel bike could shoot down an incredibly technical trail almost like it's a flow trail -- it makes it a lot more exciting. Often people criticize the need for full sus / longer travel not realizing how much faster they could be going down that dark blue or black trail. That said, particularly if the types of trails in your area are steep or full of features, a dropper post must make by far the biggest difference. With enough skill, you could pick the best lines and hop over the worst of the rough. A dropper is the difference between catching yourself on the seat whenever you try to shift your weight to balance grip correctly, feeling like you're about to fall over the bars, and having total control. No doubt you'll have more confidence on cushier suspension and fatter tyres, but my theory is that a dropper post (or frankly, a lowered seat) will give you the greatest potential increase in speed. And there's a final point -- that strapping on knee & shoulder pads and full-face helmets will REALLY slow you down, and when you're riding an enduro bike with such express intention of going downhill fast, you're just opening yourself up to more serious injuries if you do crash. It's better to have fun testing the limit at 20kph than 30kph.
Awesome video! It's been a slippery slope since I started on 100mm hardtails, then 120mm front and rear spark, then another spark with 130mm front and 120 rear, and now I'm on a 150 front and 140 rear holding on for dear life since the day I swung my leg over. My big(ger) travel bike is taking me through the Trailseeker marathons and similar races much faster than my other bikes, and I'm having more fun. Would I change back in the name of a few minutes? Nah.
Still trying to decide over a xc n DC. Getting closer to what I want. Leaning to that 120 or 130 front travel.. over a 100mm due to my 215lb weight. This video helped me alot with finding a xc bike. Already got 2 Enduros. Need something for the flats and a change of trails. Thankyou for this informative video video
South African living in Sweden for the past 24 years. Hadidas still giving me ptsd, lol! Great comparison btw. On thr fence at the mo whether to get a lomger travel xc/"down country mtb" Been riding a 100mm Trek Superfly for the last five years. Looking for something thats a little more exciting on the rooty, rocky and wet technical stuff with a more xc geometry. Cheers boet!
Locking forks out on bumpy climbs doesnt really help efficiency. For years, inside the endurance discipline of mountain biking, 100mm travel xc bikes were the go-to accepted norm. Anything longer was considered slower and unnecessary. At the time of filming, 3 years back, there was a lot of speculation around this so the video was a real-world test on the two options to offer insights to viewers
I have a GEN 3 and GEN 4 Santa Cruz Tallboy. My GEN 3 weighs 25 lbs. The Gen 4 weighs 31 lbs. The GEN 3 has 67.5 headtube and the GEN 4 a 65.5. Even though the GEN 3 is more XC like I can ride the GEN 4 significantly faster. On average 2 minutes faster on a 24 minute, 5 mile lap. The best I figure is the slacker bike is just more confidence inspiring at high speeds which allows me to carry more speed into climbs.
Solution: put a dropper post and riser bars on the 100mm bike - I have just done this on my XC bike and shortened the stem by 20mm (and changed from 2x10 to 1x10). My alloy Giant Anthem X weighs 11kg. The carbon bikes you show are heavy for carbon - what a waste of money.
Hi I Want To Ask You My Question Hardtail with fork Is Travel 100mm and the tire with 29er is it high? Or d best I should buy 27.5 but travel 120mm. My height 68.1 inch (173cm)
So the winner is the 100mm bike(s). Why? because, the mechanics of 100mm beat the "throw caution to the wind and send it" posture...and that's only in downhill...of a 120mm bike.
100mm is gonna be faster if you are fit enough to not die on the climbs, being tired on the descents can make or break a race, hence why mega-fit xc racers use 100mm
Hello :) can i have an opinion on my bike XC KTM phinx 291?? 100mm rear and 120mm front shock. I see people dont buy european manufacturers as much (at all) so I'd like to hear some opinions if there is any. Thanks
@@bikenetwork_SA Hi Myles :) I'd like to hear general opinion of the KTM as a bike manufacturer and Phinx 291 model if anyone has ride/bought it. I'd also like to hear recommodations on how big of a jump can this fork travel endure and any other good or bad review on it. Thank you for time, Dom
I wonder if your 120mm climb would have been faster if the order was reversed (fatigue). I suspect “yes” and then the confidence in the downhill leads to a faster bike.
Great review, guys. This is some of the best mtb content on UA-cam. Hope your channel goes from strength to strength. PS: it’s difficult to find, almost impossible by chance.
Cheers for the kind words Nic. All the best.
Try putting dropper post in 100mm travel bike. 😁 It will change the result I guess.
100%.
Harry Tanoja, why exactly
Shopping for a Titan and this is exactly the comparison I was looking for.
Finally found a good comparison review,
Fun video. A bit misleading though. The title says this is about 100mm vs.120mm. All other variables should be identical if suspension travel is the focus. Both should/should NOT have droppers, same handle bars etc. Trail looks fun and you rode both bikes really well. No dropper... respect!
Cheers Mark. Yea, there are tons of varibales at pay. For this one we wanted to pit two stock bikes against one another. ie: as they are sold - and just smash out two laps and let Strava tell the story. It's a common query we have so made a video on it. Cheers bru
My new winterbike is a hardtail with 2,8 inch spiked tyres and 140mm Marzocchi. Is it to much damping for a middleaged careful rider? Too me this big damper gave me extra safety. Its not fast, but its safe. Its been a happy winter and the damper was tuneable to give me nice flow over millions of footsteps in the snow/ice.
Nice work mate, you sure can ride, I was impressed, also the evaluation was what I thought might be the case.
The trend towards better downhill performance seems to be pushed by the fact that on the whole, people vastly prefer cycling downhill, probably combined with the increasing prevalence in bike park lifts. I think there's a balance point, obviously -- getting shaken to pieces on a hardtail and needing to take a break takes the fun out of things, but even a small penalty riding uphill on a 140mm bike makes the pain so much worse. I think there's a mentality of either: do you live for those golden 4 minutes, or the whole ride? That is of course just one perspective.
You can ride basically anything on any bike, but to ride a trail at speed is a different matter entirely. So a long-travel bike could shoot down an incredibly technical trail almost like it's a flow trail -- it makes it a lot more exciting. Often people criticize the need for full sus / longer travel not realizing how much faster they could be going down that dark blue or black trail. That said, particularly if the types of trails in your area are steep or full of features, a dropper post must make by far the biggest difference. With enough skill, you could pick the best lines and hop over the worst of the rough. A dropper is the difference between catching yourself on the seat whenever you try to shift your weight to balance grip correctly, feeling like you're about to fall over the bars, and having total control.
No doubt you'll have more confidence on cushier suspension and fatter tyres, but my theory is that a dropper post (or frankly, a lowered seat) will give you the greatest potential increase in speed. And there's a final point -- that strapping on knee & shoulder pads and full-face helmets will REALLY slow you down, and when you're riding an enduro bike with such express intention of going downhill fast, you're just opening yourself up to more serious injuries if you do crash. It's better to have fun testing the limit at 20kph than 30kph.
Awesome video! It's been a slippery slope since I started on 100mm hardtails, then 120mm front and rear spark, then another spark with 130mm front and 120 rear, and now I'm on a 150 front and 140 rear holding on for dear life since the day I swung my leg over.
My big(ger) travel bike is taking me through the Trailseeker marathons and similar races much faster than my other bikes, and I'm having more fun. Would I change back in the name of a few minutes? Nah.
Hey Ruan, - that's interesting. Keep shredding mate.
This is a great video! First time here, instantly subscribed. From the first few minutes I knew I'm gonna like this. Even 4k here, nice.
Cool video. Though definitely would have been better if they both had the exact same tyres and both had dropper posts, same bar setups etc etc
Yea. The idea was to do the comparison on 100% stock bikes - ie: as they are sold. But yea, tyres and droppers have a HUGE impact.
Still trying to decide over a xc n DC. Getting closer to what I want. Leaning to that 120 or 130 front travel.. over a 100mm due to my 215lb weight. This video helped me alot with finding a xc bike. Already got 2 Enduros. Need something for the flats and a change of trails. Thankyou for this informative video video
South African living in Sweden for the past 24 years. Hadidas still giving me ptsd, lol! Great comparison btw. On thr fence at the mo whether to get a lomger travel xc/"down country mtb" Been riding a 100mm Trek Superfly for the last five years. Looking for something thats a little more exciting on the rooty, rocky and wet technical stuff with a more xc geometry. Cheers boet!
thanks for bustin it for us, i am looking at the intense, similar.
very helpful review
what is at 100mm? is it the BB, the suspension? something else? i'm lookin for a 120mm BB bike to slap my BBSHD on.
am a newbie ... what is the 100 mm vs. 120 mm ... fork travel? if so why not just lock it on the climb? video totally lost on me 😟
Locking forks out on bumpy climbs doesnt really help efficiency.
For years, inside the endurance discipline of mountain biking, 100mm travel xc bikes were the go-to accepted norm. Anything longer was considered slower and unnecessary. At the time of filming, 3 years back, there was a lot of speculation around this so the video was a real-world test on the two options to offer insights to viewers
Wish I could do the Orbea Oiz
100mm vs 120 tr Version both the same frames would be a great way to compare
Great review 👏👏👏
I have a GEN 3 and GEN 4 Santa Cruz Tallboy. My GEN 3 weighs 25 lbs. The Gen 4 weighs 31 lbs. The GEN 3 has 67.5 headtube and the GEN 4 a 65.5. Even though the GEN 3 is more XC like I can ride the GEN 4 significantly faster. On average 2 minutes faster on a 24 minute, 5 mile lap. The best I figure is the slacker bike is just more confidence inspiring at high speeds which allows me to carry more speed into climbs.
For uphill city travel wirh some rough pavement should i go with 100mm or 120mm?
100
Solution: put a dropper post and riser bars on the 100mm bike - I have just done this on my XC bike and shortened the stem by 20mm (and changed from 2x10 to 1x10). My alloy Giant Anthem X weighs 11kg. The carbon bikes you show are heavy for carbon - what a waste of money.
Would like to see test with same tires.
Hi I Want To Ask You My Question Hardtail with fork Is Travel 100mm and the tire with 29er is it high? Or d best I should buy 27.5 but travel 120mm. My height 68.1 inch (173cm)
29er with a short seat tube and long dropper is probably the win for you
Why couldn't you just swap in a dropper on the RS? AxS 100mm would make descending so much better than that straight post.
The idea was to test the bikes in the exact spec they are sold in
Wow so many things were different not just the suspension.
Hi. I'm running a 120mm travel fork for XC & light trails. Is that more than enough or should I buy a 100 for backup too?
I have one question what if you 120mm fork bike is the same weight is that going to be faster ?
Probably yes
Technical climbing section would change a lot.
can i put 160mm fork on my xc scott scale 770? i dont have enough money to buy enduro bike
It's possible but really NOT advisable.
BIKE NETWORK thanks for the advice 😄 can you recommend me a good 120mm fork?
this is a hard tail to gravel bike up hill. It would be nice to see a thicker corse.
So the winner is the 100mm bike(s). Why? because, the mechanics of 100mm beat the "throw caution to the wind and send it" posture...and that's only in downhill...of a 120mm bike.
100mm is gonna be faster if you are fit enough to not die on the climbs, being tired on the descents can make or break a race, hence why mega-fit xc racers use 100mm
Hello :) can i have an opinion on my bike XC KTM phinx 291?? 100mm rear and 120mm front shock. I see people dont buy european manufacturers as much (at all) so I'd like to hear some opinions if there is any. Thanks
Howzit, - I haven't ridden that bike. What specifically about that bike are you wanting to know? - Cheers, Myles
@@bikenetwork_SA Hi Myles :) I'd like to hear general opinion of the KTM as a bike manufacturer and Phinx 291 model if anyone has ride/bought it. I'd also like to hear recommodations on how big of a jump can this fork travel endure and any other good or bad review on it.
Thank you for time, Dom
Seems the obvious solution is 100-140 adjustable travel forks.
Is it just me or was the 120mm fork quicker in the turns??
Yes, the 120 bike is more stable in the turns but that's largely due to the geometry and dropper post than merely the extra 20mm of travel. - Myles
I wonder if your 120mm climb would have been faster if the order was reversed (fatigue). I suspect “yes” and then the confidence in the downhill leads to a faster bike.
Perhaps yes.
Just put a 2.35 front tire and a dropper post on the 100mm for the best of both worlds
have a 2021 Orbea Oiz M10 with exactly that setup arriving this week 👍
Im sorry 120 mm of what? Stem length? Clearance? Shock absorber?
justw4lkbesideme fork travel.
Is that a Reba on the 120?
Nino schurter already proven it... Lol
120 mm all way!
They are fun aye. A lot of fun.
Good biak
I think if he road the 120mil first it would have won. But a 120 is a very capable alround
100mm better for climbing
120mm more descent capable
Full rigid and more training is fastest!
Not on these trails. No chance. Maybe that would make an interesting comparison though...
unfair test